Or we could do metric time
(files.catbox.moe)
from Gork@lemm.ee to science_memes@mander.xyz on 18 Apr 2024 03:52
https://lemm.ee/post/29730966
from Gork@lemm.ee to science_memes@mander.xyz on 18 Apr 2024 03:52
https://lemm.ee/post/29730966
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I like it.
But mostly because of all the furor it’ll cause.
International Fixed Calendar? I seem to remember hearing a proposal for the 13th month being called Sol which is kinda cool.
The 13th month should be called eleven, because it’d come after December (10), our 12th month.
I like the cut of your jib
i like the cut of his hair.
I like his cuts of meat
The 13^th^ month should be called Smarch!
I think December comes from Classical Greek number 10 deka. 11 is enteka. So the next month could be Entecember.
You left out one day 28x13 is 364 The alignment to the weekdays is only right every seventh year. Every sixth of you account for leap years.
That day would be new year’s day, not an ordinary day. So those weeks would be
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of developers suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.
Universal holidays between the years was good enough for the Mayans and it’s good enough for me!
The international fixed calendar is basically what’s described here. But it adds one day to bring it to 365, that day is called year day, and its an extra day, not a day of the week just a bonus day. Leap years get a second extra day 6 months later.
You know what… The more I hear about this calendar the more I like it.
A celebration day that doesn’t count… That’s neat.
A day where you dont work, everything is closed, and you recover from the new years hangover.
Don’t forget about Gormanuary
In preparation for the upcoming Bell Riots, WWIII, Eugenics Wars, First Contact, Battle of Wolf 359, and Dominion Wars, I say we stop beating around the bush and adopt the Bajoran 26 hour day.
politico.eu/…/norway-arctic-region-asks-eu-commis…
A lunar day is 27.3 days and a solar cycle is 29 and change. So we’d be just off the lunar cycles. Like when you’re sitting waiting for a turn lane signal to change and the person in front of you has a blinker that’s just a tiny bit slower than yours.
Yeah sadly the rotations of Earth around its axis, the moon around Earth, and Earth around the sun don’t divide each other nicely
Why would god do this
Eventually, things settle at almost perfect ratios. Everything between creates some kind of friction.
Relevant Steve Mould
The Lord works in DSTsterious ways
So what I’m getting from this is that we need to push the Moon a bit further from the Earth, and pull the Earth a bit closer to the Sun.
Software developers hearing we’re changing the calendar 💀
We should all just switch to Unix time.
That’ll be great for 14 years
Linux has been switching that to 64 bit, applications just need to catch up and use the new call. They’ve got almost a decade and a half, so I’d hope they’ll all be updated, but you know there’ll be something subtle and critical that only gets done at the last second.
We could inadvertently make 12/31/1969 and 1/1/1970 the most dangerous destination for time travelers, sounds fun to me.
We should divide the year into four suits — one for each season. Each suit is thirteen weeks long, numbered ace to king. Sometimes we have a Joker day.
Ah yes, the Balatro calendar. I play a King of Diamonds, which triples the number of days in June and removes October.
Quarters would be weird for businesses so it would never catch on.
We could all unionize and just take the first month off, set it in the deepest part of winter, January or so, and just set Christmas to be during that month. Although people might not be thrilled to move Christmas to after New Year’s.
Christmas is already after New Year’s in the current calendar year ;)
It’s not really that hard to have a quarter be 3 months + 1 week tbh.
I bow to your lobes in all business matters.
perennial calendars – specifically leap week calendars (already implemented in the ISO week date calendar) – keeps all the advantages of 28 day months, and the leap week (instead of a leap day) allows for everything to stay lined up and doesn’t interrupt the 7-day week cycle
I fully support this if it means I can take that extra 13th month off to relax
As a software dev who has lost weeks of his life dealing with timezones, leap days, daylight savings time, date math and other associated nonsense I fully support this being the way the world is. I don’t want to go through the transition to get there though
Bad news: this has nothing to do with timezones, leap days nor daylight saving time. Honestly, leap days would be worse because they wouldn’t be part of the 7 day week
It’s accounted for just like any other leap year, add it to the end of a month as a universal holiday. Most calendar models make it July 29. It’s also worth noting that this is actually 364 days, and a single day at the end of the year is a universal holiday.
Edit: I think leap years should be at the end of the year too for simplicity.
That would just be new year. I’ve already have a list ready for how to name all the months, so we don’t fuck it up like September being the 9. Month again.
Ooh, tell me what the names would be! Don’t leave me hanging. I HATE that September - December are all off.
Wheezed at this, thanks
Nice.
Which breaks “day of week = day modulo 7” if every month starts on Monday and not every month has the same number of days
Leap day and new year day are supposed to not be a week day in this system
My point exactly. So the programmer who commented above me is wrong in saying it makes it easier for them
In this scheme, new years day and leap days are not any day of the week or part of any month. They exist outside of the regular calendar as obvious and explicit resets to the remainder problem.
My point exactly. So the programmer who commented above me is wrong in saying it makes it easier for them
No, still easier. They are still part of the year, so you can just count them, and the logic is still easier than the mess we currently have. If you really feel the need to you can call new years day the zeroth day in the zeroth month, the day of the week is Holiday, and periodically the zeroth month has one extra Holiday.
Computers store the date as “days after January 1st 1970”. So you have a huge number, divide it with 7 and get the day of the week. If there are days that don’t belong to any week, you have to calculate January 1st of that year and substrate it in addition to the steps above. I don’t say it’s not manageable, but it’s not easier
They store the number of seconds since the epoch of 1970, but you’re always going to have leap days and even leap seconds. Even if you changed the definition of a second to match the current length of a year, it would be off again relatively soon and you’d need leap seconds again. It’s NEVER going to be as simple as you seem to think it should be. Chaos and complexity is inherent in the whole system.
I never said it was simple. The comment above me was “oh, this makes it much easier” and I was like “it’s not really getting easier”. That’s all I said.
Yes, I understood. I still disagree for the reasons in all of my previous comments.
Let’s agree to disagree
Look, short of changing Earth’s orbit, something’s not gonna line up no matter what you do. Extra-weekly days are as good a compromise as any in my book.
There is also a technological solution, I knew it
Just make them holidays, everyone works too much anyway, and it’s just getting worse for no reason.
Leap day gets it’s own name outside of saturday through sunday. It’s an all awesome holiday.
… which fucks with the way the day of the week is calculated by computers as I already explained others
Y2k was handled. This can be too.
Didn’t say it’s not manageable, just said it’s not easier
Developers are the only people against DST changes, just because of how complex it will get. Dear God cities are removing DST! Cities! It means I need to know if you are in or out of a city to know if you need to be shown daylight or standard time!
Just please do it nationally yes or no
Newfoundland has only just over 500k population and has a nice GMT-2:30 time zone. That’s an extra half hour difference. Many cities are larger so I can see them wanting better time for themselves.
Ugh. Any time I need to set up a meeting for IST.
Write everything in UTC, cast to local time zone for UIs
Life problems solved
That’s essentially what I did in my recent UI that I made for someone.
That… still requires knowing which time zone to display. It doesn’t remove the requirement at all.
.localtime(utctime)
and who implements localtime? You realize these functions call down to the system, and the system is very much ALSO written and maintained by coders…
The point is SOMEONE actually does have to implement it and maintain it.
That’s why it’s lucky that identifiers in the tz database are already things like
America/New_Yorkinstead of “eastern time.”thank you for your service, i usually resort to libraries doing the heavy lifting but even then it’s tough and prone to error
I hate the idea of metric time (for a lot of use cases metric is still awesome).
12 and 60 can be easily divided by 2, 3, 4, 6. 60 also by 5 and 10. Even for 8 it’s still kind of easy.
For 10 or 100 division is easy for 2, 5 and 10 and okay-ish for 4.
The 12/60 (and 360 degrees of a circle) are such an elegant system!
makes sense in a world without much fractions or the decimal system. You want to get the most divisors for your buck.
IMHO especially in a setting like time where fractions are very common (like “half an hour”), being able to represent fractions with whole numbers is very convenient.
We should “just” switch to base-6 (or maybe 12) first
AFAIK the system goes back to the old Babylonians who had a base-60 system subdivided into 5 times 12. 5 times 12 could easily be counted using your thumb to count the 12 knuckles on the other fingers and the 5 fingers of the other hand.
I mean, how amazing is counting like that! I only learned to count to 10 with my fingers. I love the base-10 for its simplicity but base-60, subbase-12 is the shit :D
Even easier and more comfortable - count the pads instead of the knuckles. You can count to 12 with one hand, or 144 with two
You are right! English is not my first language and I thought I was talking about the pads. My bad! Yours is the best way!
If only we had 6 digits per hand as standard, basic maths would be so much easier for everyone
We do, base 12 comes from 5 fingers and a fist. It was used by traders for the longest time.
Get better at math and theres no problem.
Thank you ! Last time I tried to explain this on Lemmy, I wrote my longest comment ever. I’m gonna use you much better explanation next time.
We cant ever change it now because people would complain about the cost of doing so. Like freedom units.
This post sponsored by your local landlord
Why would they are? The amount they get a year is still the same amount, just broken up more evenly.
Most leases state rent is X per month, not a total per year.
Yeah but every month would get the February discount. There is a February discount, right?
Oh honey
France tried such calendar in 1789 and 1871. We lost it when Jules Ferry executed all the communalists in Paris. Some people in France still use those calendars to show their support to revolutionary ideas
There are a few websites and twitter accounts that remind you that today is Nonidi, 29 Germinal of the year CCXXXII.
Picking up a newspaper in Thailand reminds you it’s year 2567
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/38a82c76-4f1c-4458-b189-02f3eff520c0.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/69383a63-717b-4bd0-8f9a-b279f083ac66.jpeg">
I own such a website and I can confirm that this date is right. French wikipedia though is wrong as it uses a bad simplication reform that was never voted
We should make the days 28 hours long as well while we’re at it.
I actually had this happen once. My mental health actually improved, but it was untenable for my job and social life unfortunately. It was kinda nice for a couple months though.
Afaik, the effect depends on if you have unusual circadian rhythm or not
Yeah, I noticed my rythem in absence of anything teathering it to the socially acceptable world is about 28 hours. Weird that I am not alone in this apparently.
There’s dozens of us. Dozens!
Slightly more than two dozen, actually.
i’m pretty confident it’s an evolutionary adaption to ensure there are people in the tribe that are wide awake when others are sleeping, to keep an eye on things.
same thing with neurodivergence, sexualities, and left-handedness; it’s all stuff that’s been boosting our survival as a species when a portion of the population has those differences.
The next phase of human evolution is here, and it’s gay, autistic, left handed, and sleeping at odd hours. The rest of humanity has yet to realize the end of their epoch is nigh.
People used to wake up in the middle of the night for a couple of hours then go back to sleep:
bbc.com/…/20220107-the-lost-medieval-habit-of-bip…
Mine settled on 36 hour days and it was fantastic. Plenty of time to work, plenty of time to play, and plenty to sleep, every day. … then I got a 9-5 job and my life became hell again.
Sometimes I really hate the modern world. Especially working remotely doing what could be asynchronous work with colleagues, why the hell can’t we just sleep whenever we want, as long as the work gets done.
What the flying fuck. I literally did that exact thing in university to manage my at-the-time undiagnosed sleep disorder.
I slept through like 30% of my classes, but it was the most rested I’d ever been in my life.
You really think the world could come to an agreement on which day the week should start? Would be really awkward if a month starts with the second or third day of the week.
Imagine if your birthday was always on Monday
Strong counterargument there!
I have genuinely had exactly this conversation with only the names changed. Multiple times.
.
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/d86621fd-197b-425a-b69e-5a90726f4511.jpeg">
But how would the corporate world divide the 13 month year into quarters? Don’t you know what that’ll do to the bottom line?! Think of the poor shareholders! /s
3 months 1 week?
We dine on the rich during month 13.
The solution to that is having 12 months of 4 weeks each, and one week of solstice every 3 months. One quarter then is 13 weeks in total. That makes it so each quarter perfectly matches a season and keeps it all in sync with solar time. In the ideal case you also match the school holidays to the solstice, and the winter solstice includes new year’s day and leap day, making it just a bit longer for Christmas holidays.
Yes, I’ve given this a bit too much thought.
I’d put leap day with the Summer Solstice, split up the extra days.
Kodak used this calendar for 60 years. The company’s decline started within a decade of abandoning the calendar.
en.wikipedia.org/…/International_Fixed_Calendar
Split it to 3 months as is now, then the remainder is 28 days. 28 is divisible by 4 to leave 7.
Q1 ends 1 week into April, Q2 ends 2 weeks into June, etc.
3 months and one week. Simples!
Just make inconvenient days holidays, few will complain.
Wouldn’t it make sense to have the 1st be a Sunday and 28th be a Saturday?
I used to think the same, even made fun of friends and family for setting calendars to start on Monday, but then I tried it and found the light
What’s so important about a visual change 🤣
I like having the weekend lumped together, it’s called a weekend for a reason!
Iirc most countries consider Monday the beginning of the week and Sunday the end of the week, hence the term “weekend”
TIL, in the UK we seem to see Sunday as the first day of the week, but under ISO it’s monday. Interesting.
Looks like the answer has to do with the predominant religion in the area (if any)
Monday is the first day of the work week. Seems to be on whether or not you centre your life around work or God 🤣
Duality of man
If Sunday is the first day of the week, then which days do you call weekend?
Saturday and su-… Okay you win 🤣
28*13=364
New years day is always a holiday that doesn’t fall on any other day of the calendar. It’s just kind of its own thing. No idea how that would actually work irl but that is usually how this proposal is explained.
As a software engineer, I beg of you
We just shut down the servers for one day a year and reboot all of them. How hard can it be?
Ok, and we just don’t process any of the data from that day, ever?
what happens on new years stays in new years
So we basically make the Purge a reality?
I like this idea more and more. All computers off, noone is allowed to work, just a big new years party for everyone.
EVER
Let’s be honest, we all could do with a bit less data processing.
Network switches with over 10 years of uptime chuckle nervously
You’ll also need plan for timezones as well.
Just invent 0. Array starts from 0 so can new year
Zero Nonuary.
You’ve been given the zeroth place
And leap year?
New year’s 2: Electric Boogaloo
Kinda sounds easier to implement tbh, like, right now leap days are in a specific month, but wouldn’t it (in addition to a hypothetical new years day) be easier to handle and remember if they are a very explicit part of the calendar system?
On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, now there is a day that is not part of a week, or a month. And we have a month and a week that don’t immediately follow after the previous one.
Very reasonable
Ah yes, decimalized time. An idea so bad even the French said no, just no after trying it.
People being afraid of the number 13 doesnt make it a bad idea.
I believe they’re referring to the metric time comment, not the calendar change idea.
Walter is not as smart as jesse sadly never was
It sounds like you need a rewatch. Jesse has about a quarter of Walt’s intelligence and knowledge, if that.
Bruh i was talking about all these memes in which jesse is right and walter doesn’t understand .
Eh, nvm then!
I’ve actual been saying this for years for this exact reason. God forbid we not be able to divide a year into clean quarters.
.
Three months and one week still seems like a clean quarter to me.
Alternatively, if we really want to stick to the three-month quarter then we could call the extra week of each quarter an off-week or save it all for the 13th month of the year since nothing really gets done during that time anyway.
Can we do something about October being the 10th month of the year. It’s stupid and annoying.
Blame the Caesars, Julius for July and Augustus for August.
I suppose we could fix it by moving the start of the year to March 1st. Start of spring makes more sense for the new year anyway.
Tbf, the calendar before them was even worse
That’s a common misconception. For the Romans, the year used to start with March and only have ten months. January and February weren’t even named, it was just the time between harvest and the new year. Several calendar changes followed over the centuries. Adding two months (January and February). Moving the new year to January, which made September-December no longer 7-10. Adding random one-off months to realign with the seasons. And a couple different tries at leap days, among other things.
This gives a quick overview.
Edit 2: To clarify, the above changes were all made by the Romans, they only started with a ten month calendar.
Edit: The fifth and sixth months were originally named Quintilis and Sextilis before they were changed to July and August.
The Romans had twelve months and they even named January and February, it’s usually attributed to Numa Pompilius, second king of Rome sometime during his reign (715–672 BC) of the Roman Kingdom.
All covered in the link. The addition of January and February and later moving the new year from March to January is the reason Sept-Dec are no longer the seventh-tenth months. Not July and August, which were renamings, not additions.
Edit: I suppose my first comment should have specified early Romans. The way I wrote it could be read as all those changes happening after the Romans.
You can thank Julius Augustus for that. He wanted the best months named after himself. Egomaniac.
And September (sept=seven), November (nov=nine) and December (dec=ten)…
Start the year on March 1st like it used to be?
Metric time is TAI
This reminds me of a fantasy series I like, where the world still has 365 day, but every month is 30 days long, and the remaining 5 days are separate holidays for the solstices, equinoxes, and new years.
Also, when are we going to do 10hrs/day, 100 min/hr and 100s/min?
Oh god, converting imperial kHz to metric kHz sounds awful
Mwahahaha!
The 24h cycle with subdivisions in 60 is easy for dividing them up though. 60 divides by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20 and 30.
This is how you collectively give the entire scientific community a simultaneous aneurysm. The amount of work needed to convert measurements based on our current seconds/minutes/hours to your “metric” seconds/minutes/hours would be astronomical.
Also, pretty much everyone already agrees on the current system of time, so why change it? It would just create another metric/imperial or F/C divide and cause conversion mistakes.
I think we are due another Y2K legacy system replacement global project.
Will this satisfy your request? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem?wprov=sfl…
It would add another level to time conversion between timezones
I like this better because if you have to do one holiday outside of the calendar then why not 5 and the equinoxes and solsctices divide it up perfectly. Then everything else is nice and even. I assume weeks were six days long as that is how I always thought of it. 5 six day weeks.
Apparently in the series it’s 6 5-day weeks. They also didn’t have names for the days
Don’t decimalize time, instead dozenalize our numbers! Twelve is such a better building block than ten. Pretty much all math becomes way easier using dozenal numbers instead of decimal ones.
With base 12 you can actually get a result for 1/3
But not for 1/5
Yes, but having 2, 3, 4, 6 as factors is way better than having only 2 and 5. We’d be giving up one factor to add three.
Big Decimal has brainwashed the population into thinking that 5 is a good number instead of the terrible prime number that it is. It should be clumped in with 7 and 11 as Bad Numbers when you’re dealing with anything except for 10s.
i’m intrigued, but leap days would fuck it up though
This meme already ignores the fact that it’s only produced a calendar of 364 days.
Most proposed versions I’ve seen of this calendar have New Year’s Day as a standalone holiday, so the leap day presumably tacks on to that every 4 years?
true I’ve heard about that, sure why not
Leap years aren’t every four years though, just FYI.
0
Currently, everyone in the world agrees about the days of the week (correct me if I’m wrong). If it’s Monday in France it’s Monday in Finland, besides a few hours due to timezones. But if a particular society adopts this system you describe, or any system under which every year starts on a particular day of the week and is solar aligned, that necessitates having an incomplete week and losing that sync with the entire rest of the world.
A possible solution is to only use leap weeks. So every year has 364 days, but every 6 years or so (spare me the exact calculation) you track on a leap week to realign with the solar cycle. This is similar to the leap month in the Hebrew calendar - months follow the moon so a leap month is the smallest unit possible to tweak the length of a year.
You’re wrong. For example: some of the country of Kiribati (UTC +14) will never be in the same day of the week as Hawaii (UTC -10).
Right, I forgot about that edge case… But at least they agree about a particular date’s day of the week, don’t they? And they’re consistently one day off. This proposed system would be inconsistently off, sometimes in sync and sometimes 3 days off.
Also imagine your birthday always being on a Monday…
I do not want my birthday to fall on the same day of the week each year!
Seems like a high price to pay just to test who cares enough.
Can we start the 1st on Sunday though so every month has a Friday the 13th?
This is the real discussion piece. We either always have Friday the 13th or we never do again.
I’m with you for always Friday the 13th.
Plus, never having one again just feels wrong.