LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Nov 2024 09:29
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if they were bought overseas or via international resellers.
Classic blunder. Don’t forget to check mobile bands of radios you buy kids!
vividspecter@lemm.ee
on 03 Nov 2024 11:52
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It’s not just the bands. You could have all of the needed bands and still be blocked (and you could me missing one and just get a warning).
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip
on 03 Nov 2024 12:31
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This exactly, as long as your phone has at least one frequency band of the provider, then it will at least connect to their network and allow you to access data. Calling seems to be a whole different thing, though, because it requires something with IMS.
vividspecter@lemm.ee
on 04 Nov 2024 00:58
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This exactly, as long as your phone has at least one frequency band of the provider, then it will at least connect to their network and allow you to access data.
In the implementation in Australia, you actually will lose data access too if you’re blocked (wifi still works of course). That strikes me as kind of dumb, but I guess they don’t want to give the impression that it’s supported at all, since the whole thing is about emergency calling access.
theneverfox@pawb.social
on 04 Nov 2024 00:01
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Can confirm. My phone got kicked off when they started sunsetting 3G. They called me (on said phone with no service lol) and said I needed a new phone. I said “no I don’t, put me back on the network”. We went back and forth, then they forwarded me to the tech department
The tech says “you need a new phone”. I said “no I don’t, I have all but one of the new bands and others with my phone have already gone through this process with you guys”. He said “you can’t believe everything you read online”, I said “be that as it may, I looked at the specs for both my phone and your network, and it meets the requirements”
He starts telling me there’s nothing he can do on his end, I say he just has to find an override to stop blocking my phone. He says he doesn’t have any options like that, I promise him it’s there
After getting tired of going in circles, I say if he doesn’t know how to do it he needs to ask someone or pass me to a higher tier. Surprise surprise, my phone instantly shows bars and he tries to gloss over the whole thing
AsudoxDev@programming.dev
on 07 Nov 2024 07:44
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lol
dugmeup@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 09:31
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This isn’t regulatory. It’s Optus deciding that if they didn’t sell the handset or its foreign bought it is will be blocked. Because of reasons…
And don’t ask questions because software is hard, and telecom is too technical for the plebs.
It’s nothing but a blatant cash grab hidden in a thin veneer of technical babble because it’s tough for modern journalists to question engineering.
breadsmasher@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 09:54
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Are Japan radio frequencies the same as Australia?
RisingSwell@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Nov 2024 12:31
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If by radio you mean the music device, no. My jap import cannot pick up aus stations. If you mean radio frequencies for phones and others, hopefully someone else has the answer haha.
It’s not only the frequencies, but also the modulation and the protocol (“how devices talk to each other”). Your phone may support all needed frequencies and might still not be able to “talk” to the network.
dutchkimble@lemy.lol
on 03 Nov 2024 20:24
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Sites like frequencycheck.com let you find out based on country, carrier or device
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Nov 2024 09:59
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The idea was to prevent people from mistakenly believing that phones were fully working, only to realise they were unable to make emergency calls when the crucial moment came.
Australians with older 4G phones may also be caught out because of the way the phones are configured.
It is up to the telcos to work out which phones are affected, notify the owners, block their phones, and help make other arrangements such as low- or no-cost replacement phones.
However, as Telstra and Optus noted during a Senate inquiry into the shutdown, telecom companies are unable to tell which individual devices suffer from this problem unless have they sold them.
I’m not saying it’s not partly on the providers, but validating that a bunch of obscure phones that aren’t sold in your country meet new regulatory requirements is not as easy as you’re making it out to be.
LorIps@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 10:04
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That’s the reason why every other fucking country still has either 3G or 2G activated. 4G is just a shitshow for making calls.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip
on 03 Nov 2024 12:30
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Well, 2G and 3G are being shut off in the United States as well. I believe AT&T shut down their 2G network in 2017 and shut down their 3G network here recently. And T-Mobile in the United States shut down their 3G network in 2022. And while their 2G network is still currently running, it won’t be forever. I believe Verizon is also in the process of shutting down or has already shut down 2G and 3G as well.
EngineerGaming@feddit.nl
on 03 Nov 2024 19:12
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Where I live, 3G is going to be phased out, but 2G is staying seemingly indefinitely. Not only for the old phones, not only for all the dying villages that are not getting any upgraded equipment, but also for all the automation dependent on it. Apparently quite a few places did it like this.
dugmeup@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 10:25
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It’s not a bunch of a large number. It is a set number of phones from well known providers from a few countries.
Basically no one wanted to pay for one Business Analyst to read documentation and make phone calls to providers. For a program that has years and millions in it.
Or worse, cause it is out of scope
Or the worst, so they could sell the “buy from the provider” bullshit
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Nov 2024 10:34
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Regulatory compliance of hardware is not, and should not be, the responsibility of the service provider. It’s the responsibility of the manufacturer to have their hardware certified basically everywhere.
Frankly, the rules shouldn’t even allow providers to make that determination. They should either be certified to meet the requirements by an independent agency, or have providers be prohibited from allowing them.
dugmeup@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 10:40
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Read the article. Optus is not bothering checking. Just closing stuff off.
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Nov 2024 10:48
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I did read the article. Checking is not and should not be their responsibility.
The only legitimate way to check is to do actual, intensive, independent testing of every device in question, specific to your country’s regulations. Spec sheets are not a valid approach to verifying that a device will work.
How do you think spec sheets work? Engineers rely on data a d there are industry standards. That is the whole point of documentation. Even little motors and resistors have documentation that is relied on. You really think this is not documented accurately?
You really think that Optus is intensely checking and verify every device they sell? They rely on the documentation! They are a retailer of phones.
The way that Aussies think is always interesting. I find a lot of people bend over backwards to justify the reasons for companies. Instead of standing up for customers these arguments seem to look like a shining example of “out of scope” decisions. I have seen in too many corporate meetings and decision makers.
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Nov 2024 17:32
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Everywhere else on the planet, in order for a device to be cleared for sale, that specific model undergoes heavy testing for regulatory compliance by a government agency.
“The specs said it was fine” is literally never going to be a valid legal defense, and making that argument will get you laughed out of court. Either it’s actually certified to be used as you’re allowing it to be used, or you get the hammer dropped on you, as you should.
That is simply not true. What you get is standards. Standards bodies exist. In this most recent debacle all that is needed is compatible bands and VoLTE to make it compatible.
They’re actively blocking North American and international iPhones from connecting to their Network. Apple has updates for each region that automatically download when you get there, but they’re claiming it’s a trade secret so only the phones they sell can get that update that’s made by Apple for them. It isn’t even a firmware update it’s a little app that downloads in the background. Google does the same thing with Android, the pixel line, and anything running the stock with Google services or pixel experience.
MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub
on 03 Nov 2024 10:33
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So to let people know that they won’t have emergency service during an emergency, they prevent them from having ANY service now (24-hour notice). Even if telecom companies behaved perfectly (which they wouldn’t) the initial idea was already a problem.
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 10:52
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You’d think they’b be able to… I dunno… SMS them about the problem, instead of cutting the service they pay for?
Badeendje@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 10:55
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Yes, the phones are non compliant and need to be barred. This is good. Everyone must be able to access emergency services in times of crisis. The fact some manufacturers make phones that don’t use 4g for this means their phones rely on outdated tech and standards and will be excluded.
Railing against this is just weird.
MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub
on 03 Nov 2024 12:08
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Except they weren’t non-compliant before and this is punishing the users, not the manufacturers. I don’t even know what tech my phone uses for emergency services.
Badeendje@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 13:37
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So? Technology moves forward. So of you have a phone no longer compliant you need to get a replacement.
MicrowavedTea@infosec.pub
on 03 Nov 2024 15:12
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These are not 20 year old phones. There’s a reason these transitions are made gradually.
quafeinum@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 17:09
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That’s not how telecommunications work at all. You always have backwards compatibility and you don’t need perfect latency or beam forming to make an emergency call. Don’t kid yourself it is solely to fuck with consumers and to make more money somehow.
Telcos in Australia have so far been the worst money grabbing vultures that I’ve ever seen. Like these motherfuckers would lock a PoE line to the MAC address of an networkadapter, so that you could use one machine and nothing more.
TseseJuer@lemmy.world
on 04 Nov 2024 06:31
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gooddamn your tongue must be raw from licking those corpo assholes all day. take a breather my man good lord!
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee
on 03 Nov 2024 11:23
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But this is Lemmy. If there’s a choice between honesty and blaming capitalism, Lemmy users will always blame capitalism.
postmateDumbass@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 17:16
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If only those affected could call for an appointment to swap to those low or no cost phones.
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Nov 2024 17:29
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The carrier doesn’t decide that.
I literally quoted the part that required carriers to block ineligible phones.
postmateDumbass@lemmy.world
on 04 Nov 2024 01:29
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Im sorry you were unable to percieve the sarcasm ridiculing the legislation for its shortsightedness.
desktop_user@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 03 Nov 2024 20:24
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that shouldn’t matter, what about those that are using phones as remote servers and the ability to call is irrelevant? What about the phones that are glorified ipods? What of the ring doorbell phones?
They also refused to use the standard voice over LTE and refuse to let any thing that they didn’t sell try to connect to their voice over LTE even if it’s compatible. Leaving restricted Apple from enabling voice over LTE for iPhones not from Australia even though it’s just a software update that you need that doesn’t run on the firmware level.
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee
on 03 Nov 2024 11:27
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On one hand, I totally understand that if technical and regulatory issues prevent certain phones from being able to call emergency services, cutting those phones off is a matter of public safety. You don’t want people learning that their phones can’t call emergency services when a loved one is having a heart attack or something.
But this seems like a decision that is pretty toxic to tourism and international business. If I ever visit Australia, am I going to need to buy a phone when I get there? It doesn’t seem wise to make your cell network work all that differently from the rest of the world when cell phones are supposed to work seamlessly across borders.
ABCDE@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 14:41
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It doesn’t seem wise to make your cell network work all that differently from the rest of the world when cell phones are supposed to work seamlessly across borders.
This is/was the USA with their very different system.
This is the USA. Since when is the US part of the rest of the world?
Seems most the world wants to distance themselves from us. Except for some shithole countries.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip
on 03 Nov 2024 11:49
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I actually may have this problem eventually in the United States as well, because I’m running a OnePlus Nord N200 with lineage OS, and it does not seem to be capable of voice over LTE while running lineage OS, but will work fine with voice over LTE using the stock ROM, which I refuse to use. Right now I either have to be within range of Wi-Fi or if I place a call my phone falls back to the 2G network in order to place the call and then flips back to 5G when the call ends.
Edit: on T-Mobile. I do not believe it will work on AT&T at all, and I have not tested with Verizon, so I’m not sure.
Edit 2: I think voice over LTE could be made to work properly because I’ve seen other lineage OS devices that work fine with it. So it must be something with this specific ROM.
kalleboo@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 14:48
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They should have built a solution where the phones that haven’t been tested get cut off, but get an SMS telling them to activate the phone, call SOS once. For the first SOS call, they intercept it, check that the phone was able to make the call, then unblock the phone, and after that, allow SOS calls as normal.
That would require “actually doing work” though.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml
on 03 Nov 2024 15:53
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This is a safety issue — a matter of life and death — so if there is any doubt, we are compelled by law to block to protect customers,
What is that mental gymnastics? They are blocking customers in life and death situations from making emergency calls.
quafeinum@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 17:13
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lol fuck every tourist in the ass sideways I guess.
soulfirethewolf@lemdro.id
on 03 Nov 2024 20:00
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Makes me feel slightly better to know I’m not the only one living in a country (United States) where foreign bought phones are a hit or miss on the networks. wish they could create a better system though.
Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world
on 03 Nov 2024 21:31
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The telecoms are using bad-faith interpretation of the new rules to require their customers to buy (often identical) phones directly from them. This is a corporate money-grab and it needs to be aggressively addressed.
peanutyam@lemmy.world
on 04 Nov 2024 00:10
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Guessing some of the commenters have never dealt with Telstra here in Australia - it’s already reported that these telcos just flat out never tested any phone that they haven’t sold - phones that up until now were actually working perfectly fine (and even have the same model
handset being sold by Telstra/Optus/Vodaphone etc) suddenly disconnected.
It is purely laziness on the part of Telstra and the rest of them and they are using it as an excuse to get people to buy their handsets instead - have not seen one of the “offers” of zero cost replacements either……
Telstra are just corporate scum and this could have been handled a whole lot better but then again you only have to look at the shitfight that we have here called the NBN - a national government funded internet network that the telcos will charge you more than the rest of the developed world to access and nowhere near the speeds, level or service or quality as seen in the rest of the world……
Nobody here in Australia is really surprised this was a massive cock up and anyone who is mustn’t have ever heard of Telstra then……
“We gotta shut down 3G as fast as possible so we can get black spot grant money and then use that money to rebuy the spectrum space at the next auction.”
threaded - newest
Classic blunder. Don’t forget to check mobile bands of radios you buy kids!
It’s not just the bands. You could have all of the needed bands and still be blocked (and you could me missing one and just get a warning).
This exactly, as long as your phone has at least one frequency band of the provider, then it will at least connect to their network and allow you to access data. Calling seems to be a whole different thing, though, because it requires something with IMS.
In the implementation in Australia, you actually will lose data access too if you’re blocked (wifi still works of course). That strikes me as kind of dumb, but I guess they don’t want to give the impression that it’s supported at all, since the whole thing is about emergency calling access.
Can confirm. My phone got kicked off when they started sunsetting 3G. They called me (on said phone with no service lol) and said I needed a new phone. I said “no I don’t, put me back on the network”. We went back and forth, then they forwarded me to the tech department
The tech says “you need a new phone”. I said “no I don’t, I have all but one of the new bands and others with my phone have already gone through this process with you guys”. He said “you can’t believe everything you read online”, I said “be that as it may, I looked at the specs for both my phone and your network, and it meets the requirements”
He starts telling me there’s nothing he can do on his end, I say he just has to find an override to stop blocking my phone. He says he doesn’t have any options like that, I promise him it’s there
After getting tired of going in circles, I say if he doesn’t know how to do it he needs to ask someone or pass me to a higher tier. Surprise surprise, my phone instantly shows bars and he tries to gloss over the whole thing
lol
This isn’t regulatory. It’s Optus deciding that if they didn’t sell the handset or its foreign bought it is will be blocked. Because of reasons…
And don’t ask questions because software is hard, and telecom is too technical for the plebs.
It’s nothing but a blatant cash grab hidden in a thin veneer of technical babble because it’s tough for modern journalists to question engineering.
Are Japan radio frequencies the same as Australia?
If by radio you mean the music device, no. My jap import cannot pick up aus stations. If you mean radio frequencies for phones and others, hopefully someone else has the answer haha.
It’s not only the frequencies, but also the modulation and the protocol (“how devices talk to each other”). Your phone may support all needed frequencies and might still not be able to “talk” to the network.
Sites like frequencycheck.com let you find out based on country, carrier or device
I’m not saying it’s not partly on the providers, but validating that a bunch of obscure phones that aren’t sold in your country meet new regulatory requirements is not as easy as you’re making it out to be.
That’s the reason why every other fucking country still has either 3G or 2G activated. 4G is just a shitshow for making calls.
Well, 2G and 3G are being shut off in the United States as well. I believe AT&T shut down their 2G network in 2017 and shut down their 3G network here recently. And T-Mobile in the United States shut down their 3G network in 2022. And while their 2G network is still currently running, it won’t be forever. I believe Verizon is also in the process of shutting down or has already shut down 2G and 3G as well.
Where I live, 3G is going to be phased out, but 2G is staying seemingly indefinitely. Not only for the old phones, not only for all the dying villages that are not getting any upgraded equipment, but also for all the automation dependent on it. Apparently quite a few places did it like this.
It’s not a bunch of a large number. It is a set number of phones from well known providers from a few countries.
Basically no one wanted to pay for one Business Analyst to read documentation and make phone calls to providers. For a program that has years and millions in it.
Or worse, cause it is out of scope
Or the worst, so they could sell the “buy from the provider” bullshit
Regulatory compliance of hardware is not, and should not be, the responsibility of the service provider. It’s the responsibility of the manufacturer to have their hardware certified basically everywhere.
Frankly, the rules shouldn’t even allow providers to make that determination. They should either be certified to meet the requirements by an independent agency, or have providers be prohibited from allowing them.
Read the article. Optus is not bothering checking. Just closing stuff off.
I did read the article. Checking is not and should not be their responsibility.
The only legitimate way to check is to do actual, intensive, independent testing of every device in question, specific to your country’s regulations. Spec sheets are not a valid approach to verifying that a device will work.
How do you think spec sheets work? Engineers rely on data a d there are industry standards. That is the whole point of documentation. Even little motors and resistors have documentation that is relied on. You really think this is not documented accurately?
You really think that Optus is intensely checking and verify every device they sell? They rely on the documentation! They are a retailer of phones.
The way that Aussies think is always interesting. I find a lot of people bend over backwards to justify the reasons for companies. Instead of standing up for customers these arguments seem to look like a shining example of “out of scope” decisions. I have seen in too many corporate meetings and decision makers.
Everywhere else on the planet, in order for a device to be cleared for sale, that specific model undergoes heavy testing for regulatory compliance by a government agency.
“The specs said it was fine” is literally never going to be a valid legal defense, and making that argument will get you laughed out of court. Either it’s actually certified to be used as you’re allowing it to be used, or you get the hammer dropped on you, as you should.
That is simply not true. What you get is standards. Standards bodies exist. In this most recent debacle all that is needed is compatible bands and VoLTE to make it compatible.
If these two exist, then it works.
Don’t listen to me, here is a reference. …com.au/…/Will-my-phone-work-in-Australia-carrier…
They’re actively blocking North American and international iPhones from connecting to their Network. Apple has updates for each region that automatically download when you get there, but they’re claiming it’s a trade secret so only the phones they sell can get that update that’s made by Apple for them. It isn’t even a firmware update it’s a little app that downloads in the background. Google does the same thing with Android, the pixel line, and anything running the stock with Google services or pixel experience.
So to let people know that they won’t have emergency service during an emergency, they prevent them from having ANY service now (24-hour notice). Even if telecom companies behaved perfectly (which they wouldn’t) the initial idea was already a problem.
You’d think they’b be able to… I dunno… SMS them about the problem, instead of cutting the service they pay for?
.
Yes, the phones are non compliant and need to be barred. This is good. Everyone must be able to access emergency services in times of crisis. The fact some manufacturers make phones that don’t use 4g for this means their phones rely on outdated tech and standards and will be excluded.
Railing against this is just weird.
Except they weren’t non-compliant before and this is punishing the users, not the manufacturers. I don’t even know what tech my phone uses for emergency services.
So? Technology moves forward. So of you have a phone no longer compliant you need to get a replacement.
These are not 20 year old phones. There’s a reason these transitions are made gradually.
That’s not how telecommunications work at all. You always have backwards compatibility and you don’t need perfect latency or beam forming to make an emergency call. Don’t kid yourself it is solely to fuck with consumers and to make more money somehow.
Telcos in Australia have so far been the worst money grabbing vultures that I’ve ever seen. Like these motherfuckers would lock a PoE line to the MAC address of an networkadapter, so that you could use one machine and nothing more.
gooddamn your tongue must be raw from licking those corpo assholes all day. take a breather my man good lord!
But this is Lemmy. If there’s a choice between honesty and blaming capitalism, Lemmy users will always blame capitalism.
If only those affected could call for an appointment to swap to those low or no cost phones.
The carrier doesn’t decide that.
I literally quoted the part that required carriers to block ineligible phones.
Im sorry you were unable to percieve the sarcasm ridiculing the legislation for its shortsightedness.
that shouldn’t matter, what about those that are using phones as remote servers and the ability to call is irrelevant? What about the phones that are glorified ipods? What of the ring doorbell phones?
not all phones need to call.
They also refused to use the standard voice over LTE and refuse to let any thing that they didn’t sell try to connect to their voice over LTE even if it’s compatible. Leaving restricted Apple from enabling voice over LTE for iPhones not from Australia even though it’s just a software update that you need that doesn’t run on the firmware level.
On one hand, I totally understand that if technical and regulatory issues prevent certain phones from being able to call emergency services, cutting those phones off is a matter of public safety. You don’t want people learning that their phones can’t call emergency services when a loved one is having a heart attack or something.
But this seems like a decision that is pretty toxic to tourism and international business. If I ever visit Australia, am I going to need to buy a phone when I get there? It doesn’t seem wise to make your cell network work all that differently from the rest of the world when cell phones are supposed to work seamlessly across borders.
This is/was the USA with their very different system.
This is the USA. Since when is the US part of the rest of the world?
Seems most the world wants to distance themselves from us. Except for some shithole countries.
I actually may have this problem eventually in the United States as well, because I’m running a OnePlus Nord N200 with lineage OS, and it does not seem to be capable of voice over LTE while running lineage OS, but will work fine with voice over LTE using the stock ROM, which I refuse to use. Right now I either have to be within range of Wi-Fi or if I place a call my phone falls back to the 2G network in order to place the call and then flips back to 5G when the call ends.
Edit: on T-Mobile. I do not believe it will work on AT&T at all, and I have not tested with Verizon, so I’m not sure.
Edit 2: I think voice over LTE could be made to work properly because I’ve seen other lineage OS devices that work fine with it. So it must be something with this specific ROM.
They should have built a solution where the phones that haven’t been tested get cut off, but get an SMS telling them to activate the phone, call SOS once. For the first SOS call, they intercept it, check that the phone was able to make the call, then unblock the phone, and after that, allow SOS calls as normal.
That would require “actually doing work” though.
What is that mental gymnastics? They are blocking customers in life and death situations from making emergency calls.
lol fuck every tourist in the ass sideways I guess.
Makes me feel slightly better to know I’m not the only one living in a country (United States) where foreign bought phones are a hit or miss on the networks. wish they could create a better system though.
The telecoms are using bad-faith interpretation of the new rules to require their customers to buy (often identical) phones directly from them. This is a corporate money-grab and it needs to be aggressively addressed.
Guessing some of the commenters have never dealt with Telstra here in Australia - it’s already reported that these telcos just flat out never tested any phone that they haven’t sold - phones that up until now were actually working perfectly fine (and even have the same model handset being sold by Telstra/Optus/Vodaphone etc) suddenly disconnected.
It is purely laziness on the part of Telstra and the rest of them and they are using it as an excuse to get people to buy their handsets instead - have not seen one of the “offers” of zero cost replacements either……
Telstra are just corporate scum and this could have been handled a whole lot better but then again you only have to look at the shitfight that we have here called the NBN - a national government funded internet network that the telcos will charge you more than the rest of the developed world to access and nowhere near the speeds, level or service or quality as seen in the rest of the world……
Nobody here in Australia is really surprised this was a massive cock up and anyone who is mustn’t have ever heard of Telstra then……
“We gotta shut down 3G as fast as possible so we can get black spot grant money and then use that money to rebuy the spectrum space at the next auction.”
-Telstra