SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 16 Mar 2025 20:55
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Nice. Where is the source, on github (I didn’t see it but I only skimmed)? Federated? Self-hostable?
whatsgoingdom@rollenspiel.forum
on 16 Mar 2025 21:03
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From briefly looking over the toot, I think the German version is called openDesk (bad choice as there seems to be some interior design software with the same name) there is a community version you can self host in a docker container. They apparently also have distro packages for Debian and Ubuntu but they seem to have stopped development on those.
Self-hostable, but it seems like an absolute behemoth of an application if their "non-production-use-only" docker-compose file is to be believed, and I couldn't find any production-ready deployment instructions on a quick skim. No obvious signs of federation and I didn't see anything on their roadmap, not sure it would make a lot of sense for this though.
cley_faye@lemmy.world
on 16 Mar 2025 22:35
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Deployment instructions start with the prerequisite that you have a full kubernetes cluster with ingress laying around, so… yeah. It looks like it’ll be on the heavy side.
Chodi_MacCunt@no.lastname.nz
on 16 Mar 2025 21:02
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auexgldox
kambusha@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Mar 2025 21:07
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Surprised they didn’t go with cryptpad - aren’t they already French?
Yes, there is evidence. Did you read the linked post?
I wouldn’t have any problems with it if it were just free open source software. But they also offer paid services. Internationally they do that through their Latvian based subsidiary, obfuscating their origin. At home in Russia their suite is renamed R7-Office, which is a reference to the first ICBM with a nuclear warhead. The release imagery also depicts the release of a rocket that looks like the R-7.
Altogether pretty sus, if you ask me.
acockworkorange@mander.xyz
on 21 Mar 2025 23:47
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Boxscape@lemmy.sdf.org
on 16 Mar 2025 21:12
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Great news!
This is probably the last hump for me before I can completely degoogle.
hikuro93@lemmy.ca
on 16 Mar 2025 21:30
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Yes, that’s excellent. We need our own Google suite. Fingers crossed so that it may come eventually.
dynamoMaus@feddit.org
on 16 Mar 2025 21:57
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ZenDiS is awesome by the way.
timewarp@lemmy.world
on 16 Mar 2025 21:59
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I got a kick out of Google Docs alternative since it is trying to be AnyType, AFFiNE, AppFlowy, etc and none of those editors are stupid enough to claim to be Google Docs alternatives nor are they a bloated mess. Proof is in the pudding though… Try putting 1 inch margins on a page & add tab stops with this & printing it out where you get the same results… oh wait, you can’t… Cause it isn’t a Google Docs alternative.
justOnePersistentKbinPlease@fedia.io
on 16 Mar 2025 22:20
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Google docs is trash.
timewarp@lemmy.world
on 16 Mar 2025 22:27
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That is fine to have that opinion but it is irrelevant to the discussion since no where did I praise Google Docs. I’m just explaining the difference between this & and editor that does descent typesetting.
justOnePersistentKbinPlease@fedia.io
on 16 Mar 2025 23:11
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And an editor that does a decent job is not google docs.
It is embarassing that MS has dominated this for more than 30 years and Google, despite its infinite wealth, hasn't made a decent office app.
timewarp@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 00:49
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I wholeheartedly agree with this opinion. Google Docs has done very little to innovate. The fact that you’re still limited to like 6 built-in styles & lack of integrated syntax highlighting is ridiculous.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 04:03
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Google Docs has done very little to innovate.
The place where I see Google Docs being far superior to any other product I’ve run into is collaborative work. Having multiple people writing in the same doc at the simultaneously is a train wreck in most products Office365 included. In other products there’s a good chance you’ll have a version conflict and someone’s changes will be lost. Google docs handles that with ease.
macaw_dean_settle@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 07:57
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I have been using collaboration with Microsoft products for decades with little issue. I first started in college in 2006 with Onenote and it worked well even then. googol is garbage.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 13:39
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I have been using collaboration with Microsoft products for decades with little issue.
You’ve had 60+ people all in a single Excel spreadsheet on Sharepoint all making changes at the exact same moment and never once had a issue of a document lock or file corruption? Its okay to have a preference for one product over the other, but when you’re blinded by brand loyalty where you can see no wrong with your preferred product, it makes you lose credibility.
flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 20:53
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Just chipping in here but I gather 60 concurrent editors is pushing what most people have experienced - so thanks for your perspective!
Most I’ve dealt with is about 5 (in Excell) - and the actual changes were not really being made frequently or by all parties. The worst part was the project manager altering the view and fucking up everyone else’s perspective (even though each had their own?!) - Classic PM stuff.
Does Sheets and the rest of the Google suite handle this well?
partial_accumen@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 21:00
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Does Sheets and the rest of the Google suite handle this well?
It does.
I’ll also be the first to say that many of these use cases should not be using a spreadsheet for the kind of work that is occurring and a database is much more appropriate, but we know “should” rarely is present in modern companies or enterprises.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world
on 16 Mar 2025 22:40
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I disagree. There’s Microsoft Office, and there’s everything else. Google is in that second bucket.
wittycomputer@feddit.org
on 16 Mar 2025 23:25
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There’s Libre office for those who like freedom and open source tech.
Depends on who you hang with. Pretty much all businesses at this point do collaboration either with Office 365 or with Google Docs, and the same in Academia. Usually it’s a mix of both.
None of those tools are editors, right? They all try to be a notion alternative, which is also not an editor. There is basically 0 focus on typesetting.
timewarp@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 09:02
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That is what I’m saying this editor is trying to be Notion, not Google Docs.
Oh OP made it up. Nvm.
They write themselves that it is a notion alternative.
BalpeenHammer@lemmy.nz
on 16 Mar 2025 21:59
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What was wrong with libre?
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 16 Mar 2025 22:05
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Pretty sure Libre only does local document collaboration, having it online is helpful for teams far from each other or who simply don’t have the infrastructure for their own central server of this kind.
Well this has been running in our Nextcloud and works pretty well collaboratively :)
github.com/CollaboraOnline/online
not sure how it scales, but definitely an alternative that can be built on
cley_faye@lemmy.world
on 16 Mar 2025 22:34
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Just checked the part about self-hosting. While it’s probably possible to handle things with a less heavy approach, their only “easy to use” example right now is to have a full-blown kubernetes cluster at hand or run locally in the source directory. That’s a bit much.
Lodra@programming.dev
on 17 Mar 2025 00:09
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Honestly, k8s is super easy and very lightweight to run locally if you know the rights tools. There are a few good options but I prefer k3d. I can install Docker/k3d and also build a local cluster running in maybe 2 minutes. It’s excellent for local dev. Even good for production in some niche scenarios
Metju@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 08:07
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Seconding k3d (and, by extension, k3s). If you’re in a market for sth suitable for more upstream-compliant clustering solution (k3s uses SQLite instead of etcd, iirc), RKE2 is also a great choice
cley_faye@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 08:20
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I don’t like the approach of piling more things on top of even more things to achieve the same goal as the base, frankly speaking. A “local” kubernetes cluster serve no purpose other than incredible complexity for little to no gain over a mere docker-compose. And a small cluster would work equally well with docker swarm.
A service, even made of multiple parts, should always be described that way. It’s easy to move “up” the stack of complexity, if you so desire. Having “have a k8s cluster with helm” working as the base requirement sounds insane to me.
Lodra@programming.dev
on 17 Mar 2025 12:11
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Yea I’m not a fan of helm either. In fact, I avoid charts when possible. But kustomize is great.
I feel the same way about docker compose. If it wasn’t already obvious, I’m biased in favor of k8s. I like and prefer that interface. But that’s just preference. If you like docker compose, great!
There’s one point where I do disagree however. There are scenarios where a local k8s cluster has a good and clear purpose. If your production environment runs on k8s, then it’s best to mirror that locally as much as possible. In fact, there are many apps that even require a k8s api to run. Plus, being able to destroy and rebuild your entire k8s cluster in 30s is wonderful for local testing.
Edit: typos
cley_faye@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 14:29
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I won’t argue with the ups and downs of each technos, but I recently looked into docker swarms and it was all I expected kubernetes to be, without the hassle. And I could also get a full cluster with services restored from scratch in 30s. But I am obviously biased towards it, too :)
Did not realize swarm was still a thing, not trying to be offensive here.
My best find was using traefik as a reverse proxy in docker (compose). It is easily configurable through container labels and pulls resource definitions straight from docker. It is awesome!
Honestly, a lot of the time I don’t understand why a lot of businesses use k8s.
At my company especially, we know almost exactly what our traffic will look like from 9am-5pm. We don’t really need flexible scaling, yet we still use it because the technology is hyped. Similar to cloud, we certainly don’t need to be spending as much as we do, but since everyone else is on or migrating to the cloud, we are as well.
loudwhisper@infosec.pub
on 17 Mar 2025 19:34
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Kubernetes is not really meant primarily for scaling. Even kubernetes clusters require autoscaling groups on nodes to support it, for example, or horizontal pod autoscalers, but they are minor features.
The benefits are pooling computing resources and creating effectively a private cloud. Easy replication of applications in case of hardware failure. Single language to deploy applications, network controls, etc.
azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Mar 2025 09:31
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The “problem” with k8s is not that it’s abstract-y (it’s not inherently any more abstract than docker), it’s that it’s very complex and enterprise-y.
The need for such a complex orchestration layer is not necessarily immediately obvious, until you’ve worked on a complex infra setup that wasn’t deployed with kubernetes. Believe me when you’ve seen the depths of hell that are hundreds of separately configured customer setups using thousands of lines of ansible playbooks, all using ad-hoc systems for creating containers/VMs, with even more ad-hoc and hacked together development and staging environments, suddenly k8s starts looking very appetizing. Instead of an abominable spaghetti of bash scripts, playbooks, and random documentation, one common (albeit complex) set of tools understood by every professional which manages your application deployment & configuration, redundancy, software upgrades, firewall configs, etc.
A small self-hosted production kubernetes cluster doesn’t have to be hard to operate or significantly more expensive than bare-metal; you can buy 3U of rack space, plop in 3 semi-large servers (think 128 GB plus a few TB of SSD RAID), install rancher and longhorn, and now you’ve got a prod cluster large enough for nearly every workload such that if you ever need to upgrade that means you have so many customers that hiring a k8s administrator will be a no-brainer.
Or you can buy minutes from AWS because CapEx is the absolute devil and instead you pay several times as much in OpEx to make it someone else’s problem. But if you’re doing that then you’re not comparing against “installing things the old-fashioned way”.
I personally haven’t rolled a k8s or k3s cluster, so it’s always felt a bit abstract to me. I probably should though, to demystify it to myself in my work environment.
Complex is definitely what I have noticed when I see my devops team PR into the ingress directories.
I guess the abstract issue I see, that ties in to the meme i shared above, is that sometimes around deploys where we get blips of 503/4’s and we appear to be unable to track them down. Is it the load balancer? Ingress? Kong? The fact that there is so many layers make infra issues rough to debug
azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
on 19 Mar 2025 00:22
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I mean yeah it’s all very complex for sure. Managing a cluster is very involved and k8s administration is typically a completely separate role from dev/devops. I am comfortable with the idea and I still run my selfhosted setup on docker because it’s easier and I have no personal use for multi-node setups.
However when you get down to it pretty much everything in k8s solves a real problem that in a “traditional” infra would require lots of ad-hoc bullshit. The ingress system of k8s is, at a high level, a standardized recreation of the typical “haproxy+nginx+ad-hoc provisioning” setup you’d find in a “classical” private cloud deployment. TLS in, send to nginx, nginx chooses a relevant healthy back-end and reverse proxies the request. K8s doesn’t really do anything crazy complex, the complexity is just inherent to having a many-to-many mapping of HTTP requests while optionally supporting multi-zone setups with local affinity and lifecycle management/awareness.
But unlike with a traditional deployment there’s not a greybeard guru in the back who deployed it all and knows the ins-and-outs so it’s quite common that the complexity is not understood and underappreciated by the “admins”. That complexity is a blessing when you need to leverage it but a curse when you lack the expertise to understand what is happening holistically.
Kind of like a linux distro… It’s amazing when it works but when libpam throws an error and you don’t even know what that library is or does, well you’re in for a fun evening.
k8s is overkill for a lot of homelabs. Using docker compose is a fraction of that complexity
loudwhisper@infosec.pub
on 17 Mar 2025 19:32
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Yes if single node, kinda if 2-3 nodes, no for anything above that IMHO.
Lodra@programming.dev
on 17 Mar 2025 21:56
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There are many reasons to use k8s. Managing multiple nodes is one good one. But more importantly, k8s gives you an api-driven runtime environment. It’s really not comparable to docker compose.
nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de
on 17 Mar 2025 07:33
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In the README there’s also instructions for Docker Compose, although it’s quite the compose file, with SIXTEEN containers defined. Not something I’d want to self-host.
No, because with the above you can have rich objects in databases (for example, a dynamically updated list of medical events, each with all the attributes I want, attachments etc.), and almost arbitrarily deep nesting of databases.
The idea to have databases with pages is one of the key features that made notion successful. It allows to structure knowledge without duplication, in addition to provide some other no-code features.
Spreadsheets are not even close.
werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 19:43
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Exactly. Engineering research test write ups and results could be quickly searched for in a good document database.
werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 19:37
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I’m in the engineering business. We have a PDM system that we check-in copies of component 3D models, PDF drawings and DOCs. Once your team has collaborated enough, you have a copy…once a week/day/hour depending on your preference. That way you can collaborate and keep frozen records and rev controlled documents.
foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml
on 17 Mar 2025 06:31
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Pretty good project, but is it the future to have mainly web apps?
SaraTonin@lemm.ee
on 17 Mar 2025 08:02
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It’s definitely been the direction of travel for the last several years. Not because the products are better, but because it’s easier to develop for just the browser than for Mac, Windows, and Linux.
coolmojo@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 13:42
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it’s easier to develop for just the browser than for Mac, Windows, and Linux.
They also work on android and IOS. You are also not dependent on the different toolkits. Also it is so much more performant.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 13:52
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They also work on android and IOS.
I can imagine it’ll be a 160 MB app that loads the website in a webview, like it usually is
I’ve never found them to be more performant, and i can’t understand the logic of why a programme running inside another programme would be more performant except in comparison to unoptimised alternatives.
I’ve never used a web app that i thought was better than a local app. But i definitely understand why developers prefer them.
Web apps have the advantage of not requiring admin permission and being accessible from pretty much everywhere, and they are often less intensive I believe
And I guess cloud storage of documents makes it even better
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz
on 17 Mar 2025 13:10
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I guess I don’t mind if I can self host the server. If I can’t I have no interest in touching it.
Renohren@lemmy.today
on 17 Mar 2025 23:02
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True: self hosting is beneficial, Foss office suite is great to empower us, users… etc.
The point of the software presented isn’t aimed at regular computer users that would enjoy a bit of independence, it looks more like something aimed at the enterprise administrative level that people may stumble upon while searching for a document (who needs versioning apart from filename extensions if you alone work on the documents).See it as: you may find , download and use updated packaged software on github but in reality it’s really a tool aimed at devs before being a software repository for end users.
I see this as software mainly for the French or German state administration being made public for others to enrich, integrate… Like Olvid is a matrix based E2E encrypted, real authenticated identity based messenger made available to the public once the French government financed it’s development for it’s own use.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 13:53
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no office software requires admin eighter unless you want to install it for all users
it’s often a pain to install in computers that don’t have it by default, like school computers or similar, but alright, didn’t know it!
+some people don’t like installing stuff
+you can’t collaborate with other people on the default LibreOffice I iirc
RichardDegenne@lemm.ee
on 17 Mar 2025 08:37
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Bro has been sleeping under a rock for the past 10 years.
Valmond@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 08:48
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A good web app is awesome!
But the big ones usually wants to have a native app so that they can scan your whole computer and so on. This is good news.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 13:55
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which is fine if you deny network connections for it with a per-process firewall. but with a webapp you can never be sure that they won’t snatch your documents.
originaltnavn@lemm.ee
on 17 Mar 2025 08:51
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It does not work on my work-computer, since office macros and some formatting renders differently across versions. Other required software constraints make windows unusable for me.
Slax@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 12:03
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I agree but having two major countries using this might be a good move for more efforts from nations. I know Canada still uses all M$FT platforms and recently moved to EXO.
Purpose built projects like this would be easy for public servants to adopt and adapt their workflow.
ByGourou@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 12:21
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I wish we did with more open source and local software.
My school in Canada has some agreement with Microsoft so we have to use everything from them.
The school mail used for all accounts is hosted by outlook
The databases are all azure
The 2fa app on our phone to boot the school computer has to be Microsoft (even gave me shit because I am root…)
Teams
We had a whole course for a year on how to use word.
It’s a public school.
Obviously with this most students will move to the USA for higher pay, we are literally subsidizing the USA education.
Slax@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 12:54
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The school board here uses Google, and Microsoft… I emailed their board and the province’s privacy commissionaire asking why. I grew up with an agenda, and that shit worked better than using a website and email for JK/SK aged kids.
YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 13:19
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What do folks think of cryptpad? Thinking of more like planning on switching from proton after CEO bullshit
pdqcp@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Mar 2025 13:27
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I’ll look into that one too, I didn’t know about it
Which bullshit are you talking about? I might have missed it and my search didn’t bring much on it
lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Mar 2025 16:26
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Short version to save others a click: Proton’s CEO tweeted an endorsement of Trump’s FTC pick, going on to praise how apparently the Republicans are now the party for the “little guys” and crediting the ongoing antitrust proceedings to Trump’s first term.
anon593839@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 13:44
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I personally really like Cryptpad. I haven’t heard of Fileverse, so I’ll check it out. Cryptpad is the closest thing I’ve found to a drop-in Google Suite replacement.
conditional_soup@lemm.ee
on 17 Mar 2025 14:03
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Checked out the site on mobile, and it was unresponsive to any of my clicks.
febra@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 14:44
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Well this software is more intended for administrative staff working for the government, so I don’t think that decentralisation is their goal here.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 14:50
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Why distributed? Having your data tied to a blockchain seems unnecessarily complicated, and it essentially puts your data at risk if the bulk of the community moves to the next hot thing.
We really need to decouple storage from the apps themselves. Whether you use distributed storage, local storage, or something commercially backed like S3 should be a choice separate from the app you use to view and edit your data.
I self-host Collabora (online version of LibreOffice; OnlyOffice is another option), and my data lives on my NAS, but it could just as easily live on S3 or some distributed data store.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 15:32
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(Not op) Its distrubuted so you don’t lose your content if something happens to one location.
Just browsing the landing page, it looks like the blockchain part offers proof of ownership and strict access controls without having to use a centralized service, which is needed in some form if it’s distrubuted.
I imagine but haven’t seen that it might handle payments for having things be distrubuted as well, which would have meant having to include credit cards otherwise which would complicate things like micro payments to any given person hosting your content.
Edit: also this is the kind of thing that should use an S3 compatible API so you don’t get locked in as you said. It’d let you move the data between providers effortlessly.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 16:21
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Its distrubuted so you don’t lose your content if something happens to one location.
Right, but you’ll lose your content if enough people lose interest in the network. That’s absolutely a thing in the crypto world where things move fast. Relying on the network effect to secure your data sounds… sketchy.
which is needed in some form if it’s distrubuted
Sure, and the easiest way to do that is w/ public key cryptography, sign your encrypted stuff and you can always prove ownership. A blockchain gives you that, but it’s hardly necessary to have consensus around that.
include credit cards
It probably uses some cryptocurrency. Lots of cryptocurrencies work well for micropayments (e.g. LiteCoin, Monero, or even Bitcoin w/ the lightning network).
I just don’t see the need for a blockchain here. Bittorrent has been doing content-based addressing for ages, and it doesn’t need a blockchain, you just ask for the data at a given hash and you get it. Or you can use IPFS. If everything is properly encrypted, you’re good to go!
What the blockchain does offer is a way to pay for storage. So the more you pay, the more likely your data is to still be there after some time as people leave the network and nodes drop and whatnot. All in all though, it seems really risky to put anything important on it, and you might as well just pay for a storage provider from a legal entity that you can sue if things go poorly (and maybe two, so you’re not screwed if goes bankrupt or whatever).
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 16:43
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I was looking at it more, and it does use IPFS for the data storage (files and the collaboration chats etc), as well as Arweave, which I’d never heard of until today.
CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 16:01
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I self-host Collabora (online version of LibreOffice; OnlyOffice is another option), and my data lives on my NAS, but it could just as easily live on S3 or some distributed data store.
Oh this is interesting. Any pitfalls you could talk about before I go popping this up myself?
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Mar 2025 16:12
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It’s pretty easy if you use NextCloud with the AIO image, but if you’re doing anything fancier than that, strap in because there aren’t many decent tutorials.
Renohren@lemmy.today
on 17 Mar 2025 22:41
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Even nextcloud-not-AIO offers a way to install the server of office suites through the settings of the admin account all in the web GUI. I’ve chosen onlyoffice but it could have been nextcloud docs or collabora (and soon maybe, this thing)
CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Mar 2025 12:48
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strap in because there aren’t many decent tutorials
Yeah I’ve noticed. It was rough figuring out how to set up a reverse proxy with SSL too. Self-hosting is a process.
Agent641@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 14:38
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No America’s club
flop_leash_973@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 15:02
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As someone in and from the US, good. Private companies are far to prevalent in public institutions all over the world. Something as basic and fundamental as word processing should not be controlled by a small select few huge international companies.
HawlSera@lemm.ee
on 17 Mar 2025 16:28
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Is this just for EU citisens or can Americans like me use it?
theterrasque@infosec.pub
on 17 Mar 2025 16:43
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Free open source software
betahack@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 16:43
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free and open source software
fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Mar 2025 16:46
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FOSS (free and open source software) is software that is completely open source and is free for everyone to use. It’s much harder to enshittify, and if it ever does people can fork (make a copy, and make their own changes to the software).
loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Mar 2025 18:39
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In case you didn’t understood by now, it’s free open source software
kerrigan778@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 18:44
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I was going to make a joke but honestly it’s refreshing and a good sign that Lemmy is starting to get used by people who don’t know what FOSS means now. Welcome.
Nice to see Lemmy is not just a place for complete nerds!
FOSS is free and open-source software. In simple terms, it is any program for which the source code (i.e. the actual code that forms the program, its entire backbone) is available for anyone to see and modify as they see fit, without any technical or legal limitations.
This is normally seen as very positive, because everyone with the knowledge of respective programming languages can inspect the program to see it doesn’t do anything malicious, and everyone can change the program to their needs. Also, the original creator of the program does not have power to put any limitations on its use, like introducing payment requirements, or deleting important features, because everyone can immediately spawn a version of the program that doesn’t have these changes, while still having the rest.
So… how do I use it? I tried signing up on the site, but… it said something about an organization it was poorly transltaed from French to English, so I couldn’t tell what I was doing… I got as far as registering my current email address
It might be a bit early for you. It’s in a way like Lemmy, somebody has to put it on a server and let you use it.
It’s meant for government agencies to deploy and use (although anybody with some self hosting knowledge can do on their servers, including hobbiests and companies)
eric5949@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 16:59
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Dont know why we need another foss office but im certainly not going to complain.
AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 17:07
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It looks closer to the markdown style of formatting though, and I doubt it has page formatting, or other more advanced formatting, or extensions, or a large selection of fonts. Honestly, even though docs has pageless formatting now, most people don’t use it when they should, making everything unnecessary harder to read, so this will be better in that regard at least. This is probably good enough for 95% of what people use Docs for, but I wouldn’t call it a replacement.
I haven’t used it because I don’t have a French government account, so correct me if I’m wrong about any of that.
Edit: it looks like it only has 1 font and no page formatting
GrosPapatouf@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 21:36
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There is a public demo instance. The link and test credentials are on the GitHub page.
lengau@midwest.social
on 17 Mar 2025 17:15
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What does this do over what the collabora tools in Nextcloud do?
ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net
on 17 Mar 2025 23:31
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NGL I keep forgetting NextCloud has collaboration tools.
Calligra and LibreOffice already exist though. I am not against this in principle but couldn’t they have invested in an existing FOSS project?
xthexder@l.sw0.com
on 17 Mar 2025 17:55
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Can either of those do collaborative editing? I usually think of that feature when I think of Google Docs
acockworkorange@mander.xyz
on 21 Mar 2025 14:43
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OnlyOffice does for sure, not sure how well it works on LibreOffice Online.
Trihilis@ani.social
on 17 Mar 2025 17:59
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While both of those are great software. Unless I’m not aware of something they aren’t cloud/network based office suites like Google docs and office 365.
It seems this is an alternative to office software where you can work simultaneously and share documents in the same cloud/network.
I don’t think there is an alternative to office 365 and Google docs at this point that is open source. So this seems like a great project and I’ll definitely be considering it for our company.
Exceptionhandler@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Mar 2025 18:13
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What about Collabora Online? It integrates nicely into Nextcloud, but I am not sure about pricing for business use.
Thanks I’ll definitely check that out. I’ve seen some posts about it working on Synology Nas devices so that’s very interesting.
CostcoFanboy@lemmy.ca
on 17 Mar 2025 23:45
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If you ever diverge away from proprietary Synology solution, NextCloud has 100% integration with Collabora too.
loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Mar 2025 18:21
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There’s onlyoffice for cloud based office
AugustWest@lemm.ee
on 17 Mar 2025 20:34
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Onlyoffice seems a little slack on the security and updates. I saw the warnings in the desktop package, have they made sure the online offerings are secure?
bishbosh@lemm.ee
on 17 Mar 2025 22:22
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If there are issues like this, sounds like a good goal for a country that wants to divest from US tech companies.
loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 19 Mar 2025 07:37
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what do you mean?
bubblewrap@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Mar 2025 15:45
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OnlyOffice has a lot of ties with Russia/CIS. I’d personally avoid it on that basis.
loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 19 Mar 2025 07:36
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Do you have Amy sources on that
passenger@lemm.ee
on 17 Mar 2025 20:03
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There is nextcloud and others you can self host at least.
acockworkorange@mander.xyz
on 21 Mar 2025 14:42
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LibreOffice online exists. It’s not mature, but they could have invest half their time in making it so.
Only Office is natively cloud based, with an optional offline/desktop version.
Both are open source, if the concern is project governance, create a fork and rebrand.
CostcoFanboy@lemmy.ca
on 17 Mar 2025 23:40
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A lot of government programs don’t really make sense and are there just to put a name on a CV sadly.
Collabora Online does exactly that and is primary licensed under Mozilla Public License.
They could have easily expanded Collabora. But you know, can’t stamp your name on it.
milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
on 18 Mar 2025 08:19
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To be fair, though a new project might not be as efficient as improving another, projects learn off each other, and sometimes it’s good to have developmental ‘competition’, and variety.
Note: The LibreOffice Online repository at TDF is temporarily frozen. Updates on this will be published on our blog and on our website.
yeah
genomebandit@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 17:35
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Really glad to see the EU adopt more open source software as a way to combat the centralized control some of the american software companies have over the space.
If I can copy and paste with thought having to install the offline plugin, then I’m in.
iwasnormalonce@lemm.ee
on 17 Mar 2025 21:29
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Can the UK get some of that?
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org
on 17 Mar 2025 21:44
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Is there a German-hosted instance? The URL docs.numerique.gouv.fr/login/ is making me wanna barf and no way I’m clicking it to risk seeing more Fr*nch.
JargonWagon@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 22:37
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stoly@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 22:57
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Really cool. I tried to sign up but you have to be part of an officially recognized organization in France and input their registration number as part of the process.
meliaesc@lemmy.world
on 17 Mar 2025 23:20
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I definitely don’t want the government attached to my personal files, in any country.
I’m sure it will be. This is a government funded thing in the early stages so I can see how they would set it up that way.
AnonomousWolf@lemm.ee
on 18 Mar 2025 07:09
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We already have kDrive you get 1TB storage for only 2€ a month, it’s based in Switzerland
hoppolito@mander.xyz
on 18 Mar 2025 08:20
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Is there an open source implementation of kDrive as well?
cooligula@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Mar 2025 08:31
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It is already open-source. All of the source code is on their github and, for docs, they use an implementation of onlyoffice very similar to the one in Nextcloud
hoppolito@mander.xyz
on 18 Mar 2025 09:25
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Oh that is good to know then. At a cursory glance I only saw the clients’ software available as github repositories and the German and French wikipedia pages called it a proprietary service.
utopiah@lemmy.world
on 18 Mar 2025 07:56
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Nice, DINUM is doing a lot so great to see go beyond with supra national collaboration!
I’m using NextCloud (Germany and international open source community) hosted on Webo (Slovenia) with data centers in Germany and Helsinki (so I bet on Hetzner). I’m happy with it but I’ll keep on eye on github.com/suitenumerique/docs
Seems I misunderstood, if it’s solely the branding (of that implementation) then it’s fine. I thought they relied on AWS itself.
hoppolito@mander.xyz
on 18 Mar 2025 08:18
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I would assume (without having looked at the codebase) that if they use minio they are, by default, not reliant on AWS.
Minio is its own S3 implementation which can be self-hosted.
S3, being an AWS protocol originally has AWS environment variables all over the place but that does not necessarily mean a reliance on the service. Rather, they rely on the protocol and you bring your own S3 endpoint I would assume. be that minio, hetzner or what have you.
Thanks for the clarification, that makes sense, closing the issue then.
thickertoofan@lemm.ee
on 18 Mar 2025 08:17
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and why so?
Harlehatschi@lemmy.ml
on 18 Mar 2025 13:12
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Living under a rock eh?
thickertoofan@lemm.ee
on 19 Mar 2025 03:46
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I mean I didn’t see any alarming need of a Google doc alternative, so I might actually be under a rock
ExpectTheWorse@lemmy.vg
on 18 Mar 2025 09:34
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Thats great
geography082@lemm.ee
on 18 Mar 2025 13:33
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Now explain this to EU based corporations, which in my opinion needs to be the focus on making the change. They drive the economy. All major assets in software income are being routed to American firms through their licenses.
threaded - newest
Nice. Where is the source, on github (I didn’t see it but I only skimmed)? Federated? Self-hostable?
From briefly looking over the toot, I think the German version is called openDesk (bad choice as there seems to be some interior design software with the same name) there is a community version you can self host in a docker container. They apparently also have distro packages for Debian and Ubuntu but they seem to have stopped development on those.
Here’s a link: https://opendesk.eu/en/
openDesk is a complete suite of open source software. I guess Docs could at some point become a part of it. But it‘s not the same thing.
github.com/suitenumerique/docs
Self-hostable, needs Minio (or any S3 compatible system).
Github: https://github.com/suitenumerique/docs
Self-hostable, but it seems like an absolute behemoth of an application if their "non-production-use-only" docker-compose file is to be believed, and I couldn't find any production-ready deployment instructions on a quick skim. No obvious signs of federation and I didn't see anything on their roadmap, not sure it would make a lot of sense for this though.
Deployment instructions start with the prerequisite that you have a full kubernetes cluster with ingress laying around, so… yeah. It looks like it’ll be on the heavy side.
auexgldox
Surprised they didn’t go with cryptpad - aren’t they already French?
Cryptpad is French, but they are using OnlyOffice, which is Russian.
Fuck :( Didn’t know that… I got convinced by the company being supposedly Latvian.
It is Latvian. It’s also Russian. It’s also Singaporean. It just depends on who you ask and how much you want to look into it.
But yeah, that’s a large part of why I use Collabora instead of OnlyOffice, it’s just a lot less sketchy.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
Is there any evidence of any wrongdoing or are we just considering all open source software from Russia a bad actor by default?
Yes, there is evidence. Did you read the linked post?
I wouldn’t have any problems with it if it were just free open source software. But they also offer paid services. Internationally they do that through their Latvian based subsidiary, obfuscating their origin. At home in Russia their suite is renamed R7-Office, which is a reference to the first ICBM with a nuclear warhead. The release imagery also depicts the release of a rocket that looks like the R-7.
Altogether pretty sus, if you ask me.
First, keep your condescension to yourself.
Second, that’s not evidence, that’s FUD.
No condescension intended.
Great news!
This is probably the last hump for me before I can completely degoogle.
Yes, that’s excellent. We need our own Google suite. Fingers crossed so that it may come eventually.
ZenDiS is awesome by the way.
I got a kick out of Google Docs alternative since it is trying to be AnyType, AFFiNE, AppFlowy, etc and none of those editors are stupid enough to claim to be Google Docs alternatives nor are they a bloated mess. Proof is in the pudding though… Try putting 1 inch margins on a page & add tab stops with this & printing it out where you get the same results… oh wait, you can’t… Cause it isn’t a Google Docs alternative.
Google docs is trash.
That is fine to have that opinion but it is irrelevant to the discussion since no where did I praise Google Docs. I’m just explaining the difference between this & and editor that does descent typesetting.
And an editor that does a decent job is not google docs.
It is embarassing that MS has dominated this for more than 30 years and Google, despite its infinite wealth, hasn't made a decent office app.
I wholeheartedly agree with this opinion. Google Docs has done very little to innovate. The fact that you’re still limited to like 6 built-in styles & lack of integrated syntax highlighting is ridiculous.
The place where I see Google Docs being far superior to any other product I’ve run into is collaborative work. Having multiple people writing in the same doc at the simultaneously is a train wreck in most products Office365 included. In other products there’s a good chance you’ll have a version conflict and someone’s changes will be lost. Google docs handles that with ease.
I have been using collaboration with Microsoft products for decades with little issue. I first started in college in 2006 with Onenote and it worked well even then. googol is garbage.
You’ve had 60+ people all in a single Excel spreadsheet on Sharepoint all making changes at the exact same moment and never once had a issue of a document lock or file corruption? Its okay to have a preference for one product over the other, but when you’re blinded by brand loyalty where you can see no wrong with your preferred product, it makes you lose credibility.
Just chipping in here but I gather 60 concurrent editors is pushing what most people have experienced - so thanks for your perspective!
Most I’ve dealt with is about 5 (in Excell) - and the actual changes were not really being made frequently or by all parties. The worst part was the project manager altering the view and fucking up everyone else’s perspective (even though each had their own?!) - Classic PM stuff.
Does Sheets and the rest of the Google suite handle this well?
It does.
I’ll also be the first to say that many of these use cases should not be using a spreadsheet for the kind of work that is occurring and a database is much more appropriate, but we know “should” rarely is present in modern companies or enterprises.
I disagree. There’s Microsoft Office, and there’s everything else. Google is in that second bucket.
There’s Libre office for those who like freedom and open source tech.
Depends on who you hang with. Pretty much all businesses at this point do collaboration either with Office 365 or with Google Docs, and the same in Academia. Usually it’s a mix of both.
None of those tools are editors, right? They all try to be a notion alternative, which is also not an editor. There is basically 0 focus on typesetting.
That is what I’m saying this editor is trying to be Notion, not Google Docs.
Yes, but who said otherwise then?
Oh OP made it up. Nvm. They write themselves that it is a notion alternative.
What was wrong with libre?
Pretty sure Libre only does local document collaboration, having it online is helpful for teams far from each other or who simply don’t have the infrastructure for their own central server of this kind.
Well this has been running in our Nextcloud and works pretty well collaboratively :) github.com/CollaboraOnline/online not sure how it scales, but definitely an alternative that can be built on
Thanks for this; I may use it to build out my NextCloud server. I’ve already used it to replace shared calendars and contacts.
If you’re using Nextcloud All In One then it’s easy to enable it in the AIO settings.
If you’re not, I suggest looking into it. It’s the new officially recommended way of installing and it’s been great.
Nextcloud has an export/import data function but at the time I did it I only had a few GB of data so not sure how well it scales.
The web browser is the future, especially for a crappy document editor and spread sheet.
Then just use Word online.
Not FOSS and probably not privacy friendly
Just checked the part about self-hosting. While it’s probably possible to handle things with a less heavy approach, their only “easy to use” example right now is to have a full-blown kubernetes cluster at hand or run locally in the source directory. That’s a bit much.
Honestly, k8s is super easy and very lightweight to run locally if you know the rights tools. There are a few good options but I prefer k3d. I can install Docker/k3d and also build a local cluster running in maybe 2 minutes. It’s excellent for local dev. Even good for production in some niche scenarios
Seconding k3d (and, by extension, k3s). If you’re in a market for sth suitable for more upstream-compliant clustering solution (k3s uses SQLite instead of etcd, iirc), RKE2 is also a great choice
I don’t like the approach of piling more things on top of even more things to achieve the same goal as the base, frankly speaking. A “local” kubernetes cluster serve no purpose other than incredible complexity for little to no gain over a mere docker-compose. And a small cluster would work equally well with docker swarm.
A service, even made of multiple parts, should always be described that way. It’s easy to move “up” the stack of complexity, if you so desire. Having “have a k8s cluster with helm” working as the base requirement sounds insane to me.
Yea I’m not a fan of helm either. In fact, I avoid charts when possible. But kustomize is great.
I feel the same way about docker compose. If it wasn’t already obvious, I’m biased in favor of k8s. I like and prefer that interface. But that’s just preference. If you like docker compose, great!
There’s one point where I do disagree however. There are scenarios where a local k8s cluster has a good and clear purpose. If your production environment runs on k8s, then it’s best to mirror that locally as much as possible. In fact, there are many apps that even require a k8s api to run. Plus, being able to destroy and rebuild your entire k8s cluster in 30s is wonderful for local testing.
Edit: typos
I won’t argue with the ups and downs of each technos, but I recently looked into docker swarms and it was all I expected kubernetes to be, without the hassle. And I could also get a full cluster with services restored from scratch in 30s. But I am obviously biased towards it, too :)
Did not realize swarm was still a thing, not trying to be offensive here.
My best find was using traefik as a reverse proxy in docker (compose). It is easily configurable through container labels and pulls resource definitions straight from docker. It is awesome!
<img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/6bf400a9-6f67-4747-a500-22325e6d145d.jpeg">
Honestly, a lot of the time I don’t understand why a lot of businesses use k8s.
At my company especially, we know almost exactly what our traffic will look like from 9am-5pm. We don’t really need flexible scaling, yet we still use it because the technology is hyped. Similar to cloud, we certainly don’t need to be spending as much as we do, but since everyone else is on or migrating to the cloud, we are as well.
Kubernetes is not really meant primarily for scaling. Even kubernetes clusters require autoscaling groups on nodes to support it, for example, or horizontal pod autoscalers, but they are minor features.
The benefits are pooling computing resources and creating effectively a private cloud. Easy replication of applications in case of hardware failure. Single language to deploy applications, network controls, etc.
The “problem” with k8s is not that it’s abstract-y (it’s not inherently any more abstract than docker), it’s that it’s very complex and enterprise-y.
The need for such a complex orchestration layer is not necessarily immediately obvious, until you’ve worked on a complex infra setup that wasn’t deployed with kubernetes. Believe me when you’ve seen the depths of hell that are hundreds of separately configured customer setups using thousands of lines of ansible playbooks, all using ad-hoc systems for creating containers/VMs, with even more ad-hoc and hacked together development and staging environments, suddenly k8s starts looking very appetizing. Instead of an abominable spaghetti of bash scripts, playbooks, and random documentation, one common (albeit complex) set of tools understood by every professional which manages your application deployment & configuration, redundancy, software upgrades, firewall configs, etc.
A small self-hosted production kubernetes cluster doesn’t have to be hard to operate or significantly more expensive than bare-metal; you can buy 3U of rack space, plop in 3 semi-large servers (think 128 GB plus a few TB of SSD RAID), install rancher and longhorn, and now you’ve got a prod cluster large enough for nearly every workload such that if you ever need to upgrade that means you have so many customers that hiring a k8s administrator will be a no-brainer.
Or you can buy minutes from AWS because CapEx is the absolute devil and instead you pay several times as much in OpEx to make it someone else’s problem. But if you’re doing that then you’re not comparing against “installing things the old-fashioned way”.
Thanks for the response!
I personally haven’t rolled a k8s or k3s cluster, so it’s always felt a bit abstract to me. I probably should though, to demystify it to myself in my work environment.
Complex is definitely what I have noticed when I see my devops team PR into the ingress directories.
I guess the abstract issue I see, that ties in to the meme i shared above, is that sometimes around deploys where we get blips of 503/4’s and we appear to be unable to track them down. Is it the load balancer? Ingress? Kong? The fact that there is so many layers make infra issues rough to debug
I mean yeah it’s all very complex for sure. Managing a cluster is very involved and k8s administration is typically a completely separate role from dev/devops. I am comfortable with the idea and I still run my selfhosted setup on docker because it’s easier and I have no personal use for multi-node setups.
However when you get down to it pretty much everything in k8s solves a real problem that in a “traditional” infra would require lots of ad-hoc bullshit. The ingress system of k8s is, at a high level, a standardized recreation of the typical “haproxy+nginx+ad-hoc provisioning” setup you’d find in a “classical” private cloud deployment. TLS in, send to nginx, nginx chooses a relevant healthy back-end and reverse proxies the request. K8s doesn’t really do anything crazy complex, the complexity is just inherent to having a many-to-many mapping of HTTP requests while optionally supporting multi-zone setups with local affinity and lifecycle management/awareness.
But unlike with a traditional deployment there’s not a greybeard guru in the back who deployed it all and knows the ins-and-outs so it’s quite common that the complexity is not understood and underappreciated by the “admins”. That complexity is a blessing when you need to leverage it but a curse when you lack the expertise to understand what is happening holistically.
Kind of like a linux distro… It’s amazing when it works but when libpam throws an error and you don’t even know what that library is or does, well you’re in for a fun evening.
k8s is overkill for a lot of homelabs. Using docker compose is a fraction of that complexity
Yes if single node, kinda if 2-3 nodes, no for anything above that IMHO.
There are many reasons to use k8s. Managing multiple nodes is one good one. But more importantly, k8s gives you an api-driven runtime environment. It’s really not comparable to docker compose.
In the README there’s also instructions for Docker Compose, although it’s quite the compose file, with SIXTEEN containers defined. Not something I’d want to self-host.
it seems to contains development containers and external services containers. So the compose file is more for local dev it seems
What i do find weird is the choice for Django for the backend. Python is incredibly slow, and django rest framework is even worse.
Please develop this self hosted version using sandstorm
It makes hosting a breeze with one click installation
I love the docs ability to create databases from my docs. That would be super useful for work and research activities.
Oh, you mean a spreadsheet?
No, because with the above you can have rich objects in databases (for example, a dynamically updated list of medical events, each with all the attributes I want, attachments etc.), and almost arbitrarily deep nesting of databases. The idea to have databases with pages is one of the key features that made notion successful. It allows to structure knowledge without duplication, in addition to provide some other no-code features.
Spreadsheets are not even close.
Exactly. Engineering research test write ups and results could be quickly searched for in a good document database.
.
I’m in the engineering business. We have a PDM system that we check-in copies of component 3D models, PDF drawings and DOCs. Once your team has collaborated enough, you have a copy…once a week/day/hour depending on your preference. That way you can collaborate and keep frozen records and rev controlled documents.
.
Pretty good project, but is it the future to have mainly web apps?
It’s definitely been the direction of travel for the last several years. Not because the products are better, but because it’s easier to develop for just the browser than for Mac, Windows, and Linux.
They also work on android and IOS. You are also not dependent on the different toolkits. Also it is so much more performant.
I can imagine it’ll be a 160 MB app that loads the website in a webview, like it usually is
I’ve never found them to be more performant, and i can’t understand the logic of why a programme running inside another programme would be more performant except in comparison to unoptimised alternatives.
I’ve never used a web app that i thought was better than a local app. But i definitely understand why developers prefer them.
A bit of both I guess
Web apps have the advantage of not requiring admin permission and being accessible from pretty much everywhere, and they are often less intensive I believe
And I guess cloud storage of documents makes it even better
I guess I don’t mind if I can self host the server. If I can’t I have no interest in touching it.
For sure! self hosting is the way
True: self hosting is beneficial, Foss office suite is great to empower us, users… etc.
The point of the software presented isn’t aimed at regular computer users that would enjoy a bit of independence, it looks more like something aimed at the enterprise administrative level that people may stumble upon while searching for a document (who needs versioning apart from filename extensions if you alone work on the documents).See it as: you may find , download and use updated packaged software on github but in reality it’s really a tool aimed at devs before being a software repository for end users.
I see this as software mainly for the French or German state administration being made public for others to enrich, integrate… Like Olvid is a matrix based E2E encrypted, real authenticated identity based messenger made available to the public once the French government financed it’s development for it’s own use.
no office software requires admin eighter unless you want to install it for all users
it’s often a pain to install in computers that don’t have it by default, like school computers or similar, but alright, didn’t know it!
+some people don’t like installing stuff
+you can’t collaborate with other people on the default LibreOffice I iirc
Bro has been sleeping under a rock for the past 10 years.
A good web app is awesome!
But the big ones usually wants to have a native app so that they can scan your whole computer and so on. This is good news.
which is fine if you deny network connections for it with a per-process firewall. but with a webapp you can never be sure that they won’t snatch your documents.
Depends, if it is open source then you just host it yourself for your organisation.
For offline editing there’s already LibreOffice
LibreOffice does everything I need it to and there’s no need for anything else.
Doesn’t do collaborative online editing and that seems what this is about. But there are foss alternatives already, collabora/nextcloud, cryptpad etc.
Well yeah, that’s why my parent comment said its good for offline editing. I don’t need collaborative online editing.
Yeah, it is called Word. Works on all computers, is free to use the web based version, and is the world standard.
Proprietary bullshit
It does not work on my work-computer, since office macros and some formatting renders differently across versions. Other required software constraints make windows unusable for me.
Maybe I missed something, but since when Word is not only an alternative to an office suite, but also a web-based one?
.
But even a web-based version of Word can’t be a Google Docs alternative, because Word can’t into spreadsheets and presentations.
Word won’t install on machine.
LibreOffice does, though.
goFuckYourself(Microsoft)Hey, this is a Python project, use underscores.
So FramaSoft is not a thing ?? It’s French
We should actually use an opensource, decentralized and private alternative instead of relying on another centralized service
See Fileverse for example: fileverse.io
Yeah agreed - anything not FOSS is just setting up another bad situation waiting to happen
It says in one of the first paragraphs, that its open-source
Ah, I missed that detall! github.com/suitenumerique/docs
I agree but having two major countries using this might be a good move for more efforts from nations. I know Canada still uses all M$FT platforms and recently moved to EXO.
Purpose built projects like this would be easy for public servants to adopt and adapt their workflow.
I wish we did with more open source and local software. My school in Canada has some agreement with Microsoft so we have to use everything from them.
The school mail used for all accounts is hosted by outlook
The databases are all azure
The 2fa app on our phone to boot the school computer has to be Microsoft (even gave me shit because I am root…)
Teams
We had a whole course for a year on how to use word.
It’s a public school. Obviously with this most students will move to the USA for higher pay, we are literally subsidizing the USA education.
The school board here uses Google, and Microsoft… I emailed their board and the province’s privacy commissionaire asking why. I grew up with an agenda, and that shit worked better than using a website and email for JK/SK aged kids.
What do folks think of cryptpad?
Thinking ofmore like planning on switching from proton after CEO bullshitI’ll look into that one too, I didn’t know about it
Which bullshit are you talking about? I might have missed it and my search didn’t bring much on it
Short version to save others a click: Proton’s CEO tweeted an endorsement of Trump’s FTC pick, going on to praise how apparently the Republicans are now the party for the “little guys” and crediting the ongoing antitrust proceedings to Trump’s first term.
I personally really like Cryptpad. I haven’t heard of Fileverse, so I’ll check it out. Cryptpad is the closest thing I’ve found to a drop-in Google Suite replacement.
Checked out the site on mobile, and it was unresponsive to any of my clicks.
Well this software is more intended for administrative staff working for the government, so I don’t think that decentralisation is their goal here.
Why distributed? Having your data tied to a blockchain seems unnecessarily complicated, and it essentially puts your data at risk if the bulk of the community moves to the next hot thing.
We really need to decouple storage from the apps themselves. Whether you use distributed storage, local storage, or something commercially backed like S3 should be a choice separate from the app you use to view and edit your data.
I self-host Collabora (online version of LibreOffice; OnlyOffice is another option), and my data lives on my NAS, but it could just as easily live on S3 or some distributed data store.
(Not op) Its distrubuted so you don’t lose your content if something happens to one location.
Just browsing the landing page, it looks like the blockchain part offers proof of ownership and strict access controls without having to use a centralized service, which is needed in some form if it’s distrubuted.
I imagine but haven’t seen that it might handle payments for having things be distrubuted as well, which would have meant having to include credit cards otherwise which would complicate things like micro payments to any given person hosting your content.
Edit: also this is the kind of thing that should use an S3 compatible API so you don’t get locked in as you said. It’d let you move the data between providers effortlessly.
Right, but you’ll lose your content if enough people lose interest in the network. That’s absolutely a thing in the crypto world where things move fast. Relying on the network effect to secure your data sounds… sketchy.
Sure, and the easiest way to do that is w/ public key cryptography, sign your encrypted stuff and you can always prove ownership. A blockchain gives you that, but it’s hardly necessary to have consensus around that.
It probably uses some cryptocurrency. Lots of cryptocurrencies work well for micropayments (e.g. LiteCoin, Monero, or even Bitcoin w/ the lightning network).
I just don’t see the need for a blockchain here. Bittorrent has been doing content-based addressing for ages, and it doesn’t need a blockchain, you just ask for the data at a given hash and you get it. Or you can use IPFS. If everything is properly encrypted, you’re good to go!
What the blockchain does offer is a way to pay for storage. So the more you pay, the more likely your data is to still be there after some time as people leave the network and nodes drop and whatnot. All in all though, it seems really risky to put anything important on it, and you might as well just pay for a storage provider from a legal entity that you can sue if things go poorly (and maybe two, so you’re not screwed if goes bankrupt or whatever).
I was looking at it more, and it does use IPFS for the data storage (files and the collaboration chats etc), as well as Arweave, which I’d never heard of until today.
Oh this is interesting. Any pitfalls you could talk about before I go popping this up myself?
It’s pretty easy if you use NextCloud with the AIO image, but if you’re doing anything fancier than that, strap in because there aren’t many decent tutorials.
Even nextcloud-not-AIO offers a way to install the server of office suites through the settings of the admin account all in the web GUI. I’ve chosen onlyoffice but it could have been nextcloud docs or collabora (and soon maybe, this thing)
Yeah I’ve noticed. It was rough figuring out how to set up a reverse proxy with SSL too. Self-hosting is a process.
No America’s club
As someone in and from the US, good. Private companies are far to prevalent in public institutions all over the world. Something as basic and fundamental as word processing should not be controlled by a small select few huge international companies.
Is this just for EU citisens or can Americans like me use it?
Foss, just deploy and enjoy
Don’t know what a Foss is
Free open source software
free and open source software
FOSS (free and open source software) is software that is completely open source and is free for everyone to use. It’s much harder to enshittify, and if it ever does people can fork (make a copy, and make their own changes to the software).
In case you didn’t understood by now, it’s free open source software
So how do I use it?
Here is a get started guide -> github.com/suitenumerique/docs?tab=readme-ov-file…
I was going to make a joke but honestly it’s refreshing and a good sign that Lemmy is starting to get used by people who don’t know what FOSS means now. Welcome.
Nice to see Lemmy is not just a place for complete nerds!
FOSS is free and open-source software. In simple terms, it is any program for which the source code (i.e. the actual code that forms the program, its entire backbone) is available for anyone to see and modify as they see fit, without any technical or legal limitations.
This is normally seen as very positive, because everyone with the knowledge of respective programming languages can inspect the program to see it doesn’t do anything malicious, and everyone can change the program to their needs. Also, the original creator of the program does not have power to put any limitations on its use, like introducing payment requirements, or deleting important features, because everyone can immediately spawn a version of the program that doesn’t have these changes, while still having the rest.
So… how do I use it? I tried signing up on the site, but… it said something about an organization it was poorly transltaed from French to English, so I couldn’t tell what I was doing… I got as far as registering my current email address
It might be a bit early for you. It’s in a way like Lemmy, somebody has to put it on a server and let you use it.
It’s meant for government agencies to deploy and use (although anybody with some self hosting knowledge can do on their servers, including hobbiests and companies)
It’s just for the French civil service, right?
Dont know why we need another foss office but im certainly not going to complain.
It looks closer to the markdown style of formatting though, and I doubt it has page formatting, or other more advanced formatting, or extensions, or a large selection of fonts. Honestly, even though docs has pageless formatting now, most people don’t use it when they should, making everything unnecessary harder to read, so this will be better in that regard at least. This is probably good enough for 95% of what people use Docs for, but I wouldn’t call it a replacement.
I haven’t used it because I don’t have a French government account, so correct me if I’m wrong about any of that.
Edit: it looks like it only has 1 font and no page formatting
There is a public demo instance. The link and test credentials are on the GitHub page.
What does this do over what the collabora tools in Nextcloud do?
NGL I keep forgetting NextCloud has collaboration tools.
Calligra and LibreOffice already exist though. I am not against this in principle but couldn’t they have invested in an existing FOSS project?
Can either of those do collaborative editing? I usually think of that feature when I think of Google Docs
OnlyOffice does for sure, not sure how well it works on LibreOffice Online.
While both of those are great software. Unless I’m not aware of something they aren’t cloud/network based office suites like Google docs and office 365.
It seems this is an alternative to office software where you can work simultaneously and share documents in the same cloud/network.
I don’t think there is an alternative to office 365 and Google docs at this point that is open source. So this seems like a great project and I’ll definitely be considering it for our company.
What about Collabora Online? It integrates nicely into Nextcloud, but I am not sure about pricing for business use.
www.collaboraonline.com/collabora-online/
Guide for self hosting: …readthedocs.io/…/install/
Thanks I’ll definitely check that out. I’ve seen some posts about it working on Synology Nas devices so that’s very interesting.
If you ever diverge away from proprietary Synology solution, NextCloud has 100% integration with Collabora too.
There’s onlyoffice for cloud based office
Onlyoffice seems a little slack on the security and updates. I saw the warnings in the desktop package, have they made sure the online offerings are secure?
If there are issues like this, sounds like a good goal for a country that wants to divest from US tech companies.
what do you mean?
OnlyOffice has a lot of ties with Russia/CIS. I’d personally avoid it on that basis.
Do you have Amy sources on that
There is nextcloud and others you can self host at least.
LibreOffice online exists. It’s not mature, but they could have invest half their time in making it so.
Only Office is natively cloud based, with an optional offline/desktop version.
Both are open source, if the concern is project governance, create a fork and rebrand.
A lot of government programs don’t really make sense and are there just to put a name on a CV sadly. Collabora Online does exactly that and is primary licensed under Mozilla Public License.
They could have easily expanded Collabora. But you know, can’t stamp your name on it.
To be fair, though a new project might not be as efficient as improving another, projects learn off each other, and sometimes it’s good to have developmental ‘competition’, and variety.
Wait LibreOffice has a cloud?
Yes but… www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-online/
Note: The LibreOffice Online repository at TDF is temporarily frozen. Updates on this will be published on our blog and on our website.
yeah
Really glad to see the EU adopt more open source software as a way to combat the centralized control some of the american software companies have over the space.
If I can copy and paste with thought having to install the offline plugin, then I’m in.
Can the UK get some of that?
Is there a German-hosted instance? The URL docs.numerique.gouv.fr/login/ is making me wanna barf and no way I’m clicking it to risk seeing more Fr*nch.
It’s okay, you can curse on the internet.
lol what did the French do to you?
Really cool. I tried to sign up but you have to be part of an officially recognized organization in France and input their registration number as part of the process.
I definitely don’t want the government attached to my personal files, in any country.
Yeah I thought this was open to the general public, I didn’t realize that it was not
I’m sure it will be. This is a government funded thing in the early stages so I can see how they would set it up that way.
We already have kDrive you get 1TB storage for only 2€ a month, it’s based in Switzerland
Is there an open source implementation of kDrive as well?
It is already open-source. All of the source code is on their github and, for docs, they use an implementation of onlyoffice very similar to the one in Nextcloud
Oh that is good to know then. At a cursory glance I only saw the clients’ software available as github repositories and the German and French wikipedia pages called it a proprietary service.
Where are you getting that pricing?
www.infomaniak.com/en/ksuite/kdrive/prices
www.infomaniak.com/en/ksuite/myksuite
1.90€ per month for 1TB
Nice, DINUM is doing a lot so great to see go beyond with supra national collaboration!
I’m using NextCloud (Germany and international open source community) hosted on Webo (Slovenia) with data centers in Germany and Helsinki (so I bet on Hetzner). I’m happy with it but I’ll keep on eye on github.com/suitenumerique/docs
I’d be curious, they use Minio which puts S3 first. Does it mean Docs (the official instance) is relying on AWS?
If so IMHO that’s not a great default EU sovereignty.
FWIW if others are curious github.com/suitenumerique/docs/issues/755 opened an issue
I thought that MinIO is a Open-Source S3 implementation, which you can just install on your own system. S3 is a “protocol” here IIUC.
Is your complaint that they are using the S3 protocol, because it was invented and is controlled by AWS?
Or that some services might use it without MinIO, directly on AWS?
Seems I misunderstood, if it’s solely the branding (of that implementation) then it’s fine. I thought they relied on AWS itself.
I would assume (without having looked at the codebase) that if they use minio they are, by default, not reliant on AWS.
Minio is its own S3 implementation which can be self-hosted.
S3, being an AWS protocol originally has
AWSenvironment variables all over the place but that does not necessarily mean a reliance on the service. Rather, they rely on the protocol and you bring your own S3 endpoint I would assume. be that minio, hetzner or what have you.Thanks for the clarification, that makes sense, closing the issue then.
and why so?
Living under a rock eh?
I mean I didn’t see any alarming need of a Google doc alternative, so I might actually be under a rock
Thats great
Now explain this to EU based corporations, which in my opinion needs to be the focus on making the change. They drive the economy. All major assets in software income are being routed to American firms through their licenses.