Iirc, theyre the last products still using a z80, which was launched in the seventies. Keeping an entire chip fab open for one thing isnt cheap, even if its for something like a z80
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Jun 11:50
nextcollapse
At the same time, thereâs no reason why they couldnât upgrade to something else. You can do everything a graph calculator does on your cellphone using websitesâŠ
Why allow calculators at all then? People who are better at using it have an advantage, everyone should only use pen and paper for the SAT, thatâs a level playing field.
ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Jun 14:25
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But people better at writing have an advantage, we should only use language, thatâs a level playing field. /s
Ah, duh! Totally forgot about that part of the article, lol
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
on 21 Jun 15:31
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If itâs good enough for Phantasy Star itâs good enough for me.
JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Jun 11:49
nextcollapse
You only need a graphing calculator because youâre not allowed to use wolfram alpha, desmos, or Matlab. Since youâre mandated to use graphing calculators, (sometimes even specific models) thereâs no incentive to make them cheaper or better since you need to buy them anyway.
Yep, graphing calculators are a forced necessity for school, therefore they can charge anything they want and people will still buy them. This kind of artificial demand causes extreme price inelasticity and is capitalism at its worst.
Same deal with university books, you are forced to buy them so they cost hundreds of dollars, when they could easily be sold at a profit for a quarter of the cost.
Crashumbc@lemmy.world
on 21 Jun 14:06
nextcollapse
And why thereâs a ânewâ version every year that just moves things aroundâŠ
But there arenât ânewâ graphing calculators being required and they donât get worn out that easily. Thereâs a relatively stable amount of people who need one at any given time, so honestly Iâd have expected the second hand market to have crashed the market more than it has. There should honestly be multiple times over more graphing calculators in circulation than there is a need for them.
JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Jun 19:59
collapse
Yup, free market only incentives competition when itâs actually free. Demand monopolys are just as bad as supply ones.
When I was in school, it was always specific models. They had to limit it to one brand and like 2-3 known good models to prevent the ones that could solve equations.
So thereâs no reason for TI to ever lower prices.
Schools have lists of approved models for standardized test taking. If students (the largest market) canât use your calculator, making one is probably not going to be profitable.
Itâs Working As Intended* as in thereâs a demand (guaranteed by schools) so we charge whatever the fuck we want! Supply is also high? Following supply and demand as theory is for chumps! Supply and demand theory is for us to use as we see fit and to ignore the aspects we donât like!
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
on 21 Jun 17:24
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I think you know as well as I do that your honesty and integrity in describing how people are being fucked over by this process excludes you from neoclassical economics. Its always easy to catch out the fakers.
I mean, how am I supposed to justify tax breaks for the rich with that?
My life is rich but I have no monies. Tax break? đ„č
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
on 24 Jun 12:11
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So close: âtax breaks, for the rich.â If poor people stop paying tax too, whos going to pay to enforce enforce all the exploitation and wealth extraction done by the rich?
I was playing with you the entire time and you really thought you knew something huh
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
on 24 Jun 20:08
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Lol sure, as you can tell from my comments here, I was being deadly serious the whole time.
Youre the one who got all weird. Everyone else could tell I was joking around. I even let you know my intention wasnât to be rude and that it seems to have been taken the wrong way.
Oh ok, so all your comments were just jokes and you donât actually believe that? Who is everyone else? Did you take a poll? I donât give two fucks about politeness, youâre a coward whoâs scared of confrontation irl and apologize all the time for no reason. I like how you put lol after shit thatâs not funny like some kind of nervous tic.
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world
on 24 Jun 23:45
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They were half serious and an elaborate ruse. You see, I dont actually subscribe to neoclassical ideology. Crazy huh? Arenât words wild?
All the people who understood what was going on and voted on it. Youre the only person whoâs had a problem here and needed it all explained to you, in little bits. Just you, on your own.
As opposed to a big man who calls people a coward from safely behind their keyboard? Grow up.
No, i thought you had poor social skills and, as such, I couldnât be bothered with you. I said what I though would make you go away. Although, it turns out youâre were even more bitter and poorly socialised than I thought you were which is really saying something.
Youre right about one thing at least, although you didnât say it directly. Much like everyone else in your life I, shouldâve just ignored you. I wonât make that mistake again. By all means, feel free to reply and scream into the void. It wonât be read.
An elaborate ruse? In a couple replies? I think you have the same up votes as me girlfriendâŠI know it will be read by youâŠand thatâs all that matters. Tricking you into engagement is what I wantâŠand honestly Iâm starting to get a little turned onâŠDo you want me to explain that to as well sweetie? How long did you reread and edit this response?
GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml
on 21 Jun 13:42
nextcollapse
The demand is basically artificial since there are a limited amount of calculator models that are allowed to be used on tests at universities. Since they can get away with it, they keep charging these prices.
roguetrick@lemmy.world
on 21 Jun 14:57
nextcollapse
Plus those models are using the same exact chip fabs with the same exact inputs that they always have.
I had one professor who could tell almost any calculator model from 30 feet away. Other than him I never had any professor care about the specific model of calculator during an examination.
mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 21 Jun 16:20
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Fierce kitten vs Sneezy cat? Something fish-y
AstridWipenaugh@lemmy.world
on 21 Jun 15:37
nextcollapse
The TI-89 was ~$100 when I bought one 20 years ago. Looked it up on Amazon and theyâre $100-$150 depending on the specific model. They havenât kept up with inflation at all, which means theyâve been getting cheaper this whole timeâŠ
Thanks. Iâve been working with my state legislator to create new laws that give schools the legal ability to expel engineering students caught using Calculator româs. These roms have no business in education. I think with this information we can make great strides.
roguetrick@lemmy.world
on 21 Jun 21:09
nextcollapse
I made my first fortune by stealing attention and selling it as a middle man without ever giving people a cut of the profits even though it was their time. I told them they would get new features like unskippable ads and progressive pricing for services they originally had but I now place behind a paywall.
Easy enough to do all this. Just put a fresh charming face on it like a Mr.Beast and give them a cut and they will rob every kid of their free time so I can sell it. But that industry is saturated I donât think most people have a minute in their day without being sold something now and itâs hard to find a space to cram more ads into a persons day so I moved on.
I am now working to restrict peoples ability to find solutions to costly practices in order to keep the price of things like this inflated through legislation. Why should people be allowed to build their own solutions or fix products theyâre unknowingly licensing. Its not theirs.
nooneescapesthelaw@mander.xyz
on 23 Jun 18:22
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Finally, an internet warrior actually helping the world!
Could you also address this single ply nonsense Iâve seen in stores? Half ply should be the maximum, the modern anus is far too coddled today and is turning us soft when we should all be hard
SuperSpruce@lemmy.zip
on 21 Jun 19:40
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I use Calc84 on the Google Play store, free with minimal ads and a one-time fee to remove ads.
But it seems like others have found FOSS versions here.
silasmariner@programming.dev
on 21 Jun 20:14
nextcollapse
J (technically itâs a whole unique programming language with a learning curve thatâs arguably more of a learning cliff, but itâs very heavily geared towards maths and also has some nice graphing modules)
For Android, CalcES. Itâs modelled after the Casio scientific calculators, so if youâve ever used those, the app will come naturally to you. Absolute must-have if you want to calculate anything complicated on your phone.
JackbyDev@programming.dev
on 21 Jun 22:30
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I mean, even just one that has the functions of a graphing calculator.
quantenzitrone@lemmings.world
on 21 Jun 16:28
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This almost seems like the middle point between Desmosâ scientific and graphing calculators.
einlander@lemmy.world
on 21 Jun 16:30
nextcollapse
And thatâs why I own a Casio graphing calculator. Way cheaper than TI. BTW TI calculator are more expressive because you essentially are passing TI to indoctrinate you. Thr price of the calculator factors in the teaching materials, conferences, and marketing.
Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Jun 18:21
nextcollapse
Essentially, itâs because itâs a monopolistic/anti-competitive relationship, so the producer is able to charge much more than if it were competitive. The producer seeks to maximize profits, and the schools enable them by effectively controlling the market.
I remember getting my Texas instruments financial calculator circa 2009 for probably fifty dollars or so.
The professor told us that at the time, production costs for my fifty dollar calculator were roughly a dollar.
On the bright side, Iâll bring that thing in whenever I buy a car and it truly fucks with the whole âwhat kind of payment are you looking forâ routine they do. (Though these days, Iâm more likely to bring a laptop with Excel. Same idea, but faster and better visuals)
For economists (and business) students it isnât a graphing calculator but same thing with HP12c (financial calculator). But it is only like 40 dollars.
TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world
on 23 Jun 04:11
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One of the scientific calculators has great business functions in a menu (ti83 maybe?). I prefered it to actual business calculators. And it could handle the science classes as well.
I donât remember the exact model, though. Once out of school we use excel.
threaded - newest
Blame Texas Instruments for being smiley and greedy. Go figure.
đ
Those smiley fucks have got it coming, I swaer.
My TI-89 from 1998 still works perfectly, so at least you only have to buy it once.
Because of their longevity, there are a ton on the aftermarket for like $40
I used my momâs graphing calculator without issue.
We all did John.
The buttons were sticking for meâŠ
My bad
I think thereâs an important comma missing from this sentence
The crazy thing is they are basically selling the same models this whole time too
The product isnât total compute, Its reliable compute for a measuring device.
Still no excuse but pretty industry standard. The production costs for an iphone 6 where about a 100 bucks but sold for 8 times as much.
.
<img alt="" src="https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/1996.png">
source
Iirc, theyre the last products still using a z80, which was launched in the seventies. Keeping an entire chip fab open for one thing isnt cheap, even if its for something like a z80
At the same time, thereâs no reason why they couldnât upgrade to something else. You can do everything a graph calculator does on your cellphone using websitesâŠ
You say that, but its standardized. It needs to be exactly the same if only to keep everyone on a level playing field
What? Should we standardize computers so everyone has the same processing power?
For something like the SAT, yeah, youd want everyone on as level a playing field as possible
Why allow calculators at all then? People who are better at using it have an advantage, everyone should only use pen and paper for the SAT, thatâs a level playing field.
But people better at writing have an advantage, we should only use language, thatâs a level playing field. /s
The z80 actually just went EOL last week! After nearly 50 years.
Yeah but theyâre still making the ez80 for the calculators. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog_eZ80
Ah, duh! Totally forgot about that part of the article, lol
If itâs good enough for Phantasy Star itâs good enough for me.
You only need a graphing calculator because youâre not allowed to use wolfram alpha, desmos, or Matlab. Since youâre mandated to use graphing calculators, (sometimes even specific models) thereâs no incentive to make them cheaper or better since you need to buy them anyway.
Yep, graphing calculators are a forced necessity for school, therefore they can charge anything they want and people will still buy them. This kind of artificial demand causes extreme price inelasticity and is capitalism at its worst.
Same deal with university books, you are forced to buy them so they cost hundreds of dollars, when they could easily be sold at a profit for a quarter of the cost.
And why thereâs a ânewâ version every year that just moves things aroundâŠ
But there arenât ânewâ graphing calculators being required and they donât get worn out that easily. Thereâs a relatively stable amount of people who need one at any given time, so honestly Iâd have expected the second hand market to have crashed the market more than it has. There should honestly be multiple times over more graphing calculators in circulation than there is a need for them.
Yup, free market only incentives competition when itâs actually free. Demand monopolys are just as bad as supply ones.
When I was in school, it was always specific models. They had to limit it to one brand and like 2-3 known good models to prevent the ones that could solve equations.
So thereâs no reason for TI to ever lower prices.
The incentive Is supposed to be competition among manufacturers, something is preventing that
Schools have lists of approved models for standardized test taking. If students (the largest market) canât use your calculator, making one is probably not going to be profitable.
Case in point: I just looked for graphing calculators on aliexpress and theyâre like 10 bucks
Lol the app on my phone that replicates the TI layout was only $5
If you can get a copy of the ROM, or have access to a real calculator, you can get an emulator rubning actual software for free.
Its okay, as I neoclassical economist, I know exactly how to fix this issue.
Tax breaks for the rich.
Ask me to solve any economic problem, I have the answers.
No no no, itâs not an issue at all!
Itâs Working As Intended* as in thereâs a demand (guaranteed by schools) so we charge whatever the fuck we want! Supply is also high? Following supply and demand as theory is for chumps! Supply and demand theory is for us to use as we see fit and to ignore the aspects we donât like!
I think you know as well as I do that your honesty and integrity in describing how people are being fucked over by this process excludes you from neoclassical economics. Its always easy to catch out the fakers.
I mean, how am I supposed to justify tax breaks for the rich with that?
Damn, foiled again! :P
My life is rich but I have no monies. Tax break? đ„č
So close: âtax breaks, for the rich.â If poor people stop paying tax too, whos going to pay to enforce enforce all the exploitation and wealth extraction done by the rich?
God? Allah? Buddha?
Lol exactly, no one.
The first rule of colonisation is to make the colonised pay for their own colonisation.
Were you trying to prove a point?
I definitely made one but it seems to have come across wrong or rude. That wasnât my intention.
I was playing with you the entire time and you really thought you knew something huh
Lol sure, as you can tell from my comments here, I was being deadly serious the whole time.
Youre the one who got all weird. Everyone else could tell I was joking around. I even let you know my intention wasnât to be rude and that it seems to have been taken the wrong way.
Youâre the problem here.
Oh ok, so all your comments were just jokes and you donât actually believe that? Who is everyone else? Did you take a poll? I donât give two fucks about politeness, youâre a coward whoâs scared of confrontation irl and apologize all the time for no reason. I like how you put lol after shit thatâs not funny like some kind of nervous tic.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/70f65706-ae49-4f08-b9b1-062bc8f28617.jpeg">
They were half serious and an elaborate ruse. You see, I dont actually subscribe to neoclassical ideology. Crazy huh? Arenât words wild?
All the people who understood what was going on and voted on it. Youre the only person whoâs had a problem here and needed it all explained to you, in little bits. Just you, on your own.
As opposed to a big man who calls people a coward from safely behind their keyboard? Grow up.
No, i thought you had poor social skills and, as such, I couldnât be bothered with you. I said what I though would make you go away. Although, it turns out youâre were even more bitter and poorly socialised than I thought you were which is really saying something.
Youre right about one thing at least, although you didnât say it directly. Much like everyone else in your life I, shouldâve just ignored you. I wonât make that mistake again. By all means, feel free to reply and scream into the void. It wonât be read.
An elaborate ruse? In a couple replies? I think you have the same up votes as me girlfriendâŠI know it will be read by youâŠand thatâs all that matters. Tricking you into engagement is what I wantâŠand honestly Iâm starting to get a little turned onâŠDo you want me to explain that to as well sweetie? How long did you reread and edit this response?
The demand is basically artificial since there are a limited amount of calculator models that are allowed to be used on tests at universities. Since they can get away with it, they keep charging these prices.
Plus those models are using the same exact chip fabs with the same exact inputs that they always have.
I had one professor who could tell almost any calculator model from 30 feet away. Other than him I never had any professor care about the specific model of calculator during an examination.
Hey donât forget to credit the author!
Zach Weinersmith Smbc-comics.com
Thx!
The audience is listening.
Found the source of the actual comic, for higher quality :)
Fierce kitten vs Sneezy cat? Something fish-y
The TI-89 was ~$100 when I bought one 20 years ago. Looked it up on Amazon and theyâre $100-$150 depending on the specific model. They havenât kept up with inflation at all, which means theyâve been getting cheaper this whole timeâŠ
For 100$ you can buy new phone and install any math software you want
Please tell me what calculator app is as nice as a physical calculator, I havenât found one yet
f-droid.org/ru/packages/âŠ/index.html
Quck search on fdroid
Grab the rom for whichever Texas Instruments calculator you like best and use one of the various TI8X emulators:
www.f-droid.org/en/packages/com.eanema.graph89/
Just google for the rom file you want. I just tried the TI92+ found here:
wowroms.com/en/roms/mame/âŠ/108878.html
Weird calculator, but one of the more common TI models should look just as nice
<img alt="Image" src="https://i.ibb.co/P9ghH7W/Screenshot-20240621-152209.png">
Thanks. Iâve been working with my state legislator to create new laws that give schools the legal ability to expel engineering students caught using Calculator româs. These roms have no business in education. I think with this information we can make great strides.
Thanks Melvin.
Hero
Please be a joke. Please be a joke. Please be a joke.
I made my first fortune by stealing attention and selling it as a middle man without ever giving people a cut of the profits even though it was their time. I told them they would get new features like unskippable ads and progressive pricing for services they originally had but I now place behind a paywall.
Easy enough to do all this. Just put a fresh charming face on it like a Mr.Beast and give them a cut and they will rob every kid of their free time so I can sell it. But that industry is saturated I donât think most people have a minute in their day without being sold something now and itâs hard to find a space to cram more ads into a persons day so I moved on.
I am now working to restrict peoples ability to find solutions to costly practices in order to keep the price of things like this inflated through legislation. Why should people be allowed to build their own solutions or fix products theyâre unknowingly licensing. Its not theirs.
Poes law?
Finally, an internet warrior actually helping the world!
Could you also address this single ply nonsense Iâve seen in stores? Half ply should be the maximum, the modern anus is far too coddled today and is turning us soft when we should all be hard
I use Calc84 on the Google Play store, free with minimal ads and a one-time fee to remove ads.
But it seems like others have found FOSS versions here.
J (technically itâs a whole unique programming language with a learning curve thatâs arguably more of a learning cliff, but itâs very heavily geared towards maths and also has some nice graphing modules)
Wolframalpha
It isnât too bad, but it is online-only subscribtion-based.
The app can be bought with a one time purchase.
For Android, CalcES. Itâs modelled after the Casio scientific calculators, so if youâve ever used those, the app will come naturally to you. Absolute must-have if you want to calculate anything complicated on your phone.
I mean, even just one that has the functions of a graphing calculator.
geogebra.org/cas
if you already own a computing device that runs a modern-ish web browser, its gratis
This almost seems like the middle point between Desmosâ scientific and graphing calculators.
And thatâs why I own a Casio graphing calculator. Way cheaper than TI. BTW TI calculator are more expressive because you essentially are passing TI to indoctrinate you. Thr price of the calculator factors in the teaching materials, conferences, and marketing.
Essentially, itâs because itâs a monopolistic/anti-competitive relationship, so the producer is able to charge much more than if it were competitive. The producer seeks to maximize profits, and the schools enable them by effectively controlling the market.
I remember getting my Texas instruments financial calculator circa 2009 for probably fifty dollars or so.
The professor told us that at the time, production costs for my fifty dollar calculator were roughly a dollar.
On the bright side, Iâll bring that thing in whenever I buy a car and it truly fucks with the whole âwhat kind of payment are you looking forâ routine they do. (Though these days, Iâm more likely to bring a laptop with Excel. Same idea, but faster and better visuals)
For economists (and business) students it isnât a graphing calculator but same thing with HP12c (financial calculator). But it is only like 40 dollars.
One of the scientific calculators has great business functions in a menu (ti83 maybe?). I prefered it to actual business calculators. And it could handle the science classes as well.
I donât remember the exact model, though. Once out of school we use excel.