Move Fast and Break Nothing | Waymo’s robotaxis are probably safer than ChatGPT. (www.theatlantic.com)
from silence7@slrpnk.net to technology@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 13:30
https://slrpnk.net/post/28345903

#technology

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Sanctus@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 14:11 next collapse

But they didnt move fast at all. I saw people driving Waymo’a for years before I saw the first automated one hit the streets. They took their damn time which I am sure was expensive and worth it.

andrewrgross@slrpnk.net on 03 Oct 14:46 next collapse

This article is a little light on thesis, but legit.

Personally, I’d like to tie a vision of autonomous vehicles to a broad rethinking of transit and public ownership. What if training data was shared, so instead of allowing Google to create another monopoly we deliberately cultivated a diverse market? What if we designed roads to accommodate autonomous van pools and also bikes and more light vehicles?

We can dream better than this.

glimse@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 14:58 next collapse

Years ago, Microsoft was doing some R&D on autonomous vehicles in a mock city built for it. Instead of each vehicle doing all of the processing, the fake city was built with wireless markers to GIVE the car the information. Like instead of having to “see” a stop sign, the stop sign told cars it was there.

It would be complicated and expensive to implement on a mass scale but I thought it was a really cool idea.

altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 03 Oct 19:34 next collapse

That test sounds like a model trainroad but for billionaires.

glimse@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 19:51 collapse

Sure. But it’s not like the technology they developed is useless outside of an autonomous city, I’m sure they went into it knowing it would never be implemented for real.

FatCrab@slrpnk.net on 04 Oct 11:45 collapse

Effectively, this has been an ongoing initiative across DoTs for a long while now. The issue is that it’s a hodgepodge approach baked piecemeal into various grants and other programs. But, yeah, digital, vendor agnostic, secure transit infrastructure is always on a lot of DOT folks’ minds.

Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 03 Oct 19:03 next collapse

autonomous van pools

We could even call them busses

andrewrgross@slrpnk.net on 04 Oct 19:36 collapse

I love buses too, but a van pool is materially different. Buses travel fixed routes. A van pool can act as a shared taxi that shuttles people directly between points of immediate departure, transit stations, and final destinations.

captainlezbian@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 20:31 collapse

I for one believe we’re capable of building trains

sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 03 Oct 14:48 next collapse

Move fast, break laws, escape repercussions.

WanderingThoughts@europe.pub on 03 Oct 18:54 collapse

They moved on to calling it “disrupting the market”. I think the latest is “Revolutionize the way we do …”. Same thing really.

zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com on 05 Oct 02:51 collapse

10x!!!

_cryptagion@anarchist.nexus on 03 Oct 15:42 next collapse

Yeah but they didn’t move fast. autonomous road vehicles have been in development by one company or another for what, twenty years at least? It’s only in the last couple of years that they’ve started hitting the road.

suigenerix@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 17:45 collapse

Yep, the DARPA Grand Challenge of 2004 spurred the modern self-driving car era. But attempts at self driving cars were made as early as the 70s - earlier, depending on how you define autonomous driving. And Waymo has had driveless cars on roads since 2017.

Aatube@kbin.melroy.org on 03 Oct 16:03 next collapse

LIDAR, baby!

QuinnyCoded@sh.itjust.works on 03 Oct 19:16 collapse

lidar Deez nuts

gottem

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 03 Oct 16:03 next collapse

yea right. time will tell.

silence7@slrpnk.net on 03 Oct 16:34 next collapse

There is a very large safety difference between Waymo and Tesla robotaxis right now.

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 03 Oct 16:54 collapse

teslas looked safe for a while though. imma take my time.

silence7@slrpnk.net on 03 Oct 17:29 collapse

Tesla robotaxis had a string of crashes their first day

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 03 Oct 21:27 collapse

i didn’t know that 😂

Psythik@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 07:38 collapse

As someone who has been on over 50 Waymo rides, I trust them more than any human driver. They drive extremely carefully see things coming that I would have never seen coming. Only thing that annoys me is that they do stupid little things like turning left from the left lane instead of the center lane, or cruising in the left lane, exactly at the speed limit.

wewbull@feddit.uk on 03 Oct 18:23 next collapse

Safer than ChatGPT you say? Wow…

That isn’t a high bar.

JcbAzPx@lemmy.world on 03 Oct 20:42 next collapse

That probably is not so comforting when one of them is in control of half a ton of metal, plastic and glass in public.

Maeve@kbin.earth on 03 Oct 20:59 next collapse

They're mobile spyware belonging to an alphabet agency.

MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip on 04 Oct 10:59 next collapse

And a orange safer than a knive.

melfie@lemy.lol on 04 Oct 12:42 next collapse

I believe Waymo’s strategy has always been to shoot for level 5 autonomous driving and not bother with the others. Tesla not following that strategy has proven them correct. You either have a system that is safe, reliable, and fully autonomous, or you’ve got nothing. Not that Waymo has a system at this point that can work under all conditions, but their approach is definitely superior to Tesla’s if nothing else.

JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz on 05 Oct 05:18 next collapse

From what I’ve seen, most issues with Waymo are that they are too careful, too rigid with laws and too easy to fool with things like traffic cones and lines of spray paint. Meanwhile Teslas speed past stopped school buses mowing down children and crash in to walls and parked cars at highway speeds.

Imma take my chances with the car stuck in the middle of the road because someone plopped a traffic cone on the hood, thank you very much.

SulaymanF@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 05:43 collapse

Waymo is currently level 4 autonomous driving. The difference between levels 4 and 5 is that level 4 is geofenced and level 5 is not. (And level 5 has no steering controls).

beemikeoak@lemmynsfw.com on 04 Oct 13:54 next collapse

Except for people just walking around getting irradiated at a high enough level to provide feedback for the taxi’s radar. I assume people will start getting cancer… The cancer levels might be funny like 98% on people’s left side or maybe only on people who walk on the sunny or shaded side of busy streets.

I’d give it a few years for the cancers to start showing up.

silence7@slrpnk.net on 04 Oct 14:40 next collapse

Here’s the thing: wavelengths shorter than visible light cause cancer. Wavelengths longer…don’t. They’re using the long wavelengths.

beemikeoak@lemmynsfw.com on 04 Oct 16:58 collapse

Not exactly how that works. But go ahead.

Giblet2708@lemmy.sdf.org on 04 Oct 17:08 collapse

Not exactly how that works.

Got any pointers to references we can read up to learn more?

beemikeoak@lemmynsfw.com on 04 Oct 17:19 collapse

The Wavelengths used are 0.905microns to 1.55microns, while Class A, they are still lasers.

If you happen to be carrying the right sort of material on your skin for example, the wavelength could halve or quadruple. That would locally irradiate you at UV or microwave.

People looking straight at the sensor could get cataracts or irritated corneas.

Its unnecessary technology exposing everyone around it to new unknowns.

scratchee@feddit.uk on 04 Oct 17:35 next collapse

If near infrared (1000nm) can become uv with the wrong material, surely visible light from the sun can do the same and would become an even more dangerous wavelength? Or is this an effect that only happens to near-infrared? Ive not come across it before…

silence7@slrpnk.net on 04 Oct 17:55 next collapse

Let’s say it halved. That’s visible light, which at low wattage, is harmless.

If it quadrupled, its still infrared. Also harmless at those wattages

Remember here: youre dealing with something that is less harmful than visible light. So whatever fear you have must be much worse when it comes to things like daylight, indoor lighting, headlights, etc

floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 04 Oct 21:23 next collapse

You are very confident for someone who uses radar and laser interchangeably

Revan343@lemmy.ca on 04 Oct 22:07 collapse

I mean if they’re going to misuse words, might as well do it with confidence

sefra1@lemmy.zip on 04 Oct 23:38 collapse

Wouldn’t that sort of material also double the frequency of any other light source? Like a street lamp or the sun?

suigenerix@lemmy.world on 04 Oct 18:11 next collapse

The sustained dose from a class 1 lidar is well below critical safety levels. You’re no more likely to get cancer from car lidar than you are from regular use of household LED lights. But sure, let’s just add lidar to the long list of things that people will irrationally scaremonger about.

bobbiguy2122@lemmynsfw.com on 04 Oct 20:16 collapse

They’re using lidar not radar, it doesn’t cause cancer, but prolonged exposure can damage your eyes because it’s basically just blasting IR rays 24/7

fleck@lemmy.world on 05 Oct 06:35 collapse

Even radar would not cause cancer. At least not that I know of

Kissaki@feddit.org on 05 Oct 05:52 collapse

or seemingly an act of God. (In one case, a pickup truck being towed in front of a Waymo came loose and smashed into the vehicle.)

Baffling to see god mentioned as a possible cause.

rarbg@lemmy.zip on 05 Oct 06:19 next collapse

God should’ve secured his load

atthecoast@feddit.nl on 05 Oct 07:28 collapse

“Act of God” is actually a legal term and not really a religious reference and more. It means a freak event that cannot really be anticipated or planned for.

Kissaki@feddit.org on 05 Oct 07:41 collapse

Seriously? That’s crazy. I didn’t know that.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God

In legal usage in the English-speaking world, an act of God, act of nature, or damnum fatale …