Unless users take action, Android will let Gemini access third-party apps (arstechnica.com)
from return2ozma@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 07 Jul 23:48
https://lemmy.world/post/32631394

#technology

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cheese_greater@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 00:03 next collapse

Doesnt Apple also do this with Siri and basically every app unless the user untoggles it?

galoisghost@aussie.zone on 08 Jul 00:24 next collapse

Yes and you have to untoggle it for each and every app individually

timewarp@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 03:11 next collapse

Yes, for the amount of hate Google gets… Which I think it is fair to be critical of any product that compromises privacy… I recently tried helping my mom clean up her iPhone, and seriously like 100x worse. Almost everything you do on Apple demands you have another Apple device. One of the worst experiences I’ve ever dealt with.

ifItWasUpToMe@lemmy.ca on 08 Jul 04:09 next collapse

Kinda sounds like you just don’t know how to use an iPhone.

timewarp@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 05:17 collapse

Absolutely not the case… I sense a bad case of Stockholm syndrome.

ifItWasUpToMe@lemmy.ca on 08 Jul 06:35 collapse

Because i think cleaning up an iPhone is easy?

pycorax@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jul 10:49 collapse

Isn’t there some form of sampling bias here though? The kind of people who generally would care about these things likely also care about interoperability and would be on Android. I wouldn’t be surprised if iPhone users simply don’t care if Apple demands them to do anything.

ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 09:29 collapse

Except Apple has better marketing, and is primarily marketed for those who’re excited for every tech “innovation”.

ChickenAndRice@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jul 00:10 next collapse

Laughs in Graphene

Balaquina@lemmy.ca on 08 Jul 00:13 next collapse

Not a day goes by that I don’t regret installing that on my phone.

BallShapedMan@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 00:19 next collapse

Why? Curious.

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 00:47 collapse

What I’m curious is what kind of ball are you shaped like?

A golf ball? With divots all over your skin? A basketball? Just round? A baseball? With stitches all over your skin like later years Chucky? A football? Are you Stewie Griffen? Testicles? Wait, are you saying your whole body is one big testicle? Oh my god, the Iron Shiek wasn’t speaking broken english! He was just talking about you!!! “I hit him right in the ball this big!”

BallShapedMan@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 01:45 collapse

Lol! ❤️ run on rants.

And I used to be quite overweight with a large gut. My kids used to say I was 19 months pregnant. The weight is gone but I kept the name.

GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip on 08 Jul 00:20 next collapse

So you regret it every day? GOS is amazing in my opinion. What’s your gripe with it?

[deleted] on 08 Jul 00:49 next collapse

.

Balaquina@lemmy.ca on 08 Jul 00:51 collapse

Double negatives are hard. I love Graphene.

GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip on 08 Jul 11:40 collapse

I mean, the way I read it is “not a day goes by on which I am not regretting doing this”. So, every day you are regretting it 🤔

pool_spray_098@lemmy.world on 09 Jul 10:47 collapse

For real, I was puzzled. Like damn, this dude absolutely hates Graphene! I wonder why…

towerful@programming.dev on 08 Jul 01:29 next collapse

This… Except for contactless payment.
I used graphene for a month. It was lovely. Even things like banking apps worked.
I don’t care about absolute privacy, but I do care about controlling my privacy. Grapheme gave me that.

I had only 1 issue.
Contactless payment.
It’s extremely convenient to me, from public transport to groceries. I just bop my phone.

The fact that Google has that locked down surely violates some EU laws. But I’m sure they wave away the laws because of “financial security” or some other bullshit.
As if bank card NFC/contactless doesn’t suffer exactly the same issues.
I looked into some “graphene contactless payment” type systems or workarounds, and I couldn’t find anything that would fill the gap.

orclev@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 01:49 next collapse

That is literally the only thing keeping me from installing Graphene on my phone.

tux7350@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 02:05 next collapse

I use a smart watch for contact less payments ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 08 Jul 03:55 collapse

i just use a debit card lol

Jonas@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 Jul 02:31 next collapse

Try Curve Pay. Just learned about it yesterday. I added my credit card and it just works. Couldn’t be happier.

orclev@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 06:05 next collapse

Looks awesome, but unfortunately seems to only be for the UK and EU. I wish the US market would get something similar.

towerful@programming.dev on 08 Jul 07:34 next collapse

I’m always nervous about fintech companies. Maybe it’s time to get over that and give curve pay a spin.
The cashback seems nice, considering a lot of shops I use are on there.

funkycarrot@discuss.tchncs.de on 08 Jul 18:27 next collapse

Unfortunately the reviews on Trustpilot and posts on Reddit make it painfully obvious that their customer service is basically nonexistent. Combined with the typical random account-closing most fintechs are known for, this is not a reliable option.

Looking at this comparison, iCard might be an option if you desperately need a way to use NFC payments on your phone. Reviews are good, but it appears to be a prepaid system. Lots of fees to get lost in, too.

But old school might be just fine, too. I just realized my card does fit into my phone case!

Pirate@feddit.org on 09 Jul 10:06 collapse

Do you trust them? The Curve sub is full of people complaining about fraudulent transactions. Kinda makes me afraid of unlocking my card lol.

khannie@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 06:20 next collapse

This may seem like a silly solution but maybe pop your debit card inside your phone case. It should bop through it.

towerful@programming.dev on 08 Jul 07:21 collapse

Yup, true.

But contactless via a phone can have no limit.
Adding a debit card to phone case means the upper limit is £100. Which is actually fine, and is the limit I have normally set for phone contactless. But I can instantly remove that limit via my banking app.

And the phone needs to be unlocked to make a payment.
Do if I lose my phone anyone can charge £100 to the debit card.

khannie@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 08:26 collapse

Yeah, all fair points. I do love the convenience of using my phone to pay too in fairness.

DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 06:27 next collapse

I was hesitating due to this as well, until I realized that my payments are something I want google to have data on least of all. So I got a debit card and turns out it is no inconvenience at all.

bent@feddit.dk on 08 Jul 07:18 next collapse

I hear so many people praise paying with their phones, and there I am, so happy that I can leave my phone at home when shopping. Each to their own I guess.

user224@lemmy.sdf.org on 08 Jul 14:10 collapse

Everyone has different preferences.

My separate debit card and transport card won’t discharge or just stop working as likely as a phone. It also won’t be suddenly affected by bugs, nor will it get slower. Nor do I get Google also tracking every single payment as well.

The only disadvantage is compatibility. So many things, and now even some shops use contactless-only terminals, while I got contactless or magnetic payments blocked. Only chip + PIN.
But anyway, the shop that had to downgrade to contactless only due to increased fees on regular old terminal also started asking people to pay in cash instead, again, due to the fees.

njordomir@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 16:47 next collapse

It’s not necessarily a solution, but my Garmin watch can still hold some of my cards, so I don’t need the NFC payment on my phone to duplicate that functionality. Do you wear or carry any other devices that can stand-in?

towerful@programming.dev on 08 Jul 19:28 collapse

No.
I tried a smart watch for a week or so, and hated wearing it.
Hadn’t worn a watch in 20 years, and it felt very strange

njordomir@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 20:04 collapse

Fair enough. I was in that camp for a decade or more myself. I hope you find a solution!

AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net on 09 Jul 00:30 collapse

"The fact that Google has that locked down surely violates some EU laws. But I’m sure they wave away the laws because of “financial security” or some other bullshit. "

I don’t know as much as I’d like to about the regulatory side of this, but I know that Google and other big tech have done a masterful job of proactively building themselves into systems such that taking action against them is difficult.

I think that’s part of why the US antitrust case against Microsoft a few decades ago fizzled out into nothing — even though Microsoft was deemed to have been a monopolist, the big question was how do we remedy that in a way that isn’t going to be harmful? The consensus on this amongst people who I respect is that the results of the Microsoft case was woefully insufficient and something that helped to lay the foundations of the big tech dominance that we see today.

6nk06@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jul 02:00 collapse

I installed GrapheneOS for the security and lack of Google. I didn’t know it was a very nice stock Android without any crap. I love it.

sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 08 Jul 04:17 collapse

Main things holding me back are the apps I already paid for on Google Play, and tap to pay.

6nk06@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jul 04:19 collapse

Tap to pay is not there. But you can install the Play Store and install all your paid applications, that’s what I did.

sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 08 Jul 04:23 next collapse

I guess I’ll need to get one of those little holsters that can hold a credit card.

6nk06@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jul 04:29 collapse

I’m not trying to convince you but I was paying for everything with my phone, it was the most important feature. After installing GrapheneOS, i got control back and piece of mind, and I dont miss tap to pay.

downhomechunk@midwest.social on 08 Jul 07:09 collapse

You can sandbox play store apps right?

6nk06@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jul 07:46 next collapse

Everything is sandboxed but I don’t have all the details. You don’t actively turn any sandbox on or off, it’s always there IIRC.

ITGuyLevi@programming.dev on 08 Jul 11:45 collapse

Even the play store is sandboxed. Those stupid games covered in ads, no where near as bad when the app never has a network connection or access to any files outside its directory.

oce@jlai.lu on 08 Jul 01:11 next collapse

Does this induce a current?

nightmare786@leminal.space on 08 Jul 02:22 next collapse

so jealous, wish it or lineage os worked on any of my phones

cabbage@piefed.social on 08 Jul 07:06 collapse

I believe /e/OS supports a broader range of devices, and it's also pretty great in my experience. The focus is on getting rid of google (replacing all services with MicroG and nextcloud integration) and blocking trackers while providing a smooth user experience, so it's security features are not as over the top as Graphene. It's still a huge freaking improvement over stock Android though, and I find it to be a joy to use.

On devices supported by the online installer it can be up an running in like 30 minutes, no technical skills required. :)

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 08 Jul 09:53 next collapse

Thanks for highlighting this. I might try it out on my OP7Pro.

TheWhetherMan@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 13:45 collapse

Does this work with multiple device accounts? Work requires my phone to have a personal/work account to be able to access applications like teams, and it’s the only thing keeping me from swapping

cabbage@piefed.social on 08 Jul 13:49 next collapse

In the sense of multiple users in Android settings? That works, it can be enabled in settings -> system -> multiple users. I haven't tested it though, as I don't have any need for that.

I use Microsoft Authenticator and Microsoft Outlook for work, and both work flawlessly with /e/OS. Thankfully I have not had any reason to test Teams, but I'm pretty sure that would work as well.

chM5tZ8zMp@lemmy.sdf.org on 08 Jul 19:22 collapse

I can confirm that this works with LineageOS using something like Insular, and I have tested it.

EndOfLine@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 00:55 next collapse

Your chats are saved in your account for up to 72 hours, whether Gemini Apps Activity is on or off.

myactivity.google.com/product/gemini

I wonder how long before AI services are added to ad blockers and VPN privacy controls.

infyrian@kbin.melroy.org on 08 Jul 01:03 next collapse

Narrator: And users did not in fact, take action.

It'll just be one more thing for them to complain and do nothing about. That is all.

SaneMartigan@aussie.zone on 08 Jul 08:47 collapse

Most people wont even notice. My non techy friends love their new Pixel phones and all the AI assistance.

napkin2020@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jul 02:07 next collapse

I mean, Google Assistant is getting replaced with Gemini and so far that was the biggest pain point of mine: No I don’t want to turn on Gemini activity history, yes I still want to be able to make calls with it…

This is nicer, imo. You can just not have Gemini app to not let this happen. 72 hour retention is pretty standard, if not better than most of free LLM providers. I hate Google with passion and I try to avoid them as much as possible but Gemini is just so darn easy to use. I also use Kagi and their assistant does most of the heavy lifting & privacy concerning.

edit: Clearly there are some misunderstandings? They have been basically putting pretty much essential features behind the wall of opting in for App history for no reason. I compromise and use them for trivial stuff.

You can always delete Gemini app or turn of integrations manually(sucks that its opt out and not opt in). This is better since it’s giving privacy aware who wish to disable history but still want to use integrations, a choice.

insaneinthemembrane@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 07:21 next collapse

Anyone know if this is happening outside the US and if it is whether it’s happening inside the EU?

unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de on 08 Jul 08:20 next collapse

Yeah, this seems like an easy lawsuit in the EU tbh

tinned_tomatoes@feddit.uk on 08 Jul 22:42 next collapse

I’m in the UK and today I got asked whether I wanted to leave this on or not - it just notified me and asked me to confirm my consent.

So I think this article’s headline is slightly misleading - Google is actively informing users and asking them to confirm their consent.

insaneinthemembrane@lemmy.world on 09 Jul 07:01 collapse

That’s good. I haven’t had anything though, hopefully saved by the EU.

andxz@lemmy.world on 09 Jul 08:07 next collapse

I live in Finland using Android on a Nokia and I can switch Gemini off completely and choose to use the old Google Assistant instead. It did initially appear out of nowhere when they patched it in, but I could immediately turn it off with the same prompt that the other guy also got.

If it’s unavoidable it seems to be an US only thing atm.

JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz on 09 Jul 10:37 collapse

Opt-out by default in the EU I’m fairly sure.

You can check here: myactivity.google.com/product/gemini

LordWiggle@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 07:26 next collapse

I just removed gemini from my phone.

iAvicenna@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 09:44 collapse

me too and then it somehow popped up in messages which I had to “turn off” separately. removing AI from an Android phone is an illusion.

AstralPath@lemmy.ca on 08 Jul 12:29 collapse

grapheneos.org

Make your next phone a Pixel and load GrapheneOS onto it. Problem solved.

Amir@lemmy.ml on 08 Jul 14:09 next collapse

Pixel stopped publishing device trees since a few weeks ago, it will be significantly more difficult for the devs now to continue maintaining it.

iAvicenna@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 16:26 collapse

I would already do it now if not for banking apps

WrenFeathers@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 07:28 next collapse

Remember when iPhone was the bad guy amongst these kids? But I guess as long as it has more options, surely it’s better!

SnortsGarlicPowder@lemmy.zip on 08 Jul 09:22 collapse

What? Apple is the bad guy, Google is the bad guy. They are both bad guys!

WrenFeathers@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 10:24 collapse

I never said Apple was great, did I?

SnortsGarlicPowder@lemmy.zip on 08 Jul 13:02 collapse

You kinda did though. I am unsure what your comment is actually truing to convey. Users only have 2 options of mobile OSs that are average consumer ready.

WrenFeathers@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 18:21 collapse

Naah. I kinda didn’t. I was simply calling out all the kids that smugly looked down on anyone using anything that wasn’t android.

Now it seems they’re very quiet. Some gifts just wrap themselves, don’t they?

RedStrider@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 07:34 next collapse

My experience with Gemini:

Hey Google, set a timer for 5 minutes.

Gemini: I’m sorry, I don’t understand.

WTF is the point of it then?

Imagine taking away the only useful feature of a voice assistant 💀

chiliedogg@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 09:40 next collapse

My recent experience with my phone is I tell it to set a 5 minute timer and it sets one in the fucking Google search browser, and if I page away I lose the timer.

HugeNerd@lemmy.ca on 09 Jul 02:49 collapse

I just use the timer on my microwave, I suppose the kitchen is the most likely place you’d want a timer. Unless you were using 5 minute epoxy.

AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net on 09 Jul 00:22 collapse

When I first got into Android (I miss my Nexus 6 T.T ), it felt like I could do so much more with my phone than I can now. I had so much cool automation shit that leveraged stuff like Google assistant voice commands, but now it’s shit on so many levels. It goes beyond the user facing side of things; I used to use the app Tasker for a lot of the automation stuff, and over the years, it seems like the dev has been climbing an uphill battle against Google gating off functionality, and generally making things opaque and difficult for developers.

figjam@midwest.social on 08 Jul 10:21 next collapse

I switched Gemini language to an unsupported language.

daggermoon@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 10:31 next collapse

I’m not signed into a Google account on my phone, am I safe?

DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jul 20:52 next collapse

Go to Settings --> Apps

Find “Gemini” and tap into the app page and tap disable

If you can’t find Gemini, you phone probably didn’t get the Google Play System Update yet, so check the app list when you update next time. (Or you can refuse to update, but outdated android comes with security risks)

Mine is already disable for some reason. Maybe I did that a while ago and forgot about it.

Asidonhopo@lemmy.world on 09 Jul 10:29 collapse

Mine apparently didn’t, but it’s an older Samsung. Like, micro-USB era. I’d be surprised if Google ever autoinstalls Gemini because of the age.

Brotha_Jaufrey@lemmy.world on 09 Jul 00:05 collapse

ADB tools —> remove google services and other spyware apps —> oops, you bricked your phone

biggerbogboy@sh.itjust.works on 08 Jul 13:32 next collapse

I swear, whenever I try to use it, it just makes me wish I could delete it. I ask the answer to a simple question and it gives me a whole essay on how this one aspect of what I said is more nuanced than one would imagine, and I’m left there waiting 5 minutes to get it to say anything of substance, but it doesn’t when I explicitly tell it to “just give me the fucking answer”, which I have to say every time for it to say anything useful.

It also doesn’t work with timers or anything actually useful and I doubt it’ll get any better with third party app access.

Google assistant was so much better, it even still works with its servers being down (for me at least) because it’s a better assistant than whatever Gemini is supposed to be.

anachrohack@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 13:53 next collapse

Wish there were better 3rd party mobile options. On pc I can install Linux on any laptop made in the last 15 years and it will work basically flawlessly. No such equivalent exists for smart phones

Amir@lemmy.ml on 08 Jul 14:07 next collapse

LineageOS

Trihilis@ani.social on 08 Jul 17:03 next collapse

FairPhone can run Postmarket OS, eOS, iodeos, calyxos and lineageos.

Some have longer support than others. Also you can buy separate parts for their phones and they are modular.

noughtnaut@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 20:43 next collapse

Yes but do they support the digital national ID and SSO apps that are (only) avaliable for android and apple? Until they do, a lot of users are going to be locked into those two big OS vendors. 😞

GreenKnight23@lemmy.world on 09 Jul 09:05 next collapse

I don’t get it.

you’re in a thread discussing the finer points of privacy concerns about a corporation snooping on your apps and your only example of a barrier to not use a privacy focused product is…your requirement for government backdoors and spyware?

also SSO works just fine on eOS. unless you’re talking about googles MFA. at that point why are you even concerned about privacy?

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 09 Jul 10:43 collapse

eOS is Android

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 09 Jul 10:42 collapse

If you don’t need any of that¸ you’re good!

Enjoy your new linux phone!

zyberteq@lemmy.world on 08 Jul 20:49 collapse

Yes, but i have a Nothing Phone (1). I should check the other alternatives, but afaik lineageos does not support my phone.

Homefry@infosec.pub on 08 Jul 21:24 collapse

I’m still praying for TempleOS mobile version.

01189998819991197253@infosec.pub on 09 Jul 02:36 next collapse

You really think that the holy OS can even fit in such a small, restrictive device as a cellphone? Of course not! It needs room to truly achieve transcendence.

ICastFist@programming.dev on 09 Jul 11:53 collapse

God does not wish HolyC to compile to lowly ARM architectures

ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Jul 11:42 next collapse

Is there a petition for antitrust charges against Google somewhere? I’m over the duopoly. Both options suck.

ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world on 09 Jul 12:15 collapse

I just went into my settings after reading this article (and getting a bit frustrated that it was a wall of text with no clear instructions right up front).

I did a search in settings for “gemini” and found the Gemini settings. There’s no clear ‘off’ switch. But there’s is an option to switch back to Google Assistant. So I did that. And not when I search for Gemini in settings it urges me to enable Gemini.

I’m taking that as a good sign that I’ve disabled it permanently. Thought I’d post this info in case it helps someone else. Or so if I’m incorrect somebody else can correct me.

Passerby6497@lemmy.world on 09 Jul 13:12 collapse

While I wouldn’t assume anything is permanent these days, I’d agree for the moment. I had already uninstalled Gemini on my phone (2ish months ago) and just verified I still see Google listed as the default assistant.