Microsoft Looking to Use Nuclear Reactors to Power Its Data Centers (www.extremetech.com)
from L4s@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 01 Oct 2023 22:00
https://lemmy.world/post/6131335

Microsoft Looking to Use Nuclear Reactors to Power Its Data Centers::undefined

#technology

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ninekeysdown@lemmy.world on 01 Oct 2023 22:08 next collapse

That’s … actually pretty neat.

Makes a lot of sense given the amount of power needed to run a data centers like that. Definitely cleaner in the long run too.

They’ll still need backup power/generators but they’ll need a lot less of them and they’ll mostly be needed for the nuclear parts.

LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 02:30 next collapse

There is another thread stating it is because training AI takes a lot of energy. Any reason to boost nuclear plants is good to me.

ricdeh@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 07:19 collapse

Right, any reason to throw millions or billions of dollars at wasting enormous quantities of concrete and water and at generating highly toxic waste that will irradiate its environment for millennia, and at ripping apart landscapes to extract uranium is a good one to you, I wouldn’t have expected anything else.

LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 13:07 collapse

… study more.

tillimarleen@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 13:18 collapse

because you have? yeah right

tryptaminev@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 06:44 next collapse

They could just run renewables since they already need batteries as you said.

Also i dont want incompetent people operating nuclear reactors. We saw what happened with that multiple times already and you still shouldnt eat boars in eastern Europe bc. auf radiation levels thanks to fucking Tschernobyl.

LoreleiSankTheShip@lemmy.ml on 02 Oct 2023 08:37 next collapse

You should research this a bit more because ironically more people get exposed to radiation in the coal industry than in nuclear, percentage wise. Also I live in Eastern Europe and all game is safe to eat.

tryptaminev@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 08:42 next collapse

Also I live in Eastern Europe and all game is safe to eat.

smithsonianmag.com/…/why-germanys-wild-boars-are-…

grs.de/…/contamination-mushrooms-and-wild-boar-ra…

Your government is probably lying to you then.

gnygnygny@lemm.ee on 03 Oct 2023 18:33 collapse

Nothing compare to the radiation levels in tchernobyl and under the 1,4 billions euros sarcophage.

Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 13:36 collapse

I take it you haven’t read the relatively new study that showed that the radiation in the animals in Eastern Europe is actually more from unregulated atomic bomb testing rather than Chernobyl.

Diplomjodler@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 08:30 collapse

The whole plan has only one minor flaw: It’ll never work. Building a nuclear power plant never was, never is and never will be economical. The current boom in nuclear grandiose announcements is nothing but a smokescreen. The purpose is to delay the adoption of renewable energy with lofty promises that will never come to fruition. Then we’d be forced to keep using fossil fuels, which is the end goal.

Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 13:43 collapse

You comment has one minor flaw.

Small modular reactors are a thing now. NuScale has already had their VOYGR SMR plants approved for use in the US. Westinghouse has one that should be ready for sale in the next few years too.

Large nuclear plants aren’t economical for profit generation right now, but SMRs definitely have the ability to be economical for huge power users like Microsoft.

Diplomjodler@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 18:50 collapse

The NRC approved the design, so now they can start building it. That is still a looong way off from having a working reactor. And all those companies are way behind their originally planned schedules. Which is my whole point. I’m not saying they might not get this stuff to work some day. I’m saying that it will take way too long to make any contribution to fighting climate change. We need to decarbonise now and and we have the technology to do it now.

Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 18:55 collapse

That’s got nothing to do with Microsoft though. Their reactor wouldn’t be used to power other people, only their own data centers.

They currently buy that from the grid, and they don’t really have any control over the source of that electricity generation. We should absolutely be pushing the power generators to go with renewables, but Microsoft isn’t a generator. They’re a customer like you or me.

They’re looking at moving to small reactors eventually because of the cost of buying from the grid, not for the environment.

Diplomjodler@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 22:33 collapse

It would still be far cheaper to deploy the same kind of capacity in renewables. Whoever came up with this brilliant plan can’t do basic math.

Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 23:22 collapse

Probably not because they would need to buy MUCH more land to do it.

SMRs are so much more compact per MW. The one from NuScale that is approved already can do 924MW in 0.05 square miles. To do the same capacity with wind would take 94 square miles and 17 square miles for solar.

Buying 17 square miles of land close enough to just one of their data centers would cost billions, on top of the cost of paying for the panels and installation.

The whole point of them looking at these at all is because they do not want to purchase from the grid.

lettruthout@lemmy.world on 01 Oct 2023 22:48 next collapse

What could go wrong?

This for-profit company will finally come up with a solution to nuclear waste that has eluded the industry for decades. But if that turns out to be expensive, Microsoft will be around for thousands of years to ensure that nothing leaks that shouldn’t. Of course the US government will help them with the cost of establishing the reactors and when something goes wrong (because “nuclear”).

/s

Fraylor@lemm.ee on 01 Oct 2023 23:10 next collapse

Shrug. It’s better than nothing or throwing ones hands up and saying “oh well crank up the coal burners!”

tryptaminev@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 06:47 collapse

Yeah in the meantime they could just build centifold that power in renewables and an electricity grid to make it available everywhere.

Everyone who is strongly pro nuclear is also pro coal and other fossil fuels because they do fhe bidding of the cirrent fossil industries. Just using uranium instead of carbon.

phillaholic@lemm.ee on 01 Oct 2023 23:33 next collapse

Imagine if this was Google?

SmashingSquid@notyour.rodeo on 02 Oct 2023 01:10 collapse

If it was google it would definitely end badly when they decided to kill it off since the reactor can’t show web ads.

Zetta@mander.xyz on 02 Oct 2023 01:17 next collapse

There are many companies developing small nuclear reactors for deployment in a lot wider locations compared to current nuclear. This is something humanity needs a lot of focus on to help protect the environment and meet our ever growing energy needs. The more companies working on SMRs the better in my opinion.

Nuclear waste is an overblown argument compared to the benefits nuclear power provides.

AdmiralShat@programming.dev on 02 Oct 2023 03:36 next collapse

Almost all nuclear reactors in the US are privately owned.

Im not arguing for or against, but this would be nothing out of the ordinary.

kibiz0r@midwest.social on 02 Oct 2023 04:26 collapse

  • We have ways of storing waste safely, which are the same ways the planet has stored radioactive material for millennia.
  • There are experimental fission reactors that can consume this waste, as well as possible fusion reactors in the near future, so storage may become moot.
  • Coal ash disperses a crapton of radioactive material into the air, which is way worse than lodging it deep underground, encased on concrete.
gnygnygny@lemm.ee on 03 Oct 2023 18:45 collapse

  • underground storage is starting. And some of them already failed.
  • gen4 are experimental since several decades. None of them are commercial
  • last low radiation studies should worried anybody working in any nuclear plant.
[deleted] on 01 Oct 2023 22:52 next collapse

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YurkshireLad@lemmy.ca on 01 Oct 2023 23:10 next collapse

Clippy: it looks like you are trying to prevent a nuclear meltdown….

Oh yes, what could go wrong. Windows can’t even run an advertising board without blue screening…

“The core is about to melt down! Hit the shutdown button!!” “I can’t, it’s installing updates!!!”

JoMiran@lemmy.ml on 01 Oct 2023 23:26 next collapse

Microsoft cloud runs mostly on Linux.

jbloggs777@discuss.tchncs.de on 02 Oct 2023 05:23 collapse

It mostly runs. An Azure-optimized HyperV build is the primary hypervisor I think, but I’d wager that most customer VMs on Azure are running Linux. However, if you want to run Windows in the cloud, it’s a decent option.

My experience with Azure has been less than stellar. They have good API documentation, but tooling & core compute is a bit janky. The web UI is also a throwback to a past era, but you can’t really avoid it when debugging issues which you have to do often during development. Then the developers want to forget all about it … which is a problem when something inevitably breaks.

[deleted] on 01 Oct 2023 23:38 next collapse

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tryptaminev@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 06:41 collapse

What the fuck are they spending all the money on, wglhen they cant even use a dedicated OS? Shit most of that money must go into bribes and lining the pockets of the other criminals involved

Diplomjodler@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 08:03 collapse

If something like that actually were to happen, that would be a huge design flaw. Not that I’d be surprised, though.

Smokeydope@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 12:19 collapse

Somewhere in some timeline relatively close to ours this actually happens, the idea of 3 mile island/Chernobyl 2.0 event happening to microsofts personal reactor because a forced windows update screws over emergency override software is peak absurdist dystopia that I get chuckles from

vividspecter@lemm.ee on 02 Oct 2023 01:02 next collapse

This is talking about SMRs and not traditional reactors. SMRs still haven’t left the prototype stage, but maybe they’ll start to be useful in a decade’s time, who knows.

Diplomjodler@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 08:35 collapse

That would be a wildly optimistic timeline. And even if they managed to produce a working system by then, it would still take decades longer to scale up to the point where these things could make a meaningful contribution. That’s time we simply don’t have.

hark@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 02:11 next collapse

I don’t think Bill Gates has any significant involvement with Microsoft these days, but wasn’t he pushing for greater nucleus power usage, including trialing reactors in India?

SeaJ@lemm.ee on 02 Oct 2023 03:57 next collapse

He is the primary investor of TerraPower. Not sure about anything with India. They do have something that is being planned in Wyoming.

hark@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 04:02 collapse

Ah, thanks. I looked it up and apparently he had planned something in China but the plans were scrapped and now it’s Wyoming. This is what I get for not looking it up to refresh my memory beforehand.

Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 04:01 next collapse

wasn’t he pushing for greater nucleus power

You’re thinking of Gavin Belson. Nucleus was a Hooli product.

hark@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 04:03 collapse

LOL I didn’t even realize I made that typo. I’ve been typing nucleus a lot more than nuclear lately.

Diplomjodler@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 08:01 collapse

He was promoting something called traveling wave reactors. Which never panned out. Just like nothing will become of this.

seaQueue@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 03:57 next collapse

That feeling when your society is so dysfunctional that only corporations can build much needed advanced infrastructure.

tillimarleen@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 13:19 next collapse

much needed? Nuclear Power for AI?

optissima@possumpat.io on 02 Oct 2023 14:46 collapse

Nuclear power

tillimarleen@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 15:52 collapse

what?

sebinspace@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 16:02 collapse

Nuclear power is not exclusively used for AI. Additionally, if they have their own power, then that frees up whatever energy they use for AI from other plants to be used for other purposes.

tillimarleen@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 17:40 collapse

it still isn‘t a net gain for public infrastructure. which already lacks much needed investment.

sebinspace@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 18:35 collapse

It can be a net gain, who knows what one of these reactors will output?

Cyberwitch_7493@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 03 Oct 2023 02:13 collapse

If they do feed the grid, they’ll probably get some credit back which ultimately lines their pockets instead of funding public infrastructure.

sebinspace@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2023 04:05 collapse

How is that any different from my putting solar panels and selling my excess?

Cyberwitch_7493@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 04 Oct 2023 06:27 collapse

Yes, you’re not a corporation, you’re an individual person. The difference is scale.

Turun@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 13:52 next collapse

Solar Panels are really cheap now.

seaQueue@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 21:54 collapse

Which is great when the sun’s up and the weather is good. Similar deal for wind power, it’s great when the conditions are good. We still haven’t got very large scale storage where we need it to rely on renewables full time. Nuclear helps while we sort out storage but we need to be very, very careful about corruption - if corporations can screw over the public for money they’ve demonstrated that they will, and nuclear implementations cost a lot of money.

lightnegative@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2023 08:35 collapse

Government doesn’t build infrastructure either, it mostly just funds private companies to build it for them.

Theres a whole contract bidding process and everything

ImmortanStalin@lemmygrad.ml on 02 Oct 2023 06:48 next collapse

This would wrap up the whole story arc of Mr Robot to 1 season. Lol

geissi@feddit.de on 02 Oct 2023 11:47 next collapse

companies like Microsoft are always considering novel methods for powering (and cooling) their data centers

If they are near population centers, they could use the excess heat from both for remote heating.
But mostly adding a nuclear power plant to a data center will require additional cooling.

Treczoks@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 20:59 next collapse

Somehow, the idea that a company with a safety and security issues history like Microsoft would run a nuclear reactor sounds like a very, very bad idea.

Do you remember the Aegis cruiser debacle? They didn’t even manage to run a f-ing diesel engine under Windows.

Madison420@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 2023 00:55 collapse

Not the worry you should be worried about. Once they can cut the governmental power cord corporations would have exactly zero limits.

MiikCheque@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 2023 22:51 next collapse

Microsoft and nuclear reactor are words that should never be in the same sentence - easy recipe for disaster

azurefirefly@lemmy.basedcount.com on 03 Oct 2023 09:21 collapse

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