A luxury truck with the ugliest headlights on a car today.

If you knew that he was referring to the purchase of a $80k Suburban in 2030 would that change your assessment?

So a $77-82k Suburban is good in your eyes then? How come? Why? Oh wait, you didn’t read the quote.

I concur, fucken fuckers.

Also the recharge times are still a deal breaker for anyone who fancies a road trip every once in a while.

Agreed, it’s also true that used combustion engine cars can be a great value.

If you just have a regular plug in the garage, it works. I thought that I would have to get a special outlet put in, but after plugging in at night for a couple months I realized there was no need. Figure about 5 miles per hour recharge. I have an older used Leaf that was relatively cheap.

If you read the article you’d see that he said that in the context of buying a Chevy Suburban in 2030. Suburbans start at $77k, so I don’t think his comment is that out of line.

Those trucks/SUVs weigh 8500lbs. Since there is no fuel tax being collected, these monsters are destroying the roads and not contributing to their upkeep. My city is passing laws to significantly increase the registration on these vehicles, according to their annual mileage. I’m all for going electric, but an 8500lb truck is not helping the environment.

2023 F150 weighs between 4,021 to 5,740 lbs, just as a reference point. All electric vehicles weigh significantly more than their ICE counterparts

Range really isn’t a big deal. Pretty much any car will get you from one charger to the next, the question is how long you’ll have to wait to charge. On most cars, 30 minutes of charging will give you a couple hours of driving. Keeping in mind that you can leave home on a full charge and arrive at your destination on nearly nothing, charging overnight, it’s not bad at all.

Oh, and check Plugshare. You’d be surprised how many DC fast chargers are out there. You’ve probably passed by some and not even noticed. There are a few deserts out there (looking at you, Wyoming) but they’re building up FAST. A year ago there was a 135-mile stretch kinda near me without anything along the way. Now there are two on that stretch.

At least horses do have selfdriving if you’re going home wasted from the pub.

Why get butthurt with a historically accurate statement? By 2030 you should not, in good faith and all things considered, buy an ICE vehicle at all, even today some EVs are already cheaper than their ICE counterparts.

How many of us keep horses?

Yes, people already have modded wheelchair ramps for the F-150 and model Y. It can be done, it has be done, it will continue to be done.

I’d bet the conversion companies could almost as easily convert the phev Pacifica as the gas only Pacifica.

10k every 10 years vs ? a new car every 10 years?

Startup costs need to be softened with a costlier higher margin vehicle. Cannot achieve quality mass production of cars from thin air.

The Rivian R1T’s towing capacity is 11,000 pounds, so you can absolutely tow with one. The question is if you’re talking about a trailer around town or a large camper cross-country. The former should be no big deal, you can always charge at home and start your day off full, but admittedly you’ll be stopping to charge a lot more with the latter.

That said, most people don’t carry campers cross-country, let alone frequently

I wouldn’t go buying a VW group, Ford, GM and probably others then for their penchant to kill or poison people for profit.

Maybe. I remember when I built my computer in the mid 2000s (in high school) and saw something about magnetic RAM and how it would be a huge game changer. I thought about holding off so I didn’t build something that would immediately be like buying something that runs on vacuum tubes in the age of transistors, but decided I wanted the computer sooner than later, it would still be useful, and who knows what would really happen with this magnetic RAM buzz. 20 years later, magnetic RAM has not, in fact, changed the game.

Even if Toyota does pull a rabbit out of its hat and they build a bunch of cars in 10 years, that 10-year-old car built today won’t be particularly attractive anyway.

Proof that very few read the article

It’s still a fair complaint though. What about those of us who can’t afford to spend $75,000 on a car?

A Bolt, after all the tax incentives, comes in at around $18k!

Meanwhile gas starts at $8.34 per gallon where I live, while I can charge my car for $0.42 per kWh.

It’s more the tone deafness. Most people couldn’t afford either a car or a horse barn in 1910 just like most people (in America anyway) can’t afford an electric car.

There is a common misconception that EV batteries die within five years, forcing owners to buy a new car. However, this is not the case.

Battery technology has improved significantly, and new types of batteries, such as Li-S batteries and lithium titanate batteries, have the potential to last the life of the car or even outlast it[1].

Many EV manufacturers offer warranties for their batteries, typically ranging from 8 to 10 years or more, indicating that the batteries are expected to last for a significant portion of the vehicle’s life[1].

With proper care and maintenance, EV batteries can last for a considerable amount of time, and ongoing research and development efforts aim to further improve battery performance and longevity.

Citations: [1] semanticscholar.org/…/bf453504da210fe289e61421933…

Have you even bothered to do the most basic Google search before posting this BS?

Hydrogen is interesting for remote use cases, but the 10-15 year old used Leaf and Volt market argue against your second point. Most battery issues will be discovered in the first few years and after that it’s minimal (1-10%) loss after a decade, using far older tech than today’s models. The industry does need some standardization on battery modules to ensure less e-waste, more mechanics, and better pricing.

Tesla’s battery warranty is 8 years and between 100-150K miles. I’m not sure about other manufacturers.

And where would the hydrogen come from?

The two most common schemes are either producing it from natural gas, or wasting electricity to produce hydrogen via electrolysis.

Either way, hydrogen is a waste of resources for most applications.

It depends where you are and what market segment you’re looking in. In NZ you can buy a fully electric MG ZS EV (7 year warranty) for almost the same price as a base model Toyota Camry.

A new Renault Zoe is about 23 000€, which has a driving range of about 400km. Second hand they go for about 10 000€.

Yeah, there are many luxury EV brands, but those aren’t the only ones existing.

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Either still driving perfectly fine or found a second life as static energy storage before ultimately being recycled.

Where I am the price difference between a base model Camry and a Model 3 is 21%. A difference I’d make up in lower running costs within two years.

You could really do with some punctuation.

Let me help you

Cost more up front: yes, new stuff always does

Range is never real not even close: evidently tesla has been lying about range, but for the most part, if you use an AC in an electric vehicle the batteries die sooner…which is the same with ICE vehicles. Use more energy = deplete faster.

Expensive to replace: yes

Wear out sooner than ice engines? Oh I don’t know about that. There’s no moving parts in an electric car. No oil to change, timing belts, no yearly tightening. There’s still tires, brake fluid, and a host of new issues though. But they do not wear out sooner than ICE vehicles.

Lack of charging stations: yes, a limited problem, but in my area there are tons of them and you also charge at home and work (work is free, so it’s free gas)

Slow to charge? 10-15mins wait is really not a deal breaker, you’re just making some extra time to use the bathroom and get coffee.

Useless on road trips: I personally just rented a full electric and did an 800 mile round trip. It was not that bad.

Range worse in winter: goes along with ‘that’s how batteries work’. Plan your trip.

It’s better for environment to keep older car on the road? Hard NO. Older ICE cars are less efficient with gas, which uses more gas. Getting a newer more efficient ICE car is better for the environment.

Creating a battery is bad for the environment up front, but after that there’s a very small impact over the lifetime usage of that battery.

On the other hand, creating an ICE engine is light on the environment, but through its lifetime pollutes. Way larger impact on the environment than the electric.

I think his analogy is accidentally spot on. ICE cars are going to be around for a while

BEVs: *212,000 (up 57% year-over-year) and 17% share
PHEVs: *100,000 (up 17% year-over-year) and 8% share
Total: 311,897 (up 42% year-over-year) and 25% share

Even then. My Corolla cost under $15k brand new off the lot. It’s not the base model either. The base model for the 23 Corolla is almost $22k. Car prices are insane.

Yeah, big words from rivian. Trucks that cost more than a luxury SUV.

So the chevy Bolt?

Ok, that will be $150,000.

Rivian truck

It’s like buying a small house!

The rivian truck (I call it “froggy”) is actually a pretty small pickup truck, by american standard … have you seen a F150? (including the electric “lightning” version)?

still use plenty of fossil fuels from coal plants

This is disingenuous as fuck and you know it. Updates to the grid are by far the most effective means of limiting carbon release. Tying engines to the grid maximizes gains in solar, wind, etc that not doing so does not.

There is no serious plan for climate change mitigation that does not involve EVs.

Man I can haul 3 2x4s in my Camry

in before, “but I need my enormous vehicle because once every 13 years I haul 3 2x4’s and am too dumb to use a roof rack or rent a truck for the day!”

I win!!!

My enormous eletric vehicle (plug-in Rav4) is powered from my home solar panel system, and I use it to transport my dogs to the park a couple of times a week.

I’m completely guilt free!!!😃

Even a subcompact automobile takes up an entire traffic lane and an entire parking space, and providing such spaces is what ruins cities.

The future is designing our cities for walking, biking and transit, not replacing our disastrous car sewers of gasoline cars with disastrous car sewers of electric cars.

The only people who will be cut off are the petrol junkies.

EV’s are getting cheaper by the minute, and the second hand market is growing intensely.

Cant afford a horse either. Double screwed.

$42,000 rear bumper

Yikes! Are you supposed to just throw the truck away when someone hits it?

In my state the minimum legal auto insurance coverage is something like $25k per vehicle. So it’s very possible, at least here, that your rivian gets a parking lot bump from Jim-Bob in his 30 year old Civic, and his insurance just won’t cover it. And if he’s driving around in a car that’s old enough to run for congress that’s covered by minimum liability, Jim-Bob probably doesn’t have any money you could sue him for. I doubt they would garnish wages over a traffic accident, either.

I’m on a diesel and the emission zones in the UK are making it more challenging to own one. That said it has 750 miles range, 4 wheel drive, a station wagon, can actually tow stuff without halfing that range and can fill it up anywhere in minutes. It suits my lifestyle perfectly.

That and it cost me £2600… I wonder what electric car I could get for that.

Considering any new electric cars you buy would have to be made from materials mined and processed, manufactured into a vehicle and then shipped long distances before it even gets to you, keeping your existing car and maintaining it well is possibly better for the environment when the entire life cycle is considered.

80k and it cuts my carbon emissions by less than half. Which might be washed out completely when you consider that a Rivian weighs over 2x what my car weighs.

Electric is the future. But it is a boutique luxury right now. A compact ICE is probably just about as good a choice for the climate as a electric mega truck. Call me back in five years.

Oh, and you get to change your battery in 3 years for $20k because it’s worn out.

There are some big problems that get glossed over that you learn about when you own one, unless you’ve done enough research to know when people are blowing sunshine up your ass.

The UK was replacing their old streetlights with LED, which frees up a lot of electricity.

And at the same time put chargers in every street pole they replaced.

Those apartments can charge there.

I think the charging port thing is slowly resolving Type2/CCS seem to be winning. Most chargers I find that are relatively new support both type 2 and chademo. In a few years I don’t think you will need to consider this and if buying today I’d stick with type 2.

I also heard that since the electric grid is designed to handle peak loads, it is over specced for today’s needs and there is a lot of time during which it could be updated before we get closer to its limits. I also had these thoughts but in practice most people charge overnight when a bunch of daytime devices are off. We might not use 7kW at home during the day, but businesses use a ton of electricity during the day. AC when is hot heating when it’s cold, PCs and monitors during the day, lights even though its daytime and that is before you get to a lot of power intensive specialist equipment that isn’t used at night typically, like hospital diagnostic instruments etc etc etc.

I also wouldn’t judge everyone on Teslas track record. It is clear other car companies are going now slowly and taking more care. Rivian may be a bit different being a new comer but that is certainly true of the established manufacturers.

– a friend of mine just got a Tesla, despite living in a townhouse where he can’t charge. He goes out to charge on weekends, similarly to how he fills the tank in his gasoline car. It’s not as convenient or cheap as being able to just plug in, but it is a reasonable thing to do

— how do you think apartments and condo complexes will get charging infrastructure? It won’t just appear and landlords/associations have no incentive to spend the money. The only way this happens is when EV adoption gets wide enough for them to see they’re losing money without it

— who cares about a charging port? Adapters are cheap

— Tesla’s quality issues are old news, that I don’t think is true anymore. Yes, they had issues scaling up, and discovering what other car companies already knew about mass manufacturing, but I believe they worked it out and are more similar to other manufacturers

— Tesla may dominate th EV market in the US, but every car company has an EV, with dozens more models coming ou in the next year or two. If you don’t like Tesla’s try something else. Personally I’m not sure I can afford a Tesla but an interested in seeing whether GM can deliver on their announced pricing for Equinox and Blazer

The infrastructure just isn’t there yet. If you live in apartments, where will you charge it?

You’re right, but not in the way you think.

The real issue is that if you live in an apartment, you shouldn’t need or want a car to begin with. The fact that so many people seem to think they do is a gigantic flashing neon clue that we’ve fucked up the zoning code and managed to build the apartments wrong in such a way that they’re not in a walkable area despite being dense.

The infrastructure change we need is to be ripping out the parking lots, not installing EV chargers in them!

barns are still useful and valuable today. this guy is a moron! he might have said something that made sense, like buying a new horse-drawn carriage. still, didn’t it take a couple/few decades for everything to switch over to cars?

Even if an EV is 100% powered by coal power plants, it would still produce 40% less Co2 per kilometer than an ICE.

ICE are just that inefficient.

If the EV was powered by 100% solar panels, that would rise to 90% less Co2 per kilometer.

And before you start with “EVs are more polluting to produce”, know that EV’s still would pollute less than an ICE after about 25 000km.

Most cars easily drive 4 times that in their lifetime.

All these products have to come to market in order for prices to eventually come down. People need to see that they have viable options to gasoline cars.

In Norway, more than 80 percent of new cars sold are electric. There are many other options that don’t cost $73,000. Rivian is just one option.

Ah, because the only EVs in the market are Rivian ones.

and it’s only $40,000 to repair a bumper dent! such value!

thedrive.com/…/rivian-r1t-fender-bender-turns-int…

Average transaction price for a new vehicle in the U.S. is already at $48k. Plenty of electric models are below the average price by now.

The fact is, if you’re considering buying a new car, you’re already on the richer side. So this message is mainly aimed at those richer Americans considering a $73,000 F-150, that they might want to consider a $73,000 Rivian instead.

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That amount will get you into a Renault Zoe or Nissan Leaf without much shopping around. Both would be three years younger, be considerably faster, and have a 40kwh battery so a practical range of about 160 miles between charges. Cheapest Zoes and Leafs are listed at about £5k now (but have the smaller battery)and most will take less than listed to get rid as there is a glut of them due to the second hand market being over valued. Zoes before 2021 will likely come with a battery lease, which starts at £50 a month, Leafs do not.

I actually think the battery lease makes more sense on an older electric car as Renault have to replace the battery for free once the capacity gets under 75% available capacity. Most battery warranties on the other hand expire after a fixed period, which a lot of people will now be butting up aginst if they are purchasing the early examples, and the percentage available capacity for a free replacement is often 60%, much harder to hit.

So it can be done in the UK, and even makes sense assuming you can charge at home as home charging works out considerably cheaper than ICE. It costs 9p a kwh to charge overnight so 160 actual miles of range costs less than £4, good luck finding any ICE car that can match that.

As you can charge overnight then you can charge every night, so your practical daily range is 160 miles. If you are genuinely doing more than 160 miles a day I really question the choice of a 1l car to do that. If you are doing 160 miles in a single journey then charging on route will still work out cheaper when spread out over total cost of ownership.

To be fair, the full quote ends with “Imagine buying a Chevy Suburban in 2030, what are you going to do with that in 10 years?”.

So the quote is about sometime in the future and comparing against a new car purchase.

I imagine he was talking about new cars

There really isn’t much of a market in used EVs yet: it’s still too recent that they’d been around in quantity. However the best way to get a bunch of inexpensive ten year old used cars, is to sell a lot of new cars and wait ten years. Let those who can afford to buy new, buy EVs, so in ten years we’ll have inexpensive e used ones

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I don’t own a car anymore and haven’t for two years now. I walk everywhere. Around 10 miles most days through the countryside and coast from town to town.

Healthiest I’ve ever been, I can eat what I want a lot of the time too. I’ve got basically no body fat and I have a ridiculous amount of energy. I feel constantly refreshed too, before I was lethargic and overweight.

I live in the UK however in a very pedestrian orientated location where I can do this without issue. Or get a bus or train if needed. I have absolutely no idea how it would be possible in a rural area or a car centric city. I guess it wouldn’t be, and the people in charge are not willing to change.

Buying any car, electric or otherwise, is 'Sort of like building a horse barn in 1910’.

Let’s say that it depend on where you live. In a big city maybe a car can be useless (or less usefull), but in a small town like mine a car is basically the only way to move around since public transportation is really limited.

Real sustainability comes from changing the zoning code to cease outlawing walkability.

Even if you remove all the private cars in a city, you will discover that you will substitute almost all of them with small/medium trucks to deliver all the groceries/products you (end everyone else) need in your life. And I say it living in a small town where I can almost do the day by day chores without using a car.

I hate armchair urbanists so much it’s unreal

That would barely scratch the surface, I’m afraid. For quite a lot of America, not owning a car is simply not feasible. I don’t have a large friend/family group, but in 4 cases now, we’ve had to relocate our families a town over because wages aren’t keeping up with cost of living. So we all have long commutes now. There are no buses, trains, etc. We were priced out of housing market. When my landlord sold the property and forced my move 5-6 years ago, I could rent and pay 30% more for a smaller place, I could buy for what I was paying if I wanted to move my family of 5 into a two bed with no yard, etc, or I could move a town or two over pay a bit more, and get a decent size house for my family. Today if I had to buy a house, I couldn’t even come close to affording the place I live in now, especially not at 7-9% interest compared to the 3.5% I got.

Now I guess you could still say fuck me I should have given up my dogs, moved my family into a shoe box and just walked to save the planet, but even then that’s not really feasible. In a town of 60k I moved from, there is only bussing, and even then they don’t run often enough to a wide enough range of places that you’re not building in additional hours of the day to get where you’re going. And they often don’t run past 7pm or before 7am. And that’s most of America. Even in large cities, public transportation is severely lacking compared to the rest of the civilized world.

Biking in the US should also help be a stopgap, but our whole society is so fucking car centric even that’s even not really feasible. Aside from the fact that most of infrastructure rarely has bike lanes or even places to store bikes, its still lacking severely from “I’m just going a few blocks over to the bodega” every few days and is more like “just 5-10 miles to the grocery store.” And this is just looking at my tiny little town where I live that is nowhere near as bad as somewhere like Houston, which is far more populous and also even less dense and less traversable by anything that’s not a car.

In 2023, saying people shouldn’t own cars is either ignorant of the issues around it or just classist. The Rivian CEO saying shit like this, with a starting price of $73k, is just more classist CEO bullshit. We don’t even have the charging infrastructure at the moment to support everyone buying electric, not to mention I’d be willing to bet that 50% or more of this country can’t even afford the starting price on whatever the cheapest electric is.

We can give them a little credit when they speak out against fossil fuels, as a treat.

To be fair the headline is a bit clickbaity. The quote is referring to someone buying a new Chevy Suburban in 2030. It would be kind of dumb to do that in my opinion, but I also would never buy a new car anyway.

You gonna be ok, friend?