I am wondering about the software side. Is it just a glorified monitor for your face, or does it have some kind of internal control/OS like a Quest or other commercial headset?
boydster@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Oct 22:42
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Looks like it has an inertial sensor to control the view, here’s there relevant bit from the article:
The parts he purchased online include two displays that max out at 2880×1440p and 90 Hz refresh rate, two lenses, an IMU (Inertial Measurement Unit) sensor, and an Arduino microcontroller board. The other parts of the headset were 3D-printed.
…
The headset features individually adjustable IPD, interchangeable faceplates, and head tracking. But it does have downsides — at full resolution, it only runs at 60 Hz. Also, it only has three degrees of freedom (3DoF), which means it tracks looking up and down, left and right, and tilting the head left and right. He explained he didn’t bother equipping it with 6DoF as 3DoF was enough for his sim racing.
It seems to only have an Arduino as processor, so presumably the former i.e. you need a PC to plug this into. It seems to have highly simplified tracking compared to something like a Quest - a single Inertial Measurement Unit. All enough for sim racing which is this guy’s jam, but I wonder how well the tracking stays calibrated.
Creat@discuss.tchncs.de
on 13 Oct 23:41
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The critical thing with these is response time. If it’s even slightly too high (I think 20-30ms is easily too high), some/many people get very motion sick. Getting that time down as low as needed is also not trivial.
With it only being 60 Hz on the controller itself, that’s basically impossible to hit. That’s 16.6 ms already. Then the processing, sending to the PC, and the PC reacting has a budget of just a few ms? Yea, not happening.
I’m assuming he’s really not sensitive to this. As it’s open source now the people who are sensitive can improve it. That’s the beauty of open source after all.
RebekahWSD@lemmy.world
on 14 Oct 02:58
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Normal video games can make me motion sick so I can only imagine how bad this might be! Maybe in the future it’ll get better!
It relies on the Relativity VR driver so theoretically similar software support, namely github.com/relativty/Relativty#14-software-setup but mind you beside being 5 years old this is 3DoF, no controller or hand tracking, whereas the Quest is 6DoF, namely you can move around, not just turn your head.
vividspecter@aussie.zone
on 14 Oct 02:41
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Linux support has made some decent strides, particularly with the open source monado / wivrn + xrizer stack (steamvr / alvr still have their issues but are getting better).
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
on 14 Oct 02:46
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I’m quite curious to see how quest 3 works with godot & openxr, apparently they have a build you can run on android inside the quest 3 and do vr-dev in vr.
As another user said Linux compatibility has been huge the past couple of years.
And PSVR2 has had some amazing games out that have completely changed the way I experience VR. And they also opened up their headset to PC via steam with an external dongle.
Mainly the accessibility has been at an all time high. But the games that have come out lately too are amazing. I can even do cross play multiplayer with many different headsets now which is also super cool.
Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world
on 14 Oct 00:38
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Overall is that even a deal over a used headset? Even a fully featured non-stripped down one? Like given what features his headset does have, it’s comparable to some pretty old headsets… and it likely does even those bare minimum features more poorly than an older used headset would. Not to mention comfort.
Like a 10 year old Rift CV1 has almost as much resolution at 90hz/fps instead of 60. And while it’s lenses would be relatively terrible now, they were pretty much the best option of their day, and likely still better than whatever this dude sourced. Not to mention their motion to photon was around 12 ms. The absolute best result this guy can hope for is 16.6ms, and that’s only if everything else in the pipeline is faster than the screens refresh rate… maybe it is… but I wouldn’t bet on it personally.
No, it’s not a deal. It’s only about learning IMHO and that’s already be great.
In fact it’s such a “bad” deal that I replied a bit in depth. My goal isn’t to bring the project down, heck I’m even envious about being able to do all that, but rather that people curious about VR don’t get confused. This is nearly a decade outdated and there are better open solutions, e.g. Lynx or even Meta Quest 2 without account IMHO.
Evil_Shrubbery@thelemmy.club
on 14 Oct 04:14
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Huh, this is kinda prefect for me too, only the refresh rate might be an issue.
I wonder if I could buy cheap no-name headset & fit in that arduino chippy.
It’s always cool to see such projects, and I was discussing about the topic just yesterday.
… but please, don’t spend $150 on that. This is limited has it has :
no controllers (and gamepads aren’t spatial),
no hand tracking (which would be spatial),
no 6DoF, so you can’t move your head or body around, just turn your head around
a very limited software stack, e.g. no OpenXR (AFAICT),
a cable to be plugged to a computer, i.e. it’s not standalone
so it’s basically a more open but not standalone version of the Oculus Go. For context the Go is from 2018 and back then was $200 while being standalone. Note also that the Go is rootable, cf developers.meta.com/…/unlocking-oculus-go/
There are also other DIY VR HMDs, e.g. github.com/relativty/Relativty from 2020 which similar limitations. In fact this made so much buzz back then the founder managed to ride the hype and make (sadly) a VC funded startup. I say sadly because the initial project was all open VR and openness but once the money was locked-in… well I let you check.
So… again this is VERY cool to build but please do not consider this anything but a way to learn. If you do want to play with VR with a limited budget consider instead an accountless (meaning no Meta involved) second hand Meta 2 then Alvr or WiVRn (cf lvra.gitlab.io for more).
Note that despite the lack of OpenXR support by relying on github.com/relativty/Relativty#14-software-setup they might support some SteamVR games. That said, again, it’s 6DoF and outdated so which actual games would be fun, not just playable, is a different question.
PS: for those who remember back then Relativty it became Unai then unison.co which according to LinkedIn (so take it via a grain of salt) went from 30 employees a year ago to half of that now <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8ffed8d0-d49a-4ebb-af9a-2f81183d83bc.png"> and maybe more importantly hasn’t delivered anything I’m aware of. In itself that’s no big deal, startups do that, but it’s definitely quite far from the initial openness debut.
MyNameIsIgglePiggle@sh.itjust.works
on 14 Oct 09:10
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Might as well just chuck a phone in a cardboard box
The lack of controllers is the biggest impediment to these “Homemade VR” projects.
You might as well slap your phone in a Cardboard VR and use ALVR, and you’ll be surprised at how convincing it is, but you’ll quickly find there aren’t many VR games worth playing with the standard gamepad.
For now you have to use non open-source software PrivateQuest to pair it. I recommend to factory reset it first but anyway instructions are there, can be a bit finicky but does work.
I’ve read that some are trying to port it to GadgetBridge which would be ideal.
I think it’s good enough for learning and doing something weird but Meta Quest 1 or 2 cost less (just checked 2nd hand local website and saw a few for 100€) and require 0 hardware work while providing 6DoF (leaning just a tad in your cockpit? Huge difference) and higher refresh rate.
Again, it’s amazing to tinker but unless it’s part of a both technical and ethical adventure then I believe there are better options out there already.
Those who want to use vr will buy, sometimes it’s not about destination but about the journey. And this can inspire someone to further improve on design and maybe makes it even more user friendly, cheap and with no strings to shitty corpos.
Sure, that’s literally how I started both comments but I can try to clarify a bit more my point : if you want to “just” use, this isn’t great, but if you enjoy building itself, it might be even better.
FWIW I do both, including professionally, so I definitely get the point of making a headset, or anything really (I even do a bit of woodworking and welding) yourself or building thanks to the previous projects of others. I’m definitely NOT suggesting it shouldn’t be attempted. I’m solely warning people who are solely, or even mostly, interested in a usable object while investing minimum effort in.
TFW you’ve been playing IL Sturmowik II for past 20y with track IR and subsequently opentrack
, and not even Oculus has achieved a similar low latency functional solution yet…
cley_faye@lemmy.world
on 14 Oct 21:13
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SteamVR/Lighthouse tracking is pretty fast and accurate.
Yeah, I’d expect this to be similar latency and accuracy. Lighthouse can do full 6dof tracking at a room scale too, not just sitting head tracking for a seated position like it seems opentrack does
Absolutely, best tracking system out there… but also you need to bolt stuff on the wall. Inside-out tracking meanwhile… well you just open up your backpack, put the HMD on and voila. Different trade offs for different usages.
I wonder how this compares to Mañolo’s HadesVR/PersephoneVR setup… I think they have 6DoF and use lights embedded in golf balls to act as PS Move sensors
It’s more or less two little screens behind fresnel lenses attached to an IMU. It’s really cool, but no golf balls or anything like that. He seems to only use it for a racing rig.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 14 Oct 22:57
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While this is awesome and the tinkerer in me appreciates and respects the effort, a Quest Go/1/2/3 is significantly better than this with far more functionality and would be able to be purchased for the same price, or less, and with zero work or skill required to put together.
Quest 1/2/3/3s can be used without account thanks to PrivateQuest
Quest 3 v78 (not newer OS version) can be rooted via a hack
So yes, by default you are paying with data. In fact IMHO if possible one should not rely on Meta hardware. That being said if you get e.g. a 2nd hand Quest 2 or 3 and use it without an account then you might be providing little to no money to Meta and no data. It’s not trivial but it’s feasible. Arguably it’s even easy for somebody who seriously consider such an endeavor of assembling their own HMD.
PS: Meta has access to the whole device but… they are not owning the OS itself, it’s still an Android device. The OS is very much driven by Google. In fact it’s quite interesting to consider that Meta failed to develop their own OS and that Google is shipping soon AndroidXR.
anotherspinelessdem@lemmy.ml
on 15 Oct 19:06
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Ah, so you make up the difference with your labor
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 15 Oct 21:55
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You know you can make throwaway meta accounts, don’t you? You don’t have to give it your real details and add all your friends.
threaded - newest
I am wondering about the software side. Is it just a glorified monitor for your face, or does it have some kind of internal control/OS like a Quest or other commercial headset?
Looks like it has an inertial sensor to control the view, here’s there relevant bit from the article:
It seems to only have an Arduino as processor, so presumably the former i.e. you need a PC to plug this into. It seems to have highly simplified tracking compared to something like a Quest - a single Inertial Measurement Unit. All enough for sim racing which is this guy’s jam, but I wonder how well the tracking stays calibrated.
The critical thing with these is response time. If it’s even slightly too high (I think 20-30ms is easily too high), some/many people get very motion sick. Getting that time down as low as needed is also not trivial.
With it only being 60 Hz on the controller itself, that’s basically impossible to hit. That’s 16.6 ms already. Then the processing, sending to the PC, and the PC reacting has a budget of just a few ms? Yea, not happening.
I’m assuming he’s really not sensitive to this. As it’s open source now the people who are sensitive can improve it. That’s the beauty of open source after all.
Normal video games can make me motion sick so I can only imagine how bad this might be! Maybe in the future it’ll get better!
I bet I could use it. I can play the VirtualBoy in a moving car. If there’s any kind of way to tie it into MechWarrior, I want to build one.
I’m wondering if I wanted to fly a jet, would I need another sensor for 3 dimensional tracking
It relies on the Relativity VR driver so theoretically similar software support, namely github.com/relativty/Relativty#14-software-setup but mind you beside being 5 years old this is 3DoF, no controller or hand tracking, whereas the Quest is 6DoF, namely you can move around, not just turn your head.
This is so damn cool I want to throw one together just to tinker with it.
This has been the best year for VR as a whole.
am a fan and vr dev… but this hasn’t been the greatest year personally. what’s made it a highlight for you? perhaps another perspective will help me!
Well, for one, some YouTubers made a cheap, open source VR headset. That was pretty neat.
just hope we see deckard this year.
We just might uploadvr.com/valves-next-headset-reportedly-enter…
Linux support has made some decent strides, particularly with the open source monado / wivrn + xrizer stack (steamvr / alvr still have their issues but are getting better).
I’m quite curious to see how quest 3 works with godot & openxr, apparently they have a build you can run on android inside the quest 3 and do vr-dev in vr.
Indeed, I made a video about that but unfortunately in French video.benetou.fr/w/g111LSRGfj6HmNxa91au3q
nay, merci boucoup, my 9th grade french will make due! or the auto translate which is always fun!
Feel free to ask questions but you can also seek to video.benetou.fr/w/g111LSRGfj6HmNxa91au3q?start=3… directly which is the part with the live, in HMD, edition.
tyvm!
As another user said Linux compatibility has been huge the past couple of years.
And PSVR2 has had some amazing games out that have completely changed the way I experience VR. And they also opened up their headset to PC via steam with an external dongle.
Mainly the accessibility has been at an all time high. But the games that have come out lately too are amazing. I can even do cross play multiplayer with many different headsets now which is also super cool.
Overall is that even a deal over a used headset? Even a fully featured non-stripped down one? Like given what features his headset does have, it’s comparable to some pretty old headsets… and it likely does even those bare minimum features more poorly than an older used headset would. Not to mention comfort.
Like a 10 year old Rift CV1 has almost as much resolution at 90hz/fps instead of 60. And while it’s lenses would be relatively terrible now, they were pretty much the best option of their day, and likely still better than whatever this dude sourced. Not to mention their motion to photon was around 12 ms. The absolute best result this guy can hope for is 16.6ms, and that’s only if everything else in the pipeline is faster than the screens refresh rate… maybe it is… but I wouldn’t bet on it personally.
I’m sure it was a fun project though.
No, it’s not a deal. It’s only about learning IMHO and that’s already be great.
In fact it’s such a “bad” deal that I replied a bit in depth. My goal isn’t to bring the project down, heck I’m even envious about being able to do all that, but rather that people curious about VR don’t get confused. This is nearly a decade outdated and there are better open solutions, e.g. Lynx or even Meta Quest 2 without account IMHO.
Huh, this is kinda prefect for me too, only the refresh rate might be an issue.
I wonder if I could buy cheap no-name headset & fit in that arduino chippy.
It’s always cool to see such projects, and I was discussing about the topic just yesterday.
… but please, don’t spend $150 on that. This is limited has it has :
so it’s basically a more open but not standalone version of the Oculus Go. For context the Go is from 2018 and back then was $200 while being standalone. Note also that the Go is rootable, cf developers.meta.com/…/unlocking-oculus-go/
There are also other DIY VR HMDs, e.g. github.com/relativty/Relativty from 2020 which similar limitations. In fact this made so much buzz back then the founder managed to ride the hype and make (sadly) a VC funded startup. I say sadly because the initial project was all open VR and openness but once the money was locked-in… well I let you check.
So… again this is VERY cool to build but please do not consider this anything but a way to learn. If you do want to play with VR with a limited budget consider instead an accountless (meaning no Meta involved) second hand Meta 2 then Alvr or WiVRn (cf lvra.gitlab.io for more).
Note that despite the lack of OpenXR support by relying on github.com/relativty/Relativty#14-software-setup they might support some SteamVR games. That said, again, it’s 6DoF and outdated so which actual games would be fun, not just playable, is a different question.
But can I watch porn
If you go down that path check buttplug.io because the fun does not have to stop with just vision!
This is hilarious
you know when you don’t click the link but its so well named that you probably already know exactly what it is and what features it has?
Believe me it’s even more than you imagine!
The kraken comes.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.zip/api/v3/image_proxy?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbuttplug.io%2Fimages%2Fsquidplug.png">
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/a1902fd5-af07-42e9-8045-665200cc20da.webp">
You can do that with a phone in a cardboard box
PS: for those who remember back then Relativty it became Unai then unison.co which according to LinkedIn (so take it via a grain of salt) went from 30 employees a year ago to half of that now <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8ffed8d0-d49a-4ebb-af9a-2f81183d83bc.png"> and maybe more importantly hasn’t delivered anything I’m aware of. In itself that’s no big deal, startups do that, but it’s definitely quite far from the initial openness debut.
Might as well just chuck a phone in a cardboard box
Have tried, works better than expected IMO.
The reason this reminds you of Relativity is because that’s what it is with modifications.
The lack of controllers is the biggest impediment to these “Homemade VR” projects.
You might as well slap your phone in a Cardboard VR and use ALVR, and you’ll be surprised at how convincing it is, but you’ll quickly find there aren’t many VR games worth playing with the standard gamepad.
Basic headset would be good for sim racing.
How would I use a meta 2 without an account?
Make a throwaway account……
For now you have to use non open-source software PrivateQuest to pair it. I recommend to factory reset it first but anyway instructions are there, can be a bit finicky but does work.
I’ve read that some are trying to port it to GadgetBridge which would be ideal.
Still good enough for driving and flying sims.
I think it’s good enough for learning and doing something weird but Meta Quest 1 or 2 cost less (just checked 2nd hand local website and saw a few for 100€) and require 0 hardware work while providing 6DoF (leaning just a tad in your cockpit? Huge difference) and higher refresh rate.
Again, it’s amazing to tinker but unless it’s part of a both technical and ethical adventure then I believe there are better options out there already.
Those who want to use vr will buy, sometimes it’s not about destination but about the journey. And this can inspire someone to further improve on design and maybe makes it even more user friendly, cheap and with no strings to shitty corpos.
Sure, that’s literally how I started both comments but I can try to clarify a bit more my point : if you want to “just” use, this isn’t great, but if you enjoy building itself, it might be even better.
FWIW I do both, including professionally, so I definitely get the point of making a headset, or anything really (I even do a bit of woodworking and welding) yourself or building thanks to the previous projects of others. I’m definitely NOT suggesting it shouldn’t be attempted. I’m solely warning people who are solely, or even mostly, interested in a usable object while investing minimum effort in.
Oh FFS stop designing things I can and want to build
If only I had a room to dedicate to it :(
Credit where credit is due: github.com/relativty/Relativty
He basically built (and advanced) Relativity’s open source headset.
TFW you’ve been playing IL Sturmowik II for past 20y with track IR and subsequently opentrack , and not even Oculus has achieved a similar low latency functional solution yet…
SteamVR/Lighthouse tracking is pretty fast and accurate.
Yeah, I’d expect this to be similar latency and accuracy. Lighthouse can do full 6dof tracking at a room scale too, not just sitting head tracking for a seated position like it seems opentrack does
Absolutely, best tracking system out there… but also you need to bolt stuff on the wall. Inside-out tracking meanwhile… well you just open up your backpack, put the HMD on and voila. Different trade offs for different usages.
I just set them on shelves, but yeah, it requires a bit of setup and a delimited play area.
That’s Ill 2 Sturmovik.
I wonder how this compares to Mañolo’s HadesVR/PersephoneVR setup… I think they have 6DoF and use lights embedded in golf balls to act as PS Move sensors
It’s more or less two little screens behind fresnel lenses attached to an IMU. It’s really cool, but no golf balls or anything like that. He seems to only use it for a racing rig.
While this is awesome and the tinkerer in me appreciates and respects the effort, a Quest Go/1/2/3 is significantly better than this with far more functionality and would be able to be purchased for the same price, or less, and with zero work or skill required to put together.
But mom, Meta
Because you pay with data. Quest is the first device, where meta has full control over the Operation System, and even beyond.
You are forced to have a meta account to use it, IRCC
You did but not anymore :
So yes, by default you are paying with data. In fact IMHO if possible one should not rely on Meta hardware. That being said if you get e.g. a 2nd hand Quest 2 or 3 and use it without an account then you might be providing little to no money to Meta and no data. It’s not trivial but it’s feasible. Arguably it’s even easy for somebody who seriously consider such an endeavor of assembling their own HMD.
PS: Meta has access to the whole device but… they are not owning the OS itself, it’s still an Android device. The OS is very much driven by Google. In fact it’s quite interesting to consider that Meta failed to develop their own OS and that Google is shipping soon AndroidXR.
Ah, so you make up the difference with your labor
You know you can make throwaway meta accounts, don’t you? You don’t have to give it your real details and add all your friends.