It’s frustrating that we knew he was full of shit when he was saying it. And now the evidence is showing it is bullshit. And it’s like it doesn’t even matter.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 08 May 23:46
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X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
How is what you quoted “standing up” to anything? Am I missing something?
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 00:42
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Am I missing something?
Yes. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you might have taken the quoted text and the link as being the same thing, when they are 2 separate things.
The X link is a post from X Global Government Affairs regarding this Turkey censorship situation. Some of the text from it:
X received an order to restrict access in Türkiye to the account of the now-detained Mayor of Istanbul. While we have followed Türkiye’s order regarding the account, we strongly disagree with the order and are challenging the order in court. In the spirit of full transparency, we are sharing the court order and our legal filing below.
The order was received from the Turkish Information and Communication Technologies Authority. These orders require X to block content in Türkiye that is available in the rest of the world.
Lack of compliance with these orders can lead to severe sanctions, including throttling of the entire platform in Türkiye. X complied with the court order while we challenge the order in court because we believe keeping the platform accessible in Türkiye is vital to supporting freedom of expression and access to information, particularly following natural disasters and other emergencies.
In the spirit of upholding due process, we carefully review all the requests under the local law. X has been and will continue to object to removal orders including government requests in courts to protect users when those requests do not align with principles of free expression, due process, or other local laws.
Basically the government threatened X to censor that account in Turkey or face severe punishment, like many censorship-happy governments have done lately. X complied but are taking them to court over their order, like they have done with all the other censorship-happy governments who have done the same thing.
BlueSky banned the politicians account there btw. They aren’t challenging the order in court.
They know they can do that sort of shit because they hold the power. They can blatantly and unconvincingly lie, their followers will regurgitate those lies, but neither of them really believe them. They are just posturing and having fun with words, just like fascists always have done.
Never believe that [fascists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The [fascists] have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 08 May 23:05
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X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
Jake Solomon left Firaxis in 2023. Don’t know if there is anything in the pipeline over there.
(And if there is anything, please let i be Apocalypse 2.0)
Sometimes cross-instance links might not work as intended, no idea why.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 08 May 23:53
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He would get blocked there because BlueSky will comply with legal requests as well, because if they don’t they will face criminal charges and/or massive fines. BlueSky, being a platform that loves censorship, would not challenge the legal order in court like X are either.
Even fediverse instance owners would be forced to block his accounts under threat of fines and/or prosecution.
edit: BlueSky have already blocked his account lol
Yes, but that’s not a dictator fetish (ok, it is, but it is a different one)…
He knows dictators are a bad thing to be, because he calls the people he doesn’t like one. But he never calls out actual dictators, he actually makes deals with them and helps them. That says he likes and respects that model of governance, even if he knows it is deeply unpopular and deeply disrespects functioning democracies. And uses it to rouse his stans.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 08 May 23:43
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X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
X complied with a legal order, and are challenging it in court just like they do every other time a government orders something like this to be done.
Put the pitchfork away.
DarkFuture@lemmy.world
on 08 May 17:18
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Nazi platform.
Make sure to stop clicking on Nazi links when people post them. No matter how bad you want to see someone “prank” someone or cry about their perceived persecution.
We need to stop making a Nazi platform important enough that it hurts democratic politicians when they lose access because of the Nazi in charge of said platform.
rottingleaf@lemmy.world
on 08 May 19:00
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Ekrem is Kemalist, which is very similar to a literal Nazi, but in the current world I’ll even agree he’s kinda better than many other variants.
muhyb@programming.dev
on 08 May 19:09
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You might find this interesting, because Erdogan is also a Kemalist (at least some variation of it).
Ah yes, I can see how you can see the guy who used religion all his political career to his advantage and shat on the constitution just so he can stay in power longer, as a Kemalist.
/s
rottingleaf@lemmy.world
on 09 May 07:33
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As I said, it’s a baseline for Turkey. Relative to that baseline he’s almost an Islamist, yep. Relative to it he was also a liberal initially.
LupertEverett@lemmy.world
on 09 May 07:48
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Like legit, the guy hates Ataturk’s guts, yet these idiots claim that he is a Kemalist.
I want what they are smoking. Must be some pretty good shit.
rottingleaf@lemmy.world
on 09 May 05:07
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I know, it’s basically impossible to be a politician in Turkey and not some kind of that.
If you look at most Sunni societies, their political ideology optimal point is simple - behead all the infidels, take all that belongs to Muslims, and that’d be all that Muslims claim, and institute Sharia law.
Young Turks and Kemal managed to transform that into a viable nationalist ideology. To be centered on Turks instead of Sunnis.
No secular regime in a Middle-Eastern Muslim country after them has managed to achieve that.
So - Erdogan’s Muslim part in ideology is about equating Muslim and Ottoman, not about returning to the initially described system.
It is from a point of view of political science. He hates Ataturk but that doesn’t prevent him to use his methods.
LupertEverett@lemmy.world
on 09 May 06:35
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Ah yes, the guy who had no ill will towards anybody, tried to unify people to the best of his ability, and provided cheaper food for the poor… is a Nazi!
Holy shit, the sheer stupidity needed to come up with such a take!
Ah yes, the guy who had no ill will towards anybody, tried to unify people to the best of his ability, and provided cheaper food for the poor… is a Nazi!
You mean Mustafa Kemal had no ill will when his army was massacring 200k Armenians in Kars and further during Turkish-Armenian war of 1920? Or burning Smyrna with its inhabitants?
The best argument in favor of any pessimism about future is how Westerners conditioned to know that Hitler is bad, very bad, praise Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. BTW, in kinda similar terms to the popular praise of Hitler in English-speaking countries before the war.
As a person he was absolutely not better, however he was intelligent enough to pick achievable goals.
not my job and this is not the place to waste my time providing a textbook-level of evidence of what you could have researched yourself if you were willing to be persuaded, but ask your History teacher if you’re seriously asking.
gradual@lemmings.world
on 08 May 22:42
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If you can’t answer him that’s all you have to say.
Don’t do this rigamarole of “do your own research to justify why other people use their words.”
I know what a Nazi is
However people often misuse it with people they disagree with. Elon already had a lot of hate before that.
Can a Jew be a Nazi? Are Kanye a Nazi?
People with their beehive mentality, just echoes being what other people says. Can’t have simple discussions without people trying crucify you for asking questions.
The Roman salute has not origin in ancient history.
It was formalized by Gabriele D’Annunzio, a sick fascist poet and writer, as a salute for his proto-fascist troops with which he occupied Fiume in modern-day Croatia, having been inspired this painting.
So yea, the roman salute is a fascist salute, invented by a fascist, for a fascist occurrence and to call it roman is a disservice to Rome and history in general.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 08 May 23:38
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Tim Waltz, one of the people vigorously calling Musk a Nazi for doing that action, is on video doing the exact same “salute”:
simple asked what the difference was and if there was anything substantial. Jews and other still use x or Tesla , people are being aggressive if you talk about it.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 08 May 22:36
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As a serious answer, Musk is into modern variants of eugenics and some scary techno-authoritarian stuff he shares with Peter Theil and other Silicon Valley royalty.
Maybe he’s a techno-neonazi? That’s just semantics.
His alleged Nazi salute is indeed kind of a red herring. But “Nazi” is an reasonable enough descriptor for his beliefs.
WetBeardHairs@lemmy.world
on 08 May 22:55
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Note how Jin, the Nazi Defender (not a Nazi themselves, they just defend people who are justifiably called Nazis) won’t respond to your answer.
One feature from Reddit I liked was the ability to tag people. Or maybe that was the reddit enhancement suite. But Jin would’ve earned himself a big red “Nazi Defender” tag.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 08 May 23:04
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Nah its much simpler label than that.
“Troll”
The topic doesn’t matter, it more about fishing for provocation. In this case I couldn’t help myself, but… you know, don’t feed the trolls.
stopdropandprole@lemmy.world
on 08 May 23:05
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you can also tag people on Lemmy, or at least I can. look for the About User menu then “Add Tag” or “Tag user” from their profile
T00l_shed@lemmy.world
on 08 May 23:35
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One of these things is not like the other
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 08 May 23:53
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Tim Waltz does not have eugenics-adjacent beliefs.
Also, I think you may have misinterpreted what “red herring” means.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 08 May 23:55
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I didn’t misinterpret that, I was simply pointing out that it wasn’t a nazi salute unless you also think Tim Waltz is a nazi.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world
on 09 May 00:04
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Yes notice the crisp snappy way waltz did it? With fingers together, and twice so there is no way to doubt what it was? Ohhh wait sorry that was elons.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 00:06
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hahahaha the mental gymnastics is gold medal worthy.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world
on 09 May 00:07
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Yes, the way you say two, very very different things are the same is certainly gold medal worthy mental gymnastics. Well said.
…he just wanted to send out a message of hope and support to nazis round the world by siegheiling twice on stage behind the seal of the United States…yeah…
No, that is not how words or logic or anything really works. But it is unsurprising that a fascist like you wouldn’t know that, considering you don’t really care about words.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 10:13
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🤣 I like how you guys think people care when you call them fascists, Nazis, etc.
Some people wouldn’t know a Nazi if he was sending people to camps without trial, trying to outlaw the political opposition, fomenting a cult of personality, launching coups, oppressing the most vulnerable people, ratcheting up racist attacks, and threatening to attack Denmark.
You’ve called the good guys here the nazis and let the actual authoritarians off the hook scott-free.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world
on 08 May 23:33
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You’ve called the good guys here the nazis and let the actual authoritarians off the hook scott-free.
Only if you ignore that Twitter is owned by a nazi, and that the person above didn’t say anything about letting, the authoritarian regime in turkey off the hook.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 00:05
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Only if you ignore that Twitter is owned by a nazi
It’s not.
T00l_shed@lemmy.world
on 09 May 00:10
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T00l_shed@lemmy.world
on 09 May 00:14
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No? I don’t like lots of people, and only the far right fascist supporters, and nazis, and nazi simps I call nazis. I didn’t call elon, Hitler. So go stroke your ego elsewhere
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 00:28
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You: “I don’t just call anyone I don’t like nazi or hitler!”
Also you: proceeds to call everyone I don’t like nazi or hitler
T00l_shed@lemmy.world
on 09 May 00:32
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Also you: *proceeds to call everyone I don’t like nazi or hitler
The fucking kind of mental gymnastics are those? Jfc try harder buddy.
Yes I call nazis nazis, but not everyone I dislike is a nazi, nor do I call them that hahaha.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 00:57
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Yes I call nazis nazis
The problem is that the people you’re calling nazis aren’t nazis. That’s where the meme comes from. That’s why being called a nazi doesn’t bother anyone anymore. That’s why actual nazis are getting more and more confident and open in their beliefs - because when everyone is called a nazi, actual nazi’s can operate out in the open and no one will listen when they’re called out for actually being a nazi.
Why would anyone bother having a conversation with someone like you who lies about the tiniest most pedantic details? You could’ve easily conceded the point that they didn’t call Elon Hitler but nope, gotta add “nazi or hitler” to make sure I’m right! Any conversation with someone like you is going to be fruitless and it’s pretty obvious you need to touch grass.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 10:18
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I don’t care when people who call everyone Nazis for daring to think illegal immigrants should be deported, for example, call me a Nazi. No skin off my back. In fact it’s a good thing, as it just turns more and more people away from the far left. This behaviour is the main reason why the democrats were blown off the map in the presidential election. Normal people have just had enough of the far lefts never ending name calling and bullshit. The more you do it the worse you look, so keep going :)
I know they would comply just as well, as I stated in another comment, because they are a private platform, but actually in this case the presence on Bluesky of the Imamoglu account in perfect condition with 129K followers proves that something else must be the case here.
Also, X didn’t give a shit about complying in Brazil.
Nah, Nazi platform does nazi stuff, it’s that simple.
You can come down the mirror now.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 10:31
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Bluesky blocked his account in turkey btw, just like X did. Bluesky have made no mention of challenging the legal request in court like X have though.
Iirc the Brazil situation was the first time anything like this had happened since Musk bought Twitter. They definitely didn’t handle it correctly, but they’ve clearly learned since then. Now they comply with legal requests and challenge them through the courts. Would you prefer they just folded every time and didn’t challenge, like all the others? Like Bluesky?
Good work on calling me a nazi though! I did nazi that coming!!
The fact that Bluesky didn’t post about it doesn’t mean they did not challenge.
Also, a file on Google Drive is not a petition submitted. There is nowhere a letter signed or stamped as received.
You know you can pay a law firm for drafting a letter and then not send it, right?
There are too many conclusions you are coming to without knowing the actual facts.
I judge what happened for sure.
And for sure both of them complied, officially asked to or not, to obscuring a political prisoner’s account (and dozens of other activists as well, by the way).
Also, regarding X, this is old news, from the end of March.
Also, are you X? Like, the platform, its personification?
Because if you are not, then I didn’t call you a nazi. You can go clean your snot from your neckbeard.
Just do like I do. I blocked x.com quite a while back now. Along with several other trash sites like it.
DancingBear@midwest.social
on 08 May 23:15
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I used to use it to find out information on local emergencies and stuff but now you have to log in and they don’t allow search or whatever so I never use it… I have a few accounts there but haven’t used them since at least x if not before I should probably mass delete my accounts there next time something happens
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 08 May 23:03
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A little context might have been nice, but then the musk hate and conspiracy theories would be harder to justify:
X restricted Imamoglu’s account in Turkey complying with a legal request by Turkish authorities who cited national security and public order concerns.
Yeah, he is forced to, but just to be clear, he will bitch for a month if this happens for thoroughly legitimate reasons in any country that is a functioning democracy e.g. UK, Brazil, Biden US, Germany, South Africa…
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 08 May 23:17
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Just like they have done and are doing in basically every country that makes legal demands like this.
Edit: the dogpiling in here is insane.
I post a link to a tweet where X spell out that they were FORCED by the Turkish government to ban the account, and that they are challenging the order in court because they don’t believe in this violation of free speech……and I get downvoted?
Oh thats funny because they refused to take down the Sydney stabbing videos, despite being told to for months. They gave us a half arsed geoblock for Australia while still allowing the offending material to circulate.
And Musk will routinely attack free speech, he does it all the time on X to users e.g. plane tracker guy
Edit: Ah you’re a rightist troll trying to pretend Musk isnt a Nazi, I see.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 11:29
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They took the stabbing videos down in Australia. They fought against removing them from the rest of the world saying that the Australian “safety commissioner” doesn’t have the jurisdiction to do that.
Complying with the incumbent to silence opposition is a political decision. Erdoğan is known for silencing and jailing opposition and anyone with knowledge of Turkish politics is aware of this
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 02:15
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Complying with the incumbent to silence opposition is a political decision.
No it’s not. Did you even read the linked X Global Affairs post?
Lack of compliance with these orders can lead to severe sanctions, including throttling of the entire platform in Türkiye. X complied with the court order while we challenge the order in court because we believe keeping the platform accessible in Türkiye is vital to supporting freedom of expression and access to information, particularly following natural disasters and other emergencies.
It’s not a political decision, it’s a legal one. If they don’t comply then the entire site can legally be banned from the entire country, for example.
Yes I read that and hold that this decision is still highly political. Technically X can choose to simply not exist in Turkey. Obviously they won’t do this and Erdogan knows this, profit is king. This doesn’t change the fact that they are choosing to cow to threats by a dictator. Legal decisions are political and ahve political implications. Who do you think wrote those laws?
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 09 May 03:32
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So you think that instead of complying while fighting the legal order and being able to tell users that what is happening, you think that they should pull the entire site from the country?
They aren’t “choosing to bow to threats by a dictator” - they are following the law, and fighting the legal order through the courts.
Come on mate lol. They’re doing the absolute most user and free speech friendly thing they can possibly do given the situation.
Question - what would you have done in this situation if you owned and ran X?
I am well aware it isn’t a logical business decision, I just don’t care
Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world
on 08 May 23:14
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He needs a Blu Sky account ASAP
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 08 May 23:23
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BlueSky would ban his account as well. It was banned in Turkey because of a legal request by the Turkish government. If they don’t comply there are huge legal consequences.
Would BlueSky, the huge fans of censorship that they are, challenge the decision in court like X are though? Not a chance.
Edit: seems bluesky have already banned his account lol
There needs to be some sort of unblockable self-hosted broadcast system where users can spin up their own cloud hosted instance by entering a username and password and choosing one of hundreds of providers for a small fee, or self hosted instance as quickly and easily as installing a single app on an android phone. These with act just like websites, but with a common protocol and API so they can communicate with each other and with clients with no specific add-on. Then, Turkey or whoever could block Turkish ISPs from fulfilling that request, but anyone else could still access the instance in their client as long as their own instance doesn’t block it.
Hostable on a phone, a windows PC, Linux PC, self-hosted VM, cloud rented VM, whatever. And easily portable from one place to another.
Sure, uptime and reliability would suffer, EG when PC is turned off, but that’s acceptable to gain resilience against ISP, central services like google and Facebook and twitter, and government interference.
I have designed a system to do this, using very reliable existing protocols and programming frameworks, I just don’t have the time or money to invest to make it happen.
I think the flow of information has to be fundamentally different.
In mine, people only receive data directly from people they know and trust in real life. This makes scaling easy, and makes it impossible for centralized entities to broadcast propaganda to everyone at once.
I described it at freetheinter.net if you’re interested
Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world
on 09 May 08:07
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Maybe I’m misunderstanding, isn’t that basically what signal does?
Hosting what they call a capsule would be easy and extremely lightweight and I could surf from an index using an app called Lagrange, available on F-Droid.
Can you explain how your system differs?
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone
on 09 May 06:57
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threaded - newest
Free speech absolutism at work
Fascist speech absolutism at work
To Der Elon that’s the same thing.
It’s frustrating that we knew he was full of shit when he was saying it. And now the evidence is showing it is bullshit. And it’s like it doesn’t even matter.
x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
“full of shit” = “standing up for free speech against governments that are trying to censor political opponents” ?
How is what you quoted “standing up” to anything? Am I missing something?
Yes. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you might have taken the quoted text and the link as being the same thing, when they are 2 separate things.
The X link is a post from X Global Government Affairs regarding this Turkey censorship situation. Some of the text from it:
Basically the government threatened X to censor that account in Turkey or face severe punishment, like many censorship-happy governments have done lately. X complied but are taking them to court over their order, like they have done with all the other censorship-happy governments who have done the same thing.
BlueSky banned the politicians account there btw. They aren’t challenging the order in court.
They know they can do that sort of shit because they hold the power. They can blatantly and unconvincingly lie, their followers will regurgitate those lies, but neither of them really believe them. They are just posturing and having fun with words, just like fascists always have done.
Do you know how legal requests work?
No one on X should expect anything better
If they’re still on Xitter it means they approve of this
People on X expected what is actually happening, not what people in here think is happening (and hope it is).
This is what most people on X expect, which is to fight for free speech on X.
One more reason to not put all of your social media eggs in the same basket.
I saw the headline and for a split second got excited for X-Com news. Instead, I got xitter.
Honestly whomever owns the ip these days should do something about it. Also glad to see I’m not the only one hired wired for the game franchise
Jake Solomon left Firaxis in 2023. Don’t know if there is anything in the pipeline over there.
(And if there is anything, please let i be Apocalypse 2.0)
Come on enforcer 2 or gtfo
He should go to Bluesky and get blocked there as well.
Why would he get blocked there?
You can check here >> programming.dev/post/28713862
For some reason that post does show up for me, but I can’t vote on it, because “it’s been removed”. The crosspost offers a 400 error. Really weird.
Try this one: feddit.nl/post/32346719
That works… how strange.
Sometimes cross-instance links might not work as intended, no idea why.
He would get blocked there because BlueSky will comply with legal requests as well, because if they don’t they will face criminal charges and/or massive fines. BlueSky, being a platform that loves censorship, would not challenge the legal order in court like X are either.
Even fediverse instance owners would be forced to block his accounts under threat of fines and/or prosecution.
edit: BlueSky have already blocked his account lol
bsky.app/profile/ssg.dev/post/3lmuz3nr62k26
bluesky will block too.
I was gonna say. Dude better go to the actual fediverse if he wants a reliable platform that wont be instantly taken down again.
Xitler.
The speech free platform continues to remove speech.
You can speak freely about whatever suits elon :-)
You said it, it’s not a free speech platform, it’s a speech free platform.
X also are challenging the legal order in court: x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
I thought they didn’t block political figures… Guess the muskrat just meant the figures he agrees with…
They comply with local laws and legal orders, like the one that forced them to do this:
X also are challenging the legal order in court: x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
Seems like a good opportunity to frame Musk and Erdogan as allies.
You’re saying it’s not related to musk’s political views?
No. How did you reach that conclusion?
Because framing is usually done in bad faith, when i read that i read ‘they arent allies, the media wants you to think that’
Not necessarily. I just meant in the context they provide for the event.
No, it’s not. It’s related to the legal takedown request that they were given.
Memba when Elon Fuck said it would be a town square where everyone can speak out?
Only people that Stinky agrees with.
Anyone still on Xitter is part of the problem.
Delete it.
Has Musk ever met a dictator he doesn’t like?
.
I think elon called Lula a dictator…and called the UK a dictatorship. That makes it even more obvious what he’s doing.
He also said Canada is ‘not a real country’ so…
Yes, but that’s not a dictator fetish (ok, it is, but it is a different one)… He knows dictators are a bad thing to be, because he calls the people he doesn’t like one. But he never calls out actual dictators, he actually makes deals with them and helps them. That says he likes and respects that model of governance, even if he knows it is deeply unpopular and deeply disrespects functioning democracies. And uses it to rouse his stans.
x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
X complied with a legal order, and are challenging it in court just like they do every other time a government orders something like this to be done.
Put the pitchfork away.
Nazi platform.
Make sure to stop clicking on Nazi links when people post them. No matter how bad you want to see someone “prank” someone or cry about their perceived persecution.
We need to stop making a Nazi platform important enough that it hurts democratic politicians when they lose access because of the Nazi in charge of said platform.
Ekrem is Kemalist, which is very similar to a literal Nazi, but in the current world I’ll even agree he’s kinda better than many other variants.
You might find this interesting, because Erdogan is also a Kemalist (at least some variation of it).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamokemalism
Ah yes, I can see how you can see the guy who used religion all his political career to his advantage and shat on the constitution just so he can stay in power longer, as a Kemalist.
/s
As I said, it’s a baseline for Turkey. Relative to that baseline he’s almost an Islamist, yep. Relative to it he was also a liberal initially.
Like legit, the guy hates Ataturk’s guts, yet these idiots claim that he is a Kemalist.
I want what they are smoking. Must be some pretty good shit.
I know, it’s basically impossible to be a politician in Turkey and not some kind of that.
If you look at most Sunni societies, their political ideology optimal point is simple - behead all the infidels, take all that belongs to Muslims, and that’d be all that Muslims claim, and institute Sharia law.
Young Turks and Kemal managed to transform that into a viable nationalist ideology. To be centered on Turks instead of Sunnis.
No secular regime in a Middle-Eastern Muslim country after them has managed to achieve that.
So - Erdogan’s Muslim part in ideology is about equating Muslim and Ottoman, not about returning to the initially described system.
Of course, it does not have the same goal. But it uses the same system.
The dude is trying to delete Mustafa Kemal’s name everywhere, claiming he is a kemalist is the equivelant of calling Stalin a nazi,
It is from a point of view of political science. He hates Ataturk but that doesn’t prevent him to use his methods.
Ah yes, the guy who had no ill will towards anybody, tried to unify people to the best of his ability, and provided cheaper food for the poor… is a Nazi!
Holy shit, the sheer stupidity needed to come up with such a take!
You mean Mustafa Kemal had no ill will when his army was massacring 200k Armenians in Kars and further during Turkish-Armenian war of 1920? Or burning Smyrna with its inhabitants?
The best argument in favor of any pessimism about future is how Westerners conditioned to know that Hitler is bad, very bad, praise Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. BTW, in kinda similar terms to the popular praise of Hitler in English-speaking countries before the war.
As a person he was absolutely not better, however he was intelligent enough to pick achievable goals.
I hear often Nazi this Nazi that? I think it has lost meaning. Can you explain what Nazi is? Vs Nazi from like WW2?
*neo-nazi
Great movie
If you perform a Nazi salute, you’re a Nazi.
Musk performed TWO Nazi salutes on national television during a presidential inauguration.
Musk owns X.
Anymore questions? Do I need to illustrate with crayons?
Some would say a Roman salute 🫡 So anything else substantial? That can’t be interpreted as something else?
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/dfb867be-1f7f-42c4-a19c-29dfa1b08c38.gif">
But anything else? that’s what I’m asking
not my job and this is not the place to waste my time providing a textbook-level of evidence of what you could have researched yourself if you were willing to be persuaded, but ask your History teacher if you’re seriously asking.
If you can’t answer him that’s all you have to say.
Don’t do this rigamarole of “do your own research to justify why other people use their words.”
Then why did you reply to me?
I know what a Nazi is However people often misuse it with people they disagree with. Elon already had a lot of hate before that.
Can a Jew be a Nazi? Are Kanye a Nazi?
People with their beehive mentality, just echoes being what other people says. Can’t have simple discussions without people trying crucify you for asking questions.
Here’s a question: why don’t you take their advice seriously instead of being so sensitive to their manners?
There’s plenty:
forbes.com/…/musk-retweets-hitler-didnt-murder-mi…
But this is the most I am willing to engage at the moment with an obvious troll
Italian here, Roman actually.
The Roman salute has not origin in ancient history.
It was formalized by Gabriele D’Annunzio, a sick fascist poet and writer, as a salute for his proto-fascist troops with which he occupied Fiume in modern-day Croatia, having been inspired this painting.
So yea, the roman salute is a fascist salute, invented by a fascist, for a fascist occurrence and to call it roman is a disservice to Rome and history in general.
Tim Waltz, one of the people vigorously calling Musk a Nazi for doing that action, is on video doing the exact same “salute”:
youtu.be/XteSVPzL3fk
You’ll agree Tim Waltz is a Nazi, I assume?
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simple asked what the difference was and if there was anything substantial. Jews and other still use x or Tesla , people are being aggressive if you talk about it.
As a serious answer, Musk is into modern variants of eugenics and some scary techno-authoritarian stuff he shares with Peter Theil and other Silicon Valley royalty.
Maybe he’s a techno-neonazi? That’s just semantics.
His alleged Nazi salute is indeed kind of a red herring. But “Nazi” is an reasonable enough descriptor for his beliefs.
I can appreciate this is reply, thanks 👍
Note how Jin, the Nazi Defender (not a Nazi themselves, they just defend people who are justifiably called Nazis) won’t respond to your answer.
One feature from Reddit I liked was the ability to tag people. Or maybe that was the reddit enhancement suite. But Jin would’ve earned himself a big red “Nazi Defender” tag.
Nah its much simpler label than that.
“Troll”
The topic doesn’t matter, it more about fishing for provocation. In this case I couldn’t help myself, but… you know, don’t feed the trolls.
you can also tag people on Lemmy, or at least I can. look for the About User menu then “Add Tag” or “Tag user” from their profile
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Hmm… I definitely don’t see an About user menu or Add Tag or Tag User on their profile. Maybe it has something to do with your lemmy browser.
That must be specific to whatever app you are using. It isn’t in the default ones.
Tim Waltz did the exact same salute btw. The same Tim Waltz that says that Trump 100% did a nazi salute.
youtu.be/XteSVPzL3fk
One of these things is not like the other
Tim Waltz does not have eugenics-adjacent beliefs.
Also, I think you may have misinterpreted what “red herring” means.
I didn’t misinterpret that, I was simply pointing out that it wasn’t a nazi salute unless you also think Tim Waltz is a nazi.
Yes notice the crisp snappy way waltz did it? With fingers together, and twice so there is no way to doubt what it was? Ohhh wait sorry that was elons.
hahahaha the mental gymnastics is gold medal worthy.
Yes, the way you say two, very very different things are the same is certainly gold medal worthy mental gymnastics. Well said.
Yes, you are indeed a real spectacle.
Yeah, elon’s not a nazi…
…he just wanted to send out a message of hope and support to nazis round the world by siegheiling twice on stage behind the seal of the United States…yeah…
All the nazis saw it as a nazi salute too! They were chuffed! Let’s not ignore his love and support for the afd, and antisemites on Twitter!
And you are bringing up a red herring (salutes) that doesn’t matter, because, well, I don’t know. But that’s the whole point of the saying.
Here’s the full, non cropped video. It’s around the 1:51 mark.
www.youtube.com/live/2wU99gDi_M8
It’s not around the 1:15 mark, it’s around the 2min mark. Same “salute” as Musk.
It really isn’t. It’s not even close. You said I had gold medal mental gymnastics, but you’ve just done another gold medal performance.
E: but thank you for pointing out my typo
His gesture is as much of a “Nazi salute” as Elon Musks. They’re either both Nazi salutes, or neither are. No other option.
No, they are nothing alike, at all.
You: "either everything is “A” or everything is “B”, there is no alternatives.
See how silly that is?
By “everything” you mean “these 2 specific examples”, don’t you?
🤣
No, that is not how words or logic or anything really works. But it is unsurprising that a fascist like you wouldn’t know that, considering you don’t really care about words.
🤣 I like how you guys think people care when you call them fascists, Nazis, etc.
It is funny how the video clearly disproves your lying claim.
The word ‘nazi’ has 100% lost its meaning.
Might as well just be saying “I don’t like this person or group of people because they disagree with me.”
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I guess we can start adding ‘nazi sympathizer’ to the list of terms that have lost their meaning.
Remember, you only have people like yourself to blame.
Some people wouldn’t know a Nazi if he was sending people to camps without trial, trying to outlaw the political opposition, fomenting a cult of personality, launching coups, oppressing the most vulnerable people, ratcheting up racist attacks, and threatening to attack Denmark.
Would Xi jinping be a Nazi?
He’s certainly a fascist autocrat
and if you absolutely must see something on twitter, use xcancel instead.
its a frontend for the same content, that doesn’t add views or ad revenue to twitter.
X are also challenging the legal order in court: x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
You’ve called the good guys here the nazis and let the actual authoritarians off the hook scott-free.
Only if you ignore that Twitter is owned by a nazi, and that the person above didn’t say anything about letting, the authoritarian regime in turkey off the hook.
It’s not.
It is.
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No? I don’t like lots of people, and only the far right fascist supporters, and nazis, and nazi simps I call nazis. I didn’t call elon, Hitler. So go stroke your ego elsewhere
You: “I don’t just call anyone I don’t like nazi or hitler!”
Also you: proceeds to call everyone I don’t like nazi or hitler
The fucking kind of mental gymnastics are those? Jfc try harder buddy.
Yes I call nazis nazis, but not everyone I dislike is a nazi, nor do I call them that hahaha.
The problem is that the people you’re calling nazis aren’t nazis. That’s where the meme comes from. That’s why being called a nazi doesn’t bother anyone anymore. That’s why actual nazis are getting more and more confident and open in their beliefs - because when everyone is called a nazi, actual nazi’s can operate out in the open and no one will listen when they’re called out for actually being a nazi.
Yes, musk is a nazi. That’s why I am calling a nazi. I’m not calling everyone, nor anyone a nazi, only nazis and their nazi ilk
Copy & paste my previous response here since you just repeated your previous post.
You’re still wrong though. So you got that going for you, which is nice.
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Why would anyone bother having a conversation with someone like you who lies about the tiniest most pedantic details? You could’ve easily conceded the point that they didn’t call Elon Hitler but nope, gotta add “nazi or hitler” to make sure I’m right! Any conversation with someone like you is going to be fruitless and it’s pretty obvious you need to touch grass.
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Smdh
This is who you’re wasting time arguing with everyone!
Do you really think that there is a difference between calling someone “hitler” and “nazi”? If so, what is the difference?
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You: Defending nazis.
You: Gets whiney when accused of being a nazi.
I don’t care when people who call everyone Nazis for daring to think illegal immigrants should be deported, for example, call me a Nazi. No skin off my back. In fact it’s a good thing, as it just turns more and more people away from the far left. This behaviour is the main reason why the democrats were blown off the map in the presidential election. Normal people have just had enough of the far lefts never ending name calling and bullshit. The more you do it the worse you look, so keep going :)
I can give you 10 people I don’t like and only one of them I know definitely to be a nazi.
That one guy is Elon Musk.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9b97ed70-44e9-42cd-af25-edd8888561c1.webp">
<img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/9d66217a-3f45-4af8-b321-395c0faa458f.webp">
Perhaps you have not been following the news. Elon Musk owns Twitter these days.
I know they would comply just as well, as I stated in another comment, because they are a private platform, but actually in this case the presence on Bluesky of the Imamoglu account in perfect condition with 129K followers proves that something else must be the case here.
Also, X didn’t give a shit about complying in Brazil.
Nah, Nazi platform does nazi stuff, it’s that simple.
You can come down the mirror now.
Bluesky blocked his account in turkey btw, just like X did. Bluesky have made no mention of challenging the legal request in court like X have though.
Iirc the Brazil situation was the first time anything like this had happened since Musk bought Twitter. They definitely didn’t handle it correctly, but they’ve clearly learned since then. Now they comply with legal requests and challenge them through the courts. Would you prefer they just folded every time and didn’t challenge, like all the others? Like Bluesky?
Good work on calling me a nazi though! I did nazi that coming!!
The fact that Bluesky didn’t post about it doesn’t mean they did not challenge.
Also, a file on Google Drive is not a petition submitted. There is nowhere a letter signed or stamped as received.
You know you can pay a law firm for drafting a letter and then not send it, right?
There are too many conclusions you are coming to without knowing the actual facts.
I judge what happened for sure.
And for sure both of them complied, officially asked to or not, to obscuring a political prisoner’s account (and dozens of other activists as well, by the way).
Also, regarding X, this is old news, from the end of March.
Also, are you X? Like, the platform, its personification? Because if you are not, then I didn’t call you a nazi. You can go clean your snot from your neckbeard.
Just do like I do. I blocked x.com quite a while back now. Along with several other trash sites like it.
I used to use it to find out information on local emergencies and stuff but now you have to log in and they don’t allow search or whatever so I never use it… I have a few accounts there but haven’t used them since at least x if not before I should probably mass delete my accounts there next time something happens
A little context might have been nice, but then the musk hate and conspiracy theories would be harder to justify:
They’re also challenging the legal request in court: x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
Yeah, he is forced to, but just to be clear, he will bitch for a month if this happens for thoroughly legitimate reasons in any country that is a functioning democracy e.g. UK, Brazil, Biden US, Germany, South Africa…
X is challenging the legal order in court btw:
x.com/GlobalAffairs/status/1920426409358455081
Just like they have done and are doing in basically every country that makes legal demands like this.
Edit: the dogpiling in here is insane.
I post a link to a tweet where X spell out that they were FORCED by the Turkish government to ban the account, and that they are challenging the order in court because they don’t believe in this violation of free speech……and I get downvoted?
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Oh thats funny because they refused to take down the Sydney stabbing videos, despite being told to for months. They gave us a half arsed geoblock for Australia while still allowing the offending material to circulate.
And Musk will routinely attack free speech, he does it all the time on X to users e.g. plane tracker guy
Edit: Ah you’re a rightist troll trying to pretend Musk isnt a Nazi, I see.
They took the stabbing videos down in Australia. They fought against removing them from the rest of the world saying that the Australian “safety commissioner” doesn’t have the jurisdiction to do that.
<img alt="" src="https://quokk.au/pictrs/image/eaf49bfa-9766-495d-a14b-023c9498b28a.webp">
Complying with the incumbent to silence opposition is a political decision. Erdoğan is known for silencing and jailing opposition and anyone with knowledge of Turkish politics is aware of this
No it’s not. Did you even read the linked X Global Affairs post?
It’s not a political decision, it’s a legal one. If they don’t comply then the entire site can legally be banned from the entire country, for example.
Yes I read that and hold that this decision is still highly political. Technically X can choose to simply not exist in Turkey. Obviously they won’t do this and Erdogan knows this, profit is king. This doesn’t change the fact that they are choosing to cow to threats by a dictator. Legal decisions are political and ahve political implications. Who do you think wrote those laws?
So you think that instead of complying while fighting the legal order and being able to tell users that what is happening, you think that they should pull the entire site from the country?
They aren’t “choosing to bow to threats by a dictator” - they are following the law, and fighting the legal order through the courts.
Come on mate lol. They’re doing the absolute most user and free speech friendly thing they can possibly do given the situation.
Question - what would you have done in this situation if you owned and ran X?
I would never stoop so low as to exploit the labor of others
What?
I am well aware it isn’t a logical business decision, I just don’t care
He needs a Blu Sky account ASAP
BlueSky would ban his account as well. It was banned in Turkey because of a legal request by the Turkish government. If they don’t comply there are huge legal consequences.
Would BlueSky, the huge fans of censorship that they are, challenge the decision in court like X are though? Not a chance.
Edit: seems bluesky have already banned his account lol
bsky.app/profile/ssg.dev/post/3lmuz3nr62k26
No, he needs a Mastodon account ASAP.
BlueSky has the exact same issue as Twitter, corporate control.
Elon following Turkish censorship
Expecting Bluesky to do the same in a short while.
Why?
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c22e28cd-f914-4eb7-a89e-afaf188fc0b2.png">
There needs to be some sort of unblockable self-hosted broadcast system where users can spin up their own cloud hosted instance by entering a username and password and choosing one of hundreds of providers for a small fee, or self hosted instance as quickly and easily as installing a single app on an android phone. These with act just like websites, but with a common protocol and API so they can communicate with each other and with clients with no specific add-on. Then, Turkey or whoever could block Turkish ISPs from fulfilling that request, but anyone else could still access the instance in their client as long as their own instance doesn’t block it.
Hostable on a phone, a windows PC, Linux PC, self-hosted VM, cloud rented VM, whatever. And easily portable from one place to another.
Sure, uptime and reliability would suffer, EG when PC is turned off, but that’s acceptable to gain resilience against ISP, central services like google and Facebook and twitter, and government interference.
I have designed a system to do this, using very reliable existing protocols and programming frameworks, I just don’t have the time or money to invest to make it happen.
Hah, I designed one as well!
I think the flow of information has to be fundamentally different.
In mine, people only receive data directly from people they know and trust in real life. This makes scaling easy, and makes it impossible for centralized entities to broadcast propaganda to everyone at once.
I described it at freetheinter.net if you’re interested
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, isn’t that basically what signal does?
Essentially, yes. Great point! I think it needs more features to function more like a social network (transitive topic-based sharing, for one)
I have discovered the Gemini protocol yesterday.
Hosting what they call a capsule would be easy and extremely lightweight and I could surf from an index using an app called Lagrange, available on F-Droid.
Can you explain how your system differs?
Free-speech absolutists gonna free-speech.
Just a friendly gesture among right-wing autocrats.
Free Car Insurance
He was prisoned on corruption charges before, which were just government funds being moved
But Elon has no clue why everyone thinks he’s a nazi
Well, that’s one way to get off the Nazi platform.
Reason # 3,487 to get off/stop paying attention to X, the ‘everything app’.