lurch@sh.itjust.works
on 15 Sep 06:59
nextcollapse
Danish Minister of Justice and chief architect of the current Chat Control proposal, Peter Hummelgaard
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de
on 15 Sep 11:07
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apparently nominally a member of a social-democratic party
When I was younger, I believed that social-democratic parties were better than conservative ones on matters of civil liberties. I stand corrected on that.
This is why it’s so important to vote based on policy, not party names or “teams”. Parties can name themselves whatever they want (within reason) and they evolve and change as well. Canada right now is a good example. The current Liberal party is basically the Conservative party of the 90s. Just look at policy and leave the brand out of it.
Never forget, North Korea calls itself The Democratic Republic of North Korea. The Nazis were called The National Socialist German Worker’s Party. Words have meaning, even when they don’t.
The capitalist counties have proven that surveillance and censorship is more effective when you make it so subtle that a majority of their citizens are unaware that it’s happening.
As a dane: The social democratic party in Denmark has changed a lot in the last 10-20 years. It used to be much more left-leaning. Nowadays it’s essentially a middle party. They adopted quite a few policies from the right wing (especially on the immigration area), in an attempt to keep the power basically, and it has worked immensely well, in the sense that many, many people have voted for them.
He’s just a misguided social democrat. Unfortunately social democracy in Scandinavia got caught in the ratchet mechanism and is now straying further from the light every year, wondering why their former voters feel betrayed.
the word's not useless, it's just that its meaning has evolved to encompass pretty much all authoritarianism, rather than just a specific subset of it.
The consequence of Chat conttrol is a next step to open and control your post cards and any other privat correspondence with the same stupid argument of “security”.
Encrypted comunication exist for a good reason.
All of the west has had conservative aristocrats take over their mainstream parties, the only reform vote is the far right misdirecting anger from the plutocracy to immigrants and everything else.
Without getting a popular reform option fascists will seize the entire west with russia and the us helping behind the scenes, and fix elections like in hungary or however and we will not be able to get rid of them even as they get worse every cycle.
The western european countries will fall like dominoes with current leadership and lack thereof. We need to organize first, then find and groom real leaders, then take elections and direct anger to it’s sources, the super rich.
Some context, which I’m sure will be downvoted because we don’t like chat control.
The Danes currently hold the rotating presidency for the council. As such they are required to be the architects of the council position, good initiatives and bad.
The EU holds countries that are against government access to chat services and countries that believe access should be routine and warrant-free.
The Danish “architect of chat control” is thus required, by EU law, to define a compromise position and see if that can be voted through in the council.
The compromise position is a combination of “scanning at source” using both known fingerprints and AI, with a warrant based access process for police sources.
As a compromise position that’s possible passable in parliament and council.
I personally think the whole thing the entire thing is unworkable in practice. But the Danes are getting involved because they have to.
herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml
on 15 Sep 17:35
nextcollapse
He doesn’t have to go to the press with authoritarian statements defending chat control. This is what he said:
“We must break with the totally erroneous perception that it is everyone’s civil liberty to communicate on encrypted messaging services.”
This is Putin-style authoritarianism coming from Peter Hummelgaard.
The problem is that they don’t have to prevent encryption at all…
Many governments are already recording and storing incredible amounts of your Internet traffic.
With this new legislation they want to require all companies, that offer some form of encrypted communication, to submit all the messages for scanning before they are encrypted. So they want to force Facebook and many others to actually intercept the messages before they get “end-to-end” encrypted, so they can get scanned by AI and other systems to look for CSAM.
Of course they can’t prevent encryption… Anyone can get some encryption software that doesn’t submit the messages to scanning before encrypting…
Now you as a person have the options of either using a platform that scans your messages, or finding something that actually offers privacy.
If the government then decides that they want to investigate you, then they just dig into their trove of intercepted messages. If you only used scanned services, then they can see all your messages and probably find something in them to prosecute you over. But if you used any encrypted services they don’t have access to, then they can just start prosecuting you for using encryption that they can’t spy on…
In either case you lose, and they gain the ability to practically put anyone they want behind bars.
And who knows who will wield these tools at a later point, and what they might decide should be illegal, which they can then immediately dig for in all their previously stored and scanned messages.
Yeah the criminals will quickly find ways to avoid using services that scan client side is my main issue.
I’m technical enough that I can too if the time ever comes. I’m in the “nothing criminal to hide, but fuck you you’re not seeing my texts anyway” camp.
And who knows who will wield these tools at a later point
History is so, so full of examples of this being abused by what were originally well intentioned motives (Jews in The Netherlands rounded up because of census information etc.). I just do not trust any future government and neither should anyone else.
They’ve had the rotating presidency for 2 months, Hummelgaard has been mad that police can’t see what immigrant teenagers are talking about on Whatsapp for years.
redchert@lemmygrad.ml
on 15 Sep 18:46
nextcollapse
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
on 16 Sep 10:07
nextcollapse
Hi fascist! I’m guillotine!
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online
on 16 Sep 10:25
nextcollapse
Why do people not realize how unacceptable all that shit is?
I mean imagine in the old days before email someone said that they wanted to open all mail packages and examine the contents as well as make a copy of all letters sent, personal or professional, that were sent through the mail? People would have been right outraged. Is it that because somehow posting things on a cell phone or computer makes them feel… less real?
Also every fucking time I see shit like this I am reminded of an old comic from Mad Magazine… it featured a young office boy talking to the sleazy manager. He says ‘hey, I heard you started out just like me, and now you’re practically running the whole company, can you give me some advice?’
And he responds ‘well, for starters… make sure you read EVERYONES personal letters.’
I was a young kid when I first saw it and I didn’t understand. But now I fucking do.
How would he like for his messages to be surveilled? The people pushing chat control conveniently leave out the detail that they decided to exempt themselves from this measure.
threaded - newest
apparently nominally a member of a social-democratic party
When I was younger, I believed that social-democratic parties were better than conservative ones on matters of civil liberties. I stand corrected on that.
It’s more like people in power don’t like civil liberties.
This is why it’s so important to vote based on policy, not party names or “teams”. Parties can name themselves whatever they want (within reason) and they evolve and change as well. Canada right now is a good example. The current Liberal party is basically the Conservative party of the 90s. Just look at policy and leave the brand out of it.
Never forget, North Korea calls itself The Democratic Republic of North Korea. The Nazis were called The National Socialist German Worker’s Party. Words have meaning, even when they don’t.
Just because the guy is a fucktard, doesnt mean the party is. And the other way around.
Politics is not a “team sport” and we should not treat it like that.
Parties choose whom to nominate as ministers.
I’m not a voter in Denmark and not familiar with Danish politics; this kind of thing would certainly cause me to vote for a different party.
Yeah, I think I swayed too much into a general critic of a way of thinking about politics.
I still agree with you, when it’s a minister.
It’s also worth to note that his party, even though their name, is a middle party now and no longer left.
There are plenty of parties better for the people than them right now.
SocDem is still capitalist. Capitalist politicians answer to capital.
Yep. If you want to escape from surveillance and censorship, you’ve got to go to a communist country.
Where would that be?
I was being sarcastic.
The capitalist counties have proven that surveillance and censorship is more effective when you make it so subtle that a majority of their citizens are unaware that it’s happening.
You forgot the /s
I guess, some people are deluded with communism.
Social democracy is the left wing of fascism
What a stupid take.
As a dane: The social democratic party in Denmark has changed a lot in the last 10-20 years. It used to be much more left-leaning. Nowadays it’s essentially a middle party. They adopted quite a few policies from the right wing (especially on the immigration area), in an attempt to keep the power basically, and it has worked immensely well, in the sense that many, many people have voted for them.
He may be an asshole, but calling everyone you don’t like a fascist is just going to make the word useless
Unfortunately people here are mostly incapable of having nuance.
Oh, the irony!
He’s just a misguided social democrat. Unfortunately social democracy in Scandinavia got caught in the ratchet mechanism and is now straying further from the light every year, wondering why their former voters feel betrayed.
Misguided? Why are liberals always treated with kid gloves? Calling this guy a fascist does not seem out of bounds at all based on his policies.
He may be a fascist, but calling everyone you don’t like an asshole is just going to make the word useless
the word's not useless, it's just that its meaning has evolved to encompass pretty much all authoritarianism, rather than just a specific subset of it.
Yeah, and we have the word authoritarianism for that
Fascist is as fascist does
There you go, I’m Italian so my definition of fascism is Umberto Eco’s, seems like this guy falls short a bit, we can use other words.
mrrrrreow meow :3
What if I go into politics and start mrrreow meow :3 in EU parliament?
A vtuber catfolk politician? Might as well try it.
Yay meow meow
Alternate title: Danish dipshit fails basic computer literacy test, somehow stumbles into a parliament position.
Also, if he’s the chief architect, then this is what he’s building:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d8d7232d-6bc4-4ba7-adbd-91d202fcaec2.jpeg">
That just needs one CSS attribute to fix
Ahh CSS! how I fucking…
.house { margin-left: -5000px; }Headline: careless website admin leaves dozens of families homeless, can’t find house.
The consequence of Chat conttrol is a next step to open and control your post cards and any other privat correspondence with the same stupid argument of “security”. Encrypted comunication exist for a good reason.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/c8231533-85d0-44c3-91de-22b31abd6b66.png">
All of the west has had conservative aristocrats take over their mainstream parties, the only reform vote is the far right misdirecting anger from the plutocracy to immigrants and everything else.
Without getting a popular reform option fascists will seize the entire west with russia and the us helping behind the scenes, and fix elections like in hungary or however and we will not be able to get rid of them even as they get worse every cycle.
The western european countries will fall like dominoes with current leadership and lack thereof. We need to organize first, then find and groom real leaders, then take elections and direct anger to it’s sources, the super rich.
"What’s with Denmark going MAGA-level? Here we go!”
Site doesn’t load
Some context, which I’m sure will be downvoted because we don’t like chat control.
The Danes currently hold the rotating presidency for the council. As such they are required to be the architects of the council position, good initiatives and bad.
The EU holds countries that are against government access to chat services and countries that believe access should be routine and warrant-free.
The Danish “architect of chat control” is thus required, by EU law, to define a compromise position and see if that can be voted through in the council.
The compromise position is a combination of “scanning at source” using both known fingerprints and AI, with a warrant based access process for police sources.
As a compromise position that’s possible passable in parliament and council.
I personally think the whole thing the entire thing is unworkable in practice. But the Danes are getting involved because they have to.
He doesn’t have to go to the press with authoritarian statements defending chat control. This is what he said:
“We must break with the totally erroneous perception that it is everyone’s civil liberty to communicate on encrypted messaging services.”
This is Putin-style authoritarianism coming from Peter Hummelgaard.
How in the name of fuck anyone thinks they can prevent encryption is beyond me. That ship sailed 30 years ago. People who want it will find a way.
The problem is that they don’t have to prevent encryption at all…
Many governments are already recording and storing incredible amounts of your Internet traffic.
With this new legislation they want to require all companies, that offer some form of encrypted communication, to submit all the messages for scanning before they are encrypted. So they want to force Facebook and many others to actually intercept the messages before they get “end-to-end” encrypted, so they can get scanned by AI and other systems to look for CSAM.
Of course they can’t prevent encryption… Anyone can get some encryption software that doesn’t submit the messages to scanning before encrypting…
Now you as a person have the options of either using a platform that scans your messages, or finding something that actually offers privacy.
If the government then decides that they want to investigate you, then they just dig into their trove of intercepted messages. If you only used scanned services, then they can see all your messages and probably find something in them to prosecute you over. But if you used any encrypted services they don’t have access to, then they can just start prosecuting you for using encryption that they can’t spy on…
In either case you lose, and they gain the ability to practically put anyone they want behind bars.
And who knows who will wield these tools at a later point, and what they might decide should be illegal, which they can then immediately dig for in all their previously stored and scanned messages.
Yeah the criminals will quickly find ways to avoid using services that scan client side is my main issue.
I’m technical enough that I can too if the time ever comes. I’m in the “nothing criminal to hide, but fuck you you’re not seeing my texts anyway” camp.
History is so, so full of examples of this being abused by what were originally well intentioned motives (Jews in The Netherlands rounded up because of census information etc.). I just do not trust any future government and neither should anyone else.
Yeah what’s next, microphones that listen to everything we say?
East Berlin and the STASI remembers.
They’ve had the rotating presidency for 2 months, Hummelgaard has been mad that police can’t see what immigrant teenagers are talking about on Whatsapp for years.
Hummel means bumblebee
.
Just to be safe I want everyone to know that if this guy gets shot I would be reaally sad.
I’m sure there is somebody out there who thinks this guy is not fascist enough! This is all so absurd.
.
Hi fascist! I’m guillotine!
Why do people not realize how unacceptable all that shit is?
I mean imagine in the old days before email someone said that they wanted to open all mail packages and examine the contents as well as make a copy of all letters sent, personal or professional, that were sent through the mail? People would have been right outraged. Is it that because somehow posting things on a cell phone or computer makes them feel… less real?
Also every fucking time I see shit like this I am reminded of an old comic from Mad Magazine… it featured a young office boy talking to the sleazy manager. He says ‘hey, I heard you started out just like me, and now you’re practically running the whole company, can you give me some advice?’
And he responds ‘well, for starters… make sure you read EVERYONES personal letters.’
I was a young kid when I first saw it and I didn’t understand. But now I fucking do.
Going through someone else’s mail upset people so much, they made it a felony. 😮
I miss the times when fascists were beaten with rocks.
Those are too quick
“you can’t savor all the … Little emotions” - The Dark Knight
It’s literal fucking TrollTrace from South Park…
How would he like for his messages to be surveilled? The people pushing chat control conveniently leave out the detail that they decided to exempt themselves from this measure.
If he ever needs a new job, the NSA will be happy to hire him.