Cloudflare is bad. Youre right.
from Kuvwert@lemm.ee to selfhosted@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 04:08
https://lemm.ee/post/35534805

Centralization is bad for everyone everywhere.

That bring said… I just moved my homeserver to another city… and I plugged in the power, then I plugged in the ethernet, and that was the whole shebang.

Tunnels made it very easy. No port forwarding no dns configuration no firewall fiddling no nothing.

Why do they have to make it so so easy…

#selfhosted

threaded - newest

hitagi@ani.social on 26 Jun 04:18 next collapse

I also really like the tunnels feature. It makes self hosting at home easy for those under NAT/CGNAT or whatever it was called.

CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 04:21 next collapse

I use Cloudflare as my registrar and public DNS. And only for that. Sorry but they don’t get to peek at my network traffic.

nerdschleife@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 04:21 next collapse

I use cloud flare tunnel for my home server too. Are there any viable and somewhat easy alternatives?

ANIMATEK@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 04:45 next collapse

DynDNS? I’m not 100% sure what CF Tunnel does, but from my 2 min reading it seems that DynDNS would accomplish what OP described just as well.

f2sfljLhdtTZ@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 05:34 next collapse

It might help to read it once more then 🙂

jjlinux@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 13:03 collapse

Oh, it’s way more than what any dyndns can do.

exu@feditown.com on 26 Jun 04:49 next collapse

Get a cheap VPS and set up a VPN of your choice.

cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de on 26 Jun 05:33 collapse

Just make sure the VPS will shut down if the bandwidth is exceeded rather than giving you a big overage charge.

Audalin@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 04:50 next collapse

Once configured, Tor Hidden Services also just work (you may need to use some fresh bridges in certain countries if ISPs block Tor there though). You don’t have to trust any specific third party in this case.

qaz@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 07:24 collapse

Wouldn’t that be slow?

Audalin@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 10:30 next collapse

It would. But it’s a good option when you have computationally heavy tasks and communication is relatively light.

vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 10:35 collapse

Yes. Very slow. And only accessible from tor clients or tor2web/onion.to-like constructions. Which adds additional delay and errors.

There are things for which onion addresses are the right solution. This is not one of them.

thefactremains@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 05:03 next collapse

Tailscale funnels

conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works on 26 Jun 08:45 next collapse

DNS names are restricted to your tailnet’s domain name (node-name.tailnet-name.ts.net)

I guess that’s fine for some. Not a compromise I’m willing to make though.

Kuvwert@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 13:39 collapse

As soon as I can use my personal domains with tailscale funnel I’ll be switching, I like tail scale a lot

h3ndrik@feddit.de on 26 Jun 06:53 collapse

Port forwards in the router + DynDns.

art@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 04:29 next collapse

Their static website hosting is probably the best in the business. We seriously need some competition though.

lemmyvore@feddit.nl on 26 Jun 06:40 next collapse

There are tons of CDNs out there.

Mora@pawb.social on 26 Jun 10:21 collapse

Even when you host a HUGE static website (e.g. maps with thousands of image files). You can just throw it on R2 add a few transform rules, point a domain at it, and you are done. Also highlights the usability of Cloudflare compared to other solutions.

Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 04:42 next collapse

Unless you are behind CGNAT; you would have had the same plug+play experience by using your own router instead of the ISP supplied one, and using DDNS.

At least, I did.

f2sfljLhdtTZ@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 05:31 next collapse

Not entirely. CF can protect you from DDOS of up to a few millions of calls per minute. Your home router would melt with that traffic. They also act as a firewall if you enable the proxy dns feature. They do a sanity check before forwarding the call. Also a home router cannot do this. And there’s more.

lemmyvore@feddit.nl on 26 Jun 06:40 next collapse

Both your ISP and CF will drop you like a hot potato if you’re ever under that kind of attack.

CF has other features that are nice like, like WAF, bot detection, geo blocking, caching etc. But it’s only a taste.

All their real services are paid and the whole reason they offer a free tier is to upsell you to their paid services.

Auli@twit.social on 26 Jun 16:15 next collapse

@lemmyvore @f2sfljLhdtTZ You can geoock without CloudFlare.

whydoesnothingwork@mastodon.social on 26 Jun 21:38 collapse

@lemmyvore @f2sfljLhdtTZ cloud flare doesn't drop you in that situation, I've been using them for years and seen them quietly and contently mitigate attacks for my clients

Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 13:35 next collapse

Sure, cloudflare provides other security benefits; but that’s not what OP was talking about. They just wanted/liked the plug+play aspect, which doesn’t need cloudflare.

Those ‘benefits’ are also really not necessary for the vast majority of self hosters. What are you hosting, from your home, that garners that kind of attention?

The only things I host from home are private services for myself or a very limited group; which, as far as ‘attacks’ goes, just gets the occasional script kiddy looking for exposed endpoints. Nothing that needs mitigation.

Auli@twit.social on 26 Jun 16:14 collapse

@f2sfljLhdtTZ @Darkassassin07 Eveyone so worried about DDoS. They are not going to DDoS a resedential Ip address. Sure if youbpiss someone off they well they're going to do it even without selfhosting anything.

DaPorkchop_@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 22:10 collapse

I can assure you that before I set up Cloudflare, I was getting hit by SYN floods filling up the entire bandwidth of my home DSL2 connection multiple times a week.

qaz@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 07:22 next collapse

Yes, but it does expose your own IP address and thus where you live. Tunnels don’t.

Lem453@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 07:25 next collapse

True, but the downside of cloudflare is that they are a reverse proxy and can see all your https traffic unencrypted.

qaz@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 10:33 next collapse

Yes, but if you host a public site it might be a better option, the content is public anyway, and you won’t get doxed if you publish something controversial. It’s a trade-off, between keeping traffic private or keeping your IP private. Wireguard works best for private traffic, but you can’t host a public site with that.

Illecors@lemmy.cafe on 27 Jun 07:30 collapse

Wireguard works best for private traffic, but you can’t host a public site with that.

Of course you can! Nginx and wireguard on a VPS and actual services wherever you want.

[deleted] on 26 Jun 12:14 collapse

.

Aux@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 14:20 next collapse

Your IP changes all the time, it doesn’t matter. The best someone can deduct from your IP is the country.

qaz@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 16:03 collapse

This is false. Some ISP’s change IP’s often, but some don’t and sometimes geoip lookups can be really accurate. My IP has remained the same since I moved in, and a geoip lookup results in a coordinate less than a kilometer away. It does matter.

Auli@twit.social on 26 Jun 16:22 next collapse

@qaz @Aux now you’ve just exposed where you live not your ipaddress. Nobody would have thought it was that close now they do.

Aux@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 16:29 next collapse

I guess you live in a country with loads of spare IP addresses. Here in the UK they change every few days and IPs get rotated between all ISPs, so you can’t even deduct which ISP I’m using. And sometimes my IP is not even a mainland UK IP, but some weird shit from across the world, because Empire, lol.

pirat@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 23:30 collapse

When looking up my static ip, the location I get is the one of my ISP, not my address. Do you happen to live nearby some central infrastructure of your ISP? (If it seems otherwise, I’m not trying to debunk what you said - I’m just asking curious questions!)

qaz@lemmy.world on 27 Jun 05:09 collapse

Yes, it seems to be a hit or a miss. I don’t think I live near any central infrastructure or ISP, especially not this specific part of the city.

Auli@twit.social on 26 Jun 16:19 collapse

@qaz @Darkassassin07 what are you even saying? Ip address doesn’t expose where you live. And better get off the internet right now if your concern is exposing your ip cause it was never secret to begin with.
Tunnels stop you from opening a port so nothing is exposed openly to the internet but it does not keep your ip private.

princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 17:29 next collapse

How do you imagine that geoblocking content works if IP addresses don’t expose where you live?

And better get off the internet right now if your concern is exposing your ip cause it was never secret to begin with.

qaz could be using any of dozens of different methods to obfuscate their IP from the wider internet to write their comment, Tor or a VPN to name just a couple.

qaz@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 18:33 collapse

Ip address doesn’t expose where you live.

letmegooglethat.com/?q=geoip+lookup

Tunnels stop you from opening a port so nothing is exposed openly to the internet^1^ but it does not keep your ip private^2^.

This is also incorrect.

  1. The entire purpose of CF tunnels is to expose sites on the internet
  2. CF tunnels (and services like it e.g. ngrok) rely on shared proxy servers that forward traffic based on HTTP host headers (which is why you can’t forward arbitrary TCP traffic). The IP of the site will therefore have the shared IP of the company’s proxy server instead of your own.
IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 09:02 collapse

No. You are skipping DNS.

lemming741@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 09:28 next collapse

I didn’t skip it, I installed ddclient.

Cloudflare is the devil!

Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 13:38 collapse

and using DDNS

As in, running software to update your DNS records automatically based on your current system IP. Great for dynamic IPs, or just moving location.

Decronym@lemmy.decronym.xyz on 26 Jun 04:45 next collapse

Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters More Letters
CF CloudFlare
CGNAT Carrier-Grade NAT
DNS Domain Name Service/System
HTTP Hypertext Transfer Protocol, the Web
HTTPS HTTP over SSL
IP Internet Protocol
NAT Network Address Translation
SSH Secure Shell for remote terminal access
SSL Secure Sockets Layer, for transparent encryption
SSO Single Sign-On
TCP Transmission Control Protocol, most often over IP
TLS Transport Layer Security, supersedes SSL
VPN Virtual Private Network
VPS Virtual Private Server (opposed to shared hosting)

13 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on today has 8 acronyms.

[Thread #830 for this sub, first seen 26th Jun 2024, 04:45] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]

Lawnman23@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 13:18 collapse

Good bot.

vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 05:14 next collapse

The trouble with cloudflare is that there is just one. It’s one of the best registrars out there, the only free/cheap and usable DNS host (have you seen what route53 charges per zone??). That without getting into the whole tunnels and DDoS mitigation end of things, which is nearly unique at any price point.

The problem with cloudflare is that we’re missing three other cloudflares to move to if they decide to pull evil shit.

mhzawadi@lemmy.horwood.cloud on 26 Jun 05:55 next collapse

So I need to make a VPS setup script to install bind for DNS and wireguard or openvpn and push it to gitlab/GitHub?

vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 06:03 collapse

I am not sure what that would accomplish.

I have all that, but I still use cf for a ton of stuff.

ramble81@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 06:20 next collapse

The bigger trouble is creating a CDN has a stupidly high barrier to entry. You literally need your own data centers across the world, your own server infrastructure, the man power to manage it, etc.

You could try to host it on a cloud provider but you’d go bankrupt even quicker. Unless someone were to try to build a co-op run CDN, it’s just not gonna happen without a profit motive and a large amount of capital.

vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 07:49 next collapse

That’s true. The bizarre paradox of the centralization of edge infrastructure is real.

That said, the other edge-lords (haha) could offer similar functionality, but they chose not to.

yannic@lemmy.ca on 26 Jun 09:18 next collapse

I once realized so many of my favourite businesses were cooperatives. I started thinking of what other co-ops I could start and grow. The excitement faded once I realized it would have to not be about the money.

jlh@lemmy.jlh.name on 26 Jun 10:28 next collapse

Coops are still about the money. They’re about saving money by sharing resources with fellow workers/consumers, and maintaining democratic control over the company. You’re not going to get rich from a coop (without embezzlement), but you and your coowners will be cutting out the middle man. Obviously, it only makes sense for industries that you’re heavily invested in.

laughterlaughter@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 10:40 collapse

Car making without the tracking bullshit!

NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 16:58 collapse

I feel like something like www.storj.io is on the path to what we would want/need?

There might be some additional requirements for a true CDN to ensure data is closer to where it’s needed and in as many regions as needed though with the right amount of bandwidth. The data gets stored all over the place, but that doesn’t mean its optimal. But they do seem to claim it’s faster on their website…

Edit: For those not wanting to click, TLDR is they use excess storage around the world and make it accessible anywhere, and safe from failures. People with excess storage can join the network if they have enough storage/bandwidth and pass some tests. Their API is S3 compatible.

lemmyvore@feddit.nl on 26 Jun 06:36 next collapse

It’s not the only free DNS service.

It’s only a good registrar if you don’t care about privacy and you’re ok with their selection of TLDs (selected only from registries without privacy).

The free accounts do not benefit from DDoS protection. Re-read their terms of service, they’re vague on purpose. If you were ever DDoS’ed (I don’t know who would bother btw but that’s another discussion) they’d just drop you.

You can establish the tunneling thing on your own with any VPS.

The problem with cloudflare is that we’re missing three other cloudflares to move to if they decide to pull evil shit.

You can and should diversify your services and spread them to different providers that are easy to switch. I’ve been with “all in one” providers before, they inevitably end up leveraging their convenience into all sorts of crap. But until you get burned a couple of times they look really good.

lud@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 06:59 next collapse

It’s only a good registrar if you don’t care about privacy and you’re ok with their selection of TLDs (selected only from registries without privacy).

I wish they supported my country’s two CCTLDs but other than that I’m very happy. I would never buy any of the crazy vanity TLDs anyways.

I mostly own .com domains and two CCTLDs domains.

gkpy@feddit.org on 26 Jun 09:55 collapse

It’s not the only free DNS service.

can i get some alternatives. currently basically using cf pretty much just for dns, but would really like to switch

Mora@pawb.social on 26 Jun 10:18 next collapse

desec.io

gkpy@feddit.org on 26 Jun 10:28 collapse

that looks great, thanks o/

EDIT: looks like you can only manage 1 domain before having to contact their support

<img alt="" src="https://litter.catbox.moe/0bxcv3.jpg">

Mora@pawb.social on 26 Jun 10:55 next collapse

As it is run by volunteers, they probably want to keep corporate (or domain hoarders) off their platform unless they pay.

gkpy@feddit.org on 26 Jun 11:25 collapse

makes sense, they support plenty of donation options, if that’s suggested/a requirement to let me transfer in more than 1 :)

lemmyvore@feddit.nl on 26 Jun 22:06 collapse

Contact support and tell them how many you need and they’ll try to accommodate you. There were a lot of people abusing the service and hosting hundreds of domains so now they’re making everybody request them explicitly unfortunately. They’ve also had to suspend their .dedyn.io DDNS service indefinitely because of the abuse.

That’s why we can’t have nice things.

Please read up on DNSSEC because you will be required to turn it on for every domain you host with them.

lemmyvore@feddit.nl on 26 Jun 22:02 collapse

community.letsencrypt.org/t/…/86438

I’m not seeing bunny.net on that list, it has a DNS service with API. They have a minimum account maintenance fee of $1/mo and when you load up your account you have to load a minimum of $10. So basically it’s $1/mo for which you get a lot of DNS and CDN service included (20M DNS queries and 100GB transfer).

wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 06:52 next collapse

there is just one

Well it’s cloudflare, not cloudsflare. Maybe overcasthosting, or sunblockservers…

Mora@pawb.social on 26 Jun 10:17 next collapse

only free/cheap and usable DNS host

Check out desec.io als an alternative

vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 10:19 next collapse

That sure does seem to tick a lot of boxes. I’m going to check it out!

tgxn@lemmy.tgxn.net on 26 Jun 15:53 collapse

I’ve moved a couple of domains to dnssec and it’s great, simple DNS.

[deleted] on 26 Jun 13:26 collapse

.

Kyouki@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 05:20 next collapse

I am out of the loop, what’s going in with snooping?

I use their cloudflared tunnel sometimes for accessing home hosted stuff.

slazer2au@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 05:48 collapse

Because Cloudflare acts as a reverse proxy it can see everything that happens in a session.
This is also known as a man in the middle attack. But Cloudflare meds to do this in order to do it’s checks for bad actors.

Now, as Cloudflare has access to the unencrypted traffic and we know that NSA is all about data vacuuming due to the Snowdn leaks we can make a tin foil hat guess whaylt goes on.

ramble81@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 06:18 next collapse

Just note, OP, that the last part of his statement is pure speculation. The first part is technically true, which can lead to that inference, but no information has been released which corroborates it. However, that does not mean it’s not possible.

slazer2au@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 06:22 next collapse

This is true. Which is why I said tinfoil hat guess.

h3ndrik@feddit.de on 26 Jun 06:46 collapse

Though those leaks showed they actually did it on a large scale. I don’t think they stopped for some arbitrary reason. Why would they? And technology developed further, surveillance is only getting easier. I’d say even without a tin-foil hat on, it’s more likely they do it than not.

Auli@twit.social on 26 Jun 16:26 collapse

@ramble81 @slazer2au sure but they had PRISM to think they are still not doing something like that is absurd. We know they’re doing it and cloudflare would be a perfect target.

Kyouki@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 09:58 next collapse

Thank you!

IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 10:59 collapse

I don’t understand why Cloudflare gets bashed so much over this… EVERY CDN out there does exactly the same thing. It’s how CDN’s work. Whether it’s Akamai, AWS, Google Cloud CDN, Fastly, Microsoft Azure CDN, or some other provider, they all do the same thing. In order to operate properly they need access to unencrypted content so that they can determine how to cache it properly and serve it from those caches instead of always going back to your origin server.

My employer uses both Akamai and AWS, and we’re well aware of this fact and what it means.

h3ndrik@feddit.de on 26 Jun 06:41 next collapse

Well, centralization and giving up your freedoms, letting someone else control you, is always kinda easy. Same applies to all the other big tech companies and their platforms. I’d say it applies to other aspects of life, too.

And I’d say it’s not far off from the usual setup. If you had a port forward and DynDns like lots of people have, the Dns would automatically update, you’d need to make sure the port forward is activated if you got a new router, but that’s pretty much it.

But sure. if it’s too inconvenient to put in the 5 minutes of effort it requires to set up port forwarding everytime you move, I also don’t see an alternative to tunneling. Or you’d need to pay for a VPS.

send_me_your_mommy_milkers@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 07:06 next collapse

Are there browser plugins (or other solutions) to see if an site uses cloudflare before visting?

LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 07:55 next collapse

Is there a way to do reverse tunnels, or something like it, so not opening any ports at all on the network, without cloudflare?

Closest to that XP I got was generating VPN keys and distributing them to close friends, running DDNS (no-ip) on my Pi with a pivpn server and then accessing JellyFin that way.

maiskanzler@feddit.de on 26 Jun 15:12 collapse

Rent a VPS, point DNS to it, have it act as central wireguard peer and connect your server(s). Then bridge incoming traffic to server via socat or firewall rules. Done

LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 17:37 collapse

That’s a lot of work. Thanks though.

anzo@programming.dev on 26 Jun 08:11 next collapse

we should definitively have a wiki (though people should use “search” too, I wonder if a wiki would help really). This “topic” comes every month. I have posted this already, here it goes again: github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling

mal3oon@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 10:24 next collapse

Thanks for sharing!

Kuvwert@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 13:20 collapse

That’s awesome thanks!

IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 09:03 next collapse

It’s almost like the big tech companies are really good at their jobs…

JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl on 27 Jun 05:36 collapse

Woah, let’s not be hasty. A few big tech companies are really good at their jobs…

Let’s not forget the dozens of big tech companies run by absolute morons that bring products that nobody wants or needs and only stay afloat due to legacy, stealing data & selling it, and/or venture capital.

IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world on 27 Jun 08:45 next collapse

👌👍

Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 Jun 11:18 collapse

Let’s not forget the dozens of big tech companies run by absolute morons that bring products that nobody wants or needs and only stay afloat due to legacy, stealing data & selling it, and/or venture capital.

You just described Twitter/X

Moonrise2473@feddit.it on 26 Jun 10:22 next collapse

also, when you have 5g failover on the router and the fiber it’s down, it automagically continues to work without admin intervention

shiftymccool@programming.dev on 26 Jun 10:46 next collapse

Why does Cloudflare get a pass on the “if it’s free, you’re the product” mantra of the self-hosting community? Honest question. They seem to provide a lot for free, so…

morrowind@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 11:43 next collapse

It’s usually free tiers of paid products

shiftymccool@programming.dev on 26 Jun 12:49 next collapse

That makes sense, except Google kinda does the same thing. Everything they have is technically just a “free tier” of the Google One subscription, right? I guess I’m saying that “free tier of paid product” doesn’t automatically qualify a company as trustworthy for me. Is there something else that sets Cloudflare apart?

exanime@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 13:33 next collapse

For me personally, it was all about balance.

15 years ago, Gmail/Inbox was a great email client, the domain was great and popular (so no need to spell it out for people) and I would “pay” by getting ads based on my emails read by a bot.

Now Gmail is a terrible email client, the best updates are ridiculous things like moving buttons around and it takes Google years to roll out. The thing loses emails, mislabels and misclassifies stuff and the rules work for a week then blow up. On top of that, google is now basically a proctologist considering how far up my ass they want to go

The balance is broken… Google now officially sucks (IMO)

morrowind@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 14:29 next collapse

Well search and maps (and some others) have no paid tier. Even for paid products, google does quite explicitly make money from the free version through ads. And most google ads are through third party sites, so you can’t opt out of them by paying google.

irotsoma@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 16:33 next collapse

In my opinion, the difference with Google is that Google is actively using your data and you’re giving them a lot of it. For Cloudflare, what do they have exactly? Depends on what services you use, but really all they get from me is the list of servers that connect to my domains. Google does that too if you use 8.8.8.8, or if you have any of their hardware that overrides router DNS settings like Chromecast and Google TV.

MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Jun 21:26 next collapse

Quality of their products maybe? Cloudflare feels like they put a lot of effort into their product, Google not so much with how buggy everything is and how often they just abandon products they offer.

jnk@sh.itjust.works on 28 Jun 02:06 collapse

Google is an advertising company first, everything else second. Of course they shouldn’t be trusted, it’s safe to assume they’ll log and analyze the smallest piece of data

chiisana@lemmy.chiisana.net on 27 Jun 01:09 collapse

Strictly speaking, they’re leveraging free users to increase the number of domains they have under their DNS service. This gives them a larger end-user reach, as it in turn makes ISPs hit their DNS servers more frequently. The increased usage better positions them to lead peering agreement discussions with ISPs. More peering agreements leads to overall cheaper bandwidth for their CDN and faster responses, which they can use as a selling point for their enterprise clients. The benefits are pretty universal, so is actually a good thing for everyone all around… that is unless you’re trying to become a competitor and get your own peering agreement setup, as it’d be quite a bit harder for you to acquire customers at the same scale/pace.

olafurp@lemmy.world on 27 Jun 08:58 next collapse

Because most self hosted things are free already. It doesn’t apply to FOSS.

oyenyaaow@lemmy.zip on 27 Jun 10:50 next collapse

They have for public benefit program where they give out their paid security tiers for free? If you can get recommended into it. Build a lot of goodwill there for non-profits community.

Nibodhika@lemmy.world on 28 Jun 07:02 next collapse

Do you have an alternative to cloudflare tunnels? I’d love to hear it, because I’m also not really happy about relying on them either, but tailscale only works up to an extent because not all devices can connect to it and it’s a pain in the ass to get random family members to connect to it as well.

oyenyaaow@lemmy.zip on 01 Jul 22:28 collapse

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/3c4947a5-b342-4370-a047-a96c9320da57.webp">

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/04f4f264-64a4-453e-b7cb-9a8d0a145cd3.webp">

randomly came across these, so yeah.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/223f40cf-2ded-4e89-903f-5a40a6cb2816.webp">

edit: about this apparently archiveofourown.org/works/54711364

maiskanzler@feddit.de on 26 Jun 11:24 next collapse

Sure it’s easy to set up, but the same behaviour is what I get with my handrolled solution. I rent a cheap VPS with a fixed IP solely for forwarding all traffic through wireguard. My DNS entries all point to the VPS and my servers connect to the VPS to be reachable. It is absolutely network agnostic and does not require any port shenanigans on the local network nor does it require a fixed IP for the internet connection of my home server.

Data security wise the HTTPS terminates on my own hardware (homeserver with reverse proxy) and the wireguard connection is additionally encrypted. There are no secrets or certificates on the rented VPS beyond the bare minimum for the wireguard tunnel and my public key for SSH access.

Shuttling the packets on the VPS (inet to wireguard) is done by socat because I haven’t had the will or need to get in the weeds with nftables/iptables. I am just happy that it works reliably and am happy to loose some potential bandwidth to the kernelspace/userspace hoops.

asceticism@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 12:37 next collapse

What VPS do you use for this?

TurdMongler@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 14:09 next collapse

If you want something cheap check out RackNerd yearly deals. Last I checked they still have listings for black Friday and other old deals once you’ve made an account. I got a server for like $12 a year with 5tb monthly bandwidth. I have 3 servers total with them and haven’t had a problem for the 3 years I’ve been using them.

Nibodhika@lemmy.world on 28 Jun 07:39 collapse

That would be awesome, currently it’s 500GB for their cheaper option which starts at 23/year. I didn’t find an option to increase the bandwidth before completing the order. Also it needs to be deployed in NY (which would be possibly slow for me in Europe). Finally their isos are somewhat old, the latest Ubuntu they have is 20.04 (which has an EoL next year).

All that being said, 23/year is very cheap for a VPS, and for people in the US that use less than 500GB/month that’s the best deal I’ve ever seen.

TurdMongler@lemmy.world on 28 Jun 14:05 collapse

There should be more deals when you click add services.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/54f8466e-1f28-42d5-bd32-979ee6c15872.png">

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4a1e606e-0cec-4984-9268-c4e79f5f0945.png">

Understand on the latency possibly being an issue. I did see they have servers in France now. Maybe you could do some ping tests.

Nibodhika@lemmy.world on 28 Jun 15:38 collapse

Thanks, I’m checking that out, but can’t find any “add services” button. Alsp someone mentioned IONOS, which is local to me and doesn’t seem to have bandwidth limits… I was trying to find the poop and they require lots of personal info just to get the account setup, still a bit torn there.

maiskanzler@feddit.de on 26 Jun 15:15 collapse

I am using the smallest tier VPS from IONOS for 1€/month. Good, reliable and trustworthy as it is a subsidiary of 1&1 telecommunications.

madasi@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 13:04 next collapse

Does this cause all traffic at the reverse proxy to appear to come from the source IP of your VPS or does it preserve the original source IP?

I’ve been working on setting up a similar setup myself and am trying to figure out specifically how to handle the forwarding on the VPS.

EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 14:21 next collapse

I have a similar setup and I just have the reverse proxy on the VPS. It then proxies back to the home server on whatever port the service is on. And yes you can forward the original client IP if you wish.

maiskanzler@feddit.de on 26 Jun 15:20 next collapse

Yes, I do loose the origin IP and I’m a little bugged by it. It also means that ALL traffic incoming on a specific port of that VPS can only go to exactly ONE private wireguard peer. You could avoid both of these issues by having the reverse proxy on the VPS (which is why cloudflare works the way it does), but I prefer my https endpoint to be on my own trusted hardware. That’s totally my personal preference though.

I trust my VPS provider to not be interested enough in my data to setup special surveillance tooling for each and every possible software combination their customers might have. Cloudflare on the other hand only has their own software stack to monitor and all customers must adhere to it. It’s by design much easier for them to do statistics or snooping.

Perhyte@lemmy.world on 27 Jun 08:27 next collapse

It also means that ALL traffic incoming on a specific port of that VPS can only go to exactly ONE private wireguard peer. You could avoid both of these issues by having the reverse proxy on the VPS (which is why cloudflare works the way it does), but I prefer my https endpoint to be on my own trusted hardware.

For TLS-based protocols like HTTPS you can run a reverse proxy on the VPS that only looks at the SNI (server name indication) which does not require the private key to be present on the VPS. That way you can run all your HTTPS endpoints on the same port without issue even if the backend server depends on the host name.

This StackOverflow thread shows how to set that up for a few different reverse proxies.

maiskanzler@feddit.de on 29 Jun 14:29 collapse

Nice, thank you!

towerful@programming.dev on 27 Jun 10:21 collapse

You can do reverse proxy on the VPS and use SNI routing (because the requested domain is in clear text over HTTPS), then use Proxy Protocol to attach the real source IP to the TCP packets.
This way, you don’t have to terminate HTTPS on the VPS, and you can load balance between a couple wireguard peers so you have redundancy (or direct them to different reverse proxies or whatever).
On your home servers, you will need an additional frontend(s) that accepts Proxy Protocol from the VPS (as Proxy Protocol packets aren’t standard HTTP/S packets, so standard HTTPS reverse proxies will drop them as unknown/broken/etc).
This way, your home reverse proxy knows the original IP and can attach it to the decrypted http requests as x-forward-for. Or you can do ACLs based on original client IP. Or whatever.

I haven’t found a way to get a firewall that pays attention to Proxy Protocol TCP headers, but I haven’t found that to really be an issue. I don’t really have a use case

maiskanzler@feddit.de on 29 Jun 14:29 collapse

Oh neat! That looks like a perfect fit for me! I saved your post and will come back to it once the biyearly “just f*ing fo it again” motivation hits me once more :D

lucky18391@lemdro.id on 26 Jun 17:28 next collapse

I also have a similar setup to maiskanzler. But I use iptables to forward the traffic over wireguard and I am able to preserve the original client IP by not snat the packets. I then have to use policy based routing to make sure that traffick goes back out through the wg tunnel.

I’m happy to share info on how to get this working.

MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 18:05 next collapse

I’d like a blog please

madasi@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 20:16 next collapse

I’d certainly be interested in full details. This sounds like the best of all worlds of not needing to double reverse proxy, not hardcoding internal IPs in the config of a single reverse proxy on the VPS, and not losing the source IP.

sntx@lemm.ee on 27 Jun 10:33 collapse

Please tell ^^

lucky18391@lemdro.id on 27 Jun 12:20 collapse

I’m not sure what the best way to share this info is. I’d love to write up a blog but not sure how long that would take. I suppose I could just share the wireguard configs here as they include the iptable commands. Will do that tonight when I get a chance.

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 22:15 next collapse

It depends on how you set it up

SeeJayEmm@lemmy.procrastinati.org on 27 Jun 11:15 collapse

Enough people have already commented on the “proxy at the vps solution”. Another option is to configure routing and nat on the VPS and have it route over the wg tunnel.

Requires you to have postup/predown scripts that modify your routing tables on the wg endpoint.

HaleHirsute@infosec.pub on 26 Jun 14:49 next collapse

That’s a good setup.

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 22:15 next collapse

This is the right answer

scrchngwsl@feddit.uk on 27 Jun 10:08 collapse

Same here. Works great, incredibly cheap too.

KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 13:17 next collapse

I mean, I used to think Google Public DNS was great until I switched to 1.1.1.1…

Kuvwert@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 13:40 next collapse

What benefits are you having from switching?

Sunny@slrpnk.net on 26 Jun 14:37 next collapse

Commenting as I am curious about this too!

KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 14:45 collapse

1.1.1.1/cloudflared responds crazy fast compared to anything else i’ve used. I really just wanted off Google (and before them OpenDNS). That’s about it.

Fuzzypyro@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 13:50 next collapse

If you like 1.1.1.1 the. You should try 9.9.9.9. Or better yet host unbound pihole if you’re up to the challenge. Best dns experience I’ve had.

Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 14:40 next collapse

If you use 9.9.9.9, you should try Mullvad DNS (with adblocking) or AdGuard Public DNS

Manalith@midwest.social on 27 Jun 11:07 collapse

Since we’re all throwing out DNS options, I’ll toss in NextDNS

KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml on 26 Jun 14:47 collapse

I already use pihole, but with cloudflared as the upstream. What benefits does unbound offer besides improved security?

MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 18:03 collapse

It’s actually better privacy since it talks directly to the root servers instead of cloudflare knowing all of your DNS traffic. Quad9 is a good alternative with better data policies

IHawkMike@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 23:40 collapse

So now your ISP sees all of your queries instead of CF. (Assuming the cloudflared option is using DoH)

I’ll trust Cloudflare over Comcast/AT&T/etc. any day of the week.

MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world on 27 Jun 02:00 next collapse

You can run a VPN and tunnel your outbound DNS queries over that. Heck, you could tunnel your DNS queries over TOR

girsaysdoom@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jun 13:03 next collapse

It looks like Quad9 supports DoH: quad9

maxwellfire@lemmy.world on 28 Jun 04:04 next collapse

Your ISP knows where you’re going anyway. They don’t need DNS for that. They see all the traffic.

MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world on 30 Jun 03:36 collapse

You might want to study more about SNI. Your ISP knows anyway

IHawkMike@lemmy.world on 30 Jun 14:26 collapse

I know plenty account SNI already, but thanks. You might want to study more yourself, since we’re being condescending.

blog.cloudflare.com/encrypted-sni/

MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world on 30 Jun 17:20 collapse

Well, running your own DNS server will also give you eSNI. And Cloudflare still doesn’t know anything

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 22:14 collapse

9.9.9.9

Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 14:41 next collapse

I prefer Tailscale Funnel for these kinds of things. NetBird and ZeroTier also work just fine if you don’t want to expose your services to the public.

Kuvwert@lemm.ee on 26 Jun 15:35 next collapse

Tailscale is so cool too. I’ll definitely be switching if I can ever use my own domains

sorter_plainview@lemmy.today on 26 Jun 16:04 next collapse

Actually you can… I do that with my setup. Just point your domain to the new ip assigned by tailscale to your server. Thats all. Recently they started supporting the https certificate also… Even though it’s not needed, for internal only communication.

PlexSheep@infosec.pub on 26 Jun 16:32 collapse

You can set A DNS entries without wildcard in the configs (with head scale at least), just use their magic DNS thing that works with hostnames or just self host DNS and tell your tailnet to use that.

kylian0087@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jun 18:00 collapse

I looked at headscale but as far as I can tell their is no active directory or SSO integration. Which is very unfortunate.

tux7350@lemmy.world on 26 Jun 21:26 collapse

Good news, they support OIDC! Haven’t tested it myself so your mileage may vary.

headscale.net/oidc/#basic-configuration

Mio@feddit.nu on 26 Jun 16:27 next collapse

Just stop supporting the biggest actor in the market.

matcha_addict@lemy.lol on 27 Jun 03:56 collapse

That’s just a bandaid on capitalism’s issues. Urging people not to support the biggest actor will never work in the grand scheme of things, when said actor provides their best immediate interests.

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip on 26 Jun 22:13 next collapse

DIY your own Cloudflare

[deleted] on 27 Jun 17:51 next collapse

.

nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de on 28 Jun 01:49 collapse

I have written a small blog post about how to Bypass CGNAT, and have also mentioned why you should not use Cloudflare if you are hosting for privacy.