Twitch declares “Zionist” a slur — and a bannable offense (www.theverge.com)
from Alsephina@lemmy.ml to technology@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 04:52
https://lemmy.ml/post/22552888

#technology

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imPastaSyndrome@lemm.ee on 16 Nov 2024 05:21 next collapse

Ewww

avidamoeba@lemmy.ca on 16 Nov 2024 05:33 next collapse

OK, so people can use the definition instead. In fact it might be more useful.

metaStatic@kbin.earth on 16 Nov 2024 07:37 next collapse

Terrorists?

admin@lemmy.my-box.dev on 16 Nov 2024 09:34 collapse

I’m still not sure what it means, judging by the comments here it (murderer / terrorist etc) it does seem to be used as a slur. So yeah, using the definition instead would be useful.

wertyuiop@feddit.rocks on 16 Nov 2024 10:02 collapse

Terrorist isn’t a slur. Or are you saying criticizing ISIS was biggoted?

admin@lemmy.my-box.dev on 16 Nov 2024 10:40 next collapse

I just told you I I’m not sure of the definition, so asking me what I think it means is pointless. Though I’m pretty sure it’s not a group you can join like ISIS, right?

JackbyDev@programming.dev on 16 Nov 2024 11:11 collapse

They’re saying that in the same way terrorist is not always a slur but is used as a slur sometimes, Zionist can be used as a slur. I think it’s a fair take. It’s odd to specifically list Zionist as a contextual slur when you can just say no slurs.

I don’t know if I fully agree but that’s their argument as I understand it.

Edit: Idk why people are down voting me trying to explain someone’s argument.

Delphia@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 11:20 next collapse

If you refer to the Muslim man in the bomb vest as a terrorist its fine, if you refer to all muslim men as terrorists its a slur.

Refering to Israeli generals and politicians as Zionists is fine, If you refer to all Jewish people as Zionists…

admin@lemmy.my-box.dev on 16 Nov 2024 12:46 next collapse

I figured zionism had to do with an ideology, not a profession. Generalisations like these are not helping.

scorp@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 14:26 collapse

Falsehood is fruitless from the start so don’t worry, Truth always prevails as they say

admin@lemmy.my-box.dev on 16 Nov 2024 16:18 collapse

Meanwhile, nobody has attempted to give a definition. Lots of downvotes all around though. 🤷🏼‍♀️

scorp@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 16:25 collapse

the devil is in the details

small44@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 15:47 collapse

Nobody is referring as all Jews as zionists. Actually it’s zionists and Israel defender who want you to believe that anti zionism is anti Judaism

admin@lemmy.my-box.dev on 16 Nov 2024 12:17 next collapse

Yup, that’s it.

wertyuiop@feddit.rocks on 16 Nov 2024 20:26 collapse

I mean, is nazi a slur?

JackbyDev@programming.dev on 16 Nov 2024 23:49 collapse

If you do something like refer to all white people or all Germans as Nazis then yeah, in that context it’s a slur. But just referring to members of the Nazi party, definitely not. Extreme far right folks, personally no, I don’t view it as a slur there. Some people may disagree (probably the extreme far right people being called Nazis).

Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 05:35 next collapse

Zionists really captured that platform.

[deleted] on 16 Nov 2024 06:04 collapse

.

macabrett@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 11:32 next collapse

Congrats on your Bush era islamaphobia you ghoul

small44@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 15:43 collapse

I would like to see a version where it’s pro Israel and zionist quote or terrorist quote

chloroken@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 05:44 next collapse

Can we make Twitch a slur for terrible tech companies.

eldavi@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 06:12 collapse

All tech companies eventually enshitify and we would never be able to remember all of them if they all became slurs. Lol

ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 16 Nov 2024 06:00 next collapse

Twitch has become garbage anyway. I’m more on Kick for streams nowadays.

Anyway wasn’t “Zionist” suppose to be a good term for these murderers? Whether they make it a banable word, screw them. Those who defend Israel, their genocidal actions and claim that the land “belongs to them, the colonizers” are Zionists.

dinckelman@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 12:21 next collapse

Twitch is garbage, so you moved to a platform ran by a gambling company, where rules practically don’t exist, and the majority of the userbase is vehemently sexist and racist? That’s a level of mental gymnastics I genuinely will never understand

ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 16 Nov 2024 14:56 collapse

Yeah, totally!

zqps@sh.itjust.works on 16 Nov 2024 15:35 collapse

Even technologically Twitch has always been shit. For all the hate YT rightfully deserves, I’m kinda glad they just said “ok we do livestreaming now too” one day and it works so much better. Simply so I never have to go to twitch ever again.

ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 16 Nov 2024 16:59 collapse

The issue with YouTube is, I don’t see many people on it to Stream (or I just don’t look in the right direction?). I barely to not use Twitch these days, sometimes Kick but that’s about it.

theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 16 Nov 2024 07:22 next collapse

Hey everybody has a right to a racist ethnostate how dare people criticize the idea.

Azzu@lemm.ee on 16 Nov 2024 12:36 collapse

From the link of this post that you could have clicked on:

Twitch specifies this is conditional: you’re allowed to discuss the political movement of that name, but not “attack or demean another individual or group of people on the basis of their background or religious belief.”

Passerby6497@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 14:33 collapse

but not “attack or demean another individual or group of people on the basis of their background or religious belief.”

Yeah, how dare people try to demean someone just because they checks notes hold dehumanizing beliefs and support a government and movement bent on removing the people from their land so they can steal it and build new homes while ethnically cleansing the existing population.

smh my head.

JusticeForPorygon@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 07:31 next collapse

I’m willing to get this will increase the amount of actual ethnic slurs.

wertyuiop@feddit.rocks on 16 Nov 2024 10:01 collapse

It’s their goal. They want to conflate jewishness and israel because they need the world to be antisemitic.

Otherwise people would just leave.

1984@lemmy.today on 16 Nov 2024 08:05 next collapse

It’s great how people are gathering and having discussions under heavily censored platforms owned by billionaries, just amazing.

grue@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 10:44 collapse

And on top of that, pretty much all the platforms, even all the way down to this one, are censored in at least one increasingly-relevant way.

djsaskdja@reddthat.com on 16 Nov 2024 13:01 collapse

At least we can still talk about butt stuff in peace.

RiQuY@lemm.ee on 16 Nov 2024 08:52 next collapse

Friendly reminder that selfhosted streaming exists (Owncast) or online alternatives like PeerTube.

Viri4thus@feddit.org on 16 Nov 2024 09:04 next collapse

Next, “apartheid” will be anti-Semitic.

[deleted] on 16 Nov 2024 11:38 next collapse

.

anarchotoothbrushist@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 12:00 next collapse

At the same time I’d like to remind folks that not all Jewish people subscribe to Zionism.

Further to this, the majority of zionists are christians.

zqps@sh.itjust.works on 16 Nov 2024 15:31 collapse

I know there’s a lot of Christians involved but how do we know it’s the majority? Young Israelis are raised largely around Zionist propaganda after all.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 16 Nov 2024 16:00 next collapse

the majority of zionists are christians.

us braindead fundies are numbered in dozens of millions and they largely support Zionism.

in rural US, radio glorifying genocide... it is very disturbing.

technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 16 Nov 2024 16:06 next collapse
wpb@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 16:09 collapse

There’s about 100 million evangelical christians in the US, and a LifeWay poll in 2017 showed that about 80% essentially considered themselves zionists. That’s 80 million. There’s 15.8 million jews worldwide. So the non-Jewish zionists outweigh Jewish zionists by a fair margin. Heck, they outweigh the zionist and the non-zionist jews taken together by a beefy margin, even.

zqps@sh.itjust.works on 17 Nov 2024 02:10 collapse

That’s an insane number. Must be a very broad definition of Zionist.

wpb@lemmy.world on 17 Nov 2024 02:55 collapse

oh no, statistics that challenge my world view! Quick, let’s not look into it at all and move the goal posts!

Could you at least try to engage in this discussion? Or maybe come up with any evidence supporting your world view?

zqps@sh.itjust.works on 17 Nov 2024 04:19 collapse

A different definition of the term isn’t a different worldview. Also, not immediately spinning every exchange into an exhaustive debate isn’t a critical character flaw. Unlike being an insufferable ass about not getting the amount of attention you apparently feel entitled to.

Though I would take look at that poll about 80% of Christians being “essentially” Zionists if you’d link to it.

Azzu@lemm.ee on 16 Nov 2024 12:34 collapse

If you had looked at the link of this post, you would have read:

Twitch specifies this is conditional: you’re allowed to discuss the political movement of that name, but not “attack or demean another individual or group of people on the basis of their background or religious belief.”

I.e. nothing is masqueraded here as long as they keep to this. This seems to be a reasonable policy. I’ve seen a couple of instances of people being derogatorily called zionists just for supporting the people of current Israel not being pushed away out of their now decades-old homes, which is hard to still call Zionist if they don’t support any further expansion and any offensive military action.

There’s almost never anything gained to use “Zionist” on someone as if saying “asshole”.

JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee on 16 Nov 2024 12:56 next collapse

I guess my pessimistic lens is a little strong and I generally don’t trust large companies to act in good faith. So maybe I’m over scrutinizing here and being a bit of a curmudgeon.

I think your perspective is fair, and it’s likely this is akin to a high school faculty dealing with some random word or idea becoming a meme of sorts and causing problems. So they have to write some new rule that sounds ridiculous or weird.

It sucks there’s so much racism and bigotry driving forces in the world that it’s hard to not be dubious of everything. You always kinda wonder about the actual motivation behind things like this.

anas@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 14:00 next collapse

Twitch specifies this is conditional: you’re allowed to discuss the political movement of that name, but not “attack or demean another individual or group of people on the basis of their background or religious belief.”

Zionist is a political term, it has nothing to do with one’s background or religious belief.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 14:49 collapse

You’re entirely right.

But see if the political view is only held by members or a certain religious group (even if not all members of said religion accept said political thought), it’s easy to conflate it, so that you can ban anyone opposing said political thought based on “they’re discriminating against me because of my religion”.

Fuck twitch.

Schmoo@slrpnk.net on 16 Nov 2024 21:00 collapse

Except not all Zionists are Jews, many are Christian.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 21:04 collapse

Well, I guess, but… you could argue that Zionists are mostly seen to be purely Jewish due to the nature of the movement.

Passerby6497@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 14:30 next collapse

which is hard to still call Zionist if they don’t support any further expansion and any offensive military action.

Your ‘if’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting. And is fucking hilarious given they keep expanding and pushing people out of their decades old homes.

Funny how that part seems to be ignored in defense of zionists…

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 16 Nov 2024 16:03 collapse

say what you say about state of Israel but they got AIPAC to run propaganda of the history!

being able to mobilize foreign population to support your genocide really is the psyop of all times lol

small44@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 15:37 collapse

Zionists identify themselves as zionists. How’s that a slur?

Azzu@lemm.ee on 16 Nov 2024 16:07 collapse

I identify myself as a homosexual.

I’ve heard homo being used in a derogatory way as an insult. That usage should not be tolerated.

Retarded is just a medical term, yet you can use it as an insult as well.

That is what this “specification of conditional” aims at. It’s fine to use the word in a descriptive way, you’re just not allowed to go around angrily calling people “fucking zionist”

small44@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 17:10 collapse

They use the word starting with F not the word homosexual

linkerbaan@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 11:49 next collapse

Ethan and Hila Klein are filthy Zionists.

r00ty@kbin.life on 16 Nov 2024 12:46 collapse

Sir, this isn't a Twitch.

NutWrench@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 13:27 next collapse

How about “genocidal assholes?” Can they still say that?

JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee on 16 Nov 2024 11:38 next collapse

Calling zionism what it is shouldn’t be discouraged with dog whistles masquerading as conduct policies.

At the same time I’d like to remind folks that not all Jewish people subscribe to Zionism.

There are a couple Jewish lead organizations that fight for the freedom of Palestine and have been very critical of Israel for many years.

Jewish Voices for Peace is one group. I wonder how they’d feel about Twitches new policy. I’m genuinely curious what their opinion would be.

Edit - corrected Jewish Voices for Peace

humanspiral@lemmy.ca on 16 Nov 2024 22:52 collapse

Which makes the blob anti-semitic for saying anti-zionism is anti-semitic.

PanArab@lemm.ee on 16 Nov 2024 14:42 next collapse

Never used it and never will, but maybe we can make Twitch become a slur?

whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 15:49 next collapse

This might be out of context for the article, but once we are in /c/technology get this: GIMP is a slur, and their slogan during startup is “we glitch because we twitch” which makes me want to kick them in the nuts every time I use the fucking software.

brisk@aussie.zone on 17 Nov 2024 00:13 collapse

That kind of sucks, but it should only be for a dev release

gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp-data/…/splash-log.md

technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 16 Nov 2024 16:01 collapse

TBH people should talk about zionism and zionists much more.

DrDystopia@lemy.lol on 16 Nov 2024 14:54 next collapse

Good thing I’m an anti-zionist then I suppose.

[deleted] on 16 Nov 2024 15:36 next collapse

.

whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 15:51 next collapse

Is this why we should not delegate the control of hate speech to the state, because it will always blow up in our faces?

offspec@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 16:18 next collapse

Twitch is not the state

whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 16:36 collapse

Sure it isn’t. Let’s review this when the state does the same thing lol.

humanspiral@lemmy.ca on 16 Nov 2024 23:09 collapse

Jewish Supremacism was the instigating lobby for such laws. They wanted to enable other “supremacist liberal-themed” movements to take advantage, and hopefully ally, with Zionism. Me too, at the height of the cultural wars, essentially was representing that women can never lie.

An inherent problem with equality, awareness for oppressed groups, advocacy is that the advocacy never stops at equality. The ADL is canonical example of supremacist overreach.

whydudothatdrcrane@lemmy.ml on 17 Nov 2024 00:16 collapse

I am not subscribing to this bullshit, and I am sad my comment enabled you to spew it out. “Me too” was a valid and necessary movement to combat sexual assaults that were institutionalized in many industries and protected by law enforcement and judicial authorities. Many prominent figures went rightfully to jail for sex crimes, and the proportion of women lying about it is rather small to make a political argument off it. Tracing back “liberal-themed supremacy movements” to Jewish supremacism sounds to me quite close to Nazi conspiracy theory, to take any of this seriously. I am sorry this reached my feed, and I can’t wait to engage the likes of you in combat.

humanspiral@lemmy.ca on 17 Nov 2024 02:32 collapse

sorry to be triggering, but there is a link between zionists using “Jews have a history of oppression” linking to “everything a zionist says is true” is a related tactic to “empowerment advocacy” doesn’t stop after equality achieved. Hate crime legislation was sponsored by zionists, but they welcomed allies into broadening protections. Flipping out over the comment is a supremacist tactic.

wpb@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 15:54 next collapse

The same way I don’t think we should capitulate to framing “cracker” as a slur, or to framing “black lives matter” as a racist thing to say, I don’t think we should capitulate to framing things like “from the river to the sea” or “zionist” as antisemitic.

But, as a thought experiment, let’s indulge in this doublespeak trash. What is a good alternative? So far I’ve got:

  • Israeli colonizers
  • Jewish supremacists
  • genocidal sacks of shit
  • Israeli apartheidists
  • Isreal expansionists
  • Israeli warmongerers
  • people in favor of the genocide and apartheid committed by Israel (in full, every time you need to say zionist)
  • modern day nazis
  • zionazis (technically not zionist!)

So all of this liberal crybaby nomenclature trash aside, I actually do think “zionist” is in itself a fairly useless term for the Israeli apartheid question (as Norman Finkelstein and Judith Butler do too). While one faction of zionism pursued the nakba and massacres from fairly early on, and while this faction has been quite successful, there are other notions of zionism which do not entail murdering children or colonizing a country. When Netanyahu and Chomsky can both legitimately refer to themselves as zionists, I think it’s clear that zionism is too broad a term to be useful in the current ongoing genocide and the ethnic cleansing that has been going on for the better part of a century.

ElJefe@lemm.ee on 16 Nov 2024 17:57 next collapse

I wish I could upvote this more.

Edit: a word

RealistAF@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 20:38 next collapse

These are indeed very good alternatives

ChronosTriggerWarning@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 23:52 next collapse

I’m partial to three, m’self.

Infomatics90@lemmy.ca on 17 Nov 2024 01:42 next collapse

the problem is that about 75% of people have no idea what happened during the partition plan and 20% who do think what the Zionists did were justified (even pre partition/pre war/war time(

Zannsolo@lemmy.world on 17 Nov 2024 14:41 collapse

Izan - Nazi backwards Iz A Nazi or IzrAeli Nazi

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 16 Nov 2024 15:58 next collapse

Once genz matures, public opinion on Israel will shift. I hope Israel enters the "and find out" stage.

Fuck 'em, disgusting parasites leeching on US might to commit a genocide. Americans will pay for this too...

next 9/11: why would anybody do this to us 🤡

sad reality many of us did not sign up to fund the genocide but AIPAC was able to infiltrated state and corpos from within while avoiding foreign agent registration.

our spooks are fucking useless...

technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 16 Nov 2024 15:59 next collapse

Are they gonna lock up genocide joe for hate crimes?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDR-tWM2zzU

ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 16:04 next collapse

But Zionism isn’t a religion, it’s a nationalist movement.

Thteven@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 16:10 next collapse

Do a lot of slurs have a wikipedia page?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_Zionism

null@slrpnk.net on 16 Nov 2024 21:20 next collapse

Yes, probably most of them…

humanspiral@lemmy.ca on 16 Nov 2024 22:47 next collapse

I actually do think “zionist” is in itself a fairly useless term for the Israeli apartheid question (as Norman Finkelstein and Judith Butler do too).

Do any of the forms of zionism (a belief that they should own the land) involve market purchases of the land they would like? (instead of settler colonial theft?)

Revan343@lemmy.ca on 17 Nov 2024 00:22 collapse

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/*removed*

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetback_(slur)

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spic

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paki_(slur)

So yeah. Not that ‘Zionist’ is a slur

Edit: Really, shitty censorship bot? We’re adulterating URLs now, and selectively only that specific slur? Gross on both counts

ghurab@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 16:22 next collapse

sooo twitch declares the Zionist movement offensive? and should only discussed in sn academic sense? /s

wow twitch, very brave!!

[deleted] on 16 Nov 2024 17:56 next collapse

.

BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world on 16 Nov 2024 21:27 next collapse

“How dare you use a word that means ‘genocidal, imperialist, apartheid, ethnostate’ in a way that explicitly means ‘genocidal, imperialist, apartheid, ethnostate’!” - Twitch, active supporters and enablers of genocidal, imperialist, apartheid ethnostates.

lorty@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 21:35 next collapse

Waiting for the free-speech absolutists to boycott twitch for this (they won’t)

Crikeste@lemm.ee on 17 Nov 2024 04:41 collapse

One of the orchestrators of this whole thing, Destiny, defends child porn and the use of slurs.

Ironic is putting it lightly.

humanspiral@lemmy.ca on 16 Nov 2024 22:37 next collapse

They probably don’t like zionazi either. Neither this nor zionist is a code word for Jew. The entire political class, the great majority being Christian, and their donors are zionist, because going with the flow of AIPAC is path to get your candidates to also serve your oligarchist or Christofascist protections.

Netanyahuists or likudists or Mossadists or Epsteinists ok?

BTW, Chuck Shumer is going to allow a vote in Senate over this “criticism of zionism is anti semitic” law in US. Reddit also supports mods who recomend permabans over criticism of zionism already.

PedroG14@lemmy.ml on 16 Nov 2024 22:58 next collapse

Okay, now streamers can get more creative when refering to a zionist. I think that ‘bibi’s removed’ is a good term.

ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works on 17 Nov 2024 00:35 next collapse

They already banned a swathe of pro-palestinian political streamers in the run up to the US election, so this is likely retroactive reasoning.

selokichtli@lemmy.ml on 17 Nov 2024 00:51 next collapse

How do you people propose to call them? Expansionists? Colonialists? Genocidists?

scutiger@lemmy.world on 17 Nov 2024 01:39 collapse

Israeli supremacists

AidsKitty@lemmy.world on 17 Nov 2024 02:21 next collapse

I really don’t like the censorship of speech from either side. People have a right to choose their own words and suffer the consequences for the words they choose.

lps@social.trom.tf on 18 Nov 2024 01:51 collapse

@Alsephina okay, how about "the baddies"?;)