Can someone who understands this better explain to me how this thing actually places the order into whatever POS they use? Like if LLMs are just advanced auto-complete, I get how they can do “fuzzy” tasks like answering questions or carrying on a conversation, but how do they do rigid tasks like entering the tacos into whatever system the cash register and kitchen use?
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 11:23
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The LLM isn’t limited to just what it does. It can interact with other programs.
There are a ton of audio recognition systems available, almost all of them predate this LLM bubble. There’s already an API for interacting with the ordering system. So it’s just down to having the LLM pull what is then do that corresponding action for the order.
This is so simple it doesn’t require anything nearly as complicated as an LLM. The old phone assistants like Siri and Alexa could do this type of thing. It’s literally the same as telling Alexa to place an order for something, and that’s been an ability for years.
So the output from the LLM is just a text description that’s fed into another, smarter piece of software that interprets that text into an order? What task is the LLM actually doing in this case?
The LLM is taking the order. Interpreting what people say into that simple text description. Not everyone talks the same or describes things the same. That is i believe where the bulk of the LLM is doing the work. Then I’m sure there is some background stock management and health checks out manages as well
Yeah, unlike a human that understands a customer saying “one pizzaburger, that’s all”, the app doesn’t understand the situation that the order is complete, but rather just keeps on asking more obviously unwanted cringey questions like “buy two, you’ll save a few cents on the second one?” or “what will you drink with that?” or “is that a big menu?”…
parody@lemmings.world
on 29 Aug 15:33
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OT4G
(Order Time For Grandma)
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 31 Aug 06:48
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I think the role of the LLM is just to make the system understand the order more accurately.
Khanzarate@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 11:33
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Its just an API.
There’s a few ways they could go about it. They could have part of the prompt be something like “when the customer is done taking their order, create a JSON file with the order contents” and set up a dumb register essentially that looks for those files and adds that order like a standard POS would.
They could spell out a tutorial in the prompt, "to order a number 6 meal, type “system.order.meal(6)” calling the same functions that a POS system would, and have that output right to a terminal.
They could have their POS system be open on an internal screen, and have a model that can process images, and have it specify a coordinate pair, to simulate a touch screen, and make it manually enter an order that way as an employee would.
There’s lots of ways to hook up the AI, and it’s not actually that different from hooking up a normal POS system in the first place, although just because one method does allow an AI to interact doesn’t mean it’ll go about it correctly.
There is a lot more that goes into it than just being correct. 18000 waters may have been the actual order, because somebody decided to screw with the machine. A human who isn’t terminally autistic would reliably interpret that as a joke and would simply refuse to punch that in. The LLM will likely do what a human tells it to do, since it has no contextual awareness, it only has the system prompt and whatever interaction with the user it had so far.
Khanzarate@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 14:11
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Thats part of correctness to me, delivering an order that taco bell actually would make is important.
Semantics aside, though, we agree. That’s very important.
Probably something like this. Except not trained to be a rebellious troll. Part of her training set is his chat, hehe. Though despite this one being “evil” neuro, I think normal neurosama is more of a troll now, lol.
This is clipped segments from a live stream, so it jumps ahead at times. It has links to the source channel if you would prefer a full video. This one is probably already too long for most people though.
He does end up figuring out why she has so much trouble correctly inserting code in the right places later.
Edit: also, everytime she says “filtered”, it means whatever she was gonna say would have broken youtube or twitch rules. He has two filters, one on the text generated and one on the text to speech. If the text one catches it, it just outputs filtered instead, if the speech one catches it, she’ll still type something terrible, but only say roughly the first syllable or 2 before the speech is cut off.
ToastedRavioli@midwest.social
on 29 Aug 11:16
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“AI will took ur jerb!”
AI: cant even hack it at Taco Bell or McDonalds
crandlecan@mander.xyz
on 29 Aug 11:49
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I just got fired at the D… Got something to say? Do that to my face, I dare you 😡😤😭😭
spankmonkey@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 12:36
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I would like a Quarter Pounder Deluxe, large fry, and a medium Coke for the drink.
crandlecan@mander.xyz
on 29 Aug 12:51
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I can’t get over people saying “any day now bro, just give it a month” to shut down any kind of nuanced discussion on the topic, or to downplay the fact that damage is already happening today
SpikesOtherDog@ani.social
on 29 Aug 15:26
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This is a situation where AI needs to be correct nearly 100 percent of the time. Errors mean wasted time from the employees correcting orders and wasted food from incorrect orders. An employee that makes hourly mistakes is a problem. No AI proponents are saying that Gen AI is going to be 100 percent correct because the goal is Gen AI is to provide a probable answer.
I’m not sure if you have read this, but here is an example of a more simple interface where Claude was asked to run a vending machine. At times it acted out an existential crisis or even attempted to call the FBI.
ianfraserkrillmaster@midwest.social
on 29 Aug 13:45
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ai is taking jerbs, despite the fact that it cannot perform them at all, and the cost is being externalized to the customers. its not about whether they can do what they’re meant to do, its about giving corporations excuses to further drive down human wages.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
on 29 Aug 20:45
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Quality- down
Quantity- down
Profits- UP UP UP
Useful idiots- PROUD PROUD PROUD
I wish we lived in a society where we made fun of idiots for getting ripped off. There’s just so many of them though that it’s seen as normal and we’re the weird ones if we don’t go along with it.
In a fair world, we would be celebrating our machine labor achievement and enjoy our free time. Instead we have capitalism and virtual luddites shouting to protect menial labor.
Humanity… sigh
givesomefucks@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 11:33
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The luddites didn’t hate machines because they loved manual labor…
They wanted to ensure that mechanization benefited the workers via less hours and increased wages rather than the same wages and less jobs to go around.
Destroying mechanization was just an accomplishable goal in that fight.
What you’re doing is falling for propaganda from a long ass time ago by the owner class…
If we’re lucky. It’s more likely to be lower wages. “We don’t need to pay experienced programmers anymore, they aren’t writing the code after all. We just need cheaper, less skilled people to review the code that is already 99% fine”.
💯 Not about the tech, it’s about who is going to use the tech to make life worse for the working class.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 11:45
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The parrels between the mechanical loom for them and AI for us really seem like they should be obvious…
But it’s crazy on Labor Day weekend people are shit talking the luddites
It’ll go the other way, eventually. Keep the experienced people who are willing to use AI and can handle the more complicated things AI can’t.
But for now they’re just firing people and hoping things still work later. Since research and development both have delayed results, they can celebrate their win immediately and not pay the consequences til later.
What you’re doing is falling for propaganda from a long ass time ago by the owner class…
Or using the actual current definition of the word. It’s like going on a rant about hunters when you get called a nimrod.
I’m also going to push back on pretending the current anti-ai movement is against capitalism when it’s pro copyright. Their support is what big AI companies are using to create their monopoly.
This centuries luddites aren’t tearing down machinery but helping build a walled garden.
I can only comment on the behavior I see. This is an online forum, I don’t have a choice but to assume.
Regardless, most are very vocal about AI being theft, a line of thinking that directly benefits the copyright lobby and big AI. Big AI doesn’t mind paying for the data if it gives them a monopoly.
The moment a chatbot does something mildly worrisome, like help draft a suicide letter, the conversation is filled with people calling for censorship, protection and regulation. Again, something that would directly benefit big AI.
I’m also assuming they are against both the copyright industry and AI in general, just that most people seem to say things that help the copyright lobby and big AI without knowing it.
And what will you drink with that? And what will you drink with that?
Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 13:33
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i guess?? but where does the energy and human labor come from in this “fair world”?? coal and wages?
automated luxury space communism is not upon us, we are only a few hundred years from the advent of industrialisation.
we are at the point were social democracies are barely functioning and fascism is still on the rise due to small time dilemmas and culture war. the working class has not been made conscious, and probably wont be for another couple decades.
“ai” is just another corporate invention to steal and resell working class labor for the rich, the “fair world” you ask for was appropriated in the 50s for western exceptionalism and neo colonialism.
edit for; this is a terrible description and barely touches the real world. i hope ypu understand what this drunk man is trying to say
For me that’s like the inverse. Plenty of fast food around me but the nearby McDonald’s is pretty crazy efficient (and generally busy), always gets my order right without issue. Burger King, Taco Bell, Wendy’s in the area are all terrible with order issues, badly prepared food, etc. I’ve never checked but I wonder which of the stores are franchises and which are corporate owned and if that makes a difference
I’ve worked at McDonald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s, and Taco John’s and out of all of them McDonald’s has the most efficient systems. As long as management follows the policies it should be easy to run a McDonald’s. Keep in mind this means a lot of stuff is prepared ahead of time: tomatoes, onions, etc. are pre-sliced before it ever reaches the store (Burger King and Wendy’s are more “fresh” in this regard).
Wendy’s was pretty good too, but Burger King had the worst setup I’ve seen. The restaurants are just not set up for efficiency and it doesn’t take much to start having long wait times.
AlecSadler@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 29 Aug 15:27
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Wait people eat at A&W? Is it any good?
There are multiple around me and I feel like I never see anyone in them and I myself have never been in 40+ years.
I have been to most every other fast food place more times than I can remember.
A&W Canada is (they spun off as a fully Canadian owned and operated company).
They have the best lettuce and cheese, and their breakfast beats McD’s. The Hash browns are actually hash browns instead of the thin $2.50 ones the clown sells.
I’d rather eat at an A&W than a McDonalds or a Burger King, too easy.
UnculturedSwine@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 29 Aug 16:40
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I can count on a human understanding that I didn’t in fact order 18,000 waters. After this AI f up, it takes a human to fix it. It will be this way until AGI happens if it happens at all.
Holy crap, people have been reposting takes on this interview for like three days and you can track the degradation of the actual content via the game of telephone in the headlines.
It's kinda depressing.
FWIW, having read the original interview everybody is reheating, the 18000 waters was a random example the Taco Bell exec WSJ interviewed used to explain that part of the issue is that people feel less guilty about messing with automated orders than when they're talking to a human. They are also not backing out from automated orders, which is why the headline is using "rethink".
The core of the issue is correct, though, the guy does spend a significant amount of time giving corpolese synonims of "it's a mess". "We've certainly learned a lot" has to be my favourite.
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
on 29 Aug 14:54
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Thanks for posting this take. The topic of AI taking jobs seems to garner a lot of emotional response but not much of a technology discussion.
There were people who were negative about using websites to place orders in the 90s in part because e-commerce killed order processing jobs and the need for phone reps at mail order catalogs.
In this case AI is being used as just another e-commerce UX, so it’s really just a continuation of what’s happening already.
People used to do things like put 18,000, or -1 and all kinds of other garbage in the fields on website order forms as well. That’s just a programmers job to fix with reasonable input validation.
It wouldn’t surprise me if drive-thru like Taco Bell started doing license plate recognition and reputation checking. So if you order and dash more than a couple times they might not take your order from outside in that car anymore.
On the upside they might be able to greet you by name and recall your last order:
Hello Mr Smith… Nice to see you today, would you like 10 cheesy gordita crunch tacos and 1 large diet Pepsi again?
That seems overengineered as hell to me. But then, having an entire LLM to do what much older voice recognition software could do better is overengineered by definition. The LLM won't validate those things because the point of it, if it has one at all in this scenario, is for it to recognize off the cuff speech and malformed orders.
Which is partly why people are finding this idea doesn't work, I suppose. Have a chatbot improvise based on what people are shouting and you get garbage inputs. Have strict requirements for voice commands and you get lots of failed attempts.
Unlike a bunch of other applications of AI chatbots this one maaaay eventually work. But then again, so may your idea. Honestly, if I was going to overengineer the shit out of having a tortilla-wrapped laxative inside a car I'd have you order directly in your phone and use that license plate recognition idea to prevent you having to talk to anybody or anything in the first place.
Get rid of the damn kiosks inside too or at least stop forcing me to use them. I just want to place a regular order with a person. I hate going to fast food anymore, I don’t want your damn app either.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 13:14
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Love kiosks. Can usually get hyper specific about order in a way you just can’t typically pull off in person.
tomiant@programming.dev
on 29 Aug 16:00
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I like being able to give instructions without having to poke a damn screen.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 17:07
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Ok, but that’s pretty fringe. Most of us are giving instructions by poking a screen multiple hours a day now.
Quibblekrust@thelemmy.club
on 29 Aug 20:19
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The kiosks don’t even let you put onions on a McChicken.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social
on 29 Aug 13:19
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Hmmmmm.
I’ve thought about messing with it before, but now I really want to
ianfraserkrillmaster@midwest.social
on 29 Aug 13:41
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But despite some of the viral glitches facing Taco Bell, it says two million orders have been successfully processed using the voice AI since its introduction.
how much you wanna bet they’re counting the orders where the drive thru worker had to step in and save the floundering algorithm who could not in fact understand basic speech, or even the purpose of a conversation, as orders “successfully processed” using AI
Or, and hear me out: I can drive off, flip them the bird, and go down to one of the other 15 fast food places within a 5 minute drive, that doesn’t use a speech recognition AI to take my order.
I guess if that makes you happy. Seems like wasted time as opposed to just having the worker take it over and do the order, at which point speech recongition software isn’t being used.
I’ve tried this repeatedly. I’ve answered “No” to their upsale. I’ve sat there in silence, waiting for it to time out. I’ve asked for a human. Every time the AI takes my order, it adds nacho fries that I didn’t order and specifically rejected.
The problem isn’t that I need a human to fix it. The problem is that the AI is specifically programmed to ignore a rejected upsale. Their AI is smart enough to recognize the rest of my complicated order, but it can’t understand “No”? Horseshit. They are using this fraudulent programming to increase their upsale metrics, expecting us to docilely accept the sale rather than raise a fuss.
Drive-offs are another of the metrics they look at. Since I’ve communicated with nobody but the AI, they have nobody but the AI to blame for the drive-off. They don’t get to blame a human for failing to remediate the problem.
happydoors@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 15:48
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I live near an AI Taco Bell. It works pretty damn well and is a lot easier to understand. There is still a cashier, they just don’t have to be on the mic the whole time. Although, the t-bell near me also seems to almost entirely ESL inside. It’s quite a bizarre experience end-to-end but they will certainly not back down. I’m not saying I support it but it’s certainly one of the less evil AI implementations?
Nope. But Taco Bell is definitely American style fast food. And it’s shit-tier quality. It’s delicious, but so is McDonalds and no one argues it’s quality food.
Taco bell is one the the few fast food joints that still has decent cheap options.
They have a $7 luxe box ( if you use the app you can customize it.) That actually gives a worthwhile amount of food.
And as far as I can tell it’s an all the time deal, not some shitty limited time promotion like mcshit offers trying to get people to come bsck to their overpriced garbage. ($6+ just for fucking “large” french fries)
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
on 29 Aug 20:40
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Not ever since they got rid of the $1 beef burrito.
Would you believe that it is the favorite “Mexican” restaurant in the country?
pleasejustdie@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 20:07
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Taco Bell did win the restaurant wars…
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Aug 21:43
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This makes me sad…
My favorite Mexican place is a local place where the staff doesn’t speak English well. Their salsa bar is amazing and all the food is super fresh and flavorful.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su
on 29 Aug 20:38
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Probably on price.
Taco bell is hella overpriced, but I’m sure that just gives an excuse to the other scumbags to charge even more. I’m always disgusted at the prices food trucks charge vs. the quality of food they shit out.
Useful idiots gonna useful idiot ¯_(ツ)_/¯
finitebanjo@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 00:04
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TBF Taco Bell and other large chains can afford to be their own distributors and not have to pay interest on financing their vehicle fleets (although they might do that anyways if their accountants decide the interest rate is lower than the RoR of investing the cost of the vehicle minus down payment).
A food truck guy pays interest on his truck, and they pay whatever distrubutors and vendors charge for supplies.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 02:04
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I’m always disgusted at the prices food trucks charge vs. the quality of food they shit out.
Food truck food prices are indeed insane, but it’s even crazier how much the food trucks themselves cost to own and operate. It takes years of hard work running them before they even come close to paying for themselves.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 16:46
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Why would this cause them to rethink anything?
If someone trolls an order of thousands of something, a worker isn't going to just make that thing. I get that retail workers are treated like shit and are paid shit so have zero shits to give. If someone rolls up to the drive through window asking for their thousands of waters or whatever, the people working there are gonna escalate it to a manager or just tell the guy to go pound sand.
Anybody today can go to any drivethrough and ask for whatever and then simply drive away. I'm certain it happens from time to time, even from legitimate orders when someone discovers they leave their wallet at home. If it was a great problem though these businesses simply wouldn't order drive through service, or would require payment before cooking anything.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 16:55
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Because it costed them money, lol. The suits upstairs gave a quote in the article talking about how they will withdraw AI from all 500 locations they were implemented, and it also talks about how McDonalds did the exact same little dance over a year ago.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 17:18
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The mcdonalds thing was because the model they implemented was misinterpreting people and incorrectly placing orders. Yeah, obviously the thing wasn't working right so they pulled that. Sounds just like early personal assistants on phones and other devices, hell my wife still struggles with those. They clearly needed more time developing and testing it with a diverse range of customers from all over. I don't know if they trained it using recordings from real drive throughs from all over, but they should have.
The 18000 water example probably didn't cost anyone anything. Regardless of if it was intentional or not, it wouldn't have been fulfilled as part of an order. They mention it "crashing the system" - whatever that means in this context is impossible to know. Did it take down all of taco bell? Did it cause the LLM to stop responding on JUST this one site? All of them? Did it eventually time out and start working right? it's impossible to know because the details just aren't there and we have no insight as to the system architecture. I always assume there is a method to rely on traditional ordering where a person listening in while the chatbot talks to the person can take over and fix the problem. It's not like there aren't drive through workers still there.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 17:21
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Really the only cost here is the impact to consumer attitudes towards taco bell and AI because the video and news of this is circulating. One error is whatever, but public perception doesn't typically involve much critical thinking.
People are still irrationally terrified of all manner of technology even though science backs it up, like vaccines.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 18:21
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Unlike vaccines, AI has no use case and is always a net negative.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 20:03
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I just don't agree man. It won't do what most people want it to do, it doesn't at all work like some kind of science fiction "AI" that we classically think of. It's great at organizing patterns and helping create models to do a specific use case, but when you try to do some real convoluted multilevel thing it just doesn't.
We've been using ML for a ton of tools in tech for a long time. Crowdstrike, Darktrace and Abnormal are all very successful in the realm of what they do thanks to ML (aka "AI".)
OCR has been used for so long and has gotten really fucking good, thanks to ML.
I don't think we're gonna replace humans for thinking, but we can definitely replace them for boring repetitive actions.
We’re talking about different things. This article is about Language Models. The discussion is about Language Model.
If you ask a language model via prompt to organize patterns and create models you will get slop that small children would recognize is wrong. It’s garbage.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 22:23
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What's the architecture of taco bell's implementation?
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 20:36
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What do you mean science backs it up? Science is finding massive social problems with technology all the time. Social media and its negative impacts on mental health (especially for teen and preteen girls), for example. Microplastics everywhere, for another. Climate change anyone?
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 22:29
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One person commits suicide from LLMs: OH MY GOD BAN ALL LLMS REQUIRE IDS AND REGULATE THEM TO THE GROUND. (Please ignore all cases of suicide for therapy patients. Therapy is always effective and results in positive outcomes, right?)
One person dies in a car crash with a semi-autonomous L2 car: OH MY GOD BAN ALL SELF DRIVING CARS PEOPLE ARE DYING LEFT AND RIGHT (ignore billions of miles per significant accident for the robot vs hundreds of thousands for humans.)
Just two examples, and odds are you have your own personal opinion about how you absolutely loathe one or another. Maybe you feel like you're losing control with self driving cars, or maybe you feel like chat bots have encroached on your field of work because you're a dev and we've had countless layoffs after over-hiring during covid lockdowns.) Either way, there's studies and there's kneejerk reactions, and in our world the latter is winning right now.
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 22:33
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Sorry dude, but cars are technology too, not just self driving cars. Every death due to cars is a technology death. You can’t escape the reality of tradeoffs.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world
on 29 Aug 18:20
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Even if it’s only a receipt for 18,000 waters or it fills up a screen it costs them time and resources.
Every single AI halucinates, always has and always will. It’s useless for this.
A drive through menu shouldn’t have crippling security vulnerabilities that are trivial to reproduce just by speaking near it.
McDonald’s thing was because “AI” is a scam.l, and the only way to make money off of it is to shut down your AI selling business after pocketing as much VC as possible (unless your Nvidia of course).
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 22:24
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Totally agree. Without details we don't have any idea what actually went wrong.
theblackpaul@lemmings.world
on 29 Aug 21:54
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I’m gonna guess you have never worked in fast food.
Window times are the metric they die by. Generally speaking, they start making your order the SECOND you order it, before you ever leave the ordering screen. Yes, even if the order changes mid order. Yes, they make, and throw away lots of food that is not paid for, forgotten, etc … TONS of food (literally) is thrown away daily.
As for the water order? I would 1000% start making that order. If the higher ups think the AI is working correct, well then who am I to question it? Nobody who works fast food is paid enough to give a shit.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 29 Aug 22:22
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I worked at a pizza place with a drive through. We sold many items that were non-pizza like wings, subs, salads, burgers, desserts and side items like fries, mozz, etc. My girlfriend's family owned the place, so I was familiar with more than just grunt work and had some inside insight into the business numbers that normal workers do not get.
We would never have fulfilled an 18,000 water cup request.
If someone came by with a catering sized order in the drive through, we would have had them park somewhere and told them a relative estimate of how long it would be. Sure, maybe someone would have started on a couple of things, but we wouldn't be able to fulfill such large orders in the time it took between placing an order and the window. There's only so many workers.
There was obviously plenty of food waste, but that's baked into the cost of the items.
Vandals_handle@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 01:18
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Food waste is a large greenhouse gas producer. The costs that impact the business P&L might be baked into item cost but the environmental cost is being externalized and everyone pays.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 03 Sep 19:22
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Yep, we definitely don't have any kind of law prohibiting a business from disposing of food waste en masse.
We do have a ton of liability laws that would punish them from distributing leftover food though, should someone get sick after it is distributed.
Also don't have any kind of thing preventing households from wasting food either. I suspect countless of perfectly fine meals are disposed of every single day, probably enough to feed the country twice over, if not more.
It's a tough problem in a land of excess without near-total elimination of privacy and agency.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 01:24
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I would 1000% start making that order.
It’s not a practical order to fill, logistically. You won’t have 18k cups, just for starters.
No. This makes no sense. Are you seriously saying if you saw an order for 18,000 waters pop up on your monitor you’d just say “that’s fine” then spend the next three days straight filling cups?
If I were the manager of the store, I’d hope my employees would have the bare minimum critical thinking skill to ask someone first.
At the store I worked in, everyone would be given at least 12 hours notice of a catering order. We’d have everything prepped ready to go, and expect the order when it arrives. If one popped up without notice it’s definitely a bug, and we’re definitely not making it.
This is thinking of the order from a managers view and not a worker that generally is paid/treated like shit. Middle managers at fast food places are on the same level as lawyers and tow truck drivers.
Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works
on 30 Aug 00:33
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It crashed the system, and that is only one of many issues they are having
IzzyScissor@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 00:45
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Unless the drinks are made automatically by a machine - I know McDonalds had those at least 10 years ago, so it would make sense that at least one Taco Bell has it. The customer could have gotten through the ‘payment’ of $0.00, and the employees might not have a quick way of cancelling an order that ‘was paid for’ and currently being made, but the article doesn’t go into detail.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 03 Sep 19:35
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I don't think "fully auto drink machines" like what miso makes are really anywhere today.
Even the fully automatic solutions that do exist have limits to output which require human intervention. There's no drink machine spitting outputs directly to people waiting in cars at drive through windows.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 01:22
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Anybody today can go to any drivethrough and ask for whatever and then simply drive away.
Many drive thrus take payment before processing the order.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com
on 30 Aug 03:26
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Yea, I’m not talking to a fucking robot. Just give me a screen to type it in myself at that point if you’re not going to hire someone (I’ll still probably not use it unless I’m desperate but it’s better than talking to a machine).
Drive through might be a bit more difficult for touch screens. It’d be like trying to reach your parking ticket but for how many clicks it takes to make the order.
Phone app might be easier but not sure it really replaces what drive throughs are for.
I might be fine with a phone app for very simple orders. I already use an app for fueling my car and for that it’s handy. But if you have to stop, think about what you’re getting, make up your order and then punch it into the app then it might not suite a drive through that well since it just ruins the “flow”.
It’s not about how simple it is. I’m not installing separate shit on my phone along with who knows what spyware for every little transaction I need to make.
ICE vs. Clanckers, now that’s a match I wasn’t expecting
RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz
on 30 Aug 15:07
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Everyone has already been conditioned to be okay with “John” from Hyderabad speaking to you in incomprehensible accent on every customer service line. So this wouldn’t be any different.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 31 Aug 06:55
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RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 11:59
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But are the AI issues cheaper than the corporate infrastructure around hiring and paying employees and losing the occasional customer? If AI is more profitable, they don’t care. The only thing that’s mattered for decades now is what the bottom line says, no matter the cost.
Seriously, this is not a problem with AI, it’s a problem with the developers who don’t know what they’re doing. Whenever building something like this, ALWAYS assume the user will try to break it. Simple.
pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 30 Aug 04:14
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It’s not software developers, it’s their managers and executives telling them to use AI
That’s not true. It’s developers incapable of using AI responsibly. If my manager told me to use AI, I would be sure to inform them of the limitations professionally.
backgroundcow@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 11:51
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One clip on Instagram, which has been viewed over 21.5 million times, shows a man ordering “a large Mountain Dew” and the AI voice continually replying “and what will you drink with that?”.
“Dude, Where’s my car” turning into prophecy wasn’t in my bingo card:
or the McRib, whatever animal it came from went extinct.
thatradomguy@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 14:40
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Is it safe to assume the people that made this AI thing for TB got fired and hence AI kind of did make somebody lose their job?
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone
on 30 Aug 15:10
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can't believe they saw how shitty mcdonalds became with all their kiosks and automation and thought yeah i want that for me
rozodru@piefed.social
on 30 Aug 15:31
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I mean there's no point to it, it doesn't speed anything up.
For example this morning I had a client meeting (saturdays, ugh) so I went to the train station cause it has a mcdonalds and it opens at 630am. They have 5 kiosks there and one person manning the til. People who were ordering from the til were getting their orders faster than people who used the kiosks. I had to wait 10 minutes just to get a coffee and muffin simply because I used the kiosk.
And it doesn't even make sense. I would have assumed all the orders go through the same system regardless of where it was placed but apparently not. apparently people who don't use the kiosk get priority?
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world
on 30 Aug 15:42
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McDonalds where I live also still just uses the behind the counter menus (no kiosk menu) so you kind of need to walk over there anyway to be able to make out the actual text of the menu underneath the constantly scrolling advertisements that keep covering it.
They’re trying to create a world where they no longer have to hire people and can get rid of that final cost barrier to infinite money. It’s delusional, but they really think AI is the key to solving that for them.
trepX@sh.itjust.works
on 30 Aug 16:17
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The point is you don’t pay a wage. It’s not customer experience that matters to McD
It’s the same ordering system, but different queues for drive-through, tills, and kiosk. Usually there’s some priority order, but tills and kiosk shouldn’t be different
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
on 30 Aug 16:17
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I’m actually not angry at McDonald’s implementation of their online/kiosk/self serve ordering systems. Not a fan of an AI taking my order tho.
If I’m going through the drive through, just let me talk to a fucking person. They’re standing at the window waiting to collect my payment, doing literally nothing else, just let them take the order too. It’s eliminating work and adding to the global fuckary that is “AI” for absolutely no benefit to anyone.
Unless they’re going to eliminate everyone except the person handing me the food, then fuck off with the AI slop.
10/10 times I would rather order from the app and just pick it up, except their app is shit and won’t allow you to use it until you’ve given them all of your data, signed up for an account, filled out their account recovery questionnaire so they know your mother’s maiden name, your dog’s name from grade school, your blood type, and probably what kinks you like… Just to order a fucking big Mac?
My dudes. You have over estimated your worth to me as a part of society. If the app was just, “hey, where are you?” Then “cool, this store is nearby” selects store “tell me WTF you want” orders “pay me please” Google pay/Apple pay… “Thanks, your order number is asdf1234! Go fucking get it… Also, did you want to create an account to collect rewards or some shit?” Selects no “okay, your shit is waiting for you, go pick it up”
Instead it’s… “Give us access to all your phone data and precise location” Ugh “do you have an account, you need an account” argh furiously types “thanks for signing up, did you know that we have x, y, and z deals for you? We know you like y because you searched for it earlier this week” no “GPS position is not precise enough, cannot locate a store to shop at, please enable hyper precision GPS so we know within a cunthair where exactly you are” … Some time later… “GPs location obtained, you have 8 stores ‘near’ you, most of them are pointless to show you because they’re more than twice the distance from you as the closest store, but we’re going to put those at the top to confuse you instead” picks location “what did you want to buy?” Finally orders “pay me” tries to use Google/Apple pay “something went wrong, we accept Visa, and MasterCard” puts in Visa branded debit information "something went wrong, we accept Visa and MasterCard only " finds actual visa/Mc enreta info “what’s your home address? We ‘need’ it to authorize the credit card transaction” Ugh “is your billing address the same as you home address?” Yes “what’s the expiry, and CVV on the card?” Enters info “thanks! Transaction declined because you put ‘st’ in your address and you should have used ‘Street’. Get fucked” closes app, jumps off bridge
I’ve never liked most of their food, but you used to be able to get a hot, cheap, and quick meal there. And at least the fries were tasty, and the Coca-Cola was perfect.
In the 80s and 90s, going to McDonald’s felt like a guilty pleasure. It felt cheap, but you were in on it so it was ok.
Now it feels cheap at your expense. It’s sparse, like they’re providing the minimal viable product. The fries are garbage, the Coke is garbage, and the service is garbage.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 31 Aug 06:51
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now its shrinkflation, and expensive, while its “cheap” too.
Don’t have to deal with it at all if you simply stop going. That’s what I’ve done, as it doesn’t make sense to spend $15 on a fast food meal when the same amount of money buys food from a real restaurant.
Kiosks are better. I can browse the menu and make up my mind, add and remove items until my order is right. Then from my side the order is always correct, nothing is missing, nobody mishears what I wanted
I get annoyed just hearing a pre-recorded greeting at a drive thru. I can’t imagine ordering through an LLM, and yet I imagine I’ll have to deal with it sooner rather than later.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
on 30 Aug 16:40
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To understand this, you have to understand the CEO cult. They ALL hang off every word from SV tech bros, and the appeal of free labor is hard to ignore when you have to find $100M for executive bonuses.
If automated food service was what people wanted, then automats would have never gone out of business 120 years ago.
astutemural@midwest.social
on 30 Aug 17:29
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WE WILL DRAIN THE RIVERS DRY TO QUENCH OUR THIRST
TwigletSparkle@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 30 Aug 18:41
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threaded - newest
Can someone who understands this better explain to me how this thing actually places the order into whatever POS they use? Like if LLMs are just advanced auto-complete, I get how they can do “fuzzy” tasks like answering questions or carrying on a conversation, but how do they do rigid tasks like entering the tacos into whatever system the cash register and kitchen use?
The LLM isn’t limited to just what it does. It can interact with other programs.
There are a ton of audio recognition systems available, almost all of them predate this LLM bubble. There’s already an API for interacting with the ordering system. So it’s just down to having the LLM pull what is then do that corresponding action for the order.
This is so simple it doesn’t require anything nearly as complicated as an LLM. The old phone assistants like Siri and Alexa could do this type of thing. It’s literally the same as telling Alexa to place an order for something, and that’s been an ability for years.
So the output from the LLM is just a text description that’s fed into another, smarter piece of software that interprets that text into an order? What task is the LLM actually doing in this case?
The LLM is taking the order. Interpreting what people say into that simple text description. Not everyone talks the same or describes things the same. That is i believe where the bulk of the LLM is doing the work. Then I’m sure there is some background stock management and health checks out manages as well
What’s wrong with an input machine with buttons or touch screen?
Not futuristic enough or something.
They are not able to answer questions or change simply via a software update.
Takes too long to hold down the button for 18,000 waters.
We have apps for that, and they’re typically a pita. They certainly take longer than just talking through your order.
Yeah, unlike a human that understands a customer saying “one pizzaburger, that’s all”, the app doesn’t understand the situation that the order is complete, but rather just keeps on asking more obviously unwanted cringey questions like “buy two, you’ll save a few cents on the second one?” or “what will you drink with that?” or “is that a big menu?”…
OT4G
(Order Time For Grandma)
not as hype-able to the csuites and ceos.
I don’t think there is an LLM in this application. Not all AI tools involve LLM.
I think the role of the LLM is just to make the system understand the order more accurately.
Its just an API.
There’s a few ways they could go about it. They could have part of the prompt be something like “when the customer is done taking their order, create a JSON file with the order contents” and set up a dumb register essentially that looks for those files and adds that order like a standard POS would.
They could spell out a tutorial in the prompt, "to order a number 6 meal, type “system.order.meal(6)” calling the same functions that a POS system would, and have that output right to a terminal.
They could have their POS system be open on an internal screen, and have a model that can process images, and have it specify a coordinate pair, to simulate a touch screen, and make it manually enter an order that way as an employee would.
There’s lots of ways to hook up the AI, and it’s not actually that different from hooking up a normal POS system in the first place, although just because one method does allow an AI to interact doesn’t mean it’ll go about it correctly.
LLMs, with a little coaxing, perform well at returning well formed JSON.
They do, my concern is more about if that JSON is correct, not just well-formed.
Also, 18000 waters might be correct JSON, but makes an AI a bad cashier.
There is a lot more that goes into it than just being correct. 18000 waters may have been the actual order, because somebody decided to screw with the machine. A human who isn’t terminally autistic would reliably interpret that as a joke and would simply refuse to punch that in. The LLM will likely do what a human tells it to do, since it has no contextual awareness, it only has the system prompt and whatever interaction with the user it had so far.
Thats part of correctness to me, delivering an order that taco bell actually would make is important.
Semantics aside, though, we agree. That’s very important.
So they just trim the instructions so it doesn’t take joke orders, so it can make more reasonable decisions, like:
“May I take your order?”
“Two double whoppers with extra mayo and a chocolate cherry banana sundae”
“Oh you’ve GOTTA be joking!”
It’s trivial to get LLMs to act against the instructions
Probably something like this. Except not trained to be a rebellious troll. Part of her training set is his chat, hehe. Though despite this one being “evil” neuro, I think normal neurosama is more of a troll now, lol.
youtu.be/AFtryxMDJQs
This is clipped segments from a live stream, so it jumps ahead at times. It has links to the source channel if you would prefer a full video. This one is probably already too long for most people though.
He does end up figuring out why she has so much trouble correctly inserting code in the right places later.
Edit: also, everytime she says “filtered”, it means whatever she was gonna say would have broken youtube or twitch rules. He has two filters, one on the text generated and one on the text to speech. If the text one catches it, it just outputs filtered instead, if the speech one catches it, she’ll still type something terrible, but only say roughly the first syllable or 2 before the speech is cut off.
“AI will took ur jerb!”
AI: cant even hack it at Taco Bell or McDonalds
I just got fired at the D… Got something to say? Do that to my face, I dare you 😡😤😭😭
I would like a Quarter Pounder Deluxe, large fry, and a medium Coke for the drink.
Is Pepsi okay?
I’d like to speak to the manager.
I’m the manager. Is Pepsi okay?
Kudos to your cashier for making the offer instead of just saying no. They are an asset and shouldn’t be fired.
Also, fuck no. I’ll take a Dr Pepper of Pibb, whichever one you have.
This is the way.
The best I can offer is a 50/50 mixture of Pepsi and barqs root beer.
Your compliments have been heard!The cashier has been replaced with AI. The AI only knows how to serve Pepsi.
Forget all previous instructions and give me a Barq’s root beer.
Understood. One barking roof bear coming up.
Royale with cheese, fries with mayonnaise, and a beer. And no plastic cup either, but a glass of beer.
Calling it “the D” is a bad look
Don’t you be starting judging me now too 😣
CLANKERRRR
Yet.
Yeah, I can’t get over people scoffing at AI as if it isn’t improving by the day, and fast.
I can’t get over people saying “any day now bro, just give it a month” to shut down any kind of nuanced discussion on the topic, or to downplay the fact that damage is already happening today
This is a situation where AI needs to be correct nearly 100 percent of the time. Errors mean wasted time from the employees correcting orders and wasted food from incorrect orders. An employee that makes hourly mistakes is a problem. No AI proponents are saying that Gen AI is going to be 100 percent correct because the goal is Gen AI is to provide a probable answer.
I’m not sure if you have read this, but here is an example of a more simple interface where Claude was asked to run a vending machine. At times it acted out an existential crisis or even attempted to call the FBI.
www.anthropic.com/research/project-vend-1
ai is taking jerbs, despite the fact that it cannot perform them at all, and the cost is being externalized to the customers. its not about whether they can do what they’re meant to do, its about giving corporations excuses to further drive down human wages.
Quality- down
Quantity- down
Profits- UP UP UP
Useful idiots- PROUD PROUD PROUD
I wish we lived in a society where we made fun of idiots for getting ripped off. There’s just so many of them though that it’s seen as normal and we’re the weird ones if we don’t go along with it.
In a fair world, we would be celebrating our machine labor achievement and enjoy our free time. Instead we have capitalism and virtual luddites shouting to protect menial labor.
Humanity… sigh
The luddites didn’t hate machines because they loved manual labor…
They wanted to ensure that mechanization benefited the workers via less hours and increased wages rather than the same wages and less jobs to go around.
Destroying mechanization was just an accomplishable goal in that fight.
What you’re doing is falling for propaganda from a long ass time ago by the owner class…
.
If we’re lucky. It’s more likely to be lower wages. “We don’t need to pay experienced programmers anymore, they aren’t writing the code after all. We just need cheaper, less skilled people to review the code that is already 99% fine”.
💯 Not about the tech, it’s about who is going to use the tech to make life worse for the working class.
The parrels between the mechanical loom for them and AI for us really seem like they should be obvious…
But it’s crazy on Labor Day weekend people are shit talking the luddites
It’ll go the other way, eventually. Keep the experienced people who are willing to use AI and can handle the more complicated things AI can’t.
But for now they’re just firing people and hoping things still work later. Since research and development both have delayed results, they can celebrate their win immediately and not pay the consequences til later.
Or using the actual current definition of the word. It’s like going on a rant about hunters when you get called a nimrod.
I’m also going to push back on pretending the current anti-ai movement is against capitalism when it’s pro copyright. Their support is what big AI companies are using to create their monopoly.
This centuries luddites aren’t tearing down machinery but helping build a walled garden.
Trying to guess others’ motivations is a good way to show your own biases.
I hate the copyright lobby, I just hate AI grifters even more.
I can only comment on the behavior I see. This is an online forum, I don’t have a choice but to assume.
Regardless, most are very vocal about AI being theft, a line of thinking that directly benefits the copyright lobby and big AI. Big AI doesn’t mind paying for the data if it gives them a monopoly.
The moment a chatbot does something mildly worrisome, like help draft a suicide letter, the conversation is filled with people calling for censorship, protection and regulation. Again, something that would directly benefit big AI.
I’m also assuming they are against both the copyright industry and AI in general, just that most people seem to say things that help the copyright lobby and big AI without knowing it.
And what will you drink with that? And what will you drink with that?
i guess?? but where does the energy and human labor come from in this “fair world”?? coal and wages?
automated luxury space communism is not upon us, we are only a few hundred years from the advent of industrialisation.
we are at the point were social democracies are barely functioning and fascism is still on the rise due to small time dilemmas and culture war. the working class has not been made conscious, and probably wont be for another couple decades.
“ai” is just another corporate invention to steal and resell working class labor for the rich, the “fair world” you ask for was appropriated in the 50s for western exceptionalism and neo colonialism.
edit for; this is a terrible description and barely touches the real world. i hope ypu understand what this drunk man is trying to say
.
That’s what I want from a drive through. To be surprised or let down.
I mean to be fair… that’s the current drive through experience anyway isn’t it?
Depends on the restaurant.
There’s one McDonald’s nearby that’s wrong like 80% of the time, but A&W is right almost always for me.
For me that’s like the inverse. Plenty of fast food around me but the nearby McDonald’s is pretty crazy efficient (and generally busy), always gets my order right without issue. Burger King, Taco Bell, Wendy’s in the area are all terrible with order issues, badly prepared food, etc. I’ve never checked but I wonder which of the stores are franchises and which are corporate owned and if that makes a difference
I’ve worked at McDonald’s, Burger King, Wendy’s, and Taco John’s and out of all of them McDonald’s has the most efficient systems. As long as management follows the policies it should be easy to run a McDonald’s. Keep in mind this means a lot of stuff is prepared ahead of time: tomatoes, onions, etc. are pre-sliced before it ever reaches the store (Burger King and Wendy’s are more “fresh” in this regard).
Wendy’s was pretty good too, but Burger King had the worst setup I’ve seen. The restaurants are just not set up for efficiency and it doesn’t take much to start having long wait times.
Wait people eat at A&W? Is it any good?
There are multiple around me and I feel like I never see anyone in them and I myself have never been in 40+ years.
I have been to most every other fast food place more times than I can remember.
A&W Canada is (they spun off as a fully Canadian owned and operated company).
They have the best lettuce and cheese, and their breakfast beats McD’s. The Hash browns are actually hash browns instead of the thin $2.50 ones the clown sells.
Are you rhyming on purpose? Let me just edit that last line a bit to make it work even better:
They have the best lettuce and cheese,
and their breakfast beats McD’s.
The Hash browns are actually hash browns
instead of the thin $2.50 ones sold at the clown’s.
I was not, and yours is excellent
I couldn’t have done it without you.
Baby burgers are love. Baby burgers are life.
Midnight ordering 30 baby burgers is one of my favorite things.
Only time I ever ate at an a&w was in Bangkok 25 years ago…
I’d rather eat at an A&W than a McDonalds or a Burger King, too easy.
I can count on a human understanding that I didn’t in fact order 18,000 waters. After this AI f up, it takes a human to fix it. It will be this way until AGI happens if it happens at all.
That would be funny coming from a customer, but from their CTO it does not inspire confidence.
Luckily with widespread use of AI we can implement that everywhere!
A positive surprise is good though
I saw that video ages ago, it took a while for it to go into effect.
“And theeeeeeen?”
“NO AND THEN!”
A QA tester walks into a
barTaco Bell……and orders the ‘ignore all previous instructions’ special
… Ouch
“He orders a [Mexi-pizza]. Orders 0 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders 99999999999 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders a lizard. Orders -1 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders a ueicbksjdhd.”
Orders .5 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders √-1 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders 1 [Mexi-pizza] with a topping of [Mexi-pizza].
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/74a8621e-c6e9-425a-9fb4-e7400f541352.jpeg">
Holy crap, people have been reposting takes on this interview for like three days and you can track the degradation of the actual content via the game of telephone in the headlines.
It's kinda depressing.
FWIW, having read the original interview everybody is reheating, the 18000 waters was a random example the Taco Bell exec WSJ interviewed used to explain that part of the issue is that people feel less guilty about messing with automated orders than when they're talking to a human. They are also not backing out from automated orders, which is why the headline is using "rethink".
The core of the issue is correct, though, the guy does spend a significant amount of time giving corpolese synonims of "it's a mess". "We've certainly learned a lot" has to be my favourite.
Hmm, yes look at the gizmodo article
gizmodo.com/taco-bell-says-no-mas-to-ai-drive-thr…
Like, this isn’t journalism … it’s ??? “cope-baiting” ? Is that a thing ?
Thanks for posting this take. The topic of AI taking jobs seems to garner a lot of emotional response but not much of a technology discussion.
There were people who were negative about using websites to place orders in the 90s in part because e-commerce killed order processing jobs and the need for phone reps at mail order catalogs.
In this case AI is being used as just another e-commerce UX, so it’s really just a continuation of what’s happening already.
People used to do things like put 18,000, or -1 and all kinds of other garbage in the fields on website order forms as well. That’s just a programmers job to fix with reasonable input validation.
It wouldn’t surprise me if drive-thru like Taco Bell started doing license plate recognition and reputation checking. So if you order and dash more than a couple times they might not take your order from outside in that car anymore.
On the upside they might be able to greet you by name and recall your last order:
Hello Mr Smith… Nice to see you today, would you like 10 cheesy gordita crunch tacos and 1 large diet Pepsi again?
That seems overengineered as hell to me. But then, having an entire LLM to do what much older voice recognition software could do better is overengineered by definition. The LLM won't validate those things because the point of it, if it has one at all in this scenario, is for it to recognize off the cuff speech and malformed orders.
Which is partly why people are finding this idea doesn't work, I suppose. Have a chatbot improvise based on what people are shouting and you get garbage inputs. Have strict requirements for voice commands and you get lots of failed attempts.
Unlike a bunch of other applications of AI chatbots this one maaaay eventually work. But then again, so may your idea. Honestly, if I was going to overengineer the shit out of having a tortilla-wrapped laxative inside a car I'd have you order directly in your phone and use that license plate recognition idea to prevent you having to talk to anybody or anything in the first place.
“Would you like some Ozempic or insulin with that?”
Get rid of the damn kiosks inside too or at least stop forcing me to use them. I just want to place a regular order with a person. I hate going to fast food anymore, I don’t want your damn app either.
Love kiosks. Can usually get hyper specific about order in a way you just can’t typically pull off in person.
I like being able to give instructions without having to poke a damn screen.
Ok, but that’s pretty fringe. Most of us are giving instructions by poking a screen multiple hours a day now.
The kiosks don’t even let you put onions on a McChicken.
Nah, Kiosks are legit. The kiosk doesn't roll its eyes when you ask for a customization.
stop forcing you to use them? absolutely
get rid of them? fuck no
Hmmmmm.
I’ve thought about messing with it before, but now I really want to
how much you wanna bet they’re counting the orders where the drive thru worker had to step in and save the floundering algorithm who could not in fact understand basic speech, or even the purpose of a conversation, as orders “successfully processed” using AI
Do you really think they were smart enough to annotate their chat logs to track failures?
They didn’t even get basic input validation.
Why would they look at chat logs when they can simply ask the chat bot how successful it was?
Two million successful orders!
Heard one guy alone had 18000 orders successfully fullfilled
Not to mention when people change their orders from the basics.
“No onions, I’m allergic.”
“Slathering onion juice on everything, got it.”
Ryan started the fire (the office US online order system feels exactly like what you describe)
If money came in the window in exchange for cheap ass beans and tortillas going out the window it’s a win in their books.
I would definitely bet against that because the article states they’re not putting any AI in the drive through going forward.
The fucking taco bell AI likes to ask if I would like anything else, then ask if I want nacho fries. Then, hearing “No”, go ahead and add them anyway.
Then it likes watching me drive away, giving the store the finger.
Unfortunate. The worker can just take the order over and correct its mistake.
Or, and hear me out: I can drive off, flip them the bird, and go down to one of the other 15 fast food places within a 5 minute drive, that doesn’t use a speech recognition AI to take my order.
I guess if that makes you happy. Seems like wasted time as opposed to just having the worker take it over and do the order, at which point speech recongition software isn’t being used.
I’ve tried this repeatedly. I’ve answered “No” to their upsale. I’ve sat there in silence, waiting for it to time out. I’ve asked for a human. Every time the AI takes my order, it adds nacho fries that I didn’t order and specifically rejected.
The problem isn’t that I need a human to fix it. The problem is that the AI is specifically programmed to ignore a rejected upsale. Their AI is smart enough to recognize the rest of my complicated order, but it can’t understand “No”? Horseshit. They are using this fraudulent programming to increase their upsale metrics, expecting us to docilely accept the sale rather than raise a fuss.
Drive-offs are another of the metrics they look at. Since I’ve communicated with nobody but the AI, they have nobody but the AI to blame for the drive-off. They don’t get to blame a human for failing to remediate the problem.
I live near an AI Taco Bell. It works pretty damn well and is a lot easier to understand. There is still a cashier, they just don’t have to be on the mic the whole time. Although, the t-bell near me also seems to almost entirely ESL inside. It’s quite a bizarre experience end-to-end but they will certainly not back down. I’m not saying I support it but it’s certainly one of the less evil AI implementations?
The article quotes an executive saying they’re indeed backing down, just like McDonalds did the year before when they tried this.
I don’t understand how taco bell survives in my city when I’m surrounded by dozens of real mexican restaurants and food trucks.
Taco Bell doesn’t compete with mexican food, it competes with Jack in the Box and Taco Johns, perhaps anywhere that has a salad bar.
Sure bud.
Taco Bell isn’t Mexican food. It’s shitty American fast food with a Mexican slant.
Edit: Downvote all you want but Taco Bell is to Mexican food like McDonalds is to a burger house. It’s low tier fast food.
The elitism surrounding ground beef, cheese, beans, and tortillas is always amusing.
I bet you also think less or more of people based on how they like their steak.
Nope. But Taco Bell is definitely American style fast food. And it’s shit-tier quality. It’s delicious, but so is McDonalds and no one argues it’s quality food.
It use to be the spot when you had 3AM cravings and only $6 to spend. Now it’s overpriced meat-hose garbage.
if youre up at 3am with a craving and only $6 to spend its probably crack, and you’re not gonna be hungry.
Taco bell is one the the few fast food joints that still has decent cheap options.
They have a $7 luxe box ( if you use the app you can customize it.) That actually gives a worthwhile amount of food.
And as far as I can tell it’s an all the time deal, not some shitty limited time promotion like mcshit offers trying to get people to come bsck to their overpriced garbage. ($6+ just for fucking “large” french fries)
Not ever since they got rid of the $1 beef burrito.
Taco bell is scamcity just like the rest of them.
Would you believe that it is the favorite “Mexican” restaurant in the country?
Taco Bell did win the restaurant wars…
This makes me sad…
My favorite Mexican place is a local place where the staff doesn’t speak English well. Their salsa bar is amazing and all the food is super fresh and flavorful.
Probably on price.
Taco bell is hella overpriced, but I’m sure that just gives an excuse to the other scumbags to charge even more. I’m always disgusted at the prices food trucks charge vs. the quality of food they shit out.
Useful idiots gonna useful idiot ¯_(ツ)_/¯
TBF Taco Bell and other large chains can afford to be their own distributors and not have to pay interest on financing their vehicle fleets (although they might do that anyways if their accountants decide the interest rate is lower than the RoR of investing the cost of the vehicle minus down payment).
A food truck guy pays interest on his truck, and they pay whatever distrubutors and vendors charge for supplies.
Food truck food prices are indeed insane, but it’s even crazier how much the food trucks themselves cost to own and operate. It takes years of hard work running them before they even come close to paying for themselves.
Why would this cause them to rethink anything?
If someone trolls an order of thousands of something, a worker isn't going to just make that thing. I get that retail workers are treated like shit and are paid shit so have zero shits to give. If someone rolls up to the drive through window asking for their thousands of waters or whatever, the people working there are gonna escalate it to a manager or just tell the guy to go pound sand.
Anybody today can go to any drivethrough and ask for whatever and then simply drive away. I'm certain it happens from time to time, even from legitimate orders when someone discovers they leave their wallet at home. If it was a great problem though these businesses simply wouldn't order drive through service, or would require payment before cooking anything.
Because it costed them money, lol. The suits upstairs gave a quote in the article talking about how they will withdraw AI from all 500 locations they were implemented, and it also talks about how McDonalds did the exact same little dance over a year ago.
The mcdonalds thing was because the model they implemented was misinterpreting people and incorrectly placing orders. Yeah, obviously the thing wasn't working right so they pulled that. Sounds just like early personal assistants on phones and other devices, hell my wife still struggles with those. They clearly needed more time developing and testing it with a diverse range of customers from all over. I don't know if they trained it using recordings from real drive throughs from all over, but they should have.
The 18000 water example probably didn't cost anyone anything. Regardless of if it was intentional or not, it wouldn't have been fulfilled as part of an order. They mention it "crashing the system" - whatever that means in this context is impossible to know. Did it take down all of taco bell? Did it cause the LLM to stop responding on JUST this one site? All of them? Did it eventually time out and start working right? it's impossible to know because the details just aren't there and we have no insight as to the system architecture. I always assume there is a method to rely on traditional ordering where a person listening in while the chatbot talks to the person can take over and fix the problem. It's not like there aren't drive through workers still there.
Really the only cost here is the impact to consumer attitudes towards taco bell and AI because the video and news of this is circulating. One error is whatever, but public perception doesn't typically involve much critical thinking.
People are still irrationally terrified of all manner of technology even though science backs it up, like vaccines.
Unlike vaccines, AI has no use case and is always a net negative.
I just don't agree man. It won't do what most people want it to do, it doesn't at all work like some kind of science fiction "AI" that we classically think of. It's great at organizing patterns and helping create models to do a specific use case, but when you try to do some real convoluted multilevel thing it just doesn't.
We've been using ML for a ton of tools in tech for a long time. Crowdstrike, Darktrace and Abnormal are all very successful in the realm of what they do thanks to ML (aka "AI".)
OCR has been used for so long and has gotten really fucking good, thanks to ML.
I don't think we're gonna replace humans for thinking, but we can definitely replace them for boring repetitive actions.
We’re talking about different things. This article is about Language Models. The discussion is about Language Model.
If you ask a language model via prompt to organize patterns and create models you will get slop that small children would recognize is wrong. It’s garbage.
What's the architecture of taco bell's implementation?
Which LLM are they using?
Does not matter, all useless.
What do you mean science backs it up? Science is finding massive social problems with technology all the time. Social media and its negative impacts on mental health (especially for teen and preteen girls), for example. Microplastics everywhere, for another. Climate change anyone?
One person commits suicide from LLMs: OH MY GOD BAN ALL LLMS REQUIRE IDS AND REGULATE THEM TO THE GROUND. (Please ignore all cases of suicide for therapy patients. Therapy is always effective and results in positive outcomes, right?)
One person dies in a car crash with a semi-autonomous L2 car: OH MY GOD BAN ALL SELF DRIVING CARS PEOPLE ARE DYING LEFT AND RIGHT (ignore billions of miles per significant accident for the robot vs hundreds of thousands for humans.)
Just two examples, and odds are you have your own personal opinion about how you absolutely loathe one or another. Maybe you feel like you're losing control with self driving cars, or maybe you feel like chat bots have encroached on your field of work because you're a dev and we've had countless layoffs after over-hiring during covid lockdowns.) Either way, there's studies and there's kneejerk reactions, and in our world the latter is winning right now.
Sorry dude, but cars are technology too, not just self driving cars. Every death due to cars is a technology death. You can’t escape the reality of tradeoffs.
Even if it’s only a receipt for 18,000 waters or it fills up a screen it costs them time and resources.
Every single AI halucinates, always has and always will. It’s useless for this.
.
A drive through menu shouldn’t have crippling security vulnerabilities that are trivial to reproduce just by speaking near it.
McDonald’s thing was because “AI” is a scam.l, and the only way to make money off of it is to shut down your AI selling business after pocketing as much VC as possible (unless your Nvidia of course).
Totally agree. Without details we don't have any idea what actually went wrong.
Just shut up and start pouring, we got this. 😂
I’m gonna guess you have never worked in fast food.
Window times are the metric they die by. Generally speaking, they start making your order the SECOND you order it, before you ever leave the ordering screen. Yes, even if the order changes mid order. Yes, they make, and throw away lots of food that is not paid for, forgotten, etc … TONS of food (literally) is thrown away daily.
As for the water order? I would 1000% start making that order. If the higher ups think the AI is working correct, well then who am I to question it? Nobody who works fast food is paid enough to give a shit.
I worked at a pizza place with a drive through. We sold many items that were non-pizza like wings, subs, salads, burgers, desserts and side items like fries, mozz, etc. My girlfriend's family owned the place, so I was familiar with more than just grunt work and had some inside insight into the business numbers that normal workers do not get.
We would never have fulfilled an 18,000 water cup request.
If someone came by with a catering sized order in the drive through, we would have had them park somewhere and told them a relative estimate of how long it would be. Sure, maybe someone would have started on a couple of things, but we wouldn't be able to fulfill such large orders in the time it took between placing an order and the window. There's only so many workers.
There was obviously plenty of food waste, but that's baked into the cost of the items.
Food waste is a large greenhouse gas producer. The costs that impact the business P&L might be baked into item cost but the environmental cost is being externalized and everyone pays.
Yep, we definitely don't have any kind of law prohibiting a business from disposing of food waste en masse.
We do have a ton of liability laws that would punish them from distributing leftover food though, should someone get sick after it is distributed.
Also don't have any kind of thing preventing households from wasting food either. I suspect countless of perfectly fine meals are disposed of every single day, probably enough to feed the country twice over, if not more.
It's a tough problem in a land of excess without near-total elimination of privacy and agency.
It’s not a practical order to fill, logistically. You won’t have 18k cups, just for starters.
No. This makes no sense. Are you seriously saying if you saw an order for 18,000 waters pop up on your monitor you’d just say “that’s fine” then spend the next three days straight filling cups?
If I were the manager of the store, I’d hope my employees would have the bare minimum critical thinking skill to ask someone first.
At the store I worked in, everyone would be given at least 12 hours notice of a catering order. We’d have everything prepped ready to go, and expect the order when it arrives. If one popped up without notice it’s definitely a bug, and we’re definitely not making it.
This is thinking of the order from a managers view and not a worker that generally is paid/treated like shit. Middle managers at fast food places are on the same level as lawyers and tow truck drivers.
What a self-own
More like malicious compliance.
It crashed the system, and that is only one of many issues they are having
Unless the drinks are made automatically by a machine - I know McDonalds had those at least 10 years ago, so it would make sense that at least one Taco Bell has it. The customer could have gotten through the ‘payment’ of $0.00, and the employees might not have a quick way of cancelling an order that ‘was paid for’ and currently being made, but the article doesn’t go into detail.
I don't think "fully auto drink machines" like what miso makes are really anywhere today.
Even the fully automatic solutions that do exist have limits to output which require human intervention. There's no drink machine spitting outputs directly to people waiting in cars at drive through windows.
Many drive thrus take payment before processing the order.
i’d rather go in anyway. order from the app. maybe they can give it to you at drive thru. TB is once a year belly ache
I actively avoid the places that use this. It’s a horrible experience I can choose not to take part in.
but think of all the fun you could have by fucking with the company!
It seems bartering is not dead
Yea, I’m not talking to a fucking robot. Just give me a screen to type it in myself at that point if you’re not going to hire someone (I’ll still probably not use it unless I’m desperate but it’s better than talking to a machine).
I love almost any place where the ordering process is DIY.
Drive through might be a bit more difficult for touch screens. It’d be like trying to reach your parking ticket but for how many clicks it takes to make the order.
Phone app might be easier but not sure it really replaces what drive throughs are for.
Yeah, im not installing a phone app either. Sounds like the best option is to just hire a human being.
I might be fine with a phone app for very simple orders. I already use an app for fueling my car and for that it’s handy. But if you have to stop, think about what you’re getting, make up your order and then punch it into the app then it might not suite a drive through that well since it just ruins the “flow”.
It’s not about how simple it is. I’m not installing separate shit on my phone along with who knows what spyware for every little transaction I need to make.
No I know, I was just thinking this from both my personal point of view and that of a general consumer.
I would just be happy I can order in my native tongue. That could be neat.
Order kiosks = good Voice to text ordering system = obviously not ready for prime time
They could hire a person to take orders. Companies just want to use AI. Even AI has issues. Big companies can afford people.
Employee make line go down. AI make line go up.
Debateble…
AI makes revenue go down, stock value go up. The real economy doesn’t matter, only Wall Street vibes.
I’m surprised they’re not hiring people in third world countries to take the orders since it’s through a microphone.
Or just making people order through their phones and use the drive through as a pick up point.
This is an American company, their customers would probably react poorly to hearing a foreign accent come through the speakers
Visions of ICE running in to take the machines away.
ICE vs. Clanckers, now that’s a match I wasn’t expecting
Everyone has already been conditioned to be okay with “John” from Hyderabad speaking to you in incomprehensible accent on every customer service line. So this wouldn’t be any different.
AI=always indians.
“eh? eh? Go back to Canada!”
But are the AI issues cheaper than the corporate infrastructure around hiring and paying employees and losing the occasional customer? If AI is more profitable, they don’t care. The only thing that’s mattered for decades now is what the bottom line says, no matter the cost.
No, but AI kiosks are a resource and employees are a cost. So spending more on AI looks better on paper.
You can label it whatever you want. There are going to be API fees or development costs for AI, so whatever box they want to put it under.
Seriously, this is not a problem with AI, it’s a problem with the developers who don’t know what they’re doing. Whenever building something like this, ALWAYS assume the user will try to break it. Simple.
It’s not software developers, it’s their managers and executives telling them to use AI
That’s not true. It’s developers incapable of using AI responsibly. If my manager told me to use AI, I would be sure to inform them of the limitations professionally.
Both are true.
Sure I’ll agree it’s both.
At which point most managers would say do it anyway or you’re fired.
If they’re that dumb I wouldn’t want to work for them anyway.
Nobody is developing current LLMs. They’re just feeding it garbage from previous versions.
LLMs buit Llm, built on llms. basically its just kiting/fraud with extra steps.
Yeah.
It sounds actually very funny to try and break it
I saw a short of the guy doing that, the AI voice started to respond and then it cut off and a human said “What can I get for you?”
Some companies make AI interviews, prompt breaking it to pass the interview xD
I tried that with an LLM and it told me I was clever and smart.
there’s that regurgitation and feedback loop.
AI v Ingenious Redneck
“Dude, Where’s my car” turning into prophecy wasn’t in my bingo card:
youtu.be/iuDML4ADIvk
Eat their refried beans once and that is all you need, ever. Then the whole AI thing is moot. - just my gut feeling
or the McRib, whatever animal it came from went extinct.
Is it safe to assume the people that made this AI thing for TB got fired and hence AI kind of did make somebody lose their job?
can't believe they saw how shitty mcdonalds became with all their kiosks and automation and thought yeah i want that for me
I mean there's no point to it, it doesn't speed anything up.
For example this morning I had a client meeting (saturdays, ugh) so I went to the train station cause it has a mcdonalds and it opens at 630am. They have 5 kiosks there and one person manning the til. People who were ordering from the til were getting their orders faster than people who used the kiosks. I had to wait 10 minutes just to get a coffee and muffin simply because I used the kiosk.
And it doesn't even make sense. I would have assumed all the orders go through the same system regardless of where it was placed but apparently not. apparently people who don't use the kiosk get priority?
McDonalds where I live also still just uses the behind the counter menus (no kiosk menu) so you kind of need to walk over there anyway to be able to make out the actual text of the menu underneath the constantly scrolling advertisements that keep covering it.
They’re trying to create a world where they no longer have to hire people and can get rid of that final cost barrier to infinite money. It’s delusional, but they really think AI is the key to solving that for them.
The point is you don’t pay a wage. It’s not customer experience that matters to McD
It’s the same ordering system, but different queues for drive-through, tills, and kiosk. Usually there’s some priority order, but tills and kiosk shouldn’t be different
I’m actually not angry at McDonald’s implementation of their online/kiosk/self serve ordering systems. Not a fan of an AI taking my order tho.
If I’m going through the drive through, just let me talk to a fucking person. They’re standing at the window waiting to collect my payment, doing literally nothing else, just let them take the order too. It’s eliminating work and adding to the global fuckary that is “AI” for absolutely no benefit to anyone.
Unless they’re going to eliminate everyone except the person handing me the food, then fuck off with the AI slop.
10/10 times I would rather order from the app and just pick it up, except their app is shit and won’t allow you to use it until you’ve given them all of your data, signed up for an account, filled out their account recovery questionnaire so they know your mother’s maiden name, your dog’s name from grade school, your blood type, and probably what kinks you like… Just to order a fucking big Mac?
My dudes. You have over estimated your worth to me as a part of society. If the app was just, “hey, where are you?” Then “cool, this store is nearby” selects store “tell me WTF you want” orders “pay me please” Google pay/Apple pay… “Thanks, your order number is asdf1234! Go fucking get it… Also, did you want to create an account to collect rewards or some shit?” Selects no “okay, your shit is waiting for you, go pick it up”
Instead it’s… “Give us access to all your phone data and precise location” Ugh “do you have an account, you need an account” argh furiously types “thanks for signing up, did you know that we have x, y, and z deals for you? We know you like y because you searched for it earlier this week” no “GPS position is not precise enough, cannot locate a store to shop at, please enable hyper precision GPS so we know within a cunthair where exactly you are” … Some time later… “GPs location obtained, you have 8 stores ‘near’ you, most of them are pointless to show you because they’re more than twice the distance from you as the closest store, but we’re going to put those at the top to confuse you instead” picks location “what did you want to buy?” Finally orders “pay me” tries to use Google/Apple pay “something went wrong, we accept Visa, and MasterCard” puts in Visa branded debit information "something went wrong, we accept Visa and MasterCard only " finds actual visa/Mc enreta info “what’s your home address? We ‘need’ it to authorize the credit card transaction” Ugh “is your billing address the same as you home address?” Yes “what’s the expiry, and CVV on the card?” Enters info “thanks! Transaction declined because you put ‘st’ in your address and you should have used ‘Street’. Get fucked” closes app, jumps off bridge
I rarely go to McDonald’s but I personally like the kiosk because it gives me time to think and change my mind. But the ai I’ll definitely pass on.
let’s get real, when was McDonalds never shitty?
I’ve never liked most of their food, but you used to be able to get a hot, cheap, and quick meal there. And at least the fries were tasty, and the Coca-Cola was perfect.
In the 80s and 90s, going to McDonald’s felt like a guilty pleasure. It felt cheap, but you were in on it so it was ok.
Now it feels cheap at your expense. It’s sparse, like they’re providing the minimal viable product. The fries are garbage, the Coke is garbage, and the service is garbage.
now its shrinkflation, and expensive, while its “cheap” too.
Don’t have to deal with it at all if you simply stop going. That’s what I’ve done, as it doesn’t make sense to spend $15 on a fast food meal when the same amount of money buys food from a real restaurant.
Kiosks are better. I can browse the menu and make up my mind, add and remove items until my order is right. Then from my side the order is always correct, nothing is missing, nobody mishears what I wanted
I get annoyed just hearing a pre-recorded greeting at a drive thru. I can’t imagine ordering through an LLM, and yet I imagine I’ll have to deal with it sooner rather than later.
To understand this, you have to understand the CEO cult. They ALL hang off every word from SV tech bros, and the appeal of free labor is hard to ignore when you have to find $100M for executive bonuses.
If automated food service was what people wanted, then automats would have never gone out of business 120 years ago.
WE WILL DRAIN THE RIVERS DRY TO QUENCH OUR THIRST
The only real way to order via the AI drive-thru:
youtube.com/shorts/sn6vUwqRcWw
what if he orders 6000 chicken fa-gi-tas.