Gmail alternative: good idea to use personal domain+hosting?
from skamu@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 14:31
https://lemmy.world/post/25918381

I know there are alternatives like proton mail, tutamail, mailbox.org, etc… But what would be the issue if I create an email using my personal domain, stored in my hosting… maybe encryption? It seems that no-one even consider this option, but I am not sure why…

What would you suggest?

#technology

threaded - newest

zipkid@feddit.nl on 22 Feb 14:38 next collapse

<img alt="" src="https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/afab223a-4259-4f48-a34c-01d7fc0d3d91.jpeg"> there is a lot to hosting mail. Reading about it, like this book will educate you about all that’s involved.

skamu@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 14:42 next collapse

So, giving that I am an “average user”, do you think it would be bad to use my Bluehost unlimited storage? I have to pay that anyway, because I have couple of personal website there…

skamu@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 14:43 next collapse

Or maybe there are better solutions for hosting as well…

Object@sh.itjust.works on 22 Feb 14:49 next collapse

Do you have Bluehost web hosting plan? In that case, Bluehost would do the most heavy lifting regarding the derliverability. Email deliverability with big hosts like that shouldn’t be a problem.

zipkid@feddit.nl on 22 Feb 14:55 collapse

If you are willing to study the subject and become advanced at it, go for it. Otherwise, use an existing mail service, possibly with your own domain, but stay away from the mail protocols and requirements.

Zachariah@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 15:08 collapse

To give some context, the special edition of that book has a different title that hints at how very challenging it is to get it right when you host your own server.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/002693ea-7364-45c7-8fec-3205a313bf60.jpeg">

Typically, it’s much better to own a domain and pair it with FastMail or other reputable email provider.

originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com on 22 Feb 14:43 next collapse

grab a personal domain, setup smtp through proton then have your local mail client archive via imap

email is the only service i would never self-host directly.

skamu@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 14:45 next collapse

But why?

originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com on 22 Feb 14:48 collapse

email is incredibly complicated to host yourself successfully due to security, dns requirements. i have a pretty good handle on how to do it, but i havent since ~ 2015 because of the constant upkeep and challenges from the email ecosystem at large.

hddsx@lemmy.ca on 22 Feb 21:12 collapse

It’s not THAT bad. Certainly more complicated than before. I don’t think it requires that much upkeep. But this time around it took around 1 month to get it stable. Then I’m coasting for the time being.

But yes, unless you have a specific use case or strong desire, dont.

Email is so important. If you don’t have a stable way to do it and something goes down, you’re SOL and you are responsible

roofuskit@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 15:59 collapse

But why support the Nazi sympathizer?

originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com on 22 Feb 16:17 collapse

completely debatable if you dig into it, which i have.

roofuskit@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 16:33 collapse

Do enlighten us all.

originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com on 22 Feb 17:25 collapse

heres a good in-depth writeup of how a single tweet was blown up by people with an agenda, or a general failure to critically think about words:

https://medium.com/@ovenplayer/does-proton-really-support-trump-a-deeper-analysis-and-surprising-findings-aed4fee4305e

believe what you want to believe of course.

roofuskit@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 17:43 collapse

I can read his tweet. It makes absolutely no sense as his words are the literal opposite of what is really happening right in front of everyone’s eyes. The only explanation is he is sucking up to the party that is dismantling our democracy for his own financial gain.

Object@sh.itjust.works on 22 Feb 14:42 next collapse

Owning a domain for yourself and having a provider send/receive email on your behalf is a common choice, and it has its own benefits such as being able to migrate to other providers easily. As long as you renew your domain properly, it should be fine. Though do note that only you would use that domain, so anyone would know it was you who sent that email.

Owning a domain for yourself AND handling email sending/receiving can be challenging because there’s a chance your email gets filtered as spam, and the receiver doesn’t get what you sent. It’s also possible that your server goes down, and the email sent to you doesn’t arrive properly, though the email server usually try to send again a number of times before giving up.

If you are confident about setting a server, I can personally recommend Mailcow. As long as you set up SPF, DKIM, DMARC, it should pass most spam filter including Gmail. If you don’t want to deal with the potential headache, getting a provider to send/receive emails for you is a good choice too.

skamu@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 14:46 next collapse

Thanks for the clear explanation!!! 🙌

RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com on 22 Feb 15:09 collapse

I managed to get my mails through 95% of servers I’ve tried, and after evaluating the 5% that didn’t accept my mail, I just realized they can suck my man-tits. But maybe those 5% in your case might be recipients you value.

bluGill@fedia.io on 22 Feb 15:13 next collapse

I hosted my own for a while. We could never send to gmail though and they are saddly too important.

RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com on 22 Feb 15:18 collapse

That worked like a charm for me, but some strange German mall hoster demanded the blood of an unborn unicorn or something like that for it to work.

hddsx@lemmy.ca on 22 Feb 15:16 collapse

Which 5%

RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com on 22 Feb 15:19 collapse

German hoster united internet. The few people I know with those addresses receive a signal message.

IllNess@infosec.pub on 22 Feb 14:48 next collapse

When you say hosting do you mean yourself or a company?

If a company, I do this with Dreamhost. Email hosting comes with web hosting. I might as well.

It’s been a while since I last looked but I haven’t read anything about whether they read my mail or not. They definitely could though.

Also their email spam filters are not very good.

a887dcd7a@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 15:06 next collapse

You can point your domain on any hoster like mailbox.org. There are a lot of benefits at not hosting your own mailserver.

cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 22 Feb 15:21 next collapse

I’ve done this for years.

One of the benefits is that you can always just set up Gmail to pull from Pop and send with SMTP anytime if you’re not ready to give up Gmail yet and then just turn it off when you are without the need to announce a change in email.

zipkid@feddit.nl on 22 Feb 15:36 collapse

POP…!?

async_amuro@lemm.ee on 22 Feb 15:31 next collapse

I only dipped my toes into email hosting at a (terrible) job, the effort and complaints when things didn’t send/receive properly was too much.

That being said, personally I’ve used Gmail and I’m ready to get rid of it. I’ve got a domain I’d like to start using.

What’s everyone’s preference for provider? (I’m avoiding Proton Mail due to the CEO’s recent controversy)

themadcodger@kbin.earth on 22 Feb 15:42 next collapse

I moved over to fastmail and have been enjoying it, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who will tell me why it was the wrong choice.

NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works on 22 Feb 16:33 collapse

I’ve been happy with Fastmail.

The cost isn’t too bad at $5/mo per user.

The wildcard email thing is cool. You can use addresses like whatever@user.domain.tld to hand out to companies on the fly.

I may go back to hosting my own, but I have no complaints with Fastmail at all.

themadcodger@kbin.earth on 22 Feb 16:38 collapse

Oh I didn't even thinking about using wildcard addresses on the fly. I've been using the masked email addresses, but that obviously requires forethought.

kobra@lemm.ee on 22 Feb 16:37 collapse

Depends on your use case. I went with using a custom domain with my iCloud mail account. This lets me accept all messages sent to my custom domain.

So when I create accounts I just use that as the email address like this: lemmy@customDomain.com, bsky@customDomain.com, etc.

They all go to one mailbox but that’s all I need anyway. I’ve been happy with it.

hddsx@lemmy.ca on 22 Feb 20:23 collapse

Can you send mail through each email? I had a catch all forwarder before but it l had to reply with a different email, leading to occasional issues.

That’s basically the reason I have a server. I can set up forwarders between my wife and I, and if I need to send mail as kobra@domain.tld, I can just set up the alias and send it.

goofus@lemmy.today on 22 Feb 15:45 next collapse

I bought a domain name and got a web host. I set the index page to be blank and only use the web host for email. It works well. I still have gmail but try to move everything to my own domain email.

PetteriPano@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 15:47 next collapse

Get your own domain. Don’t host your own.

I’ve had the same domain on gmail, proton and now purelymail.

knobbysideup@sh.itjust.works on 22 Feb 15:49 next collapse

Running a mail infrastructure properly is a complex problem. I would not recommend it for most people. There’s a reason most companies outsource it these days.

7fb2adfb45bafcc01c80@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 16:35 next collapse

I’ve been using my own cloud-hosted SMTP relay and Zimbra server for over a decade now, and I love it.

There can be a bit of a learning curve, and in some cases sites won’t accept mail from cloud-hosted domains. I add those domains to a rule in sendmail that sends those domains through Amazon SES, and then they get accepted.

If you do go this route, just make sure that your recovery emails or 2FA for things like your registrar go somewhere else. If your cloud provider pulls the plug on you or something you don’t want to be stuck waiting for an email that can’t arrive.

I love the level of control that I have over my email and wouldn’t have it any other way.

tl;dr: steep learning curve, but worth it in the long run. Keep gmail as a recovery/2FA account or something, though.

astronaut_sloth@mander.xyz on 22 Feb 16:45 next collapse

Rolling your own email is a pain. That said, I use a VPS and host my own server with domain name and site for $5/month. Setting it up was a pain, but once you get all the records right so you’re not considered spam, it works really well. That said, I haven’t done anything with webmail; I strictly use IMAP and SMTP.

hddsx@lemmy.ca on 22 Feb 16:50 next collapse

Hi. I used to run a mail server around ten years ago and started running it again last year.

I have three receive mail domains and one mail domain that does both. It is /so/ much harder now.

  1. One domain that I let lapse for a few years is currently being impersonated by various servers.
  2. There are periodic and frequent attempts to login via compromised credentials
  3. Domain and IP reputation is a thing now.

The first challenge is to find a server that will let you host email but that isn’t on a spam list. Some spam lists you can apply to get off, some you can’t.

Then you have Microsoft. With Google you get thrown into spam. With Microsoft, your email just doesn’t make it. Their support is non existent.

I switched servers three times and took another month to get to Microsoft hosted inboxes. And your email is useless without Microsoft due to all the businesses that use Microsoft as a mail provider

And then if you use the mail app on iOS you quickly discover that you have to manually refresh because just on iOS, the mail app doesn’t support imap push or whatever it’s called.

I still haven’t found a good SELF hosted solution. There are third parties you can use but I don’t want to do it. There used to be a few popular solutions but development went off and on so some distros dropped it.

I’m still on Google and Apple calendar because I haven’t found a solution for that.

Of course there are solutions that encompass it all, but I am running postfix and dovecot and finally got it stable so I’m not running mailcow or whatever…

prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works on 22 Feb 17:52 next collapse

I bought a domain through cloud flare qand use them for dns, I use Fastmail as my mail service.

Fairly simple setup.

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Feb 18:14 collapse

Same, but with tuta for service. It works fine.

prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works on 22 Feb 18:30 collapse

I didn’t go with tuta or proton because they require a 3rd party plugin and part of my use case is playing triplea-game.org

sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works on 22 Feb 18:40 collapse

Does Proton bridge work? I know nothing about that game.

Ulrich@feddit.org on 22 Feb 18:38 next collapse

Lots of people consider it and choose not to due to the complexity involved. One of many reasons to hate email.

Tower@lemm.ee on 22 Feb 21:06 collapse

stored in my hosting…

This, specifically, is the issue people are warning you about. Yes, your hosting account from Bluehost has the ability to handle email, but it’s not great. It’s really there just so the server can send admin emails and such, not support a full email architecture.

Simplifying - part of the way spam is detected by the servers that receive an email is to check the IP address from where it came from against a list of IP addresses known to deliver spam. If it’s coming from a spam IP, the message is likely spam, so they either put it in the recipient’s spam folder or fail to deliver it entirely.

Now, you may think you don’t need to be worried because you’re an upstanding web citizen and would never send out spam messages. However, your hosting is on a shared server, with anywhere from a handful to dozens and dozens of not hundreds of other hosting accounts, all sharing the same IP address, and they have this email ability as well. If any one of them, intentionally or unintentionally, sends out a bunch of spam messages and gets your IP address flagged, the entire server loses its reputation for some period of time. Most of the time, this is caused by people not keeping their website security up to date and their site getting infected. The malicious code then goes and sends out as many spam emails as it can before the hosting company shuts things down.

Unfortunately, you end up having very little control over the situation.

  • You can ask your hosting provider to do something about your malicious/ incompetent neighbor, but they may or may not.

  • You can ask to be moved to a new server, but that’s just playing neighbor roulette.

  • If you are able to get your hosting provider to do something about your neighbor, the other email servers in the world are still going to distrust receiving emails from your IP address for some period of time. You can make requests to try and have your IP address unflagged, that they may or may not do.

  • Even if you do all the leg work of getting your server unflagged, one of your stupid neighbors could immediately get the server flagged again.

So, as others have said - yes, you can use your hosting account as your email server. But considering it’s only a few bucks a month to have a dedicated email service handle it, it’s generally not worth the hassle and headache.