from ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 03 Dec 18:41
https://lemmy.world/post/22731365
Despite Microsoft’s push to get customers onto Windows 11, growth in the market share of the software giant’s latest operating system has stalled, while Windows 10 has made modest gains, according to fresh figures from Statcounter.
This is not the news Microsoft wanted to hear. After half a year of growth, the line for Windows 11 global desktop market share has taken a slight downturn, according to the website usage monitor, going from 35.6 percent in October to 34.9 percent in November. Windows 10, on the other hand, managed to grow its share of that market by just under a percentage point to 61.8 percent.
The dip in usage comes just as Microsoft has been forcing full-screen ads onto the machines of customers running Windows 10 to encourage them to upgrade. The stats also revealed a small drop in the market share of its Edge browser, despite relentlessly plugging the application in the operating system.
threaded - newest
What… How is that even possible? Are new machines being sold with 10 instead of 11?
My guess is either people are downgrading, or enough people are dropping Windows entirely after previously using Windows 11 (whether by switching to Mac or Linux, or by deciding that they don’t need laptops at all and can get by with just an iPad or something) to affect the percentages.
Edit: oh, also Chromebooks. I bet it’s a lot of people switching to ChromeOS.
Ah… Yeah, I’d wager the bulk is going to phones and tablets, and that should be extremely telling for anyone at Microsoft trying to enshittify 11.
I’d love if it were Linux but its probably macs, mostly due to their superior battery life (compared to Windows).
Anecdotally my parents bit the bullet switched to Macs after using Windows 11 and all its unnecessary changes from 10. It was death by a thoudand cuts for them, where simple processes like search and printers are radically different than before. If they gotta learn a new system, might as well learn something that works.
I literally just remembered that ChromeOS is a thing. I bet a big chunk is people seeing that they’re cheaper and deciding to switch to those. So, in a way, it kind of is Linux.
They’re cheaper, and they seem to have been pushed heavily to kids in school though loaner laptops. Some decent percentage of new college students already know how to use ChromeOS and they’re broke college students…
Apple kinda did something similar when I was a kid, they gave a bunch of iMacs to my elementary school, and because they came from families that could afford it, they just kept using Apple products.
Yep. I work in the edtech industry, actually, and ChromeOS has something like an 80% market share. It’s an incredibly dominant platform in K12.
I don’t think many people are changing OSs on their laptops, but you may be right about them ditching laptops altogether. 15 years everybody had a computer, now many people just get by with a phone.
Yeah, probably the switches that are making any meaningful impact to the statistics are Windows 11 users buying a Mac (edit: or a Chromebook). I don’t doubt that there is a higher than usual number of Windows users switching to Linux because of Microsoft’s latest nonsense, but you’re right that it’s probably not the biggest part of this stat.
Yeah I bet people are just getting by with a phone. There’s an entire generation that uses phones for 95% of their computer needs.
I’m using a phone app right now haha.
lemmy.world/comment/13777073
Again, this is awesome but probably not the main factor, as most people dont know how to install an OS.
Step one is to run format C,
Then shits broke and the automatic repair likely won’t be able to make heads or tails of it, doubt sfc or dism will help to much… so they will open Google on their phone and realize they should have created a recovery drive before formatting the C drive.
But now they know!
I mean, if you even have to go into the bios or dip into the mechanics of drive letters and formatting, you have already lost most people.
Im just tired of driving 50 miles each way to work again. If I can get more people to fuck up their computers locally maybe I can start a local job 🤷
Yes, there are Win 10 machines still being sold, and because they aren’t eligible to upgrade to 11, they’re dirt cheap. I suspect this is the main driver behind Win 10 growing market share.
Not going to change unless Microsoft does a complete 180 on how they’re handling Win11 which I don’t think they will do because it’s just not in their corporate strategy at the moment. I imagine most people are just going to keep using Win10 after the support period ends.
Microsoft seriously needs an upper management shakeup. They have been dropping the ball badly in numerous areas and have their heads lodged too far up their own asses to see it.
That was my plan until MS installed copilot on my system without asking. A month later I installed Linux and haven’t looked back. I did dual boot just in case I needed it, but I actually haven’t had to boot into windows for the last 4 months. It’s gone so well I’m currently planning to do the same to my wife’s computer in a few months when I give it its hardware refresh.
The market share for Win 11 has dropped because people are “downgrading” to Win 10, holding on to that for another year before support runs out.
The Windows computers in our house never upgraded to Win 11.
No surprise there.
Some people are also jumping ship to Linux, fed up of Windows BS all together.
I am skeptical of this because the majority of people do not know how to install an OS.
I think its people not using Windows at all. Colloquially, I know young people that basically only know how to use mobile interfaces and tablets.
DO NOT PAY FOR WINDOWS 10 UPDATES.
They’re pushing this plan to make people pay to continue to get support for 10 very hard.
Don’t fucking do it. Make them eat this loss of a shitty invasive OS that nobody asked for. This trend is evidence that we’re in control in this situation, not Microsoft.
Force their hand and make it so they have no choice but to keep supporting Windows 10 for free for five more years.
Look, I’m a Linux user primarily, but that doesn’t mean you should just let these corporate fuckholes walk all over you. Windows 10 is ride or die. Make Microsoft pay for trying to fuck you out of a cleaner operating system that is less infested with spyware and actually works half the time.
Not everybody has the time or energy to figure out Linux, but either way, the best way to fight Microsoft is by hitting them square in the pocketbook.
Linux is mostly pretty easy to install/use at this point as long as you stick with a main distro like Mint
Even Mint you have to jump through hoops to not have to put in your password every time there’s updates. Hoops that are too complex for a newbie on their own.
Most Linux users don’t want to admit that a huge thing that makes people hate Linux is having to type in their password every time there’s updates (and there’s always updates.)
It’s seemingly such a small thing, and as Linux users, we know the why behind it so we don’t question it, but the average user doesn’t and they hate typing their password over and over to get into the computer, let alone to update it.
To them, Windows is easier since the updates happen silently in the background, and aren’t in the forefront because Linux expects you to know what the fuck you’re doing.
Every Linux box that I didn’t fuck with to make sure updates happened silently in the background that I gave to anyone else would always be wildly out of date the next time I touched it because they just… don’t install updates instead of typing in their password.
Often, they’ve forgotten the fucking password, if you’ve made it so they don’t have to put a password in when they log in (my mother has done this one countless times).
Until we figure out a way to make Linux secure and straightforward for end-users, people will stick with Windows.
I’ve heard people claim Mint is easy enough for non technical users (grandma, etc.), but I think that’s with the caveat that they will have someone to support the machine.
Yeah, nobody’s paying me so I don’t have the time or effort to be everyone’s tech support for Linux. If they can’t figure out how to type in their password to install updates, it means most people are way too fuck stupid to handle Linux. No offense, but I mean really. If Linux still needs me to manage their system for them, it’s by definition NOT friendly to the non-computer-savvy.
I’ve gotta be like one of the few Linux users who still sees it as too much for the average user, mostly because average users are fucking whiny crybabies who hate learning anything new ever. See also Bluesky vs. Mastodon.
That’s fair. I maintain a Fedora installation for my elderly mother, whose Windows laptop is on its last legs. I revitalized a 15 year old desktop with Fedora for her, installed everything she needed (browser, file manager, libreoffice, iscan, brother printer drivers, password manager, zoom meetings, etc.). But yeah, every month I hop on, open up a terminal and run
sudo dnf upgrade, and every 6 months run the Fedora major version update.Don’t get me wrong, I’m impressed my Mom has been able to get all her business done using Fedora, but I definitely am acting sysadmin should anything in the slightest go wrong or confuse her. That said, I think she could run the upgrades if I left her with extensive notes (but if anything went wrong, she’d lose her shit, ngl).
I don’t know, I think a Linux distribution with automatic updates would be a good thing if you could ensure every user would be guaranteed to not be greeted with any issues upon reboot from said update.
But yeah, sadly, even on the most user friendly of distros, you still have to have a decent familiarity with the command line , and have the patience and knowledge of where to look for, and then read and comprehend, the documentation. And I doubt there will ever be a time in the future where 100% of users are comfortable with all that, though imho if you use any computer at all, you should at least try.
Honestly this sounds like it’d be so far in the future that it’s not even realistic to contemplate right now. We’re clearly not even close to this being the reality.
Sadly, I’m in very much agreement with you on this. I love the Linux OS to death, but I’m very very much into learning as much as I can about computers right now, and I am not representative of the majority of computer users.
I understand now why updates are required, why they sometimes break things, and ultimately what has to be done either by myself or, usually, others, to fix them.
But most people seem to go absolute ape shit when things don’t work as expected, and I think that has to do more with human societies not cultivating enough patient, non-stressed, curious, people. And that’s what bums me out more than this whole Windows vs Linux thing…
I think this is, for most people I’ve spoken with (including coders in games, my kids, etc) the major issue – they don’t want to have to use the command line for things. It’s fine if you can, but that alone is a massive wall for some people. People are exhausted right now, and having to learn a variety of command line prompts instead of just clicking on icons is too much for some people. That can be argued till you’re red in the face, but I think a major reason so many people bounce off linux, myself included, is that it’s not ‘as easy as windows.’ We need to stop telling people it is, because that means they won’t try again later.
I definitely hear you on that, and in some ways, it’s a shame more people don’t have the option to learn more about how their computer works.
The Linux OS is, in my experience, one of the most amazing things I’ve ever taken the time to learn. In my pursuit of not only learning programming and computer science fundamentals, but also the internals of the Linux operating system, I’ve gained a granular control over my computing devices that has allowed me to be spared the onslaught of forced “AI in everything” that has recently been pushed down people’s throats. I also have minimal exposure to invasive advertisements, and other unwanted features.
But the cost for access to said knowledge was an immense amount of time studying, an equivalent amount of patience, and a strong desire to learn difficult subjects. That’s a cost the majority of users are unable or unwilling to pay. They simply dont have the time and/or desire, and that’s just reality.
Ultimately, I don’t think it’s acknowledged enough that it requires a vast amount of privilege to have the time and energy to devote to such endeavors such as learning how Linux, the command line, and Computer Systems more broadly, work. I think this is because to acknowledge such would open the discussion up to the more broader topics of the qualities of our education systems and our cultivation of more positively reinforced learning models, which is a much more difficult topic to navigate and argue about when contrasted with the “It’s easy to install Linux. Windows bad, so just do it.” argument that pervades the discussion space.
This is an incredibly thoughtful and well said point, thank you for making it. It’s important to remember to empathize with users because we didn’t all start in the same place, or have the same time or money, and so on. The comments about the privilege to have time and energy to learn it are spot on.
So again, thank you :)
You don’t have to use the command line at all.
Here’s step four of Mint’s installation guide:
Then we get this:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/b21cfb59-eca3-42b3-bb7c-70c89ee1ed00.png">
You know Windows is exactly the same right?
Nice try, though. I’ll let you have one more go.
Windows is just too difficult for normies to use. All that command line stuff, PowerShell, registry stuff.
Cool whataboutism; I was told ‘you never need the command line’ and then the installation instructions for Mint have you using the command line. Plus you regularly need it in Linux, and you don’t in Windows. That’s the point.
Do you actually think, sigh, ‘normies’ use the command line, powershell, or registry in Windows? The whole point is you can use it but don’t have to. On linux you’re forced to use it at times.
You don’t need it, though. Who actually verifies the md5sum of their ISO?
Can you install without doing it? Yes. Therefore it’s not needed.
Needed: necessary. A requirement to perform a duty.
Completely untrue. I have to use PowerShell and the registry quite frequently (at least every month or two). I don’t have to use the terminal in Linux. Ever.
You are just making shit up.
Sigh yes, sigh they sigh do sigh, because sigh shit sigh breaks sigh and sigh you sigh need sigh to sigh go sigh there sigh to sigh fix sigh it.
Sigh.
Why do you keep making shit up? I’ve not used it on my PC for years. I don’t even have it installed. That’s how unnecessary it is.
Where’s this “force”?
Why are you lying so much? Were you never taught to never lie?
I’m just going to assume this is a bot at this point.
Sigh. Can’t retort so you just claim someone is a bot. A poor tactic, usually employed by the… er… academically challenged.
You keep lying. Lying is bad. Don’t be a liar.
You can go now. Alt-tab back to the PowerShell windows users constantly have to use.
You’re not alone, I’ve been screaming into the void about this for a long time too. People keep saying “Linux is user friendly enough these days for even non techy people” and I’m sorry but it’s totally not.
I think most Linux users just don’t realize how technologically illiterate most people are. Most people can barely use a browser and send emails. They absolutely don’t want to mess with anything related to “updates” that they have no idea wtf is doing to their system anyway.
I guess people who say that think of the average non techy user as someone like me: I don’t really know how this works under the hood, but I do troubleshoot my own stuff, am willing and able to search for help and apply advice on my own, try different things, and hopefully realize when that advice starts to sound fishy.
The thing is, that’s not the average non-techy user. That’s already “dabbling in tech”.
The average non techy user is Homer going “oh, a talking moose on the Internet wants my credit card number? Sounds fair.”
Yea, definitely. Also just the fact that you’re here says a lot. I don’t think you can find many (if any) of these “normal” users on the fediverse.
That’s my beef. Most of the time I don’t have the time to reverse engineer my volume knob drivers via the command line, let alone figure out which obscurly-named (but generally under 8 characters) random function or shell script or what have you is the fix, but oh you gotta install the repository, but first you gotta find out which one is compatible with your kernel, and then do it all again cause you forgot to type sudo and your password at every goddamn step
The same is true for windows though. I have to help my dad with some minor thing at least once a month.
Macs also make you put your password in all the time for updates, installs, etc. Laymen seem to use macs just fine
Hell, people get mad about having to hit a ‘Cool, do that button’, let alone something like a password. It’s how we ended up with UAC v2, because people were steaming pissed about having to accept when a badly written app was doing something stupid that they just changed the scope of ‘stupid’ to be much less restrictive.
In fact it’s even bled over to OS X, as people are SO mad about entering passwords they’re angry at Apple over it, too.
Basically, any time a UI hops in front of you and goes ‘Wait! This is important!’ people get annoyed, and well, all OSes are moving towards more of that shit rather than less, as if they didn’t know that was annoying or something. Glad I don’t work in UX or I’d probably lose my mind at how much stupid hostile shit is being added constantly.
It honestly baffles me how this keeps being a thing. Not just for OSs but for a lot of websites too. And the wild thing is that most of the time, it’s not even that important and the user does not and should not care about it.
on top of which it creates a security issue too:
by teaching users to always instantly click on “OK”, “Accept”, etc, they stop reading the actually important messages, because they’re being bombarded by so, so many useless pop-ups everywhere…
Indeed.
It’s to the point that even legitimate sites look like those dark-pattern fake scam ecommerce sites with all the popups, fake “deals”, and timers and shit.
Windows of course feels much the same way - recently replaced a failed mac with a new Mini and holy crap is MacOS so fucking zen.
I logged into my apple account and then was assaulted by… fucking nothing. No ads, no popups, no upsells, no candy crush, no enabling AI shit. I just landed on the desktop to do whatever the hell it was I was going to be doing.
The second my father asks me about this is when I revoke his computer privileges.
That’s… by design. Nothing can change your computer until you decide to approve it. As you said, you can change that setting but it’s not an oversight. Many of Windows’ historic security vulnerabilities were because they gave every user admin rights and didn’t prompt for changes. It’s also how many users were unknowingly upgraded to Windows 11 without wanting it…
Absolutely, and it’s very good design.
But people can fuck right off with this “Linux can be used by everybody” shit, because apparently remembering to type in a password is too god damned confusing for most.
I installed Mint this week.
It did install more smoothly than the others I tried on this run of "I wonder if Linux is viable now" (Fedora 41, Pop, Bazzite, if you're wondering). It, however, does not support HDR yet and it, like every other one, won't do proper 5.1 audio out of my ASUS MB, which has no official Linux drivers.
So Windows it is, then, because all the other distros had bigger problems. Fedora is the one that has all the features I need, and it still has the audio bug and it crashed a bunch after I went through all the hoops to set up an Nvidia card.
This. And if folks are worried that their computer’s hardware won’t be supported (wifi, touchscreen, mousepad, soundcard or a weird mobile graphics driver) I recommend testing it by booting from a live linux flash drive. If everything works with the live version, it should work with the installed version, too.
Yo it’s stupid easy to install on a Microsoft Surface watching a 10 min YouTube video. Everything works
Yup. The main concern is if there’s specific software you cannot do without, such as:
But if you’re a bit flexible and are willing to try different software, then yeah, Linux is pretty rad. Most Steam games I’ve tried work, you can play Epic and GOG games through Heroic, LibreOffice is fantastic, VLC works the same, and you can get almost any web browser you want (Firefox, Chrome, etc). And if your hardware isn’t too old, it’ll probably work well w/ Wayland, which resolves a number of problems people have had in the past.
If you have any questions about app compatibility, ask away! I probably haven’t used whatever it is, but surely someone else has.
if only my professional software supported it…
What people have to watch out for now is unlocking their bootloader if they want to test Linux on a USB drive or dual boot, for example, it will trip Bitlocker (conveniently installed on every Windows computer via update without notification or consent), and that will irreversibly encrypt their Windows hard drive without warning.
Ask me how I know.
Also the fact that linux installers seem to fuck up dualbooting like 60% of the time, effectively locking you out of your windows partition… Make backups you guys!
Linux works great when using programs like Blue beam, AutoCAD, Revit and VR.
Oh wait, no it doesn’t.
massgrave.dev.
You expect them to work for you for free? What kind of entitled bullshit is that?
Not paying for the 10 security updates doesn’t hurt MS. They don’t make money from their consumer OS. The money is from Office, Cloud, and corporate contracts. It only leaves your PC open. You don’t have the time to install Linux today but you will make the time to attempt to recover your Windows PC from ransomware because you left it unpatched.
Install Linux today. Stop making excuses.
This is just funny.
Oh yeah, nevermind, I’ll use the free operating system made by people who are working for me for free. Or wait, is that entitled, I’m confused.
Pick a fuckin lane, dude.
Demand that a Linux developer must add a feature that you personally want and yes you are entitled. “I don’t want to upgrade Mint! Patch the old kernel. I demand it!”
MS is selling a security patch. Buy it or don’t.
Linux is available for free. Install it or don’t.
You don’t have a right to demand either way. It’s especially hypocritical given you spend more time on a phone that doesn’t give you 10 years of support like Windows 10 did.
Man you gotta stop making assumptions about other people.
I have numerous computers and only one of them has Windows on it, and even that one is set up to dualboot with Linux. I live and breathe Linux daily, friend.
I live and breathe Linux so much that I set it up so that I don’t have to touch my phone, because I fucking hate phones. I guarantee you I spend way more time on the PC than on a phone.
I have network-level blocking to prevent a massive amount of data entering or leaving my phone and PC.
I’m a Linux user by default, and I think what Microsoft is doing is anti-consumer so I don’t really give a shit if they make money off it or not.
Taking a financial loss because you fucked over your customers is how capitalism is supposed to work. All this talk of entitlement forgets that I paid for my fucking OS. It doesn’t matter if the OS isn’t their moneymaker: if it isn’t that’s more reason for them to stop fucking their customers for a quick buck.
Also, finally, if Microsoft really cared about their OS and licensing, maybe they should have updated how their licensing activation works at some point in the last 20 years so the massgrave exploit would stop working.
That doesn’t mean you get patches for the rest of your life. Again you are using a phone that doesn’t give you 10 years of support and you are acting like MS is evil for not giving you more.
MS is evil because they don’t do more to stop piracy? Wtf?
No. Go to 11 or go to a different OS. Been hearing these arguments since Windows95 came out, and they are never correct.
You don’t own Windows. You cannot maintain Windows without Microsoft. Either get onboard or find a different OS.
lol this is the exact same rethoric people were spewing when Windows 7 went EOL because Windows 10 was sooo bad and now everyone’s fighting tooth and nail to keep using it. W11 is basically a better skin on W10. Just move on.
I’ve been saying this for years to people, but it won’t happen, sadly, if history is anything to go on. The average consumer will always take the easiest path to convenience, even foregoing their leverage as a consumer, if given the choice for a simple monetary resolution.
If the average consumer had the fortitude to resist getting something they wanted now for better pricing/functionality, a lot of these businesses wouldn’t be doing the bullshit they have been doing with price hikes and enshittification. We are simply not a society that can live without these conveniences.
Those that try to “vote with their wallet” (econ 101, baby) know the power the consumer has if principled enough to give up convenience for leverage. Unfortunately, as long as someone can throw money at a problem and call it fixed, it will be difficult to pressure companies to do anything to improve their product. I’d love to be proven wrong.
Hell, maybe one silver lining of the impending tariff disaster is the consumer will be unable to afford it as stuff we need gets too expensive for the stuff we want.
Microsoft was doing a somewhat ok job at windows with windows7. Then they decided to do stuff like remove media center and remove support for TV tuners and pump up the tracking and assorted idiocies
Idk. People have been saying the last version of Windows was the best one for decades (with a couple of notable exceptions). Until they switch to something else in large enough numbers to get the right asshat with an MBA at Microsoft to pay attention they will just keep squeezing.
I'll uh ... be over here continuing to use an OS that doesn't <checks notes> show me a full-screen ad.
All I have ever seen is a single sentence on the login screen promoting MS products. Do none of you still use Windows? Are you saying stuff like this based on memes?
I’ve seen the full screen ad on windows 10. It’s not just memes.
No, this is absolutely a thing that happens now. It came through in the last couple of updates. Sporadically it pops up a screen in your face like this:
<img alt="" src="https://cdn.neowin.com/news/images/uploaded/2023/02/1677186187_windows_11_upgrade_prompt.jpg">
I just got one on the little pseudo-netbook we use to run one of the barcode scanners at work the other day, despite this machine not even being “eligible” to run Windows 10.
This hasn’t happened to me but probably because my computer doesn’t support Windows 11 (it doesn’t support TPM)
Apparently there’s ads for upgrading your computer to be able to run W11. I haven’t run into them myself.
Same here, but I did occasionally get a similar full screen reminding me of that fact and urging me to buy a new PC. I installed Mint instead.
Promoting MS products on the login screen of the OS you paid for is an ad.
Microsoft is adware
I'll uh .. be over here continuing to use an OS that doesn't <checks notes> show me an ad when I am logging in.
🤷♂️
i think the ads are a US thing only
They’re not. I got one last week, the one about ‘buy a new computer with Windows 11’. And I’m in the Netherlands.
well, i stand corrected. i only have win10 on my laptop that i use for school and haven’t seen any popups. may be because updater is broken beyond repair…
I don’t use Windows and haven’t for well over a decade, but my SO does and they haven’t mentioned anything. Not sure if that means it didn’t happen, or they just don’t care.
That said, I remember seeing the ads for Candy Crush and whatnot in the start menu, and that was annoying. I also played w/ Win 11, and it seemed to have similar nonsense, plus they moved everything around again.
I use W10 and I’ve gotten two full-screen ads for W11 in the last two weeks.
Does it start with an A?
Alma Linux does not have ads
I was pondering over Amiga Workbench, but Alma is nice too
AIX?
Alpine Busybox/Linux?
People found out about the Win10 IoT LTSC version, which Microsoft alleges to be supporting for 10 more years.
It comes with basically zero of the M$ bloat that everyone hates, as well. It’s just Windows.
I just installed it on my father’s new (old) laptop, because he is not ready for Linux yet – possibly ever.
It has no:
It does come with Edge.
Because it does not have the Microsoft Store you have to manually install anything that comes as a store app from the command line. I was taken by surprise that the Duckduckgo browser is packaged this way. But you can still do it. Normal programs install just fine.
Yes, you can use it for gaming.
Edit: I guess I forgot to drop the obligatory link to massgrave.dev , which is how I found out about this and got it running. Also hosted there is a tool that allows you to… license… various Microsoft products including your shiny new Win10 IoT install.
holy fuck that sounds absolutely awesome. why wasn’t I on this version to begin with hahah
I bought an i7 NUC to use as HTPC some years ago. It has W10 IoT on it. Handles Dolby Atmos like a charm & 4K to a degree (YouTube. Last time i checked, Windows still liked to give 4K media files a purple hue)
No Candy Crush? Non-starter.
Yeah what do you do on a computer without Candy Crush. Could it even connect to the Internet?
I thought Candy Crush was a dependency for File Explorer, TIL
Just adding that 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC is also super solid and great for gaming,
no bullshit installed, just Edge + Defender. I disable Edge- instead of uninstalling- with a tool that just breaks it, since Edge always gets installed again eventually.I got it from that same site, been problem free for months now. I only went with 11since my 5800X3D is still fairly new.
Edit: Fine, no bullshit other than Edge + Defender.
Does this version of Windows 11 feel as snappy as normal Windows 10? And do the fans randomly flare up like on my installation of normal Windows 11?
It feels snappy enough to me. I dunno about fans though, as I set mine in UEFI/BIOS.
Maybe it’s all in my head, but I tried it a while back and it felt less snappy than clean windows 10 but more snappy than stock windows 11. It also retains a lot of the annoyances of stock windows 11.
Unfortunately I can’t use it because I have a WMR VR headset and it’s unsupported on the IoT and LTSC.
There’s a YouTube channel called memories tech tips and he’s developing a script that you can add to your ISO that will have a similar effect to the LTSC. That in combination with Chris Titus techs ultimate windows utility after first boot makes setting things up much easier.
This sounds nice, thanks for that information.
How do you know stuff is particularly “unsupported” on a same os but different build? Other then errors of course?
In my head it is the same os just different blend so wonder why it wouldnt work. Reckon maybe some missing system components. Though can copy those over?
Anyway was curious if you knew! Thanks
It’s basically just Microsoft being shit heads on their development of the Windows Mixed reality drivers that creates that specific edge case. Hopefully the open source monado drivers will be a good replacement eventually. Most everything else should work fine.
I only know because I had windows 10 LTSC when I bought my headset and tried to get it working and found reddit threads with the same issue. I tested the windows 11 IoT when it came out because I hoped it would support my headset then I found out they are dropping support next year.
There needs to be a class action lawsuit about this to either open-source the drivers or to refund all those who purchased WMR devices.
At this point, I’m assuming you don’t like yourself very much.
Well, I would like to switch to Linux but my VR headset is holding me back. Linux does have its own annoyances. I would probably still have to virtualize windows because of productivity software I need.
I also use an engineering sample CPU so uhhh… I’ve learned to stop worrying and love the jank.
Fair enough. You can keep your partition and run your VM from there, btw.
Pick one
Edge isn’t that bad. You need something to download Firefox with.
The bullshit is when every windows link insists on opening in edge rather then your default browser.
winget install Mozilla.Firefox
Winget makes fresh Windows installs much less painful!
Just incase it helps anyone: For the 11 IoT LTSC, to use winget you first have to install 2 packages via power shell. First: VCLibs.x64.14.00.Desktop.appx Then: DesktopAppInstaller_********.msixbundle
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6a9a5da7-67b5-4699-b354-b1957c54aeb7.png">
Nah, when my Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC (non-IoT) runs out in 2027 it will be the last Windows version I ever use.
Ok.
Perhaps even Cool.
What do you have against it? The original was better I grant you that.
It doesn’t do anything VLC doesn’t do except try to steal your file extensions all the damn time.
VLC is better but a basic media player has been part of Windows for decades now. Any decent OS will come with one. The default on most Linux distros isn’t much better.
I haven’t had vlc ork reliably in a while, any video playback was glitchy and out of sync. I use photos to look at videos now, worse features but it has no issues and honestly I just want to play a video file with no effort
Huh, maybe I’ll consider replacing my current Win10 install that I never use with this. And maybe I’ll see about replacing my SO’s install with it as well.
Didn't they got rid of the Cortana branding?
Yeah I believe they’re just calling it copilot now
Honestly that was the one positive thing about it for me.
The store is there, its just disabled, there is some command you can run to enable it. I forgot what it was though.
Sounds like Linux but worse. Got my dad on Mint and all he ever uses is a browser and mail program (2nd one is optional)
All my mom does is browser and Office365. I tried to get her into LibreOffice and I saw her suffering through it for some time and decided to put her out of her misery by MAS’ing her Office.
Is that because he can’t figure out how to do fuck all in Linux?
Me too
Linux: Cause you’re just gonna use an Internet browser anyway.
Just download Steam, it’ll do the rest.
Believe it or not my pops is readonably tech savvy. He was an engineer and does industrial control automation, and there are a lot of software suites for that which are firmly Windows only. Hardware license dongles and the whole bit. Our chances of getting that to run in Wine are below zero.
VM with one dedicated usb hub passed thru?
When I still had a Windows 11 install, it was running under an Enterprise License. Apparently, Enterprise and Education are the only editions left that allow you to deactivate all those unwanted components via the Group Policy Editor. Also the only editions that allow you to turn off telemetry.
At some point, I managed to get all the stuff I needed running seamlessly on Linux, and I plan on never going back to MS.
I’m still using Windows 10 on my personal work laptop, and I’ve got to say that what you’ve described sounds pretty appealing. Windows 10 with most of the crapware removed, and extended support. That sounds like a good deal…
But on the flip side, I think it’s a bad idea to get an OS from a piracy site. Maybe it’s all genuine and tickety-boo, but being a reputable 3rd party source is a fairly high bar. I certainly wouldn’t trust a site I’ve never heard of to give me a legitimate copy of a better-than-standard version of Windows. Their offer to verify their own files is less than convincing. I think I’d need to be an active part of the scene to be able to trust something like that - because it certainly smells like an easy way to get back-doored.
I agree. I need to trust where the OS (or any software) comes from. I’d rather get a legitimate windows copy and then debloat it and turn off telemetry and other BS myself. Then I know I’m good on both counts. But apparently the IoT LTSC version is legit, not a cracked copy. This is the first I’ve ever heard of it.
You install windows as standard (from MS directly), selecting the IoT version during setup. Afaik it’s on GH so you can view the scripts, copy/paste if you don’t trust the downloaded .ps1, etc.
I ran the OS for a couple months on a system and had no issues. No funky activity reported (no more than usual) with snort, no alerts from sophos. I didn’t extensively verify it, but I don’t have any suspicions to report.
I am sure Microsoft will take this to heart and stop the bloat shit and not kill off Windows 10 for good.
Ouah nice, if I can keep W10 for a few years the time to learn the specificities of Linux (let’s be honest for a total newb, there are a lot) with the Deck it’s perfect!
This would also allow me to keep using software unable to run on Linux.
Thank you for explaining this, I’ll check!
If the LTSC was the actual Windows then they wouldn’t be losing any market share. That shit is crazy nice
Yeah, well. They make most of their money off of advertising revenue and the spyware bullshit. License sales are one and done per user, so there’s no recurring revenue there. And probably even less than that because everyone – individual users at least – just pirates Windows anyway.
I know I sure as hell do. And I’m not recommending anyone else not do so, either…
absolutely legendary you are mate
lol
lmao even
Look, I don't trust Statista numbers at all.
People are free to disagree on that one, Statista most of all. But what I think is undeniable is that these sub-percentage point changes are entirely within their margin of error (same goes for Steam, incidentally). You can look at trends over time, -and I think it's pretty undeniable Win11 has struggled to onboard the Win10 userbase-, but I wouldn't overreact to these short term updates.
I don’t know much about statista, but yeah the steam numbers linux users love to cite regularly fluctuate by like 25% and windows usage has been shown to basically depend on how active the chinese market is.
I think many people in here need to realise that most people don’t care about their OS, or Copilot or Recall or anything like that. I don’t know what the reason is for this but most people don’t change their OS.
Most people care about knowing how to use their OS, with as few changes as possible. If they use Windows at work, they will most likely get Windows if they have a computer at home.
If you have ever taught someone how to print and it took 5 minutes. You should know why they want it to be as close to the same at every computer they step up too.
Some people hate search functions but at the end of the day I use the keyboard for most things. So if I’m on a Windows machine, I want to be able to hit the windows key and start typing cmd, outlook, whatever. On a Mac cmd space, and start typing disk utility, or whatever it is. If I walk up to any Windows or Mac in the last 10 years and approach it that way it will work. If I walk up to a new Linux distro, I can only remember terminal, and then I have to glance around to figure out what browsers might be on it, what software names exist to figure out what I actually need for file formats etc.
If it is my home computer, that’s fine. I will know what flavor of each application I have installed and have it set up in a way that is quick usage.
If I walk into a library and it had that, it likely would double the time needed to get done whatever it was I needed to do. People want uniform working devices across all work machines and public settings. It sucks that it is owned by the rich, but I don’t see that changing overnight.
KDE offers a better user experience than MacOS or Windows (haven’t used 11 though). It really took off in the last years.
By default it’s similar to Windows but you can completely customize the look and feel without touching a terminal/console. It has inbuilt stores with user contributed themes, icons, backgrounds, widgets and extensions. Some of those can make KDE really shiny.
Then you can completley change the layout of the Desktop. Add panels (alias taskbars), add different buttons and functions to the panels change their positions. The widgets KDE comes with are very nice too. Especially the hardware monitor ones. I use HW-mon widgets for temperatures, diskspace, ram, network-activity e.g.
You can add as much virtual desktops as you want. You can activate desktop animations for things like switching between virtual desktops or window overviews. With an extension like Krohnkite you can automatically arrange your windows. You can change most keyboard combos for the various functions of the desktop.
KDE is based on the superior Qt programming framework and is therefore pretty optimized and most of the apps are pretty consistent in their design language unless they’re written for the concurrent desktop environment Gnome whose apps can also be run under KDE.
Alt+F2 opens a KRunner overlay which is KDEs universal search for applications documents, web, even open tabs in browsers. You could also open the Kickstarter (Startmenu) via the Windows-key and enter the application name right away.
Browsernames are the same. Just search them via KRunner. The best way to install software for newbies is a package manager which is included on user-friendly distros like Fedora, Mint, OpenSUSE, Kububtu. You open the package-manager/appstore search for the application you want to install and click install. Huge Advantage: With every OS-Update all the software you installed via a package manager gets automatically updated along with the OS packages.
Generally if you come from Windows use KDE. There other desktop environments like Cinnamon or Mate similar to Windows but none come close to KDE. If you feel adventureous and want to learn a completely new desktop workflow use Gnome.
The first and most important choice is to choose a good Distribution. I’m using EndeavourOS and Arch. They are extremely good distros but maybe not the best for beginners (although Endeavour is not too bad with onboarding).
Fedora or OpenSUSE could ease the learning curve.
I’m now recommending family members and relatives to switch to Macs if they’re not willing to install Linux on their PC.
I’m trying really hard to educate them about how intrusive Windows 11 is. But in the end, it’s like Facebook or whatever. They just don’t care about their online privacy and how their personal information is handled. Sometimes I don’t even know why I try.
The fact that any company is able to show you ads after you PAID for their shit is bonkers to me. Don’t get me started on repair and being able to unlock the bootloader on your device. No wonder education is very expensive and extremely hard to attain. They love the uneducated, so they can fuck them hard like that. Fuck all of them.
Microsoft, this is like windows vista all over again. Make it less shitty, get rid of all the crap you’re pushing and make it faster. Call it windows 12 and if it’s good we’ll buy it. Worked for XP, worked for 10. How do you still not get this?
.
“But people love getting spammed with advertisements…” -Shareholders
But has Netcraft confirmed it?
I don’t like all the changes in Windows 11, but by and large it’s been fine for me.
I’m definitely not going to be forced to Windows 11. I’ll probably install Linux on my now three year old PC until it falls apart and I need a new one. Or I might just go back to Mac, which I used exclusively for 7 years in the 2010’s.
If Microsoft thinks they can intimidate or push me to 11, they’re sorely mistaken.
Lol was windows 11 was a scam to make companies pay for future security updates this whole time?
I thought it was a scam to force people to buy new computers with TPM chips and whatever bullshit CPU requirements win11 has?
Windows it’s scams all the way down now.
It’s simple: Ain’t nobody got time for your bullshit, Microsoft.
I’m on Windows 7. When I saw Windows 8, I said “Guess I’ll wait until windows 9”.
When I saw Windows 10, I said “Guess I’ll wait for Windows 11.”
When I saw Windows 11, I said “Guess I’ll wait until Windows 12.”
Now I’m saying…seriously, did NO ONE else notice they skipped Windows 9??? It went 7-8-10-11.
People noticed, there were videos about it at the time, we just stopped caring about a number. Apple did the same thing and skipped an iPhone number afaik.
I always just assumed 7 ate 9… I’ll see myself out.
Oh yeah. The number 9 is superstitious in some East Asian cultures, like the Chinese. Its pronunciation is similar to “unlucky” or “suffering” so people try not to use it, like some buildings skip the 13th floor. But it’s not unique. In Japan, the numbers 4 and 7 sound like death so they use alternative pronunciations. Another popular Asian belief similar to Astrology divinates personalities based on blood types.
Since Windows is a global product, MS execs decided to skip the number due to cultural sensitivity. They also wanted to close the gap with the Mac versioning and present it as a big improvement over Win 8, so it was probably a strategic decision for various reasons.
because calling it Windows 9 would have messed up software that checked if it was running on Windows 95.
Skipping 9 was due to a combination of marketting (“It’s nothing like 8 was, we swear! It’s not even 9, it’s 10!”) and ye olde third party software developers making the poor decision to query the OS name instead of the OS version to set some compatibility stuff.
They skipped to 10 because it was going to be the last version of Windows and just be updated from there. Then they scrapped that and released 11.
IIRC that was just a poorly worded statement from a rather unimportant ms employee who really wanted to say “it’s the latest version of Windows”.
I wonder if 8.1 was intended to be 9 and was never released as such
Our old asses are over here learning mint and Ubuntu on new machines. That wasn’t on our 30s-40s disco card.
It’s fun. Everything looks good, then attach the external monitor to the laptop and it won’t detect. There’s a workaround, there’s almost always a workaround, but these basics of windows are in pieces in Linux.
The basic expectations with windows, like monitor detection, aren’t necessarily there.
Spite is a hell of a fuel though. Oh and I still have my win 10 disc and put a fresh install on another machine.
Mint and Ubuntu are Debian based.
Try something Fedora based. I’ve had far less issues with it when it comes to hardware.
I’ve tried quite a few distros on an MSI I got and it wouldn’t recognize dual monitors with Nvidia drivers on any I tried. I went with fedora, Debian based ones, kde, etc. And none worked. Had to go back to Windows on that laptop.
Ah my work laptop had the same issue but as soon as I saw it didn’t work I just switched to windows and it worked.
The only laptop I keep permanently Linuxed I use as a VPS lol. Got Nextcloud on it and a few bots.
that’s switchable graphics for you. nvidia refuse to spill their secret sauce so all the effort in supporting that over the past 10 years have been clean-room reverse engineering. the only way it will ever get any good is if nvidia does it, or if they open it up.
Hmm. Switchable graphics. Do you mean like integrated & GPU? I didn’t think that could affect dual screen setup. Guess maybe it could? Idk.
Each GPU has a limited number of display outputs (also called display pipelines or display controllers). as an example, the macbook air can only support the built-in display and one external display. This is a hardware limitation of its GPU architecture. When using multiple displays on laptops that support it, some systems can utilize both the integrated GPU and discrete GPU simultaneously to drive different displays.
Most laptops with discrete Nvidia and AMD GPUs also have onboard/integrated graphics and only use the Nvidia/AMD GPU when something graphically-intensive is happening (playing a game, video editing or encoding/decoding, etc). They call this “hybrid graphics”.
However, the HDMI port on the laptop (as well as the USB-C graphics) is wired directly to the Nvidia GPU (I’ll call this the “dGPU” from now on). This means that when an external monitor is plugged in but nothing graphically intense is being done, the screen is rendered on the iGPU, then sent to the dGPU to send over the HDMI port.
The hand-off between the dGPU and iGPU (called “reverse PRIME”) is basically voodoo magic. People have tried to get it working in Linux, but there’s a bunch of issues with it.
To get dual monitors working properly on my work laptop (Lenovo X1 Extreme Gen5 with an RTX3050), I have to go into the BIOS and force it to only use the dGPU (disable the hybrid mode). If I don’t do that, the external monitor renders at maybe 5fps? A coworker got it working by instead forcing the Nvidia card to always use a high clock speed for the RAM instead of reducing it to save power, but I haven’t tired that.
This is a laptop-specific problem, only for laptops with hybrid graphics. I have no problems using three monitors on a desktop PC.
I didn’t know basically anything in your entire comment yet you explained it pretty clearly. Thanks for a learning experience 😊
The Framework laptops with AMD dGPU has a port on the back of the laptop that comes directly from the dGPU, but you can also have an HDMI module on the side of the laptop, and it outputs to my 4k TV just fine (I guess depending on distro/setup, but Bazzite does it automagically). It uses both cards dynamically, and will engage the dGPU if needed.
But yeah, I mean that’s hardware made specifically for Linux, and the Bazzite image is specifically for FW, so…
Yeah I think Framework does it well and they’ve worked with AMD to have first class Linux support. AMD have submitted bug fixes to the Linux kernel specifically for the Framework laptops. For Linux, AMD is a much better choice than Nvidia. I’ve got a Framework 16 but don’t have the dGPU.
At work I have to use a Lenovo with Nvidia graphics though, with Fedora or Windows (or a MacBook Pro, but Apple is not for me). I’ve got a desktop (ThinkStation P620) and a laptop (X1 Extreme Gen5).
My personal desktop PC has a GTX1080. I don’t really game on it any more so I’ve considered buying a roughly equivalent AMD GPU second-hand to have a better experience on Linux. Honestly I’d be fine with onboard graphics but the CPU (an older Ryzen) doesn’t have onboard graphics.
Ah, yeah, MSI Nvidia does have issues in general for some reason. At that point basically only Arch or similar that’s more advanced would fix the problem, and at that point it does make sense for most users to stick with Windows.
I’d recommend what others here say and get an iot version or using a Rufus install in those cases of Windows though, to avoid all the telemetry etc.
I would but my cares are pretty much gone rn. I don’t have enough time to do anything nowadays except work, doomscroll and sleep. Much less to start messing with weird stuff and breaking my $2800 laptop for fun hahah. I think I’ll keep it as it came. I hope Bill Gates one day wakes up and looks at a sneak pic of my balls. If I get fired I’ll boot up my work laptop and install Arch on it though. Always wanted to try it!
Should clarify: I meant the IoT LTSC version of Windows. It gets support for much longer too, since it sounded like you reinstalled Windows anyway. Plus games and RAM heavy software work snappier on those cleaner, more minimal versions of Windows. It made a difference even on my 7.5k water cooled desktop. You’d think 128gb of DDR5 RAM, 7900x3D, 3090 computer wouldn’t have any slow down, but base Windows is REALLY bloated - enough that even at those specs you can notice a difference on a gen 5 m.2 ssd. I still use Windows for some modded games and a specific audio program. Oh, and CAD software.
Same with my girlfriend’s 2k gaming laptop. Startup and such is way faster now.
Plus no telemetry or ads as a bonus of course.
Will intensely think about it. Last I heard no bitlocker. Will research this week.
Me: Debian? Fedora? Why are you making up words as if I speak other languages you made up???
they are both like 20 year-old operating systems (linux distros)
#include <iostream>
int main() { std::cout << “no, this is a different language” << std::endl; return 0; }
(All joking aside, the content was made for someone who already knew what a Distro was. If you want to know, feel free to ask for more info)
A lot of the time I’ll “get” jokes. I don’t find most of them funny, but I get the joke. Then someone will accuse me of not being smart enough to get the joke. It’s like “no no, I got the punchline…it’s just not funny.” Then I get insulted that they think I’m dumb.
With your joke…yeah…I actually am too dumb to get it. Part of me thinks Lemmy had some script error, and part of me thinks you’re making some script based joke…in any event, give that joke some wings, because it just flew over my head.
Fedora is a type of hat bruh
I plugged in a monitor yesterday on my work laptop 's HDMI port and it did nothing. After some troubleshooting I apparently had to unplug the USB-C dock for it to work. Let’s not pretend Windows is smooth sailing all the time.
At a meeting I was given some kind of remote dongle to duplicate my screen to a monitor and it did nothing. Had to run some exe first. Again, not plug and play.
But there was always a workaround.
Is it a Dell? I’ve had all kinds of goofy problems like that with Dell hardware. The old ass port replicator my job gave me in 2014 can run 3 screens + laptop flawlessly but every one I’ve received since then can only do 2 screens or 3 screens and no laptop. It’s stupid.
My work dell has that stupid issue too.
Or at least it did, until I booted into Mint for the first time. 4 screens immediately usable. Boot back into Windows and it goes back to not working. You get one monitor mirrored.
Maybe they have some shady limitation in a driver unless you have the highest end models?
does it swap if you hit windows+P? as in hold down the windows key and press the P at the same time? you should be able to hit it a few times to toggle the external display mode. i haven’t used windows much in the last decade so that might not work any longer
Literally on Thanksgiving I pulled my work Mac out to do some stuff. It didn’t know my monitor from home was unplugged. I had to find hotkeys to move windows to the current display because Settings was opening on the non existent display which it also thought was the main one.
That is to say, even macOS gets this shit wrong. There is no perfect OS.
one method that helps is to not think of it as a workaround but as assembling a kit. the base system only comes with what everyone will need, and adding on an extra piece makes it more yours. that also helps with motivation to do a good job of it.
What if I want to pay a little extra to get something ready-to-run? Windows for me then?
macos, probably.
Look into Framework or System76
I want to order a taco. Not the ingredients for a taco.
well unfortunately desktop computers are kitchens, not restaurants. if you want a device purely for consumption, a pc is not the right choice.
The Steam Deck and it’s desktop mode are why I decided to try jumping head first into a single boot of Bazzite on my main computer, it’s basically like using a Steam deck, just across four monitors, a year in and I haven’t looked back.
Sunshine worked right out the box too. Very much recommend bazzite. Tried pop os and just could not get sunshine to work with my 3060.
linux desperately needs/needed something like apple for macOS to drive usability. the steam deck is exactly that- one hardware set to really nail the UX and then expand from there.
thanks for the recommendation, I’m going to give that a try myself!
Another recommendation for Bazzite. I’ve been using it on my main laptop for months now and it’s been great. Had to learn a little bit about how to install things on immutable distros (tip, search using “silverblue” instead of “bazzite,” the solution will be the same), but now that I understand it, I really like it as a concept. Incredibly stable.
Oh and gaming just works. Bazzite comes pre-configured for gaming (and that includes monitor switching, etc).
On my work machine, just a Dell laptop with a dock and some monitors, Mint Cinnamon actually gave me a better out-of-box than win10.
I didn’t try Mint until 21 (the version before current) and it’s just so smooth now.
that’s why i switched to a mac instead of linux. i love linux on my servers, but for day to day productivity? nothing beats the “turn it on and go” of a mac. of course you pay for it with money (for a mac) or time (for linux)
but at least i don’t get full screen ads for windows 11!
Can I put an Nvidia 4090 in a mac for AI and gaming purposes?
do you really not know the answer to that?
No, I have an IQ below 42, pardon my mental disability sir.
We have a job opening for you in the coming administration, are you going to be available for a job starting in january ?
you must have a sad life to throw politics in so randomly. stop watching Fox News and get some sunshine
I was almost gonna be a smartass and say you can, but then I realized that there are no nVidia drivers. You CAN use an AMD external GPU on newer Intel Macs, but even the newest Intel Mac is pretty old now. They still get software support, but the performance isn’t comparable to Apple Silicon anymore, so you’d have to sacrifice a lot of CPU power and efficiency to be able to use an eGPU that doesn’t even have CUDA.
I tried the apple ecosystem way back when.
Fuck me I hated iTunes!
So glad to be out of that walled garden
I like my work Mac but I’d never buy one myself. They’re extremely overpriced.
I generally like my work mac, but external monitor support (used as an example against Linux here) is awful.
Sure, if you connect one (1) monitor and still use the laptop screen, it’s fine. But try to connect multiple, or disable the laptop screen, or try to lock the dock to your main monitor and you have to jump through all sorts of hoops or it just doesn’t work.
In the end, macos is just another OS, a good one in general, but definitely not without it’s quirks and issues. I run Arch (btw) with KDE/Plasma on my own desktop and am very happy with it
Strange. I have a displaylink box ar home. My Ubuntu machine works first time every time. My wife’s Windows 11 PC takes 10 minutes of stuffing around every time I try to connect it.
Sometimes I wonder what’s going on with other peoples’ setups. Like where do all these issues come from?
I just plug in my external monitors, usually through the usb-c hub at work so both of them at the same time. But sometimes just a single one. Always gets detected. I’ve had Debian and now TumbleWeed on my work computer, neither gave me an issue with this.
There are other issues I’m having - such as I wish I didn’t have to open the lid for a second and then close it back when I’ve just connected the externals and want to use it in clamshell mode (as Apple calls it; idk if there’s a name for it outside of Mac/Apple). But all the expected functionality is there.
.
Honestly, I don’t get the hate of Windows 11. Sure, compatibility is a shitshow but if you can install it, it’s better than W10. I updated a couple months back and was pleasantly surprised. Things I like:
Things that got worse:
Disclaimer: I only use my Windows computer for playing games. I do all of my regular day to day computing on my laptop with Fedora (KDE spin because
I’m not a godless heathenI like it better). I’m also running the Education version, which is basically Enterprise so I have feature updates straight up turned off and only get security updates. It also doesn’t have any ads but my ROG Ally has W11 Home and it doesn’t have any ads either, so I don’t even know what’s real anymore.There’s a registry hack for the right click menu. I run it on every new computer that I set up at work, either at setup or when someone calls to complain about it.
By the time i was editing registry and doing all sorts of other power user shit... i realize i should just switch to linux lol
Yup! I made the switch a couple years ago personally, but it turns out that corporate device management for Linux is a huge PITA for mediocre functionality.
Oh, yeah, already did it. I was more so speaking to the experience a regular user would get out of the box.
It’s already a custom or tradition to hate Windows regardless of the version.
I agree that Windows 11 has good and bad things.
In addition, the news is a bit sensationalist in my opinion because it talks about only a small crash that it had in November.
Yep. Honestly, Lemmy feels like a circlejerk sometimes.
How do they judge? How do I look at market?
They link their source in the article, and the source has a FAQ which has their methodology explained in the first question. You are capable of looking at market, you just need to, y’know…look.
In short, they are among the 867 partners on your favorite website who want to install cookies on your browser for analytics. OS info is included in what it reports back home.
They’re still too hardheaded to get it
you misspelled greedy
Samediff
They’re purposely not getting it.
An ad blitz doesn’t matter if your product is junk. Make something that isn’t garbage if you want to retain people, people want good products.
Me: Hmmmmmm, maybe it’s time for a new PC. Lets see what’s out there.
Stores: Windows 10 and 11
Me: Nevermind!
May I interest you in our lord and saviour linux?
You mean, THIS LINUX???
.
Yeah, I use and love Linux, but it’s unusable on random unsupported hardware.
For the person who posted it, it could also be that the hardware IS supported, but it’s so obscure that no mainstream distro includes it in their kernel build, not even as a module.
Of course, for the average person, not having the kernel module built pretty much means it’s unsupported.
That’s why I wish they’d release a concept like the Raspberry Pi, but for fully realized mini-pc’s. The thing I love about it is I could have 10 SD cards all sitting in a box. And I slide one in, now my raspberry pi is a retro gaming emulation machine.
Then I turn it off. Slide a different SD card in. Now it’s a pihole.
Slide a different card in, now it’s home automation.
Any new distro you want to try, slide out the sd card, slide in a new one. Your old distro is saved exactly how it was. Just slide it back in, and it’s exactly like you left it.
No commitment.
And the hardware is centralized. So if the distro is built for the raspberry pi, you KNOW it’ll work. The downside is, it’s a rinky dink little arm machine.
Except with real PCs users expect some performance, so these would have to be swappable NVMes. Which is of course prohibitively expensive.
But for a Raspberry, yeah, the ability to turn my Kodi box into a game console is awesome
Maybe get a Steam Deck? Only kind of joking… Switch to Desktop Mode, and it’s literally a fully functioning Linux PC with an immutable distro
Aren’t those things like $700?
256GB LCD model is currently $399 (you might be able to get refurbished for cheaper). They have an SD card slot.
Take a look at the comments, they explain the issues very well
Microsoft has realised they have a captive market and are milking it for every dollar (euro, pound, yen, rupee…) they can get.
It isn’t really captive.
People are rapidly moving away from laptop/desktop computers and applications now a days are predominantly web based which means people can use anything that runs Chrome.
You are overestimating the capabilities of the average person. They don’t care its all in the browser. Their “computer looks different” and becomes unusable to them. Tech-illiterate people have a hard time with the concept that all browser based things basically work the same independent of OS.
Soon this is going to have the same energy as a delivery driver that can’t parallel park.
Yeah, but a lot of work things are painfully uncomfortable to use on a phone (ERP and EMR software is so much easier to use with a keyboard, mouse and properly sized screen) and most companies aren’t going to be running Linux because of all the extra support load, nor are they going to yeet Macs at regular everyday users. Chromebooks don’t really get taken seriously in corporate environments IMO.
Similarly, home users who are old school and still want to have a computer - some will switch to Macs, power users will switch to Linux (and switch their family to Linux), but many will just use Windows. Some will use Chromebooks, but those have a bad rep because they used to always be the lowest spec possible (I think it’s gotten better now?)
And finally, gamers - personally I use Linux for gaming. Hell, I used Gentoo Linux for years. Yes, for gaming. But a lot of people, particularly younger folks, want to play games with invasive anti-cheat. And those don’t run on Linux.
This is gonna blow your mind, but most (real) phones you can connect a mouse and keyboard to, either via Bluetooth, or with a USBC adapter, and they work fine.
I know. But then you also need a screen. At which point why not have a device that can run a desktop OS?
Phones have screens already!
No they don’t, they have tiny keyholes to look through
Businesses are bound to Microsoft Office products which only reliably work on Windows and Mac. Windows is the cheaper of the two, by far, and there are way more IT professionals that are able to work comfortably managing Windows systems than Mac ones.
Join the dark side 🐧
The dork side, you say?
Hell yeah brother
I work at an MSP and a lot of our clients have to follow specific security compliance standards. Because Windows 10 is eol soon, we’ve been slowly upgrading folks to 11. I die a little each time I do an upgrade. People, including my coworkers and I, are not happy with it overall, but nobody can do anything because ✨compliance standards✨
thank goodness for bsd/mac/linux
Is Ubuntu compliant?
In the corporate world ? Generally not, because IT can’t force group policy out using AD.
One of the biggest hurdles, and one of the only reasons Windows is still alive. Linux doesn’t have a decent AD alternative.
I think I heard some very large governments, maybe Germany, was going to completely abandon Windows soon. This will generate a ton of demand for an AD alternative so I’m excited to see what happens.
Until then you have ansible, or salt may be more suitable for workstations 🤷
Oh there is policy, telemetry and lockdown software for Linux. My BYOD archlinux worked fine until a company I contract for rolled out their zero trust bollocks. They wanted me to install Ubuntu, Redhat or SLES and their spyware.
They now sent me a corporate Win11 laptop for remote access.
I know executives don’t tend to go for it but you could always get in a ESU for 3 years past the EoL date. That was semi popular with Windows 7.
That involves money and clients don’t want to do that lol. It’s like pulling teeth to get them to replace shit
Windows 11 is a privacy invasion. It’s the worst OS I have ever used for a day and a half.
Windows 11 is: buggy (Remember That bug where AMD Cpus where slow with 11), slow,maybe training your personal data on ai (Maybe),Very Ugly,Cannot be customized.
I hate Windows 11, for a multitude of reasons. But it is still a better experience than Vista. An unbelievably better than Windows ME. Windows ME for me was the worst desktop OS I think I’ve ever used. If we open it up to just any old OS, then I want to say Novell was the worst I ever used.
I was fortunately running top of the line hardware when Vista came out. I didn’t understand all the hate at all… until I sat down and did some work on my uncle’s computer with Vista Basic. Holy shit, even with all of the features that required better hardware removed from the OS, it was the slowest and most miserable experience I ever had on a computer. It was brand new and covered in stickers advertising Vista and it still wasn’t capable of running the damn OS.
That was true with nearly every computer I touched that had it on it.
Mine was awesome though. No complaints.
I haven’t used 11, but it sounds like they’ve done it again.
I feel like I’m alone in this but Vista was great. I preferred it and 8 over 7 and 10.
How? The 7 and 10 are among the better received versions of Windows, for stability, performance, hardware compatibility, etc. What was your experience with Vista that was so good and 7 and 10 being so bad?
Everything that people liked about 7 was a thing in Vista. AFAIK, people hate on Vista for performance, the automatic updates and the admin access pop-ups. The first one is because they tried to upgrade old XP hardware, a new system ran fine. 7 didn’t really increase performance, people just had new computers by that point. The other 2 issues never changed since, people just got used to them.
8 had an amazing search feature that got completely garbled in 10. The “start menu” wasn’t well received, but worked fine. 10 brought back a smaller compromise version of it. 10 also has much more telemetry, came with the Cortana and default edge Bing searches and had overall a much less pleasant experience.
I feel like Vista and 8 get a bad rep because they where so different from the previous ones, even though they rolled some of that into the successors and worked really well. And 10 really accelerated the enshitification of Windows.
I am 21 and have been a windows user since I was 6. Windows 10 was the last windows OS I ever used and after that used linux for a while and eventually switched to Mac, and I am glad I did. Windows 11 has a bunch of visual upgrades which just ruin the experience and makes it difficult to navigate around. Also the fact that I need to purchase a new laptop to be able to use it when my old one is perfectly fine.
Didn’t you need new laptop for MacOS as well?
I did, and about an year ago my laptop broke and my brother had been using a Macbook Pro from 2017, which still works just great, which hasn’t been the case for most windows laptops which are just as old in my experience.
I’ve been a lifetime Windows user, and the handful of times I had to use Mac was like pulling teeth. Every UI convention is slightly different, and I remember I found the file manager odd too.
When games work so well on Linux these days, it seems to me that there is absolutely no reason for Windows to exist anymore. Why does anyone use it?
I am used to it. I don’t like the app store of Ubuntu and manually installing software on Linux is vastly different.
But Win11 is forcing me to Ubuntu. It’s the same but with commercials.
Why do you need an app store?
Ease of installing I would say. Most people do not need nor want to learn how to install stuff using terminal. An app store is necessary for your regular Joe using the Operating system.
There are decent GUI installers for most, if not all, major Linux distros. They may not be as full-featured as the CLI versions, but they are sufficient for average users.
You don’t always need the terminal. If the software is available in a deb package, you just double click it and hit Install. But, you’re right, most people don’t want to learn apt or any other command, and I get that.
Edit: Autocorrect
I don’t want an app store. But I don’t want to jump through too many hoops when installing Software. I like the “Installer” concept.
Go to Mint, Ubuntu is owned by Canonical and they’re doing ad shit too
Just switched from win 10 to Linux mint today. Feels good, games running faster than before even. The only thing that doesn’t work is the invasive anti cheat shit for multiplayer games. But I get merked every time in multiplayer so screw it
Especially for buisnesses its hard to switch. A lot of specialised software is not supported on Linux and often there isn’t any form of good replacement.
Still needed for VR games.
Aw shit! Thought there was nothing left that would keep me from completely ditching windows (htpc, pihole, homelab … everything but my workstation is Linux already). I recently got a headset tho and quite enjoy it… What a bummer :(
Not needed, many VR games work fine under Proton. Unlike desktop though, not “plug and play”. If you’re ready to spend time troubleshooting, give Linux VR a try with SteamVR or Monado through Envision. If you just want to play VR, stick to Windows for now.
Yes, you can technically get some games working. If you use the right VR headset (meaning Valve Index or Vive), use the right distro, with the right compositor and right GPU, spend a lot of time troubleshooting, then you can maybe get a few games to start. Camera passthrough won’t work, power management won’t work (no control for base stations), Bluetooth won’t work, tracking won’t be as good, you will experience weird bugs and crashes of both the games and SteamVR, and you will get less FPS than on Windows. And even with that inferior experience, most games still won’t run.
I spent a lot of time trying despite this being the experience for most people online, and I only confirmed that it’s the case. Windows is absolutely needed if you want a good experience. Hopefully Valve changes that in the future, but that’s the case today.
Not entirely. SteamVR on Linux is almost that bad, yes. With ALVR you can try to use standalones on SteamVR, but it’s not very stable. Most games will “run” under SteamVR and modern proton, I’ve only encountered a few situations where they don’t, once again caused by kernel level anticheat. SteamVR does have major issues with stability and reprojection, which makes the VR experience much worse overall.
However, Monado and WiVRN (+ OpenComposite) are great when using Envision. Not all games run, and some have input issues, but it’s significantly better than SteamVR. With a couple overlays, you can get most functions working as expected, like desktop view, camera passthrough, etc.
As for “power management” and “bluetooth”, the only thing the Valve Index uses bluetooth for is power management. That doesn’t work in the drivers on Linux, but there are scripts you can use if you have a separate bluetooth dongle. It’s not a full fix, but not as painful as using an Android app or unplugging the basestations.
As we both noted, it requires setup and troubleshooting, and as someone who uses Linux for VR gaming too, I can’t recommend it to the average person. That does not make Windows a “requirement”, just much easier and the better plug and play experience.
Sure, as I said “Windows is absolutely needed if you want a good experience”. Yes, it’s not required to get something working if you try hard enough, but it is required if you want everything to work well.
I keep a Windows virtual machine with GPU passthrough for VR and don’t see myself ditching it any time soon. At least I don’t need to boot into Windows.
Btw, anyone got Reshade 5+ working in wine/proton?
Never had a problem with Reshade. You could use steamtinkerlaunch to do it more easily or just config Wine to overwrite the .dll needed for Reshade(I think is the dxgi.dll).
If that doesn’t work you can pass a argument on steam/gog/lutris/heroic/whatever to replace the .dll. I’m linking a guide to mod Cyberpunk 2077 on linux but the instructions works for any game and any .dll just change the name.
Main reason would be “why not?” windows is also working great for most common use cases. Actually there is not much difference nowadays between OSes. Another reason would be specific software like Excel. Why would you switch your OS adlnd most of the software you use if you don’t gain much from it.
I’ve a Linux OS for coding, OSX for work and Windows for gaming. There are absolutely no problems with any of them. Windows worked great last 4 years, no virusesor performance issues without anti-virus or tweaking. Linux drivers needed work at the start but now there is no issues, Mac is similar. Only issue is when I try to code with Windows it feels annoying but it is mostly because I’m doing things with CLI where I should have used GUI.
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Hardware support is still an issue. I recently tried to use Linux on my laptop, it didn’t work out primarily because not all of the hardware was supported. I thought it was when I bought the laptop but the documentation of what actually works and doesn’t work isn’t clear or accurate so I ended up with a laptop that can technically run Linux but has various hardware in it will not function and likely never will.
My work is 90% on Adobe software and my main game nowadays in Genshin 🙃 I checked ProtonDB for the rest of my games, and many are gold or worse. Having to mess around with command line stuff is already annoying in Windows, I don’t want to have to do more of it, which seems to be the case with all Linux versions I’ve read about.
Who thought that puting ridiculous minimum requirements so your spyware can work better would mean that lots of people without newer hardware just won’t upgrade.
because windows 2000 was peak windows
As much as I loved 2000, XP was better and 7 the best ever.
2000 was the pioneer though, it was such a huge step forward in every way
Yes, Win2k, WinXP, and Win7 were all major leaps forward in various areas. Imagine if 8 had been just a major cleanup of Windows 7 and unifying the various settings paradigms, how much better that would have been.
But alas, Windows 8 was the ‘oh crap, tablets and phones might eat our lunch’ release and the focus was throwing the desktop/laptop experience under the bus to try to cater to sensibilities of markets they were never going to capture. Also, to have their own ‘app store’ to try to wrestle a google/apple like revenue model for applications running on the platform.
If MS had put any focus on allowing skins/themes for Windows, the touch market would have just been an extra feature. There is no technical reason they couldn’t have, as evidenced by the third-party apps that allowed legacy skins on previous versions, such as 8 and 10. But they needed that lock-in and forced experience, rather than giving people the choice.
I will confess that I think making windows UI appropriate for tablet or phone has to be more than a skinning exercise. E.g. software interacting with a mouse pointer unable to deal with more vague and multiple touches. UI elements needing different spacing for the form factor. A different scheme for switching full screen tasks and recognizing that traditional windowing isn’t going to be very helpful in a smaller than 9" format.
Unfortunately windows basically favored touch at the expense of traditional desktop, when their home turf was very much not touch enabled.
Windows 8 was actually a big cleanup over 7. We got a much improved task manager, Explorer got a ribbon, copy operations now showed a graph, and performance was very similar to Win7. It was just that Microsoft overshadowed these improvements with the UI disaster and telemetry.
We’ll have to disagree with the ribbon being an improvement, but the rest definitely count.
Long time Linux user here. The smoothest OS I’ve ever used was xp64. That just ran like butter. Unfortunately, it was killed off to push people to Vista.
Windows ME was peak.
Let me tel… … … … … … sorry, my ME froze
its funny since windows me was just windows 2000 but worse since they didnt have to worry about business customers
Windows ME was actually some Windows 2000 bits glued onto Windows 98. That’s why it was so terrible, it was kind of an afterthought when initial plans for ‘2k for everyone’ got abandoned as they realized the home app ecosystem needed more compatibility workarounds than they were prepared to offer. So instead of completing the 2k based product line, they just '2k’ed up Win98 to satisfy their then-current release cadence and make sure home market had a ‘current’ OS to go with the 2k professional line.
Announcing in 2025
Windows Buntu we bring the U in Windows … Actually that would be nice for Ubuntu to slowly suffocate and take over Windows lol
The bunt has been on the path of enshitification itself for many years no thanks.
im forced to use it at work and holy shit. 11 is so heavy for no reason, 8gb of ram is not remotely enough anymore, even if you yank out some of the garbage. theres no apparent change in functionality to justify it.
the ssd smart says its almost at its end, and i suspect its because its constantly swapping. paging file is always full, unless i set it to something big like 8+ gb
I’m pegged at 95% RAM usage all day at work 16 gigs and I’m not doing anything too heavy. Windows is a bloated gross mess
Same but I blame work. My surface tablet at home is vanilla windows professional and memory usage is fine with 16gb.
That said I don’t use Chrome at home and Chrome is absolutely insane with memory consumption
Yeah, as much as Windows feels… subpar for my day to day vanilla, it really turns crappy with my corporate’s mandated load. System is constantly chewing on some bloat from one of the various ‘security’, monitoring, or fix management solutions that they have on this.
Unfortunately, if a company pitches their extra crap as ‘enhancing security’, the execs just have to say yes, because to be an exec who ever said ‘no’ to more security is to put your job at peril. Even if three of that vendor’s competitors already got their equivalent solutions into the load already…
And fucking Teams.
Wow, what is running in your background though?
I have Windows 11 and it uses a total of 5.6 GB of RAM (I’m also using a Surface Pro 7 if that matters) at idle. I would bring up task manager and see where all that RAM is going.
5.6 GB RAM usage on idle, I presume on a fresh boot, is just outrageous for an OS, especially relative to 8 o 16 GB total RAM.
Wait until you see what the new OSs will need soon. Windows Copilot+ PC, macOS with Apple Intelligence, and newer versions of Android all have a starting need of 16GB (for background AI processes that are done on device). I doubt they will have a small idle RAM footprint.
(iPhone and iPad OS hasn’t been stated for their RAM requirements, but they never do.)
True, good points!
That’s wild… I’m currently running Steam and Firefox and I’m at about 8GB.
Bazzite with KDE Plasma. I loaded up on RAM this time when I got this laptop, and I haven’t even come close to maxing it out lol. It’s nice to not have to worry about though.
And I can still run a 2010 MacBook with 4GB to do photo editing and render non HD video
Bloat is too mild a word for Windows
It’s just a hunch, but my suspicion is it’s already capturing a lot of data for Recall to process later after it’s launched.
I can’t think of any other reasonable explanation for the severe performance decrease on Windows 11.
I think it’s simpler than that.
I think Windows 11 feels unresponsive because of how many features have Internet-enabled features built deep into them. All those little delays opening menus, etc, I think are actually network delay, so the little ads or other stuff have time to fetch and load and show simultaneously with the rest of the UI. Meaning the UI itself has to be delayed slightly to make it less obvious what’s being fed to you from online vs local.
Nothing makes my Windows 11 PC shit the bed harder than an unreliable or interrupted Internet connection. Literally crashing the whole PC sometimes.
Could be they already have their servers processing the data, and Recall is just their effort to offload the processing cost to the end user.
Or it’s just straight up spying.
They 100% are spying and not even hiding it. That isnt what makes a system laggy though as its just a background process snitching on you once and hour or so.
Walk me through that thinking. You believe constantly capturing screen grabs/key presses/file content/etc, processing it, packaging it, and sending to the home servers would have no impact on system resources?
its not grabbing screen grabs and and key presses as you do them, its logging things that you interact with in the background and then packaging that up as a telemetry package to asynchronously send off to a server.
No it doesnt have no impact on resources but it negligable compared to what the previous poster mentioned about making everything dependent on network services and introducing latency that way.
You should read up on Recall. It is openly designed to use screen grabs. And my suspicion is they’re already collecting the data for it.
Yes I am aware of recall, and that it is only available on specific AI focused PCs (copilot+). Dont get me wrong its a been a complete clusterfuck in they way they have done it, but if windows was using regular windows installs to gather screenshots and then phone them home it would be both incredibly stupid on Microsoft’s part (for a huge amount of companies that would be a deal breaker) and be very discoverable.
No, you’re thinking of the piece that will offload the AI processing to the local machine. They’re likely still capturing everything, and processing at least some of it back at their data centers.
It is discoverable. That’s what we’re doing here. Positing that may be the cause of the significantly increased overhead in Windows 11. If it were simply telemetry, as you’re suggesting, we would’ve seen the same performance hit in Windows 8 & 10. That we’re seeing such a decline from 10 to 11 on the exact same hardware suggests this goes way beyond that.
Saying “new windows is slow as hell” is not evidence that they are capturing and sending off screenshots (which is far more intrusive than even the first fucked up proposal for recall before they walked it back significantly). ME and Vista were both slow as shit too but they weren’t doing this.
Again windows is spying on you, just not in that particular way which would be very easy for security researchers to discover and would be catastrophic for businesses trust in Microsoft if it was discovered.
You need to pick a lane. You gonna play dumb, or present yourself as knowledgeable?
Because anyone knowledgeable enough to be clued in on just how extensively Windows is now spying would also understand that Microsoft lying to all of their customers, and going way over the line with it to the point of illegality, is completely and totally believable and absolutely in line with Microsoft’s pattern of behavior.
Since when has ‘security researchers will eventually catch you’ ever prevented these big tech companies from breaking the law before?
No I don’t need to “pick a lane”, just because Microsoft are awful does not mean any claim about them doing a bad thing is sensible no matter how far fetched. Microsoft do care about how windows is perceived by businesses (as opposed to you and I think about them, which they do not care about), and the risk of doing what you are alleging is very high for them (easy to detect) and would have severe negative consequences for them (oops, cant use windows in healthcare as its leaking PII). To add to this the only evidence you are presenting for it is “windows is slow”.
Yeah, I’m familiar with the arguments. I’ve had this argument with bad actors time & time again every time Microsoft starts rolling out something even worse. It’s always some version of, ‘Microsoft is bad, but they would never do that!’
And then it comes out a year later that they would, in fact, do that.
Do they have you assigned to play devil’s advocate just on Lemmy, or are you tasked with this on the Reddit technology sub, too?
I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding what I am saying. I’m not saying they “wouldn’t do this, they’re not that bad” I’m saying “they wouldn’t do this as it would get them little, they’d get caught and it would have bad blowback for them”.
They’re also not stealing peoples bank accounts or blackmailing people with personal information. Again, just because they are shitbags does not mean every bad thing you can come up with no evidence is true.
‘They’re not doing this thing they already announced they would be doing a couple months back!’
Ok I’m done here if you’re just going to start making shit up. No they did not announce that they would record peoples screenshots without their permission and start uploading them to their servers.
They didn’t announce Recall? They haven’t been caught misusing customer data before? They haven’t been increasing their spying efforts since Windows 8?
Y’all need a new playbook. This might have worked to sell people on Windows changes in the past, but you’ve overused this strategy to the point that it’s lost all plausibility.
No, 8 GB is nothing these days. It’s not an enjoyable experience on Win 10, 12, Linux, or MacOS.
The 8 gigs in my Thinkpad seem fine with Mint
The 8 GB in my ThinkPad is pretty annoying. It’s usable but not enjoyable.
what do you use it for to be filling 8gb on linux?
Opening a few apps fills it up very quickly.
I even run Spotifyd and a cli UI for Spotify because I need to be conservative with my RAM.
curious. im running all regular gui software and i usually only go over 8gb when im pushing it harder. the only time i do consistently is while gaming and even then im always below 16gb.
what distro are you running? do you have KSM enabled?
I would guess a heavy UI, and a couple heavy apps that they don’t close.
I admittedly use xfce, which is much lighter than most, I wouldn’t want to run Gnome or KDE on this machine.
Or I suppose I think I wouldn’t; I’ve been using lightweight desktop environments for a decade or so. I just assume the like Ubuntu or whatever default is going to be slower and RAM-heavy.
8 GB works just fine on my laptop running EndeavourOS. And I know there are much more lightweight distros than that. Not ideal, but fine.
I guess, if you are able to minimize the amount of open programs and browser tabs, it can run fine.
Well yeah, I had been using that laptop for a few years so I knew its limits very well.
My 8GB 13-year old Linux laptop and I would like to disagree
its great on linux (regular distro, not particularly lightweight) and reasonable on windows 10 for me.
unless you are pushing too many tabs and/or many heavy programs
well the market share of Windows 11 has risen significantly on my work laptop, and I can wholehearedly say, I understand why its global market share is falling… random freezes, random restarts, battery life sliced, random starting up from suspend. it’s not great.
meanwhile, Manjaro on my personal Lenovo laptop has been cutting edge with consistent updates for years.
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I was wondering about that. I just got forced to run native Windows 11 by work, and one monitor in my multihead setup just never wakes up automatically, but my Linux install on same hardware has no issue.
I literally left windows because of the incessant ads for 11. The last straw was them forcing copilot on my windows 10 install, but a lot of other things were bugging me way too much before I kicked the bucket. Thankfully I have the help of a friend that uses Linux daily and my boyfriend who just knows a fuckton about computers, but after finishing the initial setup I haven’t really had any issues
Windows is only relevant because of a few key applications, like MS Office (no, libre office doesn’t come close).
office can be used in a browser and mac so why windows?
Because my work enforces a non-english locale and the keyboard shortcuts make no sense 🤷♂️
The browser editions don’t quite fully work for everything.
A coworker manages to make some excel workbooks that just don’t work in the web version, and makes everyone deal with it.
I’ve had to contend with powerpoint decks with ‘features’ that don’t work in the web. For example, one group told me the only way to get a file was to click the embedded link in the pptx file, which only works with desktop version.
If you have to deal with Teams meetings with screen sharing, well, you can’t control the other person’s screen (for no good reason) and you can’t offer remote control of your own (ok, I understand that one).
I’ll say that 95% of my dealings with Office files can be dealt with between browser based O365 and libreoffice for some of those features, but once in a while I simply have to open desktop Office.
This is the perspective of someone who really dislikes Windows and is willing to deal with this sort of uncertainty to minimize Windows usage. Most people would just not want to futz with the options and go straight to the desktop client, which is the only thing that supports all the Office features.
Windows: you’ll eat this slop even if we have to carve a hole in your throat and force it through.
And you’ll like it and beg for more.
Clearly people don’t find it that bad
The only reason I’m still on windows is I run a weird 3 monitor setup on a Nvidia GPU.
Even then I could probably switch but I’m too lazy
If you feel up for it, boot into the live disk for Mint. Lets you trial the OS without touching your OS install.
But, I hear you on the lazy angle. Momentum is a hell of a thing.
Note that my three monitor setup with an nvidia GPU actually works better in Linux.
Mainly because when I plug the laptop in, I have to turn the third monitor off and on again to make it ‘wake up’, but in Linux, all three reliably start displaying.
What distro? Wayland or x11? What resolutions and refresh rates do these monitors have?
3840x2440, 2560x1440, and 1920x1200. Wayland and all of them are probably just 60hz screens.
I heard that using different non multiple hz on x11 can be troubling.
I really don’t want to have to install it for work at all next year.
Hmmm… Maybe people using windows 10 really do love the full screen ads! Yeah! They missed the ads so they went back to windows 10 until they can get those ads in windows 11! Yup! That must be it!
I would double down on full screen unstoppable ads. Maybe one that looks like a BSOD? That would be lovely!
Well, Microsoft said way back when that “Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows” so a lot of enterprise went to it. To this day I’m dealing with vendors that have a certified “Windows 10-only” solution. Another funny one is stuff like Ford’s FDRS software still only officially supports Windows 10 Pro.
Platform changes and all that are fine, but when Microsoft says basically “This is gonna be your LTS forever” and then bails on it, shit like this is no surprise at all.
I’ll admit to some ‘asterisk’ to that.
So a developer evangelist said “because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10”. So the media ran with the most intuitive interpretation of that language and expanded on it and declared that Microsoft was basically changing to a rolling release model. Note that folks say “he meant latest, not last”.
Meanwhile, Microsoft’s formal lifecycle statement said, from the onset, that it wasn’t going to be supported in 10 years.
However, Microsoft did nothing to clarify the rampant coverage. So I’m still on the side of “the popular impression among people was eternally supported rolling release”. Just acknowledging that, formally, they did designate 10 the same way they had designated previous versions.
I agree with you fully, and that’s my main point. Their own forums were full of the question being repeatedly asked and dismissed, granted by “MVP’s” or independent advisors who have no link to the internal development or plans, they should have stepped up their messaging. The enterprise I work for pays them a fuckton of money, and we even have our own dedicated account reps who sang the same tune those fuckers on the forums did, and they were legit Microsoft employees. When W10’s EOL was announced they sent over a lot of gift baskets to our VP’s over that shit, because we knew how many mission critical systems we had that just got fucked in the ass, and our budgetary outlays just changed.
Complete fucking asshole move, and it could’ve been much better if the messaging were just handled differently.
Yeah, I strongly suspect there was a camp within Microsoft that was 100% pushing for ‘rolling release’ model for the OS versus another traditionalist camp that said there would be new major upgrades. Further, I bet rather than reconciling those perspectives, they just let both camps continue on under their own assumption, until eventually the traditionalists won out and got ‘Windows 11’, finalizing which way the company was going to actually go.
The moment I can verify a solution for my music production workflow on Linux, I know that I’m out as well.
Gaming and Clip Studio Paint for me. (Maybe some other stuff that I just haven’t thought of.)
Needless to say, every day my Windows 11 machine bugs out on me I get closer and closer to just giving Linux a solid try for the first time since college.
Gaming was one of my reasons as well initially, but it has gotten a LOT better on Linux in recent times by the look of it so I just have music remaining on my list. I also don’t use CSP but I have many friends who do art and can understand not wanting to move away from it.
Yeah I used Krita (which works on Linux just fine) for about a year and a half. But once I went back to CSP, I immediately felt that “oh this just works and doesn’t require a million workarounds for stuff” sigh of relief.
I’ve also seen some folks have gotten CSP working on Linux, but it looked like a pretty hairy process. And with CSP having no official Linux support, they might break that process at any point.
It’s tough. Might be worth it anyway, depending on how much Microsoft continues screwing the pooch here.
Do it… I switched about a year and a half ago, and I can’t ever imagine going back. And gaming is amazing on it. I’ve been using Bazzite for several months now and it has been awesome.
Aw. Bazzite can’t do Nvidia GPUs. I’m still rocking an RTX 2070 and likely will be for a good while.
Bummer… Aren’t the open source Nvidia drivers half-decent these days? I purposely went with AMD knowing I would be doing Linux gaming on it.
No idea, I was just looking into Bazzite specifically.
Bazzite has a standard build specifically for Nvidia GPUs. It supports back to GTX cards so your RTX 2070 will work. Source: I’m typing to you from my PC running Bazzite with a 3060 TI. The only thing this version doesn’t support is the Steam gaming mode desktop environment. Steam the application still runs fine and all the games I play work. You can run KDE or Gnome desktop environments. It’s time!
Yeah I just learned that this morning. The Bazzite website still has a piece of text on the site that explicitly says it doesn’t support Nvidia stuff, but it looks like that’s an artifact that just needs to be removed.
Perhaps I shall look into it.
Do it! Do it! Easy to dual boot and test it out. They have a great discord for any questions that come up.
What do you do? I have been doing some hobby stuff with generating music once a few months.
Nothing serious, but music seems to actually be the only area on desktop (outside of development) where Linux is fully competitive.
My workflow is in FL studio, however the bigger problem is my VST libraries. I have the entire Arturia V collection as well as many, many more plugins and I am unsure if they would run on Linux, or if they do, how well. This is unfortunately a big problem as my collection of VST’s total into the thousands of dollars. I suppose I could run a windows VM to make everything function, but then I would probably have problems with latency/connectivity on my audio interface when I want to patch any of my hardware in, if drivers are even available for the interface in on Linux (It’s just a scarlett 2i2 I believe).
Im at the same point. I spent quite some Money on Studio one and plugins…i’ll probably try a setup with Wine and/or Yabridge soon. Wouldnt mind that much if i had to switch to Reaper.
If you do so, I would be interested in hearing about the experience and any troubleshooting you had to perform to fix problems.
Have you tried something like Wine or even Proton for it? I know that Proton is thought as more for games, but it runs Windows apps in general. Just add the app as a “game” in Steam and tell it to run with a version of Proton.
This, video gaming has blazed a path forward for music production workflows to fully embrace linux.
It isn’t just a single application is the problem, it’s the VST plugins and their respective management softwares, drivers for audio interfaces, and some other such things. I use FL studio and I have seen people get it mostly working in wine, but its all the other stuff that creates an issue.
You could probably use a Windows VM
Yes I had this thought, however if possible I would like to be fully Linux. The other issue I would expect while this solves the VST problems would be latency with the audio interface.
Where are you on that process? I do 2D visuals and i’m at the point where all software that i use is available on Linux, but i have yet to actually try it in practice
I haven’t had a lot of time recently to look, but I know FL studio can mostly be set up to work through wine. The problems exist in the plugins/VST’s/ the VST management softwares/ the Audio interface drivers and latency.
Yeah, i ruled out Wine as an option pretty early on and i don’t remember why. May have been compatibility issues?
I have cheap audio interfaces (C600, Alesis IO2, M-Audio FastTrack Pro and such), and apparently they’re supposed to be natively compatible with Linux. Huge if true, on Windows i had to install drivers for each of them, including a community-built one. I don’t know what this means for pro interfaces but it’s encouraging
I don’t know what you’re currently accustomed to or what the feature/workflow differences would be, but I’ve had some music folks I know be successful with Ardour and Reaper. Have you checked to see if those would let you do your thing? The other problem I’ve had is audio interface support in Linux, but that seems to have improved a lot. I’ve got an old Axe I/O Solo that didn’t work at all a few years ago but now seems to have full support.
I use FL, but yes, it’s less the DAW that is the issue and more so my VST libraries and audio interface.
Yeah I bought a MacBook Air to replace my old beatmaking Windows computer. I’m loving it!
I have no idea how well it works re: audio software, but have you tried anything like Bottles or Lutris? Or even Proton through Steam?
Windows users will do everything, including using a soon unsupported and insecure, outdated version of this proprietary garbage, instead of just switching to a better OS
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And if the job requires an incorrect tool, you can always shove wondows in the VM, preferably with no or heavily firewalled network access.
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Don’t lump us all together. Windows users are just linux users who aren’t there yet.
I moved early this year and haven’t had significiant problems, though I’m IT savvy and can code my way around my issues. Linux is great, and I’d been halfway there for a long time, but Windows had the edge on gaming and simplicity. They fucked up, though when they started pushing for AI and Win11, at least for me. Where the Rubicon lies will be different for everyone, but it does exist for many.
We win by couching linux as the place to go to escape corporate focus and greed, not by being elitist.
I’m sorry, but no. Absolutely not.
You want to install Windows without giving up all of your personal information to a greedy corporation that will sell it or use it to train AI? Too bad, gotta figure out how to launch the command line during the OOBE process (it’s
Shift + F10btw) and figure out which command to enter (btw it’soobe\bypassnro), then restart your PC to reload the OOBE, just so you can avoid the absolutely brain-dead account requirement. Simple, right?You want to stop Windows from using Edge by default? Very simple, just download this tool from GitHub.
You want to get rid of Microsoft Edge? Just a couple of PowerShell commands. Very simple, very intuitive, very user-friendly, right?
You want to do anything that you as an end user aren’t meant to do? Have fun and dive into
regedit, while always having to fear that you might brick your system.You want to disable Recall/Copilot/whatever they call their AI garbage? Too bad, you can’t. It’s baked into the system specifically in a way that makes it impossible to remove. What a fucking simple and intuitive operating system. Always works like a charm and lets me do whatever I want.
Most people don’t care about the same things you care about. I do, and still find managing windows easier but I agree not everyone will because I also care about things like tpm support and kernel signing. Windows does all these things with no hoops, making it simpler for my use case. I’ve never had a registry entry brick anything.
I’m not super controlling, so I don’t feel an overriding need to remove edge just because it’s there. I used Rufus to bypass tpm and web login support with 2 checkboxes. Life just isn’t that hard.
For someone who doesn’t care at all, windows is significantly easier.
Oh I do believe that most people absolutely fucking hate Edge and want to get rid of it. I’m also pretty sure that people aren’t interested in creating an account that has basically no benefits, while just being annoying as fuck.
UEFI secure boot and the TPM API are fundamentally broken and provide nothing more than an illusion of security. If you want to see what a proper secure boot setup looks like, take a look at Android Verified Boot with an actual hardware secure element (e.g. the Google Titan M2). UEFI secure boot only exists to comply with standards and certifications written by people who know nothing about security.
Creating Windows installation media in general is a great topic, why the actual fuck does Microsoft not provide a bootloader in their ISO images?!? I recently wanted to create a Windows 11 install USB drive, but I didn’t have any working Windows installation at that time. I can’t create a Windows USB from macOS or Linux, because I need to use Microsoft’s stupid Media Creation Tool, which, guess what, only works on Windows. I need Windows in order to install fucking Windows. This is so insanely stupid.
Edge is fairly popular, your assessment is without merit there. Id trust it over chrome and the scum at brave but under chromium, Vivaldi, Firefox.
Even if a tpm chip is just a deadbolt on your door, it’s better than nothing and will keep your stuff safe from 99% of attackers. Yes the nsa well get through but they were gonna anyway. Your curious friend or random criminal aren’t gonna get through. It’s a deadbolt. I like having a deadbolt. It won’t keep me actually safe but it will still stop 99% of people. You can let the perfect be the enemy of the good if you’d like, but until my Asus has a titan chip I’m gonna do what I can.
I don’t understand your last comment, Microsoft does provide a full iso and if you use Rufus to burn to a USB drive it works fine bootloader and all. No need to even try to use their hot garbage media creator tool, which sucks.
It really varies on what distro/DE/etc. you choose. Many are very simple and user friendly.
Just found a post on !pcmasterrace@lemmy.world that sums this up pretty well: lemmy.ca/post/26083247
My general experience has been: “Come to Linux”
“But not ubuntu that’s trash”
<Tries arch, run into problem>
“Why the fuck would you use arch, dummy?”
<Switch to fedora, immediately brick computer, eventually fix it but switch to suse>
<Wonder where certain software is>
“If you wanted wide software support why wouldn’t you use arch”
“You can just learn the build tool chain for that software and do it yourself”
Etc Etc
The Linux community is very welcoming until you expect things to work.
I switched to Linux easily because this laptop does nothing but internet and office work. If you have any kind of complex workflow, changing anything is hard, let alone changing everything from the OS upwards. Same if you need to run obscure proprietary software.
The main problem is that Win11 can only run in special hardware and Microsoft can pry out my potato computer from my cold, dead hands. I won’t change my hardware to update my OS.
Do it the other way, change your OS! Embrace the pinguin!
Man, it’s a toss up for me as to which I hate more: Microsoft threatening and badgering me toward W11 (and by extension, a new computer) or Linux fanboys evangelizing for their preferred system.
Both are complete non-starters for me. I’m not buying a new machine while my current one does everything I need just fine… And after a few years of using Linux on my laptop back in college, I have no desire to set foot in that environment again either.
i know right? they act like it’s such a trivial transition.
The transition is much easier than it was 10 or even 5 years ago, that’s probably a big part of it
Not evangelizing in any way, but it is worth a try. If “back in college” was 10 years ago, I could hardly agree more that it was pain all around, but it is so much easier nowadays that even I without any advanced knowledge in Linux I could setup one of the harder distress (Arch) without any pain at all (thanks Archinstall).
Yes it was longer than that.
My main thing is that, then and now (based on discussions I read between users), most any user experience that I relate to seems to be equal parts:
“try to figure out the Linux equivalent of what you were doing in Windows and hope it’s compatible with the rest of your needs”
“Try to figure out how to get Linux to behave like Windows to accomplish something you did with that os”
“Become a hobbyist…programmer? IT specialist? And get familiar with tweaking and adjusting the details of how your computer works just to get it to do things you want”
Like…for people who enjoy it, I’m happy for them. Really! But I don’t want to have to familiarize myself with commands, learn how to boot things up, or learn a whole list of things just to get the simple mindless functionality I have with Windows from decades of time in the system.
I think back then I tried Debian, Ubuntu, and…is ‘OpenSUSE’ a thing? I even had a group of three friends who were all super into Linux encouraging me and helping me every step of the way, and I was young and technically inclined and happy to have a challenge…and in the end, I went right back to Windows after a semester or two of that, because I just found that my experience was, broadly speaking, “Enjoy a problem solving exercise in software management every time you want to do something, just to get to a basic level of function, with added quirks that you’ll just have to deal with…and little real benefit for the order of magnitude of extra effort”.
And while I’m sure some of that would have had to get better in the years between, most of the conversations I still see about Linux are enthusiasts enjoying coming up with solutions to the issues of using their chosen system. Which again, that’s fine, but I don’t want to have to become an enthusiast of an OS.
Given a choice between, “have to learn how to get the OS to do everything” vs “put up with data collection and some intrusive ads once in a while”… I’m happy to go with the latter to have things just work without having to learn a new skill set just to get the same level of functionality.
I’m happy to use W10 well after its official support ends, though I strongly suspect there will be significant extensions to that timeline. Even then, I’m happy to use it until it’s no longer the path of least resistance, at which point, I’ll reevaluate my options. When we get there, if it seems reasonable, maybe I’ll dip my toes into the Linux pool again.
Understandable, from a software engineer’s view, I get it.
IMO the biggest challenge is to fundamentally change how one thinks about given system. The goal is not to want to get it to behave like windows. But I understand it is hard for someone who used windows his whole life (I’ve been like that aswell). LibreOffice will never look like Office, downloading new software is not gonna be just running an .exe installer, and system settings will sometimes not be just “click here and it does what you want”.
Not trying to convince you (or anyone), but just my two cents.
Windows ‘just works’? What about all the programs crashes that you need to go through endless YouTube tutorials to fix? What about having to fill up a form and register your credit card for every closed source program you need to install? I don’t think Windows ‘just works’.
Not to mention all the “freeware” that doesn’t do what it is supposed to do. Like if you want a background removal from your webcam.
I’ve literally never had either of these experiences with W10.
At least not in the past 5+ years.
I’m considering it, I’ll have to use Autocad on the web and skyciv if I have to.
A few of my friends really like FreeCAD. I’m not good enough to know if it’s a suitable replacement though. I just practice on it for 3d printing use.
Special hardware meaning a TPM chip to encrypt your data? Why would they force you to use 10 year old tech, way too new!
Remember they aren’t forcing you to update, they just are telling you they won’t support your old-ass shit :)
I built my computer new 7 years ago, and it doesn’t support windows 11. Still works like a charm, at least for my use case. There’s no reason for me to spend the 1000 to update it. Easier to move to linux when windows 10 hits EOL.
Microsoft has gotten way too comfortable with having no real OS competition… I think maybe after this they might actually feel the hit as Linux has gotten so easy to install/use (in some cases, like updates, easier than Windows), is so stable, and works with most games.
People are noticing and giving it a shot since they have nothing to lose.
Linux being easy to install was a weird target to begin with. If it were good, framework could easily find popularity. The issue with Linux is less the install than the upkeep and the jank package ecosystem. For every official package it feels like theres a bootleg build uploaded through gitlab ci by user luvgunz6969. Even something as basic as syncthing seems to have 5 different ways to install and run it. Firefox is insecure on Linux. Thunderbird doesn’t have a fucking tray icon. Installing specific drivers breaks secureboot. It’s a fucking minefield.
I don’t know about it being stable. I’ve run python scripts that opens lots of images before, and my OS (Linux Mint) let’s it empty my memory and freeze my computer, it isn’t even a sudo command - that isn’t stable behavior to me.
Sounds like user error.
But no really, I recently switched to Bazzite, which is immutable and atomic, and it is 1000% more stable than Windows.
It doesn’t hurt to kill processes that will freeze the computer.
Definitely. Is the implication that you can’t easily do this in Linux?
I assume you mean a desktop without a tpm chip but with a tpm header and from the Intel lines where they didn’t bother to include the soft tpm as part of the design? I had such a PC, roughly the same time frame as yours.
My phone is faster. Less RAM, but faster processor.
7 years is a long time in tech.
I wonder if the stats will rise considerably during 2025 with all the business and enterprise environment switching after delaying the upgrade for a few years. We certainly have to do that at work.
The beating will continue until morale increases. - Microsoft PR
Wellp… This morning I was ready to go to work and have a few meetings but thanks to windows 11 inconvenient update service now I can just come here to complain.
When you “have” to keep making new versions to satisfy market “demand” in the “free” market.
When “supply” of “quote on quotes” is higher than “demand”. :p
Yeah no shit! When my computer does full-screen, disruptive things that I didn’t tell it to do, I figure out how to remove that malware. I’ve been off Windows at home for about a month now, thanks Linux Mint! Getting some games to work has been challenging, but most things have just worked and quite a few work much better!
Performance is up overall, and my confidence that my computer isn’t running a bunch of secret ad and spy ware is way up. Hardware like my gamepad and microphone would randomly disconnect and have issues on Windows, all working perfectly now.
Unfortunately I’m still deep in MS land for work, but there’s almost a comedic quality to it. Everything’s very slow, everyone has constant issues with Teams, or Office online, or Dynamics, or copilot shoving it’s tendrils into everything. Watching businesses struggle to keep operating in the face of Microsoft’s inadequacy is like being a mechanic watching a motor grind to a halt because the owner/manufacturer replaced all the oil with syrup.
Like yes, it’s my problem to fix, but I’m just glad it’s not my car.
Welcome fellow minter. Try Steam / Proton… simple and seemless for a huge chunk of games.
I’ve been apprehensive to all kinds of adverts for years, I guess the general population is catching up to me on this trend.
I’ll stick to Win10 until the end of the support period, just like how I stuck to Win7 as long as I could 😬 That was still my favourite OS, loved Aero 🥺
Yeah, agreed. I had to be pulled into 10 kicking and screaming. 7 was great. I got used to 10, but never loved it. And now I guess I’m done with Windows, which is kinda sad. I’ve been using it since Win95.
I’m still sticking to Windows mostly because of Adobe programs and gaming, so I guess I’ll just have to go the usual massgrave.dev route and group-policy all the crap out of Win11 😮💨
Yeah, that sucks. What a pain. I’m pretty lucky, almost all my games are on Steam and run great. And for my old stuff, I still have an XP machine. I don’t have any special software I need to run at home, either. I’ve got NX on my work laptop, and Windows is the company’s problem there. Good luck with 11, I hope it won’t be too much of a pain to debloat for you.
My PC isn’t compatible, so fuck Windows 11
Yeah exactly… my laptop isn’t going to grow more ram so I don’t see the point in upgrading. When October 2025 rolls around I may need to upgrade my laptop to freebsd
My perfectly good PC has an incompatible processor with W11, so I’m not upgrading.
I imagine it’ll still be just fine next October, so even if Microsoft doesn’t extend support for W10, I’ll still be using it.
I disabled TPM 2.0 in the BIOS and MADE my PC incompatible so Windows 10 would shut up about the “new and improved Windows 11”.
Same here. The main thing that kept me from going with Macs was that the OS only supports the hardware for about 10 years, from what I understand, while Windows used to just not care how old the hardware was. But now it’s not only the TPM 2.0 requirement bullshit - I bought a micro PC with a 5-6 year old Ryzen and it was not supported by Windows 11. Fuck them. I use Windows 11 at work and it sucks anyway. My two choices now are 1) run Linux on my old PC or 2) buy a Mac. I’m most likely going to go with 1. That way I can run Windows 11 and Mac VMs anyway.
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I don’t understand how Windows 11 file system/explorer just chugs so much. If you have a folder with more than a dozen or so files, it’s optional whether anything will load or not. Everything about Windows 11 is leaning into the worst aspects of windows 10, without any benefit.
Yes, they added tabs, which is good. But made the rest crap. When you right click a file, copy is just 1cm higher. At the top of the pop up.
I had a file browser with tabs on my 2009 Ubuntu laptop… heck, even with the full compiz fusion ridiculousness I had going on, it was more responsive than win11.
Yes, compiz was fun. My laptop could barely run windows 7, but compiz ran smoothly.
And that’s why I’m happy to see tabs finally. But they really screwed the rest of the file explorer.
This is expected from Microsoft. It’s their tick tock pattern of good windows based windows. 95 good, ME bad, XP good, Vista bad, 7 good, 8 bad, 10 good, 11bad.
Sure, but 10 was worse than 7, especially current 10. Six months ago or so, I booted up an e-waste laptop I had that was still running a very old version of 10 and seeing it running next to current Windows 10… it’s gotten so bad. I’ve never actually used 11, 10 got so bad I jumped ship early.
And how do they still fucking suck at searching for files. I can’t find shit without the Everything app
Doesn’t even register that you created or deleted a file in the explorer window that’s open, instead you have to refresh it with F5 to see the changes, like it’s some sort of web app from the 1990s. Pretty sure older windows explorer versions would update the view when files changed…
its too busy making microsoft money with your data
I had to make the change to Windows 11 at work, it was certainly a downgrade. Pretty common that there is a massive wait for even the most simple applications to load. Quite often I end up opening multiple copies, because I think the first click to open didn’t register, click again and they all open at once. This is on the same hardware that Windows 10 did fine on.
I still fail to see how windows 11 was anything but a collusion scam to sell new hardware.
None of the changes including TPM requirements required a new iteration. Nothing about the underlying NT dropped any of the old and antiquated BS despite Microsoft hiring some morons to advertise the fact on reddit to all the insiders asking questions.
They even let the media pick up a fake report that Windows 11 was related to the Core OS and a brand new kernel was in the works.
If Microsoft wanted a marketing strategy, they could have properly started naming feature updates and adverising them similar to Apple.
8, 10, and 11 have also been a pain on enterprise because Microsoft axed their QA team. I seriously hope any new firms start considering linux desktop as a valid option. All they really need is a vendor to offer a solid distro along with an agreement to rapidly create/deploy any software solution so they don’t get scared looking at the cheap entry windows stuff.
Don’t be silly, it was also about putting dedicated spyware and even more ads into your OS.
You’re absolutely right. The fact that people can work around the requirement for UEFI, TPM, and SecureBoot shows that it still runs fine on legacy BIOS. I’ve been saying this forever, it’s like a car radio company telling car dealerships to only allow them to be installed into cars with car alarms and then claiming that the radio is secure (when the security is a feature of the car, not the radio). It’s such bullshit…
You talk as if this is some sort of special trick.
You’re able to work around those things precisely because they have been designed to be turned off.
Running a business system with the TPM turned off is madness, whcih will pretty much guarantee a ransomware attack,.
I cannot install Windows 11 on my computer without using a hacky work around because Windows 11 “requires” SecureBoot and TPM, but my computer doesn’t even have UEFI.
This is completely wrong.
The TPM is a hardware feature, so you need to update the whole system. The software patch is too slow to be useful.
The uptake level is expected given falling PC sales and the fact that upgrading is limited.
The TPM is not a dedicated cryptographic processor, it’s an external keystore with a few select functions. You’re thinking of an HSM which is used almost exclusively in servers that have to handle thousands of secrets per second.
CPUs have had dedicated AES hardware for decades which is why LUKS and Bitlocler use it by default.
The TPM just allows certain keys and secrets to be generated and stored physically separate from the CPU as a security measure.
Bitlocker and LUKS will store a master key in the TPM so that you don’t have to enter a password every time you boot. They retrieve it from the TPM and then use it to unlock the actual encryption key which is done entirely in the CPU. If the TPM detects foul play such as secure boot alteration, it will refuse to give the key or clear itself.
Using the TPM for constant encryption like at rest disk encryption would be way too slow.
It’s so so small that most modern TPMs have been integrated into the CPU or even simulated via the motherboard firmware (fTPM and PTT).
It was Microsoft’s kickback to Intel and later Qualcomm.
I sense 12 coming soon if MS wants to EOL 10 without losing customers.
I’m just acclimating myself to Linux and attempting to learn how to get Wine working. I’m just done with this shit.
Wine doesn’t support everything and is still broken for a lot of things.
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Call it whatever you want, I don’t feel spreading a negative narrative to someone who wants to leave an abusive ecosystem on the internet should be something that should be defended though.
Feel free to DM if you want 1 on 1 support. Ive been making the switch for almost 4 years now.
Thanks! I will definitely do that. I’m not new to Linux but it’s been around 20 years since I last did anything with distros and I remember Wine being finicky as hell. Hopefully it has been somewhat tamed in the last 20 years. I’m starting basic AF with Ubuntu, though I did grab a copy of Mint to play with.
Thats fair. I use Fedora myself but Wine should be a lot easier than you remember lol. For me its been as simple as adding the repo and installing, then most of my Windows programs were plug and play :P I dont run any adobe or MS office but the alternatives are pretty good once you get acclimated to them
11.1. Like 8.1.
8.1 was actually a massive improvement though, I doubt they’re even capable of pulling that off for 11, much less willing. 11 is flawed deeply to the core, 8 was “only” flawed on the surface (UI etc.)
Lots and lots of people went on the 98 to XP to 7 to 10 path, skipping Me, Vista, and 8. No reason that pattern can’t continue.
If Microsoft really wants people to switch to Windows 11 they need to retain many of the already few remaining customization options from Windows 10. Trackpad gesture support is worse, the only useful button in the new right click menu is the show more one which brings back the old menu but requires an extra click, and the file explore somehow got even more buggy. I hate every time I need to interact with a computer using Windows 11.
Luckily there’s been an initiative within my company recently to support Linux, so I’m hoping that all the network related issues are fully worked out before Windows 11 is forced on us so I can just jump ship to Ubuntu.
Windows 10 no longer being updated by Microsoft is it’s biggest selling point
Seriously, stop using Windows. If you set up a new computer, use Linux. Compared to everything we had in the 1990’s when we all decided to buy a computer and connect to the internet, modern Linux is fucking awesome, so think of it like prestiging in Call of Duty. You go back to the 90’s and start over, but it’s not nearly as bad, and it’s for a good cause.
Family need a new computer? Linux, Mac OS. Work need services deployed? Linux, FreeBSD.
Stop using Windows. Please. I stopped in 2013 and I’ve never been happier, it’s not been easy but I’m better now because of it and when I have to see Windows I fucking cringe and wonder how people can do it.
Break your addiction to the GUI, it’s not better than CLI, it augments it. Break your addiction to download and double click .exe to install applications. Break your addition video games that require Windows, you can run anything in Steam now (sans VR 😿). Break your addiction to your OS stopping you to apply “updates” and breaking your shit and blue screen frown face and moving your
startwindows logo button from the far left where it’s been for decades to the middle and showing you ads and introducing spy features and forcing their browser on you and their search engine and promising you good changes and good software just to deploy a half-baked product and begging you to “just wait it’ll get better”, to have it die in your arms and have ms just walk up rip it out of your arms and replace it with more half-baked software and promises, over and over. Break your addiction to MS telling you this is the last OS that you will ever buy every fucking release, having features taken from you and placed behind a pay wall, having simple applications like notepad which might have been fine in 1993 but then just remain the same for literally 20 fucking years, just to be overhauled to have tabs, something that notepad++ (which is free) has had since the beginning. Break your addiction to the abuse, this company is buying nuclear power plants to run datacenters to process data about you, that they basically are forcing you to be okay with, so that they can further increase their profit margins, and or enable governments to survey the public for whatever reason they deem necessary..