What is Firefox supposed to do? (www.spacebar.news)
from corbin@infosec.pub to technology@beehaw.org on 23 Jul 2024 15:10
https://infosec.pub/post/15275824

#technology

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Sina@beehaw.org on 23 Jul 2024 16:39 next collapse

Mozilla, please refocus the resources to improve performance, or let FF disappear!

This whole thing with the private data collection is meaningless, if the browser is increasingly niche.

dan@upvote.au on 23 Jul 2024 17:01 next collapse

What performance issues do you have with Fx? I use it daily and don’t really feel like it’s slower than Chrome.

vii@lemmy.ml on 23 Jul 2024 18:22 collapse

Unfortunately, Firefox is not as efficient as Chrome. On a battery powered devices this matters. Also it doesn’t have a native dark mode for web content.
I’m this close to jumping the ship.

dan@upvote.au on 23 Jul 2024 19:16 next collapse

Ahh, I see. I’m usually on desktop PCs and use solar power at home, so the efficiency is less of a concern.

AFAIK the “auto dark mode” in Chrome is experimental and doesn’t work well on all sites. Have you tried Dark Reader on Firefox? More and more sites are adding native dark mode, too.

Cube6392@beehaw.org on 23 Jul 2024 21:00 next collapse

Were having radically different experiences. Firefox consumes way less power than chrome on all my machines

derbis@beehaw.org on 25 Jul 2024 02:20 next collapse

Ditto

Sina@beehaw.org on 26 Jul 2024 13:38 collapse

Chrome needs to be reinstalled every once in a while for some reason, or it will underperform.

Cube6392@beehaw.org on 26 Jul 2024 13:57 collapse

It drains battery on fresh installs for me. I just don’t bother. I don’t really see the appeal of chrome tbh. Obviously I have to use it occasionally since google content locks shit and so do employers, but there’s like… No real reason I’d use it as a daily driver. For my use cases and hardware its just plain worse

theangriestbird@beehaw.org on 24 Jul 2024 01:16 collapse

Firefox is the only mobile browser I am aware of that allows extensions (including adblockers), and this let’s the user add functionality like having dark mode everywhere, even on sites that normally wouldn’t allow it.

tyler@programming.dev on 23 Jul 2024 17:12 next collapse

Performance? FF is faster than chrome. What are you talking about.

corbin@infosec.pub on 23 Jul 2024 18:26 collapse

Firefox is faster than Chromium in many benchmarks, depending on the OS: arewefastyet.com/win10/benchmarks/overview?numDay…

CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org on 24 Jul 2024 03:40 next collapse

Thank you for the hard numbers.

anachronist@midwest.social on 24 Jul 2024 13:45 collapse

My experience is that Firefox often has problems on Google-owned properties. Either performance/responsiveness or functionality just not working. Why this would be is left as an exercise for the reader.

tyler@programming.dev on 23 Jul 2024 17:12 next collapse

I do know that Mozilla’s Privacy Preserving Attribution is not something you should worry about. I also know if someone calls it the “enshitification of Firefox” or the work of an “anti-privacy, pro-advertising cabal,” they’re either ignorant or simply looking for rage bait clicks from angry Linux users.

Yup

ahal@lemmy.ca on 23 Jul 2024 20:19 next collapse

This is the best take I’ve seen on the whole kerfuffle so far.

modulus@lemmy.ml on 23 Jul 2024 21:18 next collapse

The usual pro-advertising take. “It’s ok that we’re going to experiment without your consent on how to manipulate you, because we only use aggregated data so it’s not personal, it’s business.”

theangriestbird@beehaw.org on 24 Jul 2024 01:19 collapse

Let’s say Firefox went full privacy absolutist, with all tracking and advertising networks blocked by default. That would probably be the best user experience initially, but websites wouldn’t make any money from visitors outside of subscriptions, direct donations, or (if they can sell them) direct advertising. It would probably just encourage more sites to stop supporting Firefox completely, which is already enough of a problem that Mozilla maintains a list of hacks to make sites work properly in Firefox. Mozilla removing all analytics from Firefox itself would also make fixing bugs and prioritizing development more difficult.

Idk my read is that every browser has to do this a little bit, or else websites will stop devoting resources to supporting that browser. Firefox’s solution seems pretty reasonable when you take that into consideration. And Firefox still isn’t trying to stop you from installing 20 privacy add-ons and nuking anything that even whiffs of an ad.

modulus@lemmy.ml on 24 Jul 2024 06:36 collapse

It’s possible FF wouldn’t get away with something like integrating ad blocking by default, but in no reasonable universe were they required to do the PPA stuff and turn it on by default. Nor is it clear that it will lead to websites caring about FF compatibility–unfortunately many already don’t.

FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org on 23 Jul 2024 22:34 next collapse

I dunno.

I’m kind of enjoying watching Firefox users have to eat a little crow, since they troll the shit out of me every time I talk about Brave.

LukeZaz@beehaw.org on 24 Jul 2024 16:14 collapse

This really doesn’t make Brave look any better though, seeing as it has its own version of “privacy-focused” attention-monetization schemes (Basic Attention Tokens) and its own fair share of controversies. Not to mention being Chromium under the hood and being developed by a company headed by Brandon Eich of all people — a massive homophobe.

None of which make Firefox impeccable or ever did. But all of which made Brave decidedly worse to me, including after this all happened.

TemporalSoup@beehaw.org on 24 Jul 2024 03:14 next collapse

I don’t remember who I heard say it, but someone said Mozilla should have built a privacy-first Google ecosystem alternative similar to what Proton are doing, which could have allowed them to actually make some money outside of their Google search bribe money.

But it’s too late for that now I guess :(

Ilandar@aussie.zone on 24 Jul 2024 04:33 collapse

Interestingly, the most voted for new service by Proton users in the 2024 community survey was a privacy-focused web browser. I wonder if we will see Proton move into that space soon.

MayonnaiseArch@beehaw.org on 24 Jul 2024 09:32 next collapse

Wait was it privacy or was it having an intrusive “ai” bullshit thing? I can’t remember exactly Jokes aside, proton is not something we should look up to. Blender is a great example of a thing where various people contribute and somehow nobody needs to suck off facebook, the thing works and is getting better, usually listens to their community, there is no bullshit corporate structure and a ceo that needs his parachute gilded etc

Ilandar@aussie.zone on 24 Jul 2024 09:57 collapse

The private AI writing assistant is a feature recently announced for Proton Mail. A browser would be an entirely new service.

MayonnaiseArch@beehaw.org on 24 Jul 2024 10:29 collapse

Yeah, but we’re talking trust here. Why should they do privacy if they already give your data to some llm thing?

Ilandar@aussie.zone on 24 Jul 2024 15:05 collapse

Did you even bother to read about how it works or did you just skip straight to the hysteria? Proton Scribe runs locally on the device and it does not use your inputs for training. No data is sent to the cloud or third-parties.

LunarLoony@lemmy.sdf.org on 24 Jul 2024 20:30 next collapse

Unless you’re using a non-Chromium browser, that is.

Ilandar@aussie.zone on 25 Jul 2024 02:34 collapse

In which case it runs on no-log servers. Support is coming for other browsers and the Proton Mail desktop app is already supported on macOS. Of course, all of this ignores the even greater point that this is an entirely optional feature that no one has to use. Personally I will be ignoring it completely.

MayonnaiseArch@beehaw.org on 24 Jul 2024 23:07 collapse

No, the point is in having a for profit org and something like the blender foundation. It’s about trust, not just the crappy llm thing, about the thing where they say everybody wants this

TemporalSoup@beehaw.org on 25 Jul 2024 02:49 collapse

Proton do appear to be trying to resolve some of the issues that come with being a for-profit company?

Proton is transitioning towards a non-profit structure

MayonnaiseArch@beehaw.org on 25 Jul 2024 07:58 collapse

It’s one of those things where you talk about them once they are done. I’m transitioning to quitting smoking

cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Jul 2024 04:00 collapse

you cannot be privacy focused while being a for profit corporation

sunbeam60@lemmy.one on 25 Jul 2024 06:08 next collapse

Come again?

june@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Jul 2024 06:31 collapse

Good thing Proton is a nonprofit then 😊

[deleted] on 24 Jul 2024 04:13 collapse

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hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org on 24 Jul 2024 04:55 next collapse

  1. PPA doesn’t make Mozilla money.
  2. Firefox is developed by Mozilla Corp, which can’t take donations. Mozilla Foundation does do fundraising drives, but that’s mostly for their public advocacy (which, ironically, may be where the idea for PPA originated).
  3. PPA has a checkbox in about:preferences.
[deleted] on 24 Jul 2024 05:09 collapse

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hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org on 24 Jul 2024 05:26 collapse

The support article explains the rationale.

Unchecked by default would render the experiment useless.

mindyabeesnes@beehaw.org on 25 Jul 2024 17:07 collapse

PPA/Personal Pan Pizza Privacy

Mmmm digital personal pan pizza 🤤