xAI Data Center Emits Plumes of Pollution, New Video Shows
(www.desmog.com)
from Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world on 14 Jun 10:25
https://programming.dev/post/32187337
from Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world on 14 Jun 10:25
https://programming.dev/post/32187337
A massive data center at xAI’s controversial site in Memphis, Tennessee is emitting huge plumes of pollution, according to footage recorded by an environmental watchdog group.
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I thought they where using commercial off the shelf generators?
They are using portable generators only intended for short term usage in an emergency. One of the tradeoffs of being portable is that the generators are unable to combust the natural gas “cleanly”(under sufficient temperature and with enough oxygen, resulting in this ideal reaction: CH4 + 2 O2 -> 2 H2O + CO2), leading to incomplete reactions releasing many pollutants, most of which are at least suspected of causing cancer. This is acceptable in an emergency but not if some narcist runs them in a population center without proper permission to feed his horribly inefficient model in an attempt to keep up with other AI labs.
As someone studying mechanical engineer I’m well aware of the process. I’m also well aware that all commercial generators must abide by environmental regulations.
A great video on the issue:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VJT2JeDCyw
Quote from the video, “You can smell it as well,” refering to the turbine opetation.
They emit smell. That comports with the leak being gas and not just heat.
How could we have known, that putting the people making the profit in charge of regulation would lead to this!? /s
Polluting the sky in order to pollute the internet 👌
Its apparent that the health of the internet has a direct impact on the health of society.
Now that’s rad. Been consuming leftist niche internet for a while, never read such connection. You’re a poet. Thanks!
This is like some ‘evangellion’ shit, where all iur collevtive civilizational resources are being used to do A Bad Thing
And also add tits to stuff.
And im too old for my mental illness to be harnessed for giant robot fights. So sad.
The picture is a heat signature. Obviously heat is released. But why would it release pollution as methane? They are just cooling computers.
“But through the lens of Wilson’s optical gas imaging camera, a scientific instrument that is used within the oil and gas industry and by regulators to detect methane emissions, the pollution becomes readily apparent. Huge, billowing plumes of pollution, including large volumes of unburned methane, rise into the atmosphere and drift off-site.”
Have you read the article at all?
I did read that now. But why would it release methane at all? They are cooling computers. Methane is a terrible heat conducting gas last I checked.
Direct quote from the article:
Looks like it’s not just cooling that they’re doing there. The link in the quote leads to an article describing the data centre’s new turbines, specifically referring to them as methane gas turbines.
I skimmed that article briefly and I don’t think it points out the mechanism by which these turbines work - if it does, I must’ve missed it. I did however see a line that said the turbines also release formaldehyde during operation.
Methane in this case seems to me to either be a byproduct of power generation or unused fuel somehow leaking from the system. I have no clue how gas turbines work, so I’m talking out of my ass here. In any case this seems to be the source of the methane emissions.
Methane is what the majority of natural gas is made up of, and if your generator isn’t made to be very efficient (like a real power station is), you’ll lose some of your fuel unburnt into the atmosphere.
Kinda like unburnt wood smoke vapour, which could have been burned in a higher quality wood burner, but just goes up the chimney in an open fire.
It’s amazing to me that cloud computing is so profitable that they can run inefficient gas generators to power it.
People don’t think about the internet being fossil fuel powered.
They’re running generators to power the data centre. Apparently they’re incredibly inefficient if they’re releasing methane
the heat signature is showing the hot methane billowing out of the generators he’s running to power grok.
also he’s using drinking water from the memphis sands aquifer to cool the computers. not greywater, not river water, but clean aquifer water.
please don’t use grok.
As someone who’s around Memphis often, we are having major pollution issues from these generators. There have been several days we have had terrible smog issues lately. Nobody here wants these generators around. They were installed despite fierce opposition from the locals. It’s absolutely horrible.
When building a data center why wouldn’t you secure the required electricity and water before committing to a site?
Why would capitalists give a fuck about any constraint? We’ve conditioned them for a century to believe they can do anything they want with impunity.
The power companies demanded guarantees, so they wouldn’t be on the hook for investing in infrastructure and power generation if the whole hype disappeared the next month. Tech bros then went “how can we do it quick and dirty when we can’t get others to pay for it?”
Typically.
This is Musk’s AI project though, he’s not going to wait to secure power or permits or environmental impact studies or anything like that…
Did Jenson deliver the G100s? Grab some generators and get pumping.
You do. But you also plan in the case the surrounding infrastructure fails.
But more to the point, in some cases it is better to produce (parto of) your own electricity (where better means cheaper) than buy it on the market. It is not really common but is doable.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/63fe0f46-a473-4599-b4f4-30bbb1f48b7c.webp">
“Nonono! It’s, uuh… it’s like fairy dust, but from the AI!”
This article and what they are doing feels fishy, for a few reasons.
Data centers usually have steam plumes, but only with older cooling systems, newer designs dont vent off nearly as much water vapor and even newer designs have liquid-to-chip, and im not sure how those vent the heat, but its definitly not venting their treated coolant+water. (Because that would be dumb and expensive, but that seems to be the flavor of the day, so lets roll with that)
If the building was not designed by a monkey, then this is likely just a generator test. I want to put the emphasis on “TEST” because a data center only runs its very inefficent generators when utility power fails. (They will generate exaust, but usually its diesle generators or something with cheap fuel). Fancy gas turbines sounds very “extra” because the reason that deisle generators are used is that they can turn on and hold the load of the building quickly (and the building should have a battery bank to hold that for exactly what ever that time is)
To me, one of two things is wrong, either the camera is just imaging thermals and thats a normal steam plume and they are being sensationalist. OR (and more likely answer). Musk is building some bespoke data center in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere without the local infrastructure to support it and is doing all sorts of expensive additions to make it do what it would be able to if it was clustered with other data centers that share utilitites.
We dont have to guess, it is literally powered by these generators because the local infrastructure cannot support it.
this should be a highlighted comment or smth.
You’e considering Memphis the middle of nowhere?
Compared to the data center sprawl in other areas, yes. As others have pointed out, this appears to be a gross over-utilizarion of the local utilities and is just burning shit to make the building work where noone is paying attention to it.
They aren’t over-utilizing it though. They’re supplementing with portable generators. Even if you’ve never been to Memphis, you can still look up the info to realize your argument is hyperbolic.
The article is not fishy, you are just uninformed. They are powering the datacenter with turbines fueled by natural gas. You are right about the datacenter though, it’s beyond fishy, into crime territory. To top it all off, they have approval to run only a handful of turbines (after not even seeking approval in the first place, i.e. running them illegally), but they are running a ton of them.
You misconstru uninformed for skeptical, an eco-themed news site will have a bias against anything related to data centers, supreme leader musk, or burning hydrocarbons. So apologies if I took the article with a grain of salt.
Perhaps one begets the other.
One of the details that I spotted was that the images in the article show the FLIR logo, which is a type of equipment that one would use to view methane plumes, and was used to dramatic effect during the Aliso Canyon gas storage field leaks. That may not be a convincing detail on its own, but one that I thought suggested some credibility.
We have similar products where I work as well, they are just expensive thermal imaging cameras. They would not be able to identify the chemical contents of a gas cloud at a distance, just that there was a cloud. The point is that in the age of digital media, its very hard to prove anything is what you say it is. Between photoshop and AI making a mess of the digital media landscape, it makes things increasingly difficult to validate, and shouting “do your own reaserch” will only add to the ambiguity as the internet is not static and can be changed by anyone at any time.
It’s exactly what’s been reporting in several pieces from 404 Media, and others. Namely xAI does NOT have the infrastructure BUT Musk has a history (Tesla, SpaceX, etc) of cutting corners. He “gets shit done” like no one else not because he’s particularly smart or efficiency … but because he breaks the law, as simple as that.
The linked video is a bit unclear to me. The don’t explain the modes well. Mostly it seems to just show heat. According to the description it’s a Teledyne FLIR G620, which should be able to detect Methane and other VOCs. But it’s not clear to me how we are supposed to distinguish hot rising CO2 and H2O from any potentially leaking Methane, in those pictures.
Video in question www.youtube.com/watch?v=4prazMVylRs
Yea ngl that was my first question. This really does seem like it’s either grouping them together, or purely heat.
It really does just look like heat dissipation from rooftop heat exchangers, not gasses out of an exhaust. I’m sure that building uses (and wastes) an ungodly amount of power, but I’d imagine it’s grid-tied, and therefore any noxious gases are being generated elsewhere (with the exception of on-site backup generators).
I’m all for telling AI to fuck off, but let’s at least have the facts straight.
I don’t know if they got the substation built, but last year they weren’t able to get enough power from the grid, so installed 14 generators (at 2.5mw each) to cover their needs
datacenterdynamics.com/…/elon-musks-xai-data-cent…
They do actually burn gas locally, I wasn’t trying to dispute that part. It has become a political discussion in Memphis. Apparently they wanted to start operations on turbines before the grid access was ready.
Came here to also question this. “To the naked eye the pollution is not visible.” Is that because we’re just looking at heat in an IR camera? I know everybody hates Elon Musk but we also hate misinformation and love truth, right? I mean, cuz we are the good guys… riiiight?
That’s what I’m wondering as well, how do we differentiate cooling towers and the heat from those vs actual exhaust emissions…
Is this the woke-free AI they want?
its the AI conscieness behind musk.
I saw the headlineand thought, bet this is the one where I live… Correct
WHAT THE FUCK IS “POLLUTION”!?
Ooooh. Yeah, that’s bad. Methane is a pretty bad greenhouse gas.