I flat-out refuse to do business with any that requires I use an app. I won’t even scan a QR code for a restaurant menu; that’s my cue to go eat elsewhere.
Enkers@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Feb 17:49
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I don’t mind the whole online menu thing. It’s probably an environmental net positive, but it’s bs if they don’t have ANY physical copies for those who can’t or don’t want to for whatever reason.
If they wanted me to install something, though, that’d be a 100% instant nope.
An online menu requires power to be used (on people’s phones and the server). Is that really a minor contribution in comparison to printing paper and maybe laminating it?
In fairness neither have I - though I suspect it’s not as insignificant as others have claimed.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 22 Feb 22:38
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It’s not insignificant at all. Servers are beefy and take more power than a standard PC… a lot more. Further, failover servers mean you have to have exact copies of the same server up and available, which means you’re doubling, tripling, quadrupling power demands. Finally, you also have to have Uninterruptible Power Supplies, those take an amount of power as well.
It’s a huge power draw. I know because I have a bunch of low-power devices runnig 24/7 as microservices and it still increase my power bill and use by a lot. I regularly get letters from the power company about how I’m using like 3x the power of the average person in my type of unit.
ladfrombrad@lemdro.id
on 22 Feb 23:30
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I regularly get letters from the power company about how I’m using like 3x the power of the average person in my type of unit.
I’m also using a lot of self hosted things but have never received any of those.
Where do you reside generally where they’re sending them because it ain’t a thing here in the UK?
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 22 Feb 23:32
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US, west coast.
It’s not meant to make a person feel attacked as much as gently nudging them to use less power.
I don’t think I’d feel “attacked” but more impressed that I came to light if they sent me them very much like a naughty “copyright warning” and would send it back with a brick in it.
I had not considered that an uninterruptible power supply would be consuming power after charging. I suppose no electronics are 100% efficient at what they do.
I’ve been playing with a Proxmox server on an ITX system for local services and rare game hosting for friends. I’d love something low power I could have on all the time.
drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 23 Feb 11:37
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You can host a webserver on a Raspberry Pi. I don’t know what you’re doing with your setup but you absolutely do not need hundreds of watts to serve a few hundred KB worth of static webpage or PDF file. This website is powered by a 30 watt solar panel attached to a car battery on some guy’s apartment balcony. As of writing its at 71% charge.
An Ampere Altra Max CPU has 128 ARM cores (the same architecture that a raspberry pi uses), with a 250 watt max TDP. That works out to about 2 watts per core. Each of those cores is more than enough to serve a little static webpage on its own, but in reality since a lot of these sites get less than 200 hits per day the power cost can be amortized over thousands of them, and the individual cores can go to sleep if there’s still not enough work to do. Go ahead and multiply that number by 4 for failover if you want, its still not a lot. (Not that the restaurant knows or cares about any of this, all this would be decided by a team of people at a massive IT company that the restaurant bought webpage hosting from).
timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Feb 22:18
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That and those servers are going to be running anyway. Powering a simple restaurant website is a grain of sand on the beach of internet usage.
Yeah, exactly. If you’re worried about the power draw to host a few hundred KB PDF file, you probably shouldn’t be using Lemmy, because scrolling through your feed probably uses 100x that in energy costs.
You have to remember that the shared hosting or aws, or wherever is going to be cheapest to host a simple website is also going to be very power efficient. Wasting power is just throwing away free money, and if there’s one thing corporations don’t do, it’s throw away free money.
The funny thing about qr codes for restaurant menus to me, as someone that studied menu design. Is that actual menus are designed specific ways make the restaurant more profit and make it easier for people to find what they want. Whereas qr codes often bring one to a hastily designed list of categories which are not only less intuitive but also less manipulative. So people will end up taking longer to order less profitable dishes.
that stuff is nice as an option. There’s a bar I go to that I can order my food and drink to the table my friends are at, while I’m walking to the place, and everything just arrives shortly after I sit down. Other people get offended about how fast I get served, it’s always amusing. I also enjoy not interacting with the staff, nothing against them, brain just doesn’t brain sometimes.
But what if I didn’t have a phone? or if I left home without it? 24/7 pocket rectangle is not natural.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 01:13
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Losing your phone now is like losing not just your wallet but simple access to everything.
eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 23 Feb 21:16
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Can confirm. Brother had his phone stuck in LA for 2 weeks.
Hard time signing into some sites as they only had text for 2 factor
Modern alarm clocks are awful, you only get two options and must be plugged in, so if you want 3 alarms while you’re outside of your house? Fuck you.
Harder to track public bus routes as not only can you not call dispatch, you can’t check with the app.
There’s probably more but those affected him the most. Genuinely weird that in 2025 alarm clocks are stuck in 1985.
Worst thing about qr menus for me is that when I finally order, I have to give my phone number and address. Bro, I’m sitting across from the kitchen and just want dumplings. Why I gotta dox myself for that?
There should be a warning label on any establishment or product that requires a smartphone to use.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 22 Feb 18:44
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How about this:
At the apartments I recently moved out of, there were no quarter slots on the washing machines. They were an app that required a bluetooth connection to pay.
So if you lived there and didn’t have a smartphone? Go fuck yourself, you don’t get to do laundry.
Unless you bothered to check the laundry room when you were looking at the apartment, you wouldn’t know. No warnings.
That depends a bit on if it was advertised or not to have a laundry room. At least here in NL it is more common to have your own washing machine than to use a shared one so having a laundry room would be an extra to start with.
Still sucks though
white_nrdy@programming.dev
on 23 Feb 13:51
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Tbf, my building also uses an app for laundry. However they also have a machine in the laundry rooms where you can purchase an NFC payment card and put money on it. So you can use it without the app. Is that not the case with yours? If not, that’s 100% fucked
There was a food truck I went to one time that required you to download some app to look at their menu and order your food. They refused to accept a credit card or cash. I walked. So fucking stupid. I don’t know why people allow shit like that to exist.
Even if you did want apps the majority only offer it from 1 of the 2 popular repositories (" stores "). It’s a shame they do not have a way to track that lost sale/interaction.
especially if you don’t have an iphone. I have seen so many accessories and apps that were made for use on iphones which would also be useful for android devices as well. my transplant clinic has a patient portal that has an app for iphones but nothing for android so you have to use their website.
I switched thermostats due to the old one failing, and getting a basic smart thermostat was required for a hefty rebate that basically made it free… and the one I have now, the app thought my not-major-brand phone was a tablet. I couldn’t hit the button to turn down the heat, only up, because it was cut off due to scaling.
So yeah, requiring apps for interface is bad. Even if you are willing to use it there’s so freakin many various versions of android that it’s guaranteed to not work properly for a whole swath of people, mostly those on budget devices.
Especially given that some of the common budget devices, like Huawei, lacks Google services. It is the reason why all the major banks here except one don’t require Google services.
But yes I am against supermarkets that only provide discounts if you use their loyalty program, which in turn allows them to track your purchases. Especially since many items are priced with the discount as the “fair” price and the full price is really just a money grab.
Kroger, as a corporation, contributes to politicians of both US parties in roughly equal measure. Less than ideal (zero contributions), but not too bad I guess. But, they do have an obnoxious customer loyalty card program. Boo!
Publix, on the other hand, doesn’t have a customer loyalty card program at all. Yay! But, the corporation and their leadership contribute HEAVILY to the new Trumpy GOP, Matt Gaetz in particular. So, fuck them.
I’m boycotting Publix. Lesser of two evils I guess.
I really wish we had a locally-owned mom ’n pop grocery. I’d pay a premium for that.
This kinda shit is why I go to Aldi instead. They give everyone the same low prices. Tesco have their clubcard and seeing how much more they want to charge me for not having one puts me off ever going there on a regular basis.
Also under 18s can’t get these loyalty cards here so fuck you I guess you have to pay a load more.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Feb 01:17
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Same. We have two grocery stores nearby, both with loyalty programs. One requires using the program to get discounts, while the other doesn’t (you just miss out on points). Guess which I shop at…
If I need to go to the other one (Kroger family), I’ll use my parents’ number so they get the points. I go maybe once/year if there’s a particularly good deal.
Last time I went to a new-to-me grocery store that I didn’t have a loyalty card for, I just used [local area code]-867-5309. Jenny hasn’t failed me yet.
SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 11:39
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If you do the calculation, the discount you get in the end is often just 1%. I don’t really care about that 1%. You can get more, but the time you have to invest to get a better deal makes less money than just work an extra hour.
And some of those loyalty programs have expiring points, that happen to expire just before you get to the tier when things get interesting. And when you do save up to the food stuff you find out the app is a lot better at collecting loyalty points and doesn’t work so great at exchanging them.
The main thing this article is talking about is supermarkets in the UK that lock all their sale offers behind the loyalty card. Until about a year or two ago, you could go in and buy things on sale or buy one get one free or whatever offer, and then use (or don’t use) your loyalty card on top (to collect/spend points), but now you don’t get any discounts if you don’t have a loyalty card.
The article/campaigners are spinning this up into something about smartphones, because that’s how most people use these loyalty schemes now, but they still have the old style cards so that’s a bit of a red herring. The real issue is the way they’re tying their standard offers to the loyalty program, and making it more difficult for consumers not to get caught out paying full price.
ladfrombrad@lemdro.id
on 22 Feb 19:07
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I literally had to switch bank accounts because I couldn’t reset my password “on the web” and required me to use Virgin Money’s app.
Customer service agent(s) on the phone after prolonged discussions why their app wouldn’t work on three Android phones right in front of me surfaced, and I shit you not
Well sir, I have my iPhone here and can login just fine maybe you should buy one of those instead
It was the sheer arrogance of that “supervisor” I escalated it to and I hate to think how someone like a pensioner would’ve dealt with them that day wanting to access their bank account, especially since all the local branches have been closed 👺
JFC just ask mom and dad for the down payment.... Can't you holdna a steady job?!
TheBrideWoreCrimson@sopuli.xyz
on 23 Feb 09:37
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I also had to switch accounts because after an update, the banking app didn’t work any longer on my rooted phone and I couldn’t log in. Thankfully, I’ve been keeping two accounts since forever, with the main motivation being that banks really like changing their TOS and introducing all sorts of fees, which I don’t want.
I’m probably gonna get clowned for feeding the troll, but - this comment comes off a lot more harsh if you’ve ever experienced not having access to the Internet and a smartphone or computer.
I spent the better part of 16 years of my life with no TV, MP3 player, phone, Internet, or computer - and it has negatively impacted me in immeasurable ways.
I couldn’t find work, because I couldn’t apply for jobs but also I didn’t know you could do that on the Internet - I also didn’t know YouTube existed, so I missed out on learning the things I liked, and I didn’t know I was being abused because I had no way of knowing that it wasn’t normal until I got access to help, via the Internet.
I wasn’t in the stone age - if I’d had options to do any of the above without a phone or the Internet, I’d be a different person today. Shut up, mate - not everyone can afford or has the opportunity to own a smartphone and data plan (which are rare and expensive in abusive situations like my past). Making services available in places like libraries and community centers without requiring smartphones and Internet would help so many people who have no ability to use them - those people are just as human as you.
and by the way while we’re at it: if we’re effectively paywalling access to basic human rights behind an IP address and cellular radio, those should be enshrined as human rights too.
SabinStargem@lemmings.world
on 23 Feb 07:36
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I was raised in the boondocks. You couldn’t get reception there back in the 90’s, and there weren’t any kids or neighbors that I could visit without having to be driven. My parents didn’t have any community at all, so I in turn never learned how to socialize properly. To say the least, I never became comfortable with phones, even after moving into civilization. It just wasn’t part of me.
Isolation from people is a huge disadvantage in life, you don’t get to make friends, network, or learn what it means to be part of society. Here’s hoping that cellphones and whatnot become rights, as you have said.
However, some states might provide SSI recipients a LifeConnect program. You get a free smartphone and low-end plan.
yep, I know this feeling all too well - having a community and friends is important but even more so in cases like ours. Thank you for the comment, I hope you’re doing better nowadays.
My old apartment had gates that could only be opened with an app. They took out the card reader and made it app only. Should have gotten out of there much earlier than I did.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Feb 01:06
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Yeah, that’s a nope from me. I’m trying to eliminate as many apps from my life as I can.
the gates that slide over using a chain, they often have a removable link at the end. If you unhook the chain on the opener side, it will open one more time, then spit all the chain out trying to close it. I used to take that link out when living in complexes with those gates. Made life easier for most. Would take months for it to get fixed. They are just standard 1/2in x1/8in bike chain.
Xanthobilly@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 20:06
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The whole using your phone for everything from grocery shopping to just doing whatever Like getting deals or whatever?, Can it please go away?
They’re collecting our data anyways.
ambitiousslab@lemmy.ml
on 22 Feb 21:27
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This affects me a lot day to day. I have a phone, but it runs postmarketOS, not iOS or Android. It really shows me the importance of open standards. I feel that every business should be required to support open standards for each of the services they offer.
For me, buying train tickets used to be ok, but is getting harder now. Some train operators are really pushing you to use their app now, and getting rid of the option to download a PDF. It really frustrates me: it’s not like it costs them more to offer PDF download - if anything, it’s much cheaper to offer that functionality than to build and maintain an app for iOS and Android.
Back when I had an Android phone, I used Monzo, and it was so easy to send money to friends, set up standing orders etc. I wish they offered a proper web interface. Now, I use Natwest’s online banking, and it’s a real pain - I use the card reader to authenticate, then the website logs me out seemingly every 2 mins of inactivity. Some features, like pre-notifying that you’ll be travelling abroad, are only available on the app. I only see this trend continuing.
The concert tickets example in the article is insane to me. I can’t think of a use case that is better suited for PDFs, and that’s what we’ve been doing for the last 10+ years without any issues. It really is user hostile and excludes people on the edges of society who don’t fit, for whatever reason, with what the 80-90% do.
apps allow user tracking and advertising though. Much more valuable to the corpos than a few lost customers.
benjaminb@discuss.tchncs.de
on 23 Feb 07:27
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Also mich More valuable to Google, as they are the biggest Advertising company. I looked it up and according to this source they have ~70% of the pay-per-click market.
also those who dont want to install that spyware shit on their phones. Even if you dont care about the data collection it still consumes battery faster as more and more data is being transferred
benjaminb@discuss.tchncs.de
on 23 Feb 07:19
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McDonald’s (in Germany at least) needs your location to “see when you arrive at the restaurant”. What the hell?! That doesn’t even work properly and they force it on me! I uninstalled the app and now I am actually happy, because without the promotion and discount stuff, I don’t eat McDanks that often anymore.
RisingSwell@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 23 Feb 11:05
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I use an app for OTR (petrol chain in Aus) and they’ve removed the requirement for location which is… Unexpected, to say the least. Anything except using the pumps on the app no longer needs it when all orders previously needed it.
benjaminb@discuss.tchncs.de
on 23 Feb 15:05
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Thats actually pretty nice. And on the subject of cars: I don’t get why (some) people with E-Cars say they are so much “greener” and then use like 10 different apps for the car, recharging, etc. Those servers produce so much, really, so god damn much CO2… (Not saying combustion engines are better, but…)
My Kia Sportage PHEV came with a “Kia Connect” app. There is a monthly charge but I get first 3 years for free. It’s got some sort of useful things but I don’t really use it much anymore. More likely than not I won’t bother to pay for it when the free years are up.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 23:10
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That is what I noticed. Everything these days require app to get shopping vouchers, book tickets, go in to your local gym, pay in store (we are being weaned off from using cash) etc.
I can’t even go to a high school football game without having an app.
DarkSpectrum@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 23:52
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Cloudalist’s and their technofuedalism
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 01:06
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“Continue reading this on the reddit/instagram/tik tok/blablah app” No, I didn’t need to see it that badly.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 01:06
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Even the homeless in my city have smartphones.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 01:10
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Even if I was willing to download all of those apps I don’t have room for them. They chew up 50-300mb each (why!?) and if I installed all of them I’d run out of memory. Since most phones now don’t support memory expansion I have to be picky about which ones I use.
I have THREE separate parking apps because I travel.
Well of course not. If phones supported memory expansion you would just buy more memory, instead of buying an entirely new phone
Don’t even get me started on how bloated these apps have become. I used Paperclip word processor on a Commodore-64; you can not convince me that your app needs to be 50+ Megs in size.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub
on 23 Feb 12:57
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You can’t compare (what is arguably) the peak of human computing to modern phones.
…I miss the c64
Edit: fixed pique to peak. Sorry. Autocorrect got me again
nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
on 23 Feb 18:34
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And that’s one of the benefits from open source apps. I have a very low end and dated phone, and yet I have more apps installed and hardware functionality than the average person, because I grab everything I can from f-droid. It’s amazing how much smaller and performant everything is.
SabinStargem@lemmings.world
on 23 Feb 07:29
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I am still on a flip phone. It is usually silent, and I don’t spend much time with it at all. While I am missing out on discounts and such, I simply hate the idea of constantly using a phone. Email is my telecommunication of choice, but receptionists don’t understand the idea, unfortunately.
My household bought a Rinnai water heater, and the bastard needed a phone to set the temperature. Thing is, it couldn’t communicate with the two or three phones that were used on it. Fortunately, there was an old-school modification for a physical keypad, but that had to be bought separately.
I used a flip phone for a month to help curb my screen time addiction. The number of restaurants, stores, etc. that simply expect it of you to have a smart phone was eye opening.
I have seen a bit of that, but every time it turned out to have an option without. For example, one chain wanted you to use an app for making orders - but when you say “I am sorry, I have a dumbphone”, it turns out there is a tablet for this on the reception.
BigTrout75@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 07:42
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Yeah. My bank is one of the few UK banks whose app won’t work with Graphene, which is irritating. Also, the lack of Wallet access for payment cards is annoying.
I’m never trolling about Linux. On Lemmy there are so many cultists that you can say the most innocuous things and it will be downvoted to oblivion or deleted for “trolling”. Maybe you don’t like calling it a cult but I get more downvoted for negative comments about Linux than other people do when they literally say Nazi things.
And then you get people like this…I mean what kind of broken prejudiced brain do you have to have to think this comparison is ok?
Oof you’re comparing government suppression of entire classes of people to linux’ failure to attract developers to the platform… How do you not realize you’re in a cult???
nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
on 23 Feb 18:30
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I still miss firefox os and feel sad for them not succeeding. Their app system could have become a multiplatform standard and allow us to have much more options in the smartphone market, as well as better desktop integration and interoperability :(
answersplease77@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 11:11
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they make older phones become useless after ditching their support
My S21 is on the verge of losing regular security updates, and I hate it. The battery is fine, the camera is more than adequate, I do not want to upgrade.
Mine decided to randomly start rebooting about a year ago. :( Tried everything I could think of to get it to work normally, but nothing helped. I couldn’t rely on it, so I had to replace it. Like you, I hadn’t planned to replace it any time soon.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Feb 17:11
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I have an S10e in service, it’s perfectly fine.
I saw whoever has the Nokia name now is selling smart phones designed to be end user disassembled and repairable, but they’re really mum about how long their software support is.
Twista713@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 21:06
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So would you not recommend me getting a refurbished s20? That’s the most recent model that still has microSD slots and I’ve seen them for 200. But I’m not sure about security…
I’m rocking an S8 as long as I can, but no updates in 5 years is starting to cause compatability issues. I’ll have to look into /e/OS soon I think.
Showroom7561@lemmy.ca
on 23 Feb 12:52
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As I’ve been making an effort to replace apps with the browser version of the service. It’s so abundantly clear that companies don’t want you using their website.
Even if they don’t outright cripple functionality, they’ll hound you endlessly to install the app.
It’s because you have control over your browser, but they control their app and all its trackers, ads, etc
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 14:54
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Yep. They want you to use apps, cause all the permissions you give the app makes it much easier for them to harvest all your data for marketing and selling purposes.
Man I miss this era of the internet. It truly felt like a new frontier.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub
on 23 Feb 15:08
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I clicked, but all I got was a dancing stripper and something called Conficker.
rottingleaf@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 15:21
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Then you could agree with any barely computer-savvy person that such things should be killed with fire.
Now a lot of very competent person will try to persuade you how you are a luddite and wrong, except 5-10 years ago they’d also promise some bright tech future in addition to that, and now you’re just wrong because they can exist in that environment and like it, and you can’t.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub
on 23 Feb 16:19
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you can’t.
Can, but refuse. Big distinction for me. I’ve lived through these arguments once already, and have watched their computers keel over and die several time from the viruses these toolbars often bring, and I will now watch as their phones do the same.
Every service and site had their own malicious toolbar they’d ask you to install and / or* sneak it into the install for other software. They also came loaded with malware and or siphoned data from you. Older/more tech illiterate people would have browsers looking like the picture above and come to you wondering why their computer is so slow or why they keep getting viruses.
Plus the even simpler: apps are like browser “toolbars” because they’re just a veneer to collect more data, add more tracking, appear to be useful without actually benefitting the user over a simple web page
Jakdracula@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 13:07
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I have an app for that.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 23 Feb 13:14
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YES full support! I have and am sending this from my smartphone but I’ll stop going to your store before I download your stupid fucking app for a free mcflurry or whatever the fuck pisspoor excuse you have for installing malware on my devices.
dirthawker0@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 14:22
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I’m in California where we have a grocery chain, Safeway. They’ve had a loyalty card for decades, which works great, gets you good deals, can be scanned by the checkout clerk or at self checkout. It also racks up points which can be used for discounts.
About 2 years ago I started seeing signs in the store offering even greater savings through the app. There will sometimes be 2 signs side by side for the loyalty card vs the app. The app is always a better deal.
So I downloaded the app and learned
the app cannot scan your membership at self checkout, you have to be checked out by a clerk
the app’s membership number is different from your loyalty card number and the two cannot be merged.
because of that your points can’t be transferred to the app
It’s the dumbest thing ever. Why not just offer the better savings to the loyalty card? Isn’t that the whole point behind loyalty? I literally shop at Safeway less often now.
In the US, if you don’t have the loyalty card, you’re paying more for groceries. For the stores we use, any sale prices are contingent upon using the loyalty card. This can add up to $5-$10 per order.
Oh the same bullshit is done here with Loblaws. I don’t care. They have my info every time I use my credit card at their store that’s all they need and it’s all they get.
If I have to pay more because they’re greedy little fuckpigs so be it.
nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
on 23 Feb 18:18
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We used to be free from such bullshit, but some companies have started trying to bring similar systems here in Brazil, especially drugstore brands that would ask for our id number in every order to give “discounts”. Fortunately, this practice is now being investigated, and I hope the companies lose the case.
I use a loyalty card pretty often. It’s just that it is almost always another customer’s card) And in case this is not available - a barcode of some rando’s loyalty card I found online, the valid ones are often easy to find.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 14:53
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Loyalty cards werent a great thing either.
They werent to reward your loyalty, they were to tie your purchase history to an individual, So that information can be used and sold for marketing purposes.
It was basically the prototype for the invasive, information stealing apps we have today.
starman2112@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Feb 19:03
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Can’t your purchases be tied to you via credit/debit card number? I mean obviously you can use cash, but I don’t see a lot of people using cash
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 19:06
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yes, that still doesnt give the store your home address, phone number, etc etc like signing up for a rewards card does.
NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml
on 23 Feb 15:30
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“It’s the dumbest thing ever. Why not just offer the better savings to the loyalty card?”
it’s not a flaw. it’s a feature.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Feb 17:09
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Food Lion (East coast, not sure if they’re national) has a fairly good loyalty program. Your loyalty card number on the physical card or in the app are the same, you can load coupons to it so they’re applied at checkout if they’re relevant, you can use their ordinary website if you don’t have/want to use a smart phone app…it’s non-cancerous.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 14:49
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everyone wants to force you to use apps instead of websites, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of apps are just websites…in a app wrapper, because normal websites and normal browsers have inbuilt protections for you.
Apps don’t.
Idiots install apps, give them the 400,000 permissions they ask for, then go on their merry way…ignorant to the fact that they just installed a data vacuum on their phone thats siphoning everything off of it to be used and sold and resold for marketing purposes… Even the phone itself its not safe, cause its sitting there, listening to your conversations, even when not on a call, to more “Accurately” spam you with bullshit.
Right off the top of my head, I can mention an entire finacial institution that only exists through an app. No website, no physical locations, no nothing. It’s one app and that is it.
We’re talking of what is, technically a bank (Moey), that entered my country through another bank. What is even stranger is that you can’t even go to one of those banks and make a deposit on you account.
I use the services of what you can consider the most de-materialized bank in my country, which has less than twenty physical locations in the entire country, but they have a very robust help line and you can use the locations of another bank in the same group to deposit money to your account.
But Moey? Either the money is wired in or your stuck.
starman2112@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Feb 19:05
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I mean I use Cashapp, but I could also not use it and my life wouldn’t be much harder
I don’t know what Cashapp is but I’m going to take the risk and say it’s a fintech that handles direct money services. How off am I?
But I’m talking about a bank. The institution only exists through an app. Let’s say you do a odd job and you get paid cash. You can’t deposit that money: there is no place or way to do so.
starman2112@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Feb 22:20
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fintech that handles direct money services
A perfect description
Cashapp is also sort of an entirely online pseudo bank. There are places that let you deposit and withdraw cash, but they’re like two steps above Bitcoin ATMs
I do know people who have these fully online banks though. On its own, it’s a lot less convenient then just having an account with a local credit union where you can withdraw cash for free, and I really don’t like that services like Venmo and Cashapp and Zelle are overtaking just handing physical dollar bills to each other
I am still using a flip phone. My new goal is to make it to 2027 marking two decades of rejecting the smartphone era. Each time I consider compromising something gets even more awful about smartphones and I double down on saying no.
nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br
on 23 Feb 18:28
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Don’t lose hope, lead the resistance!
Out of curiosity, how many flip phones have you used since 2007?
I hope you can see that, as an owner of a Android flip phone, it is annoying to see people use “flip phone” as a synonym for “dumb phone”. BTW not all dumb phones were flip phones, only the final wave of dumb phones generally were.
@btaf45@nossaquesapao thank god someone had pointed this out because I'm old and I've been getting confused. Nokia 3310 all the way
dukeofdummies@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 17:31
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I for one cheer and root for my flip phone friends.
I’d never do it, but we have one at work and he’s singlehandedly causing so much grief at work. Because none of the engineers wanna use a security app for login. They want a fob.
IT refuses to pay for fobs and wants us to use an app, but they also don’t want to pay for a phone for anyone in engineering just to use the security app because it opens a floodgate of people with company phones.
It’s just wonderful to watch this fight from the sidelines sipping tea.
Presumably they’re expensive and someone needs to manage them.
My company’s approach is “we’ll pay your phone bill if you use an Authenticator app on your phone.” Cheaper for them, plus they don’t need to buy company phones or fobs, and who’s going to complain about their phone bill getting paid?
A previous company tried similar but required putting your phone under enterprise management. A lot of us disagreed with that
Well, my old company sure made a ridiculous profit selling them. You may be looking at the cost per fob hardware, but not including the management cost. They are much more expensive than an authentication app, plus authentication apps are mostly managed by someone else, and you don’t have distribution overhead
In my experience, the only thing that really made them more difficult than managing end users who were using an authentication app instead was having to facilitate getting the fob to the users and replacing them occasionally and they were dirt cheap… Like less than $5 apiece.
My job does this too. It’s literally just cost cutting. The fobs expire and need to be replaced every so often but the app lasts “forever”.
IMO the fobs pay for themselves because what they are spending on fobs is the same as what they’re spending on IT members answering calls all day for employees that are having login issues with the app.
HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Feb 22:18
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I worked a job where I had to have an app that tracked me wherever I went. I finally had to tell my boss I couldn’t use it anymore because it was killing my battery in like 3 hours.
If I was still working and a job wanted me to put an app on my personal phone I’d tell them to go fuck themselves.
Just another way capitalists thieve money from its workers.
I have no smartphone and am unable to access any of my college resources or email from home because you need a security app for remote login.
I’ve got in trouble a few times for it but idk what I’m supposed to do. I wasn’t able to access my Exam Timetable because of this and had to ask some friends when the exams were because my teachers didn’t know (somehow). It’s very annoying.
Edit:
It also took a few weeks of difficulty to get the free bus pass the college gives out as they only gave it out on the bus pass app, I have a card that you scan, I’ve never had any issues with the card and yet EVERY day people complain about the app not working as you need an internet connection (in an area with dodgy internet) for the app and the app is apparently not very good in other areas. I think people are starting to get jealous of my bus pass card.
FreakinSteve@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 18:11
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The same goes for customer loyalty cards. All market tracking schemes should be rightfully banned.
VerdantSporeSeasoning@lemmy.ca
on 23 Feb 18:51
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What ticks my off is that I have the stupid Safeway card and the stupid Kroger card. But now there’s more deals, better deals if I do a digital coupon requiring the app on my phone, too. It’s not enough to know about all the regular items in my home, from celery to toilet paper, but they also must need to hoover up all my digital into as well? Dude, just buy it from Meta or whichever jerks have it all. Half-price grapes ain’t the right price.
HappyStarDiaz@real.lemmy.fan
on 23 Feb 21:20
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Yeah multiple layers of s***; I’ll be honest I never figured out how to use the digital coupons for the second layer of discount; seems like it’s not in the Kroger app but some other scammy telemetry scamming 3rs party. I paid the $2.99 for the ice cream I stead of 1.99
JackbyDev@programming.dev
on 23 Feb 18:36
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I keep seeing this headline and thinking it’s a slur
TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
on 23 Feb 19:05
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Not having a phone really sucks in this day and age. Imagine getting out of jail for something stupid like marijuana possession and then a parole violation due to a missed appointment. No one will hire you with your rap sheet. You live in a halfway house with a bunch of petty BS every day. And you can’t keep up with your parole demands because of how much your lack of a phone gets in your way. At the end of the day, there IS a way to succeed if you make the right choices, but shit, it’s just so much harder for some people to make the right choices when every day is crisis mode. And all because of WHAT?
Matriks404@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 21:45
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I recently shared a meal with a female friend. Imagine how I’d look if I wasn’t able to get money transferred from her, because of not having a mobile banking app.
novacomets@lemmy.myserv.one
on 23 Feb 22:38
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I’m open to hear if you guys disagree with me, but that is not simply about not having a smartphone as much as it is about not having cell service, not using data service. If a person uses a libre VoIP app, there is no need for cell service, and people actually can live happy lives disconnected from internet when they are outside or in public.
Society must revert their mentality and not expect constant immediate access to everything. Absolutely nothing happens on the internet for personal activity that can’t wait a few hours or the next day.
I use phone only for direct communication, zero multimedia, zero social media on phone. Everything else is done on computer. Especially banking, that is on computer website only for security, never on phone. I despise and resent using a phone for websites
threaded - newest
I flat-out refuse to do business with any that requires I use an app. I won’t even scan a QR code for a restaurant menu; that’s my cue to go eat elsewhere.
I don’t mind the whole online menu thing. It’s probably an environmental net positive, but it’s bs if they don’t have ANY physical copies for those who can’t or don’t want to for whatever reason.
If they wanted me to install something, though, that’d be a 100% instant nope.
An online menu requires power to be used (on people’s phones and the server). Is that really a minor contribution in comparison to printing paper and maybe laminating it?
Considering your average printer is a piece of shit that needs to be replaced quite often, yes, using a website is probably more energy efficient.
Most companies will be using laser printers, some of which may outlive me. Toner is cheap and lasts an age.
Inkjet printers are cheap for a reason. They’re a scam.
This person has never seen the power bill for running a high-availability server with several failovers once in their lives.
In fairness neither have I - though I suspect it’s not as insignificant as others have claimed.
It’s not insignificant at all. Servers are beefy and take more power than a standard PC… a lot more. Further, failover servers mean you have to have exact copies of the same server up and available, which means you’re doubling, tripling, quadrupling power demands. Finally, you also have to have Uninterruptible Power Supplies, those take an amount of power as well.
It’s a huge power draw. I know because I have a bunch of low-power devices runnig 24/7 as microservices and it still increase my power bill and use by a lot. I regularly get letters from the power company about how I’m using like 3x the power of the average person in my type of unit.
I’m also using a lot of self hosted things but have never received any of those.
Where do you reside generally where they’re sending them because it ain’t a thing here in the UK?
US, west coast.
It’s not meant to make a person feel attacked as much as gently nudging them to use less power.
Pretty sure its even automated.
I don’t think I’d feel “attacked” but more impressed that I came to light if they sent me them very much like a naughty “copyright warning” and would send it back with a brick in it.
Cheers!
I had not considered that an uninterruptible power supply would be consuming power after charging. I suppose no electronics are 100% efficient at what they do.
I’ve been playing with a Proxmox server on an ITX system for local services and rare game hosting for friends. I’d love something low power I could have on all the time.
You can host a webserver on a Raspberry Pi. I don’t know what you’re doing with your setup but you absolutely do not need hundreds of watts to serve a few hundred KB worth of static webpage or PDF file. This website is powered by a 30 watt solar panel attached to a car battery on some guy’s apartment balcony. As of writing its at 71% charge.
An Ampere Altra Max CPU has 128 ARM cores (the same architecture that a raspberry pi uses), with a 250 watt max TDP. That works out to about 2 watts per core. Each of those cores is more than enough to serve a little static webpage on its own, but in reality since a lot of these sites get less than 200 hits per day the power cost can be amortized over thousands of them, and the individual cores can go to sleep if there’s still not enough work to do. Go ahead and multiply that number by 4 for failover if you want, its still not a lot. (Not that the restaurant knows or cares about any of this, all this would be decided by a team of people at a massive IT company that the restaurant bought webpage hosting from).
That and those servers are going to be running anyway. Powering a simple restaurant website is a grain of sand on the beach of internet usage.
Yeah, exactly. If you’re worried about the power draw to host a few hundred KB PDF file, you probably shouldn’t be using Lemmy, because scrolling through your feed probably uses 100x that in energy costs.
You have to remember that the shared hosting or aws, or wherever is going to be cheapest to host a simple website is also going to be very power efficient. Wasting power is just throwing away free money, and if there’s one thing corporations don’t do, it’s throw away free money.
Generally companies use service contracts to keep those things working so mo they wouldn’t be replaced often. They are just a piece of shit
I mean I simply refuse to as QR code phishing is a thing
You might enjoy SecScannerQR then. It makes it easier to vet QR codes by giving an option to search for the URL instead of going there directly.
f-droid.org/en/…/de.t_dankworth.secscanqr/
Ooh. Now do iOS.
Ew
No, you stop doing iOS.
Isn’t that standard behavior though? I’ve never seen anything that opens a URL directly instead of just showing it to you with an option to access it.
I mean you just need to audit the URL before going there.
The funny thing about qr codes for restaurant menus to me, as someone that studied menu design. Is that actual menus are designed specific ways make the restaurant more profit and make it easier for people to find what they want. Whereas qr codes often bring one to a hastily designed list of categories which are not only less intuitive but also less manipulative. So people will end up taking longer to order less profitable dishes.
Hell yeah, consumer win. I like selecting an item and it offers me changes or addition options that I never would have considered!
But really, it means they can hire less people so they gain profit anyway.
I’ve been to some that try to upsell you during the checkout process. Big pop up comes up “Add x to your order for $y.99!” Shut the fuck up!
Scan QR code. Order on your phone. Pay on your phone. Asks for a tip.
So uh, what exactly am I tipping you here for dawg?
that stuff is nice as an option. There’s a bar I go to that I can order my food and drink to the table my friends are at, while I’m walking to the place, and everything just arrives shortly after I sit down. Other people get offended about how fast I get served, it’s always amusing. I also enjoy not interacting with the staff, nothing against them, brain just doesn’t brain sometimes.
But what if I didn’t have a phone? or if I left home without it? 24/7 pocket rectangle is not natural.
Losing your phone now is like losing not just your wallet but simple access to everything.
Can confirm. Brother had his phone stuck in LA for 2 weeks.
There’s probably more but those affected him the most. Genuinely weird that in 2025 alarm clocks are stuck in 1985.
Like when ordering bubble tea
Dennis Takes a Mental Health Day is probably the most accurate portrayal of me ever written.
Worst thing about qr menus for me is that when I finally order, I have to give my phone number and address. Bro, I’m sitting across from the kitchen and just want dumplings. Why I gotta dox myself for that?
There should be a warning label on any establishment or product that requires a smartphone to use.
How about this:
At the apartments I recently moved out of, there were no quarter slots on the washing machines. They were an app that required a bluetooth connection to pay.
So if you lived there and didn’t have a smartphone? Go fuck yourself, you don’t get to do laundry.
Unless you bothered to check the laundry room when you were looking at the apartment, you wouldn’t know. No warnings.
That…
Is that not illegal where you live?
America has next to no protections for tenants, only landlords.
Thank god they decided to keep these free where I live
That depends a bit on if it was advertised or not to have a laundry room. At least here in NL it is more common to have your own washing machine than to use a shared one so having a laundry room would be an extra to start with.
Still sucks though
Tbf, my building also uses an app for laundry. However they also have a machine in the laundry rooms where you can purchase an NFC payment card and put money on it. So you can use it without the app. Is that not the case with yours? If not, that’s 100% fucked
The more insane thing here for me is the fact that there isn’t a washing machine inside your apartment.
(btw lived in such once, apparently the owner wasn’t very wealthy. We washed everything by hand)
It’s actually incredibly common in US apartments for laundry to be a common area.
Having a unit in your apartment means you’re at least well-to-do. Poor people can mostly go fuck themselves.
There was a food truck I went to one time that required you to download some app to look at their menu and order your food. They refused to accept a credit card or cash. I walked. So fucking stupid. I don’t know why people allow shit like that to exist.
i don’t have one. i don’t want one, either.
If you don’t have a smart phone in the US, even temporally, your almost a second class citizen.
Then if you don’t install corporate apps on your phone, there are even more problems for you.
You can still live in the US without apps... For now
Social Friendly Browser can usualky get around this
Even if you did want apps the majority only offer it from 1 of the 2 popular repositories (" stores "). It’s a shame they do not have a way to track that lost sale/interaction.
especially if you don’t have an iphone. I have seen so many accessories and apps that were made for use on iphones which would also be useful for android devices as well. my transplant clinic has a patient portal that has an app for iphones but nothing for android so you have to use their website.
I switched thermostats due to the old one failing, and getting a basic smart thermostat was required for a hefty rebate that basically made it free… and the one I have now, the app thought my not-major-brand phone was a tablet. I couldn’t hit the button to turn down the heat, only up, because it was cut off due to scaling.
So yeah, requiring apps for interface is bad. Even if you are willing to use it there’s so freakin many various versions of android that it’s guaranteed to not work properly for a whole swath of people, mostly those on budget devices.
Especially given that some of the common budget devices, like Huawei, lacks Google services. It is the reason why all the major banks here except one don’t require Google services.
You don’t need an app to use a loyalty card…
But yes I am against supermarkets that only provide discounts if you use their loyalty program, which in turn allows them to track your purchases. Especially since many items are priced with the discount as the “fair” price and the full price is really just a money grab.
Man, I’m torn on this one.
We have two grocery stores in our exurban area.
Kroger, as a corporation, contributes to politicians of both US parties in roughly equal measure. Less than ideal (zero contributions), but not too bad I guess. But, they do have an obnoxious customer loyalty card program. Boo!
Publix, on the other hand, doesn’t have a customer loyalty card program at all. Yay! But, the corporation and their leadership contribute HEAVILY to the new Trumpy GOP, Matt Gaetz in particular. So, fuck them.
I’m boycotting Publix. Lesser of two evils I guess.
I really wish we had a locally-owned mom ’n pop grocery. I’d pay a premium for that.
Contributing to that Kinderficker changes my opinion of Publix.
This kinda shit is why I go to Aldi instead. They give everyone the same low prices. Tesco have their clubcard and seeing how much more they want to charge me for not having one puts me off ever going there on a regular basis.
Also under 18s can’t get these loyalty cards here so fuck you I guess you have to pay a load more.
Same. We have two grocery stores nearby, both with loyalty programs. One requires using the program to get discounts, while the other doesn’t (you just miss out on points). Guess which I shop at…
If I need to go to the other one (Kroger family), I’ll use my parents’ number so they get the points. I go maybe once/year if there’s a particularly good deal.
Last time I went to a new-to-me grocery store that I didn’t have a loyalty card for, I just used [local area code]-867-5309. Jenny hasn’t failed me yet.
If you do the calculation, the discount you get in the end is often just 1%. I don’t really care about that 1%. You can get more, but the time you have to invest to get a better deal makes less money than just work an extra hour.
And some of those loyalty programs have expiring points, that happen to expire just before you get to the tier when things get interesting. And when you do save up to the food stuff you find out the app is a lot better at collecting loyalty points and doesn’t work so great at exchanging them.
The main thing this article is talking about is supermarkets in the UK that lock all their sale offers behind the loyalty card. Until about a year or two ago, you could go in and buy things on sale or buy one get one free or whatever offer, and then use (or don’t use) your loyalty card on top (to collect/spend points), but now you don’t get any discounts if you don’t have a loyalty card.
The article/campaigners are spinning this up into something about smartphones, because that’s how most people use these loyalty schemes now, but they still have the old style cards so that’s a bit of a red herring. The real issue is the way they’re tying their standard offers to the loyalty program, and making it more difficult for consumers not to get caught out paying full price.
I literally had to switch bank accounts because I couldn’t reset my password “on the web” and required me to use Virgin Money’s app.
Customer service agent(s) on the phone after prolonged discussions why their app wouldn’t work on three Android phones right in front of me surfaced, and I shit you not
That day I found out about this
www.currentaccountswitch.co.uk
have you tried stop being poor?!
Maybe I could try buying and scalping an iPhone on eBay
:thinky face:
Kids these days just don't want to work
See that’s the thing, I work far too hard and after a night shift and then getting onto a “customer support” agent reveals the cracks in our society.
Maybe you could work harder too!
Everyone I know works pretty hard and is underpaid but the teeveeue keeps saying nobody wants to work.
Deep inside I know the teevee never lies 🤡
It was the sheer arrogance of that “supervisor” I escalated it to and I hate to think how someone like a pensioner would’ve dealt with them that day wanting to access their bank account, especially since all the local branches have been closed 👺
RIP Yorkshire Bank
Begin by just getting a house already.
So am so tired of people crying about it.
JFC just ask mom and dad for the down payment.... Can't you holdna a steady job?!
I also had to switch accounts because after an update, the banking app didn’t work any longer on my rooted phone and I couldn’t log in. Thankfully, I’ve been keeping two accounts since forever, with the main motivation being that banks really like changing their TOS and introducing all sorts of fees, which I don’t want.
Everything by Virgin is shit. I don’t understand why they’re so big
the problem is also apple’s slow adoption (or outright refusal) to open up various web apis to make web apps more prevalent.
Get out of the stone age.
I’m probably gonna get clowned for feeding the troll, but - this comment comes off a lot more harsh if you’ve ever experienced not having access to the Internet and a smartphone or computer.
I spent the better part of 16 years of my life with no TV, MP3 player, phone, Internet, or computer - and it has negatively impacted me in immeasurable ways. I couldn’t find work, because I couldn’t apply for jobs but also I didn’t know you could do that on the Internet - I also didn’t know YouTube existed, so I missed out on learning the things I liked, and I didn’t know I was being abused because I had no way of knowing that it wasn’t normal until I got access to help, via the Internet.
I wasn’t in the stone age - if I’d had options to do any of the above without a phone or the Internet, I’d be a different person today. Shut up, mate - not everyone can afford or has the opportunity to own a smartphone and data plan (which are rare and expensive in abusive situations like my past). Making services available in places like libraries and community centers without requiring smartphones and Internet would help so many people who have no ability to use them - those people are just as human as you.
and by the way while we’re at it: if we’re effectively paywalling access to basic human rights behind an IP address and cellular radio, those should be enshrined as human rights too.
I was raised in the boondocks. You couldn’t get reception there back in the 90’s, and there weren’t any kids or neighbors that I could visit without having to be driven. My parents didn’t have any community at all, so I in turn never learned how to socialize properly. To say the least, I never became comfortable with phones, even after moving into civilization. It just wasn’t part of me.
Isolation from people is a huge disadvantage in life, you don’t get to make friends, network, or learn what it means to be part of society. Here’s hoping that cellphones and whatnot become rights, as you have said.
However, some states might provide SSI recipients a LifeConnect program. You get a free smartphone and low-end plan.
yep, I know this feeling all too well - having a community and friends is important but even more so in cases like ours. Thank you for the comment, I hope you’re doing better nowadays.
Someone make a smartphone that isn’t a steaming pile of shit then. The pinephone was so close but struggled with SMS when I tried it.
this comment makes me wish for a Carrington Event in the 21st century
A mobile app requirement is an easy excuse for me to nope the fuck out.
My old apartment had gates that could only be opened with an app. They took out the card reader and made it app only. Should have gotten out of there much earlier than I did.
Yeah, that’s a nope from me. I’m trying to eliminate as many apps from my life as I can.
the gates that slide over using a chain, they often have a removable link at the end. If you unhook the chain on the opener side, it will open one more time, then spit all the chain out trying to close it. I used to take that link out when living in complexes with those gates. Made life easier for most. Would take months for it to get fixed. They are just standard 1/2in x1/8in bike chain.
It’s also a gigantic information harvesting ploy.
The whole using your phone for everything from grocery shopping to just doing whatever Like getting deals or whatever?, Can it please go away?
They’re collecting our data anyways.
This affects me a lot day to day. I have a phone, but it runs postmarketOS, not iOS or Android. It really shows me the importance of open standards. I feel that every business should be required to support open standards for each of the services they offer.
For me, buying train tickets used to be ok, but is getting harder now. Some train operators are really pushing you to use their app now, and getting rid of the option to download a PDF. It really frustrates me: it’s not like it costs them more to offer PDF download - if anything, it’s much cheaper to offer that functionality than to build and maintain an app for iOS and Android.
Back when I had an Android phone, I used Monzo, and it was so easy to send money to friends, set up standing orders etc. I wish they offered a proper web interface. Now, I use Natwest’s online banking, and it’s a real pain - I use the card reader to authenticate, then the website logs me out seemingly every 2 mins of inactivity. Some features, like pre-notifying that you’ll be travelling abroad, are only available on the app. I only see this trend continuing.
The concert tickets example in the article is insane to me. I can’t think of a use case that is better suited for PDFs, and that’s what we’ve been doing for the last 10+ years without any issues. It really is user hostile and excludes people on the edges of society who don’t fit, for whatever reason, with what the 80-90% do.
apps allow user tracking and advertising though. Much more valuable to the corpos than a few lost customers.
Also mich More valuable to Google, as they are the biggest Advertising company. I looked it up and according to this source they have ~70% of the pay-per-click market.
The reason venues don’t allow PDFs is so that you’re forced to use their own platform for resale where they take a commission.
Get $50.
also those who dont want to install that spyware shit on their phones. Even if you dont care about the data collection it still consumes battery faster as more and more data is being transferred
McDonald’s (in Germany at least) needs your location to “see when you arrive at the restaurant”. What the hell?! That doesn’t even work properly and they force it on me! I uninstalled the app and now I am actually happy, because without the promotion and discount stuff, I don’t eat McDanks that often anymore.
I use an app for OTR (petrol chain in Aus) and they’ve removed the requirement for location which is… Unexpected, to say the least. Anything except using the pumps on the app no longer needs it when all orders previously needed it.
Thats actually pretty nice. And on the subject of cars: I don’t get why (some) people with E-Cars say they are so much “greener” and then use like 10 different apps for the car, recharging, etc. Those servers produce so much, really, so god damn much CO2… (Not saying combustion engines are better, but…)
My Kia Sportage PHEV came with a “Kia Connect” app. There is a monthly charge but I get first 3 years for free. It’s got some sort of useful things but I don’t really use it much anymore. More likely than not I won’t bother to pay for it when the free years are up.
McDonald’s wants your IQ too. Seriously, it’s in their privacy policy.
Ok, that is crazy.
Hello McDonalds. My IQ is 500, so do I get like, free stuff or something?
Yeah, I couldn’t be arsed to install that shit. I’m also not taking out my phone for this kind of bullshit. I’m sick and tired of smartphones.
Any time I’m required to use an app for something that could be a website, I leave the app a one star review.
!smartphone_required@lemmy.sdf.org
That is what I noticed. Everything these days require app to get shopping vouchers, book tickets, go in to your local gym, pay in store (we are being weaned off from using cash) etc.
I can’t even go to a high school football game without having an app.
Cloudalist’s and their technofuedalism
“Continue reading this on the reddit/instagram/tik tok/blablah app” No, I didn’t need to see it that badly.
Even the homeless in my city have smartphones.
Even if I was willing to download all of those apps I don’t have room for them. They chew up 50-300mb each (why!?) and if I installed all of them I’d run out of memory. Since most phones now don’t support memory expansion I have to be picky about which ones I use.
I have THREE separate parking apps because I travel.
The reason they’re so huge is
Mobile apps are also loaded with third party ad and spyware frameworks which bloats up the size.
Same thing with rendering/layout/functionality frameworks. And each app has their own.
My favorite Android app, Trail Sense, which has the ability to know when sunrise and sunset are without Internet, is like 10MB
Every app is a bundle of a full website and spyware.
Well of course not. If phones supported memory expansion you would just buy more memory, instead of buying an entirely new phone Don’t even get me started on how bloated these apps have become. I used Paperclip word processor on a Commodore-64; you can not convince me that your app needs to be 50+ Megs in size.
You can’t compare (what is arguably) the peak of human computing to modern phones.
…I miss the c64
Edit: fixed pique to peak. Sorry. Autocorrect got me again
.
And that’s one of the benefits from open source apps. I have a very low end and dated phone, and yet I have more apps installed and hardware functionality than the average person, because I grab everything I can from f-droid. It’s amazing how much smaller and performant everything is.
I actually wrote my own text editor for the C-64
I am still on a flip phone. It is usually silent, and I don’t spend much time with it at all. While I am missing out on discounts and such, I simply hate the idea of constantly using a phone. Email is my telecommunication of choice, but receptionists don’t understand the idea, unfortunately.
My household bought a Rinnai water heater, and the bastard needed a phone to set the temperature. Thing is, it couldn’t communicate with the two or three phones that were used on it. Fortunately, there was an old-school modification for a physical keypad, but that had to be bought separately.
Phones are just not my thing.
I used a flip phone for a month to help curb my screen time addiction. The number of restaurants, stores, etc. that simply expect it of you to have a smart phone was eye opening.
I have seen a bit of that, but every time it turned out to have an option without. For example, one chain wanted you to use an app for making orders - but when you say “I am sorry, I have a dumbphone”, it turns out there is a tablet for this on the reception.
Yep, the homeless pay more!
Remember the meltdown over “Obamaphones”?
I use GraphineOS on my Pixel 7 and even I feel penalized for caring about my privacy. Its absolutely nonsense, not everything needs an app.
Yeah. My bank is one of the few UK banks whose app won’t work with Graphene, which is irritating. Also, the lack of Wallet access for payment cards is annoying.
But all in all everything else works fine.
These useless apps make Linux phone adoption harder, fuck them!
that is your takeaway? You’re part of a cult if that’s really how you think.
Part of a cult for wanting more options…
Not more options, you want your option to win.
And? Apple and Google are too big and influential as they’re. Why go attacking the little guys?
Because a Linux phone is objectively superior, duh
Linux is awesome, what are you crying about?
You’re an idiot or you’re trolling, I honestly can’t tell.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ea24b0bb-f4f3-44da-9a77-86239edfece4.gif">
I’m never trolling about Linux. On Lemmy there are so many cultists that you can say the most innocuous things and it will be downvoted to oblivion or deleted for “trolling”. Maybe you don’t like calling it a cult but I get more downvoted for negative comments about Linux than other people do when they literally say Nazi things.
And then you get people like this…I mean what kind of broken prejudiced brain do you have to have to think this comparison is ok?
lemmy.world/comment/15265938
“You’re a cultist!” screamed the cultist, angry at people for using something other than what the cultist prefers.
Calling people “cultists” doesn’t sound very “innocuous”.
We want other options to be allowed to exist. This is “you just want everyone to be gay/trans/whatever” all over again.
Oof you’re comparing government suppression of entire classes of people to linux’ failure to attract developers to the platform… How do you not realize you’re in a cult???
What does that even mean?
Most people here would be satisfied with a working website they can access from any browser or OS, mobile or desktop.
Ill be part of that cult
I still miss firefox os and feel sad for them not succeeding. Their app system could have become a multiplatform standard and allow us to have much more options in the smartphone market, as well as better desktop integration and interoperability :(
they make older phones become useless after ditching their support
My S21 is on the verge of losing regular security updates, and I hate it. The battery is fine, the camera is more than adequate, I do not want to upgrade.
Mine decided to randomly start rebooting about a year ago. :( Tried everything I could think of to get it to work normally, but nothing helped. I couldn’t rely on it, so I had to replace it. Like you, I hadn’t planned to replace it any time soon.
I have an S10e in service, it’s perfectly fine.
I saw whoever has the Nokia name now is selling smart phones designed to be end user disassembled and repairable, but they’re really mum about how long their software support is.
So would you not recommend me getting a refurbished s20? That’s the most recent model that still has microSD slots and I’ve seen them for 200. But I’m not sure about security…
I’m rocking an S8 as long as I can, but no updates in 5 years is starting to cause compatability issues. I’ll have to look into /e/OS soon I think.
As I’ve been making an effort to replace apps with the browser version of the service. It’s so abundantly clear that companies don’t want you using their website.
Even if they don’t outright cripple functionality, they’ll hound you endlessly to install the app.
It’s infuriating to say the least.
Still don’t understand the logic of doing that.
It’s like saying,
“Our website is nigh unusable, please install our app instead. We pinky promise our app works”.
It’s because you have control over your browser, but they control their app and all its trackers, ads, etc
Yep. They want you to use apps, cause all the permissions you give the app makes it much easier for them to harvest all your data for marketing and selling purposes.
That’s exactly it. Easy to block ads and trackers on a website, but more difficult or impossible on some apps.
One of the banking apps won’t show the total balance of the account unless I’m using the app. How ridiculous.
Phone apps are nothing more than modern toolbars. And in case you forgot or missed this phase of the internet…
<img alt="" src="https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/f93795b8-8f39-4595-9f0c-336dc40f2f36.png">
“2020 search”
Bruh someone’s grandma needs help, we need to fix this computer, it looks like it’s about to get stuck on zombo.com.
Or Jen hahaha
Nothing wrong with getting stuck on zombo.com. After all you can do anything there.
Click to win a FREE LOBSTER Dinner 🦀🦞🦐
Man I miss this era of the internet. It truly felt like a new frontier.
I clicked, but all I got was a dancing stripper and something called Conficker.
Then you could agree with any barely computer-savvy person that such things should be killed with fire.
Now a lot of very competent person will try to persuade you how you are a luddite and wrong, except 5-10 years ago they’d also promise some bright tech future in addition to that, and now you’re just wrong because they can exist in that environment and like it, and you can’t.
Can, but refuse. Big distinction for me. I’ve lived through these arguments once already, and have watched their computers keel over and die several time from the viruses these toolbars often bring, and I will now watch as their phones do the same.
Yeah, Bonzi Buddy!
Peak internet wdym
No argument there, especially with Bonzi Buddy lol
I missed that phase because I was using Netscape.
Then you didn’t miss it. You glossed over it, like a boss
I want a re-made Bonzi buddy with AI.
I don’t vouch for these, as I have not used them. But, I found this rewritten one and this one with LLM.
Could you expand on that thought a bit more? How is an app like the internet tool bars of old?
Genuinely curious. I’m a little too young to have experienced internet toolbars like the ones in your image.
Hooboy
Every service and site had their own malicious toolbar they’d ask you to install and / or* sneak it into the install for other software. They also came loaded with malware and or siphoned data from you. Older/more tech illiterate people would have browsers looking like the picture above and come to you wondering why their computer is so slow or why they keep getting viruses.
@alekwithak @techforwhat Norton Antivirus is still at it
Ohh, I see. That makes a lot of sense. I understand the comparison now, ty 🙏
Plus the even simpler: apps are like browser “toolbars” because they’re just a veneer to collect more data, add more tracking, appear to be useful without actually benefitting the user over a simple web page
needs more sheep
I have an app for that.
YES full support! I have and am sending this from my smartphone but I’ll stop going to your store before I download your stupid fucking app for a free mcflurry or whatever the fuck pisspoor excuse you have for installing malware on my devices.
Early 2000 wants its internet back
I’m in California where we have a grocery chain, Safeway. They’ve had a loyalty card for decades, which works great, gets you good deals, can be scanned by the checkout clerk or at self checkout. It also racks up points which can be used for discounts.
About 2 years ago I started seeing signs in the store offering even greater savings through the app. There will sometimes be 2 signs side by side for the loyalty card vs the app. The app is always a better deal.
So I downloaded the app and learned
It’s the dumbest thing ever. Why not just offer the better savings to the loyalty card? Isn’t that the whole point behind loyalty? I literally shop at Safeway less often now.
My GF laughs because I have no loyalty cards or apps and I laugh that she has one for everything.
Loyalty rewards are bullshit.
In the US, if you don’t have the loyalty card, you’re paying more for groceries. For the stores we use, any sale prices are contingent upon using the loyalty card. This can add up to $5-$10 per order.
Oh the same bullshit is done here with Loblaws. I don’t care. They have my info every time I use my credit card at their store that’s all they need and it’s all they get.
If I have to pay more because they’re greedy little fuckpigs so be it.
We used to be free from such bullshit, but some companies have started trying to bring similar systems here in Brazil, especially drugstore brands that would ask for our id number in every order to give “discounts”. Fortunately, this practice is now being investigated, and I hope the companies lose the case.
I use a loyalty card pretty often. It’s just that it is almost always another customer’s card) And in case this is not available - a barcode of some rando’s loyalty card I found online, the valid ones are often easy to find.
Loyalty cards werent a great thing either.
They werent to reward your loyalty, they were to tie your purchase history to an individual, So that information can be used and sold for marketing purposes.
It was basically the prototype for the invasive, information stealing apps we have today.
Can’t your purchases be tied to you via credit/debit card number? I mean obviously you can use cash, but I don’t see a lot of people using cash
yes, that still doesnt give the store your home address, phone number, etc etc like signing up for a rewards card does.
it’s not a flaw. it’s a feature.
Food Lion (East coast, not sure if they’re national) has a fairly good loyalty program. Your loyalty card number on the physical card or in the app are the same, you can load coupons to it so they’re applied at checkout if they’re relevant, you can use their ordinary website if you don’t have/want to use a smart phone app…it’s non-cancerous.
everyone wants to force you to use apps instead of websites, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of apps are just websites…in a app wrapper, because normal websites and normal browsers have inbuilt protections for you.
Apps don’t.
Idiots install apps, give them the 400,000 permissions they ask for, then go on their merry way…ignorant to the fact that they just installed a data vacuum on their phone thats siphoning everything off of it to be used and sold and resold for marketing purposes… Even the phone itself its not safe, cause its sitting there, listening to your conversations, even when not on a call, to more “Accurately” spam you with bullshit.
Phones are not listening and if you have proof post it. No security researcher has ever posted this.
[youtu.be/0dGqR4ue8dg?si=tA1s-S3jdz2SwEoo](Idk i trust Snowden’s take on this over yours)
See:
This is why I install such shit only if i have to, and only on vm
I’m shocked.
Right off the top of my head, I can mention an entire finacial institution that only exists through an app. No website, no physical locations, no nothing. It’s one app and that is it.
No way would I use that app.
We’re talking of what is, technically a bank (Moey), that entered my country through another bank. What is even stranger is that you can’t even go to one of those banks and make a deposit on you account.
I use the services of what you can consider the most de-materialized bank in my country, which has less than twenty physical locations in the entire country, but they have a very robust help line and you can use the locations of another bank in the same group to deposit money to your account.
But Moey? Either the money is wired in or your stuck.
I mean I use Cashapp, but I could also not use it and my life wouldn’t be much harder
I don’t know what Cashapp is but I’m going to take the risk and say it’s a fintech that handles direct money services. How off am I?
But I’m talking about a bank. The institution only exists through an app. Let’s say you do a odd job and you get paid cash. You can’t deposit that money: there is no place or way to do so.
A perfect description
Cashapp is also sort of an entirely online pseudo bank. There are places that let you deposit and withdraw cash, but they’re like two steps above Bitcoin ATMs
I do know people who have these fully online banks though. On its own, it’s a lot less convenient then just having an account with a local credit union where you can withdraw cash for free, and I really don’t like that services like Venmo and Cashapp and Zelle are overtaking just handing physical dollar bills to each other
I am still using a flip phone. My new goal is to make it to 2027 marking two decades of rejecting the smartphone era. Each time I consider compromising something gets even more awful about smartphones and I double down on saying no.
Don’t lose hope, lead the resistance!
Out of curiosity, how many flip phones have you used since 2007?
My current phone is a flip phone. A Samsung Galaxy Flip 5
Well, you’re technically correct lol
I hope you can see that, as an owner of a Android flip phone, it is annoying to see people use “flip phone” as a synonym for “dumb phone”. BTW not all dumb phones were flip phones, only the final wave of dumb phones generally were.
@btaf45 @nossaquesapao thank god someone had pointed this out because I'm old and I've been getting confused. Nokia 3310 all the way
I for one cheer and root for my flip phone friends.
I’d never do it, but we have one at work and he’s singlehandedly causing so much grief at work. Because none of the engineers wanna use a security app for login. They want a fob.
IT refuses to pay for fobs and wants us to use an app, but they also don’t want to pay for a phone for anyone in engineering just to use the security app because it opens a floodgate of people with company phones.
It’s just wonderful to watch this fight from the sidelines sipping tea.
what’s the rationale for IT not wanting to pay for the fobs?
Managers probably sold apps as a cost cutting measure
Presumably they’re expensive and someone needs to manage them.
My company’s approach is “we’ll pay your phone bill if you use an Authenticator app on your phone.” Cheaper for them, plus they don’t need to buy company phones or fobs, and who’s going to complain about their phone bill getting paid?
A previous company tried similar but required putting your phone under enterprise management. A lot of us disagreed with that
They’re not expensive at all.
Well, my old company sure made a ridiculous profit selling them. You may be looking at the cost per fob hardware, but not including the management cost. They are much more expensive than an authentication app, plus authentication apps are mostly managed by someone else, and you don’t have distribution overhead
In my experience, the only thing that really made them more difficult than managing end users who were using an authentication app instead was having to facilitate getting the fob to the users and replacing them occasionally and they were dirt cheap… Like less than $5 apiece.
My job does this too. It’s literally just cost cutting. The fobs expire and need to be replaced every so often but the app lasts “forever”.
IMO the fobs pay for themselves because what they are spending on fobs is the same as what they’re spending on IT members answering calls all day for employees that are having login issues with the app.
I worked a job where I had to have an app that tracked me wherever I went. I finally had to tell my boss I couldn’t use it anymore because it was killing my battery in like 3 hours.
If I was still working and a job wanted me to put an app on my personal phone I’d tell them to go fuck themselves.
Just another way capitalists thieve money from its workers.
I have no smartphone and am unable to access any of my college resources or email from home because you need a security app for remote login. I’ve got in trouble a few times for it but idk what I’m supposed to do. I wasn’t able to access my Exam Timetable because of this and had to ask some friends when the exams were because my teachers didn’t know (somehow). It’s very annoying.
Edit:
It also took a few weeks of difficulty to get the free bus pass the college gives out as they only gave it out on the bus pass app, I have a card that you scan, I’ve never had any issues with the card and yet EVERY day people complain about the app not working as you need an internet connection (in an area with dodgy internet) for the app and the app is apparently not very good in other areas. I think people are starting to get jealous of my bus pass card.
You could install an android emulator on your personal computer then run the authenticator from there.
The authenticator requires you to be in the college’s network to set it up for the first time and I don’t have a laptop.
Ah, that does complicate matters. Good luck.
@toynbee @DeaDvey aren't there authenticators that run on desktop browsers? Or does it have to be a specific one
The OC said in a different comment that you must be on the college network to set it up.
You don’t need to tag me, by the way; I get a notification if someone responds to me directly.
sorry, I'm viewing this from mastodon so the setup's different.
All good. Hope you have a great day!
Yes, it’s a specific one. App only.
The same goes for customer loyalty cards. All market tracking schemes should be rightfully banned.
What ticks my off is that I have the stupid Safeway card and the stupid Kroger card. But now there’s more deals, better deals if I do a digital coupon requiring the app on my phone, too. It’s not enough to know about all the regular items in my home, from celery to toilet paper, but they also must need to hoover up all my digital into as well? Dude, just buy it from Meta or whichever jerks have it all. Half-price grapes ain’t the right price.
Yeah multiple layers of s***; I’ll be honest I never figured out how to use the digital coupons for the second layer of discount; seems like it’s not in the Kroger app but some other scammy telemetry scamming 3rs party. I paid the $2.99 for the ice cream I stead of 1.99
At least you can not only ask other customers for their cards, but also sometimes be offered theirs without even asking.
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Risky click of the day.
Dang it!
I fell for it.
I keep seeing this headline and thinking it’s a slur
Not having a phone really sucks in this day and age. Imagine getting out of jail for something stupid like marijuana possession and then a parole violation due to a missed appointment. No one will hire you with your rap sheet. You live in a halfway house with a bunch of petty BS every day. And you can’t keep up with your parole demands because of how much your lack of a phone gets in your way. At the end of the day, there IS a way to succeed if you make the right choices, but shit, it’s just so much harder for some people to make the right choices when every day is crisis mode. And all because of WHAT?
I recently shared a meal with a female friend. Imagine how I’d look if I wasn’t able to get money transferred from her, because of not having a mobile banking app.
Y’all not heard of cash?
I’m open to hear if you guys disagree with me, but that is not simply about not having a smartphone as much as it is about not having cell service, not using data service. If a person uses a libre VoIP app, there is no need for cell service, and people actually can live happy lives disconnected from internet when they are outside or in public.
Society must revert their mentality and not expect constant immediate access to everything. Absolutely nothing happens on the internet for personal activity that can’t wait a few hours or the next day.
I use phone only for direct communication, zero multimedia, zero social media on phone. Everything else is done on computer. Especially banking, that is on computer website only for security, never on phone. I despise and resent using a phone for websites