Microsoft CEO says up to 30% of the company's code was written by AI | TechCrunch (techcrunch.com)
from Wispy2891@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 06:20
https://lemmy.world/post/28897929

Now I understand why at each windows 11 update, they introduce more bugs than ever

#technology

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Wispy2891@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 06:24 next collapse

Power move by the zucc by first asking how much genai is used at Microsoft then refusing to answer his own question at Facebook 😂

tal@lemmy.today on 30 Apr 06:31 next collapse

I hope that that’s inclusive of something like lines of documentation in comment lines.

Nighed@feddit.uk on 30 Apr 06:39 next collapse

Would be interesting to see how they measured that metric. Are they tagging individual lines as AI generated?

What those lines are too would be interesting, AI as auto complete is less dangerous than complete generation, but probably also less useful.

BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com on 30 Apr 06:46 next collapse

Most probably Microsoft has set objectives for how much LoC are from LLMs and developers invented numbers to match that metric (because they probably have things more important to do than counting LoC)

MimicJar@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 08:43 collapse

AI as auto complete is exactly what I was thinking.

I’ve seen lots of cases where AI appears as an auto complete suggestion and I can just hit <TAB> and it finishes the current line. It’s essentially filling in the boilerplate text. Heck in some cases it isn’t even right, but it’s close enough that I can change a few values.

I also want to point out that this isn’t particularly new technology. This existed before AI. It has perhaps expanded more, but it isn’t a revolutionary improvement, it’s an incremental one. So when we talk about usefulness, I think it is actually more useful.

Now if it could do all the magic planning and thinking, that would be more useful, but we’re not there yet.

krimson@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 06:42 next collapse

Horseshit.

The current state of code generated by AI is sketchy at best. I often get plain wrong answers because the model tries to derive. It comes up with calls to functions and properties that just do not exist.

“You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.

Apart from that, apps that are glued together from AI generated code are not maintainable at all. What if there is a bug somewhere and you so not comprehend what is actually happening? Ask AI to fix it? Yeah good luck with that.

I do use AI for simple questions, and it works fairly well for that, but this claim by MS is just marketing bullshit.

jordanlund@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 06:57 next collapse

This ^

“20%-30% of code inside the company’s repositories”

Now, if they had said “20%-30% of code written in the past 6 months…” I might buy that.

The repositories are going to have all the current codebase, likely going back years now. AI generated code is barely viable at this point and really only pretty recently.

No way 1/3rd of all current codebase is AI.

taladar@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 07:15 next collapse

Even 20% of new code would be a stretch unless they count every first iteration of code written by AI that needs to be replaced by a human later because it was plain wrong.

Serinus@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 10:22 collapse

Maybe they’re counting the six iterations of code it gives me as I tell it what’s wrong with each one.

anomnom@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 23:24 collapse

20% of code = 20 lines of production code.

TheBlackLounge@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 07:37 next collapse

They mean new code, as per the article. And they mean code gen and IntelliSence

Damage@feddit.it on 30 Apr 10:28 collapse

“Please move all comments from in-line to the line above, and add a separator line”

takeda@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 07:46 next collapse

They say that because they are selling it.

And yeah, my experience is the same. The most frustrating is when writing in a typed python, and it gives answers that are clearly incorrect, making up attributes that don’t even exist etc.

balder1991@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 16:17 collapse

My brother said his superior asked him to use more AI auto complete so that they can brag to investors that X percent of the company’s code is written by AI. This told me everything about the current state of this bullshit.

drunkosaurus@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 30 Apr 08:01 next collapse

Ah but it was nice for a minute imagining microsoft vibe coding windows…

unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de on 30 Apr 09:04 next collapse

It would explain the constant barrage of system breaking bugs and RCE vulns

takeda@lemm.ee on 01 May 00:45 collapse

Turns out they have been using AI for decades.

jaybone@lemmy.zip on 30 Apr 10:54 next collapse

I didn’t RTA, but if they mean ALL code at MS, that just can’t be true. They have legacy stuff going back decades, beyond just their windows platform. There’s no way 30% of all their code is replaced or newly created by AI.

spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 30 Apr 12:40 next collapse

“You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers

The exact same wrong answer. Co-Pilot is especially bad for that. I’m practically giving up using it outside of vs code because the actual copilot AI is dog shit stupid m

fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com on 30 Apr 16:17 next collapse

“Auto complete generated 30% of characters”

Fixed it.

unwarlikeExtortion@lemmy.ml on 30 Apr 19:56 next collapse

“You are right, I made a mistake. Here is a better answer.” Continues to give wrong answers.

To be fair, the AI’s not wrong. It’s probably better, but just a teeny tiny bit so.

Honestly, AI is like a genie - whatever you come up with he’ll just butcher and misinterpret so you start questioning both your own sanity and the semantics of language. Good thing these genies have no wish limit, but bad thing that they murder rainforests while generating their non-sequitur replies.

nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org on 01 May 20:39 collapse

I do use AI for simple questions, and it works fairly well for that, but this claim by MS is just marketing bullshit.

This is my experience. It can be useful for simple things that used to be found with a web search before AI slop broke things. For example, I was having trouble getting a simple CGO program for a POC to communicate with the main Go process. This should have been solvable easily with documentation but the CGO docs are pretty bad and sample code was near impossible to find due to AI slop in the search results. GPT was able to provide the needed sample code to unblock me.

megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 30 Apr 06:57 next collapse

I bet they’re counting code written while someone had an AI plugin installed as “written by AI” and I bet that accounts for almost all of that 30%. On top of that, I’m betting that they made it mandatory to have such a plug in, and the other 70% is just code written before they mandated this.

SandmanXC@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 07:02 next collapse

Also, having 1/3 lines with obvious code that can be auto suggested correctly would make sense, but that is hardly code “written by ai” in the way they suggest.

megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 30 Apr 07:14 next collapse

I’d guess a lot of the people writing the code don’t even have it turned on, it’s just installed because management said it had to be, because management wants to be able to tell investors they’re “innovating work flows”.

bluGill@fedia.io on 30 Apr 15:17 next collapse

Every few months I turn it on for a few days just to see if it is better.

Then I go back to the old AST based autocomplete that actually knows something useful about my code.

balder1991@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 16:21 collapse

I am a small sample to confirm that’s exactly the reason in my brother’s company.

And in my company we’re pressured to make X prompts every week to the company’s own ChatGPT wrapper to show we’re being productive. Even our profit shares have a KPO attached to that now. So many people just type “Hello there” every morning to count as another interaction with the AI.

Nighed@feddit.uk on 30 Apr 07:16 collapse

Those are the easy time savings though, the safe easy stuff the developer doesn’t have to worry about anymore. (Giving them time do the gnarly stuff)

taladar@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 08:32 collapse

It is exactly the opposite, with simple, predictable auto-complete you didn’t have to worry about that anymore, with LLMs you always have to look at it in detail because every little thing could be just plain completely different and wrong.

Nighed@feddit.uk on 30 Apr 08:58 collapse

I can read way faster than I can type though. You still check it, but it’s pretty good as that kind of stuff once you have an example for it to follow.

taladar@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 09:11 collapse

Reading code is usually orders of magnitude slower than writing code. Sure, typing might be slower than reading but to check if it is what you intended you have to understand it too.

mbtrhcs@feddit.org on 30 Apr 09:40 collapse

Well, I’m generally very anti-LLM but as a library author in Java it has been very helpful to create lots of similar overloads/methods for different types and filling in the corresponding documentation comments. I’ve already done all the thinking and I just need to check that the overload makes the right call or does the same thing that the other ones do – in that particular case, it’s faster. But if I myself don’t know yet how I’m going to do something, I would never trust an AI to tell me.

taladar@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 10:30 collapse

Well, okay, I can see how it would be useful in languages like Java that are extremely verbose and have a low expressiveness. Writing Java pretty much was already IDEs with code generation 20 years or so ago because nobody wants to write so much boilerplate by hand.

taladar@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 07:14 collapse

I would be very surprised if 30% of their code lines had even been touched at all by anyone since AI coding assistants became a thing.

megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 30 Apr 07:21 next collapse

I could see stuff getting small changes and them claiming that the entirety of the new version is “written by AI”.

tal@lemmy.today on 30 Apr 08:20 collapse

I wish this shot from The Terminator had the camera showing Sarah Conner’s face instead of Reese’s, because it’d be such an appropriate meme image on multiple levels for when someone makes a misleading claim about some current AI system.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.today/pictrs/image/c37eacf8-77d2-4758-b6ba-a0fadb5ab456.png">

FergleFFergleson@infosec.pub on 30 Apr 07:00 next collapse

Well, that would explain a lot.

I’m also guessing that at “up to 30%” of the company’s leadership decisions are being made by AI too.

ddash@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 30 Apr 07:36 next collapse

“Up to” can also be 0%. Why is there even a need to say “up to” here.

taladar@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 08:32 collapse

So you are saying up to 100% of their code is written by AI?

superkret@feddit.org on 30 Apr 09:19 collapse

Up to 100% of all Windows code was written by a Macaque monkey on meth.

taladar@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 09:30 collapse

So you are saying up to 100% of all Windows code is Mac code?

[deleted] on 30 Apr 09:13 next collapse

.

superkret@feddit.org on 30 Apr 09:14 next collapse

Honestly, I’m not surprised.

IcyToes@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 09:22 next collapse

He used the words “written by software”. This is ambiguous and doesn’t mean AI, for example, using annotations for variables and generating the getters and setters would count. Right click and create function body for interface function definitions also.

They’re exaggerating to pretend their AI is more useful than it is.

MoonRaven@feddit.nl on 30 Apr 10:14 next collapse

Intellisense in visual studio has also been really good for over a decade. Which is technically also written by software and not me.

Serinus@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 13:31 collapse

I mean, really good intellisense is a great improvement, but it’s not replacing devs any time soon.

jaybone@lemmy.zip on 30 Apr 10:59 next collapse

People have been using annotations to generate code since I rode my dinosaur to work.

PlexSheep@infosec.pub on 30 Apr 16:19 collapse

Don’t forget code generation for stuff like bindings or database schemes

kate@lemmy.uhhoh.com on 30 Apr 10:07 next collapse

??? No it’s not! Can investors sue because this is such an obvious lie? Pls I have 0.3 Microsoft shares

kate@lemmy.uhhoh.com on 30 Apr 10:09 collapse

Are they including code generated to test their own models capability maybe?

Pirata@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 11:29 next collapse

So this explains why Microsoft Swiftkey is total dogshit now. Also why the Outlook app barely works.

Its unbelievable.

Lemminary@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 15:29 collapse

I used to be able to swipe freely on SwiftKey, and now I can’t really do it without being extra careful and mindful of not spelling the wrong thing. Idk what Microsoft did to the product but I wouldn’t call it an improvement.

Pirata@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 15:43 collapse

Idk what Microsoft did to the product but I wouldn’t call it an improvement.

I think the article we’re looking at here isn’t really hyperbolic. They got AI to write all their code and broke the Keyboard.

Just FYI, if you can live without swipping, I recommend FUTO keyboard., it is basically Swiftkey but it actually works and doesn’t come with Microsoft’s spyware built in.

It’s what I use now, and I’m really happy. Don’t be fooled by it being in Alpha, because it works flawlessly (minus the swipe, which is hit and miss).

Lemminary@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 16:08 collapse

Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll check it out

ExtantHuman@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 12:40 next collapse

This only makes sense if they are counting intellisense auto complete as “AI written”

shalafi@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 15:48 next collapse

Has to be something like that. Nadella is somehow cheating with the number, trying to keep the AI hype going.

You could say ALL of my latest scripts were written with AI. Because I often use it to get a hint or gather some boilerplate code (which I still go over and modify).

purplemonkeymad@programming.dev on 30 Apr 17:33 collapse

Was the auto complete in visual studio not a “trained” set before the llm craze kicked off? Would not surprise me if they decided to include that.

magnetosphere@fedia.io on 30 Apr 12:55 next collapse

That’s… not something to be proud of.

Zink@programming.dev on 30 Apr 13:49 next collapse

Eww. Maybe it’s not really true and Microsoft just wants to remind us that big corporate AI is so legit that all the software you use all day was “helped” by it.

But really for me the issue is the company, not the AI. If I read an article about AI generated code making it into the Linux kernel or some gnu/kde/etc utilities, I don’t think I would worry much because those changes will be reviewed by cranky old nerds who care about the functionality of the software first. I have no such confidence in Microsoft’s processes.

daddycool@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 14:06 next collapse

Well, that explains Windows 11.

gerryflap@feddit.nl on 30 Apr 14:07 next collapse

Yeah that’d explain some stuff. Happy to have switched to Linux

lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 30 Apr 15:44 collapse

Same. My games even run faster.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 30 Apr 14:09 next collapse

I’m still forced to use Microsoft Outlook and teams, unfortunately, and boy oh boy is it bad.

Yesterday i spent 45 minutes of a 1,5 meeting (that would have been 45 minutes) on trying teams to please try and use the right microphone, please share a screen (not working under Firefox or chrome now, apparently)

I can’t wait for the day that I have some time to get us off that dog shit

Lemminary@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 15:27 next collapse

not working under Firefox

Weird

or chrome

Oh, there it is

Feature exclusive, huh!

shalafi@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 15:46 next collapse

Outlook is pretty damned bullet proof, Teams, OTOH, is a fucking mess. I can see IT wanting to keep everything in the same ecosystem, that’s perfectly sane, but I’m certain Zoom can be setup to honor AD credentials. We set it to use Google SSO.

jabeez@lemmy.today on 30 Apr 16:39 next collapse

Ha, yeah my Outlook will randomly just not be able to connect to server when starting up. This is from fresh boot every day, some days it just can’t, have to reboot and then it works! Fucking brilliant, they managed to break email.

andallthat@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 16:43 collapse
Blackmist@feddit.uk on 30 Apr 17:07 collapse

I love that Outlook occasionally fires up one of its keyboard shortcuts and clears your entire email you were typing if you’re not paying attention.

Fucking love it.

Mio@feddit.nu on 30 Apr 15:35 next collapse

And how many times was all that code rewritten?

GooberEar@lemmy.wtf on 30 Apr 16:33 next collapse

This makes sense and would explain the mainline windows versioning and probably the xbox versioning too!

Microsoft to AI: List all the integers from one to eleven.

AI: 3. 95. 98. 2000. XP. Vista. 7. 8. 10. 11.

andallthat@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 16:49 next collapse

Fun fact: Nadella has been replaced with an AI agent a couple of months ago and nobody has noticed yet. “Copilot, while I’m away, generate bs on AI adoption and fire a bunch of employees, ok?”

aesthelete@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 16:51 next collapse

It shows

M0oP0o@mander.xyz on 30 Apr 18:15 next collapse
nectar45@lemmy.zip on 30 Apr 18:21 collapse

That explains so much

whotookkarl@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 16:58 next collapse

Code written by software doesn’t mean AI unless you ignore compilers

Executives lie to boost profits and justify their decisions, I doubt MS execs even know how much of their code is AI generated just like the ad sales company exec they were talking to in the article

Steamymoomilk@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 17:19 next collapse

If this were true there would massive databreaches. AI is really bad at keeping private keys private. Not to even mention the default credentials it would use because it doesnt have commen sense to change them

PresidentCamacho@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 17:38 next collapse

I disagree. It feels like your making this assumption from the point of view that people using AI to develop turn their whole brain off and let AI take the wheel. Any dev I know using AI uses it as a time saving measure, i.e. advanced autocomplete, or to assist with troubleshooting as a form of advanced search engine. Also you would have no need to give the AI the actual key itself, at most you would give it the title of the variable the key is saved as.

ripcord@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 18:07 collapse

I find it hard to believe because I work at an adjacent company who has made similar claims and it is complete bullshit.

I do think there is some about of “AI provided a smart complete and the developer hit ‘tab’ to take the changes” equalling “this code was written by AI” in some metrics that go to the execs. And since the execs mandated high AI use everyone is fine just saying they have high AI use regardless of how true it is.

ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 20:25 collapse

Likely a lot of manpower were focused on that, and/or the employees rather wrote their own code then lied about the AI use (heard a lot about it).

sqibkw@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 18:30 next collapse

Windows hate train looks fun, but as someone who works in the industry, most of that code is probably just unit tests and boilerplate stuff.

Copilot is decent at quickly writing huge amounts of mostly correct, tedious unit test code, depending on your language/framework. And since Microsoft works with languages like C# and .NET for their native apps, and likely backend too, there is quite a bit of verbosity that Copilot can take care of. Also, documentation might count as well.

No real code is AI-generated. He’s just saying shit like this to keep idiot investors happy.

alecbowles@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 22:54 next collapse

Isn’t that the problem tho. He’s the CEO of Microsoft which is supposed to be a bight end technology firm saying bullshit

MCasq_qsaCJ_234@lemmy.zip on 01 May 05:30 collapse

Operations are one thing, but investors are another. The latter don’t know the sector, but they want profits.

So you have to convince them not to interfere with your activities, because they can make things worse.

alecbowles@lemm.ee on 01 May 11:51 collapse

I appreciate this explanation. But it doesn’t make it right, does it?

MCasq_qsaCJ_234@lemmy.zip on 01 May 05:16 next collapse

Thanks for the context

10001110101@lemm.ee on 01 May 09:36 collapse

I’d guess it’s mostly the AI autocomplete stuff. I.e. you keep on typing until the AI guesses it right then press tab to save keystrokes. LLMs are really bad at making test cases in my experience; they, ironically, can’t do the simple but nuanced computations needed to figure out what the output should be given the inputs, or to recognize and test the edge cases.

sqibkw@lemmy.world on 01 May 14:52 collapse

Oh yeah it can’t do anything complicated, only on simple modules. And I usually give it pretty detailed instructions on my expected I/O. It just converts a few sentences of English to dozens of lines of code.

drmoose@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 18:37 next collapse

They include tab complete of github copilot which is often as much as a single dot. Same thing they’ve done with all github copilot stats.

Reygle@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 18:41 next collapse

They’re attempting to make excuses for their inability to create functional software

megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 01 May 00:09 collapse

They’re lying about using AI to write software, they probably have required all their programmers to have an AI plugin installed, and are thus counting any code they make as “written by AI”, and then are counting any minor edit to existing code as the entire thing being “written by AI”.

The software is bad because it’s written to serve the infinite growth imperative. The reason they claim they’re writing code with AI is because that being true is the only hope that they have for achieving the infinite growth imperative. It’s a con, it’s a cult, they are extracting as much value as they can before everything falls apart.

sunglocto@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 30 Apr 18:43 next collapse

Not suprised

Lanske@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 18:51 next collapse

That’s why their products are so crappy!

phantomwise@lemmy.ml on 30 Apr 18:58 next collapse

No way, they get their results through honest effort. Anyone can make crappy AI products now, but Microsoft have been doing crappy products the hard way for decades. Don’t downplay their hard work !

Coreidan@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 20:35 collapse

What? There products have long been shit ever before AI was even a thing.

Anyone remember windows ME? I sure as fuck do.

MeaanBeaan@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 19:25 next collapse

Everybody saying this is why their products are shit are really confusing me. It’s not like Microsoft just started being terrible. They’ve been terrible for a real long time. Way before AI was a thing. This is just a symptom of Microsoft’s awfulness not a reason for it.

Wispy2891@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 19:28 next collapse

There were alpha versions of windows 8 with less glaring/annoying bugs than windows 11, though

conditional_soup@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 19:42 next collapse

My windows 11 gaming machine has done all manner of fucky stuff, including permanently losing desktop icons seemingly at random and just whole ass refusing to open the file explorer for six months.

daggermoon@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 19:48 collapse

You can install Dolphin file manager on Windows. File Explorer has sucked at least since Windows 11 was released.

conditional_soup@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 20:03 collapse

I’m just saying, it’s the most basic program there is for a user-friendly OS, how do you launch to market with a fucked up file explorer? And nah, we’re going to Linux once they start pushing windows 12.

lightnsfw@reddthat.com on 30 Apr 20:11 collapse

Why wait?

conditional_soup@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 20:29 next collapse

Mostly because when I switched my personal machine, there were a few small, weird issues with everything from not being able to do multiplayer on indie games to the grass, and only the grass as opposed to everything green, being blue in Baldur’s Gate 3. Working through those problems didn’t bother me, I’ve got the gumption and patience for it, the rest of my family does not. I’m giving the game industry a bit more time to smooth things out before I move the family gaming machine over.

alphabethunter@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 21:51 collapse

I’m waiting to make a pc upgrade and buy new storage, then I’m switching.

ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 20:22 collapse

Windows 11 is so terrible so far that if I’ll need to use Windows 10 for dev reasons, I’ll either pirate the extended support patches, or use a shitbox (obsolete PC for optimization purposes) disconnected from the internet. I do fear that I might have to hack a GUI onto LDB or GDB, because I got too used to RemedyBG (I’m already using Kate).

D_C@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 22:19 next collapse

Ok, it’s like this.
Ms used to release shitty stuff. And they’ll continue to release shitty stuff except now it’ll be 30% more shitty.

megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 30 Apr 23:59 collapse

The AI is not the reason their software is bad, but their software is bad for the same reason they’re claiming to use AI to write it.

vane@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 19:31 next collapse

If they start with those products today with zero marketing budged and zero user base nobody would use it. Those CEOs are just clowns.

RagingRobot@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 20:39 collapse

Even worse, whenever a good new technology does pop up they buy it and ruin it.

hubobes@sh.itjust.works on 30 Apr 20:14 next collapse

50% of my code is written by Intellisense…

finitebanjo@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 20:24 next collapse

Yikes

echodot@feddit.uk on 30 Apr 20:52 next collapse

And 100% of their product names are generated by AI. No human would be stupid enough to change something’s name for zero reason.

russjr08@bitforged.space on 30 Apr 22:17 next collapse

No human would be stupid enough to change something’s name for zero reason.

Well, unless you’re a product manager at Google apparently… Though with them you’re lucky if its just a change of name rather than it becoming an entirely “new” thing, or just getting outright axed…

Taleya@aussie.zone on 30 Apr 23:02 collapse

coughs

SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org on 30 Apr 22:04 next collapse

Boy am I glad not having to touch their software.

GreenKnight23@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 22:24 next collapse

this makes way more sense than hundreds of shitty devs.

toastmeister@lemmy.ca on 30 Apr 22:56 next collapse

Even their AI crashes all the time, its brutal.

RedditIsDeddit@lemmy.world on 30 Apr 23:19 collapse

this is why I get so much business as a IT consultant lol

mavu@discuss.tchncs.de on 30 Apr 22:34 next collapse

We know Microsoft.

Hardly possible not to noticce…

WhatSay@slrpnk.net on 30 Apr 22:48 next collapse

So the CEO is trying to tell investors that they are saving money by not paying employees. But to me it sounds more like: we are letting our sub-par products continue to enshitify, and any other company using AI to program will be equal competition.

easily3667@lemmus.org on 30 Apr 23:03 next collapse

What products do they have that are enshittifying?

Here is the definition: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification

WhatSay@slrpnk.net on 30 Apr 23:28 next collapse

Windows 11 was much much shittier, idk about the rest of their products, I haven’t used them.

And I switched over to steamOS, so I won’t be using any of their products again.

easily3667@lemmus.org on 01 May 02:05 collapse

You didn’t read the definition, moving on

dai@lemmy.world on 01 May 13:33 next collapse

Man, chill. Break the word down.

En - Into / Become Shit - Da poo poo Fication - The process of becoming

BrowseMan@sh.itjust.works on 01 May 15:34 collapse

Enshittification, also known as crapification and platform decay, is a pattern in which online products and services decline in quality over time. Initially, vendors create high-quality offerings to attract users, then they degrade those offerings to better serve business customers, and finally degrade their services to users and business customers to maximize profits for shareholders.

Yes, we are in the third phase: service to user is free diving in order to increase money to M$ shareholders?

lemmy_get_my_coat@lemmy.world on 01 May 00:15 next collapse

What products do they have that aren’t?

easily3667@lemmus.org on 01 May 02:05 collapse

You didn’t read the definition, so im moving on.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 02 May 06:25 collapse

You said this a lot, but you seem more like you took offence than like you’re moving on.

It comes across as you dismissing people’s points because they didn’t debate by the rules you invented for them to speak.

It’s not a computer science word, it’s an IT word, and I’m afraid you’re going to have to live with people being a bit imprecise with it.

Why not link to the article coining the term? It’s well written and explains well.

eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 May 00:24 next collapse

Here’s the list of what they are enshittifying: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_software

easily3667@lemmus.org on 01 May 02:04 collapse

Ok so you don’t know the definition, moving on

EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world on 01 May 02:26 next collapse

Hmm seems like he do

YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today on 01 May 03:36 next collapse

Imagine simping for a trillion dollar company. Lol

Brumefey@sh.itjust.works on 01 May 05:42 next collapse

You look like a very fun person to spend time with (/s)

JcbAzPx@lemmy.world on 01 May 18:28 next collapse

It’s seems more that you don’t really know the definition.

[deleted] on 02 May 05:19 collapse

.

killingspark@feddit.org on 01 May 05:28 next collapse

Have you not noticed that the Windows search has become a meme for being really useful in windows seven and useless in newer versions because it started

  1. Searching the web and asking an ai for answers without you wanting that
  2. In consequence syphoning out each and every search promt
  3. Displaying fucking ads in the fucking search results

And that’s just one example that’s obvious enough to become a meme

BTW: any form of making a Microsoft product worse for profit of Microsoft is enshittification since they have both endusers and sellers of products that only work on windows/in the Microsoft ecosystem locked in with significant costs tied to leaving.

ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml on 01 May 14:25 collapse

I’ve read the article. Search, Notepad, Teams, Excel.

Outlook is stable

easily3667@lemmus.org on 01 May 22:01 collapse

Thank you

I’ll agree with search, notepad (the recent ai add), and teams (since it’s literally enshittifying Skype). Not sure on excel. Excel seems pretty stable.

ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml on 02 May 11:26 collapse

Excel

They started preloading it on windows start due to bloatware and corporate management bullcrap. There was an article about on lemmy a few days ago.

normalexit@lemmy.world on 01 May 05:20 collapse

I think he’s trying to say that their AI writes code good enough for Microsoft. Which is a message to other business leaders that your company too can benefit from copilot, just hand over your credit card!

Microsoft has absolutely gotten worse in the consumer space, but that isn’t really their business these days.

WhatSay@slrpnk.net on 01 May 05:59 next collapse

Good point

wetbeardhairs@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 May 12:37 next collapse

They’re worse in the business space too. Teams is crashing on me daily.

normalexit@lemmy.world on 01 May 17:27 collapse

Teams crashed on me today too! It’s great because it was a meeting with external people, so I had to sit in the waiting room in shame until one of them let me back in.

chilicheeselies@lemmy.world on 01 May 18:41 collapse

They are even worse in the business space for sure.

Tungsten5@lemm.ee on 30 Apr 23:37 next collapse

Well that explains a lot

KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 May 00:01 next collapse

“Written by software” does not inherently mean AI.

Bongles@lemm.ee on 01 May 04:59 next collapse

I vaguely remember talk about companies like Google having software that fixes/writes code and that was ages before LLMs.

urandom@lemmy.world on 01 May 05:43 next collapse

Code generators being a prime and ancient example

petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 01 May 09:50 collapse

Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella said that 20% to 30% of code inside the company’s repositories was “written by software” — meaning AI.

Nadella gave the figure after Zuckerberg asked roughly how much of Microsoft’s code is AI generated today.

I highlighted part of the article for you.

Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.ml on 01 May 00:56 next collapse

Sure as hell feels like it!

Revan343@lemmy.ca on 01 May 01:08 next collapse

Year of the Linux desktop

(Amusing sidenote: my autocomplete’s first suggestion after ‘Linux’ was ‘propaganda’.)

chilicheeselies@lemmy.world on 01 May 18:44 collapse

I think it might actually start coming to fruition now that a lot of games have native support.

One of the only things stopping me from taking the plunge at this point is laziness to soft through all my data and make sure what i need is backed up before firmatting (i know, i need a good backup solution; open to suggestions here)

infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net on 01 May 02:42 next collapse

Government spyware finally has a challenger for the title of “primary reason that most Microsoft software runs like hot garbage”.

joelfromaus@aussie.zone on 01 May 05:42 next collapse

This is my own experience but the past few years Windows has been extremely dependable for me and then in the last few months the updates they’ve have been terrible. I’ve seen more blue screens recently than I have in a lot of years.

All this to say that if it is 30% AI code being used then it’s very telling!

themachinestops@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 May 09:11 next collapse

Windows was always garbage to be honest, windows 7 was the best release in my opinion. You are correct though it is way worse these past months. By the way does your mouse lag when the update notification comes up?

lime@feddit.nu on 01 May 12:20 next collapse

i had such a bad experience with 7, it was horribly unstable on a computer that had handled vista just fine. i switched to 8 as soon as i could and was better off for it.

SaltSong@startrek.website on 01 May 16:04 next collapse

Win98SE was my favorite. Maximum just working, minimum trying to “help.”

JcbAzPx@lemmy.world on 01 May 18:24 collapse

It’s great if you don’t need it to be on the network. I’d say they didn’t have networking figured out until almost the end of XPs lifespan.

chilicheeselies@lemmy.world on 01 May 18:40 collapse

Windows 7 was peak windows. Its been downhill from there

ano_ba_to@sopuli.xyz on 01 May 18:45 collapse

I don’t remember in my 2 decades of working my work machine causing me to lose work due to a Windows update. In the last year, it happened to me 3 times. One was due to Crowdstrike. The latest update also recently broke my remote setup. Not completely their fault but still a crappy time. The one other time was due to an update (must’ve been the forced win11 one) killing the wifi and then Windows hiding any options to fix it, a bug from Windows 10.

Bieren@lemmy.world on 01 May 12:40 next collapse

Work for a big software company. With all the offshoring of devs, I expect most of our code is now AI. And it shows.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world on 01 May 17:35 collapse

How does it show? (Asking for red flags, not to create an argument).

chilicheeselies@lemmy.world on 01 May 18:39 collapse

Quality degredation and Disjointed experience comes to minds. Microsofts tech is such a mess right now i dont know how they come back from it honestly. Too many competing frameworks, bad schemas, broken tooling, bad documentation.

Im not even factoring in windows 11.

I used to be a windows dev guy, but with this landscape I dunno why i would do it to myself. Developing for linux systens is such a better experience. At least there are standards and ubernerds who adhere to them.

Bytemeister@lemmy.world on 02 May 05:09 collapse

Coming back from this is easy.

Extend support for windows 10 for another 4 years. Take a break from their OS release cycle and get the next OS right. Remove the Microsoft account mandate from sign in. Remove AI by default. Remove Ads, weather, news and other bloat from the OS. The focus should be creating the cleanest, simplest, abstraction between the user and the hardware.

chilicheeselies@lemmy.world on 03 May 01:57 collapse

Its not nearly that easy. They are dealing with personalities behind all of this, investors they made promises to, etc. What you are describing is the right thing to do, its just very complicated with a ship as big as microsoft to turn on a dime like that. The bigger the org, the slower it is to react and the harder it is to course correct

Auli@lemmy.ca on 01 May 13:13 next collapse

Is this why they haven’t said why they one folder needs to be there. They actually don’t know.

spicehoarder@lemm.ee on 01 May 19:45 collapse

I’m out of the loop here

JSens1998@lemmy.ml on 02 May 04:24 collapse

Basically, there was a security flaw with Microsoft’s Internet Information Services (web server software) that could be exploited by an attacker to gain access to files and folders they shouldn’t be able to (permission escalation?). Well, instead of providing an actual fix to the problem as a whole, they applied a bandaid fix by creating a new folder named “inetpub” on peoples system drive, and apparently the presence of the folder is able to prevent the exploit from working. People noticed the folder and deleted it because they thought it was being created by an attacker, so Microsoft had to tell people not to delete it.

spicehoarder@lemm.ee on 02 May 13:40 collapse

Wow, so my decision to switch my machines over to Linux by win10 EOL really isn’t overkill.

MTK@lemmy.world on 01 May 15:44 next collapse

We can tell

scarabic@lemmy.world on 01 May 16:45 next collapse

If they mean “30% of the code we wrote last month” then I might believe it. Though I bet it is not across the board but deep in one or two areas. Still, it’s a crazy number.

But he said something like “30% of the code in our repositories” which would mean everything, including their entire legacy of code. And that I simply do not believe.

prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 01 May 16:57 next collapse

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they entered the entire codebase for Windows 11 into an LLM and asked it to optimize it or some shit lol

scarabic@lemmy.world on 01 May 17:03 next collapse

Yeah that’s a good point.

MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works on 01 May 17:26 next collapse

And surprise surprise, it’s worse than ever

spicehoarder@lemm.ee on 01 May 19:42 collapse

Funny considering windows 7 consists of exactly 0% AI generated code.

degen@midwest.social on 01 May 18:49 collapse

lmao I just said the same thing before reading your comment

Womble@lemmy.world on 01 May 17:38 next collapse

Its a shit article with Tech crunch changing the words to get people in a flap about AI (for or against), the actual quote is

“I’d say maybe 20 percent, 30 percent of the code that is inside of our repos today and some of our projects are probably all written by software”

“Written by software” reasonably included machine refactored code, automatically generated boilerplate and things generated by AI assistants. Through that lens 20% doesnt seem crazy.

MangoCats@feddit.it on 01 May 18:35 next collapse

I’ve been “automatically writing code” for a system of about a dozen modules - we specify a glue file in .json between all the modules and the code generating software makes units to go in each module to do the communication interfacing based on the glue spec. That system has been running for more than 10 years now, it writes a couple hundred thousand lines of “new code” every time we modify the glue file.

degen@midwest.social on 01 May 18:41 collapse

The A stands for Automation, right?

MangoCats@feddit.it on 01 May 18:32 next collapse

My first thought on reading that is: yeah, like about 98% of the human genome is “junk DNA” that we have little or no idea what it might be doing. Sometimes when we cut it out, nobody ever notices, sometimes when we cut it out the system won’t boot up.

degen@midwest.social on 01 May 18:47 collapse

Of course it’s just bad writing, but I kind of wouldn’t put it past management to try shoving their multitude of codebases through an LLM at this point.

Antaeus@lemmy.world on 01 May 16:57 next collapse

Copilot. Piloting you towards effortless bugs, and with all the telemetry, we don’t need to test our patches and updates. You, the user are doing that for us. Sincerely, Microsoft.

Evotech@lemmy.world on 01 May 17:25 next collapse

Is the part that handles images in word

chilicheeselies@lemmy.world on 01 May 18:35 next collapse

It shows

GladiusB@lemmy.world on 01 May 19:40 collapse

Stole it as if I wrote it

tehn00bi@lemmy.world on 01 May 18:55 next collapse

How much of Linux is?

bhamlin@lemmy.world on 01 May 19:37 collapse

If you count all of my contributions, 0%.

None of my contributions have been included. I am a terrible programmer.

Olgratin_Magmatoe@slrpnk.net on 01 May 19:28 next collapse

“30% of my pants is pooped”

TwinTitans@lemmy.world on 01 May 19:42 next collapse

Yeah, I can tell every time I have to use that dinosaur of an OS.

Teknikal@eviltoast.org on 01 May 19:42 next collapse

Windows is 95 percent pure bloat now imo, an os just needs to handle my hardware and launch my programs anything else is just eating my resources.

misteryscience@lemm.ee on 01 May 21:44 collapse

I don’t need any assistance from anything while my phasers and quantums aren’t doing anything. I don’t need AI doing anything when I finally get the proper setup for crashing a Tomcat into a big old mountain that only a fool would miss. I don’t need any bloat while I’m ripping off an old cartoon character for a D&D campaign.

spicehoarder@lemm.ee on 01 May 19:43 next collapse

Are they including stuff written by intellisence and boiler plate for legacy code?

RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world on 02 May 05:10 next collapse

And its all Teams.

davidagain@lemmy.world on 02 May 05:33 next collapse

Satya Nadella has given an evasive answer there and both Zuckerberg and the journalists have been taken in.

It is common in programming languages that have a lot of boilerplate to use code generation, where you take some information about data and generate code automatically, like code that translates data between formats (for example reading and writing xml for saving to disk or json to send over the network). Being very routine to write and easy to deduce logically from other information, this process has been automated for years and years, long before AI existed.

Microsoft’s flagship software such as operating systems, office software, is unbelievably vast and complex, far beyond the complexity of most business software, and has been developed over decades. They absolutely have not replaced 30% of their code since the very recent advent of useful AI. I can believe that 30% of it is automatically generated, but not by AI.

SouthEndSunset@lemm.ee on 02 May 05:37 next collapse

Does that mean that Microsoft shares are gonna crash?

randon31415@lemmy.world on 02 May 06:10 collapse

Wonder how much of Windows 10 was written by Stack Exchange?