Russia tests cutting itself off from the rest of the internet (www.techspot.com)
from RmDebArc_5@sh.itjust.works to technology@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 06:26
https://sh.itjust.works/post/29417598

#technology

threaded - newest

just_another_person@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 06:27 next collapse

DO IT

mosiacmango@lemm.ee on 13 Dec 06:37 next collapse

Their hacking teams will still be connected.

Pistcow@lemm.ee on 13 Dec 06:47 next collapse

I meam, the rest of the world could cut them off.

IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 07:14 collapse

Nah, those spies we have in Moscow needs a way to communicate.

TheBat@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 12:24 collapse

Satellite phones?

IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 12:28 collapse

Its easier to hide traffic when its using the internet, everyone uses the internet. The average person doesn’t have satellite phones, so if russian intelligence agencies are detecting a satellite phone signal, thats most likely a spy. Spies would risk blowing their cover.

jimmy90@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 08:55 collapse

would make it a lot easier to identify malicious traffic - all of it :)

john89@lemmy.ca on 13 Dec 15:05 collapse

No, let’s not encourage this even as a joke.

All cutting Russia off from the rest of the internet will do is making them more radicalized and give even less opportunities for good ideas and good people to fight back.

That’s why China does it. That’s why Iran did it.

ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net on 13 Dec 06:53 next collapse

Country Self-Defederation

KnowledgeableNip@sh.itjust.works on 13 Dec 19:40 collapse

Defederation to go with their defenestration.

SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 07:04 next collapse

They’re really into cable cutting these days. Maybe we should help.

IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 07:15 collapse

So we help russia become an IRL echochamber?

iopq@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 07:36 collapse

Imagine how fast the Russian IT grinds to a halt without SO

IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 07:09 next collapse

Lmao is russia gonna be even worse than China? At least China still somewhat have access to foreign websites (emphasis on the “somewhat”).

Edit: Also, aren’t telephones still working? Just call a friend/relative outside of the country to obtain information, or ask someone who has a friend/relative out of the country and ask for information on your behalf.

Have they banned mail yet? Try using mail lol.

They’re gonna need to do a nationwide lockdown to stop all information.

(Funny thing is, no matter how hard China tries, I (I’m in the US) can still call relative in China and tell them all the info that the CCP has hidden from them)

cheese_greater@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 07:15 next collapse

Is that right, you can just like call China, no Great Phone Firewall?

IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 07:25 collapse

Yeah. My parents always calls and talk to my aunts and uncles in China. I mean you can say things like “Xi Jingping is stupid” and nothing would happen, but if you say “So lets kill Xi Jingping” that’d gonna get you in trouble (at least, my relative in China would, I’d be safe in the US).

Basically, the reason is, China still need to conduct trades and bussiness with the world, so they allow some level of freedom to keep people happy, but wechat groups shitting on Xi is gonna mysteriously disband. (people aren’t gonna even gonna get arrested unless you’re the group creator) A one to one conversation isn’t gonna cause a protest unlike internet forums or group chats, that why (at least, why I think) they don’t care about phone calls.

People have a misconception that China is nazi Germany, or East Germany, but its not that bad. (I mean its not “great” but its not “nazi germany”, you get what I’m saying?)

Edit: Although, if something happened and there were to be nationwide protests in China, I’d bet they’ll cut off phone calls and make an excuse like “riotors sabotaged the cell towers” or some BS like that.

Edit 2: Fun fact: Vietnam doesn’t even block Google, the last time I checked. Some youtuber went to Vietnam and Google works somehow.

cheese_greater@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 07:29 next collapse

Are mentions of Winnie the Pooh still forbidden tho?

IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 07:36 collapse

Maybe online.

I mean, its not really like illegal, its more of, every platform would censor comparisons of Xi Jingping and Winnie the Pooh. Just the Winnie the Pooh isn’t even censored, only comparisons to Xi Jingping are censored.

Just don’t bring a poster of the comparison of Xi and Pooh in public and it’s probably fine. You can probably be safe making jokes with friends/family in private spaces, but don’t be criticizing the government in a restaurant, in case people overhear it, especially not criticisms of the central government in Beijing or Xi Jingping.

Sibbo@sopuli.xyz on 13 Dec 07:54 next collapse

What has happened to the Uighurs in China?

IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 08:22 collapse

I don’t know. My relatives in China are like far away from there, so there no information to obtain. Chinese search engines and news sources doesn’t show anything. Basically, information about Tibet and Xinjiang are almost nonexistent in China.

So the only thing I know are from western sources, so I have basically the same amount of information as you have.

I mean its just speculation, but I haven’t seen any evidence of skeletons or like a mass grave (honestly too depressed to do deeper research on this topic, so let me know if you have reputable sources), so my uneducated guess is some sort of mass detention center/prison on anyone suspected of being being a “separatist”, so like US racial profiling against black people in pre- civil rights time period, but instead here its with China and Uigiurs (and other ethnic minorities).

I don’t think its a mass killing, just a mass “re-education” (aka: brainwashing) prison. Hopefully my assumptions are correct, I mean its still terrible, but mass killings would break my heart way more than just “re-educcation”.

But this is all speculation since information is so limited.

OwlPaste@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 08:48 collapse

So I have been in Xinjiang, specifically Urumqi in 2010, about a year after there were local tensions and riots (I didn’t know about the riots until after I returned home). It was summer and I saw police in full riot gear, in APCs in groups of 10-15 at a time patroling the city. Not roadblocks everywhere, but multiple such patrols. I still felt safe (as a westerner, its super safe).

So there were clear, heavy local tensions. Now you are right about the news we here are obviously one sided. You have to take some critical thoughts about what is likely happening. However inter province travel requires you to present passport when buying a ticket. It’s not really a sign of a free and fair society.

I don’t keep up with internal Chinese politics beyond vaguely being interested in HK, but seeing what happened there you can make a fair assumption that in the mainland things would be harder for folks who don’t fall in line.

0x0@programming.dev on 13 Dec 10:07 next collapse

Yeah. My parents always calls and talk to my aunts and uncles in China.

By all means keep doxing for likes, i’m sure they’ll appreciate it. Good for them they’re not targeted specifically (i assume).

IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 10:34 collapse

How’s this doxxing? Theres are more than 5 million Chinese Americans just so you know, many of them has a relative in China. People talk to relative often, this is not some secret. I could be any one of 5 Million people, that’s hardly doxing. There are over 8 Million people in NYC, is it doxing for someone to say they are from NYC? When you talk about millions of people, the idea of “doxxing” doesn’t even make sense.

Also, karma doesn’t exist on Lemmy…

rottingleaf@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 14:02 collapse

People have a misconception that China is nazi Germany, or East Germany, but its not that bad. (I mean its not “great” but its not “nazi germany”, you get what I’m saying?)

This was the tremendous stupidity of Nazi Germany - open violence and cruelty against dissidents (and, of course, Jews and other people deemed fine to murder). Ideologically motivated, but counterproductive. They had that vampire “blood for the blood god” aesthetic, if you look at Nazi-time crests, it can be seen very well too, sort of a Satanist state.

Actually every sane totalitarian regime in existence feels not great, but not Nazi Germany.

mannycalavera@feddit.uk on 13 Dec 07:19 next collapse

Also, aren’t telephones still working? Just call a friend/relative outside of the country to obtain information, or ask someone who has a friend/relative and ask for information on your behalf.

In Putin Russia friend calls you! And by friend I mean your neighbor, and by call you I mean call the police to arrest you because you have dared to ask for information. Straight to the gulag for you!

rottingleaf@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 13:28 collapse

That’s not how it works really. In Putin’s Russia, just like in every similar regime in history, most people talking free-minded stuff or even protesting don’t get punished in any way. But some random ones do get jail sentences with the whole list of convictions. And those sentenced are sometimes not even very keen in their views, that’s what helps the effect. You know that anything you say on political subjects can be used against you, and it will be random and unjust, because a lot of people say the same and don’t get hit with the proverbial brick of Russian law enforcement. So as a result some people talk all they want and some people are afraid of political subjects being even touched upon in their presence.

The former group existing doesn’t really hurt the regime. The latter group existing helps it. And they talk very little to each other on political subjects, which is the most useful result - another category of separation.

The whole point of Putin’s psychological strategy against Russians is in making a lot of categories of separation and reasons for apathy. It doesn’t rely on any beliefs being instilled or any active support being called upon. Just that nobody believes anything or does anything.

That’s optimal for preserving power, and support is replaced with enormous strategic resources, but as we can see, those resources are not enough. Still, I think it’ll be many years till that regime falls like Syrian one just did, and yes, just like in Syria, it may fall not to the most pleasant people.

nucleative@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 09:57 next collapse

The smart ones all know how to use VPNs as well. They know what’s up.

Crazy thing is they only need to control the masses who are mostly uneducated or don’t care enough to figure out what’s going on. Turns out that even the USA has a massive group of the latter type.

0x0@programming.dev on 13 Dec 10:05 collapse

Turns out that even the USA has a massive group of the latter type.

What?! But 'Murica! Land of the Free!

asteriskeverything@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 12:19 next collapse

No offense but this is incredibly short sighted and you’re assuming the average person seeks out new information. We really don’t and are more exposed to it in our daily lives of consumption. In 5, 10, 15 years it will increasingly become a problem being cut off from the outside world. Even now many believe the propaganda

rottingleaf@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 13:18 collapse

It’s not about restricting information. It’s not a problem in Russia really.

It’s about simplifying surveillance, so that in some civil war scenario the Internet connectivity were still there, but only the controlled and monitored kinds of it.

And also it is - it really is - about preserving connectivity if backbone cables going into Russia from abroad get severed or shut down.

I still think all this is about civil war scenarios. Russia’s history in the last 30 years is about its elite preserving itself at the expense of geopolitical power. They are just preparing for another stage.

TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 07:40 next collapse

To the people thinking this means Russia will no longer be able to interfere with other countries over the internet: you are probably mistaken. Disinformation teams will still be connected to the internet. All this will mean is Russians having even less exposure to the world outside of what little Vladolf wants them to see.

It will probably make the European CS2 servers less toxic though.

IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 07:47 next collapse

Less hackers in games?

🤔

Boxscape@lemmy.sdf.org on 13 Dec 08:08 collapse

Less hackers in games?

Half of the people in Jita 4-4 disappear overnight.

<img alt="" src="https://y.yarn.co/0285c6a6-8a10-4fba-a4f3-4e1d56b616a9_text.gif">

Nexz@feddit.nl on 13 Dec 12:38 next collapse

Is this an EVE reference? It’s been at least 10 years since I’ve last played… ah the memories.

Boxscape@lemmy.sdf.org on 13 Dec 13:37 next collapse

Is this an EVE reference?

Yessuh. o7
I haven’t played in a while either, hah.

Serinus@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 16:18 collapse

.
…▄▄ ▄▄
…▀▀▀▀▀███▄███
…▓█ ▀ █████████▄
▓████████▀▀▀▀██
▓█████▀▄▄████▄
▓█▀▀▀▄█▓▓▓▓▓█▀
▒█ ███▓▓▓▓▓█▀…TEST
▒▒██▓▓▓▓▓▓█…ALLIANCE
▄▒▒▓▓▓▓▓▀▄…BEST
…▀▀██░█░█▀…ALLIANCE
…▀░█░▀

verity_kindle@sh.itjust.works on 13 Dec 16:22 collapse

o7

_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 22:17 collapse

there’s never been a bigger hive of scum and villainy

ouch@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 09:31 next collapse

How are we going to get more treasures like “Blending in with the Russians”?

rottingleaf@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 13:08 collapse

It’s not about what Russians can get from the outside, it’s more about what they can get to the outside.

I think the idea is to have some capacity to temporarily preserve some connectivity, while mowing down protesters or something like that.

They are doing such exercises for like 10 years btw.

But when the war in Ukraine stops with some “mission accomplished” ceasefire, there will likely be more violent signs of popular disagreement with Putin. Because, well, people with combat experience will come back. Some of them to ask for money on the streets, some of them to abuse their relatives and neighbors, and some of them to do crime, and some of them probably to stir shit up.

BoobaAwooga@lemmynsfw.com on 13 Dec 07:52 next collapse

Isn’t this more a test of their own internal stability? They’ve made it clear they would disrupt the rest of the worlds communications and if their own systems are self sustaining they would take no hits from their own antics

daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 09:09 next collapse

cs.rin.ru and rutracker ;_;

Also many people from the cracking scene y general.

BlemboTheThird@lemmy.ca on 13 Dec 12:27 collapse

On the one hand, oh no, not the fitgirl repacks!

On the other, I spent an hour last night failing to get my controller to work with her repack of Yakuza kiwami, so maybe it’s for the best…

x00z@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 13:11 collapse

Fitgirl currently lives in Latvia according to her website.

BlemboTheThird@lemmy.ca on 13 Dec 13:14 next collapse

Oh, I just saw she links to cs.rin.ru last night while looking for solutions.

Also, wasn’t being serious anyway

1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 05:49 collapse

I don’t get her method “I had access to a very powerful computer” what did that even mean?

x00z@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 13:30 collapse

I don’t know what you mean.

SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 09:23 next collapse

Wouldn’t it collapse their economy? Like how many Russians are digital sex workers selling content to the rest of the world? And doesn’t a shitton of money flow into Russia via ransomware

Lemminary@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 10:19 next collapse

Shh. Just smile and wave.

rottingleaf@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 13:02 next collapse

Like how many Russians are digital sex workers selling content to the rest of the world?

I think those will move somewhere with Internet connectivity.

caboclo@lemmy.eco.br on 13 Dec 14:26 next collapse

Wow, you are really brainwashed if you think the macro-economy of a country depend on these…

[deleted] on 13 Dec 15:29 next collapse

.

recreationalcatheter@lemm.ee on 13 Dec 22:38 collapse

Why do you sound so scratched?

shalafi@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 17:35 next collapse

No lie. Russia is a petro state above all else.

SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 18:59 collapse

I’m just joking dingus

_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 22:15 next collapse

You know, I somehow very highly doubt the Kremlin cares much about how sex workers might be affected.

JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz on 14 Dec 15:00 collapse

Are there even any payment processors they can use for that? I remember it being an issue when the sanctions hit.

0x0@programming.dev on 13 Dec 10:09 next collapse

I see a lot of comparisons to China’s great wall but i’d wager North Korea is way ahead on that…

rottingleaf@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 13:10 collapse

BTW, I’ve seen an article that China is considering the relaxation of their great firewall.

Something about Chinese citizens being ideologically solid enough. I guess that’s one way to say that now with Palestine and everything else nobody really thinks that the Western world and the free world are synonyms.

x00z@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 13:13 next collapse

ideologically solid enough

They have been manipulated into being some of the biggest racists on the planet.

verity_kindle@sh.itjust.works on 13 Dec 16:25 collapse

Riiiight…we can trust our people to choose Maoism over hot singles in their area.

rottingleaf@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 17:43 collapse

I don’t think Chinese propaganda has anything against hot singles in their area. They have a shrinking population problem now.

AlolanYoda@mander.xyz on 13 Dec 13:00 next collapse

Fuck. Please don’t take down Sci hub… I know there are mirrors elsewhere, should I be worried?

I’m not even going to make the usual joke, by saying sarcastically that I don’t use it and wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. It’s the biggest contributor to scientific progress in the last decade and I’m tired of pretending it’s not

Passerby6497@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 13:01 next collapse

  • Again.

They do this every few years.

friendless@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 13 Dec 19:27 collapse

It is like those “drills” with fighter jets flying close by. Everyone does it occasionally to test reaction time. And every time it is a breaking world news.

bstix@feddit.dk on 13 Dec 20:12 collapse

Nah, it doesn’t always make the news. I know of one time where they flew right over my house and there was no mention of it anywhere, so I tell this story every time anyone mentions those “routine” fly overs.

It was New Year 2019-2020 about noon.

The MIG came in from the Kattegat coast and roared through a fjord well below reasonable eardeafening altitude, which made me go outside to see what the fuck was going on. It got intercepted by one of our own F-16s and they did a few rounds of dog chasing right above my head before it flew like hell back towards Russia. The fucker must’ve dodged the Swedes on the way here.

Way out of line. It’s completely reckless to put some kid into a machine like that and have them fly this close to residential areas. Who knows what would’ve happened and how many people would’ve been hurt if the idiot had hit a tall antenna or lost control from the g-force or whatever. They were flying low, fast and swirling like moth being chased by a flyswatter.

The Russians are reckless assholes even in peace.

friendless@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 13 Dec 21:48 collapse

You should have thrown a rock in to the turbines.

_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 22:14 collapse

Yeah, I bet his throwing arm is strong enough to make it a couple thousand feet in the air.

LavenderDay3544@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 14:21 next collapse

They should grow a pair and actually do it like China has.

john89@lemmy.ca on 13 Dec 15:03 next collapse

Nah. The internet should not be segmented like this.

LavenderDay3544@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 06:17 collapse

They’re the ones choosing to make it that way so fine let them segregate themselves. It’s not like we’re entitled to their participation nor do most of us care either way.

john89@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 17:47 collapse

What about the ones who don’t support this?

sfxrlz@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 15:41 collapse

*northkorea

96VXb9ktTjFnRi@feddit.nl on 13 Dec 15:22 next collapse

Russia tests cutting itself their citizens off from the rest of the internet

The state would certainly continue to interfere with the rest.

PresidentCamacho@lemm.ee on 13 Dec 18:16 next collapse

In the long term is will fuck over their ability to hack stuff. You’re essentially ruining people’s ability to develop talent at tech. Even if u want to train them in it as military, it would be new to them.

Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works on 13 Dec 20:39 collapse

Nah, they’d just do what NK does and pull out the “brightest” and train them in cyber

_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 22:10 collapse

If everybody but the state is blocked, then any connections from Russia would be pretty fucking obviously the state. Honestly, that’s the best thing that could happen, since it would make figuring out what they are doing easy as fuck. But I have no doubt they are smart enough to just send their teams to China or something like North Korea does.

eran_morad@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 15:54 collapse

Belarus is a puppet state of Russia. Route outbound traffic through there to fuck with Western elections, or run a VPN.

Railcar8095@lemm.ee on 13 Dec 16:41 next collapse

Good

Edit: actually not good. Disinformation agencies will still have access, so hexbear and .lm will remain. Only citizens will be punished and will be cut from non-prpaganda sources.

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 13 Dec 18:52 next collapse

Yup, it’s the opposite of good. Russian citizens are getting screwed here.

_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 22:13 next collapse

The majority of the people in those instances are probably not working with the state, they’re just what the Soviet Union used to refer to as “useful idiots”. So they would indeed be blocked if Hexbear and lemmy.ml are hosted in Russia.

considine@lemmy.ml on 14 Dec 12:00 collapse

Putin is openly anti-communist.

Railcar8095@lemm.ee on 14 Dec 12:05 collapse

Agree. If the so called communists of Lemmy understood that we would see much less support for the genocide of Ukrainians.

Mandy@sh.itjust.works on 13 Dec 18:01 next collapse

Yeah I’m sure going full north Korea and cutting of everyone below the government is gonna work well

tal@lemmy.today on 13 Dec 19:46 next collapse

Depends upon how you measure “well”.

The Kim dynasty is still going strong, three generations in. Odds are that the Kims and probably a number of people at the top would be worse-off if things changed. From their perspective, things probably are going pretty well in North Korea.

Of course, the standard of living of the North Korean public is pretty horrendous, the economy is undeveloped, and North Korea doesn’t have a lot of international clout. If your metric is whether the typical person in society is living well or whether the country is powerful, wealthy, or secure, then things aren’t going very well.

nixcamic@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 20:27 next collapse

NK never had Internet. The people never lost anything. Everyone in Russia is online. They might not have toilets, but they have mobile data.

1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 05:39 collapse

Partially right. North Korean citizens didn’t have internet, but there was a internet connection. I think it was on Reddit where someone found the Peering router and was able to get a rough network topology. It’s how red star OS was found out. They also found apple devices connected to the neteork.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 20:57 next collapse

Odds are that the Kims and probably a number of people at the top would be worse-off if things changed.

I mean, when you compare North Korea to the poorer parts of the periphery that capitulated to neoliberal capital - Haiti, Liberia, the former Yugoslavian states, Argentina right now, the Philippines, Lebanon or Iraq or Gaza - even the lay resident is getting out reasonably well off. They aren’t living in an active war zone, they’ve got a backwards but still functional economy, and they’re even making inroads on foreign trade at long last.

The xenophobic siege mentality of the Kims appears to have spared them a far worse fate, just by keeping the country isolated from shit like COVID and The War on Terror. They never got the windfall of the 20th century industrial economy, but they also didn’t get systematically wiped out like American Natives or Black Angolans or Rohingya Muslims.

Simulation6@sopuli.xyz on 14 Dec 11:34 next collapse

The isolation may have delayed the impact of covid, but they were hit hard with it when it did get in. They cut off food imports as part of this effort and people were starving. Kim turned down vaccine offers on a couple of occasions, though they may have gotten the Russian vaccine.

Saryn@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 14:07 collapse

Most of those are some wild comparisons. With all due respect, but the average North Korean “lay resident” is most def not “reasonably well off” compared to their counterpart in most of the places you listed (if that is indeed what you’re claiming). Obviously Gaza is a hellhole right now, but saying that North Koreans are better off than people in Argentina, Croatia, Albania, or even Haiti, is just pure nonsense. And there is no active war zone in the Western Balkans while North and South Korea are still technically at war. The historical comparison to colonized and oppressed peoples also seems arbitrary and illogical.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 14:49 collapse

the average North Korean “lay resident” is most def not “reasonably well off” compared to their counterpart in most of the places you listed

Just the fact that they’ve got basic utilities - electricity, running water, paved roads, public health clinics - puts them head and shoulders above the undeveloped third world.

And there is no active war zone in the Western Balkans while North and South Korea are still technically at war.

Koreans haven’t exchanged fire in over 70 years. Albanian insurgents revolted in Macedonia as recently as 2001. And extremist violence at the border persists to this day

The historical comparison to colonized and oppressed peoples also seems arbitrary and illogical.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre

Only if you aren’t familiar with your history. The crack up of the Korean peninsula follows a deliberate Strategy of Tension that Cold War (and colonial before that) governments employed to suppress large restive populations for centuries.

Saryn@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 15:10 collapse

My dude, what are you even saying.

Of course they have basic utilities in the Balkans. They most definitely have access to the same basic utilities we are used to in the EU and the US. Newsflash - the Western Balkans are no longer part of the “undeveloped third world”. Contrary to what you say, “extremist violence” at the borders between these countries is extremely rare and border crossings are entirely peaceful 99.999% of the time. We can talk about border scuffles between Kosovo and Serbia, or inter-ethnic tensions throughout the region, but even that is nothing compared to the level of militarization and animosity at the 38th parallel.

I should know - I’ve travelled to every single Balkan country this past year, including Kosovo and Montenegro, as part of a border police exchange program, and enjoyed my stay at all of them.

The two Koreas haven’t exhanged fire in over 70 years? Go read the list of border incidents on Wikipedia and tell me again how they haven’t exhanged fire. Just this tear alone there has been artillery shelling in the border zone. For god sake, one country is actively testing nuclear ICBMs over the skies of the other one, and you want to compare that to the Western Balkans?! Ridiculous.

At this point I’m convinced you’ve never travelled to or studied the history and national policies of the countries you’re talking about. In other words - you’re quite obviously talking out of your arse.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 02:56 collapse

Of course they have basic utilities in the Balkans.

They had it in Yugoslavia and then they were demolished in the wars. The modern states are hobbled by debt accrued during the rebuild and still plagued by border violence. There’s no single interstate grid, the highway system is littered with checkpoints and blockades, and the disparate countries have lost their pre-collapse industrial capacity to the bombings of the 90s.

I’ve travelled to every single Balkan country this past year, including Kosovo and Montenegro, as part of a border police exchange program, and enjoyed my stay at all of them.

Then I’m sure you stopped off at Obrovac Aluminum Plant and Obrenovac Thermal Power Plant, critical backbones of the old economy that were never fully repaired, much less reintegrated into the regional economies. Perhaps you had a ride in one of the surviving locally manufactured automobiles, once a common export of the region but now functionally impossible to assemble due to the fractured political landscape?

What were you policing in this now peaceful and bountiful utopia, btw? Crime, I’m sure, is way down from the Tito era, right? And arms smuggling? That’s not a thing anymore, is it?

At this point I’m convinced you’ve never travelled to or studied the history and national policies of the countries you’re talking about

Sure. You played cops and robbers in Kosovo for a few weeks and now you’re an expert. I just spent half a decade at a hedge fund, watching my bosses pick Eastern Europe clean, asset by asset and industry by industry.

You’re so smart, bro. You should write a book about your experiences.

Saryn@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 13:31 collapse

My friend, you are trying to argue that there are no basic utilities in the Balkans in 2024. Some basic research or even just contacting literally anyone who lives there will prove you wrong. It’s so rudimentary and ridiculous - I have no idea how you have the gall to continue arguing something so absurd. Not to mention your ludicrous claim that North Koreans are better off than people in Southeastern Europe.

ridiculous

You’re demonstrably wrong about most everything you claim and anyone can do a quick google search to see for themsevles (including you). Yes, there are interstate grids - you can go see them now if you wanted to. The highway systemS (there is more than one) are not “littered with checkpoints and violence”. You can literally go and see for yourself. And the biggest problems with debt have little to do with the “liberal capital” you mention previously but they do have a lot to do with large-scale Chinese infrastructure projects. And even then, no Balkan country has adebt to GDP ratio of anything close to 100%. Do tell me again about this hedge fund you worked for - did you use numbers?

Any self-respecting expert from the region would call you out for being either delusional or simply trying to push an ideology regardless of facts. You are clearly regurgitating information about countries you’ve never been to and know nothing about. Where you got that information - well frankly, who cares. But it does resemble the propaganda of the old school socialist parties in the region who keep prattling off about how good things were before 1990 and how bad things are now when in fact the vast majority of politco-economic metrics clearly show the opposite is true.

In conclusion: you have no idea what you’re talking about and anyone with an internet connection can confirm that.

Edit: Oh, and about that book. I don’t write books of my personal experiences but I am a co-author of multiple books with comparative analysis in the region alonside other independent experts. Based on a lot of fieldwork. That is how I know you are spouting nonsense.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 13:36 collapse

If you want to claim you’ve been to the Balkans but you refuse to acknowledge the destruction of its largest infrastructure projects, that’s entirely you being ignorant for your own sake.

Saryn@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 13:41 collapse

Nope, you just don’t know the characteristics of the infrastructure you’re talking about. Because if you did you would know a lot of those plants and manufacturing capacity were ineffective and propped up by a authoritarian systems. They were always a lost cause.

I haven’t just been to the Balkans. I’ve lived there. I have work partners from all over the region and we talk everyday of every week about the.political and economic situation of the region.

That is how I know you are not versed in these matters.

And its obvious you are just grasping at straws at this point because you’ve made no attempt to refute my specific claims in the same.manner I refute yours. Because how could you - any basic desk research would clearly demonstrate you are wrong.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 22:37 collapse

If you’re seriously interested in the subject, I think you’d do well to look into the Yugoslavian automotive industry and its subsequent collapse.

Saryn@lemmy.world on 16 Dec 11:05 collapse

Yeah, its too bad Balkan countries stopped producing cars after 1990 due to the sudden and mysterious lack of electricity, water, sewage and waste disposal. Then again, there’s barely any roads or highways in Southeastern Europe to drive them on anyway. And the ones that do exist are barely usable because of the violent radical gangs patrolling them.

But hopefully one day the locals will be better off. Maybe even have basic utilities. Like North Koreans.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 16 Dec 14:47 collapse

Unironically

Saryn@lemmy.world on 16 Dec 16:31 collapse

Of course. Here’s hoping the ongoing war in the Balkans ends soon and peoples in the region can have peaceful relations. You know, like North and South Korea. Or Ukraine and Russia. Or Israel and Palestine.

And if any of this doesn’t make sense, I suggest you look up the history of the Yugoslavian automotive industry before and after the fall of the SFRY. Then it’ll all fall into place. Unless you’re in the Balkans, in which case you wouldn’t be reading this because you don’t have access to the internet. Unironically.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 16 Dec 18:27 collapse

You know, like North and South Korea.

We’ve been tantalizingly close to a break through in North / South tensions. Hopefully, the collapse of the Yoon government means reconciliations can continue.

But one thing you don’t see is terror attacks along the border. That’s critical to a future reconciliation.

Saryn@lemmy.world on 16 Dec 19:43 collapse

No doubt, there is a clear and unmistakable trend toward demilitirazation and reducing nuclear tensions on the Korean Peninsula these past few years.

The real issue is Serbia testing ICBMs and threatening Romania with nuclear warfare. Apparently the secret biological experiments the US has been conducting on Vucic are making him go crazy. Textbook example of a strategy of tension.

Reality truly is stranger than fiction.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 16 Dec 21:01 collapse

The real issue is Serbia testing ICBMs

Ah, yes. The Serbian space program.

Saryn@lemmy.world on 17 Dec 09:49 collapse

They’ll be sending their first satellite into orbit soon. You’d think they’d need basic utilities to do that but no - its all held together by duct tape and wishful thinking.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 17 Dec 17:17 collapse

They’ll be sending their first satellite into orbit soon.

With the help of their neighbors in Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia, and Montenegro, it seems. Amazing what Slavs can do when they’re united, rather than at each others’ throats.

You’d think they’d need basic utilities to do that

Okay, now repeat that in Korean.

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 16:26 collapse

What do you mean, it’s going great. They’re even selling ammunition to Russia and sending troops over to help. From what I heard their shells even explode sometimes.

1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 05:38 collapse

Red Star OS when?

OhFudgeBars@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 18:36 next collapse

Russian Federation? M-more, more like, like… Russian De-Federation, am I right?

recreationalcatheter@lemm.ee on 13 Dec 22:37 collapse

I’m only familiar with the magnificent russian defenestration rate.

It’s as close to 1 as a country can get.

kazerniel@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 19:49 next collapse

I hope rutracker will stay available :P

NineMileTower@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 20:51 next collapse

Then who will post on reddit?

maplebar@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 21:07 next collapse

Good fucking riddance. (No offense cool innocent Russian people.)

RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 21:20 collapse

What makes you think the worst parts won’t still get through or be allowed through…like troll farms or hacking groups?

_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 22:06 collapse

Well if they cut themselves off, then why wouldn’t western nations just finish the job and block all Russian IPs from connecting? Make them travel outside of Russia to set up propaganda machines. Sure, it won’t have much of an effect, but it’ll annoy them, and that’s something.

RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 22:30 collapse

They’d just do the same thing anyone does when the want to obscure their home IP. Just use VPNs, route though sympathetic counties, or other ways to hide who you are. It’d just be a constant game of whack-a-mole. Why do you think we can’t just block people who hack our infrastructure or companies can’t so easily block data thieves? If all it took was blocking a couple addresses or a range it would be easy.

DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 21:29 next collapse

Oh man old-games.ru will be gone from access

So much rare untouched abandonware there

interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml on 13 Dec 21:41 collapse

Any got the backup torrent of russia, all of russia?

Blackmist@feddit.uk on 13 Dec 21:39 next collapse

Be good practice for when the rest of the world cuts them off for real.

LovableSidekick@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 21:43 next collapse

Could they just stay that way?

Sam_Bass@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 21:49 next collapse

Yeah that works real well for NK

Gammelfisch@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 21:55 next collapse

Gladly, no more fucking Putin Bots.

MehBlah@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 22:16 next collapse

I’m sure they will still be around.

disconnectikacio@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 22:37 next collapse

Their bots will access the net

capital@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 03:37 next collapse

Are you really that naive?

1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 05:37 next collapse

You know ips can be filtered to still have access right?

Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 14 Dec 08:10 next collapse

To all the people downvoting this, look at this comment lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/15369807

@1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca @capital@lemmy.world @disconnectikacio@lemmy.world @MehBlah@lemmy.world

MehBlah@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 14:09 next collapse

You make a lot of assumptions about who down voted what.

Here is a hint. You are the first person I down voted in this thread.

capital@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 14:33 collapse

If that were true, it should be easy to block all the crypto attacks coming from Russia, right?

Even now, hospitals (for example) could just whitelist their own country IPs, block Russian ones, and bam! No more Russian crypto ransom attacks right?

Wait, why haven’t they just done that already? Could it be that IT teams are already taking this precaution but attackers, especially ones with state funding, can route their traffic through IPs not attributed to Russia?

Again, are you that naive?

Fizz@lemmy.nz on 14 Dec 10:35 collapse

Unfortunately the bots are state sponsored so they will be allowed to bypass this.

_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Dec 22:05 next collapse

Wait, so just like that, we’re gonna lose access to lemmy.ml and hexbear? Oh no! Woe, woe unto us! How will we survive this?

AuroraB@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 13 Dec 22:28 next collapse

As a queer person in a place currently under russian control, I find a lot of the comments in favour of the censorship problematic. Being gay in public is illegal here, so a lot of our queer people find communities on the Internet. Being cut off from those would be terrible.

Anti_Iridium@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 22:30 next collapse

Plus, there are things in Russia that I want. Like Starsector

NOT_RICK@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 02:22 next collapse

Sorry you’ve been saddled with that, friend. I hope things get better in Russia (or Ukraine, Transnistria, or Georgia, think that covers all the places they occupy) in your lifetime

AuroraB@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 14 Dec 07:45 collapse

I hope I’ll escape before it collapses, otherwise life will be unnecessarily difficult for a decade or two

1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 05:36 next collapse

I got your 6.

Agent641@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 08:19 collapse

Oh I bet you do… 😉

[deleted] on 14 Dec 13:36 collapse

.

Skates@feddit.nl on 13 Dec 22:29 next collapse

And nothing of value was lost.

SplashJackson@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 03:26 next collapse

Lol peace suckas

Etterra@discuss.online on 14 Dec 08:56 next collapse

So turning it into an intranet.

Fizz@lemmy.nz on 14 Dec 10:43 next collapse

This sucks, I’ve met so many very cool and interesting Russian people. The internet is meant to connect people not box them in an echo chamber.

Skullgrid@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 13:35 collapse

yeah, you met two cool russian people. Millions of older family members are being bombarded with propaganda from the rest of the russians that are less cool.

OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml on 14 Dec 21:30 next collapse

And disconnecting these people from the internet will help them how… exactly? Oh right you don’t care about them because they have different beliefs.

Skullgrid@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 22:42 collapse

Oh right you don’t care about them because they have different beliefs.

Who are the “they” here?

EDIT : What are “their” beliefs?

Fizz@lemmy.nz on 15 Dec 08:01 collapse

That’s the Russian government. The Russian government will not cease cyber attacks. This is only to stop citizens being able to find information.

The amount Russians working in troll farms is nothing compared with the amount of good hearted decent Russian people and I’m saying this as a massive Ukraine war simp.

Cyberjin@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 12:01 next collapse

Big lan party But I’m sure there will be outside content somehow

el_eh_chase@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 14 Dec 20:26 collapse

Someone will be smuggling microfiche behind the iron curtain…wait wrong century.

yournamehere@lemm.ee on 14 Dec 12:30 next collapse

Xis puppet is learning another trick from its master

kjenney@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 14:35 next collapse

Yeah - and I’m Dolly Parton. Everything that Russian press puts out is lies. There are only two reasons why Russia isn’t an abandoned strip mall: Oil and the Internet.

ICastFist@programming.dev on 14 Dec 18:30 next collapse

The worst (to me, anyway) part is that a LOT of pirate stuff will disappear if the russian internet gets gated

CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 20:10 next collapse

Usenet still exists.

ICastFist@programming.dev on 14 Dec 21:54 next collapse

Gotta pay for access to any worthwhile server

CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 00:00 collapse

True, but it’s super cheap. I pay less for a year of Usenet and indexer than I’d pay for 2 months of basic cable or just about any streaming service.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 21:58 collapse

Any good starting point or worthwhile server that can be recommended? I don’t mind paying, I’m paying more for the arr than for any of the subscriptions, I just dont want to have to deal with the media company bullshit anymore

CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 23:58 collapse

I have been using Frugal and nzbGeek for years and have no complaints.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 21:57 collapse

Meh, loads of other places

gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de on 14 Dec 19:44 next collapse

tbf the internet is going to consist mostly of 3 things in the future:

  • propaganda
  • scientific information
  • funny cat videos

So I guess it’s not really a surprise that this is happening.

Lightsong@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 20:31 next collapse

I was gonna say you forgot porno but then

scientific information

gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de on 14 Dec 20:54 collapse

funny “cat” videos

cat as in pussy

[deleted] on 14 Dec 21:42 collapse

.

monotremata@lemmy.ca on 14 Dec 21:59 next collapse

Tell me you use an ad blocker without telling me.

[deleted] on 14 Dec 22:22 collapse

.

interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml on 14 Dec 22:04 collapse

You mean the clearnet and you put advertising under propaganda, which is fair, but advertising I feel is a distinctly heinous thing we could hate all on its own!

Siegfried@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 22:26 next collapse

It will be a dark day for piracy…

Luckily, libgen and sci hub are not based there

murmelade@lemmy.ml on 14 Dec 22:32 next collapse

Noooo! My sports streams!

tupalos@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 22:42 collapse

This is a sad day

tupalos@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 22:42 next collapse

That’s where all the best illegal movies come from!

unrushed233@lemmings.world on 14 Dec 22:58 next collapse

The Splinternet | This Is How The Internet Dies

Rin@lemm.ee on 14 Dec 23:04 next collapse

Finally, I’ll have decent teammates in Countrstrike 2.

ovalofsand@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 01:09 collapse

I have a suspicion that they have a virus that they want to spread and protect themselves from