Actually most of them (according to a friend who works for a large animal hospital and has some human EMS background) are intubated far easier than humans - and they place a “hand safer” device (if you’re old enough to remember the “plastic screw device”-I don’t actually remember the actual name- used to open a seizure patients jaw that were once used, they are similar).
Back in my training day we used cats to practice neonatal intubation.
massive_bereavement@fedia.io
on 03 May 21:41
nextcollapse
CT scans take much longer, but an x-ray is just a few seconds. I think it’s just a practical way to get the bird in place for a quick x-ray, and by practical I mean the vet techs minimize their (very real) risk of being murdered.
brbposting@sh.itjust.works
on 04 May 00:12
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I think they lack a diaphragm. It was weird reading in my cockatiel care books that some handling on the neck was fine, but even small pressure to their chest could prevent them from breathing.
its_prolly_fine@sh.itjust.works
on 04 May 13:16
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That is correct. :)
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 May 21:57
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djsaskdja@reddthat.com
on 03 May 22:17
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Thanks for sharing. How does the fish one work? The dolphin I get because it breathes oxygen, but don’t all fish have gills? I feel like it should be in the water.
I’m in a yoga teacher training at the moment, and a biologist by background. It’s been amazing seeing how the different yogic breathing techniques impact mental and physical states.
Those crazy folks in the Indus valley civilization made a serious study of this, at least 4,000 years ago according to current evidence. Some techniques, like yoga nidra (alternate nostril breathing for several minutes) have significant impacts on nervous system function.
You can measure this directly with a cheap heart rate monitor and an app that can interpret and returns stats on heart rate variability.
Those old yogis made a study out of exploiting our brain’s dependence on oxygen and developed some pretty cool biohacks.
brbposting@sh.itjust.works
on 04 May 00:10
nextcollapse
Wim Hof breathing is so good from time to time
Have never given him money and think he ventures into pseudoscience but this beginner video is safe (no BS, just breathing)
Do you mean the syndrome that causes lightheadedness when standing up?
I found a 2021 research article that shows 6 months of regular cardiovascular exercise improves the condition. Some forms of physical yoga practice are vigorous and get into the cardio range.
I can’t find yoga-specific studies on POTS, but there are many on other conditions that include dizziness and syncope as main symptoms. That’s what a quick google scholar search revealed.
Yoga emphasizes attention and breath awareness during the movement practices. I personally have a job that requires a lot of stooping and standing. At first I was often dizzy standing up, but as my practice has intensified and progressed that has gone away completely.
I don’t know, if your physician clears you for the activity, there are many benefits to it. Maybe worth a deeper look?
And as for general awareness, hell yes. That is the entire focus of yoga philosophy, to quiet the busy mind. The scientific studies on that are plentiful.
mean holding lefty closed with your finger for a few minutes then righty, or does it mean back and forth… surely you can’t do this without manual intervention, right?
Yes that’s the method. It’s improperly called yoga nidra, but the correct term for the method is Nadi Shodhana Pranayama.
I’m not exactly sure what you mean. You describe the method that is used. One holds their own hand to the face with the nose between thumb and index finger. On alternate breath cycles, you direct the breath through alternating sides.
Can’t speak for op but it usually adds cheek. Sans’ use was revived a few decades ago. It tends to alter one’s tone to sound slightly stuffier, like putting on a top-hat and monocle. I’ve also seen it used more randomly by younger people who recently learned its meaning.
Edit: disclaimer and use case
InverseParallax@lemmy.world
on 04 May 11:08
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I’m old, from when it was first revived, it’s slightly snarky and removes seriousness from a topic in the middle.
I hate to read any post on the internet that involves both the words “animal” and “consent.”
Human beings are inexplicable, contradictory species that don’t know how to view the world through anything other than our momentary feelings about things, and the universe suffers for it.
I mean giraffe from the photo.
Or it’s just a head with neck 👀
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 04 May 13:48
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They have very long necks. The rest of it is still standing in the lobby, where a nice old lady with poor eyesight is telling one of its legs about her grandson.
MrShankles@reddthat.com
on 03 May 23:06
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It’s also the only one that’s an Xray instead of a CT
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 May 23:33
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One of the most difficult parts of veterinary medicine is the fact that your patients can’t directly communicate. Oftentimes, issues go unnoticed simply because the animal masks things like pain. Luckily, the vet immediately knew this hedgehog had something wrong, because it kept exploding into a bunch of golden rings.
variants_of_concern@lemmy.one
on 03 May 23:03
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Oh man I feel bad for thr intubated ones
medgremlin@midwest.social
on 04 May 21:36
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They’re probably having a better time than the ones that aren’t intubated. The intubation is to make sure they’re still breathing while they’re anesthetized. The ones without tubes are just awake and angry/scared.
trabpukcip@hexbear.net
on 03 May 23:07
nextcollapse
Would love an explanatory text writeup to go along with these. How else do vets diagnose big sick animals?
No shit, I once had the chance to accompany a patient to an large aninmal hospital for an MRI.
The problem: It was so far away that the patient needed to be airlifted. Which was far beyond the capacity of regular HEMS.
So they called in the military and they send a fucking CH-53 cargo helicopter. These things are huge and loud. But cool.
That was one interesting ride. Somewhat embarrassing for the patient (who was not in on weight level due to simply eating too much - patient had a massive and life altering orphan hormonal disease) but patient kept somewhat good spirits and the volunteer fire brigade did a good job blocking the view.
Nowadays human medicine has improved - you can now simply use an open MRI with specialised gurneys. They usually can take more than 400kg, sometimes 500kg.
drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 04 May 09:33
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Does a larger MRI produce more data than a smaller one (same data density over a larger volume), or is it the same resolution spread out over a larger space?
It depends.
MRI and to an even larger extent CT scans are “targeted” to an area.
People are very very rarely scanned “totally”.
E.g. you want to look at the cervical spine and therefore only examine this area. While you will also see neighbouring regions these are not necessarily full resolution (only if they can have an impact). So if the imaging run is being done for an area that is not affected much by the fat tissue it won’t produce more data necessarily (a cardio MRI is a good example).
If you do a abdominal or pelvis MRI/CT is normally does include all tissue and therefore will produce more data.
(Take this with a grain of salt though, while I worked inhospital for a while I am primarily a paramedic and more into repairing vital signs than radiology. While we have mobile CTs nowadays they are brain only and not my area of expertise)
There is an exception for the real complicated cases like the one I mentioned, though. As we didn’t want to do the whole transport effort 4 weeks later again because another speciality found another issue the patient was indeed scanned almost completely" (with breaks in-between as that gets uncomfortable fast).
(Sadly enough the whole thing was done 6 weeks later again,indeed, as the patient had suffered from an acute stroke which later killed them. Sad story,really. Never had a chance in life)
slappypantsgo@lemm.ee
on 04 May 11:26
nextcollapse
Obviously we should have bigger radiology machines. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to have them where you have a substantial fat population.
And for multiperson scanning of compatible patients in a dramatically more cancerous pandemic-affected modern cohort with dwindling hospital infrastructure! ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ
It would probably be wiser to focus on healthcare access and nutrition than to make extremely expensive and already large pieces of equipment triple size as standard when alternatives already exist.
This feels like the equivalent of getting abducted by a superintelligent alien race, being put into a machine beyond your wildest comprehension, and then probably getting a treat and sent back home where nobody will believe you
Feel free to add more in your replies if you have time to search.
Dear, @fossilesque@mander.xyz please credit the authors and/or sources of the picture you’re posting. Those most likely aren’t public domain, meaning credit is required (and possibly more). Also citing the source provide interesting background on the pictures.
seekpie@lemmy.seekpie.nohost.me
on 04 May 09:49
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How long does something need to stay still for a CT scan and can you send water through, just thinking about aquatic animals if you could just send the tank through.
Looking at my axolotl who can happily sit there not moving for hours in the hope of ambushing prey, staying still should be easy enough.
On OkCupid, I once briefly courted a woman with the username “RazeTheAxolotl.” One of my opening questions was whether she meant “raise” or “raze.” She meant “raise.”
I don’t think asking that helped with my chances. We didn’t end up going on any dates.
TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz
on 04 May 17:47
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Depends what imaging technique they’re using. X-ray CT might work ok with a little water in the way. Nuclear magnetic resonance might not be so good.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 04 May 15:18
nextcollapse
Ok, now do animals being tortured and murdered against their will. Much much bigger photoset.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org
on 04 May 17:38
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“Against their will” made me chuckle
medgremlin@midwest.social
on 04 May 21:26
nextcollapse
The crossovers between veterinary medicine and pediatric medicine are a lot more significant than most people like to think about. The Venn diagram isn’t a perfect circle…but it’s close.
Hats off to all these people keeping everything under control and helping these creatures. I cannot imagine how pissed off that lion or tiger would be if they woke up in the middle of a giant metal donut that makes tons of noise. I mean that takes a lot of courage. Most I will volunteer for is the bird, the fluffy burrito, and maybe the hedgehog. Pretty much anything that won’t eat me.
BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz
on 05 May 10:15
nextcollapse
threaded - newest
I wouldn’t want to be the one to have to intubate those animals.
I actually would love to be the one to intubate them!
Actually most of them (according to a friend who works for a large animal hospital and has some human EMS background) are intubated far easier than humans - and they place a “hand safer” device (if you’re old enough to remember the “plastic screw device”-I don’t actually remember the actual name- used to open a seizure patients jaw that were once used, they are similar).
Back in my training day we used cats to practice neonatal intubation.
The hamster burritos got me good.
My favorite is definitely that poor hedgehog, LOL
Mine are the snake and the taped bird
The dolphin sent me.
They really just folded that snake up
That one made me laugh as well. I never knew they had such… unflattering (yet flat!) bodies.
Why couldn’t that bird get a sleeping bag like the hamster did? Seems a bit drastic taping it down by the neck
Gotta get the wings spread.
The bird is for a normal x-ray. Here’s the context.
CT scans take much longer, but an x-ray is just a few seconds. I think it’s just a practical way to get the bird in place for a quick x-ray, and by practical I mean the vet techs minimize their (very real) risk of being murdered.
hehe
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/956411e1-9ddd-48a0-8e1a-53f7f452f55b.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/48b0b9a2-48ac-4be2-84fa-bdf08521a82c.jpeg">
Random mirror linker btw:
farside.link/https://www.reddit.com/…/modern_art
where’s the seed lebirdsky?
😆
Birds have very delicate air sacs. For small birds like that constricting them can seriously damage them and cause issues breathing.
I think they lack a diaphragm. It was weird reading in my cockatiel care books that some handling on the neck was fine, but even small pressure to their chest could prevent them from breathing.
That is correct. :)
OMG
Do we also get a thread of pictures of animals getting CT scans with their consent?
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/e802ac6c-efee-4bc6-9db1-3bfd30a7ce23.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/c9cddcb4-86d8-4715-a359-1066f6a92152.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/cc071229-c6dc-41f3-96f0-32bdd71f572d.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/1449d2f6-9d53-46e5-b19c-b3921e399333.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/62549963-23ec-4197-8188-5b62c0060aad.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/0ff24c87-63b7-4a51-a4bb-5fa7f5a5a29b.jpeg">
Thanks for sharing. How does the fish one work? The dolphin I get because it breathes oxygen, but don’t all fish have gills? I feel like it should be in the water.
Maybe the fish are dead, or not out of the water for too long.
It can be out for a matter of minutes.
Humans are just ludicrously overdependent on aerobic respiration, our brain metabolism is overcharged to the point of being broken.
Most other animals have a lot more room to function sans oxygen, they’re more limited by stored energy reserves.
I’m in a yoga teacher training at the moment, and a biologist by background. It’s been amazing seeing how the different yogic breathing techniques impact mental and physical states.
Those crazy folks in the Indus valley civilization made a serious study of this, at least 4,000 years ago according to current evidence. Some techniques, like yoga nidra (alternate nostril breathing for several minutes) have significant impacts on nervous system function.
You can measure this directly with a cheap heart rate monitor and an app that can interpret and returns stats on heart rate variability.
Those old yogis made a study out of exploiting our brain’s dependence on oxygen and developed some pretty cool biohacks.
Wim Hof breathing is so good from time to time
Have never given him money and think he ventures into pseudoscience but this beginner video is safe (no BS, just breathing)
Yeah, people, don’t follow Wim Hof in having enemas on public fountains.
Public fountain? I think you mean community bidet
Anything on there that fixes POTS or general awareness of everything around us?
Do you mean the syndrome that causes lightheadedness when standing up?
I found a 2021 research article that shows 6 months of regular cardiovascular exercise improves the condition. Some forms of physical yoga practice are vigorous and get into the cardio range.
I can’t find yoga-specific studies on POTS, but there are many on other conditions that include dizziness and syncope as main symptoms. That’s what a quick google scholar search revealed.
POTS and cardio
Yoga emphasizes attention and breath awareness during the movement practices. I personally have a job that requires a lot of stooping and standing. At first I was often dizzy standing up, but as my practice has intensified and progressed that has gone away completely.
I don’t know, if your physician clears you for the activity, there are many benefits to it. Maybe worth a deeper look?
And as for general awareness, hell yes. That is the entire focus of yoga philosophy, to quiet the busy mind. The scientific studies on that are plentiful.
Does
mean holding lefty closed with your finger for a few minutes then righty, or does it mean back and forth… surely you can’t do this without manual intervention, right?
Yes that’s the method. It’s improperly called yoga nidra, but the correct term for the method is Nadi Shodhana Pranayama.
I’m not exactly sure what you mean. You describe the method that is used. One holds their own hand to the face with the nose between thumb and index finger. On alternate breath cycles, you direct the breath through alternating sides.
Did I understand your question correctly?
You answered my wildly rambling question—thank you!
Why do you use sans instead of just saying without?
Can’t speak for op but it usually adds cheek. Sans’ use was revived a few decades ago. It tends to alter one’s tone to sound slightly stuffier, like putting on a top-hat and monocle. I’ve also seen it used more randomly by younger people who recently learned its meaning.
Edit: disclaimer and use case
I’m old, from when it was first revived, it’s slightly snarky and removes seriousness from a topic in the middle.
You’re supposed to hold your breath for a CT, so the fish is just fine for a bit.
… Who said it needs to live.
💀💀💀
Some of those seem to have consented after being forced to.
I’m pretty convinced the cat is just being a cat though.
Looks like it’s going through some reps
Somehow I don’t think the fish consented to this…
We need higher res photo of Steven the fish <img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/7325c20a-b550-4691-ad39-544969f08660.jpeg">
www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=68356859714…
I hate to read any post on the internet that involves both the words “animal” and “consent.”
Human beings are inexplicable, contradictory species that don’t know how to view the world through anything other than our momentary feelings about things, and the universe suffers for it.
A… giraffe? Are they alive?
Yeah, they’re usually found in the grasslands of Africa and a few other places in the world in addition to zoos and such.
I mean giraffe from the photo.
Or it’s just a head with neck 👀
They have very long necks. The rest of it is still standing in the lobby, where a nice old lady with poor eyesight is telling one of its legs about her grandson.
This whole thread has been a hoot, but your comment properly sent me into fits of giggling. I can picture the nice old lady perfectly.
I’m sorry, but I cannot stop laughing at this hedgehog 😂
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/6ddd5891-dcb5-49d7-9a97-d7dee43d1812.jpeg">
Free my homie sonic. He done nothing wrong.
Except had a brain tumor causing epilepsy.
<img alt="A fanart of sonic in the position of a restrained hedgehog prepared for a scan" src="https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/479/632/829">
It’s also the only one that’s an Xray instead of a CT
One of the most difficult parts of veterinary medicine is the fact that your patients can’t directly communicate. Oftentimes, issues go unnoticed simply because the animal masks things like pain. Luckily, the vet immediately knew this hedgehog had something wrong, because it kept exploding into a bunch of golden rings.
The bdsm community is leaking.
No pun intended btw.
Wearing a surgical drain is brave all on its own, but that makes me extra inspired!
“That’s it I’m taping you down!”
Poor Blaze doing his checkup 🤭
Taped animals were the most interesting of the set.
why are they MRI-ing a filet? :3
MOISTURISE ME
I love how it’s just taped down with like masking tape lol
Otherwise he’d be moving so fast the blueshift would be visibly noticeable
I hope they checked his pockets before the MRI violently pulls a bunch of rings at dangerous velocities!
they made that mfer 2-dimensional
Singer would be proud
Tiny little hedgehog voice: I’ve been a bad boy. A bad bad boy.
(Might be a girl having trouble getting my phone to load anymore than a thumbnail worth of pixels)
Whats the type of bear on 3rd picture?
I think it might be a sloth bear: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloth_bear
that goose is gonna kill some mfs when it wakes up
There’s definitely two kinds
What don’t Samsung make?
Good phones 🙄
Oh man I feel bad for thr intubated ones
They’re probably having a better time than the ones that aren’t intubated. The intubation is to make sure they’re still breathing while they’re anesthetized. The ones without tubes are just awake and angry/scared.
Would love an explanatory text writeup to go along with these. How else do vets diagnose big sick animals?
That horse one reminds me of a drawing of how a horse was hung as a form of execution for crimes, they had it strung up by it’s hooves
The snake got me laughing. They just folded it onto itself.
The only thing animals should be forced to do!
A fucking rhino!?
How many people did it take to get him on the gurney?
I’m guessing they would have some sort of overhead crane to do the heavy lifting
Amazing post
That CT scanner is like a D&D magic item that lets you conjure up to 2 hit-dice worth of medicated animals…
Love how the bird is still smiling
Thanks so much for sharing!
<img alt="" src="https://midwest.social/pictrs/image/35bce08e-2a16-4dab-8bee-edd2e24fe137.jpeg">
Stopped asking those pesky questions now didn’t it?
Stopped asking those pesky questions about what?!?
Grapes
Pretty sure that’s a goose, not a duck
knowyourmeme.com/memes/goose-chasing-guy
Peace is finally an option.
funny sad fact, if a person weigh 600 or more lbs, they sometimes have to use xrays/ct/mri in the zoos that are meant for larger animals.
I had a patient tell me he had to go to a zoo for an MRI. I thought it was a self deprecating joke but he was serious.
I learned this from Scrubs
No shit, I once had the chance to accompany a patient to an large aninmal hospital for an MRI.
The problem: It was so far away that the patient needed to be airlifted. Which was far beyond the capacity of regular HEMS. So they called in the military and they send a fucking CH-53 cargo helicopter. These things are huge and loud. But cool.
That was one interesting ride. Somewhat embarrassing for the patient (who was not in on weight level due to simply eating too much - patient had a massive and life altering orphan hormonal disease) but patient kept somewhat good spirits and the volunteer fire brigade did a good job blocking the view.
Nowadays human medicine has improved - you can now simply use an open MRI with specialised gurneys. They usually can take more than 400kg, sometimes 500kg.
Does a larger MRI produce more data than a smaller one (same data density over a larger volume), or is it the same resolution spread out over a larger space?
It depends. MRI and to an even larger extent CT scans are “targeted” to an area. People are very very rarely scanned “totally”.
E.g. you want to look at the cervical spine and therefore only examine this area. While you will also see neighbouring regions these are not necessarily full resolution (only if they can have an impact). So if the imaging run is being done for an area that is not affected much by the fat tissue it won’t produce more data necessarily (a cardio MRI is a good example). If you do a abdominal or pelvis MRI/CT is normally does include all tissue and therefore will produce more data.
(Take this with a grain of salt though, while I worked inhospital for a while I am primarily a paramedic and more into repairing vital signs than radiology. While we have mobile CTs nowadays they are brain only and not my area of expertise)
There is an exception for the real complicated cases like the one I mentioned, though. As we didn’t want to do the whole transport effort 4 weeks later again because another speciality found another issue the patient was indeed scanned almost completely" (with breaks in-between as that gets uncomfortable fast).
(Sadly enough the whole thing was done 6 weeks later again,indeed, as the patient had suffered from an acute stroke which later killed them. Sad story,really. Never had a chance in life)
Obviously we should have bigger radiology machines. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to have them where you have a substantial fat population.
And for multiperson scanning of compatible patients in a dramatically more cancerous pandemic-affected modern cohort with dwindling hospital infrastructure! ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ
It would probably be wiser to focus on healthcare access and nutrition than to make extremely expensive and already large pieces of equipment triple size as standard when alternatives already exist.
I meant from the perspective of a rational person who cares about health, not an idiot that deserves to have its head chopped off in a guillotine.
This happened in Scrubs.
First one is the Montauk Monster?!
This feels like the equivalent of getting abducted by a superintelligent alien race, being put into a machine beyond your wildest comprehension, and then probably getting a treat and sent back home where nobody will believe you
i got a CT scan once and am a dumbass so the doctors and technicians might as well have been a superintelligent race
however instead of a treat i got a giant medical bill >:(
Are we the bad guys?
If you need to ask…
they did surgery on a grape!
The mice got a nice pillow
Interesting.
Did you take these pictures, or could you mention their source? I want to make sure the author(s) get credit.
The author is my mom
Got no serious answer, so here are some results based on reverse image search:
Rhinoceros. Credit: Chicago Zoological Society. Possible source: Black Rhinoceros Undergoes Portable CT Scan At Brookfield Zoo
Bear. Credit: Kimberly Fornek / Pioneer Press. Possible source: Brookfield Zoo CT scan
Humsters. Credit: unknown.
Alligator. Credit: UF College of Veterinary Medicine. Possible source: Massive sick alligator given CT scan at University of Florida
Feel free to add more in your replies if you have time to search.
Dear, @fossilesque@mander.xyz please credit the authors and/or sources of the picture you’re posting. Those most likely aren’t public domain, meaning credit is required (and possibly more). Also citing the source provide interesting background on the pictures.
Burrito
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/9acfb622-9f12-44c9-8583-fd187e374266.jpeg">
🇫 🇷 🇪 🇪 🇭 🇮 🇲
I have a feeling, most of those are MRT and not CT
MRT machines are much larger than the devices shown here.
<img alt="" src="https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/b283793e-1b57-4770-8f8b-d66e560bfae2.jpeg">
tomorrow is monday again, folks
20 ccs of lasagna, stat!
He is thinking how he is going to hunt and kill all these humans, one by one.
This made me smile! I love it 😀
I don’t think animals are ever okay getting CT scanned
How long does something need to stay still for a CT scan and can you send water through, just thinking about aquatic animals if you could just send the tank through.
Looking at my axolotl who can happily sit there not moving for hours in the hope of ambushing prey, staying still should be easy enough.
On OkCupid, I once briefly courted a woman with the username “RazeTheAxolotl.” One of my opening questions was whether she meant “raise” or “raze.” She meant “raise.”
I don’t think asking that helped with my chances. We didn’t end up going on any dates.
Depends what imaging technique they’re using. X-ray CT might work ok with a little water in the way. Nuclear magnetic resonance might not be so good.
Ok, now do animals being tortured and murdered against their will. Much much bigger photoset.
Captain Buzzkill.
“Against their will” made me chuckle
The crossovers between veterinary medicine and pediatric medicine are a lot more significant than most people like to think about. The Venn diagram isn’t a perfect circle…but it’s close.
Hats off to all these people keeping everything under control and helping these creatures. I cannot imagine how pissed off that lion or tiger would be if they woke up in the middle of a giant metal donut that makes tons of noise. I mean that takes a lot of courage. Most I will volunteer for is the bird, the fluffy burrito, and maybe the hedgehog. Pretty much anything that won’t eat me.
Poor Sonic…
I can’t believe nobody has posted this edit yet
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4a62c37d-15e9-439e-8fdc-22a42045854a.png">
Congratulations! You have won The Internet today.
Pip pip!
What do you mean against their will? Did you ask them politely?