I mean, yes. The advantage of fixed priced contracts over traditional cost plus contracts is that instead of Boeing twiddling their thumbs for three years wasting time trying to figure out why their original design is shit and having the government pay for it, space x is just out a rocket. Government gives 0 shits. I wonder if there penalties built in if it’s behind schedule
captainastronaut@seattlelunarsociety.org
on 19 Jun 15:35
collapse
With a functioning federal government I would agree with you. But unfortunately they have an open checkbook right now, with no accountability or critical oversight.
I hate to be this guy, but this is just… not true. That’s not how this works at all. How is the government giving SpaceX money outside of a contract? They aren’t.
Everyone wants to find a reason to hate SpaceX because Musk, but the truth is SpaceX is a well-ran innovative company.
I think it’s not fair to say that iteration doesn’t ever include any steps back. Development isn’t always straightforward and it doesn’t always go perfectly.
You’re looking for a “gotcha” here but my whole point is that people are judging SpaceX entirely on Elon being involved, rather than it’s actual merits.
My opinion shouldn’t matter here.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 19 Jun 17:43
collapse
In total, $20.7 billion pleged/paid to SpaceX since 2008, $8.7 billion actually paid as of a few months ago, $3.4 awarded/pledged in just 2024.
Its funny, I remember being raised conservative and being taught that no one spends money as wisely as someone spending their own money.
Welp, thats out the fucking window for all subcontractors, as well as… just give poor/homeless/rent overburdened people money, and they’ll help themselves far more efficiently than a giant bureacracy will.
ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
on 19 Jun 16:03
nextcollapse
I guess he is actually back in charge of his companies.
Early analysis suggests that one of the high-pressure nitrogen gas tanks in the cargo bay ruptured. This would be unrelated to the rocketry aspects of Starship, those tanks are pretty plain vanilla technology and if this is actually what happened it's weird because those tanks are rated for way higher safety margins.
Maybe. Regardless, problem either in design or build.
Designing under-reinforced tanks indicates that the design can’t make payload and they’re cutting too far into structure allocations to make up for it.
Rupture could also be poor materials (sign of Boeing-style disregard for standards and safety) or a bad weld (same plus maybe training issues on the line). Means they’re running bad QA/QC protocols if the faulty material/construction made it to flight.
Chasing performance at the cost of safety sounds right down Musk’s alley.
No, not necessarily a problem in either of those things. As I said, it ruptured way below the pressure the tank was rated for - nothing wrong with the design there. And I don't know if it's been explicitly confirmed or not, but those tanks get tested above that pressure before they get installed. The ship had already done a single-engine test firing so it must have actually been pressured up to that already when it did that previously.
It sounds to me like something happened that damaged the tank after it was already in place. That would be my guess. Something banged into it and nobody noticed.
SpaceX playing soccer with COPVs and then bolting them on the vehicle doesn’t feel like a more comforting answer but I agree it’s one I didn’t list. Not sure I understand why people would be rattling around inside the vehicle after a single engine test and then not re-running the single engine for a regression test.
/shrug, still you’re right. Unreported damage post-installation would totally do this, it’s just not a root cause I’ve seen. Would speak to a breakdown in safety culture for my folks, not sure what the safety culture looks like on the Starship line.
ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world
on 19 Jun 16:45
nextcollapse
Maybe we can gaslight him into thinking he’s the only one fit to pilot the Starship, making him insist on being aboard it for future tests.
LadyMeow@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 19 Jun 16:55
collapse
I mean if he was piloting it, it wouldn’t have blown up! He’s the best and smartest person ever, all the best people are saying it. I think he should definitely pilot them all!
Curious_Canid@lemmy.ca
on 19 Jun 16:48
nextcollapse
This is actually a triumph for Musk. SpaceX has figured out how to blow up their rockets without all the cost and time required to prepare for a launch.
BastingChemina@slrpnk.net
on 19 Jun 19:07
nextcollapse
They are getting better at blowing rockets. The goal is a 24h turnaround, blow one rocket, bring a new one and blow it again in less than 24h
Why go anywhere in the world? It’s all about the experience man, 25k to have experienced being in space is an incredibly unique and cool experience is it not?
Because the world has actual things in it like people, wildlife, culture and history. Space has none of those things. Unless you’re there working as a scientist to study things that can’t be studied on earth, it’s pointless.
As of now it’s a glorified roller coaster. At its best private space travel could be Disneyland in space. At worst it’s just rich people paying to be carried up mount everest for clout but with exponentially more resources wasted.
I understand from your comment that, within your limited capacity, it is actually hard , next to impossible even, to imagine the benefits of having cheap orbital and suborbital transportation and infrastructure.
I imagine it must be difficult living that way so I just want to say you are very brave by raising awareness to such disabilities, keep at it, champ, you are doing a great job
I understand from your comment that you’ve read too many sci-fi books to understand what a massive resource sink that would be with negligible benefit. It’s pretty basic physics.
We’ve already got cheap transportation, look how that’s turning out for the planet. But I’m sure burning God knows how much energy to launch more junk into space will save the world.
We’re already approaching a critical mass of private equity space trash in orbit, what’s a few more lowest-bidder megastructures? At least the ultra rich will get their life rafts while we burn.
Cannot possibly spin “blew up randomly during test prep” as a positive outcome. They probably don’t know how not to build that specific one unless they happened to instrument the faulty prop system components - they know that it failed but likely not why or how to fix it.
All evidence points to Starship having a super-finicky MPS that fails on the regular… which probably means they’re chasing performance by removing mass from the MPS and tank structure… which means either this design doesn’t work (totally possible) or that the as-built performance falls short of what was promised.
If you want to stan for Musk, I guess everyone has a type and I’m not going to shame you over it… but blowing up during test prep is not a good news story.
threaded - newest
This only matters to me if he was in it at the time so I can organize a party.
.
I mean, yes. The advantage of fixed priced contracts over traditional cost plus contracts is that instead of Boeing twiddling their thumbs for three years wasting time trying to figure out why their original design is shit and having the government pay for it, space x is just out a rocket. Government gives 0 shits. I wonder if there penalties built in if it’s behind schedule
With a functioning federal government I would agree with you. But unfortunately they have an open checkbook right now, with no accountability or critical oversight.
I hate to be this guy, but this is just… not true. That’s not how this works at all. How is the government giving SpaceX money outside of a contract? They aren’t.
Everyone wants to find a reason to hate SpaceX because Musk, but the truth is SpaceX is a well-ran innovative company.
.
This is not evidence to the contrary, especially when the company is intentionally trying to find the limits on a development article.
Falcon 9 (the only rocket they actually sell launches on) is one of the most reliable launch vehicles in the world.
.
enginepatrol.com/two-gr-corollas-caught-fire-toyo…
Here are two Toyota vehicles randomly bursting into flames. Toyota makes shitty cars (ranked 3rd most reliable by consumerreports.org, btw). consumerreports.org/…/who-makes-the-most-reliable…
.
Are the cars shitty, or are they ranked 3rd?
repeating the same thing does not make your point stronger
.
.
I mean you’re right in a sense, but usually when I iterate on a design it gets better not worse.
I think it’s not fair to say that iteration doesn’t ever include any steps back. Development isn’t always straightforward and it doesn’t always go perfectly.
Well, I did say usually. Regressions happen. I’m just being sarcastic because I don’t like Nazi-owned enterprises. /me shrugs
Their unmanned test rocket just blew up. Boo hoo
Besides the federal government trying to strong arm governments into purchasing star link?
washingtonpost.com/…/elon-musk-starlink-trump-tar…
Then don’t be. I’m not sure why you feel the need to glaze the world’s richest political agent, unless…
Are you a SpaceX employee? You’ve said this in the past.
SpaceX ≠ Elon Musk
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Please read a bit about Gwynne Shotwell. She’s amazing and runs the company very competently.
.
You’re looking for a “gotcha” here but my whole point is that people are judging SpaceX entirely on Elon being involved, rather than it’s actual merits.
My opinion shouldn’t matter here.
independent.co.uk/…/musk-government-contracts-spa…
In total, $20.7 billion pleged/paid to SpaceX since 2008, $8.7 billion actually paid as of a few months ago, $3.4 awarded/pledged in just 2024.
Its funny, I remember being raised conservative and being taught that no one spends money as wisely as someone spending their own money.
Welp, thats out the fucking window for all subcontractors, as well as… just give poor/homeless/rent overburdened people money, and they’ll help themselves far more efficiently than a giant bureacracy will.
I guess he is actually back in charge of his companies.
Early analysis suggests that one of the high-pressure nitrogen gas tanks in the cargo bay ruptured. This would be unrelated to the rocketry aspects of Starship, those tanks are pretty plain vanilla technology and if this is actually what happened it's weird because those tanks are rated for way higher safety margins.
Maybe. Regardless, problem either in design or build.
Designing under-reinforced tanks indicates that the design can’t make payload and they’re cutting too far into structure allocations to make up for it.
Rupture could also be poor materials (sign of Boeing-style disregard for standards and safety) or a bad weld (same plus maybe training issues on the line). Means they’re running bad QA/QC protocols if the faulty material/construction made it to flight.
Chasing performance at the cost of safety sounds right down Musk’s alley.
No, not necessarily a problem in either of those things. As I said, it ruptured way below the pressure the tank was rated for - nothing wrong with the design there. And I don't know if it's been explicitly confirmed or not, but those tanks get tested above that pressure before they get installed. The ship had already done a single-engine test firing so it must have actually been pressured up to that already when it did that previously.
It sounds to me like something happened that damaged the tank after it was already in place. That would be my guess. Something banged into it and nobody noticed.
SpaceX playing soccer with COPVs and then bolting them on the vehicle doesn’t feel like a more comforting answer but I agree it’s one I didn’t list. Not sure I understand why people would be rattling around inside the vehicle after a single engine test and then not re-running the single engine for a regression test.
/shrug, still you’re right. Unreported damage post-installation would totally do this, it’s just not a root cause I’ve seen. Would speak to a breakdown in safety culture for my folks, not sure what the safety culture looks like on the Starship line.
Thoughts and prayers… lol
Why can’t he just blow up.
Maybe we can gaslight him into thinking he’s the only one fit to pilot the Starship, making him insist on being aboard it for future tests.
I mean if he was piloting it, it wouldn’t have blown up! He’s the best and smartest person ever, all the best people are saying it. I think he should definitely pilot them all!
This is actually a triumph for Musk. SpaceX has figured out how to blow up their rockets without all the cost and time required to prepare for a launch.
They are getting better at blowing rockets. The goal is a 24h turnaround, blow one rocket, bring a new one and blow it again in less than 24h
I’m making a note here: Huge Success
It’s hard to overstate my satisfaction.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/490fa433-c345-4e9c-9fa9-e5c81bd01ac5.jpeg">
Aw, it doesn’t actually call out Elmo in the headline. :(
Nice. Now they know how to not build that specific one
Trial and error correction people
The best thing is that these launchs are getting cheaper with time
The falcon 9 has an internal launch cost per kilogram of about 1000 USD/KG
If they get starship right (and all evidence points to it getting ready soon) internal launch cost is estimated to be between 200 to 300 USD/KG
We are very close to seeing 25k USD or less tickets to space
Get ready for the future bois, it won’t wait for you
… And we need 25k space tickets why? For a cool selfie?
Why go anywhere in the world? It’s all about the experience man, 25k to have experienced being in space is an incredibly unique and cool experience is it not?
Because the world has actual things in it like people, wildlife, culture and history. Space has none of those things. Unless you’re there working as a scientist to study things that can’t be studied on earth, it’s pointless.
As of now it’s a glorified roller coaster. At its best private space travel could be Disneyland in space. At worst it’s just rich people paying to be carried up mount everest for clout but with exponentially more resources wasted.
I understand from your comment that, within your limited capacity, it is actually hard , next to impossible even, to imagine the benefits of having cheap orbital and suborbital transportation and infrastructure.
I imagine it must be difficult living that way so I just want to say you are very brave by raising awareness to such disabilities, keep at it, champ, you are doing a great job
I understand from your comment that you’ve read too many sci-fi books to understand what a massive resource sink that would be with negligible benefit. It’s pretty basic physics.
We’ve already got cheap transportation, look how that’s turning out for the planet. But I’m sure burning God knows how much energy to launch more junk into space will save the world.
We’re already approaching a critical mass of private equity space trash in orbit, what’s a few more lowest-bidder megastructures? At least the ultra rich will get their life rafts while we burn.
How difficult is it to communicate to others without letting your ego get in the way? I swear, you people act like literal children sometimes haha
Oh c’mon.
Cannot possibly spin “blew up randomly during test prep” as a positive outcome. They probably don’t know how not to build that specific one unless they happened to instrument the faulty prop system components - they know that it failed but likely not why or how to fix it.
All evidence points to Starship having a super-finicky MPS that fails on the regular… which probably means they’re chasing performance by removing mass from the MPS and tank structure… which means either this design doesn’t work (totally possible) or that the as-built performance falls short of what was promised.
If you want to stan for Musk, I guess everyone has a type and I’m not going to shame you over it… but blowing up during test prep is not a good news story.
I’m starting to wonder how much of these explosions are acts of corporate sabotage.
None
This is the way