zifnab25@hexbear.net
on 05 Jan 2024 23:24
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Picard was already bordering on elder abuse.
FaceDeer@kbin.social
on 06 Jan 2024 06:02
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I think it might be self-inflicted. Patrick Stewart is big enough that he can make it so with regard to the scripts. He's the one that insisted there be a dune buggy chase scene in Nemesis, for example. And he's pushed for more action and romance in the movies. I suspect that this is another case of a good actor or writer who works best when tempered by outside control.
Jaccident@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 11:06
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I don’t know that insistence is the right way to phrase it. Sir Patrick and Brent Spiner are good friends, IIRC Nemesis was written by Spiner’s old flatmate and best friend. As such the wants of the actors started creeping into the scripts, not out of insistence per se, but perhaps more out a natural affect of a close working relationship. Sometimes a healthy distance is most important between a writer’s room, and the cast.
ValueSubtracted@startrek.website
on 05 Jan 2024 23:29
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I heard only last night about a script that is being written, but written specifically with the actor, Patrick [Stewart], to play in it. And I’ve been told to expect to receive it within a week or so.
Notably, that week was several weeks ago:
TrekMovie has confirmed with Josh Horowitz that this interview was recorded in early November as Stewart was out promoting his new memoir, Making It So.
Infynis@midwest.social
on 05 Jan 2024 23:42
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I hope this is his swan song. Patrick Stewart is amazing, and I love Captain Picard, but he’s not Harrison Ford. The franchise will be fine without him. We don’t need to play out Too Short a Season in real life
EarMaster@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 00:21
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Three seasons of PIC were already a mistake. The only good thing coming from it is the possibility of a Riker cooking/baking show (which I would totally watch).
Apollonius_Cone@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 00:42
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In rewatching the original series and TNG thereafter, the consistent factor, regardless of the early special effects, was the scripts. The dialogue was always great. In ST: Picard, the dialogue is trash.
Everything about ST Picard is trash. Dialogue, script, Character behavior, 50 years of fransche history ignored, it was all written and executed by people who don’t like star Trek, cast excluded though I just don’t understand why any of the vast was on board with this turd. We’re they so desperate for money?
lordnikon@lemmy.world
on 27 Mar 2024 02:50
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it’s even worse than that they write characters that are not in the world of star trek but written like they are fans of the star trek. that might work for a comedy like lower decks but it stunts growth of the franchise.
since we can’t make new stories or ask new questions. They are just stuck in a circle of reference and the bare minimum of a story / scavenger hunt to get to those references. Terry Matalas has said this himself.
But hey at least we have unedited versions of the originals unlike star wars and I hope all the actors got big paydays in their golden years.
Avigrace@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 00:51
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2 seasons were a mistake and by far the worst trek seasons from any show, the third season while being massive fan service was just what I seemingly wanted as I loved every second and was a great ending to the TNG crew
canis_majoris@lemmy.ca
on 06 Jan 2024 01:32
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I just watch the third season and pretend all of the random references to the early seasons happened in a more logical way.
I knew somebody who was running a “what could have been” Star Trek TTRPG campaign based around episodes of Voyager that could have been executed better, I think I would love to run a campaign that had plot elements from Picard’s first two seasons as a personal headcanon.
richieadler@lemmy.myserv.one
on 06 Jan 2024 01:30
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The sitcom The Rikers as pitched by Sirtis and Frakes would have been better that the three seasons of Picard, frankly.
ursakhiin@beehaw.org
on 06 Jan 2024 14:40
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I think the difference between Stewart and Ford is that Stewart seems more to be doing it because he enjoys this character. Ford seems to be doing it in spite of his feelings.
As long as Stewart is still having fun, I’m happy with him continuing as long as he wants.
startrek@hub.hubzilla.de
on 09 Jan 2024 19:01
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@Infynis Swan Song? So it will be a Musical Film? Sorry, could not resist
startrek@hub.hubzilla.de
on 09 Jan 2024 19:23
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@Star Trek Um, maybe a SNW movie where Picard meets Pike?
someguy3@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 00:03
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Did not expect that.
Potatisen@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 00:20
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I thought we had seen it all.
paddirn@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 00:31
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“Yes, and she’s scrabbling around to get them back on again, but even before she can get her knickers on, I’ve seen everything. Yeah. I’ve seen it all.”
ikilledlaurapalmer@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 01:34
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But I’ve seen everything anyway. And I get on my bike and I ride off. On the grass.
FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 00:48
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I’m OK with this, people shit on Star Trek Picard but I still thought it was alright despite the departure from more traditional Trek.
VerseAndVermin@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 00:52
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I watched the first season and liked it. The fan service didn’t feel so bad (I enjoyed it!). Season twos portrayal by half way through of an old enemy felt too casual to me and I tapped out. Is season 3 worth a whirl of two stopped me?
dmonzel@lemmy.ml
on 06 Jan 2024 01:01
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Season 3 is literally just fan service. They reused the V’Ger sound/theme for the enemy. They brought back a character from another show in the franchise. They brought back a character who appeared in two whole episodes of TNG. Large parts of the sound design were lifted from the TNG-era series. Seriously, almost as much fan service as Lower Decks.
chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 02:18
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Honestly with the train wreck that was Seasons 1 and 2, going full fan service was about the only path forward for the last season. I liked Season 3, but it certainly was NOT original.
As for Lower Decks…brah…how is Lower Decks fan service? There are references and stuff, but its got its own vibe now going on.
To be fair, I haven’t watched the latest season of LD, but up to that point, it really was “get this reference? See? Giant Spock’s skeleton! Remember this energy being that escaped the Enterprise-D?” However, I went into LD knowing that that was what I was going to be getting, and while I won’t say it’s my favorite nu-Trek series, I do really enjoy it.
chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 02:24
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It definitely has some inside jokery going on and references to other shows, but I’d argue it’s more organically done than just calling it “fan service”. It’s also a comedy SciFi, so I feel like it has more leeway than I’d give most shows, though.
The show has progressively become it’s own thing as each season progresses, though.
Oh I in no way meant it as an insult. I love that about LD. I did not love that about PIC.
FaceDeer@kbin.social
on 06 Jan 2024 05:55
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The reason I think Lower Decks does a fine job with its "fan service" is that none of those "get this reference? See?" moments matter. They're just stuff that's going on in the background, where an ordinary non-Lower-Decks Star Trek show would simply put a bunch of random meaningless gizmos or whatever to fill out the scene. The story that's being told in the foreground works perfectly well if you don't "get" any of the references. Often the story is enhanced by those references, but if you watch Lower Decks without any knowledge of the previous shows (aside presumably from a general gist of how shows like Star Trek work) you can still enjoy it.
The third season isn’t as good as 1 but its clear and away better than 2 by a huge margin and has some extremely fantastic emotional payoffs.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca
on 06 Jan 2024 02:25
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No. Please, no.
The Picard show was already dreadfully bad and has effectively destroyed TNG and Q for me, please let the dead body rest on piece, no more.
ringwraithfish@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 03:05
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Did you watch Season 3 of Picard?
acockworkorange@mander.xyz
on 06 Jan 2024 04:09
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It’s dreadful. Just gathering up the old cast for nostalgia sake. Quite an anticlimactic resolution to the enemy fight too.
ringwraithfish@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 05:20
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That’s fair. I enjoyed it, but I can see why you wouldn’t. Hopefully we can agree at least 3 was better than 1 & 2.
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip
on 06 Jan 2024 10:34
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In my opinion the first Picard season is the best. It actually tries something different; a new crew and ship and rules.
Season 2 is in that patronizing and lecturing tone that feels extra misplaced for anyone outside the United States.
Season 3 is complete creative sellout and I hate it. It was sort of nice to see them all again, but that’s pretty much it. Nostalgia bait everywhere, with a weird hamfisted plot. Barely a single original idea in that series, just a theme park ride to check all the boxes… look at the old crew on the bridge! Even data is back after we just let him die in season 1! Look at the E N T E R P R I S E, and we are fighting the borg PLUS the changelings!
acockworkorange@mander.xyz
on 06 Jan 2024 13:19
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I agree with you. I actually enjoyed the freshness of season 1.
Crankpork@beehaw.org
on 06 Jan 2024 04:54
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Season 3 worked because of the ensemble cast, though. The first two where it was “Picard and Friends” felt weird, and not like what anyone really wanted, and if this is another “Just Picard” thing it’s likely to end up the same.
ringwraithfish@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 05:19
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I agree. Picard Season 3 felt like it should have been the final TNG movie, but I’m actually glad it was episodic since it gave better pacing for gathering the cast together.
It was a lot of fam service, but in a good way imo
Oh man, I’d repressed the memory that Q was in s2 of Picard! I kind of liked the first season but the follow-ups were nostalgia dumpster fires. Literally what Sir PatStew said he didn’t want to make going into the show.
darkpanda@lemmy.ca
on 06 Jan 2024 02:41
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I prefer to think that Picard is just still stuck in the Nexus and everything that has happened to him since has been a result of magic Nexus fever dreams.
Movie Picard and PIC Picard acted nothing like TNG Picard to the point where they were seemingly completely different people. Movie Picard wanted to make the Borg pay for what they did and literally beat in dead Borg with his fists and snapped the Borg queen’s spine in two with his bare hands while TNG Picard knew things weren’t that cut and dry and even had an opportunity to potentially genocide the works of them and didn’t because ethics and shit. Movie Picard would have drove Hugh up to their doorstep infected with the fractal virus the first chance he had.
PIC Picard… is literally an android I guess? But still old? They kind of ignored that later. So, literally he isn’t the same Picard as TNG Picard.
The Nexus is my head canon.
themoken@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 22:36
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I… Don’t hate this. He meets Kirk too, which could be captain wish fulfillment. After his nephew is killed in such a stupid way he just exits reality and never returns.
First Contact, like you said, is revenge on the Borg and saving Earth.
Insurrection is then him inventing the perfect woman to save and finding the fountain of youth.
Nemesis he fights an evil, young version of himself, which has gotta be worth a few years of therapy.
cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 06 Jan 2024 02:58
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i will always love a new picard movie since i have memories of watching tng with my dad and i loved picard but i still want them to make star trek legacy
feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 06:41
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He’ll die before it happens. Don’t think people realise quite how old the guy is. I love him to bits but it’s like David Attenborough, just let the man rest, he’s given us enough.
c10l@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 13:46
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He’s 83. Definitely old but I wouldn’t write him off anytime soon.
feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 18:49
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Huh, I actually thought he was older than that. That’s reassuring.
Shhhh, the reaper has hopefully forgotten about these two and Morgan freeman.
spiderkle@lemmy.ca
on 06 Jan 2024 08:18
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S03 was the movie we never got, they just need to leave this one alone. It’s most likely being talked about because Picard S03 got the best ratings of all the new Trek shows. But it was already quite a perfect ending. We don’t need another Picard movie, Trek needs to continue on the small screen with #StarTrekLegacy.
ulkesh@beehaw.org
on 06 Jan 2024 08:40
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I think this is great and anything I can see Patrick Stewart in, I will. I don’t share the opinion that Picard series was bad. I don’t see Picard as a one-dimensional must always be the same character. People change over time. And Picard has also changed. Like it or not.
Bring on the movie!
7of9@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 08:50
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If this thread is anything to go by, me and my other half were the only people on the planet that actually enjoyed Picard S1 and 2, and didn’t like S3 as much.
In that spirit, if a film is made I look forward to enjoying it even if I’m the only one.
astroPug@hachyderm.io
on 06 Jan 2024 08:58
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I'll raise my hand and say that I actually enjoyed all three seasons. I felt like 1 and 2 had a sense of melancholy at times, but that was welcome. Kind of felt right at that time in my life. 3 I really liked for the interpersonal relationships, and that sense of wonder in space.
7of9@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 17:50
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Well, 1 and 2 both dealt with deep themes of grief and generational trauma … I appreciated that they tried to write a story with a deep meaning to it, even if it didn’t 100% work it was better than a lot of the recent things I’ve watched
astroPug@hachyderm.io
on 11 Jan 2024 20:31
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I was a kid when I first watched TNG reruns, and things seemed safe and optimistic to me. It was also the nature of television to almost reset characters from episode to episode, no matter how difficult or traumatic the previous episode was. (An exception would be the episode where Picard mends fences with his brother and begins facing the trauma of having been assimilated.)
And I think that was good tv in its own right.
1/2
astroPug@hachyderm.io
on 11 Jan 2024 20:37
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But Season 1 Picard took a different approach, and showed Picard dealing with past disillusionment (the loss of his career which was his purpose, et .) in a more long term manner. It wasn’t just gone. And to me, it made sense in the context of my own life. As I aged, I didn’t recover from past hurts quite as quickly either. But we work through it and grow, at any age, and I think that’s what Picard as a character did as well.
2/more
astroPug@hachyderm.io
on 11 Jan 2024 20:55
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He’s a different person at that age, definitely more careful, and he's aware that he doesn’t have all his former health, abilities or status - and that’s ok! He saves people, reconnects (and makes up) with old friends, and has a long-term relationship (maybe?). He’s doing pretty well!
Plus, he reminded Starfleet and the Federation a little of ideals.
All that, I found very hopeful and more effective as if neither Starfleet nor Picard had ever met failure.
Lol, sorry that was long!
7of9@startrek.website
on 12 Jan 2024 05:27
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Don’t be sorry for your reply being long, it was clearly well thought out and considered. I agree on all the points you’ve made … perhaps the majority of people here didn’t like Picard 1 & 2 because it wasn’t repeating the type of story telling that Star Trek has typically given, but was a whole new thing. People, generally, don’t like change and I think in the current world there’s comfort to be had in the “monster of the week” style 90s shows.
astroPug@hachyderm.io
on 14 Jan 2024 07:38
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Yes, I think so, too. Familiarity is comforting, and I also feel that episodic storytelling is comforting, because it’s reminiscent of my childhood, and because it introduces new, interesting concepts but sticks with a familiar structure. I just get value out of the other type of stories as well.
I am curious what they’ll do for a Picard movie - or a show of Seven and crew.
Fades@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 12:42
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I liked all 3, 3 being hit or miss but overall enjoyable for me. Season 2 had a lot of fun parts
7of9@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 17:43
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The thing I liked with 1 and 2 was that they both tried to tackle big ideas of past trauma, even if it didn’t come out well the big thinking was in there while a lot of recent things I’ve watched has felt skin deep at best
ursakhiin@beehaw.org
on 06 Jan 2024 14:35
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I enjoyed all 3 seasons of Picard. I’ll likely enjoy this movie. It’s always a joy to see Patrick Stewart in a dramatic role.
7of9@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 17:33
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Well, I’m glad it wasn’t just me, lol … I figured some people must have enjoyed it otherwise they’d have left it at one season!
Nacktmull@lemm.ee
on 05 Jan 2024 23:29
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pineapplelover@lemm.ee
on 07 Jan 2024 23:15
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It’s the one and only. You’re my hero, Picard.
johannes@lemmy.jhjacobs.nl
on 06 Jan 2024 13:14
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TBH, i never seem to like anything thats made after Voyager or Nemesis. And i understand it, the new movies and new series are made for a different (broader) audience, so it needs splendor and lots of shooting, but to me thats not what Star Trek was about.
Ive always hoped they’d make a serie with the USS Prometheus, but alas! I’ll just keep rewatching Voyager and DS9 untill i die, i guess.
Picard has its moments as well. It’s more valuable as a TNG revival than as a whole new ST work but it’s not bad, especially the last season.
Discovery is one of the worst sci-fi ever produced though, so definitely stay away from it.
graded6827@feddit.uk
on 06 Jan 2024 15:30
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Glad to see someone else hating on discovery, on the Star Trek subreddit everyone’s obsessed with it and I thought it was hot garbage
accideath@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 18:05
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I‘d say Discovery has its moments (aka those including Jason Isaacs or Anson Mount) but yea, the Series as a whole is rather bad with an annoying as fuck main character…
themoken@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 22:47
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All of the arguments I see for Discovery are based on representation and that’s literally the only thing the show got right. It’s like yeah, it’s great to have a diverse cast… I just wish they were on screen doing something good. Trek lives and dies in the writing, all the acting, effects, and out of universe concerns won’t save it from absolutely horrendous writing.
If they’d have done SNW style plots with DSC cast, it would have been amazing from the beginning.
bababooey@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 13:31
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Will skip this if it gets made. All good things for Picard really came to an end after that episode.
themoken@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 22:25
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This is First Contact erasure and I won’t stand for it.
simonzerafa@infosec.exchange
on 06 Jan 2024 22:29
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Unless this new movie is frankly outstanding it won't beat First Contact.
I do wish Paramount would concentrate on a Captain Seven series though 🙄🖖
themoken@startrek.website
on 06 Jan 2024 22:40
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Agreed wholeheartedly.
As some have mentioned, this could be a/another backdoor pilot for Legacy where Seven more or less takes the torch from Picard, similar to Picard taking it from Kirk in Generations - although that was obviously after TNG instead of before.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 Jan 2024 14:53
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I gave up watching Picard at the end of Season 1 after
spoiler
they kill Picard and replace him with an android.
If it’s not actually Jean-Luc, I’m not interested. And I’m definitely not interested in returning to Picard’s universe with all of those boring ass characters if it means that they’ll do another time-travel plotline to save his life. Yawn.
graded6827@feddit.uk
on 06 Jan 2024 15:29
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Season 1 and 2 sucked ass, but season 3 is actually pretty great and you can watch it as a stand alone without really needing to watch the previous 2 seasons.
shartedchocolate@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 16:37
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Season 1 was such absolute dog shit. The orbital defense flowers, “JL” etc… but yeah, S3 feels like Kurtzman got kicked in the sack and someone else made Picard. I recommend watching S3 and forgetting the other two were ever made.
Also in S1 Jean Luc Picard picked a bar fight. The person that had his dick dragged through a mile of broken glass getting killed by a Nossican over and over in a bar fight, went to pick a bar fight. What was that show?
Anticorp@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 23:20
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I strongly disagree. It had promise, but was ultimately very stupid. The entire show uses “Borg” as an excuse to explain away ridiculous concepts that are far-fetched and more akin to magic than technology.
xilliah@beehaw.org
on 08 Jan 2024 14:53
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I tried but it feels so shallow.
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@lemmy.ml
on 08 Jan 2024 20:23
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season three was passable at best. people only say it was good because the first two were so unbelievably dogshit
Anticorp@lemmy.world
on 06 Jan 2024 23:19
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Picard had a lot of promise, and they almost got it, but overall it was trash IMO. More Star Wars and hand waiving than Trek. It was a beautifully made universe, the SFX were superb, but they seemed to spent all their time and money on that, and none on dialogue or character consistency. Picard is nothing of his former self. He spends three seasons whining and complaining rather than commanding. The writers invent a traumatic backstory for him, depicting his authoritative personality as a character flaw as a result of trauma, rather than a strength of character. I rather disliked what they did to him.
nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca
on 07 Jan 2024 01:37
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Please just fucking retire TNG already. It’s time to move on. Give us that Seven show with a gay captain. I’d watch the hell out of that.
Corgana@startrek.website
on 07 Jan 2024 23:51
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My instinct is to agree with you but I also felt the same way when they announced Star Trek VI and that’s the best Trek film of all time.
skellener@kbin.social
on 09 Jan 2024 16:46
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Absolutely!
SteleTrovilo@beehaw.org
on 10 Jan 2024 18:33
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I have two reasons to not write this off:
Picard S2 would have been just fine as a 2-or-3-part episode, and not a 10-episode full season.
The first 4 episodes of Picard S3, watched together by themselves, become the second-best TNG movie (after First Contact of course).
If they were announcing Picard season 4 I’d just groan and ignore it. But I think the cast and crew could actually pull off a decent 1.5-2 hours of good entertainment.
simonzerafa@infosec.exchange
on 10 Jan 2024 18:43
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We really need the follow Captain Seven series. Episodic in a similar way to Strange New Worlds with the option for longer story arcs where needed 🙂🤷♂️
SteleTrovilo@beehaw.org
on 10 Jan 2024 20:09
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We basically need more Jeri Ryan, in any context. And “Crash” LaForge should be there, she was fun too. Just definitely don’t use the same writers from PIC.
threaded - newest
Picard was already bordering on elder abuse.
I think it might be self-inflicted. Patrick Stewart is big enough that he can make it so with regard to the scripts. He's the one that insisted there be a dune buggy chase scene in Nemesis, for example. And he's pushed for more action and romance in the movies. I suspect that this is another case of a good actor or writer who works best when tempered by outside control.
I don’t know that insistence is the right way to phrase it. Sir Patrick and Brent Spiner are good friends, IIRC Nemesis was written by Spiner’s old flatmate and best friend. As such the wants of the actors started creeping into the scripts, not out of insistence per se, but perhaps more out a natural affect of a close working relationship. Sometimes a healthy distance is most important between a writer’s room, and the cast.
Notably, that week was several weeks ago:
I hope this is his swan song. Patrick Stewart is amazing, and I love Captain Picard, but he’s not Harrison Ford. The franchise will be fine without him. We don’t need to play out Too Short a Season in real life
Three seasons of PIC were already a mistake. The only good thing coming from it is the possibility of a Riker cooking/baking show (which I would totally watch).
In rewatching the original series and TNG thereafter, the consistent factor, regardless of the early special effects, was the scripts. The dialogue was always great. In ST: Picard, the dialogue is trash.
Everything about ST Picard is trash. Dialogue, script, Character behavior, 50 years of fransche history ignored, it was all written and executed by people who don’t like star Trek, cast excluded though I just don’t understand why any of the vast was on board with this turd. We’re they so desperate for money?
it’s even worse than that they write characters that are not in the world of star trek but written like they are fans of the star trek. that might work for a comedy like lower decks but it stunts growth of the franchise.
since we can’t make new stories or ask new questions. They are just stuck in a circle of reference and the bare minimum of a story / scavenger hunt to get to those references. Terry Matalas has said this himself.
But hey at least we have unedited versions of the originals unlike star wars and I hope all the actors got big paydays in their golden years.
2 seasons were a mistake and by far the worst trek seasons from any show, the third season while being massive fan service was just what I seemingly wanted as I loved every second and was a great ending to the TNG crew
I just watch the third season and pretend all of the random references to the early seasons happened in a more logical way.
I knew somebody who was running a “what could have been” Star Trek TTRPG campaign based around episodes of Voyager that could have been executed better, I think I would love to run a campaign that had plot elements from Picard’s first two seasons as a personal headcanon.
The sitcom The Rikers as pitched by Sirtis and Frakes would have been better that the three seasons of Picard, frankly.
I think the difference between Stewart and Ford is that Stewart seems more to be doing it because he enjoys this character. Ford seems to be doing it in spite of his feelings.
As long as Stewart is still having fun, I’m happy with him continuing as long as he wants.
@Infynis Swan Song? So it will be a Musical Film?
Sorry, could not resist
@Star Trek Um, maybe a SNW movie where Picard meets Pike?
Did not expect that.
I thought we had seen it all.
“Yes, and she’s scrabbling around to get them back on again, but even before she can get her knickers on, I’ve seen everything. Yeah. I’ve seen it all.”
But I’ve seen everything anyway. And I get on my bike and I ride off. On the grass.
I’m OK with this, people shit on Star Trek Picard but I still thought it was alright despite the departure from more traditional Trek.
I watched the first season and liked it. The fan service didn’t feel so bad (I enjoyed it!). Season twos portrayal by half way through of an old enemy felt too casual to me and I tapped out. Is season 3 worth a whirl of two stopped me?
Season 3 is literally just fan service. They reused the V’Ger sound/theme for the enemy. They brought back a character from another show in the franchise. They brought back a character who appeared in two whole episodes of TNG. Large parts of the sound design were lifted from the TNG-era series. Seriously, almost as much fan service as Lower Decks.
Honestly with the train wreck that was Seasons 1 and 2, going full fan service was about the only path forward for the last season. I liked Season 3, but it certainly was NOT original.
As for Lower Decks…brah…how is Lower Decks fan service? There are references and stuff, but its got its own vibe now going on.
To be fair, I haven’t watched the latest season of LD, but up to that point, it really was “get this reference? See? Giant Spock’s skeleton! Remember this energy being that escaped the Enterprise-D?” However, I went into LD knowing that that was what I was going to be getting, and while I won’t say it’s my favorite nu-Trek series, I do really enjoy it.
It definitely has some inside jokery going on and references to other shows, but I’d argue it’s more organically done than just calling it “fan service”. It’s also a comedy SciFi, so I feel like it has more leeway than I’d give most shows, though.
The show has progressively become it’s own thing as each season progresses, though.
Oh I in no way meant it as an insult. I love that about LD. I did not love that about PIC.
The reason I think Lower Decks does a fine job with its "fan service" is that none of those "get this reference? See?" moments matter. They're just stuff that's going on in the background, where an ordinary non-Lower-Decks Star Trek show would simply put a bunch of random meaningless gizmos or whatever to fill out the scene. The story that's being told in the foreground works perfectly well if you don't "get" any of the references. Often the story is enhanced by those references, but if you watch Lower Decks without any knowledge of the previous shows (aside presumably from a general gist of how shows like Star Trek work) you can still enjoy it.
Exactly! Which is why I like LD, but not PIC S3.
The third season isn’t as good as 1 but its clear and away better than 2 by a huge margin and has some extremely fantastic emotional payoffs.
No. Please, no.
The Picard show was already dreadfully bad and has effectively destroyed TNG and Q for me, please let the dead body rest on piece, no more.
Did you watch Season 3 of Picard?
It’s dreadful. Just gathering up the old cast for nostalgia sake. Quite an anticlimactic resolution to the enemy fight too.
That’s fair. I enjoyed it, but I can see why you wouldn’t. Hopefully we can agree at least 3 was better than 1 & 2.
In my opinion the first Picard season is the best. It actually tries something different; a new crew and ship and rules.
Season 2 is in that patronizing and lecturing tone that feels extra misplaced for anyone outside the United States.
Season 3 is complete creative sellout and I hate it. It was sort of nice to see them all again, but that’s pretty much it. Nostalgia bait everywhere, with a weird hamfisted plot. Barely a single original idea in that series, just a theme park ride to check all the boxes… look at the old crew on the bridge! Even data is back after we just let him die in season 1! Look at the E N T E R P R I S E, and we are fighting the borg PLUS the changelings!
I agree with you. I actually enjoyed the freshness of season 1.
Season 3 worked because of the ensemble cast, though. The first two where it was “Picard and Friends” felt weird, and not like what anyone really wanted, and if this is another “Just Picard” thing it’s likely to end up the same.
I agree. Picard Season 3 felt like it should have been the final TNG movie, but I’m actually glad it was episodic since it gave better pacing for gathering the cast together.
It was a lot of fam service, but in a good way imo
Oh man, I’d repressed the memory that Q was in s2 of Picard! I kind of liked the first season but the follow-ups were nostalgia dumpster fires. Literally what Sir PatStew said he didn’t want to make going into the show.
I prefer to think that Picard is just still stuck in the Nexus and everything that has happened to him since has been a result of magic Nexus fever dreams.
Movie Picard and PIC Picard acted nothing like TNG Picard to the point where they were seemingly completely different people. Movie Picard wanted to make the Borg pay for what they did and literally beat in dead Borg with his fists and snapped the Borg queen’s spine in two with his bare hands while TNG Picard knew things weren’t that cut and dry and even had an opportunity to potentially genocide the works of them and didn’t because ethics and shit. Movie Picard would have drove Hugh up to their doorstep infected with the fractal virus the first chance he had.
PIC Picard… is literally an android I guess? But still old? They kind of ignored that later. So, literally he isn’t the same Picard as TNG Picard.
The Nexus is my head canon.
I… Don’t hate this. He meets Kirk too, which could be captain wish fulfillment. After his nephew is killed in such a stupid way he just exits reality and never returns.
First Contact, like you said, is revenge on the Borg and saving Earth.
Insurrection is then him inventing the perfect woman to save and finding the fountain of youth.
Nemesis he fights an evil, young version of himself, which has gotta be worth a few years of therapy.
i will always love a new picard movie since i have memories of watching tng with my dad and i loved picard but i still want them to make star trek legacy
He’ll die before it happens. Don’t think people realise quite how old the guy is. I love him to bits but it’s like David Attenborough, just let the man rest, he’s given us enough.
He’s 83. Definitely old but I wouldn’t write him off anytime soon.
Huh, I actually thought he was older than that. That’s reassuring.
Pretty sure he’s been 83 since the 1980s. I could be wrong though.
He’s not on contract. He wants to do Star Trek.
And I hope he continues.
Shhhh, the reaper has hopefully forgotten about these two and Morgan freeman.
S03 was the movie we never got, they just need to leave this one alone. It’s most likely being talked about because Picard S03 got the best ratings of all the new Trek shows. But it was already quite a perfect ending. We don’t need another Picard movie, Trek needs to continue on the small screen with #StarTrekLegacy.
I think this is great and anything I can see Patrick Stewart in, I will. I don’t share the opinion that Picard series was bad. I don’t see Picard as a one-dimensional must always be the same character. People change over time. And Picard has also changed. Like it or not.
Bring on the movie!
If this thread is anything to go by, me and my other half were the only people on the planet that actually enjoyed Picard S1 and 2, and didn’t like S3 as much.
In that spirit, if a film is made I look forward to enjoying it even if I’m the only one.
@7of9 @USSBurritoTruck
I'll raise my hand and say that I actually enjoyed all three seasons. I felt like 1 and 2 had a sense of melancholy at times, but that was welcome. Kind of felt right at that time in my life.
3 I really liked for the interpersonal relationships, and that sense of wonder in space.
Well, 1 and 2 both dealt with deep themes of grief and generational trauma … I appreciated that they tried to write a story with a deep meaning to it, even if it didn’t 100% work it was better than a lot of the recent things I’ve watched
@7of9
Yes, I found it resonated with me.
I was a kid when I first watched TNG reruns, and things seemed safe and optimistic to me. It was also the nature of television to almost reset characters from episode to episode, no matter how difficult or traumatic the previous episode was. (An exception would be the episode where Picard mends fences with his brother and begins facing the trauma of having been assimilated.)
And I think that was good tv in its own right.
1/2
@7of9
But Season 1 Picard took a different approach, and showed Picard dealing with past disillusionment (the loss of his career which was his purpose, et .) in a more long term manner. It wasn’t just gone. And to me, it made sense in the context of my own life. As I aged, I didn’t recover from past hurts quite as quickly either. But we work through it and grow, at any age, and I think that’s what Picard as a character did as well.
2/more
@7of9
He’s a different person at that age, definitely more careful, and he's aware that he doesn’t have all his former health, abilities or status - and that’s ok! He saves people, reconnects (and makes up) with old friends, and has a long-term relationship (maybe?). He’s doing pretty well!
Plus, he reminded Starfleet and the Federation a little of ideals.
All that, I found very hopeful and more effective as if neither Starfleet nor Picard had ever met failure.
Lol, sorry that was long!
Don’t be sorry for your reply being long, it was clearly well thought out and considered. I agree on all the points you’ve made … perhaps the majority of people here didn’t like Picard 1 & 2 because it wasn’t repeating the type of story telling that Star Trek has typically given, but was a whole new thing. People, generally, don’t like change and I think in the current world there’s comfort to be had in the “monster of the week” style 90s shows.
@7of9
Thank you.
Yes, I think so, too. Familiarity is comforting, and I also feel that episodic storytelling is comforting, because it’s reminiscent of my childhood, and because it introduces new, interesting concepts but sticks with a familiar structure. I just get value out of the other type of stories as well.
I am curious what they’ll do for a Picard movie - or a show of Seven and crew.
I liked all 3, 3 being hit or miss but overall enjoyable for me. Season 2 had a lot of fun parts
The thing I liked with 1 and 2 was that they both tried to tackle big ideas of past trauma, even if it didn’t come out well the big thinking was in there while a lot of recent things I’ve watched has felt skin deep at best
I enjoyed all 3 seasons of Picard. I’ll likely enjoy this movie. It’s always a joy to see Patrick Stewart in a dramatic role.
Well, I’m glad it wasn’t just me, lol … I figured some people must have enjoyed it otherwise they’d have left it at one season!
Yawn
You know they have to use the bridge a lot more than one single episode. It was always part of the plan.
@The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website
You’re back baby!
<img alt="" src="https://c.tenor.com/vvnB-IHC4FkAAAAC/tenor.gif">
It’s the one and only. You’re my hero, Picard.
TBH, i never seem to like anything thats made after Voyager or Nemesis. And i understand it, the new movies and new series are made for a different (broader) audience, so it needs splendor and lots of shooting, but to me thats not what Star Trek was about.
Ive always hoped they’d make a serie with the USS Prometheus, but alas! I’ll just keep rewatching Voyager and DS9 untill i die, i guess.
Strange New Worlds has been quite good tbh.
Picard has its moments as well. It’s more valuable as a TNG revival than as a whole new ST work but it’s not bad, especially the last season.
Discovery is one of the worst sci-fi ever produced though, so definitely stay away from it.
Glad to see someone else hating on discovery, on the Star Trek subreddit everyone’s obsessed with it and I thought it was hot garbage
I‘d say Discovery has its moments (aka those including Jason Isaacs or Anson Mount) but yea, the Series as a whole is rather bad with an annoying as fuck main character…
All of the arguments I see for Discovery are based on representation and that’s literally the only thing the show got right. It’s like yeah, it’s great to have a diverse cast… I just wish they were on screen doing something good. Trek lives and dies in the writing, all the acting, effects, and out of universe concerns won’t save it from absolutely horrendous writing.
If they’d have done SNW style plots with DSC cast, it would have been amazing from the beginning.
Will skip this if it gets made. All good things for Picard really came to an end after that episode.
This is First Contact erasure and I won’t stand for it.
@themoken @bababooey
Unless this new movie is frankly outstanding it won't beat First Contact.
I do wish Paramount would concentrate on a Captain Seven series though 🙄🖖
Agreed wholeheartedly.
As some have mentioned, this could be a/another backdoor pilot for Legacy where Seven more or less takes the torch from Picard, similar to Picard taking it from Kirk in Generations - although that was obviously after TNG instead of before.
I gave up watching Picard at the end of Season 1 after
spoiler
they kill Picard and replace him with an android.
If it’s not actually Jean-Luc, I’m not interested. And I’m definitely not interested in returning to Picard’s universe with all of those boring ass characters if it means that they’ll do another time-travel plotline to save his life. Yawn.
Season 1 and 2 sucked ass, but season 3 is actually pretty great and you can watch it as a stand alone without really needing to watch the previous 2 seasons.
Season 1 was such absolute dog shit. The orbital defense flowers, “JL” etc… but yeah, S3 feels like Kurtzman got kicked in the sack and someone else made Picard. I recommend watching S3 and forgetting the other two were ever made.
Also in S1 Jean Luc Picard picked a bar fight. The person that had his dick dragged through a mile of broken glass getting killed by a Nossican over and over in a bar fight, went to pick a bar fight. What was that show?
I strongly disagree. It had promise, but was ultimately very stupid. The entire show uses “Borg” as an excuse to explain away ridiculous concepts that are far-fetched and more akin to magic than technology.
I tried but it feels so shallow.
season three was passable at best. people only say it was good because the first two were so unbelievably dogshit
Picard had a lot of promise, and they almost got it, but overall it was trash IMO. More Star Wars and hand waiving than Trek. It was a beautifully made universe, the SFX were superb, but they seemed to spent all their time and money on that, and none on dialogue or character consistency. Picard is nothing of his former self. He spends three seasons whining and complaining rather than commanding. The writers invent a traumatic backstory for him, depicting his authoritative personality as a character flaw as a result of trauma, rather than a strength of character. I rather disliked what they did to him.
Season 2 was arguably worse.
Please just fucking retire TNG already. It’s time to move on. Give us that Seven show with a gay captain. I’d watch the hell out of that.
My instinct is to agree with you but I also felt the same way when they announced Star Trek VI and that’s the best Trek film of all time.
Absolutely!
I have two reasons to not write this off:
If they were announcing Picard season 4 I’d just groan and ignore it. But I think the cast and crew could actually pull off a decent 1.5-2 hours of good entertainment.
@SteleTrovilo @USSBurritoTruck
We really need the follow Captain Seven series. Episodic in a similar way to Strange New Worlds with the option for longer story arcs where needed 🙂🤷♂️
We basically need more Jeri Ryan, in any context. And “Crash” LaForge should be there, she was fun too. Just definitely don’t use the same writers from PIC.