Microsoft 365 sees 43% price hike thanks to Copilot — existing customers safe until renewal (www.tomshardware.com)
from misk@sopuli.xyz to technology@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 08:52
https://sopuli.xyz/post/21552462

#technology

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Uli@sopuli.xyz on 18 Jan 10:06 next collapse

I spent about 20 minutes today trying to get Copilot on Word to tell me how to disable Copilot on Word. Worth every penny.

vaderaj@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 10:25 next collapse

The clippy we all deserved

leisesprecher@feddit.org on 18 Jan 11:35 next collapse

I really wonder what their long term plan is here.

Hardly anyone really wants copilot, it doesn’t add a lot of value, yet makes the product less competitive.

I totally get rent seeking, Office is so ingrained that it’s almost impossible to get away from it. But why force AI on everybody? Why not add it as a bonus?

Is this just a desperate attempt to soften the massive losses of the AI investment?

Jestzer@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 13:47 next collapse

To please the shareholders. Then, when AI is no longer deemed valuable and its tremendous costs sink in, they will remove it and layoff the teams that worked on it, to please the shareholders.

Blum0108@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 14:07 next collapse

But they’ll keep the prices high

leisesprecher@feddit.org on 18 Jan 14:36 collapse

That’s way too simplistic, as often.

For the shareholders, having an investment of several billions turn into an unwanted add-on for a few dollars is not a good thing. It’s the opposite, almost like a fire sale.

01189998819991197253@infosec.pub on 18 Jan 14:25 next collapse

It’s not for you. It’s for them. Copilot digests everything you type into the Office apps, and it provides them with millions of real writing examples that are free from copyright (read the new Office EULA).

leisesprecher@feddit.org on 18 Jan 14:39 collapse

And then what? Also, that won’t be legal in the EU.

I mean, you take billions of dollars to develop an AI to put into a product you already have, making it less competitive in the process to … develop a slightly better AI maybe?

Where exactly is the return on investment here?

01189998819991197253@infosec.pub on 18 Jan 14:46 next collapse

I don’t disagree [with your comment (I absolutely disagree with what ms is doing)].

However, like with all technology in the past, where the civilian market received the obsolete military technologies (think, internet, cellphones, gps, and wifi), the consumer facing LLM/AI capabilities are likely nowhere near what the bleeding edge is in the military sector. The consumer facing Copilot is a product to make it “legal enough” to harvest your data, and the EULA people agreed to without reading is the nail on the coffin in that defense. The end product has nothing to do with copilot, office, or even us civilians. We’re just the vehicle.

[Edit in brackets]

freebee@sh.itjust.works on 18 Jan 22:14 collapse

Why would this not be legal in EU if the conditions of using the copilot are clearly stated in the agreement? GDPR etc is mostly just that: requirement for clear language + informed consent.

NutWrench@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 18:04 collapse

The AI hardware isn’t for us. It’s for Google and Microsoft, so they can steal your computer’s CPU time and hard drive space so they can build their own personal Skynets. (Same thing with CoPilot, which requires 50gigs of your hard drive space. You’re also paying for the privilege of being spied on, which is nice for them, I guess.)

x00z@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 17:03 next collapse

First thing I do with the Google Assistent on Android Phones is to tell it to disable itself. Cool thing is that it does.

Lemminary@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 23:53 collapse

You can do that??

stephen01king@lemmy.zip on 19 Jan 07:47 collapse

Just call the sales team and get the classic plan. No more having to deal with Copilot and you get the old price back.

Thorry84@feddit.nl on 18 Jan 10:27 next collapse

They should have made it opt-in instead of opt-out IMHO. You can still get the old subscription when you renew, but you have to jump through a couple of hoops. If you do nothing you just get “upgraded” for no reason.

eran_morad@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 11:30 collapse

Dolla dolla bill.

9point6@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 10:30 next collapse

If they actually bundled a game pass subscription with it and made a proper Microsoft complete subscription they could have softened the bad press they’re getting on this (and giving customers something they’ve wanted for a while)

That and the fact that they’ve nearly doubled the price of the subscription to add a limited credit based feature just looks pretty slimy

very_well_lost@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 11:04 next collapse

bundled a game pass subscription

Most of the money MS gets from Office365 is from business users, not home users. I have a feeling that trying to sell game pass to corporate clients isn’t going to be a huge hit…

9point6@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 11:14 collapse

Sure and it would be silly to mess with the professional tiers

But personal and family subscriptions are fairly squarely positioned towards non-business users as their main demographics, from what I can see.

TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 11:11 collapse

Why on earth would they bundle gamepass into Office365? Office365 is pretty much used for business and educational institutions. Everybody else is a rounding error.

The overlap between Office365 owners and Xbox gamers is extremely small.

You’d just end up pissing everybody off by combining them

  • “They’ve added how much to the price by adding this gamer nonsense?! I don’t need that crap, I want office software!”

  • “They’ve added how much to the price by including fucking PowerPoint and Outlook?! I don’t need that crap, I want to play games!”

And not to defend MS, but a 43% increase isn’t nearly doubling. A 100% increase would be doubling.

9point6@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 11:50 collapse

It’s called Microsoft 365 now

Office 365 was when it was just a business productivity suite

They renamed it when they pivoted it to a general subscription and started adding things like clipchamp.

I mentioned in another comment though that I agree it would be silly to mess with the professional skus, but the home & family ones would make perfect sense to offer as an option at the very least (just as they’re offering 365 without copilot for the time being).

I’m also not saying get rid of the independent subscriptions for Xbox, that would also be silly.

Just that a merged one would make a lot of sense for the people out there paying for both (which I reckon is a good number in the family subscription category at least)

j4yt33@feddit.org on 18 Jan 10:30 next collapse

Clippy is back!

FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 10:45 next collapse

GOZER
The choice is made. The Traveller has come.

VENKMAN
We didn't choose anything?!!  I didn't think of an image, did you?

SPENGLER
No.

WINSTON
My mind's a total void!

[They all look at Ray]

RAY
I couldn't help it! It just popped in
there!

VENKMAN
What? What just popped in there?
cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 18 Jan 10:59 next collapse

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/7ea74eea-ca83-40e1-9c8d-4b90b535c90b.webp">

FourPacketsOfPeanuts@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 11:32 collapse

SPENGLER
I have a radical idea... The door swings both ways. We could reverse the particle flow through the gate...

RAY
How? 

SPENGLER
... we'll resize a table in Word 

VENKMAN
Excuse me, Egon.  You said resizing a table was bad...

RAY
[with realisation]
... resize the table...

VENKMAN 
You're going to endanger us.  You're going to endanger our client; the nice lady who paid us in advance before she turned into a dog

SPENGLER 
Not necessarily.  There's definitely a very slim chance we'll survive..

WINSTON
...

RAY
...

VENKMAN
I love this plan! I'm excited to be a part of it!  Let's do it! 
cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 18 Jan 12:58 collapse
Malfeasant@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 23:54 collapse

It looks like you’re summoning a minor demon!

Lemminary@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 23:55 collapse

If they dressed it up as Clippy I wouldn’t be mad, tbh.

Sparky@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 18 Jan 12:02 next collapse

www.onlyoffice.com
Or
www.libreoffice.org

01189998819991197253@infosec.pub on 18 Jan 14:17 next collapse

I need to try onlyoffice again. The last time I tried, was the original beta, and it was faulty (being a first release beta, and all)

Sparky@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 18 Jan 14:30 collapse

Oh onlyoffice works great! It’s spreadsheet function is far less buggy than excel and it’s smooth and snappy.

01189998819991197253@infosec.pub on 18 Jan 14:33 next collapse

Sweet! I’ve been using MS at work (required) and Libre at home (because screw MS). I’ll give Only another go!

sic_semper_tyrannis@lemmy.today on 18 Jan 15:37 collapse

OnlyOffice spreadsheet has less functionality than Excel but unless you are a super power user then it’s not a problem.

cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 18 Jan 14:35 next collapse

the only problem with onlyoffice is that it’s electron.

Damage@feddit.it on 18 Jan 17:47 next collapse

Ew

dnzm@feddit.nl on 18 Jan 18:14 next collapse

Ehh, I’m fairly sure it’s not. It certainly wasn’t in the past. When do you believe that changed?

Never mind, you were talking about OO, not LO, my bad.

FenrirIII@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 19:42 next collapse

Are you positive?

TrippaSnippa@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 06:44 collapse

No, they’re negative.

kate@lemmy.uhhoh.com on 19 Jan 06:16 collapse

forum.onlyoffice.com/t/…/3

Chromium embedded framework, not electron. Similar concept, though.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 15:47 next collapse

Onlyoffice is apparently Russian, headquartered in Latvia.

humble_pete_digger@lemm.ee on 18 Jan 17:31 next collapse

Latvia is not Russia, unless something recently changed

someguy3@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 18:03 next collapse

JFC it can be russian owned and russian controlled and russian employed and pay russian taxes while “headquartered” in Latvia.

corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca on 18 Jan 18:14 collapse

Latvia is not Russia

Yet.

And if you look on a Russian map, I’m sure it’s there already.

Prandom_returns@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 02:13 collapse

What? Latvia is a part of NATO.

eager_eagle@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 02:11 collapse

what does it even mean to be russian then?

someguy3@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 19:37 collapse

You know, almost entirely staffed by Russians (outside of Latvia), the executive suite is Russian, shareholders are Russian, etc.

Like have you guys never heard of companies being “headquartered” in the Cayman Islands?

eager_eagle@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 19:39 collapse

Sure, now why would that be a factor for choosing a software or not.

You didn’t choose the country you were born in anymore than they did.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 19:46 collapse

Seriously?

eager_eagle@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 19:47 collapse

yes, very much

if your only argument is the nationality of the people involved, it’s a bad one.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 19:58 collapse

If you haven’t noticed there’s a war going on. This is the weirdest conversation I’ve had, at best you’re playing the fool. I’m out.

eager_eagle@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 20:09 collapse

yes, and developers are civilians.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 20:23 collapse

And who do they pay taxes to? Russia. JFC why do I bother. Ciao.

Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone on 19 Jan 00:07 collapse

So Libre Office is free?

If it does what regular office suit does i would happily pay 300 dollars for it to have it as mine and not be fucked with

redshift@lemmy.ml on 19 Jan 02:43 next collapse

Free forever, and works great.

excral@feddit.org on 19 Jan 09:45 next collapse

Free and open source, but if you’re willing to pay, you could donate to the project.

Moobythegoldensock@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 15:44 collapse

Is this your first exposure to FOSS? If so, you are in for a treat. There’s a whole world of free, open source software out there for you to enjoy.

Yeah, it’s 100% free.

stephen01king@lemmy.zip on 18 Jan 12:07 next collapse

You can call the sales team and ask them to change your subscription to the classic version to opt-out of Copilot and get the old price back, if you still need the subscription over changing to other open source office suites.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 07:00 next collapse

This should be illegal.

stephen01king@lemmy.zip on 19 Jan 07:42 collapse

I agree.

teohhanhui@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 08:04 collapse

You don’t have to contact them anymore.

…microsoft.com/…/switching-to-microsoft-365-perso…

stephen01king@lemmy.zip on 19 Jan 08:48 collapse

That’s what the support person said to me as well, but I didn’t get that option when I tried to cancel the subscription. My guess is that it wasn’t rolled out globally just yet, so if anyone didn’t find this option you can just contact the sales team to downgrade.

Etterra@discuss.online on 18 Jan 13:17 next collapse

Meanwhile, smart people: I sure do love Libre Office.

Laser@feddit.org on 18 Jan 14:00 next collapse

If smart people love libreoffice, then I must be dumb. Working with it always seems weird and I never like it.

Fortunately, I can use LaTeX for work; it is far from without issues but while being arcane sometimes (especially when tables are involved), it never really upsets me and the result looks very good. I can say neither for libreoffice or MS office. But at least the former doesn’t charge for the experience.

I hope typst gains more traction; it seems really intuitive compared to TeX and you don’t necessarily need a macro package. And while it doesn’t produce the quality of TeX-based systems yet, it is already good. Then again, Knuth’s goal first and foremost goal was quality (and it shows); the system just had to be usable by him.

01189998819991197253@infosec.pub on 18 Jan 14:08 next collapse

Don’t forget GPT4All or JanAI, for those rare instances that you want to converse with a dumbass.

corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca on 18 Jan 18:12 next collapse

Libre Office.

Honestly - and flame away - I hate the name. I hate saying it. It’s the ‘moist’ of borrowed words. Leeeeeeeebr. And I’m a Canadian who did French up to university-level conversational “explain something for 20 min” French (from a gorgeous caribbean dynamo teacher, but I justif–uh, digress) so I know how to say the word and what it means.

And I still hate it. I’m a horrible person – even before I continued French study because the prof was so engaging and energetic and brightened every room and every day and made French interesting just on inclusion.

Telodzrum@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 21:39 next collapse

Lee-bray

nomy@lemmy.zip on 19 Jan 01:25 next collapse

Lee-ber

Telodzrum@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 02:11 collapse

Absolutely not

Threeme2189@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jan 06:41 next collapse

Lee-bra, like libra

bluewing@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 11:30 collapse

I pronounce it AbbyWord and Gnumeric. I’m too old to have need of a full office suite anymore-- Libre or not.

Lemminary@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 23:50 next collapse

Glad I’m not the only one questioning the name! I have a pet theory that if they changed it it’d be more popular.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 06:58 collapse

I feel bad for canadians learning french. It’s a language that’s only useful in like, 1.5 places in the world.

I genuinely believe french canadians are hurting their next generation by filling their heads with nonsense of a dying culture. Kind of like how racists fill their kids’ heads with garbage because they’re afraid of becoming irrelevant.

Miaou@jlai.lu on 19 Jan 10:29 next collapse

We should all bow to the American overlords indeed. Coca cola and burgers are the peek of humanity

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 10:52 collapse

Wow… do french canadians really believe that learning french is a way to fight back against America?

Just… wow. I knew they were delusional an insecure, but this really puts things into perspective for me.

Glad we could have this conversation.

bluewing@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 11:28 collapse

French Canadians, (Québécois), believe it’s a way to fight other Canadians. If it works against Americans? Well that’s just a bonus.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 11:28 collapse

Yikes.

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 13:28 collapse

There are over three hundred thousand million people speaking it. On all continents. It’s fairly useful. Maybe you should travel more.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 13:55 collapse

Over three hundred thousand million people? On all continents?

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 17:35 collapse

Ok, I mistyped, it’s three hundred million. Don’t know where that thousand came from. :)

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 17:42 collapse

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/d1c4e7a9-05c9-486a-b71a-f39323e8167a.jpeg">

Looks like if I want to learn French, I’ll be able to speak it in:

-France

-A few place in Canada that also speak English

-France’s colonies in Africa

-A tiny country in South America most people can’t name by looking at this picture

I rest my case. French canadians are pretentious about the significance of the french language. They don’t want to admit it’s a niche language and they want to waste people’s time learning it in schools because they had to waste their time learning it. They don’t want to admit it was and still is a waste of time and energy for those who are not predominantly interested in specifically French/French canadian culture.

Source for picture: en.wikipedia.org/…/Geographical_distribution_of_F…

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 18:00 collapse

It’s ok, you don’t have to learn French, nobody’s forcing you.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 18:02 collapse

It’s not about me, try not to project your own selfishness onto everyone else.

There are students in Canada wasting their time learning french because “French canadians are pretentious about the significance of the french language. They don’t want to admit it’s a niche language and they want to waste people’s time learning it in schools because they had to waste their time learning it. They don’t want to admit it was and still is a waste of time and energy for those who are not predominantly interested in specifically French/French canadian culture.”

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 18:07 collapse

It’s an official language of their country, why wouldn’t they learn it?

It’s as stupid as saying one shouldn’t learn English because it’ll be displaced by Chinese or hindi anyway.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 18:09 collapse

French canadians are pretentious about the significance of the french language. They don’t want to admit it’s a niche language and they want to waste people’s time learning it in schools because they had to waste their time learning it. They don’t want to admit it was and still is a waste of time and energy for those who are not predominantly interested in specifically French/French canadian culture.

I guess I can just keep repeating this. No, it’s not the same as learning English.

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 18:13 collapse

Ok.

Kyouki@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 06:04 collapse

OnlyOffice for those feeling that Office style itch.

Sinuousity@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 14:03 next collapse

More anti consumer garbage forced by a monopolistic juggernaut which the governments of the world refuse to do more than mildly scold. It’s worse than chatgpt and pops up almost everywhere you click. Something about heads in asses

dan1101@lemm.ee on 18 Jan 14:06 next collapse

The fact that people are subscribing to office software is the biggest problem here. What sort of technical breakthroughs require so many updates that a subscription is necessary?

01189998819991197253@infosec.pub on 18 Jan 14:13 next collapse

Privacy-stealing telemetry changes often, so the subscription is to make sure that’s updated and works. You gotta pay for the privilege of being datarummaged by the likes of Microsoft The Great.

boonhet@lemm.ee on 18 Jan 15:00 next collapse

It is. Remember when they just made a new version every 3 years and you didn’t REALLY need to buy the latest one if you had the previous one?

Well that didn’t make them enough money.

stephen01king@lemmy.zip on 19 Jan 07:49 collapse

They still do that, though.

boonhet@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 10:50 collapse

Yes, but you have to know that they do. They only advertise 365 on their website.

shalafi@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 16:07 next collapse

Excel has most businesses in a headlock. Can’t see why anyone else pays for M$. I have Office, but it’s a permanent license from my last job. When I upgrade, say bye bye.

stephen01king@lemmy.zip on 19 Jan 07:50 collapse

Exactly, the only reason I have the subscription is for Excel and OneDrive. My NAS and home network is still not good enough to cover the backup needs of my whole family.

HeyJoe@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 16:14 next collapse

As much as they are pushing to stop 1 time purchases of office, they do still offer it. I purchased a license for like $20 off a discount site for Office 2021, and i have no clue why people need a subscription plan for this. It would take some very specific needs for that to ever be needed and I’m sure a huge percentage would be just fine with the 1 time purchase that lasts 3-4 years of support.

As for businesses that part stinks… once you get integrated with all the services offered, it’s going to take a lot to back out since it’s not just office they are probably subscribed to but everything else that enterprise has to offer. They are absolutely banking on people to suck it up and accept the position they are in and give in. It’s awful, but at the same time if your business went all in and didn’t anticipate this then they didn’t do their job if you ask me when vetting everything. This feels similar to the recent buyout of VMware and are now pushing insane new license costs. The problem is they went to high where despite the effort it will take to change products people have to. We can only hope Microsoft is on the edge of crossing that line.

x00z@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 17:02 next collapse

They need money to fix all the exploits in that spaghetti software.

corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca on 18 Jan 18:14 collapse

money to fix all the exploits in that spaghetti software.

This decade for SURE! We promise!

eager_eagle@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 02:14 collapse

the technical breakthrough of increasing shareholder value

Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 18 Jan 14:21 next collapse

“You remember that llm we spend billions of dollars on, that nobody asked for? Well we’re done half baking it into all our apps and now we’re almost doubling our prices to help pay for it all.”

The logic of the utterly deranged…

humble_pete_digger@lemm.ee on 18 Jan 17:22 collapse

They did the same with 3.5 jack removal from phones, charged more for less

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 07:00 collapse

So glad I got a free phone from Visible after they were going to update their network and claimed my Galaxy S8 wouldn’t be compatible.

Best phone I ever had, and it has a 3.5mm headphone jack.

Suck on that, apple losers.

cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 18 Jan 14:33 next collapse

why not just do:

microsoft 365: 6.99

microsoft 365 + copilot: 9.99

<img alt="blobcat, think" src="https://blahaj.zone/files/7e1c6e82-7018-4d41-b0bc-4920e150aff4">

wioum@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 14:38 next collapse

You damn well know why they dont do that $$$

someguy3@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 15:42 next collapse

Moar profit.

Romkslrqusz@lemm.ee on 18 Jan 16:22 next collapse

… second paragraph of the article:

In addition to the basic plans getting Copilot rolled in, there are now additional “Basic,” “Personal Classic,” and “Family Classic” tiers without Copilot and “other advanced features” added for users who do not use AI in their workflows

corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca on 18 Jan 18:08 next collapse

why not just do:

microsoft 365: 6.99

microsoft 365 + copilot: 9.99

Make the easy thing the better-for-sales thing, obviously.

But seriously, negative-approval has been a sales enabler for ever. People will often just roll over and accept it vs churning to something else. That’s why ‘loss-leader’ works, as people will start with one product and sunk-cost fallacy will keep them from churning as the vendor tightens the screw.

Couldbealeotard@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 05:07 next collapse

They did exactly that, except they changed the name of the original subscription to “classic” and upgraded everyone to the more expensive plan without asking.

This is actually illegal in some countries, and I hope they get fined for it.

Malfeasant@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 21:31 collapse

I’m sure they will get fined for it, and the fine will be considerably less than the extra money they take in from people who don’t notice…

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 07:03 next collapse

Hey guys, let’s stop ending prices in .99 in our social interactions.

It’s a relic that only exists to take advantage of people’s psychology. We shouldn’t be doing the dirty work for corporations.

Here, let me help:

why not just do:

microsoft 365: $7

microsoft 365 + copilot: $10

Don’t type more so you can help businesses fool people into thinking prices are lower than they actually are.

stephen01king@lemmy.zip on 19 Jan 07:48 collapse

Because they’re fucking stupid and thinks fucking over their customers brings in more profit.

CatsGoMOW@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 14:53 next collapse

Phew, this was a good reminder since I was meaning to cancel my subscription anyway. It was going to auto renew in 2 days. 😬

someguy3@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 15:45 next collapse

Make it too expensive and people will switch to Google docs.

shalafi@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 16:06 next collapse

Excel is the deal breaker on that. My last company was all Google products and auth, but I still had to buy Excel for the accounting and HR teams.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 16:52 collapse

Um excel certainly has its places, but accounting? Don’t they have actual dedicated software for accounting? HR? Like payroll? Again don’t they have actual software for that?

And I was thinking personal use, whose costs were posted. $100 a year, fuck that.

send_me_your_ink@lemmynsfw.com on 18 Jan 17:03 next collapse

See you think that - but excel finds a way. We have what are lovingly called the “spreadsheets of doom” which accounting uses to manage all forecasts, and the bits that involve money flows. Did you know you can hook excel into Salesforce and pull all the sales records? A person who thinks her monitor is her computer (she has a Dell laptop) somehow found a way…

someguy3@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 17:05 collapse

I remember my dad had a problem and asked if he had to take the monitor or the tower to the shop.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 17:54 collapse

It’s hard to believe, but I work at a Fortune 100 company that’s still heavily reliant on Excel.

Sure, we have specific software as System of Record (Oracle suite, mainly). But for all the day to day estimating and calculating and reporting and other noodling, people routinely export to Excel and play with numbers from there.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 18:01 collapse

The point is you can use google docs or Libreoffice for day to day mundane things.

It’s only the huge power features that you need Excel for, maybe in engineering. For accounting when you get to that power feature point I’m surprised there isn’t dedicated software.

toddestan@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 22:02 collapse

Excel is a spreadsheet, and spreadsheets like Excel are first and foremost aimed at accounting sort of tasks. Whether they actually need Excel versus something like Google Docs or Libreoffice is another thing. The big thing with Excel is that it gets used (and abused) to do things that it’s not really intended for doing such as those spreadsheets that are full of macros trying to be an application, or those spreadsheets that are trying to be a database, and so forth.

From an engineering perspective, I find Excel to be annoying because it’s clearly first and foremost an accounting tool, and some of its behaviors like the way it rounds numbers and tries to turn everything into a date is downright obnoxious. I still use it from time to time for quick and dirty things like whipping up a couple of plots quickly (and this doesn’t really need Excel… but at work all the computers have Excel), but otherwise for anything more complicated I’d probably switch to something else.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 22:36 collapse

Like it’s a fun number cruncher, but for serious accounting that’s tied into point of sale, accounts receivable, accounts payable, etc you really should be running something dedicated. That’s why there are all these software companies making bank when from the outside you can’t quite figure out what they do.

Protip on excel, when you start a new sheet ctrl+a, ctrl+1, change to number.

Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca on 18 Jan 17:37 next collapse

Google workspace just pulled the same crap with Gemini

someguy3@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 18:01 next collapse

The point is it’s free.

raker@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 01:54 collapse

Last week at us.

First question I asked the evil twin was: “How can I deactivate Gemini and never hear from it again?” Support article poped up, where must opt out from some Labs setting or some bs, but only a workspace admin can do it.

Ended up with blocking that flare button with uBo. Problem solved.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 07:06 collapse

The fact it costs anything at all, let alone a subscription, should be enough for the working class to seek other options.

This generation has sold itself out to the lowest bidder.

RickyWars@lemmy.ca on 18 Jan 16:01 next collapse

For existing customers, the price hike won’t be kicking in until plan renewal, and there are options to downgrade the plan. Those who want to avoid using AI can downgrade the plan to the “Classic” or “Basic” Microsoft 365 plans.

Thankfully we can roll back to the “Classic Family Plan” without the AI features. But annoying that they automatically switched plans and I had to switch back. If I didn’t see this article I’d be up for a big price hike when it renewed.

thann@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 18 Jan 16:28 next collapse

Everyone experiencing this should be thinking “man, I gotta ditch Microsoft before they try to fuck me again”

RickyWars@lemmy.ca on 18 Jan 17:26 next collapse

Absolutely. This has made me acutely aware that my days with MS are numbered.

corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca on 18 Jan 18:04 collapse

NO one using Microsoft is doing so by choice. If we haven’t learned in 30 years, then fuck us.

frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe on 18 Jan 18:46 collapse

Their office suite is still the winner.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 06:56 collapse

Not really. Office software has reached diminishing returns over a decade ago.

stephen01king@lemmy.zip on 19 Jan 07:44 collapse

Nah, it’s all hinges on Excel. It’s still unbeatable at this point.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 06:55 collapse

But annoying that they automatically switched plans and I had to switch back.

Should be illegal.

Frostbeard@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 17:08 next collapse

Fuck the MS suite is such garbage. My work was sold in for Teams with all the BS. Now I have to either map up the filepath creating what we used to have, or I can’t see the file folder and make a call at the same time. Onenote with it’s arbitrary syncing. And good luck finding it again since it stored at some random place if you loose access.

Word and excel is decent, but for a person who likes to tinker with versions it’s a nightmare to invite people to edit it.

Cluncky interface, slow and bloated all around

hansolo@lemm.ee on 18 Jan 18:28 next collapse

The degree to which MS Teams can get fucked by the horse it rode in on is proportional to the number of registry entries their bloatware has on first install.

TroublesomeTalker@feddit.uk on 19 Jan 07:10 collapse

It’s very “lipstick on a pig”, but you can run the PWA side by side with the native desktop. I have many screens so I keep non-call activity in the PWA version to avoid this nonsense.

I’m sure they will add tabs eventually as an afterthought and make it even more obtuse though.

I also reflexively delete the personal OneNotes and start a new one where I want it to be, but the war between me and Microsoft about how I want my personal documents stored has now raged for many many years.

BestBouclettes@jlai.lu on 18 Jan 17:23 next collapse

Damn, we really didn’t see that coming now did we? Can’t wait until Amazon pulls that trigger on AWS.

flop_leash_973@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 17:41 next collapse

Makes me glad I continue to use the free Google and MS Office options and keep my cloud storage with a service that is dedicated to just storage.

Cuts down on all of the forced price increases due to the AI mess the MBAs need to justify the expense of.

secret300@lemmy.sdf.org on 18 Jan 17:52 next collapse

Oh shit maybe we’ll see someone companies switch to an alternative instead of paying microshit more money

corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca on 18 Jan 18:02 next collapse

Yeah. So it’s

  1. thunderbird
  2. some add-on

right? I forget the name of that add-on.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/8294f937-8dcf-4312-8421-ad1cf5a16004.png">

No, that’s not it. I thought it was Open-Xchange; yeah, that’s it. But it’s only web-based, and not Tbird-based. Let’s ask Co-pilot again:

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/03f5c118-8a5a-49c6-927d-7b5cb87603c2.png">

THERE it is.

But I learned there’s a second alternative, so that’s cool. See? Co-pilot has value!

filcuk@lemmy.zip on 18 Jan 21:00 next collapse

Like using Edge to download Firefox, I approve

InFerNo@lemmy.ml on 18 Jan 23:43 next collapse

Zentyal replaces windows server. It has active directory, file server, print server, domain controller and mail server, all in a way compatible with Microsofts products, but it’s Linux. I worked with it many years ago and it did what it says on the tin. I haven’t worked with newer versions.

In this case the AI is kinda wrong. It’s not a Thunderbird replacement in any way, rather an OWA replacement and Exchange alternative. You could use Thunderbird to connect to it probably.

What you could use is the Thunderbird extension TbSync, or Owl. Both work, but TbSync is free.

pyre@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 08:56 collapse

is there a thunderbird equivalent that looks like it was made after 1992?

thatradomguy@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 03:01 next collapse

I keep seeing posts by NextCloud on Mastodon. Has anyone had any experience using those guys?

Rin@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 05:51 next collapse

Nextcloud is decent but it depends on what you want. Personally, I’d never use it again due to performance reasons but it’s a decent platform for cloud editing and stuff.

I switched to Syncthing for file management across my devices. With it, I can sync my Joplin notes. It’s all I need in life. It was also easier to set up than a Nextcloud instance.

lightsblinken@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 23:09 collapse

nextcloud is awesome, highly recommend.

fatalicus@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 08:10 collapse

This is for the personal licenses, not business or enterprise.

secret300@lemmy.sdf.org on 19 Jan 13:10 collapse

wack

Soulifix@kbin.melroy.org on 18 Jan 18:07 next collapse

I doubt Microsoft Word has changed that much for me to theoretically subscribe just to see it's 365 counterpart. Still rocking the 2007 version.

theangryseal@lemmy.world on 18 Jan 20:37 next collapse

Me too haha. One of the first things I install.

Taleya@aussie.zone on 18 Jan 21:09 next collapse

Same here.

InFerNo@lemmy.ml on 18 Jan 23:46 next collapse

Microsoft probably added or changed unnecessary shit to the OOXML format that your old version can’t handle.

Do all documents open without any problems?

rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 02:29 next collapse

Think of all the new words made since 2007 you won’t be able to write on such an old version.

Pulptastic@midwest.social on 19 Jan 11:24 collapse

Like skibidi

Peffse@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 03:18 next collapse

I will forever hate 2007’s ribbon with a passion.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 06:55 collapse

It hasn’t.

aesthelete@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 05:21 next collapse

This is like adding ESPN to the live TV package.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 06:53 collapse

So glad I never had to deal with cable, or internet companies.

Just $25/month with Visible and I have unlimited data with tethering.

hunt4peas@lemmy.ml on 19 Jan 06:09 next collapse

Would I see Copilot in the OHook’d Office 365? If not, yay!

kate@lemmy.uhhoh.com on 19 Jan 06:18 next collapse

I use ms office 2007 it runs perfectly in wine and still has the cool version of wordart

Threeme2189@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jan 06:39 next collapse

Huh, do you think I can run Office 2013 in Wine? It’d the best version of office IMHO.

kate@lemmy.uhhoh.com on 19 Jan 06:54 collapse

No idea, that one has the boring word art

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.uhhoh.com/pictrs/image/145a0f00-19b2-4f69-be6a-a3c964371ac4.png">

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.uhhoh.com/pictrs/image/ef660ff6-0104-4923-a270-8d501117f9e5.jpeg">

nossaquesapao@lemmy.eco.br on 20 Jan 04:20 collapse

Love your criteria

TCB13@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 16:21 collapse

Some people can’t because they need updated proofing tools and that version no longer has updates.

kate@lemmy.uhhoh.com on 19 Jan 16:26 collapse

word art > proofing tools

3dmvr@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 06:52 next collapse

apparently super easy to get it forever free

viking@infosec.pub on 20 Jan 00:23 collapse

Not if you’re a company, since in order for it to remain free you need to disable certain telemetry files, and in some office there’s bound to be a person fucking things up, and then you’re on the hook big time.

john89@lemmy.ca on 19 Jan 06:52 next collapse

Subscriptions like these have always been a scam.

dragonlobster@programming.dev on 19 Jan 07:32 next collapse

I’ve been using one drive for my phone photos backup, joplin notes store and keepass. It seemed like the most economical solution cus other vendors don’t really offer 1TB, it’s usually something stupid like jumping from 200GB or 2TB. Don’t know if I should invest in a NAS or something, but I just don’t wanna deal with the hardware and networking if I have to open some ports at home , unless I can use cloudflare as well

digdilem@lemmy.ml on 19 Jan 07:57 next collapse

Look into Syncthing if you have a home server - very easy phone backups that cost nothing.

SoulKaribou@lemmy.ml on 19 Jan 09:57 next collapse

Don’t even need home server, regular PC with a disk will do. Just fireup syncthing on both devices and voila. Can set syncthing to start on pc

digdilem@lemmy.ml on 19 Jan 12:42 collapse

Yep, absolutely.

Although when doing so, that would make your regular PC a server. Doesn’t stop it continuing to be a regular PC as well.

dragonlobster@programming.dev on 19 Jan 10:15 collapse

Ya but wouldn’t I need to open up ports or host a VPN ? Otherwise my phone won’t backup unless I’m at home

Blackmist@feddit.uk on 19 Jan 11:39 next collapse

According to the website it uses UPnP. So it might still work.

digdilem@lemmy.ml on 19 Jan 12:40 collapse

You need a way to connect to your home server from the internet, yes. You can do it easily using cloudflare tunnels or using one of the many vpn systems for your phone.

Milddirection@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jan 17:54 collapse

Immich is a self hosted service that imitates Google photos Tailscale is an easy way to access your network remotely

Gurglegag@lemmynsfw.com on 19 Jan 07:42 next collapse

I’ve had nothing but issues administrating Office 365. A price hike like this is incentivizing me to push other products like Google workspace.

Nice parts are definitely user email tools and some of the audit tools, but I keep finding myself in scenarios where I get error 500s on the server side when I pop open dev tools and it’s like I don’t want to tell my users that they’re SOL but they sort of are if I can’t resolve some error on Microsoft’s o365 servers. Microsoft likes to ask what I did to fix the case if I fix it before they do and I just laugh and not rely to those. They can pay me extra for that or hire me if they want that info.

trk@aussie.zone on 19 Jan 09:13 next collapse

I’m so glad I work in an industry where I can get away with using Libre Office.

Wooki@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 09:24 next collapse

worlds most over glorified over priced office website that runs like a slug

BehindTheBarrier@programming.dev on 19 Jan 10:13 next collapse

I guess I should be happy I applied a work discount, which extended my subscription until Oktober 2026 or something.

ATDA@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 16:09 next collapse

Fun story, it’s called office 365 as when you see the price you’ll turn 365 degrees and walk away.

Ok that doesn’t really work but God I love that stupid joke.

Anyway I haven’t used office personally for ages and never seem to run into real compatibility issues with the meager personal/business overlap in my situation.

[deleted] on 19 Jan 16:26 next collapse

.

Kuma@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 18:11 collapse

It made me chuckle a little imaging that you do a full 365 degree spin Infront of Microsoft and then walk away (in an awkward way), instead of 180 degrees to walk the opposite direction haha

MyRobotShitsBolts@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 18:19 next collapse

Technically speaking with 365* of rotation if you are far enough away you will be able to walk past microsoft, so this is possible.

Welt@lazysoci.al on 19 Jan 22:50 collapse

Because of the Earth’s curvature you mean?

MyRobotShitsBolts@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 14:18 collapse

No not the curvature. For every one degree off you are of a target at 60 miles away you will miss your target by one mile. So if you were 60 miles from your target and you rotated 365, you would miss it by 5 miles. Hence you could spin 365 and miss it, if you were far enough away.

Welt@lazysoci.al on 21 Jan 04:06 collapse

You mean you could accidentally spin 364.9° or 365.1° instead of 365° exactly and you’d be off by a large amount? Might be dumb but still not getting how a perfect pivot right back to 0°/365° would still miss!

MyRobotShitsBolts@lemmy.world on 21 Jan 08:00 collapse

Because a perfect circle is 360* not 365 so you would be 5* off perfect thereby miss by 5 miles at 60 miles distance.

ArtVandelay@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 18:39 next collapse

365 spin, then realizing your mistake and awkwardly walking backwards out of the room

xuv@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 19 Jan 23:42 collapse

At the right distance it’s just enough pivot to give them a spiteful shoulder check on the way out.

archomrade@midwest.social on 19 Jan 16:23 next collapse

Preaching to the choir here but LibreOffice has been excellent since my MSOffice license expired. Unless you’re working in an enterprise setting with MS-specific macros or online collaboration, there’s no reason to be paying for basic document editing software in 2025.

There are also self-hosted and open-sourced collaborative editing suites available that I haven’t tried yet, but there are plenty of options

AppearanceBoring9229@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jan 19:53 next collapse

Even if you need microsoft office for some random file you can use their free web version. Well it’s been a couple years since I last needed it I’m assuming it still exists

archomrade@midwest.social on 19 Jan 22:03 collapse

Fair enough, but if you’re trying to avoid data collection then open-sourced projects are preferable

aceshigh@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 20:16 collapse

Does it save files locally or only cloud? I want to move away from google docs/sheets.

Spezi@feddit.org on 19 Jan 20:34 collapse

I think locally only, LibreOffice is a fork of OpenOffice.

M0oP0o@mander.xyz on 19 Jan 17:43 next collapse

Wait, they think people want Copilot? Like enough to pay money for it?

Avg@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 17:59 next collapse

They are banking on customers being too invested in office to switch.

BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 18:45 next collapse

It’s a safe bet. I wonder if enterprise pricing is that high.

InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 21:10 next collapse

That with a side of suppressing a competitor. Similar to how they include Teams for corporate plans. If it is included in your M$ apps suite, then your company might want to cut back on Slack and just make due.

Avg@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 21:23 collapse

MS teams sucks so fucking much, I don’t understand how such a large company can make such a deficient product.

M0oP0o@mander.xyz on 19 Jan 23:45 collapse

I think that might be their plan for all their products at this point. Just existing though inertia.

stevedice@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jan 03:35 collapse

For reasons I won’t get into, I had a chance to peruse the training program for the sales force of Azure and their strategy actually is telling their potential clients that they already subscribe to Office 365 so they might as well use their cloud too.

M0oP0o@mander.xyz on 20 Jan 03:56 collapse

Yeah, it does not surprise me. The thing that does is how common the approach seems to be in big established tech companies. I mean, it generally never works out (look at IBM, Intel, Sun, and to some degree Apple).

Mwa@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 19:57 next collapse

Copilot Is literally ChatGPT With a diff logo and name.

MojoMcJojo@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 21:12 collapse

I use both for work, copilot is worse.

a2part2@lemmy.zip on 20 Jan 11:54 collapse

It’s “ENTERPRISE”

newDayRocks@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 01:50 next collapse

Copilot for Teams is extremely useful. Recap meetings and being able to search for specific parts. People hate on AI but in this case they are definitely downplaying the capabilities.

But to be fair I’m not the one paying the bill

Ellvix@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 04:44 next collapse

Man, I don’t know about even that… It gets stuff wrong all the time. My boss LOVES his AI bot that joins all meetings (even if he doesn’t) to summarize stuff. Occasionally I look over the summary it produces; it’s about 50% actually correct, 25% ambiguous not wrong but not what I meant, and 25% flat out wrong / opposite of what I meant. I’m sure he relies on the results, ugh. One time I went through the summary and corrected it all, but I don’t have time for that for all meetings.

newDayRocks@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 08:54 collapse

Copilot in my experience is pretty accurate, even if not perfect. Plus it timestamps the meeting so you know where it’s drawing it’s conclusions from.

setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 05:06 collapse

If meetings are happening so long and going in so frequently that nobody can make sense of them without an ai summary, might I suggest there are too many meetings?

I say this as someone who used to work at a place that had meetings about meetings to figure out why so much time was wasted in meetings.

newDayRocks@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 08:51 collapse

I mean we can debate root cause and corporate culture and everything, but at the end of the day these meetings exist and copilot make them better.

frazorth@feddit.uk on 20 Jan 12:31 collapse

They don’t, but by providing a “classic tier” they get to kill anyone’s argument against it by saying “just don’t get it”, until they then discontinue the “classic tier” due to a “lack of demand”, and force Office users to have AI and pay for it too.

nothingcorporate@lemmy.today on 19 Jan 17:51 next collapse

For anyone who doesn’t already know the good FOSS alternatives:

Mwa@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 19:55 next collapse

additionally Onlyoffice (But Onlyoffice isnt fully open source)

NikkiDimes@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 22:14 next collapse
AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 22:37 collapse

OnlyOffice doesn’t like open document formats though.

Mwa@lemm.ee on 20 Jan 03:36 collapse

Oh

Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 20:00 next collapse

FOSS GPT: GPT4ALL

Randelung@lemmy.world on 19 Jan 22:47 collapse
Mwa@lemm.ee on 19 Jan 19:58 next collapse

COPILOT IS NOW A PAID FEATURE??? hell nah, microsoft be banking on their users.

Valmond@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 09:23 collapse

Quickest enshittification.

Mwa@lemm.ee on 20 Jan 10:04 collapse

Fr

ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net on 19 Jan 20:51 next collapse

There are home users of Microsoft 365?

I’m not shaming but I kinda am. Like WTF is wrong with you? You pay for free shit.

Office employees don’t get to choose.

Korhaka@sopuli.xyz on 19 Jan 21:28 next collapse

Actually I have admin access to my work laptop, so while my employer pays for what ever the fuck they pay for I frequently use FOSS instead.

I do it to make a point.

IcyToes@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jan 11:40 collapse

They bundle it in laptop purchases. M$ dominate because of the b2b stitch up.

Bwaz@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 01:45 next collapse

Wow Lotta folks gonna discover that LibreOffice is much better than MS Office. Not to mention, free.

drascus@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jan 03:48 next collapse

So I’ve never used Microsoft office because I could never afford it. I went from notepad to wordpad to OpenOffice to libreoffice. I’ve never had a single issue even as a professional not using word. I actually really enjoy writing as a hobby and I just don’t get this copiolet thing. Why would I want something to do the thing I like doing? Screw that.

setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 05:03 collapse

For professional settings, I understand the theoretical appeal of ai writing. A lot of people don’t like writing emails, but they have to for work. Many of those same people fret about tone or presentation, because silly office politics reasons (real or one-sidedly imagined in their heads.)

The solution, really is workplaces just need to cut down on the useless drivel emails and people need to be ok with short, no frills emails.

Jrockwar@feddit.uk on 20 Jan 07:51 collapse

There are tons more applications in the workplace. For example, one of the people in my team is dyslexic and sometimes needs to write reports that are a few pages long. For him, having the super-autocorrect tidy up his grammar makes a big difference.

Sometimes I have a list of say 200 software changes that would be a pain to summarise, but where it’s intuitively easy for me to know if a summary is right. For something like a changelog I can roll the dice with the hallucination machine until I get a correct summary, then tidy it up. That takes less than a tenth of the time than writing it myself.

Sometimes writing is necessary and there’s no way to cut down the drivel unfortunately. Talking about professional settings of course - having the Large Autocorrect writing a blog post or a poem for you is a total misuse of the tool in my opinion.

Valmond@lemmy.world on 20 Jan 09:22 collapse

As a software dev, I have the feeling you just described texts that nobody will ever read :-) or so I feel.

Props for the dyslexic help tho.

Jrockwar@feddit.uk on 20 Jan 20:41 collapse

Some of these are for insurance, government organisations… They are naturally dry but we can’t get away from them.

Some others that I described like internal changelogs, I agree won’t ever get read. Then if that’s the case I don’t care (much) about the quality - just about doing it as quickly as possible.

ZoDoneRightNow@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 20 Jan 05:22 next collapse

“The cost of running the hallucination machine is too expensive so instead of charging people who want to use it, we have instead decided to charge everyone who uses any of our services even if they don’t want to use the hallucination machine”

Boomkop3@reddthat.com on 20 Jan 15:07 collapse

Big corps will hang on regardless :/