(Yes Lync too, but everyone was pleased about that)
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
on 05 May 20:52
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What most people don’t know about the ouroboros is that every time the creature eats itself it becomes a little bit closer to being a turd (a consequence of its peculiar metabolism) so even though from an inside perspective the system appears to be in a complex mysterious cyclic kind of stasis, from the outside it is just more and more obviously a turd in the shape of a donut.
I am not sure I remember anymore, I have eaten my tail one too many times.
I don’t think this is a direct meaning of the metaphor, though any metaphor of endlessly repeating cycles can be placed in a rhetorical framework where it represents enshittification so I am sure I am not the first person to add or tweak the metaphor with that context.
TwinTitans@lemmy.world
on 05 May 20:55
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And MSN was so much better.
Spider2013@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 May 05:34
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By “coexist” we mean being installed side by side with barely distinguishable icons, and when you try to log into the wrong one with the wrong type of Microsoft account (where the login mask looks exactly the same), it throws a helpful error message saying “this account does not exist”.
MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub
on 05 May 21:54
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Teams dying doesn’t sound too bad either. Just hoping the next iteration isn’t even worse
lupusblackfur@lemmy.world
on 05 May 23:05
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Given M$'s track record, it definitely will be worse…
Next iteration will be “Copilot for Teams”.
Whenever you get a message, Copilot will auto-send an answer unless you click “no” in a popup without window decorations, showing a timer.
On Windows Pro, you can disable this with a registry key, but that resets with feature updates.
MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub
on 06 May 15:47
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You know, if copilot also joins morning meetings for you while you sleep, that’s a deal I’m willing to make
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de
on 06 May 16:29
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How long until it degenerates to a bunch of Copilots exchanging gibberish, and people forgetting there was ever a real meeting? :D
MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub
on 06 May 17:51
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microsoft pissed away all the brand recognition it ever had and turned it into teams. in 2020 it was poised to be the most important technology there was, but having received no updates in years, it was effectively already dead
they could have kept the skype name on the ‘consumer’ product, even if underneath it was the same piece of shit teams, just with ‘enterprise’ features hidden.
A new convo instance every time I messaged the same person after a few hours of not, taking upwards of 10 minutes to sync convos between my laptop and my phone if it did at all, and the shittiest voice/video functions ever? Glad that shit died, teams seems amazing in comparison.
cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de
on 05 May 22:07
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Skype was only good while it still had a native Linux version.
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de
on 06 May 16:31
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And as a follow up, Teams was never good because it was never native to anything (instead it was Electron and is now some sort of React/Edge homebrew).
I find it funny Microsoft gave me a survey on my work PC asking about how I’m enjoying its products (I laughed in Linux, “how do you like windows customizablity” let me go off about KDE lol)
But back to the subject. Literally everything they work on seems to turn to shit — I wonder what kind of survey feedback are they usually getting? “Oh, Skypes cool but I really like Teams”
Literally everything they work on seems to turn to shit
Not the MS Office though.
farcaster@lemmy.world
on 05 May 22:35
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I never really used Skype as a VOIP platform, but it was a great tool for many years for calling international phone numbers affordably. I’m sure it helped many people saving a lot of money calling their friends and relatives. For that I remember it somewhat fondly.
lupusblackfur@lemmy.world
on 05 May 23:04
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And nothing of continued/existing value was lost… 🤷♂️ 🙄
Tuxman@sh.itjust.works
on 05 May 23:22
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It’s sad… Skype saved my butt when I was stuck in Peru and needed to call for help in my home country. I had found out 1-800 lines didn’t use call credits
M154nthr0p3@lemmy.world
on 05 May 23:35
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TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee
on 05 May 23:42
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Still find it absolutely wild that Microsoft fucked up during the global pandemic and allowed Zoom to slide right into the communications spot Skype should have been.
Hey, RIM/Blackberry’s CEO went to mobile world Congress in 2010, 3 solid YEARS after the iPhone launched, was dominating and defining the smartphone world and said, “we feel touchscreen is not the future of mobile phones” and rolled out another hybrid touch/keyboard model like the 5 they already had
Blackberry was $150/share as of 2009 with the entire world in front of it. It’s now worth $3.59/share.
And then, to bring us full circle to OP, Microsoft made it’s strategic acquisition of Nokia long after they had squandered enviable market share to Apple and Google 😂 theverge.com/…/microsoft-nokia-acquisition-costs
While also completely missing the boat on the potential of graphics cards and watching Nvidia and even AMD become massively more relevant in recent years.
Try searching for something that was said in a chat last month.
Then follow what was said in reply.
Now as an admin, try to delete an image someone has shared with the team.
Or control who can create new teams.
But my biggest pet peeve, which annoys me literally every day, is how it shows a notification for a new message in your task bar.
You click on it, Teams opens how you left it, and you read the message.
But the notification stays. To get rid of it, you have to click on a different chat, then back on the one where the message was posted.
Let me introduce you to discord. You get a notification for a message but there’s no way to find it. You keep clicking the notification and it won’t actually scroll up to the message to let you read it
I never said it wasn’t dogshit, but Microsoft did win the corporate messenger race
InvertedParallax@lemm.ee
on 06 May 00:43
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Microsoft has 1 massive disadvantage when it tries to enter new markets.
It has to deal with brutal cutthroat competition from its worst enemy: Microsoft.
Ms internal politics destroy almost all its successes, their politics are why theyve never really been a threat, for every skype there’s a teams which cuts them off at the knees lest it cost a division head their chance at a promotion.
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 May 01:50
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I personally blame stack ranking, invented by Jack Welch to justify cutting 20% of the company.
I heard about that, some call it the “wasted decade” at MS. Top engineers refused to work together due to the stack ranking, not wanting draw the short end of the stick in the evaluations, when compared to each other.
A company I worked at 10 years ago also dabbled with it a bit, luckily not seriously. It was a consultancy firm who hired top graduates from prestige universities, so it made even less sense. Dude, nobody is average or below here, you hire the best people after grilling them in interviews and a whole day assessment center. The bell curve just doesn’t make sense
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 06 May 09:50
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My company does it and it’s fucking stressful. And just like you said, it doesn’t make a ton of sense.
Occasionally there are certainly people who are just there to ride coat tails but I see this behavior more in leadership than in the front lines.
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world
on 06 May 01:42
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IMHO, the pandemic just allowed everyone to see how much better of an experience Zoom had over Skype.
I worked in an office where half of corporate used Skype, and the cooler sub-brands used Zoom. No one in the main corporate office was happy about using Skype. Microsoft had been neglecting it for quite some time.
Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org
on 06 May 04:11
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Microsoft had been neglecting it for quite some time.
Yeah, right before the pandemic it was becoming clear that Skype was in Keep The Lights On mode, and MS wanted to funnel all of those users into Teams. But Teams also sucked.
It’s a lot better than it used to be, but it still takes MS an ungodly amount of time to build basic features that have been in Slack / Zoom for a decade… and MS is one of the biggest companies in the world.
I couldn’t get my head round this at all. Everyone used Skype where I worked, and it seemed hugely popular. By the time COVID happened, I was in another job, and all of a sudden everyone was going mad about this Zoom program. I’d never heard of it, but it just came out of nowhere and everyone on the planet was using it. How on earth Skype fumbled it so hard is absolutely staggering.
Skype didn’t fumble it, Microsoft just doesn’t know how to strategy. When they bought Skype, they killed MSN and told people to move to Skype, whereas they should’ve integrated the two to make the transition seamless. Then they had both Teams and Skype for Business at the same time by the time COVID happened.
Did they really? Microsoft championed Teams and its pretty accepted in corporate environments today, especially if they are already on Microsoft.
Afaik, Skype for Business was merged into Teams. Skype for non-business consumers has been virtually dead for longer. The way I see it, Microsoft let go of the brand, the value of which is questionable in this decade. When they bought it, I remember the rumors saying it was because of its voice codec, which probably got used in everything from xbox live to teams in the end.
Nobody uses Teams voluntarily. It’s always imposed by corporate.
Skype was the term for skyping. It’s like buying a social media that coined the term tweet and changing it’s name to a letter. Stupidest shit ever.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
on 06 May 00:56
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great, now do teams.
nobody should have to use that ugly useless piece of shit for anything.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com
on 06 May 01:20
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My company decided we don’t need phones and makes us use Teams for calls. Every day I think about murdering the person who made that decision.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
on 06 May 01:28
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Same here. I made my bed with it though.
I have a “work phone”. it sits at my desk. I’ll answer it when I’m there, otherwise I don’t get called.
I can’t (pronounced won’t) install any work shit on my personal phone because I run e/os and it isn’t compatible with their policies. 🤷 oopsies.
fuck em. I’ve been giving them 4 hours a day for months now, after giving them over a decade of 15-18 hour days.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone
on 06 May 05:44
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My company used to have Slack and forced this abomination upon us. At least now I can plausibly pretend not to have seen people’s messages.
MSN Messenger was brilliant. At the time I used it, everyone I knew used it. It was the go-to for communication.
UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world
on 06 May 09:52
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I actually had a Skype phone back in the days
fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com
on 06 May 10:52
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For us plebs. Government (US) will still use it for years to come.
hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org
on 06 May 15:04
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I think Teams has already taken over there as well.
shadejinx@lemmy.world
on 06 May 11:22
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Who?
mechoman444@lemmy.world
on 06 May 11:57
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I’m 39. So I’ve been around Skype since it came out back in 2003. Since then, 22 years later I didn’t use it a single time. Never downloaded the program, app or accessed the webpage. 🤷
I used Skype a couple of times - I was talking to someone overseas. This was pre zoom. It’s interesting that they dropped the ball, they could have been zoom.
VisionScout@lemmy.wtf
on 06 May 16:02
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skype was way ahead of his time. The quality was top notch. MS fucked by changing the architecture from decentralized to centralized in windows servers - this fucked up the calls quality and it created an opportunity window for whatsapp, viber, etc…
MS turned skype to shit.
some_random_nick@lemmy.world
on 06 May 18:45
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I’ll never get over MSN Messenger
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de
on 06 May 16:23
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Skype for Business LTSC 2024 is still supported until 2029. You just need to already be running an On-Prem Skype for Business Server and migrate it to the new Subscription Edition come October. I bet it will get really costly for the holdouts.
Bytemeister@lemmy.world
on 06 May 16:37
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I remember the “old” Skype, which was essential for keeping in touch with my siblings before we got cell phones. Once I got a phone, it was the end of Skype until ~2014 when I got a job where Skype for business was available. I still didn’t use it because that application would sometimes crash if you just jiggled the mouse. It because a running joke at my workplace.
Clock into work, Skype crashed.
Go to lunch, Skype crashed.
Ran out of TP at home. You guessed it. Skype crashed.
threaded - newest
Rip to a real one
MSN messenger died for Skype
Skype died for Teams
We’re not on a great trajectory here
(Yes Lync too, but everyone was pleased about that)
What most people don’t know about the ouroboros is that every time the creature eats itself it becomes a little bit closer to being a turd (a consequence of its peculiar metabolism) so even though from an inside perspective the system appears to be in a complex mysterious cyclic kind of stasis, from the outside it is just more and more obviously a turd in the shape of a donut.
<img alt="" src="https://sopuli.xyz/pictrs/image/57a3e31b-481b-406d-8ce3-9ba5f2c70317.webp">
Is this real lore or is this meme
I am not sure I remember anymore, I have eaten my tail one too many times.
I don’t think this is a direct meaning of the metaphor, though any metaphor of endlessly repeating cycles can be placed in a rhetorical framework where it represents enshittification so I am sure I am not the first person to add or tweak the metaphor with that context.
And MSN was so much better.
Can imagine your boss nudging you? Lol
I don’t want to.
Teams will die for Copilot somehow.
You missed Teams 365
365 will be dead soon enough. Long Live Office Copilot
They can all coexist in your desktop, just like outlook
By “coexist” we mean being installed side by side with barely distinguishable icons, and when you try to log into the wrong one with the wrong type of Microsoft account (where the login mask looks exactly the same), it throws a helpful error message saying “this account does not exist”.
Teams dying doesn’t sound too bad either. Just hoping the next iteration isn’t even worse
Given M$'s track record, it definitely will be worse…
<img alt="Making it worse?How could it be worse?Jehovah!" src="https://vlipsy.com/vlip/9BHD30Rf">
Next iteration will be MSN Messenger
Next iteration will be “Copilot for Teams”.
Whenever you get a message, Copilot will auto-send an answer unless you click “no” in a popup without window decorations, showing a timer.
On Windows Pro, you can disable this with a registry key, but that resets with feature updates.
You know, if copilot also joins morning meetings for you while you sleep, that’s a deal I’m willing to make
How long until it degenerates to a bunch of Copilots exchanging gibberish, and people forgetting there was ever a real meeting? :D
Seems like the natural progression of things
Teams died for Teams (New)
Did it die, though? Last time I had to use windows for work (shudder) the Teams app process name was lync.exe. Or was it Skype?
Either way, shit’s still around.
Huh?
I thought Skype was still a widely used thing.
Well; not any more. That’s for sure.
Was.
I haven’t heard of anyone using Skype in over a decade.
microsoft pissed away all the brand recognition it ever had and turned it into teams. in 2020 it was poised to be the most important technology there was, but having received no updates in years, it was effectively already dead
Is Microsoft planning to release a viable replacement at some point?
Teams is their replacement, viable or not
Teams helps cooperation by uniting everyone in their shared hatred for Teams.
Teams(s)
— Frank Frankfort Moore
they could have kept the skype name on the ‘consumer’ product, even if underneath it was the same piece of shit teams, just with ‘enterprise’ features hidden.
On one hand, having been forced to use Skype, I’m happy to see it gone. On the other hand, they somehow made it worse and called it Teams.
Please don’t confuse skype4biz and Skype. The former only borrows the name, and shares a lot of code with teams, Lync and probably netmeeting.
The latter will be missed.
Communicator should be in there somewhere, too
Skype for business was truly awful.
A new convo instance every time I messaged the same person after a few hours of not, taking upwards of 10 minutes to sync convos between my laptop and my phone if it did at all, and the shittiest voice/video functions ever? Glad that shit died, teams seems amazing in comparison.
It was dead to me after microsoft bought it.
It really went downhill from them on.
Skype was only good while it still had a native Linux version.
And as a follow up, Teams was never good because it was never native to anything (instead it was Electron and is now some sort of React/Edge homebrew).
I find it funny Microsoft gave me a survey on my work PC asking about how I’m enjoying its products (I laughed in Linux, “how do you like windows customizablity” let me go off about KDE lol)
But back to the subject. Literally everything they work on seems to turn to shit — I wonder what kind of survey feedback are they usually getting? “Oh, Skypes cool but I really like Teams”
Not the MS Office though.
I never really used Skype as a VOIP platform, but it was a great tool for many years for calling international phone numbers affordably. I’m sure it helped many people saving a lot of money calling their friends and relatives. For that I remember it somewhat fondly.
And nothing of continued/existing value was lost… 🤷♂️ 🙄
It’s sad… Skype saved my butt when I was stuck in Peru and needed to call for help in my home country. I had found out 1-800 lines didn’t use call credits
archive.ph/lXBd1
Archive
Still find it absolutely wild that Microsoft fucked up during the global pandemic and allowed Zoom to slide right into the communications spot Skype should have been.
Fucking idiots.
Hey, RIM/Blackberry’s CEO went to mobile world Congress in 2010, 3 solid YEARS after the iPhone launched, was dominating and defining the smartphone world and said, “we feel touchscreen is not the future of mobile phones” and rolled out another hybrid touch/keyboard model like the 5 they already had
Blackberry was $150/share as of 2009 with the entire world in front of it. It’s now worth $3.59/share.
to be fair i miss physical keyboards on phones. i wish we still had space for it.
Same. Colossal pain in the ass.
Get yourself a RIMjob and help bring them back
You could get a Bluetooth keyboard. Literally pick your size.
You have to charge it separately, it’s not quite as convenient
They’re a cyber security firm now. Wild stuff.
Netflix tried to get distribution in Blockbuster and a partnership w/them and were told to fuck off …
Blackberry and Nokia were so slow to react to the iPhone, it was painful to watch.
And then, to bring us full circle to OP, Microsoft made it’s strategic acquisition of Nokia long after they had squandered enviable market share to Apple and Google 😂 theverge.com/…/microsoft-nokia-acquisition-costs
Their stuff was better, but disadvantaged by public perception. A perfect storm one can say.
I think he felt right, but at the same time Blackberry wasn’t properly marketed.
And maybe having a touchscreen option would be good enough.
Intel thought the iPhone market was going to be too small so they didn’t agree to manufacture their CPUs
While also completely missing the boat on the potential of graphics cards and watching Nvidia and even AMD become massively more relevant in recent years.
MS Teams did become the standard in a lot of places now
I have to use Teams for work and it is absolute dog shit.
Why? My experience is the opposite.
Try searching for something that was said in a chat last month.
Then follow what was said in reply.
Now as an admin, try to delete an image someone has shared with the team.
Or control who can create new teams.
But my biggest pet peeve, which annoys me literally every day, is how it shows a notification for a new message in your task bar.
You click on it, Teams opens how you left it, and you read the message.
But the notification stays. To get rid of it, you have to click on a different chat, then back on the one where the message was posted.
I agree, those ARE annoying things. But overall functionality is pretty solid IMO.
I just don’t understand how an app that’s primarily a chat can fail at notifications and searching through the chat log.
Let me introduce you to discord. You get a notification for a message but there’s no way to find it. You keep clicking the notification and it won’t actually scroll up to the message to let you read it
I never said it wasn’t dogshit, but Microsoft did win the corporate messenger race
Microsoft has 1 massive disadvantage when it tries to enter new markets.
It has to deal with brutal cutthroat competition from its worst enemy: Microsoft.
Ms internal politics destroy almost all its successes, their politics are why theyve never really been a threat, for every skype there’s a teams which cuts them off at the knees lest it cost a division head their chance at a promotion.
I personally blame stack ranking, invented by Jack Welch to justify cutting 20% of the company.
If you want to get mad, the Behind the Bastards episode on him explains why corporate America is what it is today.
I heard about that, some call it the “wasted decade” at MS. Top engineers refused to work together due to the stack ranking, not wanting draw the short end of the stick in the evaluations, when compared to each other.
A company I worked at 10 years ago also dabbled with it a bit, luckily not seriously. It was a consultancy firm who hired top graduates from prestige universities, so it made even less sense. Dude, nobody is average or below here, you hire the best people after grilling them in interviews and a whole day assessment center. The bell curve just doesn’t make sense
My company does it and it’s fucking stressful. And just like you said, it doesn’t make a ton of sense.
Occasionally there are certainly people who are just there to ride coat tails but I see this behavior more in leadership than in the front lines.
IMHO, the pandemic just allowed everyone to see how much better of an experience Zoom had over Skype.
I worked in an office where half of corporate used Skype, and the cooler sub-brands used Zoom. No one in the main corporate office was happy about using Skype. Microsoft had been neglecting it for quite some time.
You’re right but that’s why they’re idiots 😄
Yeah, right before the pandemic it was becoming clear that Skype was in Keep The Lights On mode, and MS wanted to funnel all of those users into Teams. But Teams also sucked.
It’s a lot better than it used to be, but it still takes MS an ungodly amount of time to build basic features that have been in Slack / Zoom for a decade… and MS is one of the biggest companies in the world.
I hate Zoom
I couldn’t get my head round this at all. Everyone used Skype where I worked, and it seemed hugely popular. By the time COVID happened, I was in another job, and all of a sudden everyone was going mad about this Zoom program. I’d never heard of it, but it just came out of nowhere and everyone on the planet was using it. How on earth Skype fumbled it so hard is absolutely staggering.
Skype didn’t fumble it, Microsoft just doesn’t know how to strategy. When they bought Skype, they killed MSN and told people to move to Skype, whereas they should’ve integrated the two to make the transition seamless. Then they had both Teams and Skype for Business at the same time by the time COVID happened.
They messed up on every turn.
Did they really? Microsoft championed Teams and its pretty accepted in corporate environments today, especially if they are already on Microsoft.
Afaik, Skype for Business was merged into Teams. Skype for non-business consumers has been virtually dead for longer. The way I see it, Microsoft let go of the brand, the value of which is questionable in this decade. When they bought it, I remember the rumors saying it was because of its voice codec, which probably got used in everything from xbox live to teams in the end.
Nobody uses Teams voluntarily. It’s always imposed by corporate.
Skype was the term for skyping. It’s like buying a social media that coined the term tweet and changing it’s name to a letter. Stupidest shit ever.
great, now do teams.
nobody should have to use that ugly useless piece of shit for anything.
My company decided we don’t need phones and makes us use Teams for calls. Every day I think about murdering the person who made that decision.
Same here. I made my bed with it though.
I have a “work phone”. it sits at my desk. I’ll answer it when I’m there, otherwise I don’t get called.
I can’t (pronounced won’t) install any work shit on my personal phone because I run e/os and it isn’t compatible with their policies. 🤷 oopsies.
fuck em. I’ve been giving them 4 hours a day for months now, after giving them over a decade of 15-18 hour days.
My company used to have Slack and forced this abomination upon us. At least now I can plausibly pretend not to have seen people’s messages.
Nobody noticed
Can I guess that the American amoral capitalist company won’t have transferred my Skype credit?
I had like $9.22 remaining credit from some international calls back in 2002 I was going to use…eventually.
Somebody send a gift basket to the Skype CEO, he’s not doing so well.
I see Brennan, I upvote. Love the guy, his DnD campaigns are a blast!
I fell out of contact with a lot of people when they shuttered MSN messenger for Skype, so not sad to see it go.
MSN Messenger was brilliant. At the time I used it, everyone I knew used it. It was the go-to for communication.
I actually had a Skype phone back in the days
For us plebs. Government (US) will still use it for years to come.
I think Teams has already taken over there as well.
Who?
I’m 39. So I’ve been around Skype since it came out back in 2003. Since then, 22 years later I didn’t use it a single time. Never downloaded the program, app or accessed the webpage. 🤷
I used Skype a couple of times - I was talking to someone overseas. This was pre zoom. It’s interesting that they dropped the ball, they could have been zoom.
Skype you later!
Wait, Skype was still around? I thought it shutdown a few years back
Scream test.
Mandela effect in full bloom
IMO Skype to this day has the best emojis.
skype was way ahead of his time. The quality was top notch. MS fucked by changing the architecture from decentralized to centralized in windows servers - this fucked up the calls quality and it created an opportunity window for whatsapp, viber, etc…
MS turned skype to shit.
I’ll never get over MSN Messenger
Skype for Business LTSC 2024 is still supported until 2029. You just need to already be running an On-Prem Skype for Business Server and migrate it to the new Subscription Edition come October. I bet it will get really costly for the holdouts.
I remember the “old” Skype, which was essential for keeping in touch with my siblings before we got cell phones. Once I got a phone, it was the end of Skype until ~2014 when I got a job where Skype for business was available. I still didn’t use it because that application would sometimes crash if you just jiggled the mouse. It because a running joke at my workplace.
Clock into work, Skype crashed.
Go to lunch, Skype crashed.
Ran out of TP at home. You guessed it. Skype crashed.
Still working as of 4 hours ago, saw my friend using it, might be business version though.