First sodium-ion battery storage station at grid level opens with cells that can be charged in 12 minutes (www.notebookcheck.net)
from schizoidman@lemmy.ml to technology@lemmy.ml on 13 May 2024 13:24
https://lemmy.ml/post/15589428

#technology

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mipadaitu@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 13:45 next collapse

Wonder if there’s a trade off with the faster charging, or if it’s just a side effect of the grid power setup.

blazera@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 13:57 next collapse

Time until full charge isnt really a relevant metric for utility storage, you want larger storage, which would increase full charge time. Rate of charge is what matters.

0110010001100010@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 14:02 next collapse

210 Ah cells to 90% in 12 minutes.

Assuming I can math early on a Monday morning:

90% of 210 is 189

189 / 12 is 15.75

So they charge at 15.75 an Ah per minute. Not sure how that compares honestly.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 May 2024 15:24 next collapse

The C rating is generally what battery charging (and discharging) is measured in. C being the capacity of the pack. So if the pack is 10 Ah and it takes 10 hours to charge it’s 1c, if it takes 1 hour to charge then it’s 10c.

I found this high current battery pack that’s rated for 30c. lipobattery.us/high-discharge-lithium-ion-battery…

I don’t feel like doing the math for this battery pack.

pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online on 13 May 2024 15:49 next collapse

The C rating is for discharging only.

BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca on 13 May 2024 16:27 collapse

The C rating can absolutely still be used when talking about recharging, it’s just usually less relevant.

pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online on 13 May 2024 18:11 collapse

No. The C rating is a cell’s maximum discharge rate without damaging the cell.

You absolutely can’t charge that 30C battery at 30A

cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de on 13 May 2024 19:02 collapse

Batteries have separate C ratings for charge and discharge.

Cort@lemmy.world on 14 May 2024 16:57 next collapse

So like 4-5c roughly if the 90-100% charge rate is similar to the 0-90%. Way lower than some of the lithium cells I’ve seen at 30+c

B0rax@feddit.de on 18 May 2024 17:06 collapse

You are not completely right. 1 C means it can (theoretically) be charged in 1h. Regardless of the capacity.

10 C means it can be charged in 1/10th of an hour.

To get the maximum current, multiply the capacity by the C rating.

[deleted] on 13 May 2024 15:41 collapse

.

ChicoSuave@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 15:31 next collapse

They’re brand new and the writer needs a number to look impressive.

delirious_owl@discuss.online on 13 May 2024 17:42 next collapse

And last decades

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 14 May 2024 10:45 collapse

but that catched my attention for EVs.

delirious_owl@discuss.online on 13 May 2024 17:42 next collapse

How many decades do they last before needing replacement?

Valmond@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 22:06 next collapse

I have read encouraging numbers about charge cycles for sodium batteries, I’m quite curious too about real values.

zik@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 23:24 collapse

They’re meant to survive an order of magnitude more cycles than Li-ion. But I’m containing my enthusiasm until we see them lasting a long time in real life use.

delirious_owl@discuss.online on 14 May 2024 05:39 collapse

Lithium isn’t used for grid batteries because weight doesn’t matter. Grid batteries with lead acid last 3 decades. Does this one last longer?

the_third@feddit.de on 14 May 2024 06:26 next collapse

Lead acid is pretty inefficient though, something like 80% iirc.

delirious_owl@discuss.online on 14 May 2024 07:12 collapse

Again, that doesn’t matter since the battery doesn’t move. This is a grid battery

the_third@feddit.de on 14 May 2024 07:44 next collapse

Of course it’s relevant. My LiFePos reach about 92% efficiency. Losing 12% of energy in the storage process or not losing them is a big difference.

Allero@lemmy.today on 14 May 2024 08:15 collapse

The question is then whether it’s cheaper to buy LiFePos instead of lead acid or to install more solar panels.

the_third@feddit.de on 14 May 2024 08:23 collapse

Yep. But also you need to run lead acid in a smaller charge window so you need more of them and when running out of space more panels might not be feasible - many variables in the whole thing, I don’t think there’s a universal answer, one can’t really get around setting up a small spreadsheet.

Allero@lemmy.today on 14 May 2024 09:32 collapse

Agreed - it’s not that there are no space constraints at all.

capital@lemmy.world on 15 May 2024 21:09 collapse

You’re thinking of density. Efficiency certainly matters.

zik@lemmy.world on 14 May 2024 09:56 collapse

Lithium is used in grid storage:

And that’s just what I could find in a couple of minutes.

pingveno@lemmy.ml on 13 May 2024 18:05 collapse

I’m curious what the temperature resiliency is for sodium-ion batteries. I had a power outage recently where I was relying on a lithium-ion battery. As the temperature in the house plunged, it because so inefficient that charging a single phone overnight drained a quarter of the battery.

johnyma22@lemmy.ml on 13 May 2024 18:24 next collapse

<img alt="Li-Ion for reference" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/24368a47-0e2f-4dca-ba7d-2660a9a823ed.jpeg">

Source: batteryuniversity.com/…/bu-502-discharging-at-hig…

I don’t have any data on sodium-ion.

pingveno@lemmy.ml on 13 May 2024 18:45 collapse

It was slightly above freezing in the house, so definitely not operating at peak efficiency. From a brief search, it looks like sodium-ion does have a similar temperature sensitivity, though it may be to a different degree.

LowtierComputer@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 18:51 next collapse

What size? That sounds like a little 2000mah power bank.

pingveno@lemmy.ml on 13 May 2024 21:00 collapse

That’s the thing, it wasn’t. It’s an Ecoflow Delta Power Station, We tested boiling 1.5 liters of water off it and it used 15% of the capacity. Meanwhile, charging the phone overnight drained 30%.

Valmond@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 22:03 next collapse

That doesn’t seem normal. Did you like use the phone all night otherwise it should charge up quickly and then not use any noticeable energy.

pingveno@lemmy.ml on 13 May 2024 23:08 collapse

You would think, but we went directly to bed with as many blankets and coats as we could find. Just plug it in and let it charge. The phone has a maximum power draw of maybe 20W when speed charging. Not exactly boiling water.

ripcord@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 22:15 collapse

I need to do some more formal testing, but I’ve found the discharge rate of my ecoflow to be baffling compared to my Jackery or a big Bluetti I have. My experience has been similar to yours.

Which has surprised me because in general I’ve only heard good things about them.

pingveno@lemmy.ml on 13 May 2024 23:06 collapse

Did you find it was connected to temperature or other drop offs in capacity?

schizoidman@lemmy.ml on 13 May 2024 23:28 next collapse

If I’m not mistaken, those portable power stations with AC inverters consume power even when not in use. You probably should use the DC output wherever possible.

pingveno@lemmy.ml on 13 May 2024 23:45 collapse

It has outputs through USB-A, USB-C, AC, and DC-vehicle (whatever it’s called). I think the AC inverter was off, though I had been using it earlier. I was definitely charging fully through the USB-C output. Good point, though.

zik@lemmy.world on 13 May 2024 23:21 next collapse

They’re meant to have a much wider temperature range than Li-ion, theoretically.

Dippy@beehaw.org on 14 May 2024 00:24 next collapse

If I’m not mistaken sodium ion is better with temperature and durability. The biggest problem is energy density, so they can’t compete in any applications where size and weight matter. This leads to their 2nd biggest problem, which is that there’s so much production infrastructure for lithium that no one wants to invest in new assemblies for other battery chemistries

the_third@feddit.de on 14 May 2024 06:25 collapse

I’ve got some 20-ish kWh LiFePo in the basement. The internal temperature barely reacts to a forgotten window in a cold winter night. The whole thing is just many kilograms of thermal mass. Are you sure the battery temp was your problem?

hglman@lemmy.ml on 14 May 2024 11:46 collapse

Battery temp is certainly a problem. Hard to compare between y’all’s stories what the issues are.