Gravity is the weakest fundamental force, yes. At least, at relatively close distances. The advantage gravity has is that it never quite goes away, no matter how far you are.
I mean yeah but also you reverse that square enough and it’s effectively zero
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
on 10 Apr 19:57
collapse
But never actually zero, unlike those other quitter “forces”
captainjaneway@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 20:36
collapse
Is that actually true? I’m not an expert but I thought all forces extend our into infinity. I thought we just allowed them to go to 0 at a certain radius for the sake of making the math manageable.
Not the person you replied to, and not really an expert either, but I can tell you that the W and Z bosons (force carriers for the weak force) are very short lived and can only travel through space so far before they decay. This effectively puts a cap on the distance of weak interactions.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 10 Apr 21:45
collapse
Strong force is the same.
I don’t know if it’s shorter than the weak force, but you gotta be in an atom’s nucleus to experience it
Edit: i just realized I may have confused people - strong force has a limited distance, not that it’s because they decay.
Edit 2: If i ever got a PhD or master’s even in Physics, id probably write a book on how “The Universe Demands Laziness.” Because pretty much everything in physics ends up with a system taking shortcuts to save a little bit of energy.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 10 Apr 22:23
collapse
Except the energy required to increase the distance between the particles is enough that it ends up creating more particles and the distance never gets any more distancier?
So this is where my inexperience kicks in, but I don’t understand how the strong force can function in the same way considering that gluons are massless.
The W and Z bosons having mass prevents them from being able to travel at the speed of light, and therefore they experience time and can only travel some limited distance before decaying into fermions.
But since gluons do not have mass, they, like photons, do not experience time – and so how could they have a half life?
In my mental model of the strong force I assumed that they simply were created and destroyed in an exchange between quarks – much like how photons get absorbed/emitted by electrons. But this alone does not cause a limit on the distance of strong interactions, so I assumed that mechanically any limit on the strong force’s distance must function differently.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 11 Apr 00:29
collapse
Gluons do not have a half life?
Remember that they DO make an exchange - Gluons have color charge - red, green and blue. QCD is the magical realm of color charge.
The hardest part for quantum anything is grasping the “probability aspect” means spontaneous things can happen. In the case of QCD, as you put energy into separating quarks it becomes infinitely more likely to pull particles out of the vacuum than to separate them.
QCD is involved in fusion in a similar way - two protons will oppose each other with infinitely more force the closer they get because their charges are repulsive. The faster two protons are flung at eachother, the probability of the quarks binding increases.
andros_rex@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 04:52
nextcollapse
If i ever got a PhD or master’s even in Physics, id probably write a book on how “The Universe Demands Laziness.” Because pretty much everything in physics ends up with a system taking shortcuts to save a little bit of energy.
This is how I teach both physics and chemistry. Electrons are lazy - they’re going to chill in the lowest energy level they can. They fill in sub shells like people getting on a bus - you aren’t going to sit next to someone else unless you have to, you’re going to sit probably as close to the front (nucleus) as you can.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 10 Apr 21:48
nextcollapse
Can you imagine being those antelope being hunted by early human ancestors -
“Ok, bob, we just bolted at 40mph for a minute or so, they’re not going to find us again.”
“Clarice, you said that the last 8 times and they still showed up! They’re unnatural! They just keep following and following us! Alex smashed his shin that last run, and I don’t know how many more times I can run myself! We’re doomed Clarice! Doomed!”
It’s basically a zombie movie, but the main character is Bambi.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 05:03
collapse
They cannot be bargained with. They cannot be reasoned with. They don’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until you are dead.
Exactly. Raise your hand. Great, you overcame gravity for a second. Keep your hand raised for a minute. 10 minutes. An hour. Fuck, gravity doesn’t stop. It’s exactly like us.
einlander@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 20:18
nextcollapse
Sounds like a stalker.
OrganicMustard@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 22:15
nextcollapse
Electromagnetic doesn’t go away either. It’s that damn negavite charge neutralizing the stuff.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 22:28
nextcollapse
Aren’t all forces subject to the inverse square law?
qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website
on 11 Apr 00:47
collapse
Dipoles are, effectively, not — so if you have a charged bit and another opposite charged bit, while an inverse relationship might exist between either one, the net effect is that it drops off much faster.
The thing with gravity is it tends to go one way, unlike, say, charge.
InappropriateEmote@hexbear.net
on 10 Apr 23:07
collapse
The advantage gravity has is that it never quite goes away, no matter how far you are.
That’s true of all the fundamental forces, though. They all drop off over distance with inverse square laws. Like if you had two lone electrons in an otherwise empty universe, their electromagnetic repulsion would also persist indefinitely at 1/r^2 strength, just like gravity. The difference is that our universe has near-perfect charge neutrality at large scales.
spicystraw@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 19:51
nextcollapse
Gravity’s so powerful, it’s letting you win this round just to remind you who’s really in charge when you drop your phone
If you’re hot enough and place a mirror below you blackbody radiation should do a pretty good job at preventing that. If you’re not that hot you might need extra patience and without the mirror it might not be too effective.
Now that I think about it this might be considered as parts of oneself leaving earth though.
Silic0n_Alph4@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 07:13
collapse
ThePyroPython@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 21:47
nextcollapse
This unlocked a song that has been buried in my mind for YEARS:
Now some of you may think that gravity is strong
Cuz when you fall
Off your bicycle
It don’t take long
Until you hit the earth
And you say, “Dang that hurt!”
But if you think the force
Is powerful
You’re wrong
You see, gravity
It’s weaker than weak!
And the reason why
Is something many
Scientists seek
They think about dimensions
We live in just three
But maybe there are others
That are too small to see
It’s into these dimensions that gravity extends
Which makes it seem weaker here on our end
And these dimensions are rolled up, curled so tight
That they don’t affect you in your day-to-day life
But if you were as tiny as a graviton
You could enter these dimensions and go wandering on
And they’d find you…
Yes, it’s the obvious extension from what we have now, and quite coherent for explaining some universe that isn’t the one we live in.
It just shouldn’t have monopolized theoretical physics for a generation. It’s really hard to imagine something different, but this is even more reason to celebrate the people trying that, not to shun then and focus on what you already have.
“Gravity is weaker than weak” is such a strong line.
spacecadet@hexbear.net
on 10 Apr 21:50
nextcollapse
Honest noob science question: is gravity as
defined with Einstein’s space-time time definition mean it ceases to be an actual “force” …? Like, two masses affecting each other through gravity is not like two magnets but rather space-time “bending”?
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 21:57
nextcollapse
As a kid I used to dream that I could levitate by sort of straining my muscles upward and lifting myself away from the ground. It would be pretty cool to do that IRL.
I used to contemplate jumping in the air, then quickly using my foot to spring upward off of my other leg/foot, and repeating that until I’ve reached a desired elevation.
Yeah but ain’t no motherfucker gonna soon be jumping over onto the moon with pure human leg power. Still gotta detonate a slowly exploding bomb under our asses to leave this rock-covered ball bearing.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 22:20
nextcollapse
Nope. Gravity goes both ways. Actually it’s the curve of space time pushing you toward another mass. And you can only overcome because your mass is puny next to the earth.
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world
on 10 Apr 22:24
nextcollapse
“Skiing is not hard, it’s mostly gravity.” - the alien on Resident Alien
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works
on 10 Apr 22:35
nextcollapse
Say that to gravity when you start even 5m above the ground.
The thing is, you need an entire planet to make falling hurt, and jumping is still easy. Meanwhile, if you have two tiny magnets they can pull on each other so strongly that you can never get them apart again.
India is in it’s own timeline.
ex.
Indian breatharian monk who claimed to have lived without food and water since 1940. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prahlad_Jani
Look at his arm. Unless all the videos of that guy are fake (even during a time where making a convincing video fakes was really hard). That arm is not going down even if he wanted.
But that will never happen, because electromagnetic forces haven’t learned the power of friendship and co-operation. Gravity always works together, but the other fickle fundamental forces just can’t decide if they are pushing or pulling or whatever.
stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 11 Apr 06:45
nextcollapse
yeah you’d need a black hole where every atom is positively charged and one where every atom is negatively charged
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world
on 11 Apr 08:01
collapse
In a system where gravity is pulling on your hand, which is stronger, the force of the earth pulling in your hand, or the force of your hand pulling on the Earth?
Answer: it’s a trick question. In such a system, both sides feel the force equally
KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 12 Apr 03:12
collapse
if we’re talking gravity physics, the earth, by basically every possible kilogram of mass imaginable to the human mind. But this goes without saying, because you stick to the earth, the earth doesn’t stick to you, so.
Of course technically, the force is applied to both objects, but considering the scale mismatch, one of these things is not like the other.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world
on 13 Apr 00:15
collapse
No you’re both drawn to the local center of gravity which is on a direct line between both bodies’ centers of mass and is proportionally closer to the object of higher mass.
That’s not really relevant in collided objects per se, but it means you and the earth both pull each other equally to a point that happens to be located ever so slightly away from the center of the earth. Well you would if there weren’t a ton of other gravitational influences including the non uniform shape and density of the earth that make you basically rounding error in terms of gravitational force. But you do impact it
threaded - newest
And still it is powerful enough to completely close off parts of the universe from the rest. Truly fascinating.
Gravity is the weakest fundamental force, yes. At least, at relatively close distances. The advantage gravity has is that it never quite goes away, no matter how far you are.
I mean yeah but also you reverse that square enough and it’s effectively zero
But never actually zero, unlike those other quitter “forces”
Is that actually true? I’m not an expert but I thought all forces extend our into infinity. I thought we just allowed them to go to 0 at a certain radius for the sake of making the math manageable.
Not the person you replied to, and not really an expert either, but I can tell you that the W and Z bosons (force carriers for the weak force) are very short lived and can only travel through space so far before they decay. This effectively puts a cap on the distance of weak interactions.
Strong force is the same.
I don’t know if it’s shorter than the weak force, but you gotta be in an atom’s nucleus to experience it
Edit: i just realized I may have confused people - strong force has a limited distance, not that it’s because they decay.
Edit 2: If i ever got a PhD or master’s even in Physics, id probably write a book on how “The Universe Demands Laziness.” Because pretty much everything in physics ends up with a system taking shortcuts to save a little bit of energy.
The strong force also gets stronger with distance
Except the energy required to increase the distance between the particles is enough that it ends up creating more particles and the distance never gets any more distancier?
That’s what she said.
So this is where my inexperience kicks in, but I don’t understand how the strong force can function in the same way considering that gluons are massless.
The W and Z bosons having mass prevents them from being able to travel at the speed of light, and therefore they experience time and can only travel some limited distance before decaying into fermions.
But since gluons do not have mass, they, like photons, do not experience time – and so how could they have a half life?
In my mental model of the strong force I assumed that they simply were created and destroyed in an exchange between quarks – much like how photons get absorbed/emitted by electrons. But this alone does not cause a limit on the distance of strong interactions, so I assumed that mechanically any limit on the strong force’s distance must function differently.
Gluons do not have a half life?
Remember that they DO make an exchange - Gluons have color charge - red, green and blue. QCD is the magical realm of color charge.
The hardest part for quantum anything is grasping the “probability aspect” means spontaneous things can happen. In the case of QCD, as you put energy into separating quarks it becomes infinitely more likely to pull particles out of the vacuum than to separate them.
QCD is involved in fusion in a similar way - two protons will oppose each other with infinitely more force the closer they get because their charges are repulsive. The faster two protons are flung at eachother, the probability of the quarks binding increases.
This is how I teach both physics and chemistry. Electrons are lazy - they’re going to chill in the lowest energy level they can. They fill in sub shells like people getting on a bus - you aren’t going to sit next to someone else unless you have to, you’re going to sit probably as close to the front (nucleus) as you can.
TIL the Univers was written in Haskell
Ostensibly sure but really it’s all hacked together perl
Nah, at some point the simulation we live in is going to round down to save computing power.
Is that simulation in the room with us ri
us right now? Hurrr durr
Are you the mirror universe version of DarkViperAU?
So it’s like humans? 🤔
We aren’t particularly strong or fast, but we became apex predators because we never. Stop. Coming.
Also, we, never, stop, cumming.
So much to cum, so much to cum,
So what’s wrong with cumming the backstreet
You’ll never know if you don’t cum
cum cum, cumcumcum cum, get ur cumcum CUM----CUM
AND ALL THAT’S CUMMING IS CUMMMM
only shooting cummmm breaks the mOwOld
(Smash mouth were so ahead of the curve, they had OwO in their lyrics in 1999)
You’ll never cum if you don’t blow
about to make ourselves go away though.
Whoops
Whoopsee
<img alt="" src="https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-08-2019/McZ5Cq.gif">
Can you imagine being those antelope being hunted by early human ancestors -
“Ok, bob, we just bolted at 40mph for a minute or so, they’re not going to find us again.”
“Clarice, you said that the last 8 times and they still showed up! They’re unnatural! They just keep following and following us! Alex smashed his shin that last run, and I don’t know how many more times I can run myself! We’re doomed Clarice! Doomed!”
It’s basically a zombie movie, but the main character is Bambi.
They cannot be bargained with. They cannot be reasoned with. They don’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until you are dead.
Exactly. Raise your hand. Great, you overcame gravity for a second. Keep your hand raised for a minute. 10 minutes. An hour. Fuck, gravity doesn’t stop. It’s exactly like us.
Sounds like a stalker.
Electromagnetic doesn’t go away either. It’s that damn negavite charge neutralizing the stuff.
Aren’t all forces subject to the inverse square law?
Dipoles are, effectively, not — so if you have a charged bit and another opposite charged bit, while an inverse relationship might exist between either one, the net effect is that it drops off much faster.
The thing with gravity is it tends to go one way, unlike, say, charge.
That’s true of all the fundamental forces, though. They all drop off over distance with inverse square laws. Like if you had two lone electrons in an otherwise empty universe, their electromagnetic repulsion would also persist indefinitely at 1/r^2 strength, just like gravity. The difference is that our universe has near-perfect charge neutrality at large scales.
Gravity’s so powerful, it’s letting you win this round just to remind you who’s really in charge when you drop your phone
And now jump in the air and escape the gravitational pull.
12 kilometers straight up.
Gravity not so weak now, huh?
It’s still weak, just like humans are still slow.
At least compared to other animals.
But like gravity, we just keep going. And going. And going.
And when the animals we hunted collapsed from exhaustion, we just kept coming. And then took it all the way back we came.
Just like gravity.
We can try to keep going until we just can’t anymore, but gravity will just grab us and haul us back.
Compared to the other forces, gravity is a weak ass bitch.
.
Also not so weak if you find yourself at a height in the air.
Supermassive Blackholes: “Gravity is weak, huh?”
I just overcame the gravitational pull of the entire planet with my dick.
username checks out
If your dick overcomes the gravitational pull of the entire planet for more than four hours, seek medical attention
Referring to your girlfriend that way is not very nice.
Your dick also overcame the gravitational pull of all other dicks.
I read this in the voice of Charlie from It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia
You didn’t overcome it, you spend some energy that the earth will eventually get back.
Unless you leave earth, gravity will eventually win.
The house always wins.
Can’t even win then. Gravity isn’t just on earth. It’s a universal force.
They are launching objects to space accidentally, doing it intentionally cant be that hard
Nobody trips, falls, and detonates a nuke.
And you wouldn’t download a nuke.
Clearly the tripwires in your basement aren’t hooked up to traps nearly as fun as they could be.
People try to hide obvious mistakes they make. Nobody is going to go on a stage and scream “I ACCIDENTALLY DETONATED A NUKE”
If you’re hot enough and place a mirror below you blackbody radiation should do a pretty good job at preventing that. If you’re not that hot you might need extra patience and without the mirror it might not be too effective.
Now that I think about it this might be considered as parts of oneself leaving earth though.
I know just the man for the job…
Then gravity reminds you who’s boss the next time you trip over your own feet
Lifts cup of tea
PHEW I’m done for the day.
Lucky you. I struggle to fight gravity getting out of bed.
Same same, but I want my cuppa so…
Gravity is the only fundamental force that can bend time tho
Isn’t it the other way around? Mass bends spacetime and gravity is the result?
Magnetic force is hilariously weak. Go ahead and raise your hand. You literally just over came the magnetic pull of the ENTIRE EARTH.
Bro is made of iron
I’m built different 🦾
turned to steel in a great magnetic field
I think this is a reprehensible attitude towards gravy.
“Make gravy your bitch”; didn’t you ever enjoy a lovely meal with the savory sauce of gravy over biscuits or perhaps a meat of your choice?
Terribly disrespectful!
Not gravy. Op was talkng about gravy tea.
Gravy tea, so bovril?
Did he just tough-talk the curvature of space-time?
.
This unlocked a song that has been buried in my mind for YEARS:
Now some of you may think that gravity is strong Cuz when you fall Off your bicycle It don’t take long Until you hit the earth And you say, “Dang that hurt!”
But if you think the force Is powerful You’re wrong
You see, gravity It’s weaker than weak!
And the reason why Is something many Scientists seek
They think about dimensions We live in just three But maybe there are others That are too small to see
It’s into these dimensions that gravity extends Which makes it seem weaker here on our end
And these dimensions are rolled up, curled so tight That they don’t affect you in your day-to-day life
But if you were as tiny as a graviton You could enter these dimensions and go wandering on And they’d find you…
LHCb sees where the antimatter’s gone, ALICE looks at collisions of lead ions
Oh, a song from the time superstrings were still cool?
A brave little theory, and actually quite coherent for a system of five or seven dimensions — if only we lived in one.
Yes, it’s the obvious extension from what we have now, and quite coherent for explaining some universe that isn’t the one we live in.
It just shouldn’t have monopolized theoretical physics for a generation. It’s really hard to imagine something different, but this is even more reason to celebrate the people trying that, not to shun then and focus on what you already have.
Wasn’t this in Particle Fever? That doc is incredible.
“Gravity is weaker than weak” is such a strong line.
Honest noob science question: is gravity as defined with Einstein’s space-time time definition mean it ceases to be an actual “force” …? Like, two masses affecting each other through gravity is not like two magnets but rather space-time “bending”?
it’s still a force, produced by a field (in this case curvature), although alternative opinions are available: (linky to pbs spacetime)
Pathetic. I can easily overcome the gravitational pull of all the milky way just with my pinkie.
what does gravity even bench?
As a kid I used to dream that I could levitate by sort of straining my muscles upward and lifting myself away from the ground. It would be pretty cool to do that IRL.
Funny, I had a similar series of dreams as a kid like that. I just sort of learned to ‘walk upwards’ and levitate.
omg that was you? We could have played quidditch!
Years before the books were written! I am an old :(
But still, I’m sure it’s like riding a bicycle and I have these water balloons…
Mine was that if I curled up into a ball I would float like a helium balloon lol.
I used to contemplate jumping in the air, then quickly using my foot to spring upward off of my other leg/foot, and repeating that until I’ve reached a desired elevation.
Yeah but ain’t no motherfucker gonna soon be jumping over onto the moon with pure human leg power. Still gotta detonate a slowly exploding bomb under our asses to leave this rock-covered ball bearing.
Nope. Gravity goes both ways. Actually it’s the curve of space time pushing you toward another mass. And you can only overcome because your mass is puny next to the earth.
“Skiing is not hard, it’s mostly gravity.” - the alien on Resident Alien
Say that to gravity when you start even 5m above the ground.
Gravity ain’t shit. It’s not the falling that kills you, it’s the impact at the bottom. Which are electromagnetic forces.
Well the electromagnetic forces in your bones are no match for the accumulated energy of a few seconds of gravity.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3df5d940-76f8-4edd-8b70-2772cff2b1cd.jpeg">
Are you enjoying your Kep-mok blood ticks, Dr. Lazarus?
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2c944979-affd-4c5d-875a-4aa8b8b637a9.jpeg">
The thing is, you need an entire planet to make falling hurt, and jumping is still easy. Meanwhile, if you have two tiny magnets they can pull on each other so strongly that you can never get them apart again.
Not to “Ermmm acshually” but you haven’t overcome the gravitational pull you’ve just counteracted it.
Overcoming it is significantlly more difficult.
The swirly line forms to the left.
“Not to um actually, but actually” should be the new um actually
Now keep this hand raised for an hour. Who’s the bitch now ?
If it takes your an hour to wear me down, you’re weak. No matter how inexhaustible your power is.
Oh don’t worry, it will be way less than an hour :P
Lower strength, but far more endurance.
Does gravity do work or is it just reactive? If it doesn’t do work, doesn’t it match endurance exactly to you?
How about 10 minutes ? World record is 9.
exactlyhowlong.com/how-long-can-a-person-hold-the…
Rookie numbers: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amar_Bharati
India is in it’s own timeline.
ex. Indian breatharian monk who claimed to have lived without food and water since 1940.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prahlad_Jani
But there is a difference between making a claim about not drinking water and literally holding your hand up in a way you can’t fake.
Yeah he was obviously sleeping for 50 years and holding his hand up. I can believe that.
Look at his arm. Unless all the videos of that guy are fake (even during a time where making a convincing video fakes was really hard). That arm is not going down even if he wanted.
So it’s not pointing up when he lays down.
Unintentionally hilarious link
Overcome? The hand is clearly still under the effect of gravity as it is not flowing into the space. It just decelerates a tiny bit.
Oh, should be no problem for you to leave earth then
The face of the earth when I lift a finger: :o
True, however… as you press into this planet, this planet presses into you.
Weak you say?.. See those merging black holes? Proceeds to casually dissapear 3 solar masses in less than a second… Yeah.
Which is still just a small fraction of the total mass of the black holes
If it were the electromagnetic force that pulled them together it would be so much more violent and send out deadly gamma rays
But that will never happen, because electromagnetic forces haven’t learned the power of friendship and co-operation. Gravity always works together, but the other fickle fundamental forces just can’t decide if they are pushing or pulling or whatever.
yeah you’d need a black hole where every atom is positively charged and one where every atom is negatively charged
and whose fault is that? i’m look at you, horses
Yeah, go ahead, how long can you keep it up? The earth can wait longer than you.
Just lost faith in my muscles
There goes all our bragging about humanity’s physical superpower being endurance.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmynsfw.com/pictrs/image/a5683b77-0f17-4ca2-8b1b-7f26f2afc29b.png"> Challenge accepted
I thought the parliamentarian struck down the law of gravity
.
Back issues are Gravity’s revenge.
thats just because the gravitational pull of your hand is weak shit.
Get more mass, massless nerd.
In a system where gravity is pulling on your hand, which is stronger, the force of the earth pulling in your hand, or the force of your hand pulling on the Earth?
Answer: it’s a trick question. In such a system, both sides feel the force equally
if we’re talking gravity physics, the earth, by basically every possible kilogram of mass imaginable to the human mind. But this goes without saying, because you stick to the earth, the earth doesn’t stick to you, so.
Of course technically, the force is applied to both objects, but considering the scale mismatch, one of these things is not like the other.
No you’re both drawn to the local center of gravity which is on a direct line between both bodies’ centers of mass and is proportionally closer to the object of higher mass.
That’s not really relevant in collided objects per se, but it means you and the earth both pull each other equally to a point that happens to be located ever so slightly away from the center of the earth. Well you would if there weren’t a ton of other gravitational influences including the non uniform shape and density of the earth that make you basically rounding error in terms of gravitational force. But you do impact it
Yeah keep it up for 10 mins and we talking again.