M4 Mac Mini Power Button Has New Bottom Location
from LuuTuyen@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 30 Oct 2024 06:36
https://lemmy.world/post/21429542
from LuuTuyen@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 30 Oct 2024 06:36
https://lemmy.world/post/21429542
This is ridiclous
threaded - newest
Wait, WHAT?
They put the powerbutton on the underside?
For fuck sake Apple…
It’s very bad idea to put power button under the bottom, Who think the designer should need to be fired here
Wouldn’t surprise me if it was the same guy who put the charge port on the magic mouse on the bottom.
That at least has a logical excuse if dumb as hell, this has zero reason to be like this
Apple didn’t want to muddy their nice design by including functions.
Frankly you’re lucky it has any ports
Honestly though, they should have added Qi charging to the magic mouse, as well as magnets to you could easily place it on the back of the iMac and have it charging when you leave the computer…
“Our new Mac Mini is so powerful, so extraordinary, you’ll never want to turn it off.” – Tim Apple, probably.
Or they got inspired by the Ericsson Cobra telephone.
Lol, Tim Apple. Who was it that said that? Was it Biden?
No… it was tRump.
Oh good, that’s better.
Uh how often are you having to power on your Mac mini? I think mines been off like twice last year.
Having the power switch away from where I often blindly poke around to plug cables in, sounds like a good choice.
Damn, that is some amazing copium…
They had a well established place for the powerbutton, why change it?
As an IT guy, if I worked with Macs this would be terrible to work with
Well first off if you look at the picture, this is a much smaller device. If the power switch was in the same place as the larger case it would be on the side edge.
Secondly because it’s now moved into a space where it’s not going to be accidentally hit, and requires an intentional effort to press.
That’s great, how many IT guys have to manually go around turning off hundreds of computers at the switch instead of running some automated method across the whole network? Such a rare and unlikely situation that the average home consumer and user of a device such as this really doesn’t ever have to factor in.
As another IT guy at a university, having to manually turn on 30 computers in a classroom for updates or whatever is already a pain in the ass. Wake on LAN is not a reliable solution. Havin to manually flip over every box, then putting them down, and then fixing the cables that got yanked… I’d throw those fuckers in the trash.
The Dell Optiplex 3080 Micro’s form factor is perfectly tiny without compromising user comfort.
You’re a Windows shop? Why don’t you deploy a policy that prevents users from shutting down computers?
Mainly because our students are idiots and will complain if the computer doesn’t turn off. Or worse, take independent action and hold the power button, or actually yank the power cable. Maybe I should just lean into it and convince them that the monitor is the computer.
Jokes aside, how could I implement such a policy? I’ve only found one that hides the power buttons from the start menu, but Windows still responds to ACPI.
Why would they be idiots for wanting to turn these computers off?
If the computers aren’t running something important while not in use, I think they should turn them off as we’re already wasting far too much energy.
I might be missing something, but it sounds like leaving your car running or leaving lights on in your home the whole year.
There are use-cases where a computer should not be turned off by its user for the purpose of remote management. I’m dealing with one just as I’m writing this comment.
There’s an exam in a classroom. In 20 minutes I’ll have to run an ansible script to remove this group’s work, clean up the project directory, and rollback two VMs to the prepared snapshot to get ready for the next group. I’ve put a big-ass banner on the wallpaper telling the students not to shut down the computer, and already half of them are off.
Oh my. Good luck!
Okay in such a case I understand why these machines shouldn’t be turned off.
But, for normal people using their computers for admin/gaming, I still think it’s one of the easy ways of saving a bit of energy.
Most computers go into a deep power saving mode when they aren’t in use. Far less than a light bulb or power brick.
The policy you’re looking for is in Computer Configuration->Policies->Windows Settings->Security Settings->Local Policies->User Rights Assignments->Shut down the system
This policy takes account or group names from your local or domain AD as its variable (like Domain Admins). After it’s successfully applied, only those users or groups will be able to shutdown the machine gracefully.
Create a new GPO or edit an existing one and apply it to the ADUC organizational unit containing the computer objects you need to target.
Thanks, but that’s the same one that I found. It removes the power button from the start menu and disables the
shutdowncommand, but the computer still responds to ACPI and even the keyboard’s power-off button.You can handle those issues with power, setting group policies, and inhibiting action when the power button is pressed (that includes keyboard power buttons). Nothing will stop the user from killing power by holding the physical power button down, except for changing that setting (if available) in the BIOS.
Computer config->Preferences->Control panel settings->Power options
I have never bought an iPhone or a Mac and I agreed at first that this seems an extra step. But you surely wouldn’t have to flip it over? The device will be raised enough it appears that a finger could slide in the gap and hit that button. But maybe I don’t know shit or have slender fingers or something but feels like it could be operated without flipping.
What am I missing?
Still a daft design but yeah…
I have been using a MacBook trough work for 7 years now and I think I actually clicked shutdown once this year too keep the battery at ~80% during my 1 month holiday. Otherwise I maybe reboot it once every month or two to fix some weird homebrew upgrade issues. And that’s it. The thing is just “on” in deep sleep, forever.
If the Mac mini’s behave similarly to the MacBooks, the standby energy usage is so low it’s probably easier to just keep it in on/standby/sleep all the time and just wake it by keyboard or mouse. And because Apple develop their own hardware, standby and sleep actually work reliably. So they probably intend for you to only use that power button for a hard reset. Even shutting it down and moving it, plugging the power back in wil probably start it up again. Just like opening the lid on my shutdown MacBook also boots it before I even touch the power button. Even a keypress or mouseclick will probably turn the damn thing on.
Yes it’s an odd design choice, but in regular day to day use it probably won’t matter. Especially if you realise that its not a windows machine that needs to shutdown or reboot often.
Yeah my current Windows machine only gets rebooted upon updates, but previously I’ve noted needing to do it more frequently. My work laptop I shut down out of habit because they only supplied me with an 8gb ram device.
When I’m forced to move to Win 11 on my personal PC I’ll move to Linux instead.
.
It looks like it’s raised up off the desk by the circular portion in the center. Still annoying to press but a finger probably fits under there.
How often do you accidentally press a power button on a desktop computer? I don’t even do that on my laptop, where the power button is close to the keyboard.
My phone case has a magnet in it (so it mildly sticks to metal surfaces).
I’ve put it on a laptop and accidentally triggered the “lid close” sensor
Is your power button at the back of your pc next to the usb and hdmi ports? The place you dont look when trying to plug in a memory stick by feel.
Of course not, who would put a power button on the back or bottom of the computer? Front, side, or top are the places it goes for almost every computer out there.
You know, now that you say it, I’d bet that’s exactly why they did it. They probably want to fuck over companies that would otherwise have racks of Mac Minis (for clusters, colocated servers, etc.) and force them into Mac Studios or Mac Pros instead.
Nah, if you are racking computers, and they don’t have built in lights out management, you open them up and connect remote triggers to the power button leads, allowing you to remotely start them if they get shut off. I’m sure lots of companies do have Mac farms for Mac and iOS development, but I doubt Apple give a crap one way or another about them.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. The only time I use the power button is when there is an issue which has been like 4 times in 3 years maybe? I think people complaining about the power button location have never worked with macOS and are used to shittier standby in other operating systems.
I’ve never owned any Crapple stuff and never will, but even I can see from the thumbnail that the circular vent is lifting the whole unit off the desk, so slipping your finger under to switch it off is going to be a bit odd the first time, then you’ll instinctively know where the button is.
We’ve been doing it with monitors for decades
On the one hand, I agree. Apple has positioned their power buttons with the assumption that the devices wouldn’t be turned off very often for quite a while now. It was on the backside of the previous mac mini design and also on the backside of the 2013 trashcan mac pro, for example.
That still doesn’t make it less annoying though. We use a lot of macs for work, including aforementioned mac minis and mac pros and we do turn them off regularly because there’s no need for them to use power 24/7. Having to turn them around to find the power button is just stupid. That’s form over function in its finest. But if you’re the type of person who never turns off their computer, obviously it doesn’t really matter.
That’s not to say, that the new mac minis aren’t remarkable machines. The redesign was necessary and is very good in general. It’s a tiny powerhouse. They could’ve just chosen less of afterthought of a power button location.
I feel like it’s such a waste of energy when powering off your computer when you’re not using it is so easy.
The standby drain is negligible and it allows for the device to stay updated and synced.
A lot of negligible things added together can make a lot.
My computers are perfectly up to date by just running the software update manager while using them.
But of course, being veggie, not having kids, biking or walking has a bigger impact than just turning off your computer.
As I have two lovely kids and my work involves a lot of car travel, I can’t blame you for not turning off your computer though 😇
Startup power consumption is a LOT depending on how much needs to open.
For work my i9 laptop spends about 3 minutes chugging down 60-100 watts. An M1 Mac mini draws 5 watts fully powered on and idle. Sleep the machine draws less than a watt. The idle power of the power supply just being connected to the wall is going to use more power than that.
Yes, and if you complain to much they’ll put the power input on the bottom too next year.
Too late: theverge.com/…/apple-new-usb-c-magic-mouse-chargi…
Part of the new Apple power bottom design strategy.
Apple is finally appealing to my interests
Hello.
Why can’t they put the power button on the front where it belongs. It’s already stupid that they put it on the back, putting it on the bottom is downright idiotic. If they don’t want to mess up the oh so important Apple aesthetic just make it an invisible touch button or something. Apple hates usability.
Desktop macs (not tower macs) has had the powerbutton on the back for decades, it’s fine, bottom is shit though…
Back is already bullshit. We have a few trashcan mac pros at work and usually they’re just turned so all the cables stick out towards the user because then you can easily reach the power button. Which makes it look worse than just having a power button in an accessible place aka the front or the top in the first place.
Yeah, I can see that, I was just trying to say that there Mac followed a standard
You realize how ironic your suggestion is right ?
Yeah, make the logo a button or something.
For you to put your nasty fingerprints all over it?? I don’t think so
Every person I have ever met that uses an iMac for the first time naturally assumes that the Apple icon is the power button. Fact that it isn’t the power button is utterly idiotic
Then people would complain there’s no sign of a power button.
On the bottom, in the back…
Well at least now you can actually see the damn black ports on the silver chassis. The M2 Mac Mini has the black ports on the black backside and it’s such a pain in the ass trying to find the USB C ports when I have to connect something.
But yeah, putting the power button on the bottom is peak Apple stupidity.
It looks like you can push the button without lifting the tiny computer.
That would depend heavily on how accessible the computer is and how fat your fingers are. And I can tell you, mine are pretty fat.
We need dimensions from raised bit to not raised bit dammit
I also at first thought it’s not that bad, because it looks like the main part of the computer is “hovering”, because it stands on that round portion. But then I saw that the button is on the backside! Why? That way you have to reach around everything, making it impossible to fit the thing into some smaller space and still use it. If it was on the bottom but in the front you would still have your beloved button-less design but the button would still be pretty accessible.
I… uh… I know it’s going to be an unpopular opinion, but it makes sense. It’s not intended for daily usage - macs wake up on a keyboard or cursor movement. Sitting on the back increases the chance of accidental presses when you are trying to plug something in.
You have a very few specific incidents where you would need to press the power button. 80% of their user base will not use the power button after the first initial press.
Standby pointlessly draws power. I switch off all devices that don’t run on battery for that reason. But I’m not exactly Apple’s target audience anyway since I also consider the price before buying stuff.
They are doing the Nike mistake - they are targeting users that have already purchased a Mac. Data-driven decisions are great, but this would just result in alienating people who are not already customers, or chase people out who are unhappy with this decision, so their next purchase will not be a Mac.
These machines draw 1 watt in sleep. There’s no need to turn them off.
You’re probably using more power shutting down your PC every day than if you just put it in sleep. A minute of chugging away booting and loading all your junk at 100 watts vs 1 watt, and no waiting.
I wonder how many people will just have the thing upside down?
.
That’s genius
A base plate that’s got a spring under it, except for a little nub that pokes the power button.
Terrible if you live in earthquake-prone areas.
Wait. Are we describing a bump stock for your computer?
New business idea!
I had to check if this was an Onion article…
design consistent with the Magic Mouse
Please don't ever turn your computer off, it makes it really hard to spy on you.
Thanks
-Apple
So many people referring to using the button to turn the computer off, but more than 95% of the time, you use the OS to turn a computer off. It’s only when there’s a malfunction you would need to turn it off with a hardware button.
This button is primarily for turning the computer on.
A short press of the power button shuts down almost any computer in existence, why would you use the OS?
It’s still the OS doing it, it’s just reacting to the power button press like any other input device.
Not if you hold the power button. Yeah if you single press a power button, the os can divert that, but long press, the SMC will cut power. Similarly how, pressing and holding the power and the volume down button on a phone, cuts power, even if the OS is hard frozen. Sometimes you just need an emergency exit.
True but that’s extremely rare for people to do.
True but if you can’t do it, you are pretty screwed.
Someone who isn’t a pedant would interpret “using the OS” as going through the start menu, or equivalent.
You are unbelievably pedantic.
I was going to downvote you when I realized
Yeah, that isn’t a important distinction in a discussion about power button locations
He really is pedantic
You raise a good point
Honestly for me it’s muscle memory from the Windows 95 days of “it is now safe to turn off your computer” but I also don’t trust the OS to correctly interpret the ACPI signal sent by the power button 100% of the time. Obviously I’m not an average user, but I could see where an average user might consistently single press the power button to turn off a computer
I assume there will be a power button on the keyboard or mouse. This is just sort of a backup.
You assume everyone uses Apple keyboards
I don’t, but apple does. This is why the touch ID is in the keyboard. To be fair it does come as a unit if you buy the mac new.
Sure but you still need to turn it on though?
?
I’m trying to say that it’s still a useful button to have in an accessible spot because, exactly as you said, it is still used to turn it on.
Not even 0.5% of the time you’re interacting with the computer would you even think about the power button. Maybe in the first week because “lawl it’s on the bottom, Apple so stoopid.” Then you’d just get used to poking under the bottom of the computer and it turns on.
IMO this is infinitely better than on the back like the old Mac mini. My mini is behind my headphone amp, and under a monitor so any time I need to hit the power button it’s a LONG awkward reach.
That’s assuming there’s sufficient space. Even then if you look at the picture, you can see that the power button is on the bottom of the back side of the device. This makes it even harder to reach than if it were simply on the back since you’d need to contort your finger on top of a long awkward reach.
Well like a lover you must reach behind and underneath to turn them on!
…I seriously do not like Apples design language that basically requires me to fondle unseeable parts of the computer to find the power button. Too much risk of spiders back there!
Found the Australian.
I turn off my computer everyday maybe I’m one of those crazy ones. I think they did that so people would be discouraged to turn it off. They want the users to use their new AI feature. My other thinking is marketing if people talk about your product that’s probably a good thing.
Can’t listen in if the computer is turned off!
Don’t worry, there will be suitable USB accessories available for this.
<img alt="" src="https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/97eb943a-aa75-4ac7-8dc7-0d8025fbcffa.jpeg">
Only $299!
“that’s insane!”
gets wallet out
“I can’t believe this!”
gets out card
“unbelievable!”
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/883f04a0-946a-445e-80cb-faffe685e252.png">
And a $199 stand for it, sold separately.
The generic Chinese version that does the same thing: $12
It’s going to Bluetooth since the Chinese version does not want to pay for the licensing fees.
No, it’ll be paired to specifically to your computer and doesn’t work on anyone else’s computer.
Does macOS respond to external keyboard power button presses because if so this could very well be as easy money-making real product
Just like a Raspberry Pi needs a dongle for a power button, except the Mini has one already.
When Think Different turns into differently stupid.
Stupid Differently. Apple’s new slogan.
Dare to be Stupid?
They wanted to put it inside the unit originally
That’s why they put the screen.
This is peak nerd rage over something nobody is going to actually care about.
Seeth and bitch over minor design choices while apple prints money.
Imagine a scenario where a bunch of these are used as a server and to power cycle all of them need to turned off.
You’ve certainly got to have an imagination. Thinking apple is designing a Mac mini for that niche use case and all 12 customers there.
There are few companies in the world who garnish this much attention on nitpicky and inconsequential nerd shit while completely ignoring them designing some absurdly efficient ARM processors on the planet and printing money.
I’m not going to get a mac anytime soon, but at least it would stop my cat from powering down everything spontaneously
I really hope this is one of those tactile hit it from the top and it’ll trigger from the bottom designs. But more likely they just never expect you to use it.
I guess you could flip it around and make the bottom the top 🙃
You’re thinking of a powerbottom, but that’s a totally different concept
Might make the thermal dissipation stop working properly
As long as no vents are blocked, should work fine. Anything with a fan is orientation agnostic.
I thought Apple did away with fans years ago
So they created more vertical space on the case, which would be a perfect spot for a power button - or even more ports… and then didn’t use it.
True to form, if I’m honest.
That aside, I love that they’re getting rid of the idiotic 8GB baseline spec.
After seeing the mouse with ports on the bottom. I’m convinced that there’s a disgruntled designer on their team and this is a cry for help.
As someone who has to use heavy/taped-on little toys to cover the power buttons on my PCs or else my cat invariably opens a shutdown dialog in the middle of something… Thank you.
I don’t know how to windows, but in Linux I just disable the power button on my laptop. Long press still works, this was to avoid accidentally putting the laptop to sleep when accidentally pressing the power button
You can set the power button in Windows to either, do nothing, make the computer sleep, hibernate the computer, shut down, or turn off the display.
I’ll just stick with covering it up. Without fail, if I leave it uncovered my cat will press it. She’s even held it long enough for a forced shutdown twice that I can think of.
That is hilarious.
I spent a while trying to figure out how a cat could possibly long press a power button, even pressing it at all should be a challenge…
Then I remembered that most people use laptops.
I would be impressed if a cat could hold the power button in for several seconds on my tower, you have to depress the button about a 1/4 inch.
My friends cats do this all the time. Their paws are small enough to be able to push the button down easily.
They’re all towers. But the buttons are all pretty shallow with very light actuation force required.
And they all happen to be situated such that the corner which has the button is the corner furthest away from the desk, so when she jumps up onto the PC as a platform to get ready to jump onto the desk, her feet are all grouped up right in that corner.
And you can imagine that if she’s crouched down ready to jump, and I put my arm out to prevent her from jumping from the tower to the desk, that’s a lot of pressure all applied to her little toe beans.
It’s an unfortunate coincidence. But that experience, together with seeing this Mac Mini design, has made me wonder why we tend to put a button with such drastic effects right out in the open like this.
Don’t you have to hold the power button in to force to shut down?
And you can disable it in the options.
At least in Windows.
Yes, but even pushing it will bring up a prompt, which is annoying. And also my cat has held it down long enough to force a shutdown on my media server before, as well as on my wife’s PC during Overwatch.
Apparently there is a button on the keyboard, so you get to buy an Apple keyboard (I guess that is bundled?) and don’t get to use your own keyboard with it.
We went full circle.
Doesn’t look like it, or at least, they’ve not included one before (you just got a power cord), so it’s doubtful they would start including one now. Either that, or they’re about to release a power-button/TouchID dongle specifically to use as a separate power switch.
Like a Windows key?
You can use your own keyboard with it
Sure, but my keyboard doesn’t have a power button.
I think the special button on the keyboard is a fingerprint/lock button. Not sure if the computer supports powering on by pressing any key like the MacBooks, but it certainly will wake from sleep with any key. I don’t think you’re supposed to fully power it down as part of regular use, so they can get by with a less accessible power button
How often do you use the power button to turn on your computer? These days I might use it once a year, at most!
Literally every single time I use it. I only need it to be on when I’m using it, and I don’t use it every day.
How often do you use it, if not every day? Once a week? Once a month?
I use my laptop every day so it makes sense that I don’t use the power button even though it’s right there. I also have a raspberry pi set up to run Retropie that I only turn on once or twice a year when I have an old friend in from out of town. In that case I use the power button every single time but I don’t mind that it’s kind of finicky (I have to turn on several other devices with it as well as a power strip to power them all) because I don’t use it that often.
I could see the new Mac Mini being a bit annoying with its bottom side power button if you’re using it every other day. But honestly I would be more annoyed at the boot time taking 30s than the 2s it takes to reach under the case and power it up. If I had one I would probably just get the keyboard with built in power button and finger print reader though. I use the finger print reader on my laptop all the time because it unlocks my password manager.
Why? This isn’t 1998 anymore.
Well unless you have my shitty ass Thinkpad that can’t reliably go into S0 standby to save it’s life.
I have a desktop and there’s no reason for it to constantly be drawing power. It boots fast enough even with fast boot disabled that it’s not an issue for me.
I leave my work laptop on, but it lives on my desk at work. Not my power bill not my problem. I still have to regularly reboot it because windows can’t update without reboots.
Oh, I had one of theses keyboards!
Pushing the snooze button insta crashed the PC.
Why am I buying a machine that small if I need to make space for two separate keyboards? I can just buy a different thing instead.
Sounds like you should buy a different thing. I bought one, though. None of this keyboard stuff matters to me, since I won’t even be using a keyboard with it
okay, I was gonna say that it’s not that big of a deal because you can just slightly lift it when you want to turn it on (or just slide your finder under it, if they’re small enough) but judging by that photo, it seems like the power button is at the back of the computer? whyyyy??
anyways, im more impressed by the fact that their new shiny mouse who finally uses USB-C still has the charging port at the bottom. im starting to think they think it’s a good design???
I read someone else musing that they must have thought that keeping it plugged in all the time would be bad, so the made it impossible to use the mouse while plugged in. Seems plausible. I suppose it would degrade the battery? Or the cord drag would be bad?
“But it looks bad and could be bad for the battery!”
Every other wireless mouse has it in the front, Apple has no valid reason to leave it at the bottom.
The fact that everyone hasn’t taken on this design trend just shows how stupid it is.
They also take on stupid design trends, like removing the headphone jack.
This one is just several degrees more stupid.
There’s the unsolvable problem - to prevent companies doing stupid things.
And there’s the solvable problem - have enough competition so that companies doing stupid things would become or remain small.
Which is why all the stupidity in computer industry in our days is a result of patent laws and protectionism.
The design forces the user to use it wirelessly. Apple just wants their products to look better, meaning NO CORDS EVER. It’s entirely about aesthetic.
They should have just released a mouse pad that can charge the mouse wirelessly then.
If I worked at Apple, I’d hire you right here, right now.
im surprised they haven’t done this tbh
Apparently Logitech does have this out now, so I wonder if they patented the “concept” and it will be another 20 years before anyone can do it. Assuming that someone else didn’t already do it 20 years ago and that patented already ran out.
Ive seen one at least 10 years ago already. But that didn’t exactly charge the mouse, instead the mouse relied on always being on the pad to work.
That’s not true. It charges very slowly, about 12 hours to charge a completely dead battery, but it does charge
The bigger problem is that it’s expensive af, and since current gen Logitech mice have months of battery life and charge in an hour with the usb cord it’s really pointless.
$7.000
I think Sun made mice that didn’t work without their metallic mouse pad, that had some sort of grid on it.
Apple’s problem is in following:
There are industrial designers, fashion designers, managers and engineers.
Apple doesn’t have industrial designers. Only fashion designers pretending.
In a normal company managers consult designers and engineers back and forth, both figuring out some compromise and also asking the other group whether there is a better way.
Not in Apple. Their designers are clearly superior hierarchically to engineers.
And in the end their products are of inferior quality (for that price).
Apple’s idea of how things should look and work, when expressed in words, is absolutely fine! It’s actually wonderful. And perfectly possible, it’s actually the same goal as with industrial ergonomics.
Except they don’t have the process they need to fulfill that. They only have the PR to pretend.
Their trackpad can and does work via USB so ???
I have one of their trackpads and it works great with Ubuntu over USB but not over Bluetooth for some reason. (It connects, but Ubuntu doesn’t handle it well.)
It’s literally just the same body as the OG Magic Mouse, which had a bay for a pair of AAs underneath. All they did was remove the bay, put a rechargeable battery in there, and a socket to charge it. It takes a couple of minutes to give it 9 hours of juice.
There’s no grand conspiracy.
I’ve said too much they’re coming for me they know they know they know
If that’s the case, then why does the wireless keyboard have the port on the back?
On the battery, they should have been able to do whatever they thought best in the battery management system, in that case.
Simple answer is easiest, that they are obsessed with the “clean” minimalist look and want to abolish every visible port and buttin they can.
Surprised though that the mouse didn’t do the magsafe thing.
I just think it’s weird that people are complaining about the power button and the mouse charging situation, but no one is complaining that this DESKTOP computer does not have any USB-A ports. If you want to use any wired keyboard or a Logitech mouse with the adapter you’ll need to attach a dongle. Crazy.
I’m not an Apple fanboy, nor have I ever purchased one of their products (and I don’t plan to), but I’m actually fine with this because there are lots of USB-C mice and keyboards on the market these days in every price range. At the very most, you might have to buy a different cable because the ones I’ve bought tend to come with USB-C to USB-A cables instead of C to C. But eventually that will change as USB-A is inevitably phased out.
I actually do buy Apple products and I can accept your logic for a laptop because I use a docking station. The point of the Mac Mini is to be the cheap Mac and adding extra cords or dongles just increases the cost and creates a mess behind the machine.
A hub costs $10 if you really need all those ports.
Most people buying these machines don’t, which is why it lacks the ports.
My MacBook has just two USB-C sockets. When I bought it I picked up a couple of A adapters on Amazon for a few quid each. It’s never been an issue. Even less so with a desktop, as you’re able to leave the adapters in all the time.
Yes but we are bitching about trivial things and the lack of USB-A is far worse than the location of the power button on a desktop. I don’t accept the mouse criticism because it’s not required to buy a Magic Mouse. I have a MacBook but I use a Thunderbolt dock so in my use case the usb-c port increases convenience.
USB-C has been out for years. The only issue IMO is that since USB-C negotiates power delivery, it might not be as easy to split out a USB-C port into multiple USB-C ports. Spitting USB-A ports is easy since they only do 5V, and spitting USB-C into multiple USB-A ports should be fine. But if your peripherals all become USB-C, you might find yourself running out of ports fast.
I am not an expert. I probably got something wrong there, but that’s my understanding.
The things that I would plug into a computer are generally peripherals, webcam, printers, scanner, etc. They generally come with USB A plugs. Also nearly every useful USB-C hub is designed for a laptop and has a built in short cord. The new Mac Mini has three Thunderbolt 4 ports which is more than adequate for high speed applications and video. TB4 allows for hubs like the CalDigit Element Hub which has 4 USB-A and 4 Thunderbolt 4 ports but costs $180.
It’s a desktop, so you will obviously need an external monitor. Most of the new monitors these days also work as USB hubs - you just run a USB C cable from the computer to the monitor and you get both display and additional ports.
I personally use a dock that has three Thunderbolt downstream ports with my MacBook and run USB-C to DisplayPort cables connect two screens. If you have one monitor then you can ignore 90% of what I’m griping about. I just think it’s interesting what people notice. The old high end Mac Mini had 4 Thunderbolt USB-C and 2 USB-A. All ports including headphones were on the back. I don’t mind a front audio jack but prefer it on the back since I use it for speakers. This machine is still a major upgrade no matter what. Thunderbolt 4 is bandwidth limited if you want 3 hi-dpi screens or two 4K 60, so Thunderbolt 5 is a big deal on the Mini Pro.
My theory is: free publicity. Just like the fashion industry comes up with ridiculous clothes that no one would ever wear, attention whores will constantly do outrageous things so that people will talk about them. The number of electrons spilled over this stupid mouse port placement over the years is uncountable. But the repeated conversations keep Apple in the public consciousness as a fashionista.
I think it’s more just their minimal design combined with the fact that a normal user will never press the power button. Most people don’t shut down their computers, and if they do, a key on the keyboard turns it on.
The only argument I’ve seen to this being bad is in a server rack environment.
Apple doesn’t want people using the mouse with the cable attached because it would cost them a fortune due to failed charging ports within the warranty period. It’s a wireless mouse. Using it plugged in will fuck it up.
I fix computers and an apple mouse with a bad charge port is just a throwaway.
I can’t wait for Apple to reveal a desk, with a keyboard built-in underneath the back side of it.
That desk would have a hidden monitor as well, like a fucked up pimp my ride car.
24" but 24K pixels.
Glorious 160x150 resolution
It would be an electric standig desk as well, battery powered obviously, and you would need to flip the table top 90 degrees up sideways to recharge the battery every other month.
People would sleep outside to get their hands on it ASAP.
I’m not really trying to come to Apple’s defense here as they don’t need it, but everyone reacting as though this is as bad as or worse than the mouse charging port seems to be ignoring the fact that most computers nowadays don’t need to be manually turned off or on with any level of frequency. People will push this button like once or twice a month I imagine. I don’t see why that’s the end of the world.
What the hell are you talking about? I push the power button every single day on my PC. I’m aware that wake on LAN is a thing, but your average computer user doesn’t utilize that feature. And only a psychopath who doesn’t care about their power bill nor the environment would leave their PC running 24/7.Edit: Thanks for the insight. You were right, I was wrong. My bad.
The power draw of these things when sleeping is negligible. They’re basically off, so there’s no real need to shut them down with any regularity.
I can use my MacBook for a whole day and still have half the battery left. Their power efficiency is genuinely remarkable.
This is correct, but still, fuck apple. What if I just prefer to turn my computer off instead of putting it into sleep mode? And how exactly am I supposed to wake up my computer from sleep if the power button is inaccessible? I know macs can be configured to wake up on keyboard/mouse activity, but that makes them too easy to wake up on accident.
It would be annoying, but to be fair, it’s the Mac Mini, which is small and easy to pick up. I would guess you could just tip the corner up to press the button.
I still think it’s a dumb design. It’s going to confuse everyday users
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I believe this is the intention. I think big companies deliberately put in confusing and bad design to “test the waters” and see if people will still buy their products. It’s the same with the apple mouse charging on the bottom, or why companies keep making their logos uglier with each iteration. It’s a psy-op to condition the masses into accepting worse products without complaining.
You know this thing is tiny, right? It’ll be shockingly easy to pick up and press the button. Even with cables hanging out of it.
I use a 2014 mini with all cables hanging out the back, and it’s really easy to pick up.
Poke your finger under the corner and push up. It doesn’t take a rocket surgen to figure out how they want you to hit this button. You can tell from their promo images that they designed the base to make the computer sit up enough for this.
Why does it matter? It’s just gonna go back to sleep in 30 seconds if you don’t mess with it.
A key on the keyboard turns it on afaik. You don’t need to press the power button.
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This is short-sighted. The amount of extra power the computer draws at a high power state while performing boot-up tasks makes the sleep power draw a better option. Not to mention the sleep power draw happens at off-peak hours where the grid can provide more green power vs. the dirty mid-morning peak power. The break-even point that I’ve calculated across the machines I’ve plugged into my meter is approximately 3-4 days. With a big ol’ “it depends” sticker slapped on top.
Edit: and my lazy methodology doesn’t even account for the extra energy used by the machine throughout the day when it has to cold-start various programs and tasks without any caches.
Double-edit: if you want to go the extra mile you can use the “hibernate” feature of windows after force-enabling it or the “pmset sleepmode {whateverthefuckitis} “ of macOS to split the difference. Or you can take a shower that’s literally 10 seconds shorter because heating shower water for literally only 10 seconds will use more power than any of these things. I strongly implore you to calculate your trip to the grocery store in kilowatt/hrs as well. Optimize where it matters!
Is the 5 watts on an M series Mac?
The Mac mini draws 5 W when on, and 0.5W when sleeping
The average user uses sleep mode and wakes from sleep. Sleep mode should be under 10w, or around $1/mo.
Sleep mode on the mini < 0.5W
Why need Wake on LAN when basically any USB input device can take your computer out of sleep?
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Here you were saying the average user isn’t going to use Wake on LAN, but you expect them to disable USB devices waking their computer?
I have my USB’s disabled as well, but I was talking averages here.
He expects people to turn off their computer when they are done with it, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to expect. Apple is deliberately making it harder to use this computer in a way many people use their computer.
This mac mini on uses less power than your desktop in sleep.
Your desktop also doesn’t use 0 watts of power when off. If you have a gaming computer with a full power supply it’s probably using a couple watts completely off. Vs an M1 Mac mini that uses about 1 or less watts in sleep.
laughs in home lab
Not that I’d buy it but, if I did, that power button might get used twice a year. Likely less since I wouldn’t be able to upgrade or maintenance its hardware.
To be fair, if you have a home lab setup (or even a simple server), you’re not the average computer user.
Thats the thing i have never turned off a mac in my entire life… always sleep and wake
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You seem very pissed off about absolutely nothing. Maybe a Mac just isn’t for you. Chill out and maybe log off for a bit
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You can accurately preach best usecases all you want it falls flat before peopled experience.
I always shutdown my desktop. So did i with all my previous desktops.
Ive always shut down every windows/linux laptop i ever had.
I shut down my android tablet after use.
I owned and mainly used a MacBook pro for 5 years, i never shut it down, i never shutdown my iPhone. It was also ironically the best windows laptop i had owned at that point (in dual boot) and i always shut down when i worked in Windows, just never in macos
Apple did not tell me to do this, it is not difficult to shutdown a mac, no one told me to change what i am used to. It just somehow made the most sense so thats how i used it. And i reverted naturally when i ent back to non apple desktops. I cant explain it better then that.
This does not excuse having a power button on the bottom, thats just ridiculous. Just a hint that what your saying about downsides is irrelevant to how people realistically use it.
Asking in earnest, but why is a power button on the bottom so egregious? I’ve owned various Macbooks over the last decade and I rarely use the power button - and when I do in recent years it’s for TouchID. I leave my MBP open regularly, but have my battery settings set to automatically turn off the monitor and put the computer into sleep mode. I’m just not getting why it’s such a big deal and it’s mostly coming off as “grr apple bad, no like”
I recognize this may be a very autistic answer (i am)
The function of a button is to be pressed, to put functionality on the bottom of a stationary device feels incredibly wrong. Thats really all there is to it.
I can forgive a reset button being on the bottom because ideally they aren’t ever pressed and you definitely don’t want them accidentally pressed. I recognize that for macos a restart is usually a reset troubleshooting step and i would be probably be fine with it the button was renamed with an explanation on its actual usecase scenario.
In any regards i feel like it makes much more sense on the back where the cables go in.
I have nothing against apple besides the general capitalist/consumerism stuff. I hate google and meta much more.
Average Windows user L
I should have considered that I was posting this comment to Lemmy before posting it.
Maybe you push the dedicated power button on your computer’s case everyday but I’m very confident most users of any computer do not. And in that regard I’m including all computers - wearable, handheld, and laptops. We’re well past the age where most users feel the need to fully shutdown and boot their computers everyday, AND there are plenty of software buttons and even some physical keyboard buttons for shutting down a computer so I mean it when I say that I think most computer case’s power buttons go untouched for definitely days and possibly weeks at a time.
You can wake a Mac by clicking the mouse or hitting literally any of the hundred+ buttons on the keyboard.
…also this power button is dumb.
I think it’s more about design. Apple is a company that has set a high standard for design and premium looking/feeling products. I understand that it still works, but I also think it’s not the best design. It’s just not the expectation Apple has set as a brand. Same goes for the mouse that charges on the bottom.
On one hand, I’m happy that Apple is breaking away from some of their earlier values (e.g. recently allowing for more iOS customization) but I do appreciate how well designed their products tend to be. I hope they don’t get sloppy with future products. So yeah, it’s just a silly power button, but it just seems out of character for their brand.
You are just asking for issues not turning off your PC. All the software on your machine is buggy. ALL OF IT. Plus updates require a reboot and we have SSDs so your boot takes like 10 seconds.
Keeping your PC in sleep mode is dumb.
A Mac is not a Windows PC
The last time I turned off my Mac Mini was when we moved. The time before that was when my UPS battery died and I had to swap a new one in.
I do reboot it though, but why would I bother turning it off?
What? I booted my Linux machine sometime last year and my Mac gets rebooted for updates.
Not all of us use Windows, my friend.
You’re much more likely to just restart than to shutdown and need to hit the power button. I don’t think I’ve shutdown my MacBook since I turned it on, or my Linux box either. IMO unless there’s a power outage you’ll never need to hit that button. Still dumb though but i can’t imagine this as a deal breaker.
$599 for this thing is an insane deal.
I do turn off my PC. But most of the time, I do it by pressing the software-based “restart” button in my OS, not by pressing the physical button on the case. Otherwise I normally use hibernate which is also software-bound and can be undone by pressing the space bar. I’m not saying I never press the physical power button or that I never turn off my computer. I’m just saying it’s in no way a big deal to have to lift up a small box sometimes to press a button like one a week
Unfortunately “punish them by not buying it” won’t work for someone as big as them.
Oh no, I’ll have to slightly lift a tiny box on my desk several times a year!
Apple is powered by the copium of their fanbase, so maybe the next model won’t even need a power cable.
It’ll still NEED a power cable, it just won’t COME with one.
YOU won’t need one because you’ll already HAVE one from the last Mac Mini you bought last year.
Here we go again making mountains out of mole hills for Apple.
I am all for calling out Apple for their treatment of workers in ASIA, or their wealth, heck even the closed garden, but this… nah fam I don’t care where the button is.
It’s stupid. Do you need any other reason to laugh at it?
Yes.
Well, that’s sad.
I would argue getting mad over something so trivial as sad.
The genocide being committed in Palestine is something that makes me mad.
The fact that we are happy for our largest companies to outsource work to poorer countries makes me mad.
The fact that corporations seemingly control the world and don’t pay their fair share makes me mad.
Apple making a MacMini with a button on the bottom is irrelevant to me, in the grand scheme of things it’s not even an issue.
No one is genuinely mad. It’s just fun to mock them.
Fun fact: it’s possible to be mad about those things while also thinking a button is stupidly placed. It’s perfectly fine to not care about this at all, but acting like that is just annoying as fuck. Please just abstain.
To each their own I guess, I prefer to just abstain from mockery as I don’t see how it changes anything.
That said I respect your right to write what you want and hope you have a nice rest of your day. 😊
I would absolutely agree if Apple was a person with feelings, but fair enough.
Have a nice day/night
Is it really that stupid though. And is it any worse than flush with the back of the computer so you can never tell if you’ve hit it until you’ve really pressed the button or it bongs?
They should have put the button on the top or front like any other company would do.
To be fair, aren’t those mini PCs meant for HTPCs/home servers? You’re not really supposed to turn them off, and if you really want easy power button access you can just set it upside down. I’d say it’s a good idea if you take into account that it’s aimed at Apple customers who care more about “design” over usability. They truly “think different” over there.
“different” is just another word for “weird”
ThInK DiFfErEnT
Honestly as infrequently as I turn my machines off this really doesn’t bother me. The mouse on the other hand….
Yeah, fuck that mouse, there’s no excuse for that one.
Just put it on its side.
Warranty voided.
Steve Jobs roided
Tried to order pizza but it got Noided
The electrons would flow in the wrong direction.
What is the
<–>port for? HTML? I thought that was port 80 or 443…It’s an Ethernet port. For some reason Apple decided
<···>is the glyph to use for that.I hate their refusal to use standardized symbols
Is there a standardized symbol for Ethernet? The only one on the Wikipedia page for Ethernet is Apple’s.
openclipart.org/image/…/ethernet-connector.png
Is the one I’ve always seen for ages.
Is it standardized?
And honestly, it depicts a modern Ethernet network worse than the Apple icon does
Literally ISO
www.iso.org/obp/ui#iec:grs:60417:5988
And yes, we use switches but the lower network layers abstract that away and a LAN is still like a single bus on the network layer and up.
))<···>((
How do I know that’s not just a segment of a giant token ring
They’ve used that exact same symbol since they first added an Ethernet port to their computers in the early 1990’s. It was one of the first mass-market computers with integrated Ethernet. It literally defined the standard when there was no standards body for such a thing.
The port that put the “i” in the original iMac
i.redd.it/i-quadra-700-v0-j91ogbvkpsqa1.jpg?width…
They’ve used the same symbol since before we standardized on the RJ45 connector, or 10baseT. Back when ethernet was the wild west.
God I miss these abortions. The OG dongles.
lh5.googleusercontent.com/…/kvc2-iElmyi9GVdJ4GREX…
…wikimedia.org/…/1200px-Apple_AAUI_transceiver_an…
Back when men were men, and ethernet cables were an inch thick and needed heavy equipment to use.
Do you mean abominations? lol.
No, we miss abortions in this neighborhood, brother.
Html doesn’t use any port, that’s HTTP
It’s a joke, note the conflation of port (physical connector) and port (one of 65536 virtual TCP/UDP pathways for applications). Also, HTTP(S) (port 80 or 443 by default) is literally “Hypertext Transfer Protocol” so it’s fair to say it was designed to carry HTML.
I only program in HTTPS
This could be a nice little computer if it had good linux support
Asahi linux. AFAIK Linus Tovalds still uses Macs - he has done so at least since the Intel era. I am co nsidering buying one as first a sort of low power gaming console (on MacOs) and eventually as an efficient yet powerfull home server…
Support for M1 and M2 is pretty good now but M3 is not quite there yet and it’ll probably be years before everything works nicely on M4, sadly
Unless your computer has issues, can’t you just power off from within macOS?
And then how do you turn it back on?
How often do you need to actually turn it on? Won’t it sleep? Pretty much should only need to turn it on after moving the thing. You can restart from with in the OS if you need to.
I don’t know if there is a version of Poe’s law for Apple fanboys, but your comment makes me think there should be.
Roflmao
I don’t own a Mac Mini, and never will. I’m not trying to defend Apple.
But I’ll use my work laptop as an example. I have external monitors, so I never open the damn thing except on the rare occasions I need to use the power button. This happens infrequently enough that it gives me a pretty good notion of how often people need the actual power button on a modern computer.
If the button can be reached without turning over the device or even picking it up, as it sure appears, what’s the problem? Other than that it’s an Apple device and people love to hate on Apple devices.
I turn my desktop off every single day, so I need the power button daily, I turn my work laptop off weekly.
those should be reversed
There’s no reason to turn off a Mac Mini. It uses about a watt of power in sleep. The idle draw from the power supply in your desktop probably uses more power than the Mac Mini in sleep.
it’s a shitty design? From a company worth over 3 trillion, that gives them extra shitty points.
Yeah i dunno. Magic mouse? Poor ass design. This? You might have to tilt it up a centimeter or two to hit the power button.
I have a M1 Mac Mini… power button in the rear. I dont turn it off. It shares a screen with an internal KVM with a Windows PC…that also never gets turned off.
My work laptop is more of a PITA since that does get shut down and I need to pull it out of the stand i have it resting in to open the lid most the way to turn it back on if I swap the USB C cable from the Mini. Not the case when docked at work since the dock has a power button on it.
My home laptop has an uptime of almost 30 days at this point, who needs a power button?
I should have clarified that I was referring to “Restart” rather than “Shut Down” because I’m not aware of how frequently people actually “Shut Down” their devices. My intention was to ask: How often would you need to physically press the power button when the functionality of turning the device on and off is accessible through software?
On another note, I think the amount of attention posts like this get is a pretty clear indication of how deep Apple hate truly runs. I’m fine with Apple, more of a Linux person myself, but stuff like this makes me shrug my shoulders. Only Apple could garner this much attention for putting the power button in a weird spot on a tiny desktop that nobody complaining about it would buy even if it was on top of the device.
Yeah, I do agree it’s a fair bit of Apple-bashing. I’ve also learned by reading through other replies in this thread that apparently Apple’s standby mode is very reliable and consumes <1W. It’s apparently also very easy to wake back up.
I can say none of that about my Windows and Linux machines 😅 so that may be where my confusion came from
Guess the Magic Mouse design team was getting bored
Asahi Linux 👀
?
I believe that reply was meant for another comment, not sure how I replied to that one.
Just be thankful they didn’t put the power cord there like they did with the mouse.
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I think they call that Windows.
excellent marketing strategy to get us talking about their stuff that would otherwise get almost completely under our radar.
i mean fuck where the power button of a product ill probably never need is.
This is the epitome of a first-world problem.
exacly. like how is this even news.
Assuming you mount it on the back of something that would probably be a pretty good place.
I use a lot of mini Linux computers and mount them to the back of monitors. I could see this design being perfect for that except it’s way more expensive lol
Wouldn’t a flatter form factor be better for rear mounting?
At least they didn’t put the fucking power port on the bottom.
Oh an Apple thread. More people angry at something they were never going to buy anyway.
More like laughing at what they were not going to buy anyway.
I’m still laughing at the mouse you can’t use while it’s charging
True innovation tho. There was no other mouse you couldn’t use while charging.
Excuse me. Some of us do buy Apple products. And there’s nothing that comes close to the bargain price of the base model, so we laugh at it while buying it too.
I can get an I9 32gb 1Tb mini pc for under 500€. Where is the bargain?
The mac comes with 256 GB though, and 256 > 1
Which one is it.
Gotta get the Apple haters to be their #1 advertisers for free.
Keep it up people. Apple did almost nothing to advertise this computer. You’re the advertisement.
smh Apple playing 5th dimensional chess again making stupid design decisions to get the all important lemmy advertising for free.
Tim apple is truly a genius
I guess I’ll be the exception as someone who does have a macmini because it is the best priced mini pc that can’t be beat, and will likely get the base model for this too for the same reason.
But I still would prefer a power button in the front.
I thought it was satire at first, because the magic mouse has a charging port on the bottom making it unusable when charging
Turns out its not 🤡
Yeah, I used one of those and it made no sense. My Logitech MX Master has it on the front and works perfectly with my work Mac. Sometimes obvious design choices should be followed…
if it didn’t make us angry, and INFLUENCE OTHER BUSINESSES TO DO THE SAME REPUGNANT SHIT, we’d be buying it.
I’m not angry. I’m just confused.
Apple insider are already framing this as not a design flaw but an advantage somehow
it opens up a whole new surface for things. Soon there will be a dozen USB C ports on the bottom and you’ll need to buy special apple right angle cables to access them that they charge $30 per 1m cable.
The have active electronics in them so that if any non-apple right angle connectors are used it limits them to usb 1.0 speeds and 5v 0.5A power delivery. It’s for your safety.
That new surface is very risky, and if you don’t use the right connector it might catch the whole mini on fire!
Trust us. We’re THE design company!
Yeah… I used to sell Apple gear.
When Apple announced the Mighty mouse 20 years ago, everyone was super excited. There wasn’t much info, and we were almost wondering if it was a touch sensitive button on it.
What we got though was a mouse which gave you RSI any time you clicked the right button.
Now, I have a Mac Studio. Every PC has the power button on the top or front. This guy? Nah, lets put it on the back! And the M2 is a professional machine, so lets ship with 8GB ram only… And MAKE IT SHARED VIDEO MEMORY!
And lets stick an ARM chip with no raytracing on it, because thats what people crave
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It is convenient when you don’t hit that button accidentally, only by lifting the thing up.
Seems consistent with the Apple justification of “ape users shouldn’t be physically able to do something stupid, then they won’t blame the computer”.
This is more like a “power button” in that case lol
A power bottom?
Ah too big
Damn, I didn’t notice auto correct killed my pun! OK, you get the point 😀
Now you can slam the top of the machine to boot it up
At least it does mean your cat can never turn off your pc ever again with this
Computer so tiny cat knocks it off the desk instead
I just stuck a Belgium post WW2 MP helmet on mine, pretty effective at keeping my power button safe. Just like how judging frok the dent it kept some Belgian from getting their head caved in by a beer bottle.
Just run it upside down.
Or 3D print a stand to keep it sideways.
Or not buy it
Looking forward to see the 3D prints made to fix this “feature”.
Can you just flip it over and leave it upside down? Cause I certainly would.
Same. Ridiculous design decision and I would either leave it on its side or upside down.
A 3d printed dock with a nub underneath, so you just push the whole thing down and it hits the button.
Go on facebook/craigslist etc, go get some free pianos.
Use key / hammer assembly to fit into custom dock.
Sell on etsy
Profit?!
This is fake right
Yeah, must be The Onion or smth
No, seems to be real.
As long as your default mode is sleep it’d be ok. I touch my PCs power button only when it crashes so horribly that a forced shutdown is the only way out…
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Introducing the new Apple Power Bottom.
<img alt="" src="https://media4.giphy.com/media/S6qkS0ETvel6EZat45/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952cibtzqlsqt4hcb5e9mrk78dltitudbh5agdgppir&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g">
Nice pfp
Optional $200 dock with satisfyingly clicky lever mechanism that is activated from the front.
This is apple we’re talking about. So it’ll be $500 and called the iDock and the fans will call it innovation.
How is this newsworthy… smh
For shitty reasons. You have to sniff a lot of your own farts to think putting it there is a good idea. Its like they don’t think their crap crashes. I just had to do a net install on two this week in our lab.
They clearly want you to let this one running 24/7, or, can you turn it on using the keyboard and that low power BT thing?
That would be no problem, unless your electricity is unreliable and you don’t have a UPS. I rarely use the power button on any of my PCs or Macs, except the one old PC that can’t do S3 sleep anymore (crashes on wake).
Are y’all not using sleep mode? Also the Apple M-cpus are extremely power efficient so leaving it on without sleep mode is a perfectly fine option too.
Power efficient if all your software agrees with it. I use an M3 at work and it dies in a couple hours during sleep.
s0ix is the same shit show on all three major platforms
Hahaha I thought this was the onion and the button was the big fugly thing that covers the whole bottom