X's Objection to the Onion Buying InfoWars Is a Reminder You Do Not Own Your Social Media Accounts (www.404media.co)
from misk@sopuli.xyz to technology@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 19:47
https://sopuli.xyz/post/19565268

On Monday, X filed an objection in The Onion’s bid to buy InfoWars out of bankruptcy. In the objection, Elon Musk’s lawyers argued that X has “superior ownership” of all accounts on X, that it objects to the inclusion of InfoWars and related Twitter accounts in the bankruptcy auction, and that the court should therefore prevent the transfer of them to The Onion. 

The legal basis that X asserts in the filing is not terribly interesting. But what is interesting is that X has decided to involve itself at all, and it highlights that you do not own your followers or your account or anything at all on corporate social media, and it also highlights the fact that Elon Musk’s X is primarily a political project he is using to boost, or stifle, specific viewpoints and help his friends. In the filing, X’s lawyers essentially say—like many other software companies, and, increasingly, device manufacturers as well—that the company’s terms of service grant X’s users a “license” to use the platform but that, ultimately, X owns all accounts on the social network and can do anything that it wants with them.

“Few bankruptcy courts have addressed the issue of ownership of social media accounts, and those courts that have were focused on whether an individual or the individual’s employer owned an account used for business purposes—not whether the social media company had a superior right of ownership over either the individual or the corporation,” Musk’s lawyers write. 

The case Musk’s lawyers are referencing here is Vital Pharm’s bankruptcy case, in which a supplement company filed for bankruptcy and the court decided that the Twitter and Instagram accounts @BangEnergyCEO, which were primarily used by its CEO Jack Owoc to promote the brand, were owned by the company, not Owoc. The court determined that the accounts were therefore part of the bankruptcy and could not be kept by Owoc.

Except in exceedingly rare circumstances like the Vital Pharm case, the transfer of social media accounts in bankruptcy from one company to another has been routine. When VICE was sold out of bankruptcy, its new owners, Fortress Investment Group, got all of VICE’s social media accounts and YouTube pages. X, Google, Meta, etc did not object to this transfer because this sort of thing happens constantly and is not controversial. (It should be noted that social media companies regularly do try to prevent the sale of social media accounts on the black market. But they do not usually attempt to block the sale of them as part of the sale of companies or in bankruptcy.)

But in this InfoWars case, X has decided to inject itself into the bankruptcy proceedings. Jones has signaled that Musk has done this in order to help him, and his tweet about it has gone incredibly viral. On a stream of his show after the filing, Jones called this “a major breaking Monday evening news alert that deals with the First Amendment and the people’s fight to reclaim our country from the clutches of the globalists.”

"Elon Musk X Corp entered the case with a lawsuit within it to defend the right of X to not have private handles of people like Alex Jones stripped away. It violates the 13th Amendment against slavery, there are many issues. Today they filed a major brief in the case,” Jones said. “Elon Musk’s X comes to Alex Jones’ defense against democrat attempts to steal Jones’ X identity.”

Musk famously unbanned Jones, then appeared on the same Twitter Spaces broadcast with him. Musk has also tweeted occasionally that he believes The Onion is not funny. Jones, meanwhile, has been ranting and raving about some sort of conspiracy that he believes led a judge via the Deep State to sell InfoWars to The Onion at auction. 

X calls itself “the sole owner” of X accounts, and states that it “does not consent” to the sale of the InfoWars accounts, as doing so would “undermine X Corp.’s rightful ownership of the property it licenses to Free Speech Systems [InfoWars], Jones, or any other account holder on the X platform.” Again, X accounts are transferred in bankruptcy all the time with no drama and with no objection from X.

“Looming over the framework [in the Vital Pharm case] was the undeniable reality that social media companies, like X Corp., are the only parties that have truly exclusive control over users’ accounts,” the lawyers write. “X CORP. OWNS THE X ACCOUNTS.”

That a corporate social media company says it owns the social media accounts on its service is probably not surprising. Meta, Twitter, Google, LinkedIn, and ByteDance have run up astronomical valuations by more or getting people to fill their platforms with content for free, and have created and destroyed countless businesses, business models, and industries with their constantly-shifting algorithms and monetization strategies. But to see this fact outlined in such stark terms in a court document makes clear that, for human beings to seize any sort of control over their online lives, we must move toward decentralized, portable forms of social media and must move back toward creating and owning our own platforms and websites.

#technology

threaded - newest

conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works on 26 Nov 2024 20:03 next collapse

It violates the 13th Amendment against slavery

Uh?

Atelopus-zeteki@fedia.io on 26 Nov 2024 20:35 collapse

Just hollering bullshit, because in the past if he did that louder and longer it worked for jones.

Buffalox@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 20:04 next collapse

What the actual fuck?! Just that first paragraph!

On Monday, X filed an objection in The Onion’s bid to buy InfoWars out of bankruptcy. In the objection, Elon Musk’s lawyers argued that X has “superior ownership” of all accounts on X, that it objects to the inclusion of InfoWars and related Twitter accounts in the bankruptcy auction, and that the court should therefore prevent the transfer of them to The Onion.

So they argue that accounts are non transferable, even by court order!!
This is complete bullshit, and should not be taken seriously at all as a legal argument, obviously X has the right to close the accounts afterwards, if they are operated against the terms X has decided. But ONLY if that. It should not be allowed to do it arbitrarily.

ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org on 26 Nov 2024 20:26 next collapse

Not non-transferrable, as that would prevent Elon from claiming @america or the transfer of @POTUS.

hddsx@lemmy.ca on 26 Nov 2024 21:04 next collapse

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

tb_@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 21:43 collapse

Or @X

Or a whole bunch of usernames, for that matter: Elon Musk’s X Has Started Selling Off Old Twitter Handles For Upwards Of $50,000

200ok@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 02:59 collapse

Hah!!

Ooh, it’s behind a paywall. Do you mind sharing the list please? Gets popcorn

iamanurd@midwest.social on 27 Nov 04:38 collapse
Prandom_returns@lemm.ee on 26 Nov 2024 20:42 next collapse

You are naive, if you really think that the law still applies to people in Trump’s near proximity.

kn0wmad1c@programming.dev on 26 Nov 2024 21:39 next collapse

I think the entire reason they’re doing this is to set the precedent that they can defy court orders.

independantiste@sh.itjust.works on 26 Nov 2024 21:56 collapse

What the onion could do in such case that elon does not want to give the accounts as part of the deal is to send a letter threatening legal action if they do not take down the accounts for infringing on their InfoWars trademark

Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 26 Nov 2024 23:28 collapse

Oh I like this

AlternateRoute@lemmy.ca on 26 Nov 2024 20:06 next collapse

Who owns your outlook.com account? Who owns your gmail.com account? I will give you a guess it is the company that owns the domain to the right of the @.

TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org on 26 Nov 2024 20:41 next collapse

I'm not sure why everyone is shocked. This has been the case since the beginning of the public Internet. It's their servers, their infrastructure, and everyone should have been completely aware that we are giving them content for free. I was never under any other impression, even back when I was using Usenet and IRC. That's why I don't post anything on social media I truly care about retaining ownership over.

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 21:06 collapse

Hey, what’s your social security number, real quick! Don’t even think about it! Just post it!

bilb@lem.monster on 26 Nov 2024 23:23 collapse

632-44-8625!

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 2024 01:08 collapse

I tried googling that to see if there was a hidden pop culture reference that flew over my head. Kind of like asking for a phone number and replying “867-5309”

Google results first listed a calculator, which solved the equation. -8037 btw.

The next page of results were auto detailing body shops in my area. Which I have to assume are personalized google results, and not an intended point of the joke on your end.

So in the end, I realized we have two different joke phone numbers. Anything with a 555 prefix, is always fake. AND 867-5309 is also always a joke answer.

But we don’t have ANY joke social security numbers!

bilb@lem.monster on 27 Nov 2024 01:31 next collapse

I recommend we use that random one I posted which is sure to be assigned to someone.

TachyonTele@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 05:05 collapse

Better than to say sorry after, than to ask permission first.

beejjorgensen@lemmy.sdf.org on 27 Nov 05:56 collapse

The closest we have to 555 is any social security number that starts with 9. Kinda dull. The closest one we have to a joke is probably 078-05-1120.

bookmeat@lemmynsfw.com on 26 Nov 2024 22:25 collapse

But you own the goodwill and trademarks associated with what’s on the left of it.

Similarly, when people sell a business they sell the clients. It stands to reason that the followers can be like clients and should be transferred in the same way as in normal business sales.

AlternateRoute@lemmy.ca on 27 Nov 2024 00:14 collapse

X can’t reuse the inforwars account due to the trademark, but they are also not required to transfer ownership or continue providing access to that account.

bookmeat@lemmynsfw.com on 27 Nov 2024 01:25 collapse

True, but I think it’s pretty clear what they’re trying to actually do; to keep control of the account and use it.

theluddite@lemmy.ml on 26 Nov 2024 20:08 next collapse

I don’t disagree but I’d say that there’s a more important lesson here: The concept of ownership is mediated by a legal system that gives the wealthy a special pass. Rich people can pay lawyers to make up concepts like “superior ownership” 'til the cows come home, and any subsequent precedent costs $600/hr to even access. None of us should feel secure under this system about our online lives or our fucking houses, even if we “own” them.

WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 21:44 next collapse

Concepts like “fair”, “balanced”, and “democracy” can not exist under Capitalism, because money is speech and power, and the small elite who control thousands/millions more capital than average control everything thousands/millions times more than average.

ricecake@sh.itjust.works on 26 Nov 2024 23:35 collapse

I entirely agree with your main point.

Aside from that, the concept of “superior ownership” isn’t something made up any time recently. It’s the notion that there are different types of ownership and some of them take priority over others.
For example, if I have a watch, A steals the watch from me and sells it to you, and then B steals the watch from you, you, me and B all have a claim to it.
B possesses the watch so you need to prove they stole it to show you have a superior claim to ownership. You can show that you bought the watch fair and square from A, which means it looks like your claim is valid, but because it was stolen from me in the first place I have the best claim.

It’s not a rich person making up a new legal principle, it’s a rich person trying to use their money and lawyers to buy an outcome because they don’t like one of the parties.

theluddite@lemmy.ml on 27 Nov 14:16 collapse

My point wasn’t that in this specific case they made up “superior ownership,” but rather that it was made up as a legal concept at some point in the past, probably by lawyers working for rich people, and it’ll probably never matter to you and me. Like so many legal concepts, it is reasonable, but only rich people can really access it, and, at this point, there are so many of them that they will always have one ready to go when it suits them.

ricecake@sh.itjust.works on 27 Nov 19:03 collapse

I disagree on this specific one. It’s not an incredibly esoteric concept and is part of every legal dispute involving ownership of anything. It’s legalese for “they don’t own it, I own it”.

digdilem@lemmy.ml on 26 Nov 2024 20:19 next collapse

If this was just about the X/Twitter accounts, then X could just suspend them.

penquin@lemm.ee on 26 Nov 2024 20:29 next collapse

A country where money gives you power over even the justice system, is just a joke of country and will eventually collapse on itself.

Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 21:05 next collapse

No it won’t. It will prop itself up on labor exploited from the working class.

It’s the middle class that will collapse. Eventually everybody will be poor. Nobody but the rich will own land. It’ll all be one big exploitation of it’s people. Just as russia has done for 1000 years before us.

That’s the goal, didn’t you know? An entire nation of labor slaves without power, and an entire class of elite without empathy.

penquin@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 2024 00:34 collapse

And that’s how it’ll collapse. People will burn it to the fucking ground.

r00ty@kbin.life on 26 Nov 2024 21:35 collapse

Now see, I don't like it but the simplest thing would be for musk to ban the account right now.

He's not circumventing anything then. Ownership of the account was transferred, that twitter, a private entity chose to ban it is their business.

It's not worth arguing about. The website and ip is the juicy thing, being able to make satirical info wars programming and products is where it is at. Maybe, maybe there would be a case if musk allowed Jones to make a new account with the same name or otherwise handed it to him.

penquin@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 2024 00:35 collapse

Would be hilarious if the onion just told Musk to shove that account up his ass and take took it to bluesky

MCasq_qsaCJ_234@lemmy.zip on 27 Nov 12:45 collapse

Bluesky could make a good advertisement by saying that its ID is more effective than Twitter/X ID

Zerlyna@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 20:30 next collapse

Slavery? WTF?

KillerTofu@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 21:35 collapse

The children yearn for the emerald mines.

RandomStickman@fedia.io on 26 Nov 2024 20:37 next collapse

Ok, Elon can have the account. The rest of the stuff goes to The Onion. lol

AbidanYre@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 20:41 collapse

And Jones is legally banned from using Twitter/X.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 26 Nov 2024 20:51 next collapse

God damn... modern contract law is a fucking giga chad of the jurisprudence.

ToS is the GOAT, anything goes if ToS says it, plebs!

9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 20:57 next collapse

I own my own social media accounts if I run my own instances.

If I use third party social media, then I do not own any account I create on it.

osugi_sakae@midwest.social on 26 Nov 2024 21:00 next collapse

Am I correct in seeing this as the company is claiming that courts of law cannot require them to transfer control of an account from one user to a different user? This despite the fact that doing so has been fairly standard practice for years now?

Personally, I think the lawyers for The Site Previously Known As Twitter have a very weak argument. However, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, so there’s also that.

nao@sh.itjust.works on 26 Nov 2024 21:09 next collapse

Ok did any twitter user believe they owned their account?

vodkasolution@feddit.it on 26 Nov 2024 21:21 next collapse

If he was an US citizen, I would almost panic - sorry guys, love your country but…

Rentlar@lemmy.ca on 26 Nov 2024 21:26 next collapse

Ok. The accounts can be withheld, suspended or whatever.

The Onion is therefore entitled to due compensation from X Corp., as this was considered to be included in the bid. X can have that NFT for just 47 billion dollars, what a deal! /s

r00ty@kbin.life on 26 Nov 2024 21:30 collapse

No. If valve cancel your steam account, you lose your games and they owe you a big fat zero.

Same goes for all accounts with assets attached.

Sad to say, but in this case it is musk's platform and his rules.

If he wants to go home and take his ball too. Tough luck.

Doesn't seem right, but it is legal and already happened on multiple platforms multiple times.

Rentlar@lemmy.ca on 26 Nov 2024 21:38 next collapse

Perhaps, but it all depends on the judge’s decision whether X corp’s argument is completely bullshit or not.

For your Valve example, in the Subscriber Agreement you can terminate the agreement, or Valve can terminate it for a violation of the Agreement rules, with no refunds. For a termination without a valid reason, “no refunds” does not necessarily apply. I’m not saying it would be hard for Valve to come up with a bullshit reason to cancel anyone’s account on a whim or to change the terms so that they get broken easily, but it’s not automatic and courts can assign value to a specific license you have access to, based on the jurisdiction, in particular in places like Quebec, Australia, and the EU.

9C. Termination by Valve

Valve may restrict or cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time in the event that (a) Valve ceases providing such Subscriptions to similarly situated Subscribers generally, or (b) you breach any terms of this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use). In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is restricted or terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including of any Subscription fees or of any unused funds in your Steam Wallet, will be granted.

Addendum: I wasn’t totally serious with the second paragraph, nothing may stop X from banning The Onion/Infowars or whatever after the transfer is complete. But trying to disrupt the transfer itself over it seems a little ridiculous.

r00ty@kbin.life on 26 Nov 2024 21:47 collapse

And twitter / x most likely have a similar rule. And musk could have achieved similar by just banning the account.

There's no reason to give it to Jones. He doesn't own any of the applicable ip any more. Maybe there's an argument if he tried that.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 04:14 collapse

It’s just a matter of time before Jones gets it back. You’re still living in a world where these creatures might have been served justice. The jig is up. Jones will be restored and the parents of the children of who were slain will get nothing, which is the natural order for americans.

dan@upvote.au on 27 Nov 03:03 collapse

If valve cancel your steam account, you lose your games and they owe you a big fat zero.

That really depends on how good the consumer protection laws are in your jurisdiction. Not every country is as bad as the USA in terms of consumer protection… Some countries have laws that priorize people over corporations.

TachyonTele@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 05:02 collapse

Im curious which countries require Steam reimburse you if they cancel your account. That feels like something that’d be talked about a lot more.

Edit: the answer provided is None.

dragonfucker@lemmy.nz on 27 Nov 06:13 next collapse

Not that example specifically, but Steam got in big trouble with Australia’s consumer commission for their refund policy. You know how Steam refunds are so permissive these days? It’s because in 2016, Valve had to pay 3 million dollars to Australia for lying to customers about the refund policy and were forced to improve their game. One country can make a big difference to your consumer rights, even if you don’t live there.

[deleted] on 27 Nov 06:14 next collapse

.

TachyonTele@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 20:49 collapse

None of that pertains to steam removing/banning your account and you getting reimbursed for it.

dan@upvote.au on 27 Nov 06:34 collapse

In Australia at least, if you buy a product or service but can’t use it in the intended way, that’s considered a “major failure” and they’d need to provide a refund. Not sure how well it’d apply for games you’ve had for a very long time though.

TachyonTele@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 06:45 collapse

If steam cancels your account, what reimbursement do they give you?

dan@upvote.au on 27 Nov 07:50 collapse

Not sure - don’t think I know anyone in Australia who has had their Steam account cancelled.

TachyonTele@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 20:46 collapse

So what you claimed was nonsense with no truth to it. Thanks… 👍

dan@upvote.au on 27 Nov 21:01 collapse

That’s like saying “You haven’t been stabbed, so you saying people go to jail for getting stabbed is noncense with no truth to it”… Just because I haven’t had it happen to me doesn’t mean I don’t know what the law is. Companies that operate in Australia have to comply with Australian law.

TachyonTele@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 21:08 collapse

What? You have gone from saying that there are countries that will reimburse you for what you have on your account when they cancel the account, to idk but AU we have something that’s actually nothing like that, to if you get stabbed you have to comply with Australian law.

Your just making shit up as you go along.
All I wanted to know was an example of your first claim.

Badeendje@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 21:36 next collapse

I wonder how this will play out.

BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 21:54 next collapse

But then musk would be violating the lease with free speech systems because Jones is no longer the one who owns free speech systems.

independantiste@sh.itjust.works on 26 Nov 2024 21:59 next collapse

I mean… Yeah they can always not give out the accounts, but they will still need to disable them if they don’t want to infringe the Infowars trademark that would belong to The Onion

NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 22:03 next collapse

Okay… so lets say Musk wins, and the infowars handle isn’t transferred.

The Onion should then file an impersonation complaint with X and have the handle handed to them. I would assume in the auction the onion purchased the rights to the trademark InfoWars.

spacecadet@lemm.ee on 26 Nov 2024 23:10 next collapse

This would be interesting considering people like Elon want to get rid of Section 230. He could be shooting himself in his left foot to prevent himself from shooting himself in his right foot.

locuester@lemmy.zip on 27 Nov 06:41 next collapse

X could just hide/delete/forbid the account entirely to avoid this. It’s not impersonation if it doesn’t exist.

Good_morning@lemmynsfw.com on 27 Nov 14:02 collapse

Should, but musk is trying to help Alex Jones in a weird way and be a nuisance to the onion. I hope it blows up in his face

Rekorse@sh.itjust.works on 27 Nov 14:06 collapse

They likely just wouldnt post on x at all.

MimicJar@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 22:14 next collapse

Classic not a lawyer but the terms of service say,

We give you a personal, worldwide, royalty-free, non-assignable and non-exclusive license to use the software provided to you as part of the Services. This license cannot be assigned, gifted, sold, shared or transferred in any other manner to any other individual or entity without X’s express written consent.

(Emphasis mine)

Twitter accounts are commonly shared by many individuals and I guarantee they do so without written consent. Does that invalidate/bring into question the whole clause or just the sharing part?

JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz on 26 Nov 2024 22:26 next collapse

So Musk wants to take it to court that no accounts on X can be run by a team, only the person who made them, and they can’t be transferred.

I wonder who owns @/POTUS then, some random whitehouse intern from almost two decades ago? What about @/Tesla and @/SpaceX, has he received written permission for them :) ?

MimicJar@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 22:37 collapse

My understanding is that it’s the transfer clause he is focusing on. It’s just not clear to me that violating one part of the clause doesn’t bring the rest into question.

In the cases of POTUS, Tesla, SpaceX, etc it is certainly possible written permission has been given (although I agree not likely).

Grimy@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 2024 00:37 next collapse

I don’t see why it would invalidate anything. Companies can enforce their terms at their own discretion. It’s not like a trademark where they lose it if they don’t use it.

booly@sh.itjust.works on 27 Nov 2024 01:43 collapse

Contracts can be modified by the bankruptcy code.

In 11 U.S.C. § 365(f)(1):

Except as provided in subsections (b) and © of this section, notwithstanding a provision in an executory contract or unexpired lease of the debtor, or in applicable law, that prohibits, restricts, or conditions the assignment of such contract or lease, the trustee may assign such contract or lease under paragraph (2) of this subsection.

So any continuing contract in which there are obligations on both sides, such as a premium account where the accountholder pays a fee and the service provider continues providing access to the service, is assignable in a bankruptcy, even if the contract itself says it’s not assignable.

There’s a few other bankruptcy principles at play, but that’s the main one that jumps out at me.

There’s also a classic case where the bankruptcy trustee can sell a bankruptcy debtor’s Pittsburgh Steelers season tickets, including the right to renew for the next year on the same terms as all other season tickets holders. Just because the season tickets are revocable by contract doesn’t mean that the team has the right to exercise that revocation against a bankruptcy debtor just because they don’t like what’s happening in the bankruptcy.

Jarix@lemmy.world on 26 Nov 2024 22:53 next collapse

So if x has superior ownership, then they should be subject to every illegal thing ever posted on X.

Including CSAM posts and other illegal things.

So whos the pedo now Elon?

7toed@midwest.social on 26 Nov 2024 23:51 next collapse

So whos the pedo now Elon?

I won’t ever get over him larping as a child and tweeting as if he’d want himself as a father.

Mirshe@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 2024 01:16 collapse

And all because none of his actual children give two shits about Apartheid Daddy.

Maven@lemmy.zip on 27 Nov 2024 00:17 next collapse

Hilariously, trump wants to remove the law that says you can’t hold platforms legally at fault for their users. Once that gets repealed, this is a genuine argument. (As far as I know… I’m not a lawyer but that’s my interpretation)

takeda@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 06:15 collapse

This should be removed (maybe amended so it no longer would apply to corporations, it was originally intended to community sites like forums, Usenet etc).

Though if they would make this change, it likely will make it even worse.

unphazed@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 03:02 next collapse

Same as the Companies are People bs. They’re people when it comes to bribing politicians, but they have money and are not responsible for evils committed by their companies.

Jarix@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 03:09 collapse

And are essentially immortal entities

kureta@lemmy.ml on 27 Nov 04:30 collapse

  • Corporations are people ❌
  • Corporations are Gods ✅
LunarLoony@lemmy.sdf.org on 27 Nov 06:47 collapse

Aquinas spoke of that mythical city on the hill…

anomnom@sh.itjust.works on 27 Nov 06:04 next collapse

Especially if the claim ownership of the Infowars account. They should be added to the debtors for the Sandy Hook families.

invalid_name@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 06:28 next collapse

You think it ever wasn’t him?

TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 07:54 collapse

The judge should say, fine if you want legal precedent that you are the superior owner I’ll give it to you, case closed. Now you will have to respond for every singles illegal thing posted on there since you are the owner.

bilb@lem.monster on 26 Nov 2024 23:36 next collapse

I own SOME of my accounts. I self host lemmy, email, and a friendica instance.

Sorry to bring it up yet again, but I wonder how this works on Bluesky. On Bluesky, I host my own PDS and use my own domain as my handle. I don’t see how bsky could try to claim any ownership of either.

CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 2024 01:07 collapse

Wait, what’s a PDS?

bilb@lem.monster on 27 Nov 2024 01:34 collapse

“Personal Data Server.”

github.com/bluesky-social/pds

CeeBee_Eh@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 02:53 collapse

Ah, nice. Thanks

JWBananas@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 2024 00:18 next collapse

Fine, let them keep it. Just sue them for trademark infringement if they ever use it.

jagged_circle@feddit.nl on 27 Nov 2024 00:20 next collapse

Bitch I run my own mastodon instance. I definitely own my social media accounts

supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz on 27 Nov 19:30 collapse

lol why though?

Why not just blindly put your trust in the investors behind Bluesky not to screw you over? Every case of that kind of thing happening is in the past and I am looking to the future which looks bright and blue!

sturmblast@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 2024 01:09 next collapse

X is a cesspool.

unphazed@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 03:05 collapse

Look around man. Half the country drank lead ladened koolaid and became drooling, hate-filled sycophants. The other half fought for keeping people safe and still 15million of that portion were apathetic to the cause.

sturmblast@lemmy.world on 27 Dec 00:04 collapse

What does that have to do with what I said?

asteriskeverything@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 03:43 next collapse

I’m still reading but ffs- I click ONE x.con source and my in app browser makes me hit back 5 times just to get to lemmy again nothing else pulls that shit but maybe daily news level

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 07:44 collapse

That’s why you middle-click all off-site links.

daellat@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 08:20 collapse

They said in-app browser I imagine they’re on mobile

some_designer_dude@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 13:39 collapse

Long press, open in background.

piskertariot@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 04:53 next collapse

You own what is on your machine, that you save locally.

Some companies believe they control the internet, but they do not. They control what is on the computers they own, that they save locally. Sometimes that is information that users have shared. That is their choice.

UmeU@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 05:10 collapse

Unless you use Mac or windows

invalid_name@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 06:27 collapse

your machine

Thats what they said.

FiskFisk33@startrek.website on 27 Nov 05:21 next collapse

if they own the accounts, that means they arent protected by section 230 and is liable for every illegal thing that is posted?

invalid_name@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 06:27 collapse

No but see also not that.

NeoToasty@kbin.melroy.org on 27 Nov 06:23 next collapse

I'd be okay not owning my social media account if these parasites would stop thinking they're entitled to my privacy and sensitive information.

Passerby6497@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 06:35 next collapse

I can’t wait for the Texas and Connecticut families to file a motion to make X liable for the $1.5b too, since they own the Infowars account it’s their responsibility.

Rakonat@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 06:50 next collapse

Please let this happen. It’d be fucking hilarious to watch the rat try to squirm out of xitter losing him even more money.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 07:26 collapse

Can’t have a safe harbor and ownership.

spiritsong@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 08:08 collapse

This I don’t trust the US legal system but it’ll be very funny if the Sandy Hook parents win.

zephorah@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 06:44 next collapse

Xitter is basically state media at this point. MAGA media, if you prefer, as run by the preferences of President Musk.

Freefall@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 07:05 next collapse

The corporate courts are on their way, chummer.

shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 09:33 next collapse

Why does this surprise anyone? Doesn’t anyone know what terms of service are? This place is the same way.

Mubelotix@jlai.lu on 27 Nov 13:53 collapse

The fediverse is very different. Every valuable account will have its own instance and abide by its own rules

interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml on 27 Nov 10:43 next collapse

This is grounds for the immediate dismantling of twitter.

BradleyUffner@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 11:03 collapse

Musk too

interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml on 28 Nov 00:17 collapse

In his case it’s just disposal, no salvageable parts

BradleyUffner@lemmy.world on 28 Nov 01:40 collapse

Still a net improvement for humanity.

MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml on 27 Nov 10:52 next collapse

To make sense of this: Infowars is a social media company (uses X account as platform)?

DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca on 27 Nov 12:57 collapse

Infowars was/is a media company, Alex Jones’ show was on TV and online.
They are known for peddling and creating far right conspiracy theories, and because of this were often banned from social media websites for breaking their Terms of Service.
Because Elon is a right-wing conspiracy theorist who likes Alex Jones, he unbanned infowars from Twitter when he(Elon) bought it.

Inforwars was recently sued into the ground because of the claims he made to his audience about the victims of school shootings and their families. Because of this, he was ordered to have his assets liquidated.
The Onion (a satirical news/comedy website) won the bid for Inforwars and its assets, and Elon isn’t a fan of this, so he’s trying to not allow The Onion access to the Inforwars Twitter account.

Blackmist@feddit.uk on 27 Nov 10:56 next collapse

If he wanted to save a right wing shitbird’s stuff so badly, why didn’t he buy it?

hydrospanner@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 13:18 collapse

My guess?

He’s far less concerned about the specifics of this situation and far more concerned about what happens if/when his Twitter is host to something horrible enough that people are calling for his head, and/or he is wanting to sell…or being pressured to sell Twitter…but there’s something specific he wants to stipulate in that transaction that a precedent set here might fuck up.

octopus_ink@lemmy.ml on 27 Nov 14:50 collapse

I think he’s going entirely the wrong way then.

If he owns all accounts he’s responsible for all accounts, right?

He should have just let it go.

96VXb9ktTjFnRi@feddit.nl on 27 Nov 12:26 next collapse

How will Musk manage all the conflicts of interest, between all of his companies and assets and his role in government. His business interests are so large and diverse that it literally can’t be done, can it? Already got the sense that the US is going down the path of oligarchic kleptocracy. But how shameless and out in the open will it be?

Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 12:32 next collapse

Simple: he doesn’t.

In his mind the government needs to be run like a business, and in business only profit matters, therefore there is no conflict of interest. Also it is becoming clear that laws are completely irrelevant now and no matter the accusation, they will put YOU in jail because they got the power.

iAvicenna@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 12:41 next collapse

oligarchic kleptocracy cryptocracy

FFY

brucethemoose@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 13:47 next collapse

That’s the strange thing, it’s completely open with tons of news outlets constantly calling it out, not an “taboo secret” like of like old facist governments. And in all liklihood, it will stay that way.

The filter bubble and American apathy is just that powerful, I guess?

96VXb9ktTjFnRi@feddit.nl on 28 Nov 13:27 collapse

I just finished reading Amusing Ourselves to Death. In it Neil Postman explains the apathy you mention in a way that I found very convincing. Although the book is from 1985 it’s as relevant as ever, perhaps even more so given our current media climate. It’s worth a read, though I would advise reading Brave New World in advance.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 15:23 next collapse

CEO must be the easiest job in the world because so many of those fuckers have more than one.

fluxion@lemmy.world on 28 Nov 15:03 collapse

And they have so much time to shitpost on Xitter

humanspiral@lemmy.ca on 27 Nov 16:23 collapse

A very big conflict of interest is tariffs on Canada/Mexico auto sectors that would significantly diminish his Tesla competition.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 28 Nov 15:36 collapse

He helped Trump get elected, Trump owes him favours now. Game 101

Also, everybody was mocking him about "losing money" on twatter... who is laughing now, idiots.

Just because you are too stupid to understand the play, does no make you smart ;)

humanspiral@lemmy.ca on 28 Nov 15:56 collapse

The big 3 automakers getting kicked out of the oligarch club, is a recipe to destroy NA economy for the benefit of Tesla. Canada looking to China as path to survive is path to having a war on Canada. Canada just sitting there and dying isn’t good for US either, but hopefully our oligarchs are saved by buying up cheap resources.

maevyn@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 27 Nov 12:45 next collapse

This really conflicts with the idea that, as platforms, websites are not legally liable for the content their user’s produce. At least at a high level, it feels like those two should be mutually exclusive. If X owns all of the accounts on its site, it should be legally liable for all of them. If X is not legally liable, it should imply some amount of individual ownership.

Like, yes federation is better and we should be pushing for it, but also, we should be trying to push for better regulation of incumbent social media platforms too if we can. Seems unlikely but we can try.

Rekorse@sh.itjust.works on 27 Nov 14:03 collapse

If they are worth saving at all. Social media is a poor replacement for real human connection.

Those companies are just taking advantage of how isolated and lonely people in general are.

Its social heroin.

cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 27 Nov 12:47 next collapse

i hope elon musk dies

DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 Nov 14:23 next collapse

I love it that we can say this here unlike the other place where you would have gotten temp banned for this.

jaemo@sh.itjust.works on 27 Nov 15:16 collapse

I hope it’s from explosive diarrhea and in public, and he’s aware of it every minute, and confused and embarrassed. That’s the important bit, that he goes confused. I want the last spark of chemistry in that shitheels’ brain to be devoted to the utterly failed grasping of his situation.

Ledivin@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 12:55 next collapse

If X owns all of the accounts, then it sounds like they should be liable for all of the speech from those accounts. I hope people jump on this.

Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works on 27 Nov 13:09 next collapse

It’s a stupid thing to do anyway. Now every other corporation that uses Xitter as a social marketing tool just got reminded that their account is essentially valueless as it can be removed from them at his whim.

Dark_Dragon@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 Nov 13:11 next collapse

This !!! We need this

ME5SENGER_24@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 14:36 next collapse

You nailed it on the head—if X owns all X accounts, then X should absolutely be held liable and named as codefendants in all past and future litigation where content posted on X is used in the suit. By asserting ownership over the accounts, X is effectively taking on a level of responsibility for the platform’s use and misuse, akin to how a publisher is held liable for the content it distributes.

This raises serious implications for legal accountability. If X claims ownership, they are asserting control, and with control comes liability. They can’t just cherry-pick the benefits of owning the accounts (like monetization, data, and influence) without accepting the risks, including being dragged into lawsuits where harmful, defamatory, or illegal content originates from their platform.

It would also set a precedent for greater accountability in tech. Platforms often hide behind Section 230 protections to dodge responsibility, but if they step forward and say, ‘We own the content or accounts,’ then they lose the shield of neutrality and should face the consequences accordingly. It’s a slippery slope that X might regret going down if this theory gains traction in courtrooms.

cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 27 Nov 17:10 collapse

elon just admitted in court that he owns multiple accounts dedicated to sharing csam on the internet.

onnekas@sopuli.xyz on 27 Nov 20:25 collapse

I don’t know much about law but I assume that you can also be liable for things you don’t own.

If I rent a car I don’t own it but I’m in full control of it so I’m fully responsible if I break any laws with this car.

I think one could argue in a similar way for Xitter accounts.

Ledivin@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 22:52 collapse

You could argue that, sure, but their defense of that has already been established and accepted - effectively that the “town square” cannot be liable for the speech of people in it… but if Twitter fully owns all accounts, then the people in the square ARE twitter.

chiliedogg@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 13:10 next collapse

in that case, it sounds to me like the Sandy Hook families should be able to sue X for another 1.6 billion for allowing its accounts to be used to defame and threaten the families.

Aeao@lemmy.world on 28 Nov 22:14 collapse

And I think the onion could sue for copyright infringement or something to at least close the accounts.

rivenb@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 14:01 next collapse

Elmo shills for a fuckfaced bastard who harasses families. Why do people buy his shit? Why do governments give him money? Why can’t we make this motherfucker irrelevant!?

humanspiral@lemmy.ca on 27 Nov 16:14 next collapse

you do not own your followers or your account or anything at all on corporate social media

X, and by extention all other social media platforms, would intervene in any and all brands to demand permission for mergers/sales if social media accounts are part of the merger. This is an insane level of megalomania, that goes well beyond “ownership of content posted” online.

The fact that Musk is intervening to protect the most hateful pro-Republican disinformation, while having bought the presidency, and then expecting Supreme court to side with him could be understood as counter to democratic ideals, but its just another step in that direction.

The most likely outcome of a pro-Musk ruling is the onion makes a new lower bid for infowars without the twitter accounts. Maybe Musk bids higher for infowars. There is an anti-trust case for this scenario, but it only applies in a presumed principled democracy.

cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 27 Nov 17:08 collapse

if twitter owns all the accounts, what does that mean for official state run accounts that are archived and saved for historical purposes?

humanspiral@lemmy.ca on 27 Nov 17:11 collapse

Next time someone Musk doesn’t like wins an election, then government account can stay with the ruler he would have preferred win the coup. Venezuela and Bolivia are coups he explicitly endorsed.

IzzyScissor@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 16:26 next collapse

Wow, Alex Jones looks like he aged 15 years in the past few months.

Good.

supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz on 27 Nov 19:25 next collapse

Maybe he will age really fast up to the end of life period where he enters into immense pain and suffering but then just gets stuck their excruciatingly for years while everyone around him abandons him because he is a hateful piece of trash.

Probably not but one can hope, especially when it brings a smile to your face :)

NikkiDimes@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 20:51 collapse

He’s probably experiencing the unimaginable levels of stress he himself once imposed on many people with his platform in the past. Good riddance.

lemonSqueezy@lemm.ee on 27 Nov 21:00 next collapse

Interesting that it’s the same web3 proponents that are the first to say they own your entire digital identity and you have to like it

explodicle@sh.itjust.works on 27 Nov 21:05 collapse

Which proponents?

Fedizen@lemmy.world on 27 Nov 21:20 next collapse

Does this mean X is discarding its neutrality under section 230?

fluxion@lemmy.world on 28 Nov 15:02 collapse

No, completely hypocritical filings that argue completely opposite political stances depending on how favorable it is to them is a hallmark of everyone involved in this administration.

crawancon@lemm.ee on 28 Nov 04:12 next collapse

it’s pretty weird how much is tied to our online identities, and we don’t own them.

and who gives two fucks about repudiation or identity theft anyway.

stinky@redlemmy.com on 28 Nov 14:22 next collapse

X owns my collection of thousands of gay porn links

god is my witness i never thought anyone would want it

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 28 Nov 15:36 collapse

cheekey... but you are missing the point here.

skozzii@lemmy.ca on 28 Nov 15:30 collapse

Musk is not American, he is here to profit off America and does care what happens to it.

If he bleeds the country dry and ruins the country he will just leave while the rest of us are stuck here

MUSK is not American. Be warned.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 28 Nov 15:34 collapse

Global capital has no loyalty.... game 101 tbh

When the war comes, it will be the pedons doing the "defending of property rights"

Prime example: Russo-Ukrainian war, where are all the daddies when property needed to defended?