Microsoft wants to update your Windows 11 PC without forcing you to reboot (www.windowscentral.com)
from catculation@lemmy.zip to technology@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 18:38
https://lemmy.zip/post/10477848

#technology

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noodlejetski@lemm.ee on 24 Feb 2024 18:43 next collapse

replicatethefractionofourpower.jpg

SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 24 Feb 2024 22:56 collapse

It seems like Microsoft is going through a real phase of “I made this” and they’re adding all these features that were core to Linux since damn near Linux’s inception.

Multiple desktop instances, sudo (which isn’t the same sudo…), and now trying to mimic the rebootless update.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish when?

maynarkh@feddit.nl on 24 Feb 2024 23:42 next collapse

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish when?

What do you think WSL is trying to be?

deur@feddit.nl on 25 Feb 2024 16:18 collapse

Um… they’re an OS adding more OS features. Get over yourself, EEE is a real thing but holy fuck stop it.

(WSL is concerning EEE-wise, literally nothing else you listed is a valid complaint)

SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 24 Feb 2024 18:56 next collapse

Even if Windows does this, trust me, if you have any Razer products, Razer will fill in the gaps for them.

That shit restarts my Windows machine nearly every fucking day.

helpImTrappedOnline@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 19:09 next collapse

I love that the Razer installer pops up during windows intital setup. Seriously, chill out Razer, I don’t want to sign in to you while I’m bypassing the Microsoft forced sign in.

elvith@feddit.de on 24 Feb 2024 20:07 collapse

It looks like you changed the position of your mouse cursor. Would you like to reboot to apply these changes?

Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 19:36 collapse

This is an odd comment. I use a Razer keyboard and mouse and I’ve never experienced this. What products are you using?

Edit: Thi said, I HATE how Razer and Nvidia make you sign in to update things. Like, REALLY hate that. They even force two factor on us. Like… Why the fuck do I care about account security for either of those?

SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Feb 2024 19:44 collapse

You can update Razer by signing in as Guest and not actually logging in. I think it is the same with Nvidia. They just eant you to think you need to log in.

QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 23:40 collapse

I didn’t looking it that much, but while “continue as guest” is a prominent option in Razer Synapse, I was unable to get GeForce Experience to let me install updates without signing in.

It’s whatever though, you can install and update to relatively recent Nvidia drivers with the CUDA winget package. Now that I think about it, around 95% of my Windows software is installed through winget these days. I’m a big fan.

SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Feb 2024 23:45 collapse

I run a main box that I still dual-boot between Linux and Windows, and the rest of my boxes are Linux. I’m definitely skeptical of Microsoft’s drive in adding these tools other than to try to unseat Linux dominance in server settings, but for real, some of the stuff they’ve been adding is pretty tits, like winget for example.

QuaternionsRock@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 23:56 collapse

I don’t think there are malicious intentions behind winget. Aside from the fact that it’s objectively useless for server configuration, Windows Server lost to Linux in terms of performance per dollar a long time ago. The target use case for winget seems to have been spinning up new employee PCs, but I’m not confident that it would be wise to use it for that.

It’s also shockingly simple for a package manager. Nearly all of the “packages” simply download the software’s installer from the official website and silently execute it. You can see (and add to) all of the package configs here. It’s literally a GitHub monorepo lmao

Edit: here is the one for Steam, for example. The whole thing is 63 lines of yaml.

shortwavesurfer@monero.town on 24 Feb 2024 19:05 next collapse

So you mean they want windows to have something that Linux has had for 20 years? Android has also had this since ~2017 too.

toastynugs@sh.itjust.works on 24 Feb 2024 19:08 next collapse

My android phone and Linux computers all still want reboots after updates…

PlexSheep@feddit.de on 24 Feb 2024 19:12 next collapse

Linux only needs a reboot if you want to update the kernel, normally.

lurch@sh.itjust.works on 24 Feb 2024 20:03 next collapse

but in that case you can often kexec to restart linux faster, skipping the actual BIOS/UEFI boot.

also, some distros offer live patching of kernel code for $$$

Rustmilian@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 22:58 collapse

You don’t need to pay money for live patching.
They really just make you pay for having them do it for you.

Flipper@feddit.de on 25 Feb 2024 02:46 collapse

I think you forgot to mention what distro you are running.

Rustmilian@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 05:10 collapse

PotatOS btw.
<img alt="installgentoo" src="https://i.redd.it/6ji9782d72s71.jpg">

uis@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 16:40 collapse

<img alt="" src="https://derpicdn.net/img/view/2020/9/24/2451747.png">

jbk@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Feb 2024 15:54 next collapse

Technically, but it’s safer to reboot nonetheless: fedoramagazine.org/offline-updates-and-fedora-35/

tool@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 06:20 collapse

Eh, it depends. Other low-level things (systemd, glibc, etc) need a reboot too.

shortwavesurfer@monero.town on 24 Feb 2024 19:19 collapse

"Colonel updates require a reboot, but just normal application updates do not. And most system updates do not. I partly misspoke about Android. I should have been more clear because I was referring to the A/B partition scheme, but yeah, to run the new system does require rebooting.

kae@lemmy.ca on 24 Feb 2024 19:25 collapse

*Kernel

FaceDeer@kbin.social on 24 Feb 2024 19:32 next collapse

It was the British spelling.

kae@lemmy.ca on 24 Feb 2024 19:37 next collapse

😂 As a Canuck, we use both. But the computer term is definitely Kernel. Unless we’re marching out on a battlefield…

homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 21:36 collapse

Seven bugs and crashes

crusty@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 24 Feb 2024 19:33 next collapse

Colonel Kernel

mox@lemmy.sdf.org on 24 Feb 2024 21:48 collapse
ilmagico@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 19:17 next collapse

I love linux and been using it for decades, personally and professionally, but no, linux doesn’t have “hot patching” the same way as that article describes it. At most it can live patch the kernel (and only few distros actually use that), but definitely not for the last 20 years, and definitely not running processes. However, it does usually restart background processes after an update without requiring a reboot, but in my experience, often times the system becomes unstable after several such updates and rebooting is effectively necessary (though not forced, and that’s why I like it).

flying_sheep@lemmy.ml on 24 Feb 2024 20:06 next collapse

I frequently reboot, so for me, something like SteamOS’s a/b atomic update process would be ideal: no instability, no forced reboot.

PrefersAwkward@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 20:43 next collapse

Yeah, the security in knowing that if you’re way top busy right now, you don’t have to install or even download any updates. And you don’t have to worry your system will suddenly become crashy, glitchy, and unstable because it decided on its own to install some things and let you know you can reboot whenever.

It’s so freaking annoying I have to use Windows at work. It takes liberty to do what it wants and then my workflow gets hosed.

I get that there is security, but if you force updates, I should have some kind of notice or “hey, we need to install mandatory updates. You can schedule in the next 24 hours when or you can get them over with”

[deleted] on 24 Feb 2024 21:03 next collapse

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BearOfaTime@lemm.ee on 24 Feb 2024 21:11 next collapse

For the home user, this is a giant PITA for which I wholly blame MS.

For business machines, I lump the company IT in with MS, because there are Policies for this stuff they should be managing.

I say this as an IT person responsible for things like this. The first rule is don’t fuck with user machines during business hours, the second is to allow them to postpone stuff as needed.

Can only imagine getting an update, then a reboot, while I’m on an outage call trying to get a critical system back up. And hoping my laptop comes back up and my VPN still works.

deranger@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 21:37 collapse

Can’t say I’ve experienced forced reboots on either my home or work PC; I always have gotten an option.

Do you have to ignore updates for a while until they’re forced? I’m pretty quick with updating when I’m notified- typically that evening when I’m done with the computer.

I’ve been building my own windows PCs since 99, using every main version of consumer Windows except ME. Never been forced while in the middle of something.

BearOfaTime@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 01:32 next collapse

With Win10 and later (I honestly don’t remember with Win 8), by default updates happen in the background, and will be applied and a reboot scheduled.

It won’t necessarily force a reboot, but it can reboot when you’re not there. I’ve had updates with reboot happen when I was away for 30 minutes, on a machine I was setting up and hadn’t yet configured policies.

PrefersAwkward@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 20:04 collapse

The updates quietly happening in the background are still a problem because they can’t be paused or canceled and they use a lot of sysrme resources to get done. And when they’re complete, your experience is less stable till the reboot.

I usually notice them when my work computer slows down and things start having more bugs than usual. My work computer has very respectable specs

locuester@lemmy.zip on 25 Feb 2024 15:08 collapse

I agree, but this echo chamber doesn’t accept such alternate realities.

homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 21:37 next collapse

Security? HA! If business realized they could eliminate 85-95% of their attack vectors by getting rid of Windows, we’d all be better off.

They won’t, though. Realize it.

Edit: Oh i see, you meant security patches. Yes, true. I stand by my hinged rant though.

KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Feb 2024 03:13 collapse

Current versions of windows literally let you set an update reboot window. So set up the times you use it, and then forget about it and let it install whenever it wants.

I honestly, and sincerely, do not understand all the hate Windows gets with current updates. The alternative at the moment is “hope the user remembers to update” which we have seen in action and which does not work.

Is it annoying when you don’t set things up properly? Sure! But that’s a failing on the users side.

I’ve been using Windows for decades, and the last time I had it unexpectedly reboot for an update was years ago. Because I’ve actually taken the 10 minutes to understand the system, and how to configure it to do what I want.

PrefersAwkward@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 06:33 next collapse

I haven’t used Windows 11 interestingly, so I don’t know if they’ve changed their update habits, and I wouldn’t be surprised either way. Windows 10 is the last edition I’ve used. Since Windows 8, I had plenty of issues with Windows and Microsoft, and it got worse every release. I’ll bullet-form my personal complaints at the bottom of this page.

My final straw for Windows 10 in my personal life was a forced restart, and I had all my update settings where I wanted them, and still, I lost a really important session to that reboot. Since I was pretty comfy with Linux, I went that direction. Since then, Linux has gotten more user-friendly and plays videogames, way more than Mac. It’s still not something I recommend to most people, but probably someday, it’ll get to a Mac or Windows ease of use.

At work, most of us haven’t been migrated to Windows 11 from Windows 10, and I still get updates installing in the background a lot, causing issues even on our Windows servers. I’m sure our ops team can tune these abhorrent update defaults, but it’s just a frustrating experience nonetheless.

I think a prompt or reminder could go really far to let the user configure that during setup.

Here are some of my complaints over time:

  • Force installs and bloat. Inclusion of bloat by default. Reinstallation of bloat on updates.
  • Resetting of my settings and registry edits regularly.
  • Ads on the desktop
  • Needless nagging to use their other bullshit like Onedrive. You think it’s good? Great! Let me uninstall it and use the cloud providers of my choice.
  • Forcing an inferior start menu without a choice to use alternatives or the old ones.
  • Windows tracks insane amounts of users’ data and actrivities, and I do not trust them to admit to all the tracking they do but the tracking they admit to doing is already mind-boggling.
  • Windows 10’s forced upgrade and Windows 10 popup scandals were completely dishonest and disgusting, and I have not heard enough apologies for what they did. This personally affected me and broke a bunch of crap before Windows 10 was even well-baked.
  • A history of forced updates. A history of forced reboots. A history of lost work. This is me and my family. It sounds like Windows has reverted some of their worst practices, but the precedent is set, and I’ll never trust Microsoft to stick to it.
  • The Windows seeker’s scandal personally affected me. They put all sorts of beta garbage on my computer without telling me. This caused a loss of files. They’ve made a resurgence on their unethical behaviors in the browser space. I have faith they’ll continue to revisit their other old habits. Look up Embrace-Extend-Extinguish and it’ll get you started. IE was their old baby. Edge is the new one.
  • Buying and killing small companies and studios, such as Rare, a bit like EA had done
  • Moving away from some of the nice things earlier Windows versions did, like a start menu with a neat list of organized and searchable programs.
  • Having just 1 UI experience that isn’t super customizable and breaking 3rd party UIs.
  • Fullscreen popups and nonsense over nothing
  • Microsoft’s anti-competitive behavior has been a factor most of my life. They still push the boundaries of anti-competitive behavior to the Nth’s degree. Again, that reading on Embrace-Extend-Extinguish will give you a taste of their BS.
  • Having fewer features and techs than Linux that I like to use, such as specialty filesystems, IO schedulers, process schedulers, swapping systems (ZRAM/ZSWAP) etc. Being stuck on NTFS (are you kidding me?) REFS is too little too late and you can’t even boot off it
  • Way worse IO/Disk performance and features
  • inferior memory management

Overall, I don’t want to do business or help in the success in an organization I do not like by offering up my data, watching their ads, and using their products less than necessary. I like some of the things Bill Gates has done, but it doesn’t change any of my views on this.

KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Feb 2024 21:32 collapse

This is a weird response to one comment on a specific thing.

You’re essentially saying “yeah well that might be fixed but here’s a bunch of unrelated things you didn’t talk about that I don’t like.”

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PrefersAwkward@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 21:57 collapse

I felt like clarifying that the updates issues I faced were the last straw and that if anyone was interested, I listed the other reasons I quit working with them and never looked back. That’s why I wrote all that at the bottom.

Even if Microsoft does some things right, they still have a history of doing things wrong and have a bevy of other dark patterns. I do not trust them to get it right anymore. They could go back to their old ways tomorrow and I wouldn’t be surprised. Thankfully, it’s not my problem except at work

ComplacentGoat@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 14:06 collapse

Win 11 Pro user here. It doesn’t care what time you set for updates, it’ll do them when it feels like anyway, or annoy the piss out of you with notifications.

KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Feb 2024 21:05 collapse

Annoy you with notifications, yes. But if it’s restarting outside the window set, you’ve likely messed something up.

ComplacentGoat@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 21:38 collapse

It might be that I don’t leave the PC on all the time, I just hit sleep. But still, it shouldn’t strong arm me into updating after a day or two of the download. Also hate having to RegEdit Edge off the thing after each one.

Aux@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 22:25 next collapse

Windows doesn’t force you to do anything. You can reboot or not reboot, or skip updates altogether.

ilmagico@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 22:08 collapse

Windows lets you pause updates for some time, maybe a week or so, after that you’re going to take them whether you like it or not. Granted, you had a week or so to prepare, so it’s ok to some extent, but don’t tell me Windows doesn’t force you…

Aux@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 22:59 collapse

No, you can disable them completely through local group policy. Windows doesn’t force you to do anything.

ilmagico@lemmy.world on 27 Feb 2024 17:31 collapse

Hmm, good to know, I’ll have to try, just out of curiosity. Is that available on Windows Home or just Pro? Anyways, it’s not something that many people would easily figure out, so for most non-technical people they effectively cannot disable them.

Aux@lemmy.world on 28 Feb 2024 09:30 collapse

It is available in all versions, but there’s no UI in Home Edition, you have to modify registry by hand.

As for non-technical people, these are the people who should be forces into updates.

P.S. The how to is available directly from MS knowledgebase …microsoft.com/…/how-do-you-turn-off-windows-10-u…

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 25 Feb 2024 00:39 collapse

yeah but even if you need a reboot, linux just needs a regular reboot.

not that long ass 25-minute windows update reboot

vox@sopuli.xyz on 24 Feb 2024 20:32 collapse

you still need to reboot your linux machine or relogin if you updated a process that’s currently running (and in most cases most system processes can’t be just restarted) (…and otherwise you’ll just stay at the old version bit with new data which might cause some instability)

yes, there’s kernel hot-patching but it only affects the kernel, only viable for minor and security upgrades, does not come pre-configured on most consumer distros and not really suitable for home use.

Ephera@lemmy.ml on 26 Feb 2024 03:44 collapse

And you’re saying, you expect Microsoft to come up with something better?

vox@sopuli.xyz on 26 Feb 2024 18:22 collapse

not really, this probably only applies to minor updates

RememberTheApollo@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 19:11 next collapse

It keeps trying. I keep denying it.

I would far rather pay a fee for an OS, like I did for every computer I built up to Win 7, and not have to deal with M$oft’s BS and ad-pushing.

spujb@lemmy.cafe on 24 Feb 2024 19:28 next collapse

you and every person who upvoted you did not read the article lol

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 19:33 next collapse

Or even the preview…

Lemmy moment.

Aatube@kbin.social on 24 Feb 2024 19:56 collapse

Or even the headline

"your Windows 11 PC"

EdibleFriend@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 19:55 next collapse

You deny security updates? Why would you do that?

GlitterInfection@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 20:11 collapse

I raw-dog the internet.

EdibleFriend@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 20:17 collapse

are there internet bug chasers?

GlitterInfection@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 20:19 collapse

Security analysts? Those guys are dirty.

EdibleFriend@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 20:24 collapse

That does fit. What would their grindr be?

Archer@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 22:06 collapse

Open telnet port on a Spamhaus blacklisted IP

lud@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 16:34 collapse

Well, Windows isn’t free…

foggy@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 19:25 next collapse

Everyone wants this.

Rob@lemdro.id on 24 Feb 2024 19:31 next collapse

If Microsoft actually pulls this off I can finally stop using 3rd party firewalls to avoid the forced reboots! Revolutionary on Windows part. Meanwhile on Linux. They already know the assignment. (generally)

Redward@yiffit.net on 24 Feb 2024 19:50 next collapse

Cant upgrade to 11, since my motherboard is too old. So reap what you sow, perhaps ?

DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 25 Feb 2024 05:50 next collapse

Can’t upgrade to 11…

…cause I purposely fucked with the TPM in bios

lud@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 16:33 collapse

Your motherboard? Does windows 11 care about that?. I thought it mostly cared about CPU.

Redward@yiffit.net on 27 Feb 2024 10:22 collapse

Yep but in my case my motherboard is from 2013 that uses cpu sockets that haven’t been produced anymore

PINKeHamton@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 24 Feb 2024 20:45 next collapse

Linux has this

Zorque@kbin.social on 24 Feb 2024 21:04 next collapse

Cool, so its possible then! I hope Microsoft makes it functional for Windows, too.

PINKeHamton@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 24 Feb 2024 22:26 next collapse

As much as I don’t like window I want to see it get better :)

Rustmilian@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 22:48 collapse

It comes in 3 forms.

  1. Update small system components (packages) and load the old into ram until rebooting; I don’t think this is possible on windows.
  2. A/B Image Based Updating; Android and a few Linux distros have this; probably one of the most stable methods.
  3. Live boot updates/Kernel-space Hot Patching; found mostly in Linux servers, and distros with a patched kernel; used mostly for security updates which is what windows is doing here, but Linux can do feature updates this way too.
[deleted] on 24 Feb 2024 22:54 next collapse

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cbarrick@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 23:30 next collapse

How many people are actually using kexec to update Linux without rebooting?

pipe01@programming.dev on 25 Feb 2024 02:19 next collapse

You only rarely update the kernel though

mark3748@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 03:20 next collapse

Yeah, only four times this week. Rolling distro life.

merc@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 05:37 collapse

Windows is very lazy about reboots. Minesweeper changed? Better reboot.

Chrome also got infected with this laziness. It used to be that you had to restart chrome once a month, now it’s almost every day. Among many other reasons, that’s why I’m happy to be using Firefox again.

Patch@feddit.uk on 25 Feb 2024 23:04 collapse

Ubuntu has live patching free for personal use built right in. It’s not exactly a niche thing.

(I don’t bother on most machines because I reboot my laptops every day anyway, but you know; nice for servers and whatnot).

drog4fun@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 06:01 next collapse

The chrome OS is method is pretty cool having a mirrored partitions the one not being used gets updated if there’s an error the other one gets booted and reverted

Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works on 26 Feb 2024 02:22 collapse

What’s Linux? This is the first in hearing of this here on Lemmy.

Can you provide me with an .exe of it?

Moneo@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 18:55 collapse

Does office365 support linux?

homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world on 24 Feb 2024 21:41 next collapse

me looking out on the sea of windows users like, oh the humanity

sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works on 24 Feb 2024 23:41 next collapse

Who cares? It’s not exactly traumatizing to reboot your computer.

entropicshart@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 00:29 next collapse

You’ve clearly not had an update trigger when you were trying to present something, join a meeting, or simply do a quick restart after installing a program and get hit with a 10min “updating windows; do not shut off”

sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works on 26 Feb 2024 03:51 collapse

It shouldn’t do it automatically. It shouldn’t update during a presentation at all.

entropicshart@sh.itjust.works on 26 Feb 2024 08:05 collapse

I’ve had to create GP edits to prevent it from happening because it most certainly does.

Even then MS is fantastic at throwing up MFA reauthentication mid meeting or forgetting to throw it up at all and leaving you shadow logged into Outlook/Teams where it will appear functional from your side, but you will it receive anything until you close and reopen the apps.

They’ve had these issues for years and never prioritize fixing them.

Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 01:26 next collapse

I find having to boot into windows traumatizing regardless

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 25 Feb 2024 08:14 collapse

It is for me.

Pantherina@feddit.de on 25 Feb 2024 00:44 next collapse

So they are going back to the way Linux does it since forever?

Why not just go image based? Instant reboots and even faster updates.

[deleted] on 25 Feb 2024 01:04 collapse

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Blackmist@feddit.uk on 25 Feb 2024 01:45 next collapse

Had a movie stop playing the other week (I use my PC as a Jellyfin server and watch on a Nvidia Shield in another room). I thought something had crashed, but when I went upstairs to check, it had realised nobody was watching it and fucking rebooted.

Aatube@kbin.social on 25 Feb 2024 02:01 next collapse

you should probably use a different operating system if you use it as a server

Blackmist@feddit.uk on 25 Feb 2024 02:25 next collapse

If it was only used as a server, then I would. But it isn’t, so I don’t.

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 25 Feb 2024 08:13 collapse

I use a Manjaro box to game on. And video edit with davinci resolve. And so everything else that I do. Truenas for my NAS.

lud@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 16:32 next collapse

Or use Windows server. It would never do shit like that.

Alternatively you could just not postpone updates for weeks.

Just update your computers and this will never happen.

Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 19:40 collapse

It’s really not a good idea to have a home server you don’t update, assuming it’s accessible outside your network.

Windows updates suck, but they can be delayed to only take place every 6-8 weeks.

Aatube@kbin.social on 26 Feb 2024 11:58 collapse

that wasn't what I was saying

Moneo@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 18:52 collapse

They are probably using their main desktop as their jellyfin server.

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 25 Feb 2024 08:12 collapse

Linux. Bsd. Etc.

dev_null@lemmy.ml on 25 Feb 2024 12:43 collapse

Living room PC is also used for playing VR games (since living room has the space required). Sadly Windows is the only option.

InFerNo@lemmy.ml on 25 Feb 2024 14:45 collapse

Pure curiosity, I don’t own VR gear, does the Linux steam version not have VR?

dev_null@lemmy.ml on 25 Feb 2024 15:10 collapse

Steam itself does support VR on Linux, but most of the actual hardware (like Meta headsets) don’t have drivers for Linux. The ones that do (Valve Index) are buggy, but not unusable. But even then it doesn’t get you far, because 90% of VR games won’t run on Linux, even with Proton.

So Steam is not the problem. Hardware support and developer support is the problem. Can’t really blame developers for not caring, even if they make their VR game work on Linux almost no one would be able to play it anyway, so why bother. It won’t get anywhere unless hardware manufactures start making actual drivers for their headsets on Linux. Meta practically controls the market and they don’t care, so here we are.

RawrGuthlaf@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 18:59 collapse

A Steamlink app was added to the Meta store recently. It supposedly allows playing streamed desktop VR. I have been meaning to try it with Steam on my Linux desktop, so I can’t really vouch for it yet, it could just not work. And who knows if Proton works for any specific VR games.

Cypher@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 03:06 next collapse

Microsoft have done this previously and shelved it because their method had enormous security issues.

I don’t see this going well for them.

victorz@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 15:11 collapse

Isn’t it possible they could learn from their mistakes? Just playing devil’s advocate here.

TDCN@feddit.dk on 25 Feb 2024 06:04 next collapse

Didn’t they say the same when they were developing windows 10? I don’t believe it’s gonna happen.

black_lugia@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 06:41 next collapse

So in other words the

HI WE ARE GETTING THINGS READY FOR YOU

Screen can just pop whever it wants for 20 minutes at a time without warning? Yay…

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 25 Feb 2024 08:11 next collapse

I know people don’t want to hear it anymore because it’s beating a dead horse, but… Linux.

Theharpyeagle@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 13:29 next collapse

Honestly not being able to move the start bar and being told it won’t be changed because their awful new start menu needs it that way was a dealbreaker. Been running Linux Mint exclusively on my desktop for the past few months and it’s been pretty smooth, even for playing games. Thank goodness for Proton!

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 25 Feb 2024 17:54 collapse

Yup. Been using Linux as my primary desktop for years, I think I switched back to windows 2012-2015 or something, then I came back ever since. More and more games are using tools that are cross platform now too - like unity for example. I only imagine compatibility getting better. The installation experience has been better since live CDs were a thing too which is hilarious since windows still has a terrible install UI.

laverabe@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 15:15 collapse

I’ve been using both OSs for over 20 years and the ONLY reason I use windows is for CAD (just 2d). All the foss options have potential but are very poor options for a longtime autocad user. Wine implementation is currently broken/terrible. VM is sorta a fallback option but doesn’t run as fast as a native windows machine.

I plan on switching to Librecad or something similar but it’s like a 10/20 year plan and something tells me I’ll have to develop the features I want myself.

victorz@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 15:12 next collapse

I don’t think those words describe what the intended behavior is, no. I think it’s supposed to be seamless and not really too noticeable. That’s the impression I got from the article anyway.

averyfalken@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 25 Feb 2024 15:43 collapse

I took it to mean ittk update things in the back round like Linux can which is nice.

QuaffPotions@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 13:44 next collapse

I remember some years ago there was a “malware” going around that would flash OpenWRT onto people’s routers, and set them to have more secure default settings.

There should be another thing like that, but one that upgrades Windows into a Linux distro.

systemglitch@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 15:23 next collapse

Yeah Linux is fun, until it breaks a week or two later. I’ll stick with windows, because it never breaks.

SavvyBeardedFish@reddthat.com on 25 Feb 2024 15:33 next collapse

Breaking Linux every week or every other week? That’s almost impressive!

nexussapphire@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 15:45 next collapse

Skill issue! How is my mother better at using Linux than you?😆

nexussapphire@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 15:46 collapse

He must be deleting all the weird files on the c drive. I better empty the recycle bin sudo rm -rf /bin

QuaffPotions@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 15:54 next collapse

Windows never breaks? Uhhhhh, that’s definitely not true. When I have to use Windows, I brace myself every time I have to update.

lud@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 16:30 next collapse

When did you last use windows, lol? Windows is pretty damn stable nowadays. I don’t think an update has ever broken my windows 10 install that is still going from 2016.

Undearius@lemmy.ca on 25 Feb 2024 16:51 collapse

I’ve gotten a number of calls from clients recently where a Windows update uninstalled the Bluetooth drivers, making their Bluetooth mouse and keyboard unusable.

I’ve even had a few where an update uninstalled the WiFi drivers so they couldn’t even download the drivers without a wired network connection.

odelik@lemmy.today on 25 Feb 2024 18:58 collapse

Windows 10 & 11comes pre-packaged with generic wifi and bluetooth drivers that work with the vast majority of the common chipsets.

If a device has forgotten which driver it has, re-aasining the generic driver should be enough to get you operational enough to go grab any advanced drivers for extended device functionality.

Also, as an FYI, I had a fleet (~150) of decommissioned machines (probabaly 20-30 different model over 5 makes) I was converting into a Linux(Deb) distrubuted node automation farm. The amount of times I had to go find drivers (network interfaces were the cost common) that supported the hardware that Linux didn’t have default driver support for was prevelant. That was a very long 2 weeks.

CosmicCleric@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 19:16 collapse

that supported the hardware that Linux didn’t have default driver support for

Curious as to which distro you were using?

(Yeah, I know, but please, humor me.)

odelik@lemmy.today on 25 Feb 2024 19:31 collapse

Debian sever. This was early 2018 or late 2017.

systemglitch@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 20:00 next collapse

It’s been about four years since windows broke on me enough to do a reinstall. Linux lasts a month with me being gentle.

It’s a no brainer.

Really_long_toes@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 03:30 collapse

I run arch BTW, 7 years throwing it down stairs, running commands that I had no idea what they did, learned linux from scratch deleting chunks of my hdd compiling and installing random software, never once had it break bad enough to reinstall . I bet you love ltt too haha… maby you should stick to a beginner os like Windows, I’ve heard Apple is even easier… or why don’t you just pay someone smarter than you to host and troubleshoot your os while they market your info and habits to the highest bidder… oh wait

systemglitch@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 14:59 collapse

I love when morons out themselves, makes blocking people like you an actual joy.

Really_long_toes@lemmy.world on 27 Feb 2024 03:08 collapse

Oh no!.. anyway

Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works on 26 Feb 2024 02:21 collapse

I use windows every day and I’ve never once seen it do anything wrong, ever.

Maybe it’s a skill issue?

hips_and_nips@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 15:59 next collapse

Oh really, I think you and my Debian server with >10 years of uptime should have a conversation.

MajinBlayze@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 16:07 collapse

You should update your kernel at least once every 10 years

hips_and_nips@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 16:18 collapse

There are some lovely tools that allow kernel updates sans reboot.

Sanctus@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 18:50 next collapse

Been running Arch on my work laptop for over a year. Still waiting for the fabled difficulty and update breaks. Starting to think in modern times its perpetuated to keep people on Windows.

systemglitch@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 20:04 collapse

Must be nice. It’s been about seven years since I last dove into Linux, so maybe things have changed. But also in that time, windows became even more stable than it was, and it’s silky smooth these days.

I don’t see any benefits to even trying Linux again.

Sanctus@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 01:52 collapse

“Please sign into your microsoft account to continue.” After entering my PIN.
Ads in the greeter.
lightdm-gtk-greeter does neither of these things.

Ads in my menu along “news and interests”
dmenu simply searches my applications.

Don’t even get me started on the themes either.

Now that proton has brought steam into the mix windows no longer makes sense for gaming rigs, only office chuds who think computers are magic.

systemglitch@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 14:58 collapse

I never see ads on windows. Maybe The were there once, but once disabled, they never came back.

CosmicCleric@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 19:18 next collapse

Name checks out.

AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 22:24 next collapse

Linux breaking depends on mostly 2 thing:

  1. The user. Depending on what they try to do, it can easily break Linux. (looking at me somehow breaking KDE Plasma and somehow fixing it without understanding how it broke or how I fixed it)

  2. Updating (from what I understand, mostly a big issue on rolling release distros like Arch or Manjaro). Bleeding edge software with major bugs the stable release don’t get can always cause instability.

Though, I will say, that I’ve never had win10 crash on me unless I have too much stuff open or am being an absolute idiot. Windows always seems to be stable, at least I’ve never had issues for a long time.

max@feddit.nl on 26 Feb 2024 06:30 collapse

Let’s be honest though. I’m a big fan of Linux/Unix systems, but if (not saying that’s necessarily the case) a normal user can break their installation by being a normal user, it’s not suited for normal users.
Windows is a pain in the ass imo, but pretty hard for a normal user to break in my experience.

Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works on 26 Feb 2024 02:21 next collapse

Lol, I see what you did here.

I may start doing this as well… I’m SO tired of every post about Windows being flooded with Linux supremecists.

laverabe@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 15:07 next collapse

I use both. Can confirm windows breaks 10x more than Debian stable.

Tbird83ii@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 Feb 2024 00:15 collapse

Do you know what BSOD is?

systemglitch@lemmy.world on 27 Feb 2024 04:08 collapse

Yeah, and it’s been about ten years or more since I last saw one on my PC.

RIPandTERROR@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 16:31 next collapse

That is absolutely hilarious. Good guy malware swooping in and fixing people’s shit? Any chance you have a link?

RIPandTERROR@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 16:34 collapse

Gemini claims it doesn’t exist when I prompted it for finding more info, so for the sake of testing out Gemini’s capability of searching I’m doubly interested if this exists.<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/588a5e0e-00f2-4228-a541-042e1422ad45.png">

Pantherina@feddit.de on 25 Feb 2024 16:36 next collapse

Why would you send an image to gemini instead of just text? Annoy Google?

RIPandTERROR@sh.itjust.works on 25 Feb 2024 18:35 collapse

Testing it’s ability to transcribe photo and recognize content

ours@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 19:03 collapse

Someone, somewhere is wondering why his CAPTCHAs are getting odly specific.

Alexstarfire@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 18:48 next collapse

Well, the US government has at least twice broken into infected US devices and fixed things. IDK about installing OpenWRT but the stories have some overlap

oatscoop@midwest.social on 25 Feb 2024 21:52 collapse
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works on 26 Feb 2024 02:20 next collapse

Oh cool, I guess I don’t need to play all my favorite games… Most is just as good right?

You Linux Uber fans are too much sometimes.

fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works on 26 Feb 2024 19:12 collapse

Sometimes people just don’t think about that people can have different wants and needs.

All, literally every game I want to play runs great in Linux, and my hobbies of self hosting, development, homelabbing, and data hoarding are all leagues better on it.

That doesn’t make a good choice for my friend that only logs on to play destiny 2. It also doesn’t matter why, to my friend, its a bad choice. It could be the devs are chained and lashed by Microsoft for even mentioning Linux in the office, but what matters to someonethatt only wants to play that game with friends is whether it works.

AProfessional@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 20:16 collapse

Steam has ~30 million users per day. Windows has over 1.5 billion installs.

Gamers really over value themselves.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 26 Feb 2024 15:57 collapse

And people will only notice because the ads stopped coming, because their system got secure and stable…

And they’ll still complain about THAT, for sure…

jbk@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Feb 2024 16:11 next collapse

So according to the official page on Hotpatching (without any trackers like in the article), this reminds me of kpatch. I guess Microsoft really wants to spend the effort of making that work. Isn’t kpatch not really supported (without $$$) by many larger distros since it’s prone to break easily?

jbk@discuss.tchncs.de on 25 Feb 2024 16:15 next collapse

I found more info: Microsoft SQL Server Engine already does hot patching and I guess the same way will be used in other MS apps: techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/…/849700

squozenode@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 00:08 collapse

Isn’t the concept of kernel live-patching just “wait until the kernel’s not using that module, and slip in anupdatesd version”

scv@discuss.online on 26 Feb 2024 02:30 collapse

I don’t know about Windows, on Linux it’s at the function level, and some cases are tricky.

uis@lemm.ee on 25 Feb 2024 16:29 next collapse

Haven’t everyone install linux yet?

myxi@feddit.nl on 25 Feb 2024 17:24 next collapse

[—]

vousdew@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 17:50 next collapse

Can’t tell if you’re trolling or actually that stupid.

  • Event viewer does exactly what the label says, let’s you view things. In this case, logs.
  • Is your computer on, we won’t even touch the fact that’s 100% connected to a network, then it’s vulnerable.

Let’s assuming you’re just trolling though.

myxi@feddit.nl on 26 Feb 2024 15:55 collapse

I actually meant Group Policy Editor. Sometimes I make mistakes like that. I will not dive into how precisely I made the mistake.

Coming to your second point, of course it is vulnerable, but I meant it in a practical sense. I am not here to waste time debating, so I am leaving it at that.

sugartits@lemmy.world on 25 Feb 2024 19:47 collapse

My Windows98SE box isn’t getting updates anymore.

Do you have a fix for that?

SomeGuy69@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 00:00 next collapse

I used to want this, but the latest updates of windows have all been so buggy. I’d prefer to not have this shit happen in mid usage. They once fucked up the search by accident and it was disrupting enough to my workflow until I found ways to disable the search being a default web search.

MIDItheKID@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 04:04 collapse

It looks like it’s just security updates, not feature updates. So I would take this as a win. If a 0-day is discovered, being able to update systems to fix it without a restart is fantastic. I know plenty of people who avoid restarting their computer if they see the update icon in their system tray. If we are talking security, these people could be leaving themselves vulnerable for days/weeks. Being able to push security patches without restarts is a big win.

Koffiato@lemmy.ml on 26 Feb 2024 00:10 next collapse

This was the pipe dream for many many years now. Not the first time MS is talking about it either.

It’s a thing in the Linux world and it’s just too costly to support and therefore most user facing distros outright don’t support it.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 26 Feb 2024 15:56 collapse

Orlly?

I’ve been using Linux desktop for a good 20 years now. All debian based distros (loads of them) do, all redhead based ones do, and those two together likely comprise the majority of distros.

I can’t remember the last time I rebooted my desktop (or servers, for what it matters) beyond a power outage in the office

fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works on 26 Feb 2024 19:02 next collapse

Do you have kernel live patching enabled?

AProfessional@lemmy.world on 26 Feb 2024 20:11 collapse

Your updates both do not apply kernel updates but also aren’t applying in general unless you are restarting all apps, services, and sessions. Basically just reboot.

Only servers administrated well do online updates correctly.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 26 Feb 2024 15:13 collapse

So in other words yet another thing that Linux already had for the past 20 years? Go on like this and in 50 years Microsoft might actually have a capable operating system.

Dump windows, Install Linux, stop paying Microsoft money for badly designed crap that will spy on you.