just_another_person@lemmy.world
on 01 Oct 14:58
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This is certainly part of OpenAI’s plan, and a warning shot to other user content-driven sites. An extortion play, if you will, which is business as usual now for fucks sake.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:09
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reddit is all cahoots with OPEN AI/googles own AI. im not surprised, its probably what led to thier massive ban waves, since they are using AI to overmoderate the whole site(indiscriminate bannings) they sold thier souls to 2 DEVILS.
Eat_Your_Paisley@lemmy.world
on 01 Oct 15:16
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mesamunefire@piefed.social
on 01 Oct 15:28
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heh I wonder if all the “old” content getting messed with and/or removed is causing issues with the algorithm/scraper.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 01 Oct 15:36
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For unauthorized scrapers? Definitely
For paid API usage? That tends to not be public for obvious reasons but, allegedly, people have, allegedly, done tests and found “deleted” content in the results.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 01 Oct 16:13
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Version control mother fucker, do you speak it?
But, in all seriousness: That is what they use for the comments. It is why a lot of the mass delete tools were “accidentally” undone during The Exodus. Because it was literally just rolling back. Theoretically there might be a limited number of revisions available but if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. Because imagine if A Brown Person wrote a message then edited it five times so that Chloe couldn’t alert Jack Bauer to who to torture
Just checked my old account again, and all edited content is still there, with “Fuck u/spez” appearing as the top comment in some posts that are like 12 years old
mesamunefire@piefed.social
on 01 Oct 15:41
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Ive heard the same but I haven’t seen real evidence anywhere, so im skeptical. But yes I agree, if they CAN get that data, it means the training data is better-ish….
It’s all relative I guess. I can see why the original GPT’s used the Reddit corpus for training. However I’ve always been a little sceptical about the quality of the training set in any social media given how much it exaggerates the extremes of people’s behaviour.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 01 Oct 16:14
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I mean… if the reason you left is because you didn’t want your data scraped then… the fediverse is one of the worst places to go? Because anyone can run a modified lemmy instance to pull everything through the tools specifically designed to do that.
Let alone just scraping websites that don’t have teams of big corporate lawyers.
What kinda of data would be valuable that people leave behind on Reddit? Personal information? Personally I don’t really do that when it comes to commenting, though Reddit probably knows where I live through my unsecured connection online. When it comes to comments or posts on Reddit, it’s not real data anyways because I always lie online.
Lucky_777@lemmy.world
on 01 Oct 16:08
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They were the architects of their own demise
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:10
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as soon as they went public everyone knew it was going to get worst, its also the same time they started banning people in massive purges.
calliope@retrolemmy.com
on 01 Oct 16:22
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Huh.
Does anyone else think that ChatGPT is still using the data, they’re just not referencing Reddit directly?
This is how you can tell Reddit’s $200+/share price is insane. Over 10% of its value dropped based on a different unprofitable company’s references to ingested content.
Yikes!!
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 01 Oct 16:34
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While I don’t agree with the reddit valuation to begin with…
that is actually how the stock market “should” work? Reddit is a company that, at its core, produces data to sell to other companies. If other companies choose to (say they are not going to) use that data, then the value of reddit drops. That is literally supply and demand.
If Stanley’s Sprockets’ sprockets are a vital part of iphones then Stanley’s Sprockets is going to be a very valuable company. If Apple changes to the other dude’s product, Stanley’s Sprockets has now lost a lot of value.
Reddit’s value is its ability to use bots to manipulate and distribute information. It’s just like Twitter, meta and all the other social media platforms.
BakerBagel@midwest.social
on 01 Oct 17:38
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Ok, so how does a shareholder benefit from that? My company that pays people to stomp on kittens at my kitten stomping factory has value in that in gives people jobs and controls the feral cat population, but it creates no profit for the shareholders.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 01 Oct 18:03
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The ads/manipulation does a thing that helps you attain profit or power. You want to manipulate what people see and pay for… so you pay reddit to allow you to mass deploy bots bypassing moderator levers. They have the community, you have the objective, you pay for the help of doing this and they probably have their own bot farms included.
They can even internally flag these entries as bots and use their AI partnerships to analyze what works on users and what doesn’t to trigger a specific response, and to avoid using techniques that get called out as bots.
They have their public ‘sponsored’ content, but I promise for big spenders they have a program that has no sponsorship callout. They probably brand it with nice fancy marketing terminology that makes it sound like you’re an angel doing god’s work by driving conversions or some stupid shit.
BakerBagel@midwest.social
on 01 Oct 21:53
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I understand that Reddit has value to an individual or small board that can control what is posted to reddit. What i am saying is that Reddit’s value is entirely in soft power and has no actual path to profitablity. If i am Condé Nast then i can benefit from owning reddit. But Reddit will never pay a dividend, so buying stock in the company is worthless unless you are convinced that some idiot will pay more for it down the road.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:12
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its useful as a propaganda tool, much like Xitter.
BakerBagel@midwest.social
on 02 Oct 11:44
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I agree. But propaganda tools typically aren’t publicly traded because they are a venture that requires a lot of expenses but being it little cash value, which is the entire point of the stock market.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social
on 02 Oct 14:46
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no actual path to profitablity
You don’t think reddit can make money from advertising?
BakerBagel@midwest.social
on 02 Oct 15:11
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It hasn’t been able to thus far, same as every other “free” social media site other than Facebook. The problem is the sheer scale of the data that these sites have to main makes their overhead costs insane. To make profit from those ad spaces would require those ads to be too expensive to justify to the companies. It would be like trying to operate the New Orleans Superdome purely on ad space. The rate would be way too high to for companies advertising to ever get a return on their investment. Reddit can run ads to subsidize their costs, but it will never be viable as a primary revenue stream for them.
Reddit shareholders also own a lot of shares in much more lucrative industries.
BakerBagel@midwest.social
on 01 Oct 21:57
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I didn’t ask about their other shares. I asked how Reddit’s soft power is able to actually benefit shareholders. I understand how it benefits Spez and those who make the actual decisions at reddit, but if I own 400 shares of Reddit, how do i actually benefit since Reddit will never pay a dividend since it will never actually be profitable
Yeah reddit’s a weird one. Their financials, aside from this year, are also horrendous. Not sure what value they really bring.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 01 Oct 21:16
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Companies pay for API access so profits go up and stock value go up.
I assume the reddit stock doesn’t pay dividends based on profits. But if you bought for 10 dollars and now it is 500 dollars? You can sell some of that stuck to people hoping it will go up to 1000 dollars for a solid profit. And so forth.
And if it DOES pay dividends (some kinds of stocks do) then a percentage of those profits are directly sent to the share holders based on how many shares they have.
BakerBagel@midwest.social
on 01 Oct 21:47
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I understand how stocks work. Reddit stock is just a legitimizes greater fool scam as no one will ever get a dividend or see any return in their investment short of managing to sell the stock for more than they bought it. Reddit is absolutely worthless in an strictly economic sense. It’s value is soley in societial and political ways
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 01 Oct 21:54
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see any return in their investment short of managing to sell the stock for more than they bought it
So… it is a stock that doesn’t pay dividends? Like… that is what stocks are.
BakerBagel@midwest.social
on 01 Oct 22:04
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Which will only actually ever benefit anyone that owns massive amounts of the stock. Reddit has few tangible assets other than their data, which is of questionable value at best. It’s basically like owning stock in a piblic library
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 01 Oct 22:15
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Homie? I assume you are just looking to hear “reddit bad” and… it is.
But if you are actually attempting to discuss things in good faith? You are just describing stocks and you should REALLY educate yourself on the subject if you ever intend to invest beyond retirement and mutual funds… which most people shouldn’t in the first place but that is an even bigger tangent.
BakerBagel@midwest.social
on 02 Oct 11:56
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I am looking at it froma purely financial standpoint. The inky thing Reddit really produces is semi-anonymous data that is tied to an email address. The quality of that data is iffy at best, while they have massive expenses just to keep the site operating. They can charge for their API calls, but they will never be able to use that to generate actual profit since no one will ever pay for it at that price point.
Something like Reddit or twitter are useful if they are owned by powerful individuals or corporations that wish to influence the public. It is worthless as a strictly financial vehicle because it produces no profit and has assets that are not not equal to the cost of maintain them. You would only buy stock in reddit in the hopes that some billionaire thinks they can do a better job running it than Elon Musk did with twitter. Otherwise reddit stock is just a volatile place to park your cash in the hope that you can sell it for more later.
Which takes me back to my original comment about the kitten stomping factory. It gives value to a select group of people with a specific aim, but it is worthless as an investment vehicle because it owns little, produces nothing, and has massive liabilities. If you want to exert power and influence, it’s useful. If you only care about making money, it’s useless. People who buy and sell stock are mostly only interested in making money.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 02 Oct 13:39
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I am looking at it froma purely financial standpoint.
Then let’s do that.
Reddit has three official and one implied revenue streams.
Of the official, we have:
Ad sales. This is where most “user data” actually comes into play and is the idea of building a profile of each user that can be used to put them into categories for targeted ads. That might be a simple as “likes video games, hates women, curious about learning to pee while sitting down”. Or it might be “doesn’t realize that guy at the bar took off the condom and is now pregnant”. This is demonstrably profitable and doesn’t seem to be effected.
The next is people buying reddit premium because they are idiots.
The last official oneis the actual topic of this thread. Reddit sells API access to, among others, companies training LLMs. ChatGPT has, allegedly, stopped using them. Thus, one of their major sources of revenue dried up and their stock dropped as a result.
As for the rest:
Otherwise reddit stock is just a volatile place to park your cash in the hope that you can sell it for more later.
Ah, so you DO know what the definition of a stock is. You just refuse to accept it because the word “reddit” is involved.
The vast majority of stocks are horrible to even consider purchasing as an individual. A general rule of thumb is the only ones you should even consider buying are those with dividends where you just buy a few shares and every couple years check your investment account and transfer the excess to your savings.
The rest you rely entirely on mutual funds (and similar). Where the idea is that an investment group has a large pool of money and they try to stay ahead of minor fluctuations and often outright bet against themselves. So you might have some funds earmarked at assuming reddit will go up and other funds that take the Oracle announcement as a hint that OpenAI spending on Reddit might decrease and sell the stocks ahead of time to buy shares in coca cola instead or whatever.
But the thing to understand is that that is happening to basically every single stock. Because the fundamental idea of the stock market is about leaving others holding the bag.
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
on 01 Oct 18:02
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No, it’s value is that users have up voted and down voted good and bad data. This gives the AI training data that has been crowd sourced by humans. Bots manipulating votes would destroy the value of Reddit.
Bots have been controlling votes on Reddit for years. It costs about $50 to get to the front page of Reddit.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
on 01 Oct 21:15
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Which is also generally very detectable (if you actually care) and is generally used to push (monetized) social media and not the answer to “what is the difference between normal and merino wool?” and so forth.
The vast majority of the “user” interaction and memes is not the product (at play. it IS useful for societal manipulation but there are better platforms for that). It is all those useful questions and answers that people get pissy about folk deleting the answers to.
Because people, generally, weren’t searching for team edward or jacob reddit but instead the fuck is a renesme reddit or LED versus fluourescent bulbs reddit and so forth. And the community labeling of the latter is generally REALLY good.
Things DO get messy when the question becomes best synthetic boxer briefs reddit but… it is incredibly rare for an astro turfing campaign to be strong enough to get a genuinely bad product “on top”. You tend to just get an overly expensive branded white label in the top slot which may actually be identical to the “real” best one anyway. But considering you are relying on human opinion regardless, that isn’t far off of what you were gonna get without said astroturfing.
As a user of the website for many years it’s entirely obvious that a majority of the website is gamed (besides its niche corners). Reddit’s bot prevention mechanisms just fuck VPN users - they are wholly inadequate.
That thread is evidence of a organized bot campaign that they had 12 days to clean up (and didn’t). It’s naive to believe that the rest of the website isn’t similarly (and less obviously) affected by bots - with vote manipulation still standing.
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
on 01 Oct 23:16
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Okay, but it is those niche subs that are the most valuable.
Are you somebody invested financially in Reddit? Genuine question.
Those niche subreddits can also have their moments, too. Maybe it’s not bots, but there are plenty of shills that have been caught in various niche subreddits I’ve frequented over the years (thanks to unpaid moderators).
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 00:24
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No, I’m not. I don’t care at all if they’re successful or go under.
Sure, but again it’s not likely to be most. You don’t seem to realize how hard it is to get data that is already classified. That stuff is gold to people developing AI. Most of the work in data science is cleaning data and getting it into a usable form.
It’s noise, a very large part of it. Reddit is financially motivated to make the data appear as if it is signal. It isn’t - they have taken extremely minimal steps to ensure actual human participation.
This doesn’t matter to AI companies, but it only warps that technology more and more. AI is a sinking ship with current methodologies. Reddit will die when the AI bubble bursts and those involved with Reddit already cashed out enough to be filthy rich.
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 00:42
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At this point we’re just speculating. We don’t have evidence either way of its mostly good or mostly bad data.
If you can land me a gig engaging with back end data from Reddit in a neutral capacity, it’d likely be pretty easy for a layman like me to confirm that it’s largely noise. The AI companies buying data are getting scammed and you are free to remain neutral or plainly disagree with my assessment in the absence of concrete data that is publicly obtainable.
No company is immune to bots and inorganic engagement, least of all Reddit with the strategies employed.
FlexibleToast@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 01:43
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You keep trying to throw out all the data because some is bad. I don’t think these companies would be paying that much for all bad data. You seem to really want to justify some bias you have. It’s really weird.
Reddit is presumably the only party with the ability to determine which data/interaction is truly legitimate or isn’t.
I have a mostly neutral opinion on AI/LLMs, but I have a negative assessment of the companies driving it unsustainably. They are able to pay big money because AI is where money is flowing. When these actors crash the economy with their hubris, please write back to me - maybe I won’t seem so weird at that point.
Meta/OpenAI openly pirating everything they can to train their LLMs is a good example of how data hungry these AI/etc. companies are.
Is it plausible that companies request that Reddit narrows down data e.g. by demographic, geographic location, or likelihood of being a real person and request that data for purchase? Sure, but the LLMs seemingly require all data that exists that these companies can get their hands on - I highly doubt with the scale of data being consumed (and data theft being committed) that the big players care too much about Reddit data being tainted. If anything, it might even be desirable to them.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:13
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havnt they already destroyed the value of reddit, the bots already have massive hordes of downvoting/voting going on.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:11
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ability to allow bot propaganda to infest the subreddits more easily(especially politics and news)
Yes, but Oracle’s stock skyrocketed based on the unprofitable OpenAI promising to buy >100B worth of AI data center space from Oracle. Nvidia stock also surged on the news, since Oracle builds those data centers with Nvidia chips
Obviously OpenAI doesn’t have the money to pay Oracle themselves, so Nvidia has helpfully given them the money
So now we have an incredibly large cyclic corporate dependency of money from Nvidia -> OpenAI -> Oracle, then back to Nvidia. Definitely not a financial disaster waiting to happen
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
on 01 Oct 19:51
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They haven’t even spent the fucking money yet. It’s just announcements of intentions, with a fraction of that $100B in outlays. Nobody seems to want to say who gets to be the one holding the $100B at the end of it, either.
Presumably they’ll all just do a stock swap and tell their vendors “We’re good for it, check’s in the mail”?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
on 01 Oct 19:49
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This is how you can tell Reddit’s $200+/share price is insane.
Well, that and the P/E is 180. Typical target P/E on a stock is 15-20, depending on your anticipation of its growth. But we’re expected to believe Reddit’s earnings will be 9x their current income in… some nebulous amount of time?
Like, its silly to get excited about a company this hyperinflated seeing a tiny slide off its new peak. But also, you can’t help be bearish on a firm this flimsy.
The entire stock market has become a meme stock pyramid scheme. No price makes sense; it’s all glorified gambling making life on this planet worse for most living things.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 02 Oct 10:35
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Well, I said “try … sometime”, but also… greasy foods are to be particularly avoided when one has a flu?
I… its not that I don’t believe that is a thing that does or could make sense, I’ve just never heard of that before.
Also, you can prepare chorizo, potatoes and scrambled eggs in ways that are not as greasy, sure they are still greasier than many other things, but you don’t have to do it in maybe, typical street vendor or highly rapid restaurant fashion, with grease dripping out like a cheap pizza slice at a bar.
A few have. But when it happens people just start frequenting alternative communities. The good karma flows like water through the easiest path. So when an admin or a mod says they find the term bro offensive, people just unsub and find a better community.
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 02 Oct 05:37
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Bro thats so nice
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:15
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its pretty hard to get power mods here, since you isolate and sequester them by defederating, or block thier content. on reddit, you can get subreddit banned(mods), and sitewide banned(admins)
NoodlePoint@lemmy.world
on 01 Oct 23:48
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Must be the AI profiling system and how it flags anyone even remotely talking about POTUS.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:15
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im not surprised if the filters is looking for any “anti-trump” comments, they probably will ignore certain bots and not users.
NoodlePoint@lemmy.world
on 01 Oct 23:47
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That’s what pandering to the bigger techbros spez gets.
Being there stopped being fun ever since the shits started running a massive profile-and-purge program powered by fucking AI, as even casually mentioning violence against right-wingers or POTUS and his merry chucklefucks gets your account flagged for banning. That’s why there’s now a chilling effect.
All my accounts were banned except one, because I used a different email address for that one. Their “AI” isn’t as advanced as they want you to think. They literally just track you by email and IP.
NoodlePoint@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 00:21
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Their profiling system is based on content in the form of posts and comments, and they used AI to build it up in addition to user-submitted reports determining one’s character – and overall ideological alignment. Mods and admins would then use that information to determine if you are a candidate for banning.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:21
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mines was the same, until April the final account got banned. I heard early on in the year, that when it gives you the message “your account has been suspended for suspicious activity, change your password”, when i did that the ban was lifted. they fixed that later on. im guessing its thier way of asking for your password to fish out a pattern to ban you with(like fingerprinting,browser, desktop specs.
themachinestops@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 02 Oct 05:50
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I wonder why people on worldnews are not banned. 🤔
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:24
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israeli propaganda, as long as your pro-israeli or anti-russian you are free. last i recieved a 7day ban for critcizing benajamin as the instigator of the war.
I got my reddit ban for replying to someone in world news. Their comment was saying spain should declare war on israel. I forget why, this before the flotilla though.
I got banned for saying that was unlikely as israel is a nuclear power.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:20
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you dont even have to mention anything you can just get banned for creating a new account, or firing up an years old account, since they will consider those as bots. it happens randomly though. so much so, the shadowban sub had so many of these bans because they got banned for little reason.(besides the one that have multiple accounts get shadowbanned).
they started limiting the amount of time the shadowban questions stay open to silence any discussion of it.
etherphon@piefed.world
on 02 Oct 01:29
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Wasted 15 years on that site to be banned for one fucking comment, burn baby burn.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 01:40
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Same. My comment was “fuck trump and Obama” arguing about using drones to order civilians abroad. Do you remember what your violent advocation was?
etherphon@piefed.world
on 02 Oct 01:45
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For wishing an old man would have a heart attack and leave the world peacefully.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:28
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Deleting your posts was a waste of time. Chances are likely that it is archived on their end.
Reddit has been paying close attention to behavior patterns of banned users and users they wouldn't want on their platform. It's likely they've gotten your posting imprint and just give you the comfort of thinking you've deleted your posts.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:32
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deleting your account also wont stop them from finding your new accounts, they mostly archived that as well. they look at browser fingerprinting, device, device components, time zone discrepancy, browser size and VERSION, resolution,etc. if you use any paid service/trial service that can spoof any of these above and they arnt the correct versions, they can detect that.
and then theres the warming up period with new accounts(like not posting, reporting, or upvoting too fast after account creation)
Fyrnyx@kbin.melroy.org
on 02 Oct 06:41
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As far as I know, they use things called Evercookies and it's been a thing now too. If you have an Evercookie, then it won't really matter what browser you use or even if you clean the cache and history. You have to deep scrub your system and practically all traces of your browser to even get rid of those.
And even so, basic networking is a no brainer when they can just flag your IP and it won't even matter how many times you've done that process.
I discovered the other night that I couldn’t even browse Reddit anonymously with my VPN active.
Fyrnyx@kbin.melroy.org
on 02 Oct 07:00
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I don't know then. I can browse Reddit just fine and I'm not using a VPN. It is interacting with the content and commenting I can't do because auto-shadowban.
I can browse when I turn the VPN off. I no longer have an account nor the desire to interact with it’s content any way, but I do like to keep up with a few subreddits that have little to no content here.
The absolute degradation of the site is appalling. And most of the comments read like they’re written by children, because I’m assuming most of them are.
The absolute stupidity of everything on the site is flabberghasting.
Oh yeah, since I’ve been on Lemmy, it’s really highlighted just how vacuous the majority of the discourse is on Reddit. I assumed it was just mostly dumb kids, but just accepted it as the nature of all social media these days. It’s so much more grown up here, for the most part.
There were moments when it intensified suddenly. Most recently when their stock was about to go public.
sacredfire@programming.dev
on 02 Oct 09:46
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That there are so many ways to store data on a browser (including exploits) and that they expose so much information about your physical device is a big part of the problem. Even barring that, there are additional ways they can fingerprint a user. While any one thing might not be telling, when you take all of them in combination, it gets frighteningly accurate how easy it is for them to know exactly who you are.
unexpected@forum.guncadindex.com
on 02 Oct 08:14
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They certainly can. Do you have evidence that suggests they are doing that?
krooklochurm@lemmy.ca
on 02 Oct 09:51
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You can download everything posted on Reddit prior to the great api ban in a torrent. So yeah it’s still out there.
They were archived as they restored them several times. But I kept the account and every time they restored them, I used software to go in and wipe them back out. They’re still not visible on the front end to this day. Maybe they’ll do something AI with them, but they don’t show up in Google search anymore.
I suggested drawing in chalk on the street outside of the governor’s mansion, to protest the GIANT chalk Christ she had commissioned across the driveway to celebrate Easter one year.
It wasn’t even a serious call to action.
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 02 Oct 05:31
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Mine was “the german train system organisation should be burned down and redone anew” and “sprich deutsch du hurensohn”
RiverRabbits@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 02 Oct 06:38
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Was it your plan to hit em with the left right politics punch, or…?
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 02 Oct 07:37
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No it was under a postof news that the CEO again got raised while the trains were delaid heavier than ever and that a lot of bureaucracy holds it back. Its not politics. Litterly just we need to redo how to organise our trains!
RiverRabbits@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 02 Oct 11:23
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Well, everything is politics.
But I was more wondering about the “sprich deutsch” Part - that’s usually more of a racist thing, and therefore right wing politics. But if you don’t see public transport as political you might be right-wing overall?
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 02 Oct 11:44
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…are we now just connecting things to put everyone in right corner?
God i hate online people…
Guess being against corperates, for self reliance, public owner ship, pro a european state and untouchable democracy, and so on, is now “right wing”.
“Sprich deutsch” in litterly ich_iel is litterly the norm! Thats the joke! Everything is worded german. Guess such is now “right wing”.
“Everything is politics” omfg. Yeah nah. Thats enought Internet for this month, and it only started. Crazy!
RiverRabbits@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 02 Oct 12:57
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bro just skipped the “usually” part and made a rant against things being judged politically.
I think the “everything has to be written in German” part of ich_iel is also establishing a rather nationalist online culture through linguistic homogeny and illegibility to outsiders. So, yeah, you may not want to recognize the impact your words may have, but it’s clear to many others.
It’s a meme on German language subreddits when Americans shit up the place in English.
RiverRabbits@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 03 Oct 05:55
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Yeah, I got that context now, which I also accounted for with the “usually” qualifier.
I still think it builds an attitude that is toxic to outsiders and can potentially push someone into a right-wing position. I have witnessed first hand how someone fell down a fascist rabbit hole via online places touting language superiority.
Mine was telling someone it was unlikely that spain would declare war on israel, it being a nuclear nation…
Banned for ‘glorifying violence.’
whereyaaat@lemmings.world
on 02 Oct 02:31
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I could never understand why people cared about their social media accounts.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 02:44
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if you start having a social network within a social media, a ban can hurt.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:35
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especially a sitewide ban preventing you from making a new account, of which they dont tell you the offense.
Fyrnyx@kbin.melroy.org
on 02 Oct 05:35
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Because whether you like it or not, social media is the easy-track to connect with people of all varying degrees and connect through common interests and even ideals. It's a lot easier than in the 2000s and 1990s when all you've had was an e-mail and probably chat room hopping. You just had to know someone else's e-mail like you would have to know someone's number to call them, that's how it worked.
With social media, you can just breeze through friend lists and comb over searches to find friends and everything far easier. It's easier to connect with people that way than ever before. And losing out on that, can sting.
I sometimes wished it wasn't that way, but the people have largely decided we needed something more than just writing e-mails to eachother.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:34
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probably some have ties to smaller communities of specific category(not news or politics), like your into tech, or cars, or CARD GAMES, or console games. or specific discussions. i had identification of “things/plants” that i now cant access. or discussion of a condition(not to find a diagnosis, but your experiences)
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
on 02 Oct 06:25
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i think people were shocked that all thier accounts were banned simulataneously, despite some of them not participating in the same subs, around the same time. they just went after every account in your ip address,device or browser. even if time has passed that a subreddit ban has been lifted in your old accounts. the site filters/AI doesnt take that into account, and i suspect its intentional.
i noticed reddit is very wary of browser forks now too(google, firefox forks), theres a reason they dont like brave(because it hides your fingerprints by default)
Thanks haha, I was never really rah rah into reddit itself but it had a lot of cool niche subs for hobbies and such and that's where I spent most of my time not even in the default or political subs.
i got nuked right after some dummy account asked if i want to add a new mod on my sub. a couple of days later - voila - i’m actually a malicious bot boo this bot motherfucker. that was suspicious and for what - i’m literally dropping read/watch later shit
the fact that neither Musk nor none of his cronies ever get comeuppance for that tells you everything you need to know about the “fairness” of the “system”.
Cassanderer@thelemmy.club
on 02 Oct 11:00
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It is more disaffected people than nazis. At least the places I was at there. The site wide moderation is pretty fucked in favor of powerful interests, including Nazis however. They like to chase off real people that are driving engagement in favor of the legions of influence agents with their bot accounts.
Right, and if the moderation allows Nazi ideology to run rampant, you have a Nazi town. Especially when it’s all mostly bots spewing Nazi talking points anyway.
Refusing to fight hate speech is tantamount to supporting it.
Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 11:27
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Nazi cucks at the moment.
stringere@sh.itjust.works
on 02 Oct 13:55
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Just realized I was posting a reddit habit on a lemmy thread about reddit…
As someone who around when shitredditsays was the bogeyman, always has been.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 06:51
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Downvoted because this isn’t news. It’s clickbaity nonsense which has no bearing on anything real.
TheObviousSolution@lemmy.ca
on 02 Oct 06:57
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Does Reddit stock pay dividends or offer shareholder voting? Is most of it at least hell by their owners, giving at least a financial interest to having its value affected? Then it might as well be Yet Another Crypto Scam, in which case it isn’t really going to affect Reddit because they’ve probably already cashed out.
What people don’t realize is that the stock market is largely based off of on speculation on who’s going to buy or sell when, the articles that tie it directly to how the company performing are basically fortune tellers either telling their customers what they want to hear or catering to their customers by manipulating how their readers will behave.
People use belief in the value of money to illustrate how crypto has value. The stock market is a far better analogy, and there are plenty of confidence scams to go along with it as well.
notgivingmynametoamachine@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 11:02
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Good. Nazi sympathizing shithole deserves nothing but the worst. Fuck spez and every complicit modgoloid and SSAdmin.
stringere@sh.itjust.works
on 02 Oct 13:54
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I don’t care about their stock value but the situation fells so weird. So chatgpt refers to reddit less, and that makes reddit stock value fall. This really shows how much of the share value is pure hype and how much of “the economy” is pure manupulation of numbers instead of actual value.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 12:01
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How decoupled stocks are from reality or value. It’s bizarre.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 12:47
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Tesla is “larger” than all other car companies combined when they’re virtually always “delayed” on actually shipping product. We live in bizarro world. Your livelihood is a single cell in a giant spreadsheet full of completely made-up numbers.
The thing that baffles me on that one is that it doesn’t stand up on its own terms. None of Tesla’s tech in 2025 is ahead of its competitors, and they’ve become so toxic as a brand that most top tier engineers don’t even want to work there.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
on 03 Oct 08:44
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The market can stay fascist longer then you can stay solvent.
That’s actually quite easy to explain. Reddits entire monetary value (or at least a very large portion) depends on how relevant it is as platform to mine user interactions - to use as training material for AI.
Reddit getting references less is a sign that the models, or the owning companies, value reddit data less compared to before.
the fundamental duty of every CEO of every high-growth tech company: explaining how his company will continue to grow. These growth stories are key, because growth stocks trade at a huge premium relative to the stocks of “mature” companies.
devolution@lemmy.world
on 02 Oct 12:00
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The fact that any AI company thought to train their LLM on the answers of Reddit users speaks to a fundamental misunderstanding of their own product (IMO)
LLMs aren’t programmed to give you the correct answer. They’re programmed to give you the most pervasive/popular answer on the assumption that most of the time that will also happen to be the right one.
So when you’re getting your knowledge base from random jackasses on Reddit, where a good faith question like “What’s the best way to get get gum out of my childs hair” get’s two two good faith answers, and then a few dozen smart-ass answers that gets lots of replies and upvotes because they’re funny. Guess which one your LLM is going to use.
People (and apparently even the creators themselves) think that an LLM is actually cognizent enough to be able to weed this out logically. But it can’t. It’s not an intelligence…it’s a knowlege agreggator. And as with any aggregator, the same rule applies
garbage in, garbage out
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works
on 02 Oct 16:09
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Thats why I have stopped calling it ai. Its a dumbass buzzword just like cloud, that tech bros like to use but cant explain (or blockchain).
Its llms, and image generators/OCR (which has been around for decades), Using complex markov chains and a fuck ton of graphics cards. NOT AI. NOT AI.
I’ve had to start calling it AI because most people don’t know what LLMs are, and noone cares to go through the explanation, including myself.
I’m afraid that, as these things go, AI has gained a new meaning by popular use, rather than the original meaning of the acronym.
No point fighting it anymore.
Maybe we just need to adjust and start saying GAI (generative ai). It has a nice ring to it too.
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works
on 02 Oct 22:21
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If people are so dumb they dont even know what an llm is, they have no business using any “ai” products. Too bad we cant ban dumb people from using tech that will make them dumber.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works
on 02 Oct 21:36
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I use the term “inference machine”
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 02 Oct 23:04
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It is AI, along with a bunch of optimization algorithms, statistical decision trees (probably used in adaptive AI in games), etc. AI is a field in computer science that includes a ton of things many wouldn’t consider AI.
Basically, if the solution doesn’t come from direct commands but instead comes from some form of learning process, it’s probably AI.
It’s not “general AI”, but it is in the field of AI.
enbipanic@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 03 Oct 06:37
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I would argue we need to go back to Machine Learning.
The field is machine learning, generative machine learning etc.
This rebrand to AI is doing nothing but confusing people and building investor hype
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Oct 11:28
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Back? Machine Learning has always been a subfield of artificial intelligence since it all started in the 1950s or so. The end goal is to create general AI, and each field in AI is considered a piece of that puzzle, including LLMs.
enbipanic@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 03 Oct 15:49
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Also fair.
I find the term machine learning more honest than artificial intelligence
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
on 03 Oct 16:23
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It’s more specific, sure, but there’s nothing dishonest about using the same terminology that has been used for almost 100 years.
The disconnect is that average people have a different understanding of the term than is used in computer science, probably because of sci-fi films and whatnot. When I hear “AI,” I think of the CS term, because that’s my background, but when my family hears “AI,” they think of androids and whatnot like in Bicentennial Man.
I don’t know how to square that circle. Neither group here is wrong, but classifying something like ChatGPT as “AI,” while correct, is misinterpreted by the public, who assume it’s doing more than it is.
The main thing that AI has shown, is how much bullshit we subconsciously filter through every day without much effort. (Although clearly some people struggle a lot more with distinguishing between bullshit and fact, considering how much politicized nonsense has taken hold.)
If I were to google how to get gum out of my child’s hair and then be directed to that same reddit post. I’d read through it and be pretty sure which were jokes and which were serious; we make such distinctions, as you say, every day without much effort.
LLMs simply don’t have that ability. And the number of average people who just don’t get that is mind-boggling to me.
I also find it weirdly dystopian that, if you sum that up, it kind of makes it sound like in order for an LLM to make the next step towards A.I. It needs a sense of humour. It needs the ability to weed through when the information it’s digging from is serious, or just random jack-asses on the internet.
Which is turning it into a very very Star Trek problem.
What it needs most of all, is a fairly complete intuitive model of how the world works. LLMs only have book knowledge. They have no body, perception or experience. I think that’s incredibly limiting.
I just deleted my Reddit account of 6 years. Just found Lemmy today and joined up, this is my first post :)
Its obvious when you watch the way the LLM interacts, its tone exactly encompasses the average Reddit user and post, half-baked karma whoring … You’re absolutely right!
threaded - newest
This is certainly part of OpenAI’s plan, and a warning shot to other user content-driven sites. An extortion play, if you will, which is business as usual now for fucks sake.
reddit is all cahoots with OPEN AI/googles own AI. im not surprised, its probably what led to thier massive ban waves, since they are using AI to overmoderate the whole site(indiscriminate bannings) they sold thier souls to 2 DEVILS.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer company
Buncha self absorbed cliched weirdos over there anyway
Good, hope it crashes.
Fuck Reddit and Fuck Spez.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/96fe15e9-5b3e-41f4-8e80-b738f63ee180.jpeg">
heh I wonder if all the “old” content getting messed with and/or removed is causing issues with the algorithm/scraper.
For unauthorized scrapers? Definitely
For paid API usage? That tends to not be public for obvious reasons but, allegedly, people have, allegedly, done tests and found “deleted” content in the results.
That’s why I edited everything before deleting it.
I did this too but reddit reverted everything back to how it was and undeleted my account
Looks like me too. Time for a cease and desist.
Version control mother fucker, do you speak it?
But, in all seriousness: That is what they use for the comments. It is why a lot of the mass delete tools were “accidentally” undone during The Exodus. Because it was literally just rolling back. Theoretically there might be a limited number of revisions available but if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. Because imagine if A Brown Person wrote a message then edited it five times so that Chloe couldn’t alert Jack Bauer to who to torture
I edited everything before deleting it, double-checked it was still deleted periodically, and it all got restored sometime earlier this year.
Just checked my old account again, and all edited content is still there, with “Fuck u/spez” appearing as the top comment in some posts that are like 12 years old
Ive heard the same but I haven’t seen real evidence anywhere, so im skeptical. But yes I agree, if they CAN get that data, it means the training data is better-ish….
But we are still on this site for a reason :)
It’s all relative I guess. I can see why the original GPT’s used the Reddit corpus for training. However I’ve always been a little sceptical about the quality of the training set in any social media given how much it exaggerates the extremes of people’s behaviour.
I mean… if the reason you left is because you didn’t want your data scraped then… the fediverse is one of the worst places to go? Because anyone can run a modified lemmy instance to pull everything through the tools specifically designed to do that.
Let alone just scraping websites that don’t have teams of big corporate lawyers.
What kinda of data would be valuable that people leave behind on Reddit? Personal information? Personally I don’t really do that when it comes to commenting, though Reddit probably knows where I live through my unsecured connection online. When it comes to comments or posts on Reddit, it’s not real data anyways because I always lie online.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3c2ed72c-53e1-4efb-92d1-e9bd6a2ffcd0.gif">
They were the architects of their own demise
as soon as they went public everyone knew it was going to get worst, its also the same time they started banning people in massive purges.
Huh.
Does anyone else think that ChatGPT is still using the data, they’re just not referencing Reddit directly?
This is how you can tell Reddit’s $200+/share price is insane. Over 10% of its value dropped based on a different unprofitable company’s references to ingested content.
Yikes!!
While I don’t agree with the reddit valuation to begin with…
that is actually how the stock market “should” work? Reddit is a company that, at its core, produces data to sell to other companies. If other companies choose to (say they are not going to) use that data, then the value of reddit drops. That is literally supply and demand.
If Stanley’s Sprockets’ sprockets are a vital part of iphones then Stanley’s Sprockets is going to be a very valuable company. If Apple changes to the other dude’s product, Stanley’s Sprockets has now lost a lot of value.
Reddit produces nothing. They dupe their users into doing that. Which seem to largely be bots now.
Reddit’s value is its ability to use bots to manipulate and distribute information. It’s just like Twitter, meta and all the other social media platforms.
Ok, so how does a shareholder benefit from that? My company that pays people to stomp on kittens at my kitten stomping factory has value in that in gives people jobs and controls the feral cat population, but it creates no profit for the shareholders.
The ads/manipulation does a thing that helps you attain profit or power. You want to manipulate what people see and pay for… so you pay reddit to allow you to mass deploy bots bypassing moderator levers. They have the community, you have the objective, you pay for the help of doing this and they probably have their own bot farms included.
They can even internally flag these entries as bots and use their AI partnerships to analyze what works on users and what doesn’t to trigger a specific response, and to avoid using techniques that get called out as bots.
They have their public ‘sponsored’ content, but I promise for big spenders they have a program that has no sponsorship callout. They probably brand it with nice fancy marketing terminology that makes it sound like you’re an angel doing god’s work by driving conversions or some stupid shit.
I understand that Reddit has value to an individual or small board that can control what is posted to reddit. What i am saying is that Reddit’s value is entirely in soft power and has no actual path to profitablity. If i am Condé Nast then i can benefit from owning reddit. But Reddit will never pay a dividend, so buying stock in the company is worthless unless you are convinced that some idiot will pay more for it down the road.
its useful as a propaganda tool, much like Xitter.
I agree. But propaganda tools typically aren’t publicly traded because they are a venture that requires a lot of expenses but being it little cash value, which is the entire point of the stock market.
You don’t think reddit can make money from advertising?
It hasn’t been able to thus far, same as every other “free” social media site other than Facebook. The problem is the sheer scale of the data that these sites have to main makes their overhead costs insane. To make profit from those ad spaces would require those ads to be too expensive to justify to the companies. It would be like trying to operate the New Orleans Superdome purely on ad space. The rate would be way too high to for companies advertising to ever get a return on their investment. Reddit can run ads to subsidize their costs, but it will never be viable as a primary revenue stream for them.
Reddit shareholders also own a lot of shares in much more lucrative industries.
I didn’t ask about their other shares. I asked how Reddit’s soft power is able to actually benefit shareholders. I understand how it benefits Spez and those who make the actual decisions at reddit, but if I own 400 shares of Reddit, how do i actually benefit since Reddit will never pay a dividend since it will never actually be profitable
The people in power don’t care about people with a few shares. You can sell all your shares right now and nobody would notice.
Reddit’s power benefits whomever wants to push an agenda and a narrative while minimizing any info that could counter that.
How is that any different than what i initially said?
Yeah reddit’s a weird one. Their financials, aside from this year, are also horrendous. Not sure what value they really bring.
Companies pay for API access so profits go up and stock value go up.
I assume the reddit stock doesn’t pay dividends based on profits. But if you bought for 10 dollars and now it is 500 dollars? You can sell some of that stuck to people hoping it will go up to 1000 dollars for a solid profit. And so forth.
And if it DOES pay dividends (some kinds of stocks do) then a percentage of those profits are directly sent to the share holders based on how many shares they have.
I understand how stocks work. Reddit stock is just a legitimizes greater fool scam as no one will ever get a dividend or see any return in their investment short of managing to sell the stock for more than they bought it. Reddit is absolutely worthless in an strictly economic sense. It’s value is soley in societial and political ways
So… it is a stock that doesn’t pay dividends? Like… that is what stocks are.
Which will only actually ever benefit anyone that owns massive amounts of the stock. Reddit has few tangible assets other than their data, which is of questionable value at best. It’s basically like owning stock in a piblic library
Homie? I assume you are just looking to hear “reddit bad” and… it is.
But if you are actually attempting to discuss things in good faith? You are just describing stocks and you should REALLY educate yourself on the subject if you ever intend to invest beyond retirement and mutual funds… which most people shouldn’t in the first place but that is an even bigger tangent.
I am looking at it froma purely financial standpoint. The inky thing Reddit really produces is semi-anonymous data that is tied to an email address. The quality of that data is iffy at best, while they have massive expenses just to keep the site operating. They can charge for their API calls, but they will never be able to use that to generate actual profit since no one will ever pay for it at that price point.
Something like Reddit or twitter are useful if they are owned by powerful individuals or corporations that wish to influence the public. It is worthless as a strictly financial vehicle because it produces no profit and has assets that are not not equal to the cost of maintain them. You would only buy stock in reddit in the hopes that some billionaire thinks they can do a better job running it than Elon Musk did with twitter. Otherwise reddit stock is just a volatile place to park your cash in the hope that you can sell it for more later.
Which takes me back to my original comment about the kitten stomping factory. It gives value to a select group of people with a specific aim, but it is worthless as an investment vehicle because it owns little, produces nothing, and has massive liabilities. If you want to exert power and influence, it’s useful. If you only care about making money, it’s useless. People who buy and sell stock are mostly only interested in making money.
Then let’s do that.
Reddit has three official and one implied revenue streams.
Of the official, we have:
Ad sales. This is where most “user data” actually comes into play and is the idea of building a profile of each user that can be used to put them into categories for targeted ads. That might be a simple as “likes video games, hates women, curious about learning to pee while sitting down”. Or it might be “doesn’t realize that guy at the bar took off the condom and is now pregnant”. This is demonstrably profitable and doesn’t seem to be effected.
The next is people buying reddit premium because they are idiots.
The last official oneis the actual topic of this thread. Reddit sells API access to, among others, companies training LLMs. ChatGPT has, allegedly, stopped using them. Thus, one of their major sources of revenue dried up and their stock dropped as a result.
As for the rest:
Ah, so you DO know what the definition of a stock is. You just refuse to accept it because the word “reddit” is involved.
The vast majority of stocks are horrible to even consider purchasing as an individual. A general rule of thumb is the only ones you should even consider buying are those with dividends where you just buy a few shares and every couple years check your investment account and transfer the excess to your savings.
The rest you rely entirely on mutual funds (and similar). Where the idea is that an investment group has a large pool of money and they try to stay ahead of minor fluctuations and often outright bet against themselves. So you might have some funds earmarked at assuming reddit will go up and other funds that take the Oracle announcement as a hint that OpenAI spending on Reddit might decrease and sell the stocks ahead of time to buy shares in coca cola instead or whatever.
But the thing to understand is that that is happening to basically every single stock. Because the fundamental idea of the stock market is about leaving others holding the bag.
No, it’s value is that users have up voted and down voted good and bad data. This gives the AI training data that has been crowd sourced by humans. Bots manipulating votes would destroy the value of Reddit.
Bots have been controlling votes on Reddit for years. It costs about $50 to get to the front page of Reddit.
Which is also generally very detectable (if you actually care) and is generally used to push (monetized) social media and not the answer to “what is the difference between normal and merino wool?” and so forth.
The vast majority of the “user” interaction and memes is not the product (at play. it IS useful for societal manipulation but there are better platforms for that). It is all those useful questions and answers that people get pissy about folk deleting the answers to.
Because people, generally, weren’t searching for
team edward or jacob redditbut insteadthe fuck is a renesme redditorLED versus fluourescent bulbs redditand so forth. And the community labeling of the latter is generally REALLY good.Things DO get messy when the question becomes
best synthetic boxer briefs redditbut… it is incredibly rare for an astro turfing campaign to be strong enough to get a genuinely bad product “on top”. You tend to just get an overly expensive branded white label in the top slot which may actually be identical to the “real” best one anyway. But considering you are relying on human opinion regardless, that isn’t far off of what you were gonna get without said astroturfing.Interesting analysis thanks
There are absolutely vote manipulation campaigns still happening.
See this from 12 days ago: old.reddit.com/…/why_are_we_all_just_accepting_me…
12 days ago almost every top-level comment was below -50 and responses were untouched.
Of course there are. That doesn’t mean the majority of the site is compromised.
As a user of the website for many years it’s entirely obvious that a majority of the website is gamed (besides its niche corners). Reddit’s bot prevention mechanisms just fuck VPN users - they are wholly inadequate.
That thread is evidence of a organized bot campaign that they had 12 days to clean up (and didn’t). It’s naive to believe that the rest of the website isn’t similarly (and less obviously) affected by bots - with vote manipulation still standing.
Okay, but it is those niche subs that are the most valuable.
Are you somebody invested financially in Reddit? Genuine question.
Those niche subreddits can also have their moments, too. Maybe it’s not bots, but there are plenty of shills that have been caught in various niche subreddits I’ve frequented over the years (thanks to unpaid moderators).
No, I’m not. I don’t care at all if they’re successful or go under.
Sure, but again it’s not likely to be most. You don’t seem to realize how hard it is to get data that is already classified. That stuff is gold to people developing AI. Most of the work in data science is cleaning data and getting it into a usable form.
It’s noise, a very large part of it. Reddit is financially motivated to make the data appear as if it is signal. It isn’t - they have taken extremely minimal steps to ensure actual human participation.
This doesn’t matter to AI companies, but it only warps that technology more and more. AI is a sinking ship with current methodologies. Reddit will die when the AI bubble bursts and those involved with Reddit already cashed out enough to be filthy rich.
At this point we’re just speculating. We don’t have evidence either way of its mostly good or mostly bad data.
If you can land me a gig engaging with back end data from Reddit in a neutral capacity, it’d likely be pretty easy for a layman like me to confirm that it’s largely noise. The AI companies buying data are getting scammed and you are free to remain neutral or plainly disagree with my assessment in the absence of concrete data that is publicly obtainable.
No company is immune to bots and inorganic engagement, least of all Reddit with the strategies employed.
You keep trying to throw out all the data because some is bad. I don’t think these companies would be paying that much for all bad data. You seem to really want to justify some bias you have. It’s really weird.
Reddit is presumably the only party with the ability to determine which data/interaction is truly legitimate or isn’t.
I have a mostly neutral opinion on AI/LLMs, but I have a negative assessment of the companies driving it unsustainably. They are able to pay big money because AI is where money is flowing. When these actors crash the economy with their hubris, please write back to me - maybe I won’t seem so weird at that point.
They could sell the cleaned votes to AI companies and keep the dirty data public for the scrapers.
Meta/OpenAI openly pirating everything they can to train their LLMs is a good example of how data hungry these AI/etc. companies are.
Is it plausible that companies request that Reddit narrows down data e.g. by demographic, geographic location, or likelihood of being a real person and request that data for purchase? Sure, but the LLMs seemingly require all data that exists that these companies can get their hands on - I highly doubt with the scale of data being consumed (and data theft being committed) that the big players care too much about Reddit data being tainted. If anything, it might even be desirable to them.
havnt they already destroyed the value of reddit, the bots already have massive hordes of downvoting/voting going on.
ability to allow bot propaganda to infest the subreddits more easily(especially politics and news)
Yes, but Oracle’s stock skyrocketed based on the unprofitable OpenAI promising to buy >100B worth of AI data center space from Oracle. Nvidia stock also surged on the news, since Oracle builds those data centers with Nvidia chips
Obviously OpenAI doesn’t have the money to pay Oracle themselves, so Nvidia has helpfully given them the money
So now we have an incredibly large cyclic corporate dependency of money from Nvidia -> OpenAI -> Oracle, then back to Nvidia. Definitely not a financial disaster waiting to happen
They haven’t even spent the fucking money yet. It’s just announcements of intentions, with a fraction of that $100B in outlays. Nobody seems to want to say who gets to be the one holding the $100B at the end of it, either.
Presumably they’ll all just do a stock swap and tell their vendors “We’re good for it, check’s in the mail”?
Well, that and the P/E is 180. Typical target P/E on a stock is 15-20, depending on your anticipation of its growth. But we’re expected to believe Reddit’s earnings will be 9x their current income in… some nebulous amount of time?
Like, its silly to get excited about a company this hyperinflated seeing a tiny slide off its new peak. But also, you can’t help be bearish on a firm this flimsy.
The entire stock market has become a meme stock pyramid scheme. No price makes sense; it’s all glorified gambling making life on this planet worse for most living things.
⚜︎ arscyni.cc: modernity ∝ nature.
Oh no!
Anyways what’s everyone having for lunch? I’m having bean burritos.
Leftover chicken and rice!
Tomato soup because of the flu… What other kinds of burrito would you recommend besides bean burrito?
Try chorizo, potato and scrambled eggs sometime.
Absolutely kickass breakfast burrito, get real chorizo tho
That’s awful greasy for someone who has the flu.
Wanted something to look forward to when I recover so it’s actually great!
Fair enough.
Well, I said “try … sometime”, but also… greasy foods are to be particularly avoided when one has a flu?
I… its not that I don’t believe that is a thing that does or could make sense, I’ve just never heard of that before.
Also, you can prepare chorizo, potatoes and scrambled eggs in ways that are not as greasy, sure they are still greasier than many other things, but you don’t have to do it in maybe, typical street vendor or highly rapid restaurant fashion, with grease dripping out like a cheap pizza slice at a bar.
health.osu.edu/…/foods-to-avoid-with-flu
Huh. I legitimately did not know that.
Thanks!
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6bebf4a5-d0fd-4f6a-a83e-2d1114d6bc36.gif">
fuck reddit! into the sun with it! post haste
Oh my god I somehow forgot that Reddit IPO8ng means I get to read stories like this.
Oh no, the world’s most poorly managed and funded corporate social media website’s with a publically traded stock is tanking, oh nooooo!
Ahahahah!
Reddit banned me today for making a joke that the patch title for Guild Wars 2 could match real life events.
What is the patch name? The Mad King and his Lunatic Court.
Permanently banned for what? Harassment.
Not how I expected GW2 to come up on Lemmy… But here we are hahaha
Well… no surprising since we ought to have the molengrad.
I wish I could say I’m shocked. That site has fallen off so hard it’s crazy. The censorship has gone mad. It’s the main reason I’m here.
Hopefully the mods on lemmy don’t go power hungry
A few have. But when it happens people just start frequenting alternative communities. The good karma flows like water through the easiest path. So when an admin or a mod says they find the term bro offensive, people just unsub and find a better community.
Bro thats so nice
its pretty hard to get power mods here, since you isolate and sequester them by defederating, or block thier content. on reddit, you can get subreddit banned(mods), and sitewide banned(admins)
Must be the AI profiling system and how it flags anyone even remotely talking about POTUS.
im not surprised if the filters is looking for any “anti-trump” comments, they probably will ignore certain bots and not users.
Insult to the king, off with your head!
/s
I remember thinking back in 2021 or 2022 when it was announced they were going public that yep, this site is gonna be gone soon.
also matter the fact they purge IRL users that gave the site real content, which is probably lopsided to AI bot(comments and responses)
Good job, Spez, you fuck!
he does love MUSK and his Xitter platform.
Yay reddit worth less, wtf it’s due to chatgpt?
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d4ec203e-b2da-4830-a6d4-589608c9f02a.jpeg">
That’s what pandering to the bigger techbros spez gets.
Being there stopped being fun ever since the shits started running a massive profile-and-purge program powered by fucking AI, as even casually mentioning violence against right-wingers or POTUS and his merry chucklefucks gets your account flagged for banning. That’s why there’s now a chilling effect.
…yahoo.com/…/reddit-stock-soars-as-company-posts-…
Yeah, and it aged hard like milk.
All my accounts were banned except one, because I used a different email address for that one. Their “AI” isn’t as advanced as they want you to think. They literally just track you by email and IP.
Their profiling system is based on content in the form of posts and comments, and they used AI to build it up in addition to user-submitted reports determining one’s character – and overall ideological alignment. Mods and admins would then use that information to determine if you are a candidate for banning.
Sounds right, tbh. Source?
lemmy.world/post/34741201
rdx.overdevs.com/comments.html?url=https%3A%2F%2F…
mines was the same, until April the final account got banned. I heard early on in the year, that when it gives you the message “your account has been suspended for suspicious activity, change your password”, when i did that the ban was lifted. they fixed that later on. im guessing its thier way of asking for your password to fish out a pattern to ban you with(like fingerprinting,browser, desktop specs.
I wonder why people on worldnews are not banned. 🤔
israeli propaganda, as long as your pro-israeli or anti-russian you are free. last i recieved a 7day ban for critcizing benajamin as the instigator of the war.
I got my reddit ban for replying to someone in world news. Their comment was saying spain should declare war on israel. I forget why, this before the flotilla though.
I got banned for saying that was unlikely as israel is a nuclear power.
you dont even have to mention anything you can just get banned for creating a new account, or firing up an years old account, since they will consider those as bots. it happens randomly though. so much so, the shadowban sub had so many of these bans because they got banned for little reason.(besides the one that have multiple accounts get shadowbanned).
they started limiting the amount of time the shadowban questions stay open to silence any discussion of it.
Wasted 15 years on that site to be banned for one fucking comment, burn baby burn.
Same. My comment was “fuck trump and Obama” arguing about using drones to order civilians abroad. Do you remember what your violent advocation was?
For wishing an old man would have a heart attack and leave the world peacefully.
remember the luigi craze,
no OP.
I got the F out and deleted my old posts every time they restored them until they stayed gone.
Deleting your posts was a waste of time. Chances are likely that it is archived on their end.
Reddit has been paying close attention to behavior patterns of banned users and users they wouldn't want on their platform. It's likely they've gotten your posting imprint and just give you the comfort of thinking you've deleted your posts.
deleting your account also wont stop them from finding your new accounts, they mostly archived that as well. they look at browser fingerprinting, device, device components, time zone discrepancy, browser size and VERSION, resolution,etc. if you use any paid service/trial service that can spoof any of these above and they arnt the correct versions, they can detect that.
and then theres the warming up period with new accounts(like not posting, reporting, or upvoting too fast after account creation)
As far as I know, they use things called Evercookies and it's been a thing now too. If you have an Evercookie, then it won't really matter what browser you use or even if you clean the cache and history. You have to deep scrub your system and practically all traces of your browser to even get rid of those.
And even so, basic networking is a no brainer when they can just flag your IP and it won't even matter how many times you've done that process.
VPN and Incognito browsing is the way.
I discovered the other night that I couldn’t even browse Reddit anonymously with my VPN active.
I don't know then. I can browse Reddit just fine and I'm not using a VPN. It is interacting with the content and commenting I can't do because auto-shadowban.
I can browse when I turn the VPN off. I no longer have an account nor the desire to interact with it’s content any way, but I do like to keep up with a few subreddits that have little to no content here.
<img alt="it’s basically impossible for me. I can only get tech help from YouTube or ugh stack overflow now. Maybe 4chan if I’m desperate." src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9c2964d2-b6ef-4368-a412-3f4b5149d2d9.png">
it’s basically impossible for me. I can only get tech help from YouTube or ugh stack overflow now. Maybe 4chan if I’m desperate.
They’ve been blocking Vons for years.
The absolute degradation of the site is appalling. And most of the comments read like they’re written by children, because I’m assuming most of them are.
The absolute stupidity of everything on the site is flabberghasting.
Oh yeah, since I’ve been on Lemmy, it’s really highlighted just how vacuous the majority of the discourse is on Reddit. I assumed it was just mostly dumb kids, but just accepted it as the nature of all social media these days. It’s so much more grown up here, for the most part.
Reddit used to be like this. The enshittification happened so gradually.
There were moments when it intensified suddenly. Most recently when their stock was about to go public.
That there are so many ways to store data on a browser (including exploits) and that they expose so much information about your physical device is a big part of the problem. Even barring that, there are additional ways they can fingerprint a user. While any one thing might not be telling, when you take all of them in combination, it gets frighteningly accurate how easy it is for them to know exactly who you are.
They certainly can. Do you have evidence that suggests they are doing that?
You can download everything posted on Reddit prior to the great api ban in a torrent. So yeah it’s still out there.
They were archived as they restored them several times. But I kept the account and every time they restored them, I used software to go in and wipe them back out. They’re still not visible on the front end to this day. Maybe they’ll do something AI with them, but they don’t show up in Google search anymore.
I suggested drawing in chalk on the street outside of the governor’s mansion, to protest the GIANT chalk Christ she had commissioned across the driveway to celebrate Easter one year.
It wasn’t even a serious call to action.
Mine was “the german train system organisation should be burned down and redone anew” and “sprich deutsch du hurensohn”
Was it your plan to hit em with the left right politics punch, or…?
No it was under a postof news that the CEO again got raised while the trains were delaid heavier than ever and that a lot of bureaucracy holds it back. Its not politics. Litterly just we need to redo how to organise our trains!
Well, everything is politics. But I was more wondering about the “sprich deutsch” Part - that’s usually more of a racist thing, and therefore right wing politics. But if you don’t see public transport as political you might be right-wing overall?
…are we now just connecting things to put everyone in right corner? God i hate online people…
Guess being against corperates, for self reliance, public owner ship, pro a european state and untouchable democracy, and so on, is now “right wing”.
“Sprich deutsch” in litterly ich_iel is litterly the norm! Thats the joke! Everything is worded german. Guess such is now “right wing”.
“Everything is politics” omfg. Yeah nah. Thats enought Internet for this month, and it only started. Crazy!
bro just skipped the “usually” part and made a rant against things being judged politically.
I think the “everything has to be written in German” part of ich_iel is also establishing a rather nationalist online culture through linguistic homogeny and illegibility to outsiders. So, yeah, you may not want to recognize the impact your words may have, but it’s clear to many others.
It’s a meme on German language subreddits when Americans shit up the place in English.
Yeah, I got that context now, which I also accounted for with the “usually” qualifier. I still think it builds an attitude that is toxic to outsiders and can potentially push someone into a right-wing position. I have witnessed first hand how someone fell down a fascist rabbit hole via online places touting language superiority.
The Star Wars to fascist pipeline is more apparent now more than ever.
Mine was a direct, attributed quote from the US president.
Mine was telling someone it was unlikely that spain would declare war on israel, it being a nuclear nation…
Banned for ‘glorifying violence.’
I could never understand why people cared about their social media accounts.
if you start having a social network within a social media, a ban can hurt.
especially a sitewide ban preventing you from making a new account, of which they dont tell you the offense.
Because whether you like it or not, social media is the easy-track to connect with people of all varying degrees and connect through common interests and even ideals. It's a lot easier than in the 2000s and 1990s when all you've had was an e-mail and probably chat room hopping. You just had to know someone else's e-mail like you would have to know someone's number to call them, that's how it worked.
With social media, you can just breeze through friend lists and comb over searches to find friends and everything far easier. It's easier to connect with people that way than ever before. And losing out on that, can sting.
I sometimes wished it wasn't that way, but the people have largely decided we needed something more than just writing e-mails to eachother.
probably some have ties to smaller communities of specific category(not news or politics), like your into tech, or cars, or CARD GAMES, or console games. or specific discussions. i had identification of “things/plants” that i now cant access. or discussion of a condition(not to find a diagnosis, but your experiences)
i think people were shocked that all thier accounts were banned simulataneously, despite some of them not participating in the same subs, around the same time. they just went after every account in your ip address,device or browser. even if time has passed that a subreddit ban has been lifted in your old accounts. the site filters/AI doesnt take that into account, and i suspect its intentional.
i noticed reddit is very wary of browser forks now too(google, firefox forks), theres a reason they dont like brave(because it hides your fingerprints by default)
feel your pain, homie.
Thanks haha, I was never really rah rah into reddit itself but it had a lot of cool niche subs for hobbies and such and that's where I spent most of my time not even in the default or political subs.
i got nuked right after some dummy account asked if i want to add a new mod on my sub. a couple of days later - voila - i’m actually a malicious bot boo this bot motherfucker. that was suspicious and for what - i’m literally dropping read/watch later shit
I said that folks would blame the Kirk shooting on trans people. What do you know, I was banned and it actually fucking happened.
Oh well! there it is…
I noticed reddit threads have “AI answers, suggestions on the bottom of every page”.
News about short term falls are just click bait. Just look at Tesla
Tesla stock ups and downs seem like someone is literally gaming the system.
That’s because he is.
the fact that neither Musk nor none of his cronies ever get comeuppance for that tells you everything you need to know about the “fairness” of the “system”.
.
Good. Fuck u/Spez.
Keep in mind if the Reddit stock price fell too much some hedge fund vulture would buy up a majority of the stock and then turn it into Nazi town.
Even better then. That’s how the mass migration from twitter happened.
Happy cake day
Isn’t it already basically Nazi town?
It is more disaffected people than nazis. At least the places I was at there. The site wide moderation is pretty fucked in favor of powerful interests, including Nazis however. They like to chase off real people that are driving engagement in favor of the legions of influence agents with their bot accounts.
Right, and if the moderation allows Nazi ideology to run rampant, you have a Nazi town. Especially when it’s all mostly bots spewing Nazi talking points anyway.
Refusing to fight hate speech is tantamount to supporting it.
Nazi cucks at the moment.
Just realized I was posting a reddit habit on a lemmy thread about reddit…
As someone who around when shitredditsays was the bogeyman, always has been.
Downvoted because this isn’t news. It’s clickbaity nonsense which has no bearing on anything real.
Does Reddit stock pay dividends or offer shareholder voting? Is most of it at least hell by their owners, giving at least a financial interest to having its value affected? Then it might as well be Yet Another Crypto Scam, in which case it isn’t really going to affect Reddit because they’ve probably already cashed out.
What people don’t realize is that the stock market is largely based off of on speculation on who’s going to buy or sell when, the articles that tie it directly to how the company performing are basically fortune tellers either telling their customers what they want to hear or catering to their customers by manipulating how their readers will behave.
People use belief in the value of money to illustrate how crypto has value. The stock market is a far better analogy, and there are plenty of confidence scams to go along with it as well.
Good. Nazi sympathizing shithole deserves nothing but the worst. Fuck spez and every complicit modgoloid and SSAdmin.
Modgoloid is great.
I don’t care about their stock value but the situation fells so weird. So chatgpt refers to reddit less, and that makes reddit stock value fall. This really shows how much of the share value is pure hype and how much of “the economy” is pure manupulation of numbers instead of actual value.
How decoupled stocks are from reality or value. It’s bizarre.
Tesla is “larger” than all other car companies combined when they’re virtually always “delayed” on actually shipping product. We live in bizarro world. Your livelihood is a single cell in a giant spreadsheet full of completely made-up numbers.
Tesla sells itself as a technology innovation company, but it sells hype.
The thing that baffles me on that one is that it doesn’t stand up on its own terms. None of Tesla’s tech in 2025 is ahead of its competitors, and they’ve become so toxic as a brand that most top tier engineers don’t even want to work there.
The market can stay fascist longer then you can stay solvent.
meme stocks.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/10547c47-38ff-46e4-bf6f-5d45e6ad8a60.jpeg">
.
The bubble bursts when one of them can’t make their monthly payment.
It’s the dot com bubble all over again
Makes me think I should sell all my retirement stocks and stick it in bonds until the bottom falls out from under Nvidia
That’s actually quite easy to explain. Reddits entire monetary value (or at least a very large portion) depends on how relevant it is as platform to mine user interactions - to use as training material for AI.
Reddit getting references less is a sign that the models, or the owning companies, value reddit data less compared to before.
You just described most tech stocks.
As Cory Doctrow explains:
Fuck reddit.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/89606ea9-c657-4646-8a0f-170e62a29add.jpeg">
The entire site is gpt.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/e89811f4-9cf2-46de-a36c-8b493d33055f.png">
The fact that any AI company thought to train their LLM on the answers of Reddit users speaks to a fundamental misunderstanding of their own product (IMO)
LLMs aren’t programmed to give you the correct answer. They’re programmed to give you the most pervasive/popular answer on the assumption that most of the time that will also happen to be the right one.
So when you’re getting your knowledge base from random jackasses on Reddit, where a good faith question like “What’s the best way to get get gum out of my childs hair” get’s two two good faith answers, and then a few dozen smart-ass answers that gets lots of replies and upvotes because they’re funny. Guess which one your LLM is going to use.
People (and apparently even the creators themselves) think that an LLM is actually cognizent enough to be able to weed this out logically. But it can’t. It’s not an intelligence…it’s a knowlege agreggator. And as with any aggregator, the same rule applies
garbage in, garbage out
Thats why I have stopped calling it ai. Its a dumbass buzzword just like cloud, that tech bros like to use but cant explain (or blockchain).
Its llms, and image generators/OCR (which has been around for decades), Using complex markov chains and a fuck ton of graphics cards. NOT AI. NOT AI.
I’ve had to start calling it AI because most people don’t know what LLMs are, and noone cares to go through the explanation, including myself.
I’m afraid that, as these things go, AI has gained a new meaning by popular use, rather than the original meaning of the acronym.
No point fighting it anymore.
Maybe we just need to adjust and start saying GAI (generative ai). It has a nice ring to it too.
If people are so dumb they dont even know what an llm is, they have no business using any “ai” products. Too bad we cant ban dumb people from using tech that will make them dumber.
It’s always been like that, even since the 1950s…
I use the term “inference machine”
It is AI, along with a bunch of optimization algorithms, statistical decision trees (probably used in adaptive AI in games), etc. AI is a field in computer science that includes a ton of things many wouldn’t consider AI.
Basically, if the solution doesn’t come from direct commands but instead comes from some form of learning process, it’s probably AI.
It’s not “general AI”, but it is in the field of AI.
I would argue we need to go back to Machine Learning.
The field is machine learning, generative machine learning etc.
This rebrand to AI is doing nothing but confusing people and building investor hype
Back? Machine Learning has always been a subfield of artificial intelligence since it all started in the 1950s or so. The end goal is to create general AI, and each field in AI is considered a piece of that puzzle, including LLMs.
Also fair.
I find the term machine learning more honest than artificial intelligence
It’s more specific, sure, but there’s nothing dishonest about using the same terminology that has been used for almost 100 years.
The disconnect is that average people have a different understanding of the term than is used in computer science, probably because of sci-fi films and whatnot. When I hear “AI,” I think of the CS term, because that’s my background, but when my family hears “AI,” they think of androids and whatnot like in Bicentennial Man.
I don’t know how to square that circle. Neither group here is wrong, but classifying something like ChatGPT as “AI,” while correct, is misinterpreted by the public, who assume it’s doing more than it is.
The main thing that AI has shown, is how much bullshit we subconsciously filter through every day without much effort. (Although clearly some people struggle a lot more with distinguishing between bullshit and fact, considering how much politicized nonsense has taken hold.)
Exactly that.
If I were to google how to get gum out of my child’s hair and then be directed to that same reddit post. I’d read through it and be pretty sure which were jokes and which were serious; we make such distinctions, as you say, every day without much effort.
LLMs simply don’t have that ability. And the number of average people who just don’t get that is mind-boggling to me.
I also find it weirdly dystopian that, if you sum that up, it kind of makes it sound like in order for an LLM to make the next step towards A.I. It needs a sense of humour. It needs the ability to weed through when the information it’s digging from is serious, or just random jack-asses on the internet.
Which is turning it into a very very Star Trek problem.
What it needs most of all, is a fairly complete intuitive model of how the world works. LLMs only have book knowledge. They have no body, perception or experience. I think that’s incredibly limiting.
Usually the third/fifth comment down is correct while the top 4 are jokes
“How do I parallel park a car?”
AI Overview: “git gud”
Technically correct
Reddit is a parasite that produces nothing of value. The users are the ones keeping the site alive.
Reddit be a mess, yall
That’s probably why they are banning people left and right to control the content they want to put out.
I just deleted my Reddit account of 6 years. Just found Lemmy today and joined up, this is my first post :)
Its obvious when you watch the way the LLM interacts, its tone exactly encompasses the average Reddit user and post, half-baked karma whoring … You’re absolutely right!