from AcidicBasicGlitch@lemm.ee to technology@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 23:00
https://lemm.ee/post/67401038
The nuclear scientists were killed using a special weapon whose details were barred from publication, Channel 12 says.
The 10th nuclear scientist was killed shortly after the other nine, as part of the overnight Thursday-Friday Israeli operation, which included strikes on Iran’s ballistic missile program and the Natanz nuclear site, along with the elimination of top members of the Islamic Republic’s military leadership, the network says.
The nuclear scientists were all killed while they were sleeping in their beds, with Israel deciding to carry out the assassinations simultaneously so that there wouldn’t be time to tip off those being targeted.
The scientists apparently believed they were safe from such targeting in their homes, a senior Israeli official tells Channel 12, noting that previously assassinated nuclear scientists were killed while heading to their cars after work.
Israel had been tracking Iranian nuclear scientists for years and the ten killed last week were marked for assassination in November of last year, Channel 12 says.
Just when I feel like dystopian news can’t really disturb me anymore…
Leaving this totally unrelated article about Palantir and Israel here for absolutely no reason at all…
How Israel Uses AI in Gaza—And What It Might Mean for the Future of Warfare:
A program known as “The Gospel” generates suggestions for buildings and structures militants may be operating in. “Lavender” is programmed to identify suspected members of Hamas and other armed groups for assassination, from commanders all the way down to foot soldiers. “Where’s Daddy?” reportedly follows their movements by tracking their phones in order to target them—often to their homes, where their presence is regarded as confirmation of their identity. The air strike that follows might kill everyone in the target’s family, if not everyone in the apartment building.
Abraham, whose report relies on conversations with six Israeli intelligence officers with first-hand experience in Gaza operations after Oct. 7, quoted targeting officers as saying they found themselves deferring to the Lavender program, despite knowing that it produces incorrect targeting suggestions in roughly 10% of cases.
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How is this all normal and ok?
It’s not normal. It’s ok until the majority of America accepts what can really be done with that database Trump is having Palantir build.
Can someone try blowing up their servers? That'd be nice.
The wrong Amazon is burning
More than just America need to stand against Israel.
Makes much more sense to stand up against Palantir!
Except we’re the purse, so if we truly oppose it, we can easily make it stop.
Money won’t stop a genocidal cult from nuking the planet.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option
Stopping the money and supply of arms sure might help.
Who’s Palantir? I sort if live under a rock. Yes I looked it up. I’m asking for the general scoop.
Palantir, as you know is the all seeing stone in LOTR, THiel is obsessed with LOTR for the wrong reasons, he named several companies after lotr themes: MITHIRL, andurl, lembas,etc. Peter thiel is the funds behind AI tech that palantir uses, which is used by the military and now by Some LEO. basically a spying software with AI.
i think the military has been using thiels palintir for at least 10 years already. TRump just made it more obvious, because hes a loudmouth. thiel loved to stay out of the spotlight of the news for many reasons. everytime he was in the news, its never is good for him.
Not just the military. I found out Palantir had a contract with my own city to develop and test their predictive policing technology until 2018. theverge.com/…/palantir-predictive-policing-tool-…
The city banned predictive policing and facial recognition tech, then quietly lifted the ban and replaced it with a very concerning ordinance in 2022. thelensnola.org/…/mayor-cantrell-moves-to-reverse…
Then it came out that the city wasn’t even following the rules they had created in the sketchy ordinance. washingtonpost.com/…/live-facial-recognition-poli…
The private surveillance company using the facial recognition tech (which was created during the time Palantir was still under contract with the city, but is allegedly totally unrelated to Palantir 🙄) couldn’t keep providing the real time facial recognition tracking to city police bc WaPo exposed they were violating the ordinance. However, since it’s only a city ordinance and they’re a private company, they can still provide it to literally anyone else in the city (state police, federal agents, ICE, military).
They’ve already been doing a lot of shady shit to American citizens, and it’s naive to just trust that they won’t eventually start using these kinds of AI drone weapons on American soil.
red light cameras already using facial recognition, to catch would be “runners of red light”, LEO was already using PAlintr PRIOR TO trump announcing “all agencies must use palintir, to target democrats”
The rogue state of Israel has immunity from the US and its satellites.
Europeans did the genocide and took over America, in a much larger scale. Israel is just a smaller copy cat. The fact USA exists justifies what Israel does.
No it doesn’t.
Truth is hard to swallow. Regardless, people are dying anyway.
Apparently Israel’s cock is not
Equating Israel to USA in its right to exist is not swallowing its cock.
They are right. Except one problem still can be solved, the other not so much. Maybe a few centuries after now somebody will think of something. Slow demographic changes and more modern weapons, that stuff.
Appreciate your optimism that Israel is a solvable problem.
Why not, “and genocide is wrong in both cases,” rather than, “and thus they’re both okay?”
Because USA will never admit its disgusting foundations on genocide, slavery, etc. They would rather jerk off dead enslavers and continue supporting genocide.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
So the USA will never admit it, which somehow means you personally have to have a shitty view supporting genocide, too? I still don’t understand the connection, because there isn’t one.
Insane that there are people who actually believe this shit.
What part of that completely factual statement don’t you believe?
Our past atrocities do not justify current atrocities. Sorry.
All’s fair in love and war.
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And everyone in their family, building, and general vicinity, and anyone in that 10% of targets who are misidentified by Palantir’s predictive policing/facial recognition tech apparently?
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It's absolutely not okay, but since there will be no negative consequences for it whatsoever, it's the new normal. This is sadly what happens when laws are not enforced, and I'm not sure if anything even can be done anymore...
There’s always something.
I hope so, I genuinely do.
Don’t worry. “Laws” are being enforced all the time. It’s just not the ones that you imagine.
It is “statistically” normal in that governments and corporations will always choose death because it is profitable.
It is not and never has been ok.
It is not.
www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12587#%3A~%3Atext=….
they have been doing this for decades, even to the point clandestine type novel stories are often written about them.
Just listen to NPR. It’s all good!!! smh.
It should be normal. People helping an evil state get nukes, deserve to die. Unfortunately what’s normal nowadays is sitting around fat and lazy and letting NK become a nuclear power.
The US gave Israel, an evil state, nuclear weapons. By your logic…
Well they were less evil back then… now I think we should cut off all support. And I think we probably would stop the donations, if it wasn’t for Iran being allied with Ruzzia.
Drone fired rounds? Creepy as fuck.
Think about this when you see politicians trying to pass absurd laws like banning all regulation of AI. AI is a cover to remove any last semblance of accountability for atrocious and illegal activities
Exactly. There need to be rules that make people responsible for decisions made by software.
Politicians attempting to ban AI regulation are only shielding OpenAI, Microsoft, Google, etc. Those same politicians will pearl clutch about Hugging Face or DeepSeek in the same breath. It’s just about money and the arms race. Abdicating responsibility to AI would require either a change in how we regulate people or a granting of rights/responsibility to AI. Though I don’t doubt we will see people try to blame AI for their poor decisions.
ok if there are actual Jewish space lasers I’m fucking done with this reality.
Wait where does it say that specifically?
It doesn’t
It was a joke. The weapon used by Israel is secret. Jewish space lasers is a reference to an idiotic tweet by Marjorie Taylor Greene that suggested that the 2018 California wildfires were started by some global conspiracy group with an “energy-based” space weapon. The user you replied to is saying they’re going to be upset if it turns out Israel actually does have space lasers.
I don’t know how we got from exploding pagers to space lasers.
Those are American drones from Palantir.
I bet it was those missiles with the swords that pop out the side.
they arnt getting the ion cannon network.
Funny how precise they can be when they want to be.
It’s guaranteed the number of bystanders that were killed while they killed these “targets” is not zero.
Bet it isn’t a refugee camp sized amount nor an entire city blocks worth though.
Are you ok with just accepting any innocent humans as collateral damage? Bc as far as slippery slopes go, accepting that is a fast track to dehumanization.
I don’t believe those scientists deserved to die, but even if you do, why did their spouses and children deserve to die too?
Try to imagine you’re the neighbor of that scientist. Good chance you’ve barely interacted with each other more than a passing nod of acknowledgement when you’re coming and going from your home. Do you and your whole family deserve to die bc of proximity to a target?
Apply that same question x all 10 scientists they killed. It almost makes the KGB targeting people with poison seem like humanitarian work by comparison.
If these were your friends and family being killed by a foreign government while they slept in their beds, you would have to be a psychopath to just brush it off as necessary collateral damage.
Anyone who gets uncomfortable with government surveillance because it could be used to target certain demographics of people needs to look no further than what Israel has done to prove their point.
The only thing stopping the world from autonomously targeting people by online demographic is common human decency, and humanity is running on very short supply of that these days.
But that is their dream for the future. Purely automatically managing the populace as some sort of a farm.
It’s an arms race. Like at any other point in history. Between those who think personal dignity and freedom and equality are a mistake of history or a device to keep the herd patient, and that they deserve to rule, and those who don’t.
The good part is that this has already been tried. A fast system with deadlocks is not that different from a slow system with deadlocks. And a big redundant system deterministically degrading in itself is not that different from a smaller less redundant system deterministically degrading in itself. No USSR and no Nazi Germany anymore on the map.
The parts about lying and false pretense of law and democracy are new, but not too much - rulers of Frederic the Great’s time had false pretenses of knightly behavior and following imperial mechanisms. One can even compare 30 years war to our two world wars in the sense of creating a new world order, which was considered impossible to change due to endless horrors following that, but eventually become a farce.
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This bit stood out to me. Israel has been planning this war since at least November of last year. Israel’s current actions say this wasn’t a simple “what if…” contingency plan that a government comes up with. This was a plan they were going to put into action soon. Makes it even more disgusting to me.
Fuck, also explains why Netenyahu jumped at the opportunity as soon as he avoided having his government dissolved by vote. Fuuuuck this is so much evil bullshit.
I strongly recommend you to listen to Ilan Pappe. He describes well how Israels society has deep internal rifts as the narrative of Zionism ultimately failed to build a cohesive society.
So ultimately Israel needs the eternal war for two main reasons:
See for example: www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9rr3j7vZGo
This was clear since such a big and supposedly effective intelligence apparatus failed to stop or warn about the Hamas attack that gave Israel pretext to go full ethnic cleaning and warmongering.
They knew, they allowed it, and paid a modest price in Israeli casualties to kickstart their plan. Also, Ukraine was attracting all the war funding, they couldn’t risk USA reducing their military allowance.
I hate that USA is enabling them, and at the same time being hipocritical about wanting a peaceful solution. Cut their funding if you want to stop them. Freeze their assets like NATO did with Russia. Act, don’t talk.
It would take one phone call from the President, and the genocide would stop. Biden could have done it, and Trump still can. I don’t see the US governments unwavering support of Israel ever ending.
Bullshit
You’ll need to elaborate if you want to actually contribute.
The president of the US doesn’t have their hand up the PM of Israel’s ass. This is especially true of Biden who was known to be on his way out either way. We can withdraw support but its difficult for the US pres to do so unilaterally when Israel is politically popular on both side. Given the lack of power to make it stick such a phone call from Biden would have been ignored in favor of waiting for a change of regime.
Who upvotes this shit? Are people here really this naive?
I don’t see how that is naive at all. We prop Israel up. If the president calls Bibi and threatens to stop all aid, unless they imposed a ceasefire, it would happen. They have so much power, tech and weaponry because we give it to them. If we pointed the barrel of the most powerful military on earth at them, they would cease immediately.
This will never happen tho. People don’t become president without complete subjugation to the hegemonic narrative (including zionism). Complete fantasy.
Oh I never said it would happen. It will never happen.
There we again with the israel has superior inteligence that can’t never make mistakes bs.
Israel has many impressive operations but it doesn’t mean everything bad happen in israel is just according to a plan
Pretty sure there were reputable news articles right after Oct 7th that said that Israel’s intelligence was basically aware but decided to ignore it/dismiss it. So in this case they willfully ignored it for some reason, I wonder why…
They downplayed the threat, it’s not the first time they did just like Russia was also warned about Kursk offensive and still let it happen
theguardian.com/…/revealed-russia-anticipated-kur…
USA is just as guilty as the genocidal cult, perhaps even more so. Somehow I have more sympathy for the brainwashed than the profiteering.
o no! israel thwarted iran’s nuclear ambitions! the horror!!!
It’s civilian scientists working on nuclear energy we are talking about.
You’re part of the problem.
Is it though? What level of enrichment do they need for a nuclear energy program, and what level of enrichment were they at? I think it’s naive to say they weren’t working on a weapon.
I’m not saying it justifies killing civilian scientists, but we ought to be honest about the why.
Where is the evidence that they are working on a weapon? There are people getting murdered because people have become brainwashed enough to just assume Iran is working on a nukes.
I’m just saying, killing civilians on the basis of assumption is a pretty terrorist move and feels very similar to how Iraq was bombed to hell by America. But hey, that’s just my 2 cents.
According to the IAEA, the Natanz site was producing uranium enriched to 60% u-235.
For electricity, you need 3-5% u-235.
That’s not an energy program, that’s a weapons program.
And it’s on the IAEA to declare that they are indeed working on a weapons program, not speculation and assumption like yours.
Okay. Don’t use your reason if you’d prefer not to. It does make me wonder though:
Do you think the killing of the civilian scientists was wrong because they were civilian scientists, or because they were ostensibly working on an energy program?
Because as I said, I’m not claiming the murders were justified, just that we ought to be honest about the why.
There are plenty making the argument that Iran needs a nuclear weapons program to prevent exactly these types of attacks. That is intellectually honest. I’m not sure where I fall on that argument, I’d rather no one have nuclear weapons (but obviously that’s not going to happen).
The difference between 5% and 60% enrichment is pretty huge. And the research and effort required to get there is neither cheap nor easy. If what they’re after is nuclear energy, there is absolutely no reason to continue risking the ire of the international community and the repeated attacks by Israel. They’ve had energy-level uranium for a very long time already.
these people have their agenda and its that Israel is evil and deserves to be destroyed. they’ve decided to cast logic into the wind in order to boost their agenda.
o my sweet summer child…
I’m not saying they couldn’t be. I’m saying that the official body meant to oversee this has not yet put out proof that they are. So we can imagine all we want. If the professional independent watchdog that is checking for this has not officially made a statement with undeniable proof that they are, they aren’t.
Who has more insight in the matter, you or the IAEA?
I’m sure you still think it was a great thing we got to iraq before they set off those wmd’s
i’m sure i don’t make asinine assumptions about other people.
Iran has the right to defend themselves and israel has proven again that Iran is in need of this defense.
iran shouldn’t have funded hamas and terrorist activity around the world. Iran fucked around and now its finding out.
Iran is simply countering the terrorist state known as israel.
the terrorist state that launched a war against real terrorists after they murdered over 1200 people and took hundreds of people including children hostage.
your REAL terrorist propaganda doesn’t work on me. blocked.
Oh right, I forgot that history started on October 7th.
I mean, that’s not really surprising. Every military makes plans for any contingency, and Israel especially has always been paranoid about Iran’s nuclear programme, so of course they would make sure they’re tracking the scientists in case they needed to make a move.
The disgusting part is them just pulling the trigger for political reasons instead of actual intelligence that indicates a breakout. And obviously killing civilians, which the scientists and their families are, but obviously Israel has shown in the past they don’t care about that.
netanyahu is using the aggression as a way to stave off his own criminal trials prior to him being re-elected.
In defense, to respond to an attack. The word contingency is important.
If the military is planning acts of aggression then that is called preparing for war.
Yeah, that’s definitely true for imperialist countries like Israel, the US and Russia.
Militaries tend to do both this things.
Only one is defensible.
They have been bombing Iran for years, OC these lunatics had these plans already.
Have you never heard of zionism? This has been the plan for over a century.
Yeah it’s not that Israel is planning this, it’s that this is the plan of Israel the whole thing is this plan.
November, you say? I wonder what happened in November that caused Netanyahu to be emboldened to the point of planning Iranian assassinations…
When Gandalf learns that Saruman is using one of the Lost Seeing Stones, his first instinct is mistrust and suspicion.
Thiel is totally obsessed with lotr, but with a warped sense of what they represent. he also named companies after mithril, lembas, anduril,etc.
Times of Israel
Should be called Crimes of Israel
Sounds like propaganda, based on the source
It sounds nearly identical to the program Time said Palantir was using in Israel in December 2024 to help track Hamas
Except if they just come right out and say that, it becomes more difficult to deny the U.S. is already directly involved. Especially since they just gave members of Palantir positions in the U.S. military
No one cares about whether or not they use a dashboard to track signals intelligence data. The interesting part of this story is the unpublished assassination weapon, not how they selected targets.
Cell phones exploding?
My bet is on small assassination drone. People like having windows in their bedroom. Small drone flies to house, has some mechanism to break window, then blows up once inside the bedroom.
I bet it’s unpublished not because its technology of any particularly impressive degree. Its unpublished because everyday people could easily design the same thing with enough minor technical expertise. They train cadets at West Point to build this exact type of shit out of consumer goods for a reason
Could also be unpublished because the method was absolutly inhumane.
Exactly, they didn’t just kill an individual, they bombed the whole building/block the individual was in - my personal believe.
How would the methodology of the assassination be secret if they had bombed an entire apartment block? Also bombing innocent lives isnt something the Israeli government tends to be concerned about hiding
I’m guessing it’s witheld from publication because they are explicit US tech (eg Predator drones) that has been used to strike whole apartment buildings just to take out (possibly, if the intel is even correct) one scientist. Would look really bad when the US is still pretending they’re not really part of the conflict.
israel and the us all deserve the nuremberg treatment for their crimes
The Nuremberg trials were a media propaganda circus.
Exactly SIX nazis got the death penalty.
The US/UK did everything they could to help the fascists escape and save them from the Soviets, rehabilitate them and keep their power.
I agree with the spirit of your comment. Germany lost, fascism won. But as far as I can see there were close to 40 death sentences out of 160 convictions. Where are you getting your data?
Out his ass like everyone on the internet.
lol joker
death sentences were not all executed.
In line with my comment.
But OK, they executed ELEVEN people.
Even 40 would be ridiculous.
Please understand that I’m not some liberal, and I’m open to your perspective. I’m not being argumentative, I’m just asking for a source. I’m interested in finding out more about the Nuremberg trials, and typically google suggests libbed up shit, so I’m asking you specifically to help me out.
I understand, and it’s good that you want to find out stuff.
I’ll gladly try to help.
I think it’s important not to focus on Nuremberg but understand the purpose of it in the big picture about WW2.
Like I said, the Nuremberg trials where a show trial.
To say to the world: ‘look here, justice has been done and the bad nazis are punished, we can move on now’.
They made an example of those on trial and the world could enjoy watching a few of them hang.
I’ll post some links to what is swept under the carpet and never taught in schools, the uncomfortable truth that US/UK/Eu capitalists had no problem with fascism and helped it survive.
That they went to great lengths to save awful warcriminals and made sure other nazis remained in power in Europe.
…substack.com/…/ratlines-nato-and-the-fourth-reic…
businessinsider.com/former-nazi-officials-in-germ…
www.dispropaganda.com/…/natos-secret-nazi-past
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_Gs-0dhOo
The support for fascists continued post war too:
Covertly, as for example in Project Aerodynamic
But even openly, as they saw no problem in accepting clear fascist states like Spain (Franco), Portugal (Salazar) or Greece into NATO.
Absolute and complete bullshit.
Here you go, I have FACTS what have you got?
…substack.com/…/ratlines-nato-and-the-fourth-reic… businessinsider.com/former-nazi-officials-in-germ… www.dispropaganda.com/…/natos-secret-nazi-past www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_Gs-0dhOo
US/UK also had no problem taking Spain, Portugal, Greece and other completely fascist countries in NATO.
Capitalism and fascism have always been good friends.
LOL cowardly downvotes for inconvenient facts and…
awkward silence…
Sounds like those guys were good at their jobs - jobs which demand following orders.
When you’re putting together a military force, do you want to train every level of it to think for themselves and only follow the “good” orders?
Okay buddy Nazi sympathetizer
It’s not about Nazi or any such thing, it’s about abilities. They didn’t draft the whole German army, just the ones they thought would make them stronger.
You didn’t check any of the links I gave.
No surprise then you know nothing and are one of those who typically only heard of ‘Operation Paperclip’ where they used some ‘harmless scientist’ like Werner Von Braun, etc…
Who was not only a member of the nazi party but an SS member.
So nazi whitewasher, look at the links and explain why they evacuated an entire SS-Galizien Division from ukraine?
The ones who murdered 40000 jews in 2 days at Babi Yar and put 4000 antifascist civilians in a mine shaft and then blew up the entrance leaving them to die horribly?
Or why save warcriminals and let them live their lives in S-America?
Nobody is harmless - regardless of philosophy or origins - particularly when they work for the military.
Seems that your mind is made up, why don’t you elaborate.
“Seems that your mind is made up”
I show facts and know that the US/UK were/are supporters of fascism since it’s the ultimate state of capitalism.
No need to elaborate, maybe look some things up since you clearly don’t know much about it.
And “Nobody is harmless - regardless of philosophy or origins - particularly when they work for the military.”
Sigh, you even misinterpreted that and ignored the punctuation.
I’m not a kindergarten teacher so not wasting more time on you,
The US and UK are populist democracies, as such both had sizeable minority support for Fascism in the years before WWII - I believe it was Churchill who was leaning heavily towards it as a “great form of government to consolidate popular support.” But, those movements ultimately did not gain full control and once war was declared on the Fascists, it had a strong damper effect on support for it in the US/UK.
Nobody is harmless, and no nation is made up of people who agree 100% on all questions. Fascism attempts to manufacture the appearance that lie is true, which is one of it’s many drawbacks: allergies to reality.
It’s not the people that make decisions or even matter.
It is the capitalist US/UK governments that have decided to help their nazi friends.
That’s what matters
In a democracy, the people get the government that they deserve, at least the near-majority of them do.
There is no such thing as democracy, it’s only a theoretical concept.
There’s no such thing as pure democracy in anything larger than an ancient Greek city-state, possibly today’s HOAs - and you see how well they work.
What passes for democracy in todays’ nations of millions (and even the HOA we chose to leave 12 years ago) is elected representative government where the voters trust their elected representatives to represent their interests - to varying degrees of success and failure.
What’s lacking in, for instance, the US government for some time now is actual representation of the majority of the peoples’ interests - unless the majority of the people actually enjoy being on the poor end of a growing wealth gap. Those voters who continue to elect representatives who perpetuate these policies are: getting the government they deserve.
Thanks person from the Meloni Mussolini country
On the Internet nobody knows if you’re a Frog, or not.
It’s time to stop believing the lies of Israel’s might.
They assassinated people in Tehran, they don’t have a special weapon that killed all of them simultaneously. The same lies about “special systems” like the iron dome being impenetrable has been their tactic to ensure pressure on their states.
Special systems = indiscriminate bombing of residential building at night to maximize civilians murdered
Special weapon won’t save them in a long war with Iran. Which is why they want US involvement
Marking people for assassination looks normal to the times of Israel. Nice people.
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Evil state? Which one are you referring to?
Clearly Iran and Palestine
Financing multiple group of terrorists which biggest victims are the own countries the terrorist come from sounds pretty evil
You know Israel escorted cases full of millions of dollars in cash into Gaza to Hamas every month. It was a well known thing. So if funding Hamas was funding terrorism, Israel was well aware and supporting it.
All of them.
www.timesofisrael.com LOL
Could you please kill the leaders instead? Of Israel too?
The country is funded by a supermacist colonial ideology. The population need to be dezionified and other country should do their obligations in stoping a genocidal state
This is state sanctioned mass murder. This is state terror attacks across a national border. This is so unethical and obviously illegal, I don’t know what else to say about it.
We need to distance ourselves from Israel. We need to stop giving them weapons. Right now, the taxes I pay go partially to arming them, I am partially responsible, and this is not “ok”. I do not want to be doing this, I never wanted this…
Yeah, the ‘protocols of the elders of zion’ larpers dont do anything else
I think it’s a few years late for purely negative action to be useful here.
We let this get too far out of hand. The question is: glass some LARPers, or world war 3? If the former is not on the table, the latter is inevitable.
I actually disagree with that. If we end the flow of weapons and funding to Israel, we’d see a totally different behavior from Israel within the week.
And this part, you’re saying nuke them or else WW3? That rhetoric is as bad as theirs! If you can’t think of any other solutions, then please, don’t be part of the solution.
I hope your right, but i don’t know if they know how to stop,
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Fuck off. You can take that shit elsewhere. Grow a conscience.
A conscience is what we need to make the tough choices and prevent another NK
And we are giving millions in contracts to Palantir to help them create these nightmare AI projects with zero oversight.
Alex Karp’s biography makes it pretty clear he’s trying to spin this shit as every American’s patriotic duty to support, and no different than the Manhattan project (as if that’s something great to aspire to in the first fucking place) during WWII.
Just to play devils advocate, what circumstances is it legitimate for Israel to attack Iran?
Yeah, that’s cool.
Well I guess my opinion is that it’s essentially never “legitimate” to be the aggressor. Determining which party is the aggressor can sometimes be complicated, but it often boils down to this: which party is crossing the border?
In this case, I’m sure many would say that Iran took the first aggressive action by pursuing a nuclear program, but I have a few issues with that. First, Israel already has nuclear weapons, so surely that is an earlier provocation. Secondly, Iran still isn’t crossing the border, Israel was first to pull the trigger, and they pulled a lot of triggers (in Iranian territory). And finally, Israel and Iran have been in the process of forging nuclear treaties many times now, and nearly every time Israel has sabotaged the talks with provocative, often military actions, or they simply left the table - it seems clear to me that Israel does not want a nuclear deal, they will not accept any kind of compromise.
If that’s your metric, then I think Israel meets it. Iran has sponsored and directed non-state actors in Israel. These include both Hamas and Hezbollah. Additionally, Houthi militants have targeted Israeli civilian shipping.
So Israel subjugates, kicks people from their homes, and guns them down en mass at peaceful protests for years. Then Hamas lashes back out in what we call a terrorist attack. Then Israel uses it as a reason to further their subjugation and commit genocide. The Houthis say they will shoot at any countrys ships who is trading with Israel unless they stop their massacre. And you’re saying that it would have been a better response for Iran to just bomb Israel without notice. Maybe you’re right. Most of the world should have done something to stop what Israel was doing, but most of it was about putting pressure on the U.S. to say this isn’t worth us spending money on, and convince us to tell Israel to stop or we’d cut aid and sanction them. If Iran attacked in defense of the Palestinians, Israel would once again have made it out that they were somehow the victim. They aren’t. The only reason the “2 state solution” never came to be is because Israel made sure it would never happen.
If a state is to be held accountable for non-state actors then I do not believe Israel or the United States has any moral high ground whatsoever. Even less than if we strictly limit the scope to only state actions.
Since when is it legal to kill civilian scientists in another country?
It got more legal a few years ago, I think. Not explicitly “made legal”, but the legal foundations have been eroded. I.e. if you can expect to get away with something it is legal in a very real sense.
It’s always been practically legal for empires like the US, Russia, China to commit any atrocities in weak countries, More and more countries are seeing how much they can get away with.
Netanyahu tested the limits over and over and saw there were really quite few legal limits. With Gaza, he saw the limits didn’t actually exist at all.
I’m surprised there aren’t more high level assassinations.
I’m surprised they’re publicly announcing this one.
I think it’s probably pretty hard to keep simultaneously assassinating 10 targets and their families under wraps, so they’re trying to get ahead of accusations by pretending it’s a show of military strength instead of horrifying skynet murder.
It looks especially bad when they’re pointing the finger at Iran for fucking cluster bombs.
The argument being cluster bombs are a dirty move, but using simultaneous AI powered assassin drones to strike while people are sleeping makes you the good guys?
I mean… That is how this works. Cluster bombs are bad because they’re less precise and cause more collateral damage. So weapons that target individuals with high precision are better
But like… Presumably, you’re not just individually killing a bunch of civilians precisely
No, they’re not precise at all unless you consider also killing their families and potentially an entire building full of people to be acceptable “precision.”
That’s why it seems like bullshit to pretend lower tech cluster bombs are an inexcusable evil compared to Palantir AI drones.
They are more precise than cluster bombs.
But that’s it exactly - cluster bombs just fling granades all over a city block at random. It’s basically just collateral damage in the hopes of hitting a soft target
I mean, fuck palantir and I really don’t like this tech in general, but blowing up a room or a house is way more precise. You’re hitting just what you mean to hit
And that’s what a lot of war crimes come down to - certain weapons are unacceptably imprecise. Which gets into the first rule of war crimes - you’re not supposed to attack noncombatants
Let’s not defend cluster bombs just because Israel is going to use this for justification…
Because of course they will, this whole thing started by blowing up the Iranian negotiator, they’re obviously not going to start acting in good faith now
That gave me the mental image of an Age of Empires 2 mangonel.
I’m not defending cluster bombs, I’m saying it’s bullshit to kill multiple families in an apartment building and pretend you’re the fucking good guys because you have more sophisticated tech. Especially when there was no reason to attack Iran like this in the first place.
He’s been accusing Iran of being weeks away from having nuclear weapons since 2012. He almost gets voted out of leadership and when he doesn’t he jumps on the opportunity to start bombing Iran and taking out these scientists (and everyone around them) who he had been targeting since November.
He and Trump are going to get us all killed to gain money and power. Fuck them and fuck anyone that wants to keep defending this ignorant bullshit, as if people can’t see clear as day, exactly what these sacks of shit are doing.
Hey, friend, take a breath. Listen… This isn’t how we all die. Unless you live in Iran I guess, and then maybe, depending how it plays out - but even that is not at all a sure thing. I know this is pretty bad, but you can’t burn yourself out on this one
This isn’t world war III. It’s just another bad thing. China has signaled nothing on this and Russia is in no position to do anything. Europe has been quiet, the other Gulf states have been quiet… This could turn into another forever war, but this isn’t going to spark a powder keg.
But yeah, Iran has clearly been trying to return to the fold for years now, and netanyahu has started a second conflict to hold into power. It’s very obvious who the aggressors are
And yes, if you use targeted means to hit civilians and their family, obviously that’s a war crime.
But war crimes don’t cancel out. There’s no place for whataboutism when real human lives are being snuffed out in their homes. We make a list, and hopefully soon the fascists will fall and all the war criminals will stand trial
No matter where you are on the scale, you could always get better (just killing the intended target) and worse (low yield nuke somewhere near the building.)
The saddest part is when they calculate that the collateral damage is “beneficial” to their cause. That’s the kind of calculation that tends to become more and more inaccurate over the long term.
I have mixed feelings - Gaza clearly shows a “worse way” to do warfare, but that doesn’t move the needle on how bad it is to say: “Welp, there’s a 90% chance that somewhere in this building is somebody associated with a group that we don’t like, so take it down tonight while everyone is home sleeping.”
The thing is, until someone actually faces any consequences in modern times for atrocities such as these; simply saying how bad they are has become meaningless.
It isn’t meaningless.
It is not enough in itself and being like “well i said it, now all is done from my side” is problematic.
Still it is important to call it out as a mean to pressure those with direct power to enact consequences to do so.
Saying it’s bad is a step better than saying nothing, which is a step better than parroting the speeches provided by Great Leader’s party promoters.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0bc61abf-5eb1-40dc-a00d-d5be6e901e5b.gif">
Since you’re just larping your fav book when you do it
When they’re not european.
Civilian nuclear scientists working in enrichment are not protected by the Geneva convention. Technically it is legal to kill them when engaged in warfare.
Has Israel officially declared war on Iran? Apart from that, why aren’t they protected by the Geneva convention?
An official declaration of war is not required. These nuclear scientists are not protected by the Geneva convention because Iranian nuclear infrastructure, including persons, are military targets. The purpose is to destroy Iran’s nuclear capacity and that’s a purposeful military objective.
That sounds like total bullshit, according to that logic anything could be declared a military target and therefore nothing would fall under the Geneva convention. I think you’re talking out of your ass.
Vibe warfare sounds like a terrible idea
But oh so lucrative, and with a catchy phrase…
I see moneybags in this idea, wonder who will first make it a reality…
Few things say “you need a nuke, you need it right now” like foreign states killing your scientists, in their beds in the dead of night
One of those things is a genocidal theocratic ethnostate killing your military leaders.
I don’t agree with Israel at all. But Iran is a theocratic ethnostate as well. One that has pretty loudly proclaimed that the day they have nuclear weapons is the day before they use one on Israel. There’s nobody out there who’s in a morally high position.
Theocracy maybe, but I definitely wouldn’t consider Iran an ethnostate
Theocracy yes, almost as badly as the zionists. Ethnostate no. You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, hazbarite.
When was the last time Iran invaded land to settle it with its own people?
Yes, because iran is as bad in one single way as the zionists, they’re also as bad in all the other ways.
Like how im a really shitty painter, so therefore im exactly as bad as hitler in everything.
Im glad you understood precisely what i was saying there. Really helps my faith in humanity.
If you say so.
I do. It really sucks. The farts just won’t stop. Basically actively shitting myself at all times, like a river. Exactly like Hitler. All because I can’t paint.
I think their last offensive war was tge 1700s? Since then it appears they have been mostly playing the soft power war by proxy game. While their main antagonists actively invade, infiltrate and kill them.
I can’t personnally get over the facts that invaders overthrew their democracy because of fucking oil.
The perpetrators should nuke themselves out of shane. Their intelligence agents should auto-trotsky themselves.
No Iran definitely has the moral high ground, by a fair margin. Israel has been committing a genocide, as well as running a full on apartheid ethnostate, if you didn’t know. But even if we ignore that, the IAEA as wel as the American intelligence community (think NSA, CIA and so on) have both assessed, as recently as a week ago, that Iran has not attempted to build nuclear weapons since 2003. Iran is being bombed, illegally, based on a lie. That’s high ground enough for me.
They can stop enrichment of uranium any time it’s not even the only choice for nuclear power and they long surpassed the target they need to generate power. They ARE trying for nukes just aren’t close due to first negotiations then sabatogue and murders.
What do you know that the IAEA, the NSA, the CIA, the FBI, and the rest of the entire American intelligence community don’t? What an unbelievably arrogant way to fall for the exact same lie that they used for the illegal invasion of Iraq and all the war crimes that ensued.
cnn.com/…/iran-nuclear-sites-hit-us-explainer-int…
They are enriching uranium to 60% Note CNN isnt the only source for this.
world-nuclear.org/…/uranium-enrichment
They need 3-5% for nuclear power
What do you think they are doing. Experts say not that they aren’t working towards the appropriate tech but that they aren’t close.
You listed all sorts of sources but cited specific statements do you could borrow the appearance of expertise while putting your statements in their mouths.
For instance I looked into the iaea I could find no statement to the effect that they aren’t working towards nuclear weapons. They would in fact be stupid not to.
As far as I can tell you are confused. I look forward to your detailed sources and reputations
Oh gosh oh wow good find, you should pass those on to the IAEA and NSA and so on because I guess they missed this when they assessed that Iran hasn’t tried to build nuclear weapons since 2003. Fucking moron.
No, Iran is definitely not on any sort of moral high ground. They and Israel are so deep underground they’re communicating with the mole people.
I think you stronly underestimate how bad genocide is. Are you a history buff? In the 20th century there was this guy called Hitler. He became the personification of evil because he committed genocide. That’s where Israel is at. Iran, as far as I know, is not committing a genocide.
I don’t think you give a shit about genocide, personally, you’ve just picked the Palestinian Genocide as your particular favourite issue to bang your drum about.
Tell me, what are your opinions on:
And those are the other genocides happening literally right now!
Let’s go a little further back:
So no, I don’t think you care. If you did, you wouldn’t be supporting Iran who gives drones to Russia to commit genocide and have themselves committed genocide. You would be calling for Iran’s government to be deposed for the religious nutjobs that they are.
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If I learned anything from the 2024 election it’s that we must unequivocally support the lesser evil. Since Israel attacked first (and is actively committing genocide), that means Iran is the lesser evil and therefore they are perfect and not supporting them means you support genocide. /s
The other is the world’s biggest bully and largest exporter of “freedom”, as seen in Lybia, Iraq and even Iran back in the 1950s
Lol, that sounds fake.
i’m sure everything will be fine.
Don’t check the news.
Yet they didn’t know about preparation for the October 7th attack?
Tinfoil hat mode: they let it happen to have a reason to raze Gaza to the ground.
(Sorry, that’s my “Bush did 9/11” moment)
No tinfoil needed, has it not been confirmed that Netanyahu was aware of the attacks and let them happen?
I don’t believe that has been confirmed, but I could be wrong.
Edit: I stand corrected.
Looked it up because I wanted to be sure…
nytimes.com/…/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.ht…
www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/…/ar-AA1BEa1k
Here’s Netanyahu passing the buck:
timesofisrael.com/netanyahus-office-admits-pms-st…
At the very least, the information was out there and either he knew it and allowed it to happen (maybe wasn’t aware it would be that successful), or was grossly incompetent and derelict in his duties.
Thank you. The depths of that man’s evil never cease to amaze me.
The safest strategy with people like him is to assume there is no floor, and that for everyone else’s safety, he should be humanely put down on that floor next to his morality.
And I mean put down in the sense we talk about our aged pets, and I know it’s truly better than he deserves.
So Netanyahu let close to 1200 Israelis die of which 736 were civilians? Are any Israelis condemning him for that?
There is also the Hannibal directive that was used against Civilians that die.
Israel killed a non disclosed number of its own Civilians to prevent them being taken hostage. www.abc.net.au/news/2024-09-07/…/104224430
Yes. There are a lot of protests against him. It’s just not enough.
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Yes? I gave him the benefit of the doubt when I said he didn’t realize it would be so successful. Not sure he even deserves that.
It’s confirmed. As is Israel funding Hamas.
I never saw how that played out. I’ve seen articles that Israel escorted Quatars donations/aid/whatever you want to call it into Gaza in cash, but where was the link that it was their money as well
The Zola algorithm is real
Unfortunately the answer is pretty simple. The USA and Israel are best buddies and if the USA says their buddy can have a nuclear arsenal who is going to stand up and tell them otherwise?
Why does anyone get to have nuclear weapons?
Because once you have them, who’s going to try to take them away?
yeah but if Israel gets them the countries they keep bombing should also get to have them. the country that jerks off to 2A somehow doesn’t think so.
USA is at the core of the Western-Imperialist hedgemony & Israel, Japan & Pakistan gets to have them because they are Pro-Western imperialism
Japan doesn’t have nukes though. They don’t even allow nukes in their territory. They could make them if they wanted to, they have all the necessary industry to make them, but they don’t actually have any.
There’s word of sharing nukes with the US, thanks to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and threatening to nuke any nation that tries to help them, but I’m not sure that’s actually gone ahead.
Iran is a terrorist state run by lunatics. Them and Israel having them is even worse than Israel having them.
weird how Israel is the one that keeps invading other countries, not to mention terrorizing palestine for its entire existence.
should?
Wait what
yes. the fact that Iran doesn’t have nuclear weapons and Israel and the US still went after then is proof that they should have had nuclear weapons. because guess what would happen if they did. Israel would have stayed the fuck away.
Clearly not working, Israel and the us have them nukes and that’s not stopping Iran and Palestine from retaliation
Or do you see them staying the fuck away?
Because I certainly don’t
lol what. yeah the parties that don’t have the nukes do retaliate when the parties with the nukes are the aggressors. Iran didn’t start a war. Palestine isn’t even involved in a war that’s just genocide.
You are clearly seeing having nukes has no effect on retaliation, so why would you insist on it?
what. retaliation.
i haven’t been talking about retaliation. you brought it up.
See Budapest Memorandum
In 1994, Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for security assurances from the United States, the United Kingdom, and Russia.
A huge mistake, apparently
Yeah, seems like the lesson is build nukes at all costs, as it’s the only safeguard against attack.
Also see Libya’s nuclear program.
Typically, no one wants to die for stupid shit, especially when they are in the wrong. But when there is no consequences such as dying, a.k.a no nukes, why not go to war and take everything? There’s no morals between countries…unless enforced by nukes.
This is why I’m pro nuclear armament of all countries.
username checks out
vsauce music kicks in
or does it?
This is the dumbest possible position because it maximizes the chance that they are used. There is no reason to think mad working was likely amongst a few actors and it almost failed repeatedly. There is even less reason to suppose it scales.
If they do need to be used anyway, then it was perhaps for the best.
shut up
Your mod history tells me you aren’t worth knowing. Blocked.
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Why not?
Daily on Lemmy there are thousands of calls to murder X or Y person who doesn’t agree with collectivist ideology.
Why would it be different for them?
Are they in the room with us right now?
Sure, just check the modlog, there is thousands of murder calls and violent action calls erased everyday. That’s the ones that get reported.
I feel comfortable saying no one here is surprised in the slightest by the level of violent discourse shared in here on Lemmy
Because lemmings that try doing it would be pulled in front of a judge if they went public about it afterwards. It would a) just be a single person that would b) face consequences for that action.
Israel on the other hand is a state level actor killing civilians in another jurisdiction. I know it’s just another war crime between many others at this point, but it bears noticing just how little the consequences have become
Because you don’t wanna be an antisemite, do you? /s
the most dangerous profession in the world has gotta be iranian nuclear scientist.
That, or perhaps high ranking Iranian general.
I dunno, I’m sticking with crab fishing in the Arctic
They are targeting anyone with a degree in nuclear physics. Someone posted that his colleague was killed and they had nothing to do with the enrichment program. It’s murder.
Who is someone? What is the proof of the murder?
I need names and addresses! For… Reasons unrelated to any lethal plans
Sir we all know that if you just want to post fake bullshit you can just say so, it’s not illegal
I didn’t post anything besides a snarky comment below yours
Usually you need to provide sources for your claims, that’s a normal thing that people will ask for, you know.
Oh my god people. This is just a tongue in cheek joke about the ridiculousness of the two comments above me. The first one is either completely made up or pretty much unverifiable if true. The second one is an unreasonable request if the first comment was true because it would obviously endanger the source. It was meant as a test for whether the first comment was telling the truth but it’s completely failing at doing that.
So no proof then? Complete bullshit, man
Logging, fishing, hunters, steel, mining and roofing workers are the most high risk professions in all the planet
About 92% of the fatalities are men, about 2 men die per hour just by working on the more dangerous professions in the whole world
🫡
Proof?
Sure
You can go to the bureau of labor statistics website, there is a section related to fatal work injuries:
bls.gov/…/civilian-occupations-with-high-fatal-wo…
There is also the national safety council website
injuryfacts.nsc.org/…/most-dangerous-industries/
They have the aggregate for worker injuries by sex, you can just filter the ones:
…nsc.org/…/worker-injuries-and-illnesses-by-sex/
The bureau also has specific reports for this
bls.gov/…/fewer-women-than-men-die-of-work-relate…
It has reached the news, from time to time, this one article is old but still stands
forbes.com/…/fatal-employment-men-10-times-more-l…
The count you can get by using the latest 2023 census data from the bureau
www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf
Worst offender is China, their latest years birth policies have All but skewed that ratio
globaldata.com/…/the-gender-ratio-of-china-325417…
I guess this is what they meant by they had something planned whether the US bombed Fordow or not
They are flying jets, using drones, and even small explosives. The homes of these scientists were severely damaged. The richest countries of the world are backing Israel.
Is this just Israel putting out propaganda? These scientists thought they were safe at home. Sinister! Super secret weapon that blows up apartment buildings. Sounds revolutionary!
As usual this is teenage boy logic. They are posing with their guns as recruitment propaganda. No it’s a super secret magic cool gun from god you haven’t even heard of it because it’s so futuristic and we’re cool so not at all evil, right
What is to stop the ultra wealthy from simply each making a million of these AI commanded drones, and just…killing all the poor? ALL of them? ALL OF US?!
Why would they do that? Then there’d be noone to work the mines…
Then who would they lord over and whose hard work would they make their money off of, on the other hand using these threats to bring back slavery feels like the scarier future to me
They can have a large zoo
We in the USA are telling farmers that they won’t deport their labor if they are accountable to them. They can very easily have those who defect or resist in any way deported to concentration camps. They can also be imprisoned for trying to slip over the border the other way.
The ratio of poor to ultra wealthy is far greater than a million to one. Other than that, the only practical reason they have for not doing it is that they still need human labor for most of what they do. That isn’t going to change anytime soon, despite AI. However, they don’t need their labor force to be free or happy, which is why the US is on the cusp of a fascist takeover.
The rule of law has largely stopped mattering to the ultra wealthy. It may occasionally inconvenience them, but they know it will never affect them in any personal way.
Not all of the ultra wealthy are socipaths. Unfortunately, terminal-stage capitalism does a surprisingly good job of selecting for sociopathy at the very top of the hierarchy. Becoming that rich requires both a strong belief that you deserve it and a disregard for how acquiring it harms others.
One weird thing I noticed is the children inheriting the welth also tend to be psycho. Perhaps having everything you need destroys empathy?
Yeah that’s why collectivists worldwide always strive to think for you what you need, and taking the standard of living to the lowest possible level, that’s way no one can have have what they need, except obviously the ones in power, ideologically speaking
I would never allow it. Experimenting with gadget combos is how I live
Does that imply that we should avoid getting people everything they need?
That is a good point. I think you’re right that being raised in an entitled environment by a socipathic parent brings out the worst in people. It also selects for the worst child being the one who wins the fight to take over the business.
The rich are only rich because the money they possess can be exchanged directly or indirectly for people’s labour. Without it, the money is valueless and the rich cease to be. It’s also one reason why labour strikes are so effective and the rich have had to create militias to prevent them.
You miss the point. If they get AI to the point where it can replicate our work “well enough”, it won’t need to even be intelligent or invent new things.
They won’t need to care about money, if they get to the point where AI produces and maintains everything for them.
I understand completely what you’re saying and I have considered it. I just don’t believe we’ll ever get to the point where a fully automated system produces all necessary goods for high standard of living without human labour required. Worse, even if we get to the point where significantly less labour is required, history informs us that the unemployed would very likely revolt and take power through violence. Especially because we won’t be able to go from the status quo to a state where we neutralize revolting people automatically in a short enough time frame for people to be caught by surprise and unable to revolt. Not to mention that a part of such a revolt would likely include the stoppage of work by people who work on, maintain and operate the automation. I think the most likely scenario as we go down this path would be the formation of militant labour unions that take power back from the rich and steer automation into producing for the majority. Whether we go away from capitalism through this change or reshape it, I don’t have a guess.
because the ultra wealthy can’t cook, can’t produce the stuff needed to cook, can’t build super cars or private jets or build mansions, they can’t make the latest high tech gadgets, they can’t produce the most stylish of clothes or expensive watches. That’s why they keep us around. They need us plebs to make them stuff and produce their wealth to purchase the shit we make.
This why they are so obsessed with AI. When AI can do whatever they want, the rest of us will be exterminated like pests.
Who would’ve guessed skynet was purposefully created by the wealthy back when T2 came out amongst us general public?
I was like, “oh that’s so eerie” as a youngster. The truth behind this path has, unfortunately, been both more embarrassing and savage.
At least there’s no way they won’t turn AI against each other and extinction themselves in the process.
I think wage slaves will be cheaper than robots for a while longer
Maybe just save yourself the trouble and get a heads up you know
www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-2tpwW0kmU
the rate at which i’ve been referencing slaughterbots has steadily been increasing…
Pretty much this and the answer is nothing. This is the world we have created where people are murdered just because. We are the ultimate terrorist.
Are you just like that by default or are you just missing your daily pills?
Maybe stop projecting your inner traumas towards the world, and get help. Can’t be possible to live a healthy life with that mindset
Why would anyone do this? Why wouldn’t the normal legal process supported by all the rest of the rich bozos stop the one Uber rich psycho.
Why would anyone not notice a million terminators being made before they were unleashed?
I believe they were sarcastic, their name is listed as worldsdumbestman
Yeah, if it wasn’t only because people in here love that type of “sarcastic” comments
I mean 26 upvotes for a clearly deranged idea?
Jeezus
Because drones are expensive, and it would be a waste of money to use them on poor people.
I have always been amazed that countries are allowed to get away with this. You would expect that a country that does this would have their leadership rounded up by an international strike force instantly and hauled to Hague.
There is no “international authority”. It’s all big stick politics out there. It’s like trying to go after a corporation in the US. The “punishments” when they break the law are fines, if that, and any admonishment not to fuck over the same person in the same way again.
Think about your boss shorting you $100. The “legal” process involves YEARS of waiting for a court date, a labor code interpreted heavily in favor of the employer, and at the end of the day, they get fines and maybe have to pay back what you rightfully earned in the first place.
Now think about what happens when you steal $100 from work. Immediate police involvement, possible arrest, absolute legal consequences even if you’re cleared years later, the presumption of guilt from everyone in society.
It’s even worse on a political stage. Nobody has the moral fortitude to step forward and fix shit because it’s broken. Everyone just waits around until the collective consciousness supports some sort of social consequence on the offender in question. That’s not even tying race or religion into the mix, which Israel loves to twist up into their particular brand of nationalism.
The civil world is simply too polite to call them out for all their shit. It’s a whole world full of chickenshit and I am tired of the stink.
It’s like that saying goes: “The law is the same for everyone, neither the king nor the beggar may sleep under a bridge.”
That’s BS. The king would never need to sleep under a bridge and if he chose to the police would be there to kick out the homeless people and make sure the king is safe for the night.
That’s the point of the saying. The law can be crafted to treat everyone equally, while only benefitting the king.
Edit: It’s why the billionaire media is so angry at the concept of “equity” and “wokeness”. Both terms help us beggars discuss our situation, and both might threaten the king’s throne, if we realize how simply the laws could be adjusted for what we want from them, rather than for what the king wants.
I bet this guy knows how to play Mario Kart.
Nation level retaliation would ensue. Maybe possible to do in some country matchups, but not possible in all.
There’s a rules-based international order. We make the rules, and guess who gives the orders.
So why is Vladimir Putin not in Hague?
Russia is on the security council. As far as we understand, they are part of the international organization that makes the rules
You mean like when Gerald Bull was killed? Surely an accident.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Bull
Which is why I am sitting in disbelief that Iran could be so monumentally stupid.
Trying to give Iran nukes is pretty close to accompliss to mass murder. Iran is a terrorist state.
Anyone should reasonably be trying to negotiate to avoid loss of life but at the end of the day killing them may be the lesser of two evils from the perspective of the would be target.
Isreal is a terrorist state, the US is a terrorist state. Assasinating people or blowing them up on their way to work is terror. Blowing up pagers in homes while a child is bring it to daddy is terrorism.
Terrorism is internationally recognized as when a group or organization unaffiliated with a recognized government uses violence to achieve a political goal. “Terrorist state” is a contradiction in terms.
Netanyahu is leading a genocide and starting wars, all to avoid the regular democratic and legal process of Israel. Why are you carrying water for him?
This isn’t how anything works. No government cedes this kind of authority to anyone and trying to enforce it would lead to war even among allies.
The alternative is “drop bombs”.
Rounding up leaders and putting them on trial seems like a more civilized international approach than engaging in the same bloodthirsty, explosive, surprise-murder that is literally the whole problem here.
You don’t have the alternative to go into other people’s country and round up people because people will absolutely shoot any such folks then drop bomb’s on your cities and forces. It’s not my fault you are confused about what the options are.
You have been playing too much rainbow six. There are no good guys in the halls of power looking after us.
There are only the rich fucks over here and the rich fucks over there pulling the levers of power.
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I wonder how many civilians Israel killed in the process. It’s probably a lot more than 0.
Proof?
I don’t think there’s proof yet, but Isreal has shown zero qualms about killing innocent civilians.
They simply define who is innocent or a civilian. Or human. It’s quite clever.
They learnt from the best
The innocents in question are human shields being used by Hamas to protect their objectives. The suffering of those humans and children should have resulted in a massive operation to dismantle Hamas’ financial teeth. Instead hamas leaders still take all humanitarian aid and repurpose them against Israel. Qatar and Israel are the real perpetrators of this violence.
No, the innocents in this case would be anyone who lived with or near the target, so their family and neighbors. It’s not like they sent in snipers to take out the one target, they sent bombs, and bombs have collateral damage.
Yeah but Israel is also known to use Palestinian civilians as human shields, such as when crossing a suspected minefield.
Got a citation for that claim?
There are also claims of IDF sending civilians ahead of a raid in potentially booby trapped buildings.
But why waste our time on hearsay? It is hard enough examining all the documented evidence from each side.
In feel like there just aren’t enough of us trying to get at the truth. It is more like a game of football from the comfort of our Western homes where we encourage our team to keep going regardless of losses (on the ProPal side the encouragement for Hamas to not surrender is especially buzaare).
Human rights organizations and many high-profile news outlets have reported on this. See citations in the relevant Wikipedia article section. Reuters even has an article with video evidence.
That said, Hamas does this too and their surrender is probably the best we could hope for to further peace talks.
Wiki citation:
86. The United Nations verified the recruitment and use of 4 Palestinian children (3 boys, 1 girl) by Israeli forces as human shields (3) and by the Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades (1) as combatants in the occupied West Bank (3) and the Gaza Strip (1).
So that’s 4 examples of the IDF and 8 of the Palestinian militants. The numbers are not a scorecard though. These are just children and just the ones they had evidence of. Must happen a lot more, especially if you count adult shields.
I expect better from IDF since they represent a democratic government and so we should be hearing of the rogue soldiers being disciplined (jailed even). We rarely hear that.
One of the target’s two children died in the pager attacks. Civilian casualties & injuries are not always human shields. In the case of pager attacks for instance none actually was since the attack was unexpected.
The pager attack was pretty targeted. Very low percentage of civilians killed (unlike the percentages of Hezbollah attacks on Israel).
Just FYI, that attack injured more than 100 people per person targeted and led to 10 people per person targeted to lose their eyes. That seems very untargeted to me.
Not trying to be that guy I swear, have you got a source? That number seems pretty high, even for Israel.
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… Please stop agreeing with me, you’re awful.
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I’ve seen attacks where a hundred people were either killed or injured, they call that a car bomb. I.E, you need a vehicle to carry that much explosive.
Utter nonsense that a pager did that.
Going by this very targeted attack video, I find those numbers difficult to believe.
There just isn’t much explosive you can secretly pack into a pager. The strategy relied on body proximity.
How is that even remotely possible? The users here will believe absolutely anything.
hah!
Explosives famously only harm the intended target and not anyone else around them, don’tcha know?
They obviously have way more than zero qualms about killing innocent civilians. Gaza would look a lot different if they did not.
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What do you need proof of? The fact that the comment is speculating? It’s not stated as fact…
or allowing israeli settlers to forcibly take palestinian homes, i saw all those videos onr eddit, where they were rushing tino areas to sieze homes.
How can people be so fucking stupid as to keep their key personnel vulnerable like that?
I mean it hadn’t happened before so it is understandable
Hey don’t worry about Mossad and the USA, just close your curtains tonight in the house you’ve lived in for 40 years. You’ll be fine.
I mean, if I was a key part of the nuclear program of the US, and there was another country specifically targeting the US’s nuclear program, I would assume myself to be a target.
Sure, but you can’t take unilateral security steps, because, well, you know, YOU ARE PART OF A NUCLEAR PROGRAM
You need to submit to the security policies already in place
At most, you can give suggestions, etc, but the final word is with the person in charge of security. That’s probably the deal you signed on for.
And can’t complain, that’s why you signed the NDA, voluntarily of course
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Oh are they also bombing refugees that they themselves created? My goodness, someone should stop that!
Humans have rights, not states, and Israel’s existence as an apartheid state is mutually exclusive with the rights of the humans living there.
jeez you’re a racist scumbag POS.
It’s not racist to say that a theocracy scares a lot of smart people away. I know multiple Iranian families who all fled Iran after 1979 and came to Europe. All highly educated, all very opposed to the Islamic Republic that ruined their country.
Here, the effect is notable enough to have its own Wiki article: en.wikipedia.org/…/Human_capital_flight_from_Iran
Wikipedia sucks ass.
And 1979? LOL
When they removed the US installed shah regime.
The Iranian equivalent of Cuban gusanos.
The US/UK ruined their country when these vultures overthrew the democratic Mossadeq regime to steal their oil as always.
And you know it.
Iranians are highly educated now,
They produce as many engineering graduates annually as the United States.
70% of them are WOMEN.
So suck on that and stick to playing your games kid.
As opposed to the upper limit of morality and ethics of those who are carrying out the unprovoked attacks?
Unprovoked?
en.wikipedia.org/…/Destruction_of_Israel_in_Irani…
Aren’t you the genocide denialist?
“the troll left his calling card”
“it says pussy”
What do you mean, “no further replies”? Are you referring to the toxic people I blocked?
Are you one of them?
Incompetence is the hallmark of the mullahs’ regime
Then how are they a threat?
I don’t know how much of a threat they are, but incompetence and ability to harm are two different things
Donald Trump is an incompetent idiot. Doesn’t mean he’s not a threat to anyone.
He’s perfectly competent, just not for you.
How can people be so fucking stupid as to believe a pissrahelli source.
They lie when they open their mouth
There are very few habitable places in the world not susceptible to airstrikes. The bombs dropped on nuclear facilities last night are claimed to be able to penetrate 60 meters of earth before exploding.
Literally rip BOZO
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6baacd50-e31e-4556-96cc-45fc2a2aa332.png">
The weapon: 💣
Let me fix the headline - Israel commits more state sponsored terrorist attacks in neighbouring countries.
The only difference between Israel and a terrorist organization is PR and budget.
And religion. Quite some Christians love Israel, no matter what, because the Bible. Yes, it’s a fantastic argument. And as long as the victims are muslims, they’ll support Israel. If you’re not disgusted by the wars in the old testament, why would you in present day?
Wait these genocidal idiots really called it “Operation Narnia”?
wtf
vomits on ground
This would be disgusting if it was just a normal act of war, of killing soldiers and calling it a cute name like this to disguise how any war is a tragedy, but there is a much more serious red flag here about Israel and Israeli society, this shows a blatant disregard for the humanity of these SCIENTISTS by assassinating them and making a joke out of it about sending them to dream land. Not only is this murder, the motive is a blatant lie, Iran was not developing a nuclear weapon that is undeniable and unarguable based on the overwhelming evidence.
If you still think that Israel and the US aren’t coming for science, freedom of thought and peace in general you are a fool. I live in the heart of this dying empire, the US, and let me tell you, they are coming for you if you are a scientist, run or fight, either is fine but pick one soon before it is too late.
Meanwhile Iran is always promising to ethnically cleanse Jews from the Middle East constantly chanting “death to Israel” and they call what they do “Operation True Promise” when targeting civilian population centers while saying to Israeli civilians “Either you must choose ‘gradual death’ in hellish life in shelters or save your lives from the 24-hour missile rain and flee as soon as possible from the lands usurped by your ancestors, so that you may survive.” I guess that’s a sign of a healthy society?
There’s also Operation Rising Lion. Iran’s flag used to have a Lion on it. Israel doesn’t seem to want to destroy Iran unlike Iran’s “True Promise” to wipe Israel off the map. But you can take “Rising Lion” to mean they want Iran to rise from being a country run by authoritarian religious nutjobs.
These are some really wild and generalizing claims about Iran and Iranian people and honestly you should be ashamed of yourself.
As someone on the left in the US I want to make it clear I think you are behaving in a pathetic way and yet I would never draw conclusions about Israelis or Israel the way you just casually did about Iranians even though Israel is committing a Genocide Of Palestinians. There are many Iranians with a wide variety of views on Israel, but no… they do not desire a genocide of Israelis the way Israelis desire a genocide of Palestinians that is the ugly truth and yet even as I perceive it I know there is nothing inherent to Israelis that makes them incapable of seeing the humanity of Palestinians because I know all too well how easy it is to fall into the same awful mindset as someone from the US.
This is ALL a choice about how we flatten other groups into simple narratives. The most important thing about leftism to me is never forgetting that.
I come from a war-like society, I can respect the call to war when it is done out of a genuine desire to defend what you hold dear, Israel’s call to war is not a call to war it is a call to genocide and it reimagines the atrocities of US colonization reflected and reanimated into a modern middle eastern conflict. I will not stand for it, I will resist the dehumanization of all people, Iranians, Palestinians, Israelis, Muslisms, Jews… we are people alike.
Also there is NO evidence that Iran has been pursuing producing a nuclear weapon for… decades?
You literally just posted paragraphs of bold text with wild and generalizing claims about Israel and Israeli people. Someone needs to be ashamed of themselves here, and maybe exercise a little self awareness?
I am clearly talking about the Ayatollah regime’s officially stated goals, not the Iranian people. I’m also mentioning the opportunity for Iranians to have a better government. It’s obviously up to the Iranian people if they want a better government, I think we all know at this point that regime change has to come from within a country.
Since you’re someone on the left, you you seemed to have picked up the nasty habit of feeling entitled to speak on behalf of other people. If you’re not Iranian please don’t act like you know what’s best for them. That’s a very “white man’s burden” mentality that’s become prevalent in the left.
The oppressive authoritarian regime that’s ruling over Iran has been weakened. It’s up to the Iranian people what they want to do next. It’s not up to me or you.
The story of Israel is the story of the US in many ways, and the same species of denial reflected, shattered and mutated into a new context with different pre-existing histories doesn’t change the nature of this, that it is the same old process of colonialism violently denying itself. I recognize the primal scream because I have shamefully participated in it in the past cycles of this story, not because I actually understand myself as impervious to its violent impulse.
This has nothing to do with religion, any -ism, any broad category of people, it is just the nature of how colonialism was designed to divide us.
This isn’t university, you can talk normal here.
Are you telling me this isn’t a wizard school?! Wait
I understood that comment. I legit don’t know what you were saying in the previous one.
Jesus they killed everyone in the apartment complex including their kids how is this not a war crime?!?
Under the rules of war, no. The rules of war does not consider civilians casualties a crime if they happen while targeting military or military support, like weapons manufacturing.
If it were, then you could just fire missiles at your enemies from the tops of apartment buildings and they couldn’t do anything about it. Yeah Hamas did do that and did make claims of war crimes whenever they got hit, but not actually a war crime. Because if it were it would encourage every military in the world to use human shields and every war becomes as horrible as the war in Gaza.
What did we say about based takes on Lemmy?
From my reading of the article, that was a hypothetical. Not to say it hasn’t happened multiple times but I’m pretty sure that “may” was doing some heavy lifting.
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Where did it say that? Are you creating outrage just for the sake of outrage? What’s the benefit?
Commentary:
You’re linking to the Times of Israel. Since the news outlet operates in Israel, it is subject to censorship by the IDF, and they have chosen to use their power to censor the article and omit weapon types.
If you want information about assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists, get their list from Wikipedia and google each of their names, looking for descriptions.
en.wikipedia.org/…/Assassinations_of_Iranian_nucl…
My guess: guided missile or drone strikes. All the assassinations happened at a time of Israeli air strikes over Iran. Whatever weapon was used, was deployed from airplanes. Given the high profile of the targets, Israeli intelligence agencies did their job this time (in Gaza, they seem to be feeding their troops low quality AI slop).
Surely this will work wonders, they’ll never recover from this. Also they won’t have any incentive, because why would you even consider building a bomb in such a friendly environment? Why would there need to be an axis of resistance, let them surrender unconditionally like Trump suggested, because clearly Israel and the US are to be trusted. If only these damned Iranians remained at the negotiating table while we bombed the shit out of them unprovoked. I guess they don’t want peace. /s
And don’t forget the US will again get to decide to arbitrarily discard any nuclear agreements, which is of course another great incentive for Iran to not start a military nuclear program.
10 assassinations of relatively innocent people simultaneously. Straight out of Walter white’s playbook when he went full villain.
They aren’t innocent, they are knowingly creating a devastating weapon of mass destruction for a regime who has declared that they intend to use it. While I don’t support this sort of unprovoked attack, I can’t get too worked up over the demise of literally mad scientists.
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I too find Boeing engineers and other factory workers valid targets for murder. Nice finding a fellow.
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Narnia? What an odd name. What did they kill them with, a lion or a wardrobe?
I think the name schemes were themed around fantasy fiction because that is what the AI produces and therefor its outputs need to be vetted properly.
The Lyin’ Bitch and the War Globe.
What is the endgame here? They certainly can’t be delusional enough to assume that killing civilians or bombing facilities will ingratiate them with the Iranian people to overthrow the government or even making the government surrender; how many more people will they radicalize through this process? How many more lives do they want to destroy? When will the middle east have peace?
I have gotten cynical to the point of assuming the “endgame” here is properly kicking off WW3, so that Trump gets an excuse to drop a nuke or two on an adversary.
“The last time we had a world war, we won it! We were the best - and we won it with our nukes, our big beautiful nukes - it’s really a shame we haven’t used them since, don’t you think? We ended the war by dropping 2 on Japan, and now Japan is our best friend. Why don’t we drop some nukes on Iran? Don’t we want them to be our friend?”
Or the evangelicals in Trump’s ear are trying to bring about the end of the world to kick off the rapture or some goofy ass psycho shit.
Yes, and he wants to drop a nuke so bad he cant STAND it
Also, wasn’t Trump the reason the largest non-nuclear bomb in the USA arsenal was first used in combat? The bomb that had never been deployed in the almost 15 years since it’s creation specifically because the US military thought it would create too many civilian casualties?
The same Trump that allegedly wanted to nuke hurricanes to disrupt them before they hit the US’s coast?
The dude just wants to play with the shiny toys and see things go “boom”. He has literally stated to his own biographer that
(source: The Week)
I suppose it suits him just fine that Israel is now flirting with open warfare with their neighbors.
Well, I think Israel are horrible villains here, but I also think Iran might be a lot better off without the theocratic regime and with disarmed warfare capabilities. In a more ideal world, Iran would de-escelate and make amiccable relations with the west to avoid any future conflicts. In the world we actually live in, Israel is probably hankering for a hunk of that pie and will expand their borders.
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Comments going against Israel - so you agree that Iran should have nuclear weapons?
I don’t think that anybody should have nuclear weapons. Do you support assassinating scientists?
Absolutely. It is crystal fucking clear that Iran will never be safe until it has nuclear deterrence.
Comments going for Israel - so you agree that Israel should have nuclear weapons?
Bomb Israel, don’t let those Nazi’s have nukes.
It’s the only rational course of action we have left for them. They would be insane not to try. I don’t know if they will succeed. Mosad seems all powerful, but they will certainly try.
Only because genocidal zionazi supremacists control the us, and by extension g7+nato, Iran should not pursue nuclear energy, because Israel would always accuse them of pursuing more. There is no economic value for nuclear energy. Solar + batteries much more effective.
Still, negotiations to that end are far more human. I wouldn’t want you to have nuclear weapons, but killing you should have a better reason Than my supremacy.
Murdered. Not killed, murdered.
Both technically true, but the way they write killed suggests it wasn’t murder in cold blood, an act of war against another country to bully and control them.
Murder.
I think assassinated is the appropriate term here as it’s politically motivated.
the word “kill” is typically used in regards to warfare, not murder, so I’m not sure why you would say in this instance that it was written as though it wasn’t an act of war.
I generally don’t believe Iran was on its way to building nuclear weapons, only nuclear energy. But, if we were to entertain for a moment the notion that they were, this is all pretty badass no?
But, since it’s not the case this whole thing is frightening. Israel is a terrorist state and I’m tired of pretending otherwise.