Battery tech has still come a long way since say 10 years ago, even though the “next gen” stuff hasn’t made it to scaled production. Looks like this is the beginning of scaled production, though.

The difference is this is actually shipping to manufacturers.

Battery tech is constantly having huge breakthroughs. They are just come in small steps.

I mean a smart phone is literally a battery powered computer. It’s absolutely astounding compared to what we had 10/20 years ago.

There may not be a revolutionary discovery, but we are nearing a tipping point where battery makes more sense for most disconnected power storage than anything else.

The cell phone I had 30 years ago had a battery pack that was about as big as my current cell phone and was 500 mAh. My current cell phone has a little battery tucked away in it that stores 4000 mAh, recharges about as fast, and can be recharged more before it loses a significant amount of its capacity. It also costs about 1% per mAh of the price of that battery from 30 years ago.

Just because you haven’t bothered to investigate advances in battery technology doesn’t mean significant advances haven’t occurred.

True, as far as big leaps go there hasn’t mean anything since the introduction of lithium based batteries to the market.

Until now. This is it and they have production working. Safer than lithium. Longer lasting, quicker charging, should perform fine in extreme cold, more energy dense, and solid state.

The next big thing is finally here.

feels a bit like fusion power

The market will segment away from the current tech anyway. CATL Sodium-ion with comparatively low densities but also extremely low prices per kWh will likely win the low-end market and the market for stationary solutions. This is just due to the much lower resource costs. The high-end will be up for things like this battery by Samsung (or other comparable pilot products). The current technology will likely be in a weird middle spot.

There won’t be many charging stations able to output that kind of wattage tho

About noise, above 30km/h electric cars are as noisy as gas powered one.

It’s better but not the panacea either.

Totally with you, but tire dust is one of the major pollution particles from cars, maybe even the worst AFAIK. That, sadly will not go away but it is still leagues more desireable to have everything on electric than fossil fuel. Can’t have perfect stop good enough.

The traffic noise will stay the same, from tires, honking and some fake engine noise they’ll mandate for pedestrian safety.
Do yourself a favor and spend some time in an area without cars. It’s amazing what it does to your mental health.

The tire noise EVs make is about the same as an ICE car at about 50 kph (30 mph) so it doesn’t make much difference on busy roads. It does make a huge difference in slow traffic.

Building massive production capacity to replace all the cars just locks us in to having cars though

And that’s the thing. As much as we’ve gotten used to it over the past hundred years, progress is absolutely not automatic.

If people don’t buy the current stuff, it reduces the chance of advancement for that tech. Most things will only get better if people are buying the current versions.

We’ve had solar power tech for 50 years. Solar initiatives under Carter were actually pretty good. You know who killed it, or I expect we’d have solar on most roofs today.

I recently visited Switzerland, and the amount of rooftop solar there was insane.

(Solar is of course closely linked to battery tech.)

Well, Toyota has promised 2026 for their battery tech and hasn’t changed that guidance, so I think there’s a decent chance they’ll stick to that timeline. I don’t know if Samsung is their supplier or if they’re competing on the tech, but if it’s the latter, I expect we’ll see something in the next 2-3 years.

That’s completely wrong. Lab research continues and we’re not close to the theoretical limits of energy density yet.

It would be way more informative if we got battery cycles instead of years, density instead of “600 miles” and max charging power instead of minutes.
Off topic but I learned a new word, “succinct”, thanks!

I’m thinking less in terms of lifespan and more in terms of range and charging time.

You shouldn’t have to upgrade your entire car to get a 600 mile range and 9 minute charge time if all that’s needed is better battery tech.

That’s a super awful idea, so battery EOL = car EOL.

Exactly. I’m interested if this is in the $30-40k range. It’s probably not.

In a home, power density doesn’t really matter. If a battery is large and heavy, you still only transport it twice. Once new, once when you replace it.

Exactly. I have a lot of space in my garage, not as much in my car.

Fucking hell, imagine the requirement of a couple of megawatt substation for fast charging, urban power planners must be shitting themselves.

If you do the math, the common standard plugs simply can’t do the charging rates that would be required here. You’d need a whole new plug design on top of all new chargers.

It’s also silly and unnecessary. We should focus on getting more chargers out there, not chasing a fast charge time goal. If you plan your route out a bit, 20-30 minute charge times every 2-4 hours are fine for the vast majority of people.

wumpus-cave.net/post/2024/03/…/index.html

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The chemistry is substantially different, so we’ll probably have to wait until scientists run some tests to get a more precise set of parameters that affect degradation. I expect failure modes like dendrites are basically impossible with solid-state, but electrode cracking is still possible. There might even be new and exciting ways they can degrade! Regardless, this is still great news.

Engineering Explained has a good summary: https://youtu.be/w4lvDGtfI9U (Piped link: https://piped.video/watch?v=w4lvDGtfI9U)

Well most people are not needing to add over 400 miles when they charge up. That might be the case once a year for occasional families but most will be looking to add half that which is not much more time than it takes to fill up with gas. It might cause charging stations to offer more amenities. Or maybe the government could get off its ass and make it okay to put them in at rest stops, there wouldn’t be much of a problem at all.

That is the case for some people but cases like that are pretty rare. There is no way I could do a drive like that. Current EVs are fine for the vast majority of people but there is the rare family that makes 900 mile trips once our twice a year. For those instances like yours, I’d suggest renting an ICE one or twice a year if you wanted to switch to an EV for your larger vehicle or get a plug in hybrid.

Definitely swap out that commuter car. A used Bolt is pretty darn cheap. I did some math and replacing our Prius C with one would save $1200/year in gas costs. And then there are oil change costs that you save and a few others.

That’s a long day in the car, too much for me. Any road trip over about 350 miles gets me pretty exhausted and sick of being in the car. So I’d be OK with a 300 mile range and stopping overnight at a hotel with a charger nearby for trips like that.

Yeah I often drive over 1000 miles in a day, sometimes as much as 1600+ so this is the only way I’d consider electric. Although it sounds like at a high speed supercharger it would be more expensive than regular gasoline. At least there’s progress.

I mean that particular version of it or any solid state tech because https://www.amazon.com/Yoshino-Solid-State-B4000-SST-Generator/dp/B0CPPKFXP3

These aren’t in a lab. They’re being manufactured right now.

There’s a toxic positivity in battery tech news. So many things only end up being practical in a lab, but the news headlines sensationalizes every single one. Its led people to believe that no advancements are coming. But the truth is that batteries improve 5-8% in kwh/kg per year, and that compounds over time to some real gains.

Unfortunately, I do not

That’s a pretty sexy looking battery

On Korean products?

Won’t matter much; Chinese EVs are so inexpensively made, especially with subsidies, while exceeding European and American auto safety standards that tariffs for the last five years haven’t stopped them expanding outside of Asia.

In addition, EVs are so much cheaper to produce, run and maintain for auto companies that tariffs aren’t going to make much of a difference stemming the continued EV manufacturing explosion.

Capacity and range will just keep going up, any tariffs have so far been and will be footnotes in EV story rather than any sort of relevant market mechanism

Oh yea, I hadn’t heard of that, good share.

That’s very cool

I don’t trust it. Off brand looking name. Has the high price, but then their upcharge for a few cheap looking solar panels is like a ridiculous $1400.

Seriously, why are they so absolutely shit at software. It boggles the mind.

Well my $1800 phone has push notification ads for mobile games I can’t disable because Samsung flags the Galaxy Store as a system app so you can’t disable notifications. You can see here that the option is greyed out.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/1928b884-cf45-4ec7-b273-9ef5ad205ca8.jpeg">

They also install shitty games with “security updates” every month or so.

Except when they explode. 😀

It’s a battery. You put it in the car, and it powers it. How much support does the manufacturer need to provide that can’t be baked into the initial cost?

Only because things are too expensive for plebes to buy outright! Mortgages are basically subscriptions too. Or “layaway” at least.

Thanks to monthly payments for everything, you can have whatever TV you want!

Like Miles Davis… (1.69m give or take a trumpet)

Wow, 1 megameter for a vehicle weighing 2 megagrams. That’s some serious efficiency

muh legacy nepo babies

Are they actually saying that? The kids or the parents?

I’d appreciate if people just like you would stop taking any solace and tolerating this bs. The ONLY reason this shit continues to happen is because too many people do nothing. Then when asked they get defensive and say, “What am I supposed to do?!” followed by “What are you doing?!” Like guys, you’re smart enough to recognize the perils of these industries, read journals and papers, and internalize the evidence, and you can’t fucking do a quick Google search on activism and even lightly contemplate entering yourself into local politics?

Come now.

Concrete is effective at sealing shut bunker doors, and air ventilation systems, as is caulk

You’re probably thinking of cobalt or perhaps hard rock lithium mines. Most lithium is just pumped out of the ground as brines, just like oil.

This is true but coal mining is just as bad and requires orders of magnitude (mineral fuels) more excavation than all of the other minerals combined. If we can stop mining coal by using renewables the total amount of mining will be a fraction of what it currently is. Plus many of the other minerals can be reused where coal just ends up as carbon in the atmosphere.

You’re missing the big picture. Firstly because they’re reducing the cobalt requirements in batteries which will massively help. Also long-term lithium and cobalt are metals, they are found all over the place. Oil and coal are products that require life and as far as we know Earth is the only planet in the solar system to have organics like that.

But we can mine asteroids for materials to build batteries. Long before that we’ll have automation to mine the materials on Earth does not requiring human labor. Long-Term this is an improvement it isn’t a zero-sum gain at all like you’re making out

You really sound desperate to reject any possibility that hard work and human ingenuity can solve problems. I assume it’s because you’re scared of feeling you have to actually take life seriously and consider the implications of each choice you make.

They can do that with a lot of them, but not all. You can’t really sell an oil platform when nobody is buying oil anymore. The “stranded assets” is a huge motivator for fossil industries to prolong the switch to renewables as long as possible. Problem is the governments being complicit. They could have made clear paths from when on no new fossil investments were allowed to create a proper phase out.

How are they going to convert their assets in that scenario? The value of oil will just go down from here on out, eventually it’ll reach a point where it starts going back up again because it’ll be such a hard to acquire commodity for the few people that want it.

Eventually we’ll get to a point where the only people who use oil are rich people who can afford to run vintage cars and presumably pay some kind of carbon offset tax.

Personally I like small, lightweight cars because they’re fun to drive and somewhat efficient. Obviously the f150 doesn’t light my fire in that regard, but the model Y isn’t exactly a nimble little thing either. Between weight and annoying tech (screens and driver assist mostly), I’m honestly not interested in modern cars at all

Gas-holes will tell you that the rare metals leak poison into dirt.

As if gasoline isnt already doing that.

Because carrying a 2-ton metal box around you for every single trip you want to do is the least efficient possible way of doing so. Walk places, ride bikes, take trains, minimize car trips and promote carsharing for the occasional trips where cars are actually necessary.

We literally can’t all switch to electric right now so that’s not a problem 😉 but yeah, if I do try to imagine it, I imagine a world where most people charge their cars at home or at work, so the only problem to solve is upping the charging capacity along certain long distance tourist routes. But we can build lots of lovely high speed rail to help decongest those routes 😋

Keep in mind gas stations wouldn’t have the same day-to-day demand that they do now. Most people will charge overnight, and the long-haul charge points or tourist destinations would be where things clog up.

95% of charging would be done at home, since I get tons of energy from the sun. I have a feeling many other people would be doing the same. Highway stations are a different story though.

Most people on long-term road trips time their stops with meals anyway. If this became a reality, and charging infrastructure got directly built in to parking spaces at rest stops, then they can probably tolerate a 15 minute wait ti charge while they eat lunch.

Cold fusion is right around the corner!

i thought they’re already at “triple cold² fusion++” ;-)

yet these are never make it to market.

my personal favorite (but not a battery) were two different fake news about fans without any moving parts, one with electricity, conductors and shapes only, the other using ultrasonic somehow, how cool were these lies !!!

…com.au/…/silent-microchip-fan-has-no-moving-part…

“RSD5 is the culmination of six years of research by Dan Schlitz and Vishal Singhal of Thorrn Micro Technologies”

“Six years of research”, such a cool “product” and now that linked thorrn domain is for sale, how bad!! the world will never profit from their super “cool” invention !!!

“today” other bladeless fans (based on ultrasonic freqs) were anounced: linustechtips.com/…/1471374-not-a-big-fan-new-sol… (“Frore is expecting to start shipping units in Q1 of next year.” which was news from 2022) but did you hear about that cool product beeing shipped yet? i would have, i’m somehow sure, but somehow i didn’t. maybe the “units” they wanted to ship were just something else *lol That article also says: “Frore Systems hasn’t announced any actual computers featuring its Airjet solid-state coolers. But the company is already in partnership with the likes of Intel […]” no actual result, but already partners like intel (intel, how does’nt that already fit !!)

The same nonexisting effect (fan without moving parts), abused (at least) twice. (i’ll just ignore those “bladeless fans” here that officially just have hidden “propellers”) but military says “twice” is already a scheme…

why should it be different for batteries?

if they produce batteries THAT good, they would never sell them but make them available only for rent, to maximise their(!) ROI (and not yours). so i guess it’s yafn - yet another fake news. i might still be wrong however, but i also like to be on the safe side of predictions ;-)

a theory: the richies offsprings startups desperately need other lies than their parents and grandparents who already used up nearly all language-allowed possible lies (as well as nonverbal lies, just watch tv for a while to see it in action) to distract people, companies and govs to ‘invest’ in them instead of i.e. in the future or in the nation, thus new nonexistant technologies is what the richies offspring found best to be their lies about.

Cold fusion certainly isn’t.