Microsoft Is Now Being Sued Over Sunsetting Windows 10
(lifehacker.com)
from faizalr@fedia.io to technology@lemmy.world on 13 Aug 00:09
https://fedia.io/m/technology@lemmy.world/t/2552694
from faizalr@fedia.io to technology@lemmy.world on 13 Aug 00:09
https://fedia.io/m/technology@lemmy.world/t/2552694
Microsoft is being sued by a man who feels cheated by the current plans to sunset Windows 10. He makes some good points, but I doubt he’ll win.
threaded - newest
Looking into switching to Linux…
Do it.
If you have an old laptop, put Linux on it, get comfortable using it. Then when you are ready, make the full switch on your main computer.
I have used Linux for a few years mostly on my servers, but that’s what I did to get used to the desktop experience. I setup a second SSD to have the option of dual booting if I needed it. That was back in March and I haven’t booted into Windows once.
If not, look around, you can buy off-lease corporate laptops and ultra-small desktops that are just old enough to not support 11 for a song. They lack a GPU for good gaming, but they tend to be extremely well supported on Linux and are not slow. For the price of a Windows license, you can have something to learn on without effecting your main computer.
Yeah I tried. Turns out my fingerprint reader isn’t supported on Linux and never will be and my audio sounded like absolute trash. I probably could have have fixed the audio issue but the fingerprint thing turned me off. Went back to Windows 11 which works just fine for me.
Seconded on do it. It's a lot better than it was even a few years ago.
May you run into a nerd with a Ventoy USB full of beginner-friendly distros in their back pocket to help you along your journey.
There are at least two of us out there, I’m sure of it.
I keep a ventoy USB in my backpack at all times.
Currently I have mint popos endeavour cachy bazzite fedora opensuse. I’m thinking of adding a few more. Maybe add nixOS and Debian to the mix.
And a pack of condoms ?
What, for people to wear on their fingers to keep oil off or something?
Or maybe just put Arch in that Ventoy USB. (Yeah, yeah, I use Arch, btw.)
HeliumOS, Kubuntu, Linux Mint (standard and Debian Edition), Pop!_OS, Ubuntu, VanillaOS, and Zorin OS here. Helium and Vanilla are not necessarily beginner-friendly but I use them in specific places.
Hehe same, I usually have an Ubuntu USB on me
I keep a keychain in my backpack for jusr such an ocassion!
Bought an iodd a few months ago to do my part 🫡
I’m the same, I’ve got a perfectly good desktop machine that isn’t Win11 compatible, as well as a Windows 11 laptop.
Most of what I do on the desktop is browser based, and I have the laptop in case I brick the desktop, so nothing to lose by trying.
Ironically, if I’d been able to upgrade to 11, there’s no way I’d bother with any of this.
You can upgrade to 11, nothibgs stopping you.
But it is far smarter to quit with the abusive, and spying, environment.
Linux is easy and works.
As someone who recently made the switch, DM me if there’s anything I can help with. A lot of the Linux Bros on here will be completely unhelpful out of smug superiority. Also, if you have an HP, you will almost certainly have to do a LOT more work (I had to learn to edit GRUB config files pre-startup). It will be much easier if you don’t have an HP. Anyway, open offer. Also, do Linux Mint.
As someone who recently made the switch, DM me if there’s anything I can help with. A lot of the Linux Bros on here will be completely unhelpful out of smug superiority. Also, if you have an HP, you will almost certainly have to do a LOT more work (I had to learn to edit GRUB config files pre-startup). It will be much easier if you don’t have an HP. Anyway, open offer. Also, do Linux Mint.
I’m in the process of switching myself. Threw Ubuntu Studio on my laptop (Samsung Galaxy Book3 Ultra) and I’m currently testing for audio and music production to see if I can make the switch on my main PC for work. I’m loving it so far, though it’s looking like a step back for audio production unfortunately. That being said, where there’s a will there’s a way!
It’s much easier to install Linux these days than it is to install Windows. And with KDE Plasma the user experience is really similar. As for the distribution I would suggest OpenSuse as that has very little requirement for terminal commands, they’ve packaged GUI elements in the whole distro.
As for Tumbleweed vs regular, that’s up to you. I’m happy with Tumbleweed.
I’m happy with Tumbleweed too, but I Max need to point out that the documentation kinda sucks and the community is kind of small. If you’re confident in applying documentation from other distros, you’ll be fine.
I generally recommend Linux Mint to new users because the community is large and accustomed to helping new users, and you can use documentation for Ubuntu and Debian generally without issue.
Check out openSUSE once you figure out what you like and don’t like about Linux distros, it’s a great end game IMO.
🐧🐧*🐧🐧🐧=🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧🐧
Its a fun fantasy but Microsofts pockets are way too deep to lose to some avarage joe.
Also they can be exempt from the law by gifting donnie and co gold, or initiating “christian friendly initiatives”.
Lol who downvoted this
He’d probably have an easier time with the lawsuit if instead of appealing to upgrade logic, he just went with, I don’t know…
THE TIME MICROSOFT PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED WINDOWS 10 WOULD BE THE LAST NUMBERED VERSION AND THAT THEY’D NEVER NEED TO UPGRADE OS VERSION AGAIN.
www.bbc.com/news/technology-32658340
Pepperidge Farm remembers, Microsoft scum.
It’s a free upgrade. Bitching about the version is insane. It was a marketing change they turned around on. It still meant you get a free upgrade which used to cost money.
Not if your PC doesn’t support some arbitrary requirements. I can’t upgrade because of the TPM requirement. There are ways to get around it. But at the same time Windows 11 isn’t really something I want to upgrade to. It’s got a bunch of crap I don’t need or want. Not that Windows 10 didn’t. Windows 11 is just worse and I’ve drawn a line.
I have to use Windows 11 for work so I know what I’m missing. Nothing. Well, the screenshot button being mapped to the snipping tool is nice. But there is already a shortcut for the snipping tool.
TPM isn’t arbitrary, it’s the path to a new from of CPU embedded, digital rights management that will marry your software to your cpu and make it non-transferable. The end goal being some successor of pluton where all code you download is encrypted and you can’t ever see it.
You won’t be able to jailbreak your PC in the future, just like 99% of smartphones.
You can’t jailbreak phones?
No, it used to be a thing but not anymore. I have a bunch of android 9 phones and I tried, while there are proof of concept exploits that in theory could allow me to gain root access to my own phones, due to “safety reasons” the security research community no longer provides working prototypes.
Which really means that they are only for sale on the exploit market which I, as an individual cannot even access, not that I could afford these intelligence agency tooling.
So my phones are technically no longer “safe” to use and I would have to buy new ones, but also I cannot jailbreak them to use them for something else (in my case, as a simple wireless camera)
There are a few phones, less than 1% of all phones, which the manufacturer will allow you to unlock the bootloader and obtain root privileges. This privilege often costs 1000$-1500$ for what is the performance of a 300$ phone.
But that is not a jailbreak, that is an permitted privilege granted by to you by the manufacturer.
Of course, since almost no one can access root on their phones, the development of any non-sanctioned software has slowed to a crawl with most android rom projects dying outright.
So the point of my comment is that this dynamic will be slowly made the norm for the Personal Computer.
I had no idea, I always assumed it’s possible but breaks banking and ID apps
When you actually jailbreak a phone, which is when you don’t ask permission from the guy who sold you the phone, there are ways to have root access that is undetectable by any normal means. Ideally no application should be able to tell anything that you don’t want to know. Want to have root and stuff don’t break, they just shouldn’t know.
Absolute nonsense 🤣
Hail the corporate god! Repent, for the end of Windows 10 is near!
Judging from your username, you also like those built-in AI features.
No, just an understanding how a court room works.
.
Let me quote the literal first line in this thread.
Boy you look foolish 🤣
.
🤡
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2a9e3758-727f-4202-ad9b-000eefa8dda8.png">
Win 11 is a downgrade with forced ms accounts, more ads, more distractions (tabloid “news”, weather, more ads, Microsoft own product ads) added to task bar, edge and notifications. On an OS I already paid money for!
And? What does that have to do with a lawsuit? You’re going to go into court and argue that? It’s amazing how hard it is for some to stay on topic.
Ah got it, you are some AI bot trying to troll.
You’re the one coming in here with some bullshit argument. Nobody was complaining about the price of the upgrade until you came along and went off topic.
Nixon wasn’t speaking authoritatively there, I believe both he and M$ clarified that. And the “correlating” announcement was more “we will be continuously updating windows 10” unlike the assumed by many people to mean “perpetually” which is just silly.
You’re telling me you expected windows 10 to remain forever the last Windows version? Maybe if they decided to rename the OS moving forward.
I suppose you could take the stance of it just becoming versioned in the same way Linux distros are, but then you just get left being on an old version of Windows 10.
No, I didn’t expect that, which is why it was stupid to say it in the first place. You can’t turn this around and put it on the customer to have to read between the lines what the business is trying to actually say. How about, the multi-billion dollar company that has entire buildings full of lawyers doesn’t make claims that it can’t back up?
I’m not saying it’s right to expect that the Windows operating system was never going to have to have a paid upgrade again, but it was also stupid and wrong to make the claim that it wouldn’t. That’s on them. Nobody held a gun to their head and told them to lie to their customers and then later claim they didn’t mean it. And furthermore, why give them the benefit of the doubt? You think if you were in trouble because of something stupid you said, Microsoft is going to come to your aid? Is it being fair? To a company that wouldn’t care if they accidentally bankrupted you with a forced update?
And sure, they can "clarify"all they want that he didn’t mean the words that he said precisely and accurately in unambiguous English. It doesn’t change the fact that he’s not some random employee. He is an executive. He knows, and everyone else should know as well, that he speaks as a representative of the company. Otherwise what’s to keep them from lying through their teeth about whatever features they want? “It prints free money! It’ll cure all your diseases! No, no… he didn’t mean that.”
Again, an employee speaking off the cuff in an unofficial way isn’t “the company making claims.”
If this was the janitorial staff, would you have taken them at their word? An intern who waddled on stage? Granted Nixon had a little more authority within the company than either of those individuals, but he was by no means in a position that anyone paying attention would take his word on this particular statement.
The issue here is that the media took this “random” employees word as gospel and without getting clarification ran with dozens of “ThiS Is tHe lASt vErSIoN oF wINdOwS!” clickbait articles. All fact checking thrown out the window, no proper follow up. They just spun an entire story out of his off the cuff statement.
Edit: It should be clarified: Nixon wasn’t an executive. He was a software developer. I don’t believe he was even a “senior software developer” at the time.
That’s basically how Linux works, especially if you use a rolling release distro like Arch, openSUSE Tumbleweed, or Fedora Silverblue.
Honestly, if Windows followed a similar policy, I think people would be less interested in alternatives. Perhaps charge for access to new features, drop support for older hardware, etc, but let people keep using it if they like it.
There’s nothing that would change here other than the name of what’s installed. People would still be unable to update to the new version.
Son of a bitch, your profile pic got me blowing on my screen.
Nice work.
That wasn’t legally binding.
That was advertised.
I doubt that would hold up in court as false advertising given the significant time gap between them marketing Win 10 that way and them releasing Win 11.
To be fair, win 11 is more or less win 10 just with a shittier UI and even more intrusive bullshit.
Because MS went back on their promise that Win10 would be the last, you can no longer trust anything they say.
No, they never did. Yes, it was all over the news, but they literally didn’t. Go be angry at media for making stuff up. You don’t have to believe me, go ahead and find that announcement yourself. You won’t because there was never such an announcement.
Notice how even the article you linked doesn’t give a full quote? It just quotes someone saying “last version” without any context of the sentence it was used in? I will give you the full quote where that comes form. Someone asked a Microsoft developer what they are currently working on, and the answer was:
It is obvious from context “last version” meant “latest version” here. And that misreading of a quote, conveniently not included in most articles, is the only source for all these news. No announcement. No journalist actually asking Microsoft about it. Just a fleeting comment by one Microsoft employee that obviously meant something else, in an answer about something else, but why let that get in the way of a good story.
And this was an answer to an audience question in a "Tiles, Notifications, and Action Center” presentation by a single Microsoft developer, on a developer conference. The absolute last place to look for a ground-breaking announcement about Microsoft’s future.
And the exact same article you linked confirms Microsoft is still deciding on the name for the next Windows? Which would make no sense if there was no next Windows?
There will be no Windows 11, says some guy who doesn’t work at Microsoft.
And then a bunch of cherry picked quotes about continous updates being a good thing. Yep, continous updates, just like we got in Windows Vista, and that have nothing to do with there not being new Windows versions.
Modern journalism is useless. Someone made up a thing, everyone else copied it. And not a single media outlet actually asked Microsoft about it. No one. Or maybe they did, but the answer meant there is no news, so let’s ignore it.
It’s really not hard to find the original statement from Microsoft, which was made by a Microsoft employee.
At the 2015 Ignite conference, Microsoft employee Jerry Nixon stated that Windows 10 would be the “last version of Windows”, a statement reflecting the company’s intent to apply the software as a service business model to Windows, with new versions and updates to be released over an indefinite period.[68][69][70] In 2021, however, Microsoft announced that Windows 10 would be succeeded on compatible hardware by Windows 11—and that Windows 10 support will end on October 14, 2025, marking a departure from what had been dubbed “Windows as a service”.[71][72]
Did you even read my comment? I already addressed what you said, and already included the quote.
But I really like how in the text you copied, “Windows 10 is the last version of Windows”, a factual statement about the newest version of Windows at the time, was editorialized into “Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows”, a statement about the future that was never said.
Wish I could upvote you more. So sick of hearing about the “W10 is the last version of Windows” story.
Got you fam. You get an upvote too.
“Modern journalism is useless”, but when Jerry Nixon said “last”, you’re telling us he really meant “latest.”
Go on, pull the other one. No really, it’s got bells on it.
Yes, the least a journalist could do, if they really thought that a developer talking about changes to notifications accidentally let slip a huge announcement about something else, would be to confirm it with him, or anyone else at Microsoft. But that would make the story go away.
Its funny since when the .iso for Windows 11 first became available, it would state you were installing Windows 10 or even Windows Server edition but after installing, it would be Windows 11
Window build numbers are still Windows 10.xxxxxx
And that’s why if you open the command line in Windows 11 you will read:
10.0.26200.5742
Et voilà!
Uhhh what about Apple?
No one cares about Macs.
Several million people who buy them every year certainly do.
Several million nobodies lol
That’s like switching from Tesla to BMW and paying the premium for the heated seats and adjustable shock absorbers to work.
Huh?
That’s switching from EvilCorp A to EvilCorp B, and paying a premium for everything. It’s a valid decision, but not a good one.
I wasn't suggesting switching to Apple. I was suggesting we sue Apple, who offers far less support.
Oh, that makes sense. I totally misunderstood 🙈
It’s a) well enshittified to be cumbersome to use without apple’s shitty cloud, b) quality control is really bad last few releases and c) just a different class of a same phylum of fucking corporate roaches
Yes. Old Apple computers are great… for running Linux. Mac OS tends to shut down.
The end of the article misses one possible way to deal with your computer, migrating to Linux. It’s not possible for all the mass of people, but it’s still a possibility.
It very much is. If you’re willing to invest a few hours of your time to learn something new, you can absolutely switch to Linux.
There is still a lot of software and some very popular games that just don’t work on Linux.
That’s the real problem. You have to be willing to swap out some things. Fortunately, game options seem better than the have ever been, but the old advice was to just game on consoles.
Hell yes.
Switch to Mint, folks! It’s easy and works just like Windows, except better.
I feel like Linux right now is where Windows was in the XP days. for 90% of users it will work out of the box for them. They will be able to check their email, watch YouTube, doom scroll on their choose social media. The challenge is that for the other 10%, the learning curve is a lot steeper than XP was. The learning curve problem is compounded by the massive pile of guide for deprecated sub systems.
It’s been clear for years now that I’ll have to fully switch over to Linux eventually once Windows is completely locked down like Macs are. The Steam Deck has been a great stepping stone to getting more comfortable with using it.
Even if he does win, it’s still Windows, still under their control. It’d be maliciously and quite supraliminaly enshittified until it’s unusable. Just slap on a CachyOS or anything else open source
Thanks for my word of the day!
I’ve seen this episode before. something, something, WinXP.
I agree that windows should not stop supporting previous versions of windows. Especially when going from windows 10 to 11 wasn’t at all that big of a change. They very easily could have waited longer before making windows 11 the standard or even windows 11 period because it was not that big of a change.
Unfortunately they did not do anything illegal in my opinion but we’ll have to see how this plays out I guess.
And windows 10 will be the last windows. Did everyone forget that??
I mean I would rather use linux if I could get away with it. Unfortunately I have a lot of engineering programs on my pc that I know for a fact would definitely not run on linux which sucks I guess since I am stuck with windows. I thought about dual booting my pc but then immediately realized that is problematic XD.
You can dual boot using separate drives. This has worked for me without any issues and I routinely use solidworks.
Stupid question. How did you do that without having the drives interfere with windows? When I have done that it massively screw up my windows boot somehow and it made everything weird. Basically I had to uninstall it because it was massively grating on my nerves what it was doing to my os. Basically it changed the time and date to a few decades in the future and I could not get around to fixing it. It also caused issues where I couldn’t access certain sites online because of the issues I was having with my pc and the fact the date was so far in the future. Thanks!
I don’t exactly know how the drivers didn’t interfere as I have never done any specific fixes to it. In windows I’ve ran some debloating scripts but I don’t know if that’s the reason, as it seems more deeply rooted.
I have always dual booted from separate drives since I started using linux. I used Ubuntu, arch and finally settled on fedora. In conclusion, dual booting has never been a problem for me.
Thank you! I hope this works when I get home XD
Good luck :3
You can try to put the engineering programs in dedicated snapshotted windows VMs and basically time-capsule them as a working tool forever that never changes and works on any machine.
Your right but that would have massive performance issues. I could definitely do that and that is not a bad idea but I also have a steam deck now for most linux things I do but yes you are right.
GPU passthrough might help?
If you don’t switch on SecureBoot, that can still be the truth.
Can you tell me more about what secure boot does in this correct? (Assuming this isn’t a joke)
If you don’t enable SecureBoot then you can’t install Win 11.
As a bonus, you won’t be able to install the latest Call of Duty or Battlefield titles either.
Okay but you should enable secure boot on any device you want to keep any level of private data on. It’s trivial to break into a device that doesn’t have it enabled if you can physically access it. Laptops especially should have secure boot enabled.
The thing is on desktop pcs… If someone got physical access to it you don’t want to… You got way bigger issues haha
I’d argue that you now have two major issues. Someone breaking into a house and stealing a desktop isn’t unheard of. Full disk encryption with secure boot deployed will save you the headache of also having your identity/bank account/cc info stolen a few days later.
I’d argue that 99,9% don’t use full disk encryption cause it’s Infact a performance degrading feature.
And there’s nothing to be stolen , all my passwords are in a password manager , all important accounts including the password manager have 2fa.
If someone isn’t a pw manager or 2fa it’s all their fault honestly.
… Secure boot has nothing to do with encryption and your data. Bitlocker can work without secure boot superuser.com/…/does-enabling-bitlocker-require-s…
I mean yeah that’s why I made the distinction in my comment… Without secure boot you’re still opening yourself up to a whole host of other attack vectors even if you have bitlocker enabled.
Yeah, but I might need to break into it to access it, e.g. if hardware dies, or Windows has a fit and breaks something.
This also why I don’t do whole disk encryption; it makes recovery impossible
You can work around it in both cases. SecureBoot will only prevent you from running non-signed boot loaders. If that breaks then you just turn off SecureBoot while you work on the issue (assuming SecureBoot failing isn’t due to a compromised boot loader) and the machine will boot normally minus any data stored in the TPM such as the encryption key. For the encryption key, this is something you are supposed to keep a copy of outside the TPM for scenarios like this. On Windows consumer PCs, this is stored in your Microsoft account or the place you specify when enabling it. For Azure or AD-joined PC’s this can be stored in Azure or AD.
The only ways SecureBoot and encryption will burn you are if there is data stored in the TPM that you don’t have a backup of or way of re-creating, or if the encryption headers on the drive are lost. That said, if you aren’t using a TPM some Windows features will break regardless and if the drive is so messed up that the encryption headers are lost then you’re probably back to backups anyway.
Except you technically can. Windows 11 registry allows for installation without secure boot and its called after the upgrade process, thats what things like rufus patch to allow it.
Now idk if secure boot has to be enabled for windows 10 to consider it upgrade ready, but its technically all in there
Call of Battle and Duty Field?! And I thought not installing Win11 was a great experience! I can’t wait to not buy and not play both of those games!
Thanks SecureBoot!
I remember!
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ed9f357f-b9ec-404f-aa5a-26b37db804ab.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4f-SVsAUoDw/maxresdefault.jpg">
<img alt="" src="https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/southpark/images/6/6c/Member-berries.png/revision/latest?cb=20171021111007">
The issue isn’t so much about the actual OS change, as it is about their dumb forced requirement of a TPM. A lot of perfectly fine PC’s don’t have one or don’t have it enabled, as it can cause headaches. If they dropped that requirement, a lot fewer people would care about the switch.
I’ve got an ROG B550E motherboard in my PC, built in July 2021. It’s perfectly fine, perfectly capable. Big ‘ole 3090 in it, plenty of ram… I have zero need to upgrade right now.
It has a firmware TPM option, but that involves doing stuff like updating the bios, configuring some stuff and runs the risk of potentially breaking something. Now, I’m willing to give that a go if push comes to shove, but your average consumer just doesn’t want to deal with that hassle.
Which means that a lot of folks are going to be running an unsupported OS or buying new PC’s when the old ones are still more than capable. You can guess what I think will happen…
Ah that makes sense. I didn’t know what TPM was until today. Surprised that wasn’t in the details in the new article to be honest. Or maybe it was but because I didn’t know what TPM is I didn’t make sense of it.
Microsoft Windows is going to face a challenge in the future with Linux because eventually it will be a bigger thing than Windows and if Windows is unable to change their model Microsoft will not be able to do anything about it. Hence why when Microsoft over a decade ago was faced with the challenge that they were a monopoly and instead of them giving half their stock to Linux, they gave it to Apple so that Apple would compete with Microsoft and they knew they had beaten them once in competition and they can more than easily do it again. Where as with Linux it would be too hard. Especially with the open source capabilities Linux has making it very hard to compete with once it gets too big.
If I can’t get my PC on 11 without hassle, I’m likely to switch to Linux anyway. I’ve beenhearing great things about Linux Mint for gaming. And I’ve owned a Steam Deck since release, so gaming on a Linux system really doesn’t scare me anymore.
And with the current trend of people wanting to take a but more control back from big tech, Microsoft very well might permanently lose customers to Linux. And once they make that switch, they’re not likely to switch back.
Nice! I will probably do that same but with steamos instead. Good luck!
I hope he wins.
Windows peaked with XP. 7 was alright. 8 was a free fall of a downward slide falloff.
Appified overly complicated slop and bloat filled garbage ever since.
Win 2k pro was best. Fight me;) I hated the fisher price look of XP.
Nah they peaked at NT4.0! Fight me! I remember using that for my dual core celeron system! Abit BP6 FTW.
(I agree with you about 2k, but I liked XP and loved the look of Vista so what do I know…)
Nah, they peaked at Windows for Workgroups… Bury me, Im that old lol.
You and your fancy workgroups! In my day we had DOS and we were happy!
Basic, dos and tomcat bbs
I started with DOS. Had my mind blown when I upgraded to DOS 3.
DirectX 3.5 only? IIRC.
It had classic themes available
Thank you for my belly laugh of the day. 😂
I liked Vista. Aero Glass was cool.
3.1
Nah win2k pro was really, really slow compared to xp
IDK I liked 7 pretty much as much as I like XP. For me it was 10 that was just alright.
My brother convinced me to switch to 11 when I built my most recent gaming desktop and I somewhat regret listening to him but I know dual booting is a waste of time for me and I’m not quite ready to make the full jump to Linux because my desktop has a 4070 Super. It’ll ahve to wait until my next PC. Fortunately, I don’t have the version of 11 with Recall pre-installed at least.
I use my Steam Deck more than my gaming desktop these days anyway.
Why does the 4070 super keep you from switching to Linux? I have a gaming PC with a 4070 and I dont really have issues. No more than I did with windows in general
Why is the 4070 an issue regarding linux? Nvidia drivers have come a long way since the beginning of the year, currently running modded cyberpunk on my 3070 Ti without issues.
@Liberal_Ghost@lemmy.zip
Performance is still noticeably worse. Based on some cursory research, the 4070 Super gets like ~20% less FPS on Bazzite compared to Windows on a 4070 Super and I tend to play high fidelity shooters on my desktop so frames per second matters.
Fair point. Do you know if they where using the open source driver for thr graphics card? Or Nvidia’s proprietary one? Because I’m on Fedora using the Nvidia driver and I dont notice that much of a fps drop. It is some, maybe 5-10%
@HalfSalesman@lemmy.world
That’s also my experience, and with experimental wayland and ntsync support in wine 10 it feels even smoother (but i don’t have numbers to back it up - maybe i’ll benchmark wine 9 & 10 parallel, if i do i append the info here)
I did not look that deep. Its not been important enough since again I mostly have been using my Deck more than my Desktop anyway.
Wayland on Nvidia has a lot of issues was the big one for me. I ended up selling my Nvidia card and bought an AMD card instead.
What AMD card did you get? I switched to Linux and want to drop Nvidia.
9070 XT, similar performance to a 5070 Ti. Needs kernel 6.13.5+ and Mesa 25+ but it’s been flawless for me on Arch using the CachyOS kernel.
Nvidia on modern Linux (Wayland) is garbage and I’m buying AMD next time.
Like seriously, people will try and tell you “oh you can install the proprietary driver easily now and they’ve come a long way”
Sure, but it’s still garbage. I can’t even full screen a video in Firefox without a it crashing and a bunch of apps simply refuse to work without shitty environment variable hacks to drop back to software rendering
I’m not a noob either, I’ve been using Linux as my primary OS since 2008
I just tried fullscreen youtube and it worked flawlessly, and i had a lot more luck than you with different apps. we can at least agree that it isn’t consistently stable depending on configuration, and i feel pretty lucky that my nobara installation is one of the happy ones.
They are a monopoly protected by patents. Completely unamerican philosophically.
Win 7 for me. It didn’t try to fix what wasn’t broken.
Win 11, like so many things today, feels like it’s just hostile towards users. They change shit for the sake of it, like where the fuck is My Computer? Why is it so bloody hard to find anything from the start menu, no I don’t want to search Bing for a settings menu thats in every other version since I can remember, no I don’t want be reminded every 3 days to give you my data for “customization” purposes.
I’m old enough to remember when MS said Windows 10 would be the last Windows and they’d just update it over time.
Kinda glad that wasn’t the case because those of us who’ve been using Windows 10 all this time would just end up with what Windows 11 is but masquerading as Win 10.
I’m more comfortable with being pushed back into the Linux pool and relearning how to swim those waters.
Having gone from 10 to 11 - it’s pretty much windows 10, at least to an average user like myself … I’m tech savvy enough for Linux but I prefer windows for gaming.
Have to say so far I’m pretty happy with windows 11 but I’m just a random guy who uses it to play video games and that’s about it on that PC so if you’re doing anything crazy under the hood I’m sure there’s some noticeable differences.
Hey, Microsoft said 10 was the last version of Windows…
It’s the last version of Windows I’ll ever install, so the statement was accurate but incomplete.
The last version I’ll ever install was 7, so I guess they’re back to lying!
7 was great, but 10 leveled out really fast and was amazing for a decade. Legit OS.
I assume the top-level takeaway is that we’re all getting pushed to Linux, but just on slightly varying timelines. :)
Yup. I gotta start figuring it out soon
Sometimes YOU have to make changes that you want to see. And not wait for corporations
Good, fuck ‘em.
The assumption that you’ll lose a lawsuit against a large corporation probably stops a lot of viable lawsuits from ever happening - good for him for giving it a go.
People will do ANYTHING but switch to linux, huh.
I’ve found that many people will go to great lengths to avoid learning anything new.
They want to be able to ignore their computers as much as possible, even considering the prospect of alternative software is taxing and upsetting for them.
I think that’s basically how Microsoft and Adobe are so successful, they bought and cheated their way into the default position, and now they can do whatever they want with no real repercussions.
The user wants to click on the same icons with the same names as before, sometimes it’s as simple as wanting the same name; if it’s not called ‘outlook’ they don’t want it, doesn’t matter how well it works.
So I’m partially on board with you.
HOWEVER, windows 11 is dog shit. It’s been over 2 years and is still broken. Missing many features that are available in 10, some super basic shit.
Don’t even get me started on teams/teams classic/teams new, outlook classic/outlook new (also dog shit, dragged a folder inside a folder and it fucking vanished. Had to disable “new” to get it back). Fuck new outlook. I feel like Microsoft is fragmented with what they want to do and not going anywhere, so we’re here with half broken paid app$.
Coupled with the fact 11 is really pushing ai crap, won’t run legit on decent hardware, people are tired of having to buy a new computer every four years. I’m still running an 8th gen, spent $2k+ when I made it and other than being able to play newer games, it doesn’t feel like a thing changed under the hood. I upgrade as needed, added a little more ram and recently got a 3070 GPU, but there is zero reason to replace my machine. Even though 8th gen is the cut off for TPM requirements, my point still stands.
I have several 8th gen dells I used as servers, no reason to replace those for an ad riddled operating system.
Wanting to change and being forced to upgrade are completely different things and I see both sides, having people learn something new and forcing it for “reasons” is bullshit.
I’m fairly techy have a technical job that involves programming, data, and implementation. And I’m still on Microsoft and stock Android. It’s really not that complicated for some of us. I’m not on my phone or home computer that much, I have a mile long “to do” list. I’d love to switch over, but it’s a super low priority. Even if it would only be a few hours, that’s a few hours I could be doing anything else.
Windows in particular I think gets overlooked as ‘good enough’, it’s only when you get into Linux that you really understand how far it has strayed from the light.
You don’t need to spend hours and hours to start, you can dip your toes in with WSL, maybe use a Linux VM for a few tasks that make your life easier at work. It’s not an all-or-nothing affair, but having proficiency in more than one operating system is great professional development regardless of your personal computing preferences.
Until Linux uses pretty pictures it won’t be a thing
Linux would find a larger audience if developers remembered that not every user is a power user.
My daily driver laptop, home servers, media center, NAS, etc are all Linux.
My gaming computer isn’t – as much as I would like it to be. There are certain things (particularly VR) that don’t want to work well in Linux.
I’m in exactly the same boat. Five linux machines in the house plus two windows gaming rigs, mine and my partners.
Which VR headset? Don’t have problem with Valve Index or Quests.
I bought a Mac laptop
Technically Unix now lol
Some key software I need to use doesn’t work on Linux, and is unlikely to be able to in the near future, sorry. I did use Linux for a while, mind you, and I more or less like it… but a computer is only useful if it runs the software you need to do the things you want to do with it.
I don’t want to downgrade to windows 11, but I’m going to be forced to. And to even do that I’m going to need to bypass the hardware authenticator, as I’m apparently ever so slightly behind their so-called minimum requirements, which aren’t really minimum requirements but just a push to get me to buy a new PC I don’t need.
Businesses are locked in and the people making the decisions aren’t IT people. I did the Win11 conversion at my last job and have been working on it at my current position. It might just be my social bubble, but the only people worried about Win10 is corpo.
I wish more people were willing to give Linux a shot but I also understand that for most of them its a matter of the devil you know versus the one you don’t. They don’t want to learn a new OS when they can just to do their banking and watch TikTok with what they have.
I only really use my laptop to DJ and you can’t run Rekordbox on Linux. I’d love to swap, but Linux doesn’t seem to do what I need it to do.
Never forget we were told Windows 10 would be the last version. That all updates from then on would be only to Windows 10.
This is my big beef. Last version. Sounded great. We’ve been betrayed.
Literally why I paid for a new version instead of… Finding other ways to install it.
That’s on us though for believing scumbag corporations won’t just straight up lie to sell stuff I suppose :(
That was one person who phrased something poorly and it was taken out of context. Sadly.
Come on, just leave Windows all together
They did say it would be the last version.
Anyone who bought Windows 10 expecting that to be true got scammed.
I hope the corporation has to pay trillions.