Your TV Is Spying On You (www.ludlowinstitute.org)
from Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 20:42
https://programming.dev/post/32641038

You sit down to relax, put on your favorite show, and settle in for a night of binge-watching. But while you’re watching your TV… your TV is watching you.

Smart TVs take constant snapshots of everything you watch. Sometimes hundreds of snapshots a second.

Welcome to the future of “entertainment.”

#technology

threaded - newest

thedruid@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 20:45 next collapse

No shit

hansolo@lemmy.today on 21 Jun 20:49 next collapse

In other news, water found to be wet, puppies cute. More at 11.

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 22:07 collapse

Do you have pictures of these puppies? We need confirmation.

hansolo@lemmy.today on 22 Jun 07:15 collapse
AlternatePersonMan@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 21:06 next collapse

It’s almost like we should have strong data privacy laws so companies can’t spy on everything we do…

FinalRemix@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:20 next collapse

But think of the corporations! Why isn’t anyone thinking of the poor withering corporations?!

Jakule17@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 17:22 collapse

European liberals are trying to weaken gdpr

[deleted] on 21 Jun 21:10 next collapse

.

shiroininja@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 21:24 next collapse

So does your isp, and uses that for targeted ads. My pihole is constantly blocking a domain ran by xfinity that collects data for their targeted ad service

plantsmakemehappy@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 21:47 next collapse

What domain do I can make sure it’s blocked?

MyPornViewingAccount@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 22:04 next collapse

Id also like to know what lists hes using

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 22:06 next collapse

It’s porn@allthepornontheinternet.com

shiroininja@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:28 next collapse

I’m using like 30 block lists with over 1,900,000 blocked domains. There is a site that had a bunch of blocklists and I just grabbed most of them

plantsmakemehappy@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 01:13 collapse

It’s on raw.githubusercontent.com/StevenBlack/…/hosts

I also have additional lists from firebog.net, and I use jacklul/pihole-updatelists to maintain it.

supernicepojo@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 22:47 next collapse
shiroininja@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:29 collapse

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/04f892d6-1189-4390-8257-e1f1bc24f0a7.jpeg">

This

plantsmakemehappy@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 01:09 collapse

Thanks, looks like it’s on the Stevenblack list.

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 22:08 next collapse

I’ve really gotta look into pihole.

shiroininja@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:29 next collapse

It’s really been great

JohnnyWishbone@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 06:52 collapse

Me too

supernicepojo@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 22:45 next collapse

Can I get some more info. Do you know what device on your network is asking for said address?

Roku: has its own problems, but I dont use the smart tv features and turn them all off especially the wifi. It doesnt talk to my isp and ive never got requests from it.

shiroininja@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:27 collapse

I think it’s my LG TV. But it has its own service that I also block.

Here is the service from xfinity that I’m talking about. It’s relatively new to my network and has increased my blocked percentage by a lot. Mind you, I have 1,900,000+ domains on my blocklist

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/15438076-93b1-4036-b37e-d55f3194b67e.jpeg">

supernicepojo@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:41 collapse

Are you using isp provided hardware?

My experience with said items has been poor. Literal open doors to your network.

shiroininja@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:58 collapse

I’m using my xfinity router/modem in bridge mode to my router.

supernicepojo@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 11:15 collapse

Do whatever you can to remove this from your network as soon as you can. OpenWRT as a suggestion.

Lojcs@lemm.ee on 22 Jun 00:29 collapse

I don’t think those two facts are related? Your isp doesn’t need to connect to its servers from within your local network to track your internet usage. Something else in your network must be trying to connect to that domain

Enkers@sh.itjust.works on 21 Jun 21:51 next collapse

It doesn’t if you don’t connect it to the internet. Fortunately most smart TVs still have HDMI inputs so you can use them as dumb TVs with a PC.

kescusay@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 21:59 collapse

Yep. My TV has not and never will be on the Internet in any way. I picked it for its screen quality, and the fact that it also has “smart” components never even entered into the decision. Because those smart components will literally never do anything.

tdawg@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 21:52 next collapse

Comms must be infrequent bc my domain sink doesn’t log anything like that from my tv when I’ve checked

Nima@leminal.space on 21 Jun 21:58 next collapse

oh I disabled my “smart” TV’s ability to connect to the internet. its a dumb TV now.

it made the mistake of showing me a banner ad while I was gaming. so I promptly cut its balls off in retaliation.

MyPornViewingAccount@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 22:03 collapse

You can run pihole on Ubuntu.

Point all your network traffic on it and you can still use your TV without your tv using you.

lemmylommy@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 06:40 collapse

You probably can use your tv without it using you, or probably not.

I, too, use pihole. But it does not prevent your data from leaking 100% and never will. And it’s easily circumvented by using other DNS servers or even by connecting to hardcoded IPs. I dont know specifically about TVs, but some manufacturers do that.

The only way to make sure that TV can never spy is to never connect it to the internet.

JustARegularNerd@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 21 Jun 22:03 next collapse

Part of the reason why I take good care of my little 24" dumb TV. It’s on the lower end (poor viewing angles, absolutely no adjustment on the legs) but I still have a use for it, so I won’t be replacing it.

The other concern I have with smart TVs is because manufacturers basically install a smartphone SoC, the TV’s lifecycle is now the same as a smartphone. Most people probably won’t connect a new smart TV box to their discontinued, laggy (thanks to bloated apps) smart TV, the completely functional unit just gets replaced.

We need regulation to be able to unlock these devices and make available the firmware drivers so that after the manufacturer stops support, the community can continue it (and obviously for us hackers, we would strip the system of all telemetry)

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 22:05 next collapse

YOUR tv is spying on you. MY tv has no smart capability.

heavy@sh.itjust.works on 21 Jun 22:56 collapse

How does that help me though?

UntitledQuitting@reddthat.com on 21 Jun 23:12 next collapse

Is every comment in the world supposed to cater to you? Are people allowed to add to discussions without consulting you first?

heavy@sh.itjust.works on 21 Jun 23:43 next collapse

Yikes, I didn’t know I was being hostile, sorry I hurt your feelings.

DancingBear@midwest.social on 22 Jun 00:11 collapse

You will never be forgiven!

heavy@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 00:28 collapse

I probably have some bad karma :(

DancingBear@midwest.social on 22 Jun 00:33 collapse

Pal, it’s way beyond bad karma at this point!!!

Zorque@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 00:08 collapse

Is it adding to discussions or just posturing? Much like heavy’s comment was about their issues, Lost_My_Mind’s was also about their own situation. Why is the latter acceptable and the former not?

My assumption is not because it promotes discussion, but because it’s something that’s more people emotionally agree with.

Wrufieotnak@feddit.org on 22 Jun 06:03 collapse

Yeah it contributes to the discussion with the simple solution on how not to be spied on by your TV, in an admittedly patronising way.

FinalRemix@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:18 next collapse

Disconnect it from the internet…?

RagingSnarkasm@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 03:57 collapse

I think they are inviting you over to their place to watch some (dumb) TV?

heavy@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 05:58 collapse

Finally, some good TV :)

f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4@sopuli.xyz on 21 Jun 22:08 next collapse

The company that made my TV is engaged in copyright infringement, you say? Transmitting copyrighted images over the Internet for profit?

Huh.

sexy_peach@feddit.org on 21 Jun 22:11 next collapse

Not mine, since I don’t have one ;)

lemmylommy@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 22:14 next collapse

Hundreds of snapshots a second? So my tv has at least 200 Hz? Or do they snap the same frame multiple times just for fun?

TipRing@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:03 next collapse

My ACL says my TV can’t talk to the internet.

ryannathans@aussie.zone on 22 Jun 01:57 collapse

Solar systems have mobile modems in them to phone home

Cars have mobile modems in them to phone home

Maybe some TVs do too

TipRing@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 02:14 next collapse

No carrier has cell service at my house but maybe they will add a sat phone.

Zron@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 03:11 next collapse

Nothing a jumper wire can’t fix

suicidaleggroll@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 04:37 collapse

TVs are way too inexpensive for manufacturers to pay for modems, service fees, and bandwidth fees to collect this kind of data. They’d spend more paying for that cell connection over the lifetime of the TV than you paid for the product in the first place. Solar systems and cars that cost many tens of thousands of dollars are a completely different ballpark compared to a $500-1000 TV.

ryannathans@aussie.zone on 22 Jun 08:01 collapse

Compromised solar systems are in the realm of $500-$1000 for the inverter

GreenKnight23@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 23:12 next collapse

no it isn’t. yours might be, but not mine.

captainastronaut@seattlelunarsociety.org on 22 Jun 02:32 next collapse

Stupid TVs FTW. If you can’t buy them stupid, give them a WiFi lobotomy.

tfowinder@lemmy.ml on 22 Jun 10:38 collapse

There has to be a youtube guide to giving WiFi Lobotomy

nonentity@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 03:59 next collapse

I’ve never allowed my TV to have an active route to the internet since I bought it in 2019, it’s exclusively fed over HDMI by gaming consoles and an Apple TV.

The thing is, HDMI 1.4 added HEC, so what’s to prevent media players from serving as an Ethernet switch and providing an internet connection to TVs.

tfowinder@lemmy.ml on 22 Jun 10:37 next collapse

HEC feature enables IP-based applications over HDMI and provides a bidirectional Ethernet communication at 100 Mbit/s

I think the bandwidth is too slow for HD/4K Streams.

I am sure the 100 Mbit/s must also be theoretical maximum, i would be impressed if practical cables supports even half the orignal specs

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 10:59 next collapse

for streaming, yeah, for tracking its plenty

cole@lemdro.id on 22 Jun 21:21 collapse

100Mbit/s is plenty for streaming even 8k

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 11:01 collapse

for streaming, yeah, for tracking its plenty

3dcandy@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 12:29 collapse

Apple TV is watching you 😁

JTskulk@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 05:04 next collapse

My TV is not a smart TV, it’s not spying on me.

finitebanjo@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 06:17 next collapse

Well, maybe a Hisense or a cheap soundbar might have a listening device, but they’ll be hard pressed to phone home.

tfowinder@lemmy.ml on 22 Jun 10:37 collapse

How old is it ? Which one did you buy

JTskulk@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 02:41 collapse

2 1920x1080 LG ones probably over 10 years ago. If smart TVs can’t get online they can’t spy on you.

tatterdemalion@programming.dev on 22 Jun 06:56 next collapse

Does anyone know if there’s a domain blocklist for smart TV telemetry? If so, I could easily put it into my DNS server, like I already do for ads.

I’d like to continue using my streaming apps without resorting to yet another device. I have an HTPC that runs KODI but I think it’d be a pain to replace all of my streaming apps.

flightyhobler@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 07:44 next collapse

Turn the TV on and keep an eye on the logs. Many of the common blocklist already block that kind of telemetry.

laserlizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 18:49 collapse

A couple I’m aware of:

But like flightyhobler suggested, if you keep an eye on your DNS logs with Pi-hole or managed services like AdGuard DNS and NextDNS you’ll get a better idea of what’s still getting through.

alucard@sopuli.xyz on 22 Jun 20:14 collapse

Thank you for posting this! You saved me a search

atlien51@lemm.ee on 22 Jun 09:04 next collapse

What 4K TV can I buy that doesn’t do this guys help? Or should I stick to monitors???

pool_spray_098@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 11:05 next collapse

I mean… Just don’t hook the TV up to the internet. Don’t join your WiFi network on the TV.

Kind of a simple solution.

winkerjadams@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 11:27 next collapse

Until the cost of a sim card w/service is less than the revenue they generate from it. Which I fear is scarily close.

atlien51@lemm.ee on 22 Jun 11:35 next collapse

No it’s not! I had a goddamn Sony tv and it wouldn’t let me change certain settings unless I connected it to the internet! They try to force your hand!

kipo@lemm.ee on 22 Jun 14:45 next collapse

Do you remember the model number? I would like to research this.

diffusive@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 15:05 collapse

What about connecting to a mobile/theter and change password after you adjusted your settings? 🤷‍♂️

Jimmycakes@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 13:20 next collapse

You can’t activate the warranty without it. Then once it knows it can go online it will constantly harass you.

Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 13:37 next collapse

“You can’t activate the warranty without it” That’s illegal in most of the world

Jimmycakes@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 16:29 collapse

Who said

CalipherJones@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 14:28 collapse

Calm down, it’s a TV.

Jimmycakes@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 16:28 collapse

We’ll see how calm you are when your TV goes live on sky net and kills you in your sleep

outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 18:51 collapse

Doesn’t work anymore. They do dark mesh networks.

MTK@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 12:04 next collapse

I got xiaomi, opened it up and disconnected the Bluetooth / wifi card. Connect it to a linux device and now it is a shitter version of a dumb tv. It’s crazy how smart tvs really really suck at being dumb. But it does work once you get used to some annoying quirks.

Tip: connect a cheap air mouse/keyboard to it as a remote

Manalith@midwest.social on 22 Jun 13:47 next collapse

Sceptre still makes TVs that are just that, no underlying smart OS

atlien51@lemm.ee on 22 Jun 13:59 collapse

TY!

FG_3479@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 19:02 next collapse

You can buy any TV. Just turn off the tracking in the settings and plug in a streaming stick.

Steve@communick.news on 22 Jun 20:47 collapse

Look for Signage Displays. They’re basically TVs with different software.

atlien51@lemm.ee on 22 Jun 21:44 collapse

Never heard of those before. Thanks

SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org on 22 Jun 13:50 next collapse

No, it’s not. It has not connected to the internet.

FlembleFabber@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 14:45 next collapse

Yup same, running a shield

Joelk111@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 14:52 next collapse

My thoughts exactly. My Xbox is spying on me instead.

pocker_machine@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 17:42 collapse

I think you meant - Me Xbox is spying on my instead.

CriticalMiss@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 18:26 next collapse

Some TVs will sneakily connect to open APs to try and phone home. It is nasty but it does happen. You can only be worry free if you yank out the radio module. Some TVs make it easier than others (My LG TV made it as easy as opening the back of the TV and disconnecting, YMMV)

Valmond@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 20:46 collapse

My TV isn’t a “smart” tv.

outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 18:50 collapse

Well, so, about that.

A lot of TV’s will form mesh nets with same brand-or even across brands³-, until they find one that is connected. I’ve even heard reports of one with a sim card¹.

¹in a 'smoke filled room’² ²okay it was a van. A smoke filled van. And she was on some other stuff too.

³OS based i think? So instead of Sony’s seeking Sony’s or samsungs seeking samsungs, its android tvs or roku’s or whatever forming meshes. Don’t quote me on that though

ayyy@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 19:49 collapse

Where can I read about these mesh networks?

outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 19:52 next collapse

Think there was an article in… I think wired a couple years back.

Taleya@aussie.zone on 23 Jun 12:45 collapse

It’s the same thing apple’s Find My runs on. Devices bounce off each other like the fires of gondor

ArsonButCute@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 14:05 next collapse

Spy all you want Agent Hisense of the Roku org, I’ve got you in a black box. Your communications have been cut! You’ll never report back to HQ now!

AA5B@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 14:33 next collapse

Jokes on them: I watch videos on my tablet. There’s no way that’s spying on me, right? Right?

eleitl@lemm.ee on 23 Jun 03:26 collapse

Not if your tablet runs an open source operating system without tracking. Like GrapheneOS or LineageOS, which both can be set up entirely without Google services, or sandboxing apps.

kieron115@startrek.website on 22 Jun 18:02 next collapse

On my Sony Bravia running Android you can just disable the Samba app from running same as you’d disable any app in Android.

FG_3479@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 18:59 next collapse

The built-in OS on smart TVs almost always sucks. The built-in OS on our LG is slower, has less apps, and has less support for HDR and higher resolutions than our Fire stick.

Just don’t use it and instead plug in a Fire stick, turn off its tracking, then sideload apps like BeeTV and HDO Box.

I know Amazon has a bad rep from a privacy standpoint but the Fire stick is super cheap compared to its competition and lets you turn off the tracking in one page of the settings menu.

hootmcgoot@lemm.ee on 22 Jun 21:59 collapse

The article says the TVs still capture input and do recognition from external sources so using an external device is not helping.

Edit: Unless your tv is not connected to the internet.

orb360@lemmy.ca on 23 Jun 01:54 collapse

The TV can still connect via weave, Amazon sidewalk, or other mesh networks through your neighbors doorbell or thermostat or whatever… Even if you never connect it, it could still report. Have to open it up and destroy the antennas.

aceshigh@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 21:05 next collapse

I just don’t own a tv. Getting rid of my entertainment and gaming systems and most of social media was my answer to internal peace. I don’t have streaming either.

DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 21:07 next collapse

I guess I’ll stick with my 2012 Toshiba 55" dumb TV.

IMALlama@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 11:03 collapse

We probably have the same model - the one with the big oval stand. Every once in a while I wish it was OLED and/or higher resolution, but it’s not worth the expensive or all the modern “features” such as these.

bstix@feddit.dk on 22 Jun 21:23 next collapse

Sometimes hundreds of snapshots a second.

That’s a pretty neat FPS for a tv.

beveradb@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 23:04 next collapse

Yeah I’m calling bullshit on that quote, I’d like to see proof of any smart TV having beefy enough hardware to record anything at 100fps+, and even then what would be the point? Nothing played back on the screen will even have a frame rate and 60fps… I’m sure this is a lazy article mistake

EDIT: I take it back, I talked it out with Gemini and understand the logic and realistic implementation now, it’s a dedicated part of the SoC design. Still hate the fact that this is a thing, we just need to spread the word about not connecting your actual TV to the internet at all ever.

g.co/gemini/share/e37d7882d427

Breezy@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 04:58 collapse

If they were recording so much couldnt tv makers be held liable for recording another companies property.

camelbeard@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 05:35 collapse

The article states that’s what the privacy policy sais samsung can sample every 500ms and LG every 10ms. It doesn’t really mean they are, but it’s definitely possible. A very basic way of detecting content is to take a 1000 pixels evenly spaced out over the screen and store the color values. That gives you something you can match against a database. You don’t need to process a 4K screenshot for this.

DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org on 23 Jun 02:09 next collapse

Mine ain’t, I’m using an ancient dumb TV.

Raiderkev@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 05:03 next collapse

I’m not, but I’ve disconnected the Internet from it. It can try all it wants to send the data to the mother ship.

Lifter@discuss.tchncs.de on 23 Jun 05:17 collapse

Soon they may come with cellular capacity. Cars and e-bikes already do.

You gotta Faraday cage it!

Ledericas@lemm.ee on 23 Jun 05:15 next collapse

even better we dont use tv anymore, just a PC.

DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org on 24 Jun 05:54 collapse

Still gonna need a large screen somehow unless you watch all your stuff at the desk or through a laptop.

camelbeard@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 05:16 collapse

99% of what we watch is from streaming (Netflix, YouTube, etc). A dumb tv with a Chromecast probably isn’t any better.

foosedev@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 06:22 next collapse

I watch TV through my computer using Jellyfin. Am I at danger?

MITM0@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 12:37 next collapse

Nope

reddit_sux@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 12:49 collapse

Other than your PC or Mac spying on you, you are in no danger.

acchariya@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 11:15 next collapse

Just create a black hole network at your house and connect all ‘smart’ appliances to that. Block all traffic at the router level. This prevents them trying to connect to open mesh networks and also provides the benefit of cataloging all the traffic

gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works on 23 Jun 12:14 next collapse

No it’s not.

Still got an old Panasonic plasma from 2010 and it’s going strong.

But I am aware of the “wonders” of post-purchase monetization, which is how they’re printing out so many of these cutting edge OLED big screens for surprisingly low initial purchase prices

DarkFuture@lemmy.world on 23 Jun 22:26 collapse

At this point I’m just going to assume George Orwell was a time traveler. He’s been right about everything so far.