They need to disguise their nationality not just because they can get paid more by impersonating Westerners, but due to the extensive international sanctions North Korea is under
I just see people calling this a scam so much when sometimes itâs literally just people getting a job when theyâre not allowed to be paid. That paired with âthey pretend to be westerners so they can get paid moreâ like well why is it that westerners get paid more than Asians? Just a real interesting quote.
I guess because Russia and China, the countries they worked in, think Westerners can code better than North Koreans?
I donât know if Iâd call it a scam so much as slavery.
emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Aug 17:53
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The article says he worked from China, for US and European companies. Which explains both the pay difference and the concern about the sanctions.
GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
on 02 Aug 12:58
nextcollapse
The BBC cannot independently verify the specifics of Jin-suâs testimony, but through PSCORE, an organisation which advocates for North Korean human rights, weâve read testimony from another IT worker who defected that supports Jin-suâs claims.
Oh. Ok. Youâd think he can prove something with like a pay stub, at minimum. But I guess the standard of proof when reporting on N Korea is âan anti-n korea org also said so.â I was genuinely interested in this article until that line.
SupraMario@lemmy.world
on 02 Aug 13:25
nextcollapse
Wait⌠youâre doubtful because itâs coming from a anti-NK instance? A pay stub is just going to show he worked. He could have bought and sent bitcoin or done so with cash drop offs. Why does this story magically no longer become interesting because of a group that helps defected NKs?
Itâs no longer interesting because itâs probably bullshit - which is par for the course for these CIA cutouts. These are the same groups that push absurd ideas about state-mandated haircuts, Kim Jong Un dying, that Kim Jong Un executed his ex, that North Korea banned sarcasm, that Kim Jong Il claims he once shot 11 straight holes in one, etc⌠these pieces get absolutely eaten up by western liberals who, in the next breath, will call citizens of the DPRK the most propagandized on earth.
The reason China spreads so much propaganda about North Korea actually being totally normal and everything bad you hear about it actually being CIA propaganda lies/because of western sanctions, is because they donât want to admit any responsibility for being the largest trading partner to a despotic authoritarian regime.
Thatâs why you only see this kind of weird denialism around North Korea, and not the other places with shitty leaders and backwards authoritarian laws.
You are repeating Chinese propaganda. You need to understand North Korea isnât socialist. China isnât socialist. And just because America, a country that has done a lot of anti-socialist shitty things, says that North Korea is run by a despot, doesnât mean theyâre wrong. North Korea is run by a despot. Just because people have said things about North Korea that have been proven wrong, doesnât mean everything ever said about North Korea is wrong.
TachyonTele@piefed.social
on 03 Aug 11:59
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Why does this story magically no longer become interesting because of a group that helps defected NKs?
There is nothing magic about it. The organization thatâs cited isnât the problem. The problem is the BBC cites that org as proof that this personâs claims are true. But neither that org nor the BBC have said, âwe have corroborated Jin-suâs story.â On the contrary, the BBC just admits they didnât or couldnât corroborate the story themselves. So in my mind I may as well have read this article on any randoâs blog post, or in the NYT in 2001 under a Judith Miller byline. It lacks credence.
I wouldnât have had anything to say if BBC said that they reviewed some documents that showed Jin-suâs claim. Maybe a few of the âhundredsâ of fake IDs that he used, for example. But instead they just read another testimony from PSCORE. Was that other testimony verified? They donât bother explaining. So they just use an unverified testimony from PSCORE and pass that off to make the reader believe that thatâs good enough in place of actually verifying Jin-suâs testimony!
TachyonTele@piefed.social
on 02 Aug 13:27
nextcollapse
ml and their daydream of a perfect NK is hilarious to see in the wild.
witheyeandclaw@lemmy.sdf.org
on 02 Aug 14:39
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You can have healthy skepticism without jumping to the other end of the spectrum of DPRK stan.
Youâre not addressing the fact that BBC admits they didnât/couldnât substantiate his claims, which apparently is no problem for your own journalistic standards.
TachyonTele@piefed.social
on 02 Aug 23:35
nextcollapse
Why would i address that?
Was i ordered to adress anything other than what I've already commented on?
Have I been compelled to address it?
Do i believe in any way that NK isn't unfortunately a shithole fascist dictatorship of a country?
Do i feel bad for you for wanting to think NK is a theme park sunday stroll paradise?
They are reporting on what he told them. Would you expect a news outlet to be able to somehow verify the testimony of a prisoner of war before reporting on it?
The title and article both make it clear that they are reporting his story.
Additionally, the rest of the article - including the ones before and after your quote - discusses numerous cases of other similar scenarios.
Would you expect a news outlet to be able to somehow verify the testimony of a prisoner of war before reporting on it?
âIf the circumstance were different would you expect something different?â is what you are asking me. The interviewee isnât a POW, but a defector. And not an escapee, because according to the article he was already sent abroad, so itâs not like he fled with merely the clothes on his back and a story to tell. So I would presume he would have a bit more evidence to share with the BBC than just a story, just as many of the people responding to me seem to presume that because itâs been reported by the BBC itâs prima facie undeniably true.
On second thought letâs not go to lemmy.ml. It is a silly place.
Takapapatapaka@tarte.nuage-libre.fr
on 02 Aug 15:28
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There are also reports by companies and american judiciary system. Now, those are biased voices too, they lack clear proof of what happened, and they probably make it bigger than it is, but i find it unlikely that this is 100% bs and staging : if i had that much resources to pour into staging something, i think it would be more convincing.
Iâm not doubting the N Korean scheme to infiltrate IT jobs. Thereâs even that woman who was prosecuted (I think she lived in Arizona?) because she is one person who acted as a facilitator for this scheme. My point is the BBC ran a story with an âanonymousâ source then admits in the middle that they couldnât substantiate any of the claims. Thatâs the problem here.
Takapapatapaka@tarte.nuage-libre.fr
on 02 Aug 17:34
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Okay, my mistake, i misinterpreted it. To be fair with BBC, they point out in the title and article that this is just some transcript of someone anonymous, and they try to tie each allegation with reports from other sources to back up their likeliness. I guess it's the best you can do with someone anonymous ? Revealing the company, dates, or town might compromise the anonymity. I have this low-key uncomfortable feeling of "well, there's nothing that proves it" with most anonymous reports i read or hear, even when it's for events that are common otherwise.
In cases like these the journalists can and often do say something to the effect of they were able to corroborate the claims. But youâre super right about being careful, because they also can mishandle the data they receive to the point where they dox the anonymous source, too. Thatâs what happened with Reality Winner and The Intercept. They botched it, and she was arrested.
No need for good computers to train agents. They donât need to play crysis to train as hackers. Something on the level of a Pi (or more accurately of a 2010 laptop) is good enough.
threaded - newest
đ¤
I donât get it, why the inquisitive fave?
I just see people calling this a scam so much when sometimes itâs literally just people getting a job when theyâre not allowed to be paid. That paired with âthey pretend to be westerners so they can get paid moreâ like well why is it that westerners get paid more than Asians? Just a real interesting quote.
I guess because Russia and China, the countries they worked in, think Westerners can code better than North Koreans?
I donât know if Iâd call it a scam so much as slavery.
The article says he worked from China, for US and European companies. Which explains both the pay difference and the concern about the sanctions.
Oh. Ok. Youâd think he can prove something with like a pay stub, at minimum. But I guess the standard of proof when reporting on N Korea is âan anti-n korea org also said so.â I was genuinely interested in this article until that line.
Wait⌠youâre doubtful because itâs coming from a anti-NK instance? A pay stub is just going to show he worked. He could have bought and sent bitcoin or done so with cash drop offs. Why does this story magically no longer become interesting because of a group that helps defected NKs?
Itâs no longer interesting because itâs probably bullshit - which is par for the course for these CIA cutouts. These are the same groups that push absurd ideas about state-mandated haircuts, Kim Jong Un dying, that Kim Jong Un executed his ex, that North Korea banned sarcasm, that Kim Jong Il claims he once shot 11 straight holes in one, etc⌠these pieces get absolutely eaten up by western liberals who, in the next breath, will call citizens of the DPRK the most propagandized on earth.
The reason China spreads so much propaganda about North Korea actually being totally normal and everything bad you hear about it actually being CIA propaganda lies/because of western sanctions, is because they donât want to admit any responsibility for being the largest trading partner to a despotic authoritarian regime.
Thatâs why you only see this kind of weird denialism around North Korea, and not the other places with shitty leaders and backwards authoritarian laws.
You are repeating Chinese propaganda. You need to understand North Korea isnât socialist. China isnât socialist. And just because America, a country that has done a lot of anti-socialist shitty things, says that North Korea is run by a despot, doesnât mean theyâre wrong. North Korea is run by a despot. Just because people have said things about North Korea that have been proven wrong, doesnât mean everything ever said about North Korea is wrong.
Lol another ml that thinks NK is a paradise
There is nothing magic about it. The organization thatâs cited isnât the problem. The problem is the BBC cites that org as proof that this personâs claims are true. But neither that org nor the BBC have said, âwe have corroborated Jin-suâs story.â On the contrary, the BBC just admits they didnât or couldnât corroborate the story themselves. So in my mind I may as well have read this article on any randoâs blog post, or in the NYT in 2001 under a Judith Miller byline. It lacks credence.
I wouldnât have had anything to say if BBC said that they reviewed some documents that showed Jin-suâs claim. Maybe a few of the âhundredsâ of fake IDs that he used, for example. But instead they just read another testimony from PSCORE. Was that other testimony verified? They donât bother explaining. So they just use an unverified testimony from PSCORE and pass that off to make the reader believe that thatâs good enough in place of actually verifying Jin-suâs testimony!
ml and their daydream of a perfect NK is hilarious to see in the wild.
You can have healthy skepticism without jumping to the other end of the spectrum of DPRK stan.
Normal people can, yes, but .ml isnât full of normal people. Thereâs a good reason for the instanceâs stereotype.
Youâre not addressing the fact that BBC admits they didnât/couldnât substantiate his claims, which apparently is no problem for your own journalistic standards.
Why would i address that?
Was i ordered to adress anything other than what I've already commented on?
Have I been compelled to address it?
Do i believe in any way that NK isn't unfortunately a shithole fascist dictatorship of a country?
Do i feel bad for you for wanting to think NK is a theme park sunday stroll paradise?
No.
Youâre tedious and annoying.
If tedious and annoying means you can't handle reality, yes, yes I am.
They are reporting on what he told them. Would you expect a news outlet to be able to somehow verify the testimony of a prisoner of war before reporting on it?
The title and article both make it clear that they are reporting his story.
Additionally, the rest of the article - including the ones before and after your quote - discusses numerous cases of other similar scenarios.
âIf the circumstance were different would you expect something different?â is what you are asking me. The interviewee isnât a POW, but a defector. And not an escapee, because according to the article he was already sent abroad, so itâs not like he fled with merely the clothes on his back and a story to tell. So I would presume he would have a bit more evidence to share with the BBC than just a story, just as many of the people responding to me seem to presume that because itâs been reported by the BBC itâs prima facie undeniably true.
No, an organization that advocates for North Korean human rights. Thatâs a pro-north korea org.
You gonna tell me that people who have a problem with Pol Pot are âAnti-Cambodianâ, Mr â.mlâ?
Tankies just arenât serious people.
On second thought letâs not go to lemmy.ml. It is a silly place.
There are also reports by companies and american judiciary system. Now, those are biased voices too, they lack clear proof of what happened, and they probably make it bigger than it is, but i find it unlikely that this is 100% bs and staging : if i had that much resources to pour into staging something, i think it would be more convincing.
Iâm not doubting the N Korean scheme to infiltrate IT jobs. Thereâs even that woman who was prosecuted (I think she lived in Arizona?) because she is one person who acted as a facilitator for this scheme. My point is the BBC ran a story with an âanonymousâ source then admits in the middle that they couldnât substantiate any of the claims. Thatâs the problem here.
Okay, my mistake, i misinterpreted it. To be fair with BBC, they point out in the title and article that this is just some transcript of someone anonymous, and they try to tie each allegation with reports from other sources to back up their likeliness. I guess it's the best you can do with someone anonymous ? Revealing the company, dates, or town might compromise the anonymity. I have this low-key uncomfortable feeling of "well, there's nothing that proves it" with most anonymous reports i read or hear, even when it's for events that are common otherwise.
In cases like these the journalists can and often do say something to the effect of they were able to corroborate the claims. But youâre super right about being careful, because they also can mishandle the data they receive to the point where they dox the anonymous source, too. Thatâs what happened with Reality Winner and The Intercept. They botched it, and she was arrested.
No one knew he was an IT worker.
<img alt="" src="https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/0017a0cb-555c-46c7-9cb1-5be0b882e4de.jpeg">
How many forensic scientists did it take to work that one out? đ
I font understand one thing, if North Korea does not even have good computers how do they train their agents?
Didnât they get a lot of computer hardware from Russia recently?
No need for good computers to train agents. They donât need to play crysis to train as hackers. Something on the level of a Pi (or more accurately of a 2010 laptop) is good enough.