from lemmee_in@lemm.ee to technology@lemmy.world on 24 Aug 2024 16:31
https://lemm.ee/post/40475813
Let’s put it this way; when Microsoft announced its plans to start adding features to Windows 10 once again, despite the operating system’s inevitable demise in October 2025, everyone expected slightly different things to see ported over from Windows 11. Sadly, the latest addition to Windows 10 is one of the most annoying changes coming from Windows 11’s Start menu.
Earlier this year, Microsoft introduced a so-called “Account Manager” for Windows 11 that appears on the screen when you click your profile picture on the Start menu. Instead of just showing you buttons for logging out, locking your device or switching profiles, it displays Microsoft 365 ads. All the actually useful buttons are now hidden behind a three-dot submenu (apparently, my 43-inch display does not have enough space to accommodate them). Now, the “Account Manager” is coming to Windows 10 users.
The change was spotted in the latest Windows 10 preview builds from the Beta and Release Preview Channels. It works in the same way as Windows 11, and it is disabled by default for now because the submenu with sign-out and lock buttons does not work.
threaded - newest
On machines where I have to use windows I run start10 to replace the start menu with something a little more bearable. I imagine there’s a FOSS equivalent but I bought a license years and years ago so I’ve never bothered to search.
Classic Shell/Open Shell.
OpenShell is the best.
StartIsBack for me
I’ve been using Start11, which is better than the Windows 11 built-in one, but whatever makes the Start menu come up blank half the time and take 20 seconds to display anything must be embedded deep in the OS, because Start11 does it too.
I just recently installed the windows 11 LTSC IOT enterprise edition, it contains no ads and is meant for corporate use. I got it off of the massgravel Dev site. The only thing pre-installed is the edge browser. Boots way faster and my games are right there. I have it dual-boot alongside Ubuntu. I recommend it if you have to use windows for some programs.
10 LTSC can be gotten from there as well and is also supported for a good, long while if anyone prefers it over 11 LTSC.
And LTSC has a 10 year life cycle.
This is what I’m planning to go to once my IT department figures out how to implement windows 11 across our systems. We tried a controlled roll. Out and has to roll back to windows 10 because some of the software we use (mandatory) doesn’t work quite right on 11 (menu problems and weird crashes from what I saw -but it’s legacy software from the windows XP times so that’s to be expected, even in compatibility mode). They’re still going to try because the alternative is to pay for the extended support and the company doesn’t want to. I guess we’ll see what happens.
Microsoft believes if they worsen the enshitification of Windows 10, more people will just upgrade to 11 quicker.
I decided to move to Linux and my other family went with Macbooks.
Sadly, I’m at a Microsoft office and do not have this option for my work machine.
It does look like I’ll be forced into Linux on my personal machine before too long, though.
Lucky for me I only use my windows work laptop to remote into Linux.
Similarly, I use my windows work laptop for accessing remote (usually Linux) systems, and a few specific apps that are windows only.
My desktops are Linux (and of course my servers here as well), and I have a windows VM for those tools that are windows only that I need. Which I’ve modified that VM heavily to not have the normal junk from windows.
A recent decision for “security” will require using AAD joined machines only to access email/teams/etc. I was going to make an exception for my machines, then decided against it. My laptop now just sits off to the side, with only teams and outlook running, and its basically all I’ll use it for.
Well, I actually use Linux to remote into my work computer, to remote into Linux. I hate using a laptop at my desk, so I just stuck it on the shelf near the router.
That sucks. I use Ubuntu and SSH into redhat machines.
It’s like riding a chariot made of dog shit into a wonderful land of freedom
Not much to be done with a work machine, but for personal use, I believe the more people moving away from Windows the better.
This. I mainly keep Windows around on my old laptop for Office development and I don’t need another subscription so won’t pay for 360. I’ll most likely just stop messing with Office and give Windows the boot altogether. Some of my computers already run Linux (mainly Debian). Office and SubtitleEdit have kept my laptop on Windows 10, but fuck getting ads from the OS.
I can’t stress strongly enough how badly I am opposed to ads.
Anybody remember Litestep (litestep.net)? It was an open source shell alternative to the default Windows shell.
There’s actually something pretty similar for Windows 10 and 11. It even offers tiling. Not as great as a Linux desktop environment, but much better than the garbage Micro$oft ships by default. github.com/eythaann/Seelen-UI
Add PowerToys Run or Flow Launcher and you have a pretty decent, usable environment
Of course use the new Windows Terminal (preferably with WSL and a good Linux shell, but newer PowerShell with oh-my-posh and a few other modifications is also pretty decent if you need to use the CLI in a Windows environment for some reason)
Windows Terminal + PowerShell setup: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-aK2_WwrmM
"lol"
-- classic shell
.
ShutUp10 for the win.
(Linux for the real win).
Shutup10 for sure.
Linux, nah. It still can’t do what we need it to do, so it’s not the proper tool for the job.
Chicken and egg. Linux is roughly 4% of the OS space. If more people would get on board, it would become a better tool. I use both. Windows because I have to. Linux because I want to.
Linux missed the mark years ago. It’s not a lack of people using it, it’s a lack of usability for people. You’re blaming users because Linux doesn’t work for them.
My standard response to “just go Linux” :
I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.
As some background - I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol).
I had my first UNIX class in about 1990.
I run a Mint laptop (for the hell of it, and I do mean hell) . Update: stopped running Mint on that laptop, it’ll never be viable for the intended use-case. Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot.
Windows would never do this, no, Windows can never do this. It is incapable of running a battery to zero, it’ll shutoff before then to protect the battery. To really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows simply will not let a battery get to zero.
There’s no way even possible via the Mint GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions. None, nada, zip, not at all. Command line only, in the twenty-first century, something Windows has had since I don’t recall, 95 I think (I was carrying a laptop then, and I believe it had hibernate, sorry, it’s been what, almost thirty years now).
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. While I don’t disagree with the sentiment, no, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.
Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? Again, in the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. In the 21st century?
Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a third-party download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of Windows since Win2k (at the least) and would probably work on Win95.
Someone else said it better than me:
You must be fun at parties
I was going to write a reply to that guy about how linux doesn’t work for the common man, but then you come in and write shakespear level articulation that blows away my tiny brain cell reply.
It’s just such a complete analysis of the situation. The only thing missing is how linux requires you to use the terminal. Yes, REQUIRES. People can say it doesn’t all they want, but go on any self help guide, and any problem you have, is “step 1, open terminal”.
What would you say to someone who doesn’t know what terminal is?
“Ok, open terminal?”
“Whats that?”
“Its like a command line, but better”
“Whats a command line?”
And this is why 96% of people AREN’T using linux. Most windows users don’t understand how windows works. Most drivers don’t understand how cars work. And linux you HAVE TO be a mechanic to use linux. Because unlike windows and mac, linux isn’t designed to be used by idiots. And most of the world are idiots. Hell, I’m an idiot.
And until linux can fix itself FOR the user, no user will even take a look. Even if there were a single distro that did all that, you’d have to convince people “this linux isn’t like the other linux”. It’s the main reason that even though Android is linux, it stays far far away from that branding. It doesn’t want the linux stink.
And from what I’ve seen, every developer WANTS linux to be hard to use. Like a right of passage. “I had to endure these learning curves, and so shall you!”
That’s a marketing problem, not a functionality problem. The terminal isn’t really hard to use.
People used BASIC easily back in the 80’s. My mom did it back then, and she isn’t tech savvy.
I’ve been trying to learn it for 15 years. The only thing I’ve learned is that sudo stands for super user. Outside of that, I’ve learned nothing about how to use terminal other than copy/pasting other peoples commands.
For most cases, you need to use the package manager (apt is the standard for Debian-based) . You also need ‘grep’ to select a specific phrase sometimes.
But that problem normally occur when you are using proprietary software. You’ll need to download packages (wget), add repository packages and run shell scripts for most proprietary software, and I think most people would use copy-paste in those scenarios.
…do what now?
If you’ve been unable to learn some basic command line in 15 years perhaps computing is not your forte.
Well, not linux. I do just fine on windows 7.
BTW sudo stands for substitute user.
More info
I really don’t understand the objection to using a terminal to get things done. It’s just a window that you can type text commands into. You don’t even have to come up with the commands on your own, you find the ones that solve the problem on the internet, copy and paste, and boom problem fixed. How is this different from looking up a solution to a Windows problem that walks you with a series of pictures through using Regedit or Group Policy Editor, only instead of pasting text into a terminal, you have to click through dozens of menus, trees, and tabs to find the setting you need to change? You’re still looking up solutions online in either case, but the Windows solutions require navigating windows with dozens of mouse clicks versus copying and pasting some text in Linux.
Me: My fan doesn’t work.
Internet: To install fan copy this command into terminal.
Me: does that.
Computer: error.
Internet: ???
Me: ???
And 5 years later I still can’t turn on the fan.
Is that supposed to be a real example? It’s just that fans are controlled by the BIOS, not the OS, so fixing a fan problem would usually involve either updating your firmware, which I have never seen done via a terminal command, or changing a BIOS setting, which could involve rebooting and holding a key like F2 to enter the BIOS settings menu (not Linux, usually a quasi-graphical mouse-driven UI) to change something there.
Well I’m trying to post the 2 line code to you, but Lemmy won’t even let me paste it here.
Thats what I’m told to do. My raspberry pi says it took…but my fan isn’t on.
Take the spaces out.
Wait, this is for a Raspberry Pi? I thought we were talking about Linux as a desktop OS. You wouldn’t run Windows on a Raspberry Pi, so while I’m sorry you’re having trouble with your Pi’s fans, I don’t see how that’s relevant to the merits of Linux as a desktop OS.
vs
I have heard this argument for over 20 years… “You have to use the terminal in Linux, so user hostile”.
Well, try to do ANY windows sysadmin tasks without Powershell… See how far that gets you. Need to manage Exchange? Powershell. Need to change some network settings? Powershell… It is even getting more and more unavoidable. Now Powershell doesn’t even have a good terminal environment, sane parameters or good usability. And a general lack of documentation for all the obscure incantations.
In the meantime KDE on Linux is wonderful, fully integrated with the system, easy software maintenance (on Kubuntu for example) and with a sane settings menu… You hardly need a terminal at all. Try to find that in Windows.
So sorry, this argument is either invalid, out of date or Microsoft is even worse.
I don’t know what powershell is. I just use control panel. Even though I have Windows 7, I have it laid out like Windows XP, because thats what I know.
So if I wanted to do something in network, I go to network settings.
Ha, then stay on Windows 7/10 or you’ll lose your control panel soon…
Well if you like control panel, I’ve got good news for you. Upgrade to Windows 8/10/11 and you’ll get two of them. :)
8 was a piece of trash when it was released. 11 was a piece of trash when it released. And now 11 is bleeding over into 10.
Windows 7 forever!!!
You do not need to use PS to manage network settings. And no normal user has any clue that exchange even exists much less needing to modify it. And saying that PS doesn’t have good documentation is laughable comparing it to bash. Listen, I hate windows just as much as you all do, but it is most definitely more user friendly than any Linux distribution out there. No windows user ever needs to even touch PS much less program network settings with it. Literally the fact that you need to even open the app at all is a massive fucking downside to Linux. Users don’t want to type out “weird incantations”. They want to click a button, select from a dropdown, or in the case of many many many drivers, do absolutely nothing at all.
The fact that you had to call out a specific nonstandard desktop environment to support your case for Linux being easy to use is exactly the point that several other people in this thread are trying to make.
I’m sorry, you’re arguing in bad faith or have a huge case of Stockholm Syndrome.
But, just look at their Troubleshooting documentation where they tell you to drop to the terminal.
My point is that Microsoft has stopped making new buttons and dropdowns and refer you to new Powershell incantations for most new settings. Just look at how many options the new “Settings” app offers compared to the deprecated Control Panel.
You switched from talking about network settings to now talking about troubleshooting!!! Can’t even have a consistent narrative! I mean at least try dude.
I’ve been using Windows personally and professionally since 3.1, and Windows 11 was the last straw that finally got me to jump over to Linux for my home PC. I hate what Windows has become but I’ve got a lot of history with it. My experience with Linux (Mint FWIW) has been as smooth as it ever was in Windows, neither of which was perfect. I’m a definite convert from Windows and would encourage most people to consider taking the leap themselves.
I gotta disagree with you about modern Powershell and terminals in Windows, though. Good terminal? Windows Terminal has been around for years now. It’s fast and functional. Whether Powershell’s parameters are “sane” is probably a matter of taste, but I’m definitely willing to stick up for its usability. Yes, the parameter names are much more verbose, but they all get tab completion out of the box, and you don’t have to type the full names at all, just enough of the start of the name to be unambiguous. For personal automation scripts, I think Powershell is way ahead of Bash. Parameters get bound automatically without needing to write
for/caseloops withgetopts. You can write comments at the top of the file that automatically get integrated into Powershell’s help system. Sending objects through the standard pipeline means you spend a lot less time and code just parsing text.It sounds like many of your problems could be fixed by installing kde plasma6 instead.
I think this supports his argument. Having to research desktop environments to decide which is optimized for the potential problems a new user may face, then finding a distro that packages that DE is quite frankly too much for the average user.
I’d argue between 3% and 5% of PC users are willing to research and experiment to find the flavor of Linux that truly works for them.
Linux has come a long way, I still remember using Gentoo as a daily driver and seeing Linux cross 1% of desktop share, but the average desktop user doesn’t know the difference between a kernel and a colonel, and they don’t want to.
Nah, completely wrong take.
Linux can be adapted to fit any use case you have, and that’s an important part of its flexibility. What you really are getting at is that mass producing a machine with an OS built into it is convenient for consumers. See Android phones or Steam decks for evidence of this convenience being important to the sale of Linux based devices.
In the not too distant future, windows will go out of fashion for the home desktop PC. Someone will sell a cheap and cool arm based PC with a decent distribution. It will be a slow win, nothing like what we saw from macOS.
Linux has 4% of the pc market. This is an all time high. The fact that you think linux is a threat in any meaningful way tells me that you’re either too stubborn or too stupid to see why linux as it stands today will never even reach 10% of the market ever, let alone become the dominant platform.
Windows could become a yearly subscription at $500 per year, and linux would struggle to reach 6%.
he was wrong but you are way overcompensating. if windows suddenly became exorbetantly expensive, most people would just stop using computers altogether (its already easy for many people live with just a phone no PC). The remaining computer users (not counting businesses) would be enthusiasts, who are much more likely to enjoy the tinkering of Linux, or put up with it to avoid exorbetant costs. so without even gaining anymore users, Linux’s desktop market share would shoot up.
to be clear I don’t think Linux Desktop taking over is imminant or “near future.” thats nuts, it will probably always be a niche for enthusiasts and thier families/friends. but its also not going to stay eternally at 2-4%, the user experience is constantly improving and encompassing more hardware.
I know several people who would switch over to Linux if Windows cost that much and it would be: everyone I know.
It’s a moot point, because the average user doesn’t install any OS on their system. They get people like us to install it for them.
They don’t generally solve their own Windows problems either. OEM is the real bulwark of of Windows dominance. Usability and familiarity is one aspect, but I’ve set a good few people up with Linux at this stage and very few of them know what a kernel is, or what Plasma/Gnome are, because they don’t need to (same way they didn’t know or care what NT was either).
Whoosh. This happens literally every time anyone comments about how difficult Linux is, someone just recommends some other distro or obscure fix (this time a new desktop). You’re literally missing the actual problem here because you’re always trying to solve strange problems on Linux. The fact that you know a solution to this and the solution isn’t continue using your current system but instead install a new graphical interface is the exact problem that the person you’re responding to is complaining about.
You’re just assuming that installing KDE was a solution to some obscure problem he had instead of it being his existing system.
That’s how it’s been for me at any rate. I read a lot of the original post while thinking ‘I’ve never had that problem.’ After the first day of setting up the installation, I don’t really do any meaningful tweaking of the OS. Personally, I switched over from Windows because I was tired of fighting it to make it behave how I wanted and solving obscure problems with meaningless error messages.
I’m not assuming anything. He’s suggesting it as a solution. If your suggestion of a solution is to switch distros then Linux is not ready to be a desktop env. And I’ve seen multiple people recommend KDE as a “solution” to people’s problems so forgive me if I took them suggesting it as a solution as them suggesting it as a solution.
I’m responding to the more general sentiment you and BearOfaTime expressed, which is that one is ‘always trying to solve strange problems on Linux.’ KDE is being offered as a solution in this instance, but it’s also just a default in its own right. Contrary to how you’re characterising it, it’s not a distro, it’s not difficult to install, and it absolutely is not obscure.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. For what it’s worth, I haven’t run into laptop problems like those you described.
You’ve reminded me that people who declare “linux isn’t ready” often make the same mistakes:
Proficiency with any tool takes practice. More so when you don’t have an abundance of good mentors and pre-packaged solutions for what you want to do with it. That doesn’t make the tool bad. It doesn’t mean it lacks usability. It mostly just means that you haven’t learned how to use it yet.
Edit: Split the rest into a separate comment, since it wasn’t really addressing anyone specific.
Thats ALL PCs.
Alright, fair enough. But then within the linux operating system, it should make those islands official sources for quality information. Make them easier to find.
Nope. (example) (example) (example)
(And if you don’t like ready-made PCs, you can always build your own.)
Heh. It would be nice to have such things handed to us on a platter, wouldn’t it?
In reality, there is no central organization in a position to speak for the whole linux ecosystem, and a great deal of the work and knowledge comes from unpaid volunteers acting on their own. Standing out from the noise on the internet is harder than you might think.
However, there are companies selling direct support, and communities focused on specific topics, and wikis run by some of the most popular linux distributions, and classes, and books, and various other good information sources.
And, even if you have no money to spend, you will eventually come across some of the community-maintained gems just by regularly dedicating time to learning. Finding good info gets easier with practice.
I’ve run Linux on custom built gaming computers. You still get all the same problems that dude is talking about. And no, forums and wikis are not a replacement for the os just working. A good analogy for Linux that a friend came up with. “Linux is a tank, it can blast through anything, you can do tons with it. But it doesn’t come with a cup holder. You decide to install one. But when you do so the shift lever doesn’t work anymore. So you move the shift knob over, now the AC doesn’t work. You fix that and now the tank won’t turn right, unless the AC is off.” You get the point.
Actually, I don’t.
Nobody suggested that.
I get what you’re trying to express, but I also have more than a little experience to the contrary. I’m almost curious what you and your friend did that led to things breaking as you described, but it’s not important here. Obviously, your mileage may vary, as with any operating system.
In any case, some people would rather learn new things than keep suffering Microsoft’s ads, spyware, and bloat. You don’t have to be one of them.
You literally said that.
I use Linux all the time. I have an unraid server in my basement with about 50 docker containers. I run Debian to run a lemmy instance. I use windows for gaming, and I use Mac for software dev. Linux works fantastic for servers. As a desktop os it’s shit.
As for “what we did that led to Linux breaking”, that’s just a hilarious question. Go to your Linux wikis and forums and read there. It will literally just break plugging in the wrong device. This isn’t a “my friend and I”. This is every software dev I’ve ever talked to that has used Linux, including ones that currently use it.
Your last comment there is the exact point I’m trying to make. If you have to learn anything in order to literally make the OS function (e.g. even set up a monitor) then Linux will never go mainstream. That’s just a fact.
I wrote several paragraphs in a conversation spanning multiple comments, and you picked out a tiny fragment of one sentence, stripped it of context, and somehow reinterpreted it into a suggestion that forums and wikis are a replacement for an OS “just working”. That’s your straw man, not mine.
Bye bye.
I switched over to Linux because I was tired of fighting Windows to make it behave the way I wanted while struggling to solve obscure issues because of meaningless error messages. I use my Linux machine for gaming/work and everything in between. The only reason I boot into Windows these days is for VSTs and Photoshop.
And I’m not suggesting that Linux just works and never has any issues, but it’s ludicrous to suggest that Linux doesn’t work in a way that Windows just does. If Windows just worked I wouldn’t have to fix stupid issues for my family and friends all the fucking time.
If you want to run Spotify, Linux really isn’t your thing. Now, aside from Autodesk (I’m not an engineer, but I think FreeCAD doesn’t come close), you can easily use Linux to work. It is much better for programming also. Windows puts so many proprietary barriers into programming that you actually need a minor version of GNU (MinGW) to make C++ work. Want to program something on C#? You should have this proprietary Visual Studio. Wants something for Android? You will need proprietary Android Studio.
The environment is just different. Every thing is built around people expecting to make money out of proprietary software. That’s Windows. It’s built by proprietary for proprietary. It encourages people to put absurd licenses into the most minor of works. “Wants to automatically lowercase a text? Hey, you should be profiting out of that!”. “Wants to automatically copy and paste a text to many boxes? Oh my, you should be profitting out of that, clearly!”.
It’s another environment. Don’t compare Windows as if it were more convenient because for programmers, and for ordinary people in many cases, it certainly isn’t.
That said, I agree that Office 365 is a flagship, but maybe that flagship is sinking.
Spitting facts. I generally use Linux for any server need, but I’m convinced that people using Linux as a desktop have absolutely nothing to do all day and can spend all their time researching, tweaking, and installing a mishmash of software to make it usable for them.
The best desktop experience I’ve had with Linux is Fedora Kinoite and ironically it cuts against the grain by locking down the base system and making it immutable. Same thing with Bazzite on my TV PC. I can just sit down and achieve my task I needed a computer for without having to waste time screwing around with anything extra.
I use Linux as a desktop/laptop OS specifically because I can’t stand fighting Windows getting in its own way all the time. I want an OS to support my work/art/gaming and not waste my time with ads, a useless start menu, 2 fractured settings subsystems, surprise updates that require long reboots and reset user settings or obscure useful functionality, meaningless error messages, etc.
While generally better than Linux as a desktop, Windows does shit the bed a lot. MacOS is the best desktop OS IMO. Sane defaults, nothing visual I really feel like changing, built in apps are all solid and they, and the entire system, all play nicely with one another. It also somewhat does immutability.
It feels like Linux UI and UX developers (generally speaking) are more interested in doing things different for the sake of different rather than using common sense. Personally, I just find it annoying. It’s like that one episode of The Office where they made that triangle-shaped tablet. Linux desktops are that triangle tablet and will unironically preach about how it’s actually the most efficient way to use a tablet, completely ignoring that 97% of computer users have always used a square and will be using a square for decades to come.
I still don’t really know what you’re talking about and you haven’t really given any examples. Why talk about fictional triangle tablets when you could ideally just give a concrete example that makes your point?
The fact is that I use Linux as a daily driver and it doesn’t eat up a lot of my time. It eats up far less time than Windows did. That’s why I’m using it. Several of my less tech-literate friends and family use it too.
I agree with you on many of the MacOS points. I wish others would take lessons from their level of integration, but the flipside is that their ecosystem sometimes walls other things out (the need for expensive proprietary hardware, lack of games, etc). If it works for you, it works for you, but it doesn’t work for a lot of people.
Oh, ok. Fair enough. How about the Unity and/or Gnome3 dock as an example? Windows historically: taskbar at the bottom, app menu first icon. MacOS historically: dock at the bottom, app launcher second icon. Unity: Putting our dock where everyone else is? Nonsense. It’s on the left now which isn’t any easier to use. 🤡 Gnome3: App launcher as the first icon? Who’s going to want to ever find and launch an app? Stick that useless icon at the very end. 🤡
It’s just being different for the sake of being different, not because it makes more sense or is any more intuitive. Frankly it’s just hipster app development.
That’s it? It’s not any easier to use, but is it any harder to use? The app launcher is to the right instead of the left? Or the bottom instead of the top?
Sorry for the follow up question but what makes that such a difficult obstacle to surmount for new users? It’s not like it’s hidden away behind other menus, it’s literally just on a different part of the screen.
That seems like such a minor difference that I’m genuinely baffled you brought it up. Are you similarly bewildered by the minimise/maximise/close buttons being on the other side of a window in MacOS? Or how MacOS docks the program toolbar at the top of the screen instead of in the program window?
Why not just use a KDE distro? Then MacOS would be the outlier for weird design decisions against Windows and Linux.
You asked for an example. I’m not going to spend a lot of time thinking of the best example when any example will do. For some, sure it’s more difficult. Like that fake triangle tablet. Is that something you could get used to or learn to live with? Yeah, but why should you spend time learning how to “fix” it when everybody else does it a different and standard way? For a desktop it’s also one of the most important UI elements on screen FYI. The first introduction to a new user shouldn’t be to confuse them for no reason.
But I’ll circle back to it’s just being different for the sake of being different, not because it’s better or easier. Unless you have some point on how it’s somehow better and more intuitive, again, it’s just hipster app development.
Re: KDE, I do use it on the Linux desktop I rarely touch. It’s also used on my Bazzite box for if I ever need desktop mode. The KDE defaults aren’t perfect but they’re the most sane of all the environments I’ve tried, and believe me over the last 22 years I think I’ve probably tried them all at some point. Calling any example I bring up trivial would be fine, but aren’t your gripes with Windows also trivial and something you couldn’t just work around?
It just really isn’t an example that ‘will do’, though. I’m not saying it’s a trivial problem; I’m saying it’s not a problem by any stretch of the imagination. If the app launcher being on a different fixed part of the screen is a problem to you, then you should just stay away from computing in general. I know, however, that it’s not a problem, which is why I’m calling out your example.
Okay and on the note of different for the sake of being different: back to the MacOS examples I provided: why do MacOS dock the program toolbar at the top of the screen and only show it for one focused program at a time? Is this not in contrast to how everyone else does it? It doesn’t offer any meaningful improvement and is slightly less functional (when multiple windows are open simultaneously). Why is this the best desktop OS and not just ‘hipster design’?
Random mandatory updates which steal my computer’s focus, force reboots and often reset user settings aren’t trivial to me. They waste time and they happen with predictable regularity. Any given workaround might be randomly undone at the next update. Using a tonne of RAM and processing power in system idle is also not trivial. Encrypting my hdd and locking me out over minor occurrences as designed implementation is not trivial. Whatever is coming in copilot is not trivial.
These are just examples off the top of my head. KDE could programme their app launcher to dodge my cursor every time I tried to click on it, and I’d still take it over Windows for ease of use.
To me, every Windows gripe you just listed is trivial to work around. What I’m saying, perhaps poorly, is why should I have to work around them. Why aren’t the defaults sane and just work? KDE has the most sane defaults to me for a Linux DE that follow written and unwritten industry standards, but generally speaking it’s the exception and not the rule and I’d still prefer using something else. Using Linux as a desktop is irritating. Just a lot of “why is it like that? That’s dumb.” It’s not that it’s just sooooo impossible to use a desktop with a launcher in another position. It’s that I think it’s a stupid decision and have to spend time researching if and how that mistake can be fixed when I shouldn’t have to. It’s ok to stand on the shoulders of giants and do what everybody has been doing and expecting for the last 40+ years.
Why does macOS stick the toolbar along the top? Apple thinks it’s better UX design to have a unified area for that UI element regardless of window position. Makes sense. Passes the sniff test. Gnome sticking the bar on the left edge enhances the user experience and makes the environment easier to use? No, doesn’t pass the sniff test. But I agree, macOS does toolbars different. I would prefer if Windows adopted that design too. But if something deviates from a standard and you have no reasoning to how it improves anything or enhances the UX, hipster design. Different for the sake of being different.
And that’s just bizarre. That Windows needs 4GB of RAM and can’t have a low idle processor is trivial to you, but the app launcher icon being in a slightly different place in a Linux DE provokes your bewilderment is actually just lunacy.
Again in trying to make your point, you’re giving your reaction to examples you don’t provide. I get that you find Linux irritating, but you’re not really attempting to qualify why that is. When I provided examples of how Windows wastes my time, you just dismissed them as trivial. So all I can conclude is that the problems you’re coming up with Linux’s design are so trivial that you can’t even think of them.
I actually move the taskbar to the side of the screen in any OS that will let me. Why? Because screens are wide and documents are vertical. Makes sense to me. Just because you can’t fathom a design reason for it, doesn’t mean there isn’t one. Does it being on the left really necessitate research or a learning process on your part? No, so why are you pretending it does?
A unified position for every program toolbar doesn’t objectively increase functionality, but it has the downside of forcing the user to focus the window before they can access the toolbar. In my opinion it’s a slight net decrease in UX. It seems like it’s mostly done to be different.
Yes, it’s trivial because it doesn’t impact workflow or productivity. I don’t run out of RAM but if I did it would just page old data out to disk. It could be improved but it’s not something that needs fixing so I don’t care (and FYI if you have less physical memory Windows will just use less. I remember testing Windows 10 with 2G of RAM on a Core2Duo years ago because I was curious.) Wasting literally any amount of my productivity time because something doesn’t follow industry standards is irritating. And for clarity I’m not simply talking about the panel/bar.
Computers are tools. When I use a computer it’s because I want to do something specific, not do something and also deal with the operating system at the same time. I want it to work as a tool should. Intuitively. Like, I love Bazzite which is technically a desktop Linux distribution if you’re loose with the definition of desktop. When I sit down on the couch and want to play a video game for an hour, Bazzite just works. Windows would work just as well there but I won’t fault Bazzite for that. The tool does the job and does it intuitively. Different is fine as long as it’s intuitive and/or improves the user experience. When I look at Gnome for example I just can’t see it improving anything. It’s doing its own thing and its own thing isn’t very good.
Frankly, yes. You’re half-right. To list out every problem I have with every Linux desktop I’ve used over the last 20 years I would have to sit down and use them all again and re-frustrate myself all over again. I don’t spend my free time reminiscing of bad software design. When I have shitty experiences with something I don’t continue with it. I remember some problems with Ubuntu in the Unity days was the left panel and something to do with the screen being mostly taken up by something that I can’t remember when you clicked the launcher, but I remember it was translucent. I also remember hardware support sucked on the older kernels Ubuntu used but I think I’m dating myself there. As some other commenter pointed out, the Samba credential caching is a PITA. Gnome 3 needs additional tweaks or terminal commands to change anything to be more like what you’d expect to find on 9 out of 10 computers around the world. Some distros or DE’s put the window controls on the wrong side like macOS (yes, I hate that macOS puts window controls on the unintuitive side). This may have changed at some point, I don’t know, but historically installing some applications will invariably use some other UI kit and look completely out of place. I feel like I shouldn’t have brought that up and opened that can of worms either, but Linux desktops are generally ugly. KDE is fine. Gnome is so-so. Budgie has potential. If you count Steam’s TV mode, it’s both intuitive and aesthetically pleasing. Everything else I’ve used is just ugly regardless of its ease of use.
Anyway, I’m finished. Think what you want about Linux desktops. I’ll think what I want. Both of us have better things to do than this.
Thoroughly enjoyed this post thanks. I have long wished for a FOSS OS that can truly become popular by considering these users and carving a mainstream path for them. Even - for people who don’t even know what terminal/shell is and don’t care.
.
You post this same thing all the fucking time. “Someone said it better than me,” this guy decides to install random shit and run whatever command he can find and it, shockingly, doesn’t fix the problem?
ShutUp10 is the equivalent of being in an abusive relationship and telling yourself “it’ll be okay if I just don’t upset them and stay out of their way”. You know it’ll happen again. You’re just in denial and kicking the ball down the road a bit until they do it again. Use it to buy yourself time to make a plan to get out of the relationship. The sooner you leave, the better off you’ll be.
If you’re a person who prefers to type commands than click through menus then you should try the “run” program in the “powertoys” suite from Microsoft.
It a launcher program that’s superior to Start in every way. You can type in plain English system commands like “shutdown”; a search that actually works; you can pass queries into your browser’s search engine; and of course launch programs by typing in their names. You can even enter entire registry addresses to open regedit at the desired location.
This is a complete replacement for the Start Menu.
This is what I came here to suggest. Everybody should be using power toys and keyboard entry as much as possible on windows.
I just made a similar comment above but you’re in an abusive relationship. MS isn’t going to come to their senses and change paths. You can delay things by using powertoys, but they’ll be back to abuse you again. Use this time to plan an exit strategy and leave.
It’s pretty insulting to anyone who’s ACTUALLY been in an abusive relationship to claim that looking at an ad is the same thing as being beaten at night.
I’m sorry for your situation. That sucks, and I empathize. I hope you have found physical and mental healing.
That being said, there are different levels of abusive relationships. I can see where that poster could compare Microsoft to a gaslighting relationship where a partner says they are doing something for you, but it’s always about themselves.
These ads are what finally got me to pull the trigger and move to Linux. Arch is great, zero issues to report.
Definitely wouldn’t recommend jumping straight to Arch as a first distro unless you want a steep learning curve and have the time to learn.
Installing OpenSUSE Tumbleweed on my wife’s laptop as we speak. Stupid thing forcefully installed 11.
And people question my decision to disable automatic updates…
I’ll take you one further. I’m on Windows 7. Hasn’t been updated since like 2013.
Unrelated question: What’s your IP address?
Jk
192.168.1.1
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/12ea7e81-a568-4934-ad1a-9c8b93c6c6bd.jpeg">
Sam Reich? Did you get a haircut?
Seriously, I’m just munching popcorn with all these MS headlines lately, contentedly using my machine that does everything I want and 0 things more, all without actually having to fight with it for that outcome.
🐧
🐃+🐧 🤓
uses busybox so I can um actually your um actually
lol… apparently 4chan has entered the chat.
I saw the memes before I actually watched the talks. They explained how my beloved vidya games were becoming more and more hostile to users (Stallman’s talks were never specifically about games, just software in general).
Some advice for anyone who is seriously considering a move away from Windows:
For reference, there’s a lot of diversity among people running Linux, from software developers to secretaries, from children to octogenarians. I imagine it’s easier for kids, since they don’t have as much to un-learn, but the Grandparents in my family switched to it from Windows and didn’t want to go back. If they can do it, I think it’s fair to say that many others can, too.
I think it’s now overstated how “different” Linux is. I switched to Mint about a year ago and there is basically zero learning curve right out the box.
This is the most sane run down I’ve seen on Lemmy in regards to Linux. Thank you for this.
Is there a way to pre-emptively block this? Something in hosts.txt? Registry?
The very first day I see those ads in my Win10 will be the day I uninstall Win and go Linux.
Why wait?
I haven’t even used the start menu in so long because Windows 10 always had a shitty one and I really just use my PC for games which I launch from Steam or my desktop (if non steam). If I ever need to open the settings or whatever, I use Windows Key+R and just type out what I want to run.
<img alt="" src="https://feddit.org/pictrs/image/a7027ee1-eb84-4cda-9e36-a55db81bc654.jpeg">
I use a different start menu on my office laptop, because IT staff populated it with the productivity apps and locked it for editing, so all the apps I use are hard to find. (I mostly use the process bar anyways)
So even if they put ads on Win10 Pro I won’t see them.
What’s keeping me running Microsoft? A collection of Steam games that I love. Do they work on Linux now?
I’m told many many do thanks in part to the steam deck. I bet if you yelled out your games a Linux user would bite, they’re stocked to the gills here on Lemmy
🤓 www.protondb.com
Hey, this is great, thanks!
You can even connect it with your Steam account, and see all the games from your library, as well as statistics (percentage of the games in your library that work, etc.)
.
93% of the top 1000 Steam games have a Linux rating of Silver (playable with minor issues) or better.
You can check the rating of your own collection here: www.protondb.com/dashboard
My entire Steam library works on Linux Mint.
Also, almost every older game, like Deus Ex or Giants: Citizen Kabuto, I can run separately under Wine. The only game that doesn’t quite work is NOLF 1. No music. (I can’t seem to get DirectMusic working properly in Wine yet).
You can also install a non-Steam game in Steam so that it uses Proton.
Converted recently and happy to find that all but one (relatively niche, command: modern operations) game I played work on linux out of the box. Decided that I’d rather claw back control over my computer and switch rather than have a single game working. Haven’t looked back since. Check your library in protondb, it may surprise you.
What was that? I couldn’t hear you over the battle in Baldur’s Gate 3. :)
some games with anticheat will not work, if the developer didn’t check the “allow Linux” button in the anticheat provider
all other games ive found so far work great
.
Have you not heard of the Steam Deck? Steam’s own hardware is running Linux for gaming… SteamOS is Linux…
They’re doing a good job getting people to move to Linux or MacOS
Sure if added to Pro version will have a Group Policy to disable them. Really happy I went Pro for Windows 10.
Really happy I went
Pro for Windows 10with LinuxWhich flavor?
(quick disclaimer: I've been using Linux for over 20 years)
I use Gentoo because I’m a power user and like to customize my system. I don’t mind having to compile software from source, and I actually appreciate the benefits I get from it. I use a custom kernel, which I probably recompile once a week because I make changes all the time. I also appreciate the fact that Gentoo doesn’t force me to use any particular piece of software, e.g. systemd or sudo. I replaced both, I use OpenRC as my init and doas instead of sudo.
For new users I would recommend something simple like Linux Mint, Pop!_OS or Zorin OS. EndeavourOS is great for intermediate users, and it offers a great introduction into the world of Arch Linux. Fedora and Fedora Atomic, as well as derivatives like Universal Blue are really interesting as well.
No Arch? I game on linux as much as possible and went with same that Valve did for SteamOS. Work I use Windows 10 Pro and laptop FreeBSD.
SteamOS has the big advantage that it’s immutable. I have used Arch many times and generally like it, but I recently had a few Arch installations break repeatedly for no reason, and I don’t want to deal with that. So I went back to Gentoo, which has always been extremely stable for me. But I like Arch, and one of the distros I recommend is EndeavourOS, which is Arch-based. But it’s better for users with some intermediate Linux knowledge, because it’s pretty easy to fuck up on Arch.
FreeBSD is nice! I have an old laptop that I keep around so I can play with FreeBSD. I also used to run OpenBSD on the desktop for a few years, but I had another machine running Linux because I couldn’t do everything on BSD. But it was a really nice experience, and I still use OpenBSD on servers.
Hold on let me check my start menu.
Oh this is gnome lolololol.
If they can’t bring the people to Win 11, they bring Win 11 to the people instead?
Just install Linux, it’s not that hard. Or at least get a Mac or a Chromebook…
I have been installing Linux on a number of my work PCs that I manage. Most of them are pretty straightforward, office products, printing, web, basic video player. But my personal PCs have so many different programs installed for different niche uses that it’s been a massive roadblock to me switching over. I know it’s coming because I’m not moving to Windows 11 even though my PC is compatible in theory. But man is it going to take me a lot of time to figure out all of the different screen capture, video editing, audio extraction and editing, disc imaging, photo editing etc. I know I can figure it out, but it’s about the time. I have a huge steam library too,but most of that should work.
Any of you playing Fallout London on Linux?
OBS (same as is popular on Windows).
I basically never do that sort of thing, but if I needed to I’d start out with Kdenlive and Audacity, respectively.
See also:
itsfoss.com/best-video-editing-software-linux/
itsfoss.com/best-audio-editors-linux/
For a task that basic, most of the time I just use
dd.GIMP and/or Krita.
I wouldn’t suggest GIMP to anybody: Photopea. It is very similar to Photoshop and is a webapp.
Was in the same place, got FOSS soft for almost everything so now I run Mint on my main PC and on my laptop too, with a little 100€ used think centre running photoshop (I’m starting to figure out krita/gimp but pixel editing is a bummer there IMO) and 3dsmax for when I need them.
Edit: no internet connection for that box ofc.
This is just but the small first step. I was basically checking what it will take to daily drive linux on my desktop, and there’s many little roadblocks that I’m just instead considering getting a Win 11 pro license next year and just turning off all the shit in gpedit.
Linux has come a long way, and it’s probably enough for some but it would be a massive headache for me still…
Yea, it’s definitely not for everyone yet. But the average user (who needs a browser, a file manager and maybe an office suite) has no reason to stay on windows besides the convenience of being installed already.
You can mount and sync your OneDrive files with rclone, which I think is much nicer than OneDrive, but maybe not easy to set up if you’re not comfortable with command line interfaces.
You know that you dont have to pay for a Windows license right? You can permanently activate it (and any version of office) with a script. I found some article a while ago talking about it, some official Microsoft tech support used it because they were frustrated with Windows, so it’s legit
massgrave.dev
I do computer repair/tech support for just a small business. I haven’t used Windows on a a personal machine in a looong time, but that script helps me when I get stuck at work
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/728a89ef-6053-43b4-8719-52e775d62475.webp">
.
Buy an expensive license
Install the software on hardware you own
Company puts ads on it that weren’t there when you bought the license
2024 is wild. Run Linux.
I jumped ship to PopOS a few months back.
There are some issues, like Bluetooth not starting without some terminal commands, I think I have to wipe or otherwise mess around with my 1TB NTFS storage drive to mount it and stuff like that.
But all the games I’ve tried to play work fine.
CPU: 3700x GPU: 4090
PopOS is pretty great. There is a polish to it that I haven’t seen in some other distros. Which is why it remains on my main gaming rig even though I have considered distro hopping for a while now.
Can’t you make an script and make it autoload on start?
It’s kinda like AAA game companies waiting for a couple of weeks after a title’s release (and all the reviews are done) before rolling out the micro-transaction market (and the corresponding game-balance adjustments).
Funny how when Windows XP had dial-in activation we warned that this would drift over to games if we tolerated it, and then it did.
100%. Every time consumers tolerate something, it will get worse. On the other hand, it seems so simple to tell people “just don’t buy a product that does X”, but in practice, it’s almost impossible to get people to stop giving these companies money.
This is why consumer-protection regulations are necessary.
Well, hardly any consumer actively buys Windows since it comes pre-installed on most PCs.
People will yell, gnash their teeth, and greivously complain about terrible things and issues.
but they, for the overwhelming majority of them, will refuse to ever give up their precious shiny and make a change, and will eagerly throw out money at every opportunity for it. If not directly at buying them, then at buying secondary related items, or by watching ads.
First, going to say that putting ads into Win10 is bad.
But I also wonder, how many people even use the start menu anymore? I almost never even look at mine. I use it for one thing: to shut down my computer. All of my most used apps are on the quick launch bar or are shortcuts on my desktop.
I hit the win key they start typing immediately if I don’t already have it pinned below, usually rarely run software or control panel
I can’t believe they’ll put this on windows 10 pro.
that’s what’s kicking me,why would a professional license used primarily for business need ANY kind of advertisement/popup/nag from their OS? fuck off Microsoft
Microsoft don’t hold back from the ads and crapware in the Pro versions of Windows. The Enterprise versions tend to be where you get some control over it.
Remember when you payed for software and then it was yours forever?
If you MUST use windows for work or something, at least install OpenShell. Otherwise, use Linux. It’s so easy to switch for most use cases. Even gaming on Linux has come a very long way.
Said like I’m the admin of my work PC. Doesn’t matter though, I’ll have the IT department policy edit this out of existence the same way I did their stupid windows 11 splash page ads.
Fair point. I convincing the IT department at the past couple of jobs that I need it for productivity, and they can firewall it if it makes them feel better (I’ll let them know run updates are available, and they can push the update).
I wouldn’t do that as that’s not supported by Microsoft and I’m sure they will do everything they can to break it.
While I appreciate the sentiment, I’m not walking on eggshells while using my own (or my company’s) computer. If/when they’ll break it, either the community will overcome, or I lose the tool. Until then, though, I’ll keep using the tool that has proven benefits to the end users. I mean this will no disrespect to you at all, fuck Microsoft.
The fact that people pay hundreds of dollars for this OS to get advertised to is insulting. Same energy as these smart TVs that feel like they have the right to show you ads.
If I’m dictator, I’m making this shit illegal, full stop.
Dang I thought Windows 10 would be safe from this for some reason. Silly me.
no security updates, only ads
Windows 10 already had ads, I don’t see why MS would be adverse to adding more.
See and my friends give me shit for running KDE, soon they’ll have to click past a Viagra ad to do so.
IS THE ENTIRE FUCKING ECONOMY BASED ON ADS??? WHO THE FUCK IS PAYING FOR ALL THESE SHITTY ADS??? WHO EVER YOU ARE, GET FUCKED WITH YOUR PRODUCT!
Yes, literally anyone that wants to sell a product or provide a service relies, to a large degree, on advertising.
It’s been this way for over a century.
Who even buys shit because of ads?
If they advertise, then the OS needs to be free. I’m not paying for an OS that profits off me too.
I don’t recall ever paying for Windows, so there’s that. Once in a while I had a genuine license that came bundled with something, but most of the time, I don’t.
Aside from pirating, if you got Windows with a new pc/laptop, then you paid for Windows in the price of the device.
I always go for customized builds without OS. Those instances where I had a license were either work computers or licenses I got through uni.
Heh
Funny. Not long after all the spyware was inserted into Win 10, they imported it into Win 7, and we got a general notice to not install those updates (or uninstall them).
Yeah, Microsoft was always a shit.
And I thought Win7 was immune from enshittification
Microsoft was shit in the 90s and never stopped being shit.
Chilling in Windows 7
Keep that system airgapped.
Honestly that isn’t a terrible solution depending on what you use it for. If its just to play older games that is perfectly acceptable
I’m not partitioning my system, I’m getting a clean slate.
Yeah yeah, Linux is our saviour.
I call bullshit. Charge Microsoft criminally. Sue them into the ground! We will never get enough people to truly harm them just by leaving, so we need to FUCKING DESTROY ANY COMPANY THAT PULLS THIS BULLSHIT!
Sue them for what exactly?
Because I hate them. It should be a criminal offense to be on my bad side
Sue first, ask questions later!
<img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/2a80ff4d-00cd-4695-b528-b80678277ab1.jpeg">
they’ve already been doing this on windows 10 though.
Adguard for windows!
Sorry I have Tourette’s
Classic Start says nah.
Classic Shell is awful as it can be.
I’m unironically beginning to view Microsoft as one of my favorite companies. They treat their cattle just right. Hopefully they’ll start arbitrarily deleting local files.
Is there anything the cattle won’t tolerate? LETS FIND OUT
They already do that. If you click “yes” on everything they recommend like good cattle, they’ll upload the contents of your user folders to OneDrive and delete the local copies.
Yup, they already caught me once with that one when I was in a hurry and I had all these damn green check marks everywhere. I was so disappointed thought I had avirus. I will never use one drive just because of that.
Now I know what the menu is when clicking the profile picture. I wondered if I was going insane and misremembered how to log out. :|
Well… it’s time to HOST style AdBlock to shine baby…
If you use HAGEZI Ultimate Aggressive, 1Host Pro, StevenBlack, & Hblock filters in your machine, you practically immune to Microsoft ads
or just swich away and let them have their little sandbox to themselves
Paying for an OS that phones home with incredible amounts of telemetry where you have to run adblock to get rid of the built in ads is just silly.
As a long time Linux user, thank you M$!
I’m in the EU and use Windows 10 LTSC so I mostly clear off of this bulshit. A few months ago I bought a cheap refurbished laptop to use occasionally and decided from day 1 it would be Linux Mint only since I only use it for the basics.
A few months later and I’m surprised how far Mint came. It’s so easy to use. Customizing it was a bit harder but nothing major. And to my surprise…even games. I threw a couple of games at it and everything the computer can handle would run. I was from the time where gaming on Linux was a no-no.
When LTSC support goes, I’ll most likely go full Linux. The only problem is the Adobe software but maybe I can fix that with a virtual machine.
What kind of out of the ordinary things cannot be done with it?
I switched from Windows 3.11 and I’m still puzzled by this.
The way your comment reads, you’ve been using Windows 3.11 these past decades. 😂
Why fix what isn’t broken
Cannot be done with Mint? I’ve OS hopped every few years - currently running Windows 11 at work and Mint at home. I much prefer the Mint install. That said, I’m a video producer - and video production just isn’t there yet on Linux. CUDA’s a pain to get working, proprietary codecs add steps, Davinci’s linux support is more limited than it seems, KDenLive works in a pinch but lacks features, Adobe and Linux are like oil and water, there’s no equivalent for After Effects… I don’t doubt that there are workarounds for many of these issues. But the ROI’s not there yet. I’d love to see a video production focused distro that really aimed for full production suite functionality. Especially since Hackintoshes are about to get even harder to build.
I guess that’s a valid edge case. Although I thought that some professional editing suites had been ported (not Adobe’s, obviously). Apparently it’s not the case.
I always love when people pretend to be mystified that someone has trouble running programs on Linux when I, a non Linux user, see plenty of examples of people having trouble getting programs to run on Linux scrolling through “Everything” on Lemmy
Well, some people want to run programs on Linux that were written for other operating systems.
As it happens, it can be done, but it’s not the simplest way to do things.
It’s like buying a PlayStation and complaining it won’t run Super Mario properly.
What if those are the basics?
If those are your basics, have you considered running a Nintendo system?
I tried but Nintendo issued a DMCA takedown
We need to remind ourselves that there’s an entire generation that has grown up with smartphones and only touching a laptop or a desktop pc occasionally. For them, windows or chromeOS alone is a challenge. Linux is just an isekai waiting to happen when you cross that bridge of no return.
I tried that LTSC a couple years ago when I had a Nvidia card and I couldn’t get a driver install that would let me play the new release games.
With the craziness around Adobe products you might want to move away from Adobe at some point as well.
I do, unfortunately there are no efficient alternatives.
Didn’t they already put ads in the Windows 10 start menu? Every time I see a fresh Windows 10 install, it’s got candy crush and a bunch of promotional links to Microsoft apps in the windows store (office, Outlook, etc.) in the start menu.
Tbh my biggest gripe with Windows 11 isn’t even the ads, you can disable them or – like I did back when I used Win11 on a spare partition for VR gaming – just install a start menu replacement like startallback. My biggest gripe is that they removed the fullscreen launcher and mobile/touch optimized metro app system (ik windows store apps exist, but they behave like regular windows apps, which is awkward on a tablet when you’re using it without the keyboard cover). I liked that Windows 10 basically kept all the Windows 8 tablet features, but made them optional so that you can have a full desktop experience on a tablet. Now windows 11 just feels kind of poorly designed and clunky on a tablet PC.
I ended up installing ChromeOS on my tablet through Project Brunch just to get a decent, polished-feeling tablet interface (with android apps, which is a huge plus since that’s already a massive library of touch-optimized software). I run NixOS on my main PC, but for the tablet it was either Linux+GNOME (GNOME is the only desktop DE with acceptable touch support imo, especially paired with the cosmic shell extension for automatic window tiling), or ChromeOS, and I tried a bunch of different distros (including open-source chromiumOS distros like FydeOS).
In the end, I liked FydeOS, but ChromeOS through Brunch Framework has extra features I’d rather not live without (like Android phone connectivity), and FydeOS has borked touch support on the OpenFyde releases, so I’d need to use the proprietary Fyde For You builds with specific drivers for the Surface Pro 4, but those cost money after 90 days, and if I’m using a proprietary OS, I might as well pick the free one. If you’ve never used ChromeOS, it’s basically like if stock Google android had a good desktop mode and could (easily/officially) run desktop Linux apps.
Everybody should learn about pihole.
Or pfBlockerng
Pfblocking?
www.patreon.com/pfBlockerNG is a addon for pfsense which is a router os for X86/64 machines. If you don’t want to block porn it will run on nearly anything. You can block all dns over tls or https. Many of the list you need can be selected in the gui.
docs.netgate.com/pfsense/en/…/pfblocker.html
It’s a component of the pfSense firewall, although calling it a firewall seems like an understatement. It’s also capable of routing, DDNS, IDS/IPS, and lots of other things.
That won’t stop in operating system ads.
Windows 10 will be my last Windows operating system. It’s been fine and it works well enough. I’ve already started setting up a drive with Linux Mint 22 for use moving forward.
In the same boat. Mint has some growing pains but for mainly web browsing I’ve been enjoying an OS that doesn’t feel like a ad billboard or a data snitch.
Yess yesssss let the linux flow throughhhh youuuuuuu. Manjaro XFCE here. Play with the distros in Oracle Virtual Machines and find the right one for you. Linux desktop is seriously worth the effort. Check out Yakuake as a Quake style drop down terminal to get to hacky stuff. Learn everything about Linux. It’s fun!
if you don’t feel like setting up a vm, use distrosea :] free website that sets it up for you in-browser
my laptop has windows 10, just so i can stream amazon prime since they choke it down to like 320p on linux.
This is not just gonna make me put linux on my laptop, but make me cancel streaming subscriptions too. congrats microsoft. You’re fucking everyone.
Surely you will
Well, I may be a random idiot, but I’m not stupid enough to keep paying for something that doesnt work on not-windows.
So you keep feeling weirdly haughty about it, i guess, you clearly need it for some reason.
I was on 8.1 when 10 was released. They never brought the good features to 8.1 back then, so I never expected them to do it now.
Every time I see crap like this makes me even happier I ditched it a year and a half ago. If you switch to Linux and started with mint but don’t like it, give PopOs a test drive. It’s been flawless for me.
My main issue is my home computer is for gaming. Have you gamed on Linux? If so, are most games compatible?
I don’t think it’s most yet, but it’s improving fast thanks to the Valve Steam Deck. Bazzite is probably the distro to look at for a machine that’s primarily for gaming; it’s based on the Steam Deck OS, but works on more machines. There are some high-profile games like Fortnite that won’t run on it, but a lot of stuff will, especially if it doesn’t rely on any fancy anti-cheat stuff.
Since Valve released the Steam Deck, which runs on Linux, there is an increasing number of games that are compatible. In some cases you can also emulate windows, or just keep it on your computer and use a dual boot system (even tho Microsoft messed up big time with this kind of installation recently)
I also only game on my home PC and I’ve been using it for over a year now with Linux. I play CS 2, WOWS and Battletech mainly but check protondb.com for your games. My kids are also using Linux and they also were able to play everything they wanted.
There are a few AAA games with cheat protection that won’t work. Other than that: It’s awesome and you feel the freedom instantly!
somehow I guess it’s still not common knowledge yet but basically everything that doesn’t need a kernel anti cheat will work. or maybe not newer dotnet crap but usually those aren’t games. mods and cheats are hit and miss and require some setup, but mostly work anyway. for most games protondb lists what works with and without tinkering but even some of the stuff listed as not working actually does in my experience. pcgamingwiki info is still usefull for a lot fixes to known problems on all platforms.
amd graphics should work out of the box but sometimes the newest cards have issues for a while after release. Any modern distro will not need extra setup as long as the maintainers aren’t too far behind.
nvidia requires manual intervention for most distros but some have installers that default to nvidia graphics. expect some jank, there’s a lot of weird shit that can go wrong with kernel modules not matching the kernel version among other things.
other hardware can also be problematic and people like myself who have been selecting hardware specifically for linux compatibility may give the idea that nothing is wrong.
I recommend nobara or bazzite for gaming setups that will require little to no addititonal work to play games and most hardware that is possible to work just working out of the box or with a guided config.
If you want to go with a non gaming oriented distro (trust me don’t unless you do it on a spare comp or vm for experimentation), then debian, or mint debian, one of the easy arch installers even, but don’t do ubuntu. Weird shit will inevitability happen eventually and the old guides and crap ai articles with outdated information from the mail order ubuntu cd days will make it way too confusing to fix unless you are a web search sorceror.
Popos is Ubuntu and has been my main driver for gaming for a few years now, with an nvidia 3080ti even.
Its been more reliable than my other setup with nvidia and endeavour.
I dont think its worth generalizing entire groups of distros, because that implies they all behave similarly.
It’s a complex issue and kind of depends on your games and your hardware and your software. In general, you can definitely count out major competitive multiplayer titles that rely on aggressive kernel-level anti-cheat software, since that is essentially spyware and it’s incompatible with Linux. Furthermore, very new titles often pose problems, as the primary target audience is always Windows. Linux compatibility is seldom considered by big publishers, and as such the FOSS community has to pick up the slack. With the release of the Steam Deck, Valve released a custom version of Wine called Proton, which acts as a compatibility layer between Windows and Linux specifically for Steam Games, but even that kind of is hit and miss. There’s a website called protondb that is trying to categorize game compatibility but even good rankings (gold / diamond) usually require some small amount of fiddling with settings.
Overall, if you want to have a single-click to launch games experience, you’re sadly still bound to Windows most of the time. But if you have the patience to experiment and learn new things, there’s way more tools and possibilities than ever before. Just be prepared to troubleshoot some things.
Only issue I’ve had is helldivers 2 being slightly finicky and needing to delete the config file occasionally. Otherwise 10/10
P r o t o n
All I do is watch some vids and game. I have only come across one game I can’t get to play and it’s flight simulator x. If steam says it’ll play on steam deck, you’re 100% golden. If it says unsupported, do a quick web search for protondb and search the game there. I’ve played a few that steam said wouldn’t work and they do. As far as how well they play, it’s been awesome, no complaints. I’m a linux newbie and don’t know shit and it’s been painless. I did try mint and nobara, and had issues trying to get mint to play games, and nobara worked good but after a week I lost my sound and I liked the way the workspaces works much better with popOs
Appreciate the time taken to type a response. Did you follow any videos or guides of any sort? It’s been a loooong time since I’ve setup dual boot on a system and I’m wondering if complexity has been simplified at all.
I went full send and didn’t do dual boot. It’s not bad to do dual boot though, however, I would watch a guide on it.
I’ve gamed on Linux for the past 5 years. If you use Steam, most stuff works out of the box after you enable a single setting. Now that the linux gaming community is growing it’s easier to find workarounds for the games that don’t work. The only games that are hopelessly broken right now are games with intrusive anti-cheats that don’t support Linux. You can head over to protondb.com and check compatibility status for your games, including workarounds when necessary.
If you don’t use Steam, then I’m not sure. Last time I played non-Steam games there was more troubleshooting and tweaking required but it’s been a couple of years and I don’t know the current state. It’s worth noting that Valve’s compatibility layer, Proton, is open-source and based on other open-source projects. There’s work currently being done to port the functionality outside of Steam. Hopefully, this will mean that in the future all launchers will behave similarly.
But that’s just the software side of things. Don’t forget to check how your hardware works on Linux as well.
Use Heroic launcher for Epic games, it works great for everything I’ve put through it (including anti-cheat riddled stuff like GTA5 and Fall Guys). Heroic also supports GOG games. Lutris does the rest but can be a bit hit and miss compared to Steam/Heroic.
It depends on the games
Do you play older or newer games? Do you play competitively?
Either way you should checkout protondb
Queue everyone downgrading to Windows 8 in 3, 2, 1.
No no no, you want Linux desktop. Install Oracle VirtualBox and play with the different linux desktop distros and find the right one that’s best for you. It’s fun. It’s not filled with spyware and adware and isn’t bloated with Microsoft’s crazy antics. And, it’s free. Once it’s installed check out this: github.com/tycrek/degoogle to de-herpes your internet experience and 👍
linux ftw
Or just use Hyper-V since it’s natively available and one should refrain from touching Oracle with a ten-foot pole. I know it’s just a means to an end but better to avoid bad vendors if at all possible.
There once was a time when I would have recommended VMWare, since Workstation is now free for personal use and HyperV is missing crucial direct hardware throughput, but… It’s shit now. Doesn’t work properly under W11.
Why does every tech company seem to have reached the ‘collapse’ part of enshittification simultaneously? Couldn’t they have staggered it a little?
virt-manager has worked fine for me.
Me too, on Linux, but this was about Windows.
Ah crap, you’re right.
inb4 all windows versions get ads
Learning Linux gets more tempting every day. Either that or government needs to pass laws against shit like this but I doubt that will ever happen.
Let me give you a tip. Theres nothing to “learn” it’s just a different way of clicking on some things. If all your gonna do is use steam and Internet browser just do it. There is nothing magical. Just use popOS or Ubuntu. They’re made for ease of use.
Mint is great for beginners IMO
I use Mint on all my devices right now. Mint is great! My favorite part being it’s an operation system that stays out of your way.
I mean, there’s a LOT more to it than just, “a different way of clicking on things”. Let’s be honest and help define proper expectations. You will be messing around in the terminal a lot. Even for installing simple programs, you’ll at minimum be copy-pasting a bunch of commands from the developer’s website straight into the terminal to install most stuff. There are package managers, to help alleviate some of the pain, but there are multiple ecosystems and each one has it’s own contributors, meaning that overall development and technical knowledge is gated behind silos.
I love Linux, but let’s be honest, it’s not exactly user-friendly.
Absolutely! To make it easier you can even tell chatgpt to write a whole terminal script to install X or do Y. And then never think about it again. But for the average user, setting up proton on steam is as deep as it needs to be.
I would recommend Fedora as it’s been the most stable regularly updated distro for me.
Well, I was gonna run win10 until its service life ends next year. I guess MS want to speed up the timeline a little.
Arch here I come.
Join the free side. We have penguins.
Already run it on my laptop, and used to dual boot. I’m just trying let proton mature as much as possible before migrating my desktop for good.
Didn’t microsoft kill major updates for win10 in 22h2
“Well yes, but actually no”
Just like Windows 10 was announced to be the last Windows version and it was supposed to be a rolling release product.
And then they needed to artificially restrict what hardware Windows runs on to please the OEMs and their computer sales so we got Windows 11, cutting off a lot of recent and still more than capable enough hardware ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Alr
Protip: Install Windows Server as your desktop OS. It comes without all that crap.
Protip: Install Linux because FUCK MICROSOFT!
Some people need to use actually good productivity applications on their computers.
LibreOffice, Inkscape, OpenShot, GIMP, etc. just aren’t particularly good. No HDR support is embarrassing at this day and age.
I have installed Linux more often than Windows and MacOS and it’s not even my main operating system. What Linux offers me is a bunch of similar desktop environments all running the same mediocre applications. I want to get stuff done, not fiddle with window managers and packet managers all day.
Installing Linux to express your feelings about Microsoft might be emotionally therapeutic, but that’s about it.
I was so startled to find LibreOffice Calc, the Excel-alike, had completely different keyboard shortcuts than Excel, completely messing with my muscle memory every. Single. Time. How are businesses supposed to adapt when they need to factor in the time loss for every Excel-using employee to learn the arbitrary new control scheme?
Just request Libre Office Calc to be able to import Excel shortcuts.
Having different keyboard shortcuts takes some getting used to for sure. However it’s not like Excel is the end all be all of spreadsheet usability. Business often depend on some idiosyncratic excel sheet, that doesn’t work in Calc in the first place.
LibreOffice isn’t terrible. The Writer is actually pretty okay. The spreadsheet and presentation software feels like something from 15 years ago though.
IDK man, I’ve been using it exclusively on my main desktop at home and I’ve been getting along just fine with those “not particularly good” applications.
Well, it depends on what your cases are. It’s great that Linux can fulfill your needs.
Been using it just fine on my Desktop. Blender 3D and Krita are equally as good, and in some cases better, than the subscription based programs. Libre Office has the same functionality as MS Word, but supports more formats. Every other daily use program, such as Firefox or VLC runs just as fine on Linux as it does anywhere else. I’ve had virtually no issues running games from my Steam library, even ones that aren’t officially supported.
Sure. Everyone’s requirement for a desktop is different. Blender is very good for sure and Krita is decent. However for painting and drawing Krita doesn’t hold a candle to Procreate on an iPad. As for games, if you’re not a super serious gamer, there’s tons of stuff that runs on Linux nowadays for sure.
My phone records 4K video in HDR, which I then can neither view nor edit properly on Linux. Do you have VLC 3 running with working HDR support?
Eeeeewww. Why would I want to fuck something so small and limp?
I wouldn’t as that’s expensive and way overkill. You want a Windows version that is LTS.
Evaluation licence can be used for 6 months and can be extended several times.
How the fuck are people OK with this?!
What are you gonna do about it? Install Linux?
Followed by smug mentions of cheap OEM keys and massgrave repo. Yeah, that ain’t gonna fly for work laptops, guys.
Obligatory PS mentioning that I do use linux everyday on my personal machine
How to avoid: right click the start icon (or press win + x) and go to “Shut down or sign out” that way.
I try not using the Windows start menu anymore because I hate seeing the little “notification” bubble on my profile, when dismissing it it returns within a few days!
Yes Microsoft, I am aware I cancelled 365. Thanks for reminding me why I did so.
I shit you not, whenever the issues of Microsoft are brought up in my friend group, there is one guy who pops up and defends Microsoft with “Well it’s not a problem for me. I do t see the big deal at all! It’s only a few ads.”
I don’t think you get a choice.
You DO get a choice. You can shift to any other operating system in the world. I did go to Fedora with KDE.
I have to use a windows 11 machine for work, and it genuinely surprises me how terrible it is. I don’t understand the opposition to local accounts - if I’m working somewhere with public WiFi/capture portal, I have to use my phone as a hotspot first.
The PIN log in seems to roll a random number and decide each morning whether it is going to work or not.
I also got a laptop with 11 on it for gaming. So much spyware I’ve had to uninstall, configuring anything is a nightmare. I was trying to adjust my mouse sensitivity/figure out why the scroll wheel is either 0 or to the moon, but even when you dig into the control panel, half the settings are missing.
I also had to turn off my WiFi and google commands to make a local account, because otherwise Microsoft accounts are mandatory.
Every change seems to make the experience actively worse for the user.
Can’t stand them forcing onedrive on users as well as pushing online versions of the applications that are inferior in every way.
Finally they are actually using there brains. They need to make Windows 10 as bad as possible to get people to switch.
Seriously though, in W11 it’s super easy to disable this shit.
Start Menu:
Personalization > Start > “Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more.” (OFF)
Lock Screen:
Personalization > Lock Screen > Change from “Weather ‘and more’” to “None”.
Search:
Settings > Search > Permissions & History > Turn it ALL off. Cloud, Work/School, etc.