Peak Energy just shipped the US's first grid-scale sodium-ion battery (electrek.co)
from Gsus4@mander.xyz to technology@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 02:58
https://mander.xyz/post/35148992

cross-posted from: lemmy.bestiver.se/post/528970

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#technology

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partial_accumen@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 03:09 next collapse

This is big! Grid scale Sodium Ion battery technology is (on paper) the best candidate for cheap large scale electricity storage. The fact that this company is working on 9 pilot deployments mean that this will likely produce the real world results that the paper exercises promise.

There are SO MANY advantages of Sodium Ion battery tech for grid storage over everything else we’ve used so far (nearly all Lithium based).

Sodium Ion batteries:

  • don’t have as intense thermal management needs Lithium chemistries
  • don’t have the massive negative environmental impact for their source materials (because its a part of regular old table/sea salt)
  • doesn’t have the massive swings in capacity when operated in extreme hot or cold temperatures. Sodium Ion doesn’t care.

The only downsides to Sodium Ion is that the batteries are physically larger for the same amount of energy stored (which isn’t a problem for stationary storage), and the charging/discharging curves are not as linear as other chemistries (which again, isn’t an issue because these are purpose built applications where the curves can easily be managed by battery management systems).

Gsus4@mander.xyz on 02 Aug 03:15 next collapse

I love this too, I just hope they don’t use too much Phosphorous, because those reserves are limited too, maybe there are alternative designs once this gets going.

Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org on 02 Aug 03:58 next collapse

everything else we’ve used so far (nearly all Lithium based).

We have used water before lithium, and it isn’t bad at all.

Gsus4@mander.xyz on 02 Aug 04:03 next collapse

Pumped hydro?

redhat421@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 04:30 collapse

Also very good, but geographically limited.

Maestro@fedia.io on 02 Aug 06:49 collapse

And very destructive for the local environment

naeap@sopuli.xyz on 02 Aug 14:00 collapse

Not sure why you’re getting down voted, as you’re sadly correct here

Still better then many alternatives, but it’s not as environmental friendly as it’s advertised

partial_accumen@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 04:30 collapse

We have used water before lithium, and it isn’t bad at all.

Not so great in a flat dry desert though. Pump storage is great when there is lots of water and a naturally occurring elevation, but there’s lots of places on Earth that don’t have that, but do have energy to store.

Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org on 02 Aug 05:27 collapse

in a flat dry desert

Hopefully you are free not to live there…

Madagaskar_sky@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 06:36 collapse

Middle east would like a word with you.

rottingleaf@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 20:00 collapse

Middle-East involves plenty of mountainous areas, and the reason many of those are arid is because water, ahem, flows down.

Also in a flat dry desert one can replace pumping water up with raising heavy things up. I think. More wear though.

Madagaskar_sky@lemmy.world on 03 Aug 10:42 collapse

Not what I was replying to my dude.

empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 02 Aug 04:00 next collapse

I’m really excited about na-ion, if commercial BMS circuitry was available I would already have some for a few home automation and sensing projects because of their low temp performance alone. But I’ll have to spin up a custom implementation with an arduino or something and I don’t have that kind of skills lol.

yaroto98@lemmy.org on 02 Aug 04:12 next collapse

I would happily dedicate a corner of my garage for a big sodium ion battery.

Also, fun fact they can charge and discharge faster than lithium ion. Also, their chemistry doesn’t lead to spontaneous combustion. Perfect for a house backup.

bryndos@fedia.io on 02 Aug 07:47 collapse

I think it's the fire thing that is really their killer feature. So to speak.

Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 02 Aug 04:52 next collapse

Can we make them from desalination plants, in part? Or no? I don’t know the science for it.

Gsus4@mander.xyz on 02 Aug 05:05 collapse

Yeah, the brine is where various useful ions can be further extracted from. news.mit.edu/…/brine-desalianation-waste-sodium-h…

Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 02 Aug 07:52 collapse

It’s both amazing and hilarious that our sodium battery production is similar to modded Minecraft logic.

SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 03 Aug 02:00 collapse

Well, not too surprising, modded Minecraft chemistry is modeled after real life after all!

Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 03 Aug 02:02 collapse

Quite forward thinking of the Mekanism devs, then.

4am@lemmy.zip on 02 Aug 05:51 next collapse

Would container ships be a good application? Or too heavy/large?

dubyakay@lemmy.ca on 03 Aug 01:27 collapse

What about the environmental impact of degraded sodium ion batteries?

I’m not going to take sodium mining into account, as there are many ways that it can be extracted, with probably minimal impact, like salt evaporation ponds. I assume it’s less destructive than building a hydro dam.

Lexam@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 04:25 next collapse

That much salt is not going to be good for blood pressure.

BarbecueCowboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 02 Aug 04:31 next collapse

New warning label unlocked: Do not eat the Batteries.

BetaBlake@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 05:32 next collapse

You’re not supposed to eat the electricity

glitch1985@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 19:19 collapse

First off, you’re not my mother.

snoons@lemmy.ca on 02 Aug 11:14 collapse

Cow lick with kick

Womble@piefed.world on 02 Aug 06:45 next collapse

It would be nice to see a price/GWh of this (along with running costs, it says they save 1 Million per GWh, how much were the running costs before!?), but any improvement in battery tech is definitely a good thing.

Mihies@programming.dev on 02 Aug 06:58 collapse

Also the size of the thing and what happens to batteries after they die.

Cocopanda@lemmy.world on 02 Aug 07:22 next collapse

I work for a controller OEM that builds the brains for managing these systems. It’s cutting edge stuff.

Gsus4@mander.xyz on 02 Aug 08:54 collapse

The part that controls/balances the discharge profiles, right? Because sodium batteries have a more non-linear discharge pattern.

[deleted] on 02 Aug 23:32 collapse

.

shalafi@lemmy.world on 03 Aug 00:11 collapse

That the controller price or does it include the battery as well? What’s installation look like?

Cocopanda@lemmy.world on 03 Aug 05:15 collapse

Just the controller. We don’t supply or fabricate anything power wise. We just have the connector that does the brains of the power management. It talks through cellular.

MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip on 02 Aug 08:55 next collapse

But why US? Can’t store fracking oil in there.

Gsus4@mander.xyz on 02 Aug 09:02 collapse

Finally something the EU can invest those 600 billion in. Or buy it, like lots of EU startups were by FAANG companies years ago. Tramp says it’s dead tech, so it’s ok.

themurphy@lemmy.ml on 02 Aug 10:00 collapse

I honestly dont care who develops these kind of technologies, because it will spread.

The impact of these products are too important.

HulkSmashBurgers@reddthat.com on 02 Aug 15:59 collapse

I wonder which is saltier, oil companies or the batteries.