I don’t understand how can critical buisness machines which work perfectly fine be switched to windows 11?
We have a machine at work which is beefy and works as a server and backups for many many years on windows 10. Why the hell should I upgrade my buisness critical system ?? Why would I take my risk breaking stuff. I am sure there are millions of critical systems running gon windows 10 which should not be distribed at any means, what would Microsoft do about them.
jordanlund@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 18:19
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Your business critical system will no longer be supported with security updates which will leave it vulnerable to attack.
I guess, if it’s not connected to any sort of outside network, and has no way of accepting data from media like discs or thumb drives then it’s perfectly safe, but if that’s the case, and it works in isolation, how “business critical” is it?
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 18:36
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You would be amazed in the industrial world. There are tons of large and incredibly expensive special purpose machines that are operated by super antiquated PC architecture computers running geriatric operating systems, sometimes still even DOS or Windows 3.x.
Think industrial CNC mills and lathes, presses, pick-and-place machines, specialty lab testing equipment, electron microscopes, etc.
Process control, i.e. production line automation, is usually driven by dedicated PLCs. But the user interfaces connected to them are almost invariantly some old ruggedized panel mounted PC running Windows. An absurd number of them in my experience are still on 2000 or XP. NT4 is pretty easy to find, too.
Granted often these are not networked, and in cases where they are they’re not connected to the internet, or may even talk to other workstations via RS-485 serial (!) or some other gimcrack method that is unlikely to be a vector for modern malware.
jordanlund@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 19:25
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As long as they aren’t networked, there’s no problem there!
Critically, the people who build these machines don’t typically update drivers to port them to a new OS. You buy a piece of heavy equipment, investing tens, or maybe even a hundred thousand dollars, and there’s an OS it works on, maybe two if you’re lucky. The equipment hopefully works for at least 20 years, and basically no OS is going to maintain that kind of compatibility for that long. Linux might get the closest, but I’ll bet you’re compiling/patching your own kernels before 20 years is up.
This kind of dynamic is unavoidable when equipment vendors sell equipment which has a long usable life (which is good), and don’t invest in software support (which is them being cheap, to an extent), and OSes change enough that these time horizons likely involve compatibility-breaking releases.
Fucking phone systems! That’s what these are, and we have to snap them any time they’re rebooted because sometimes they just shut the bed randomly, but the client doesn’t want to buy a new system…
But, it’s their wallet and they’re willing to pay the “fuck you pay me” legacy surcharge.
Why should the financial sector ever switch away from their amazing COBOL code base? Why should anyone switch away from VGA, works just fine? No need for USB, PS2 etc. work just fine.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 18:29
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What Microsoft probably expects you to do is get your management to buy new computers that support Windows 11 and/or whatever the hell their current server OS is, and in the process give them and their hardware vendor partners a lot of money.
What you can do instead is switch to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC which is what I did at my workplace recently. It’s supported until 2032 with security updates. Not feature updates, but I suspect that business users probably don’t care about those much. In fact, most people would probably treat that as a benefit. It also comes with basically no bloatware (except goddamned Edge), which is surprising. No Copilot, no Cortana, no Recall. None of that shit.
We have a fleet of machines that “can’t” be upgraded to Win11 because of hardware shortcomings, at least without overriding the requirements with Rufus or similar. Unfortunately we also rely on a small but important spread of proprietary Windows-only applications which have no open source or Linux replacements, and at least two of them absolutely will not run in Wine. Believe me, I tried.
The only wrinkle with this is that you cannot upgrade or license swap in place. You have to do a full reinstall, which for us is not a problem because we have a modest number of computers and I have physical access to all of them. None are bricked up behind a wall or anything.
funkajunk@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 18:39
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Their answer would probably be to run Windows Server 2022, which is supported until 2031.
The problem is that Microsoft is ending Win10 support so you won’t be able to get updates and such (especially security updates) for the OS anymore which will ultimately lead to things breaking or being vulnerable anyway, plus if that business-critical software ever gets updated to the point where it also doesn’t support win10 anymore (I’ve run into this in the past with XP/Vista) then you’re going to have to change anyway. But you don’t have to change to win11. Companies and governments all over Europe are switching their mission-critical systems to linux and FOSS, yeah it’s a pain, but it’s going to save you pain down the road.
stealth_cookies@lemmy.ca
on 16 Jun 20:28
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If you are running business critical applications on Windows 10 that is a problem. Windows 10 is only meant for end user machines. Other services should be running on OS’s that are meant for the application such as Windows Server or server versions of Linux distros running LTS kernels.
Not to mention, near every piece of software I’ve been involved with at work has required specific versions of Windows Server and whatever database it uses, if you want to upgrade the software you use, then upgrading the OS is part of the task.
The obvious conclusion is that Windows 10 is not fit for purpose in your business environment and the person in charge of IT procurement dun goofed picking it in the first place.
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 16 Jun 23:54
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For that use Windows 10 IOT LTSC
Passerby6497@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 01:27
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We have a machine at work which is beefy and works as a server and backups for many many years on windows 10. Why the hell should I upgrade my buisness critical system ??
Because you should be using a server grade os instead of janking things together with desktop OS installs that just make everything so much harder (and aren’t supported for as long).
Sorry, I have to clean up installs like this at least once a year when we take on clients from internal IT that just made things work instead of making something that works right, so I’ve got opinions.
I don’t know what kind of software that particular machine runs, but for server and backup Linux appears to be the go to tool. I’m not saying that you have to migrate everything to Linux. I just say that for servers and the like the transition is probably easier than for desktop.
I thought so too, largely on the basis of some very bad experiences with ubuntu-based distributions (they seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for whatever reason), but in frustration I tried one last time to install a linux distro and went with something based on fedora and it has 95% just worked, it’s been great. I haven’t booted up windows in almost 3 weeks, all my games work (battle.net was a bit of a pain to get working), the proprietary windows software I use for work runs great in wine, etc. I’m at the point now where I’m transferring all my files off of NTFS partitions and reformatting them to btrfs and integrating them into the linux filesystem, cause I’m done with windows forever to the greatest possible extent that I can be.
Attacker94@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 20:46
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I am greatful that Ubuntu ended up bringing the Linux desktop into the general publics eye, but at the same time out of all of the popular distro’s today, I firmly believe there is always a better choice than Ubuntu for any user, new or veteran. It’s just a pity that they are the most well known to people who aren’t familiar with Linux while not being good at anything, although basically any Linux distro feels like fresh air when compared to the Microsoft experience.
themadcodger@kbin.earth
on 16 Jun 20:50
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Agreed. New users often either go Ubuntu or Linux Mint because they're well known, but really aren't the best options out there anymore.
Why is that? What’s the problem with ubuntu? I mean ubuntu-based distros seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for some reason, but besides that. I’m pretty happy with nobara tho, and wouldn’t switch back to ubuntu even if I knew it’d work with my GPU.
Attacker94@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 13:27
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You just hit both of my points,
Newer hardware has compatibility issues due to Ubuntu’s slower update cycle
2.ubuntu doesn’t do anything particularly better than any other distro, the marketing pitch normally ends up being “we’re Linux, and we’ve done it a while” because there isn’t any feature that makes it stand out so they advertise on their stability which isn’t that much more pronounced in comparison to a fedora or debian based distro.
What’s the problem with ubuntu?
In general I wouldn’t say it has a problem, it does what it says it will do, it’s just that it’s distinct features are quickly becoming the standard or obsolete.
Fair enough. Personally my hardware isn’t that new; the GPU is 3-4 years old at this point, the rest of the PC is ~5 years old so you would think even the latest LTS which is only a year or two old would support it. shrug
But yeah I’m liking nobara’s rapid update cycle so far, though I haven’t tried to change GPU drivers with it yet, so I suppose I will reserve a tiny amount of judgement until I have to do that. ;)
imsufferableninja@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jun 13:36
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my main gripe with Ubuntu right now is the way they are forcing snaps into my system under the covers. if i wanted to install a snap, i would be using snap install instead of apt install. forcing a snap install when i use apt install is just total fuckery. fortunately i only have to use ubuntu at work; home is fedora and alma
Hm, yeah that is definitely a weird thing to do, I’m using nobara (fedora) and it has the app center for snap and flatpost for flatpaks plus dnf for the package manager.
PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 20:56
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Nvidia Linux drivers are still kinda iffy these days but so are the Windows ones too
It was definitely a Ubuntu thing - Pop, 2 version of Ubuntu, and Mint all failed at various points when dealing with GPU drivers, but I’m using closed-source nvidia drivers on the same GPU in Nobara (Fedora) without issue. Though I guess I haven’t tried updating it yet, but all my hardware accelerated games work as they should.
It's because LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX
ParetoOptimalDev@lemmy.today
on 16 Jun 20:39
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That’s not the flex you think it is.
Your preoccupation with image here hurts you more than it helps you.
sad_detective_man@leminal.space
on 16 Jun 22:15
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Not that I have a strong opinion one way or the other but Linux people’s lack of self awareness or discretion has hurt its spread more than Microsoft has.
Having a teensyweensy bit of occupation with image goes a really long way
ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 20:39
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Putting Bill Gates’ dick in my mouth is far too high of a licensing fee. I’ll just play Oregon Trail on an Apple IIe instead. But no judgment. You live your best life.
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 16 Jun 23:49
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Honestly yes, this entire campaign is absolutely stupid.
lastunusedusername2@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jun 19:57
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It’s because we’ve seen this post 1000 times
toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 23:56
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and yet you persist. why?
(sorry, this is totally a troll)
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 16 Jun 23:53
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Because mass recommending Linux to people with absolutely no nuance whatsoever is exactly why Linux users are seen as obnoxious and annoying. Not only does the website make no attempt to properly explain Linux it doesn’t clearly outline its usecase. Its the very definition of the Linux user stereotype, blasted right in front of your face, reposted everywhere, and with a simple INSTALL LINUX and EVEYONE CAN INSTALL LINUX.
The first paragraphs on endof10.org tell you why you should install Linux followed by telling you how to get in touch with someone who can explain things to you and even install it for you. Most of them do it free of charge. I’m not sure how you can improve on that.
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 17 Jun 13:38
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Because theyre eithet vauge, blatant lies, or not something people care about:
No New Hardware, No Licensing Costs
Most people are willing to buy new hardware, and nobody pays for a Windows key tbh. Even if they did it would be a free upgrade from 10 to 11. Also the terminology is very enterprise focused and objectively some distros (ex REHL) are paid.
Enhanced Privacy
Once again not something people strictly care about. In addition if you use Linux exactly like Windows with Chrome, Whatsapp, Discord and other non privacy respecting apps you’re not improving your privacy by much.
Good For The Planet
The implication that carbon emissions is something an individual can do something about has been objectively disproven. For any meaningful change you need societal change from the top (especially corporations and rich people).
Community & Professional Support
Online Linux forums and chats especially for new people can be extremely overwhelming. Especially when a Windows user comes in and asks why something isnt exactly like Windows. Also once again movements like this is why people dont like the Linux community.
Better User Control
Most new Linux users not only wont use them but especially in KDE software will actively be overwhelmed by the amount of options and menus. Additionally what this critically leaves out is the fact that more advanced customization requires more skill and experience the more advanced it is. There is a clear skill difference from installing a widget in KDE Plasma to compling and installing a custom kernel.
Now lets talk about the things they should have mentioned:
Less commercial software: adobe especially but most professional grade editing software for both video and photo does not support Linux (yes I know Davinchi resolve technically does but the Linux version is so awful you might as well not use it)
Linux is not Windows or MacOS: Linux does its own thing, sometimes this is good sometimes bad sometimes its highly debatable (and Linux users will debate it). Because of that if you expect to use Linux exactly like Windows you’ll get confused and frustrated.
Package managers: Almost every major DE has a graphical package manager frontend, this is a good thing and should be talked about.
Desktop Environments: Show what they look like, KDE Plasma and Gnome. It should be explained their differnces and who they’re made for.
Distros: Explain a few of the most common distros and who they’re made for. Debian is the most stable but gets few updates, OpenSuse tumbleweed is bleeding edge, Fedora gets updates once every few months, Arch is unstable and not reccomended for beginners, Pop_OS is great for gaming (see ProtonDB for compatibility)
Most people are willing to buy new hardware, and nobody pays for a Windows key tbh.
Many people are also not willing to buy new hardware. I have several friends where each PC purchase is a massive hit on their budget that requires other things to be sacrificed. And one does pay for a Windows key every time they buy a Windows PC. SIs who sell PCs with Windows as optional offer the Linux PCs for cheaper since you don’t have to pay the Windows license fee.
Even if they did it would be a free upgrade from 10 to 11.
Depends on the PC, some of them just will not go to 11, in which case you are talking about spending hundreds of dollars to go from Win 10 to Win 11, but $0 to go from Win 10 to Linux.
Enhanced Privacy
Once again not something people strictly care about.
Privacy is exactly what got me and one of my other friends to switch. Many, many people don’t like being spied on. And taking reasonable steps to reduce it is very much so within our control.
The implication that carbon emissions is something an individual can do something about has been objectively disproven.
Not buying something new and using what you have demonstrably helps. There is no world in which throwing away a perfectly good PC just to manufacture and transport another is somehow better for carbon emissions. Microsoft should not be rewarded for creating so much unnecessary ewaste by encouraging people to go out and buy another Windows PC.
You can also just stay on Windows 10 and get 3rd party security updates. That is a legitimate option that for a lot of people is going to be their best choice.
Because the people that would or can switch would already switch after it’s been posted for the 1000th time. It’s not realistic because the vast majority of people simply don’t care. People hate windows updates enough as it is, to most average people this is good news.
For starters I’ve seen this exact post a few times over the past 3 months in this community.
Secondly, the comments go exactly the same in these threads:
“linux can do everything, no faults at all, windows sucks”
“but I use windows for x and y and linux can’t do it”
“how dare you insult linux, you should not be doing x and y, just do it with this app (which is completely inferior)”
Next, windows does everything I want it to do, I disabled and uninstalled everything I didn’t want easily through settings & group policy, and it hasn’t bothered me since.
I imagine the downvotes are backlash against all the people who convince themselves that Linux is the only viable solution regardless of use case or workflow. There are definitely loads of people in the Linux community and the open source community in general who will pick a piece of software and proselytize it with no consideration whatsoever whether it fits someone’s actual needs. Like, personally, I like Linux but there are things I need to do that require me to have Windows. For some people this fact is absolutely unacceptable and they simply won’t hear it.
Voicemeeter and Virtual Audio Cables for separate audio channels with separate volume controls, macro keys, and easily adjustable toggling between outputs (more easily adjustable and less latency than JACK)
Eartrumpet for easy and immediate per-program control over audio channels
FL Studio
Adobe Premiere
MX Ergo drivers that have full functionality including remapping and holding down mouse 4 and mouse 5 and toggleable precision mode with LED indicator
No sudden troubleshooting mid-way through working on projects to break my flow
A Windows testing environment
100% compatibility with every game I own
There may be a few more, but these are the big ones. JACK, at the moment, just isn’t a replacement for Voicemeeter and while there are some DAWs for Linux, they’re not FL and I don’t know if they’re compatible with Guitar Rig. I’ve used OpenShot for video as well, and while it’s not terrible it isn’t really comparable.
I’m sure that Linux is a good fit for many users. Personally, as an operating system alone if it weren’t for these issues, I’d prefer it. I’d love to be able to do what I need to do and also have a plasma, it’s much nicer. But at the moment it isn’t a real option without sacrificing things that I actually need. I also really can’t be dealing with suddenly needing to sort out how to make a finicky program work at the drop of a hat when I’m in the middle of working on a project.
I’ve been dabbling with Linux since the early 00s. I like it and I wish it were a substitute for Windows for my use case, but it isn’t. No amount of people being rude and obtuse in threads will change that. Time might, but it hasn’t yet.
Ah I see. Pipewire has made audio production a lot easier with far fewer latency issues. I know the FL Studio crowd is pretty diehard, but if you’re ever feeling adventurous there’s a lot more in the audio space now. I personally use Reaper to record my guitar through my Audient interface and have no issues. I’m not much of a beats and loops guy though so YMMV.
Does it have separate audio channels and input/output controls with volume sliders and hotkeys? That would still leave a few other issues, but progress is progress and I do like to keep myself aware of the options so that I’ll know when it finally ticks all the boxes.
I’m not sure I understand the question. Pipewire is the audio server, replacing Pulse. It does have frontends that allow routing from different devices, channels, software etc and distributions that are using Pipewire now have interface elements that allow you to control application use of audio devices. I’m not sure I answered your question at all lol.
I use pipewire with Ardour and Neural DSP VSTs (over wine) with zero issues on EndeavourOS. I really hadn’t expected that. Now, I generally just use this stuff to not have to buy many physical pedals so I rarely do recording, but that has worked as well.
You seem to be way more advanced than me in that regard, so I can’t say if it would work for you, but it was so much easier and better than when I tried the same thing years ago. I’d suspect that GuitarRig works as well, though I haven’t tried. I may just do so this weekend, but can’t promise.
photoshop, multiplayer games, excel specific macros, 99% of the accounting programs, drivers wificard soundcards, multimonitor support that doesnt shits itself within 10 seconds…2 years ago i tried mint, ubuntu, manjaro, they all failed.
2 years is a long time. Driver issues are few and far between these days. Multi monitor support has greatly improved as well. I can’t help you with your software requirements if you’re stuck using proprietary programs like Photoshop. I can tell you that as a professional graphic designer and illustrator the alternatives to “industry standard” software are powerful and arguably better (Inkscape) on the Linux side. It does take time and effort to retrain years of shortcuts and workflow experience, but it’s definitely doable.
Maybe one day when you’re feeling adventurous give Linux another shot. I know for a lot of people the ethics of open source vs closed aren’t really important, but it’s still fun to see what else is out there.
(Kinda unrelated side note: Nobody around me is getting that all these apps are STUPID and MAKES YOU THE PRODUCT. Just why are they critisizing without even trying them?)
Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 21:57
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Families exist. I’m the “IT guy” for 3 people using laptops
Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 03:37
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That’s reasonable; I just wouldn’t have called my wife’s laptop my laptop I guess. It was either that or there was probably an interesting story behind it.
LordOfLocksley@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 07:32
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They are all my personal laptops from different parts of my past, that I just never threw away when I upgraded
I end up with all the “broken” laptops my family replaces after they buy new ones.
I’ve got like 9 laptops. Active ones are my Linux one, work one (windows 11) and my wife’s school one (windows 11). We both have win 10 desktops still.
Landless2029@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 08:31
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I’m between living locations and can’t carry my desktop around.
So I grabbed an old laptop and put Linux mint on it. It’s been near perfect. Extremely smooth experience.
It detected my printer and auto installed. I installed steam and played Terraria without issue. Small performance problem but I don’t have a GPU. Even works good with my docking station.
My only complaint is the audio device doesn’t switch automatically when I dock/undock.
I’d recommend making a USB and boot into it for a test drive.
LordOfLocksley@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 11:37
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Awesome, thanks for the insight. I was actually looking at Linux Mint myself. I need around 4Gb on a USB to boot it, correct?
Rufus is great and I still keep a copy around, but I haven’t gone back since I found Ventoy. You just run Ventoy on your stick, and then drag and drop any and all bootable ISOs into it. When you boot it, you get a list of all the ISOs to work with.
The only caveat is that you absolutely have to eject the USB, or else Ventoy probably will corrupt. That’s a small price to pay to have Arch, Mint, Fedora, NixOS, and Win11 all on one OS ISO toolkit drive, plus I always eject my drives as a rule of thumb. Then all I have to do is update them every couple months.
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jun 13:38
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Haven’t booted windows in over a month now. If I want to play pubg or bf1, thats about the only reason I need windows. And I do a lot of gaming, just not aaa multi-player. But I am enjoying computing again just like when I was younger and computers were interesting and fun and not corpo ad stations on your machine.
Marthirial@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 14:41
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I dual booth Win11 and Fedora Desk 42. It feels gross starting windows but there are 2, TWO! Apps that don’t have Linux version that I still need.
When Linux wizards figure out a way to use win apps without the intimidating complexity of installing Wine or virtualization, more people will switch.
I would give that a shot. The full guide is install ‘wine’ and ‘winetricks’ the same way you install any other software you use. Then in winetricks, select ‘default prefix’, then ‘run arbitrary executable’, and point it to your .exe installer. After that, you just open the program like any other program on your system.
You generally don’t need to do more than that and might let you forgo ever dual booting again.
sixty@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jun 19:56
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I recently jumped on pure Mint after buying a new desktop PC with no OS pre-installed. Within a week I was dual booting it on my laptop too. It’s so much faster and efficient. Battery feels like it lasts 50% longer.
And the control is amazing.
I was very skeptical of Linux, as I had a shitty experience previously with OpenSUSE where nothing worked. Mint is the way to go tho, been so smooth.
Linux Mint would like a word. Best choice tech wise I ever made. Shit just works and it’s dead simple, polished, easy to learn and read programs. Fuck Windows. I will never go back. Make the jump!
LordOfLocksley@lemmy.world
on 18 Jun 09:08
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That’s good to know. Mint was going to be my distro of choice
Teppichbrand@feddit.org
on 16 Jun 20:52
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What is the highest spec pc I am likely to find for sale when people realise it cant go to windows 11?
RobotZap10000@feddit.nl
on 16 Jun 21:57
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TMP 2.0 released in October 2014, so I don’t think that you can find particularly powerful systems up for grabs.
unwillingsomnambulist@midwest.social
on 16 Jun 22:04
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Unless the requirements have changed, you’re looking at 2016-2017 era. Intel 7000-series, AMD Ryzen 1000-series. Newer may be available if there’s no TPM installed.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 17 Jun 09:27
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I had a look and it looks like you will not get anything special. The cutoff is around 2015. So for example Lenovo T440s will support Win11 but T440p will not. Looking at backmarket T440s is cheaper than T440p. So looks like you will only be able to get something ancient and the price will be pretty standard.
Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 16 Jun 21:41
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I’ve had windows update disabled for years so the fact that it’s “end of life” don’t mean shit to me. It’ll keep chugging along for years more.
That said, I installed Mint a week ago and love it!
EOL means no more security updates, which means attack vectors don’t get patched.
If you keep using a Windows installation (or any OS for that matter) that isn’t patched regularly you are very likely to be victim to some malicious actor eventually. It’s not manual hacking anymore, it’s bots scraping the whole internet exploiting known vulnerabilities completely automated.
The risk is much lower if you’re in a home network with NAT, where your PCs IP is not publicly reachable, but if you communicate with any webservices you’re still vulnerable.
As example. If you nowadays put a Windows XP machine live on the internet with a public IP, it will be compromised within minutes.
So yeah. Good call switching to Mint, but please don’t use unpatched Windows.
aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 17 Jun 06:45
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I saw a YT video about XP being compromised. It was literally about 2-3 minutes, and it had been attacked.
If you’re behind a conventional router they still do NAT afaik.
Per default your IPv6 address should be an internal one if it’s enabled.
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 17:11
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My third world country gives us normal IPv6 addresses that can be accessed from the web if you configure the router xd
sad_detective_man@leminal.space
on 16 Jun 22:09
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I just rage-downgraded back to 10 a couple days ago. is there any reason why I shouldn’t just keep using it after this year? are we ever going to see a risk for zero day exploits for it like happened for XP after it depreciated?
I’ve been migrating some of my clients (I do on site support for SMBs) to LTSC 2019, which gets updates until 2029.
An added benefit is that it gets a lot less updates, essentially security updates, and comes with a lot less crap preinstalled.
If one were to run Win10 Enterprise LTSC IoT, “activated”… would it continue to automatically receive updates?
sad_detective_man@leminal.space
on 17 Jun 13:52
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I have to assume so since other versions that have been “activated” the same way do. Real big shout out to you-know-who, btw. They make Microsoft software viable at all.
Windows 10 doesn’t actually need to be activated to receive security updates. You’ll just deal with an annoying watermark in the bottom right all the time. IoT may be different, though.
Regardless, I recommend taking a look at this project:
massgrave.dev
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org
on 17 Jun 03:25
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Just look up windows related cves. There’s like 10 new exploits almost every month or so. Sure, not all of them will be super critical, but as time goes on they will stack up. I would not want to risk it, but you do you.
I wish I could make parts in FreeCAD anywhere close to as good as I can in Fusion 360… I REALLY miss it since the move to Linux. I’m not anywhere near as excited about my 3D printer anymore since designing parts is a slog and the end result I am generally un-proud of. :( I feel like my only option (which sucks) is buy a second GPU for pass through and install windows 10 in a VM that only touches the internet once every 2 weeks to keep Fusion happy.
Professor_Piddles@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jun 01:26
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It’s possible to pass thru a single GPU. I followed this guide on my Fedora desktop
It is possible, but I have problems with it. Number one, my current GPU is one affected by the AMD reset bug, so it would take even more tinkering than that tutorial to get working. Number two, I’d prefer to not have to choose between windows or linux having the GPU - having to shut down the VM to get back to my normal desktop and programs is not ideal.
Also, I just wish FreeCAD made more sense to me, as I don’t trust Autodesk long-term to not take away the “free for personal use” license. They’ve already taken several anti-consumer steps already. :(
neidu3@sh.itjust.works
on 16 Jun 22:29
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MangioneDontMiss@lemmy.ca
on 16 Jun 22:42
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wishful thinking. i mean i get where the sentiment is coming from, but normal users are going to have a lot of problems if they make that switch. especially if they need particular types of software.
slumberlust@lemmy.world
on 16 Jun 23:51
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If you find yourself not wanting to switch, there are third party options for patching. I’m going to try zero patch, but I have no experience with them to date.
SereneSadie@lemmy.myserv.one
on 17 Jun 00:54
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Call me when Libre doesn’t suck/feel like it’s stuck in 2003.
I won’t hold my breath.
RadioFreeArabia@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 01:46
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If you don’t like it, try OnlyOffice.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org
on 17 Jun 03:17
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Call me when Windows doesn’t suck and it’s not getting worse year by year. I will laugh every time they add more ads and more tracking.
stevedice@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jun 03:18
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The end of windows 10 support is approaching. Windows 10 will go on for a while yet.
redwattlebird@lemmings.world
on 17 Jun 20:10
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Yeah but my W10 shoved a giant full screen ad telling me to get rid of my PC and get a new one with W11 twice. Support might be ending but if it constantly nags you to upgrade, that’s just BS.
stevedice@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jun 03:20
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Can’t wait for the “The end of Windows 11 is approaching…” article in a few years. Keep me posted.
Now with AI! So Windows can use your processing power to record and analyze every use of your computer, and report back useful findings to MS. What data is sent back? Who knows? You certainly won’t be told what ‘core telemetry’ is required at any point in time.
You certainly won’t be told what ‘core telemetry’ is required at any point in time.
Except the Diagnostics Data Viewer has been a thing for a long time and tells you exactly what data is sent back as telemetry. Now if you don’t believe it that another topic.
at least I haven’t seen anyone prove it sends all data of your machine
Have you ever looked at what’s in that thing? It’s not exactly transparent. There’s heap of data that’s is not clearly labelled or easily readable. Also, again, what data is sent can changes from update to update - without any any control from the owner of the computer; and without so much as a notification or even an update log.
GF recently wanted to buy Ms office because she had a nice looking CV template for it that would not work well in LibreOffice. So I spent some hours making a good one without Ms crap, just so they would not get anymore money.
I just rebuilt mine and can confirm that most of those resume template builders utilize a lot of word doc “hacks” to format everything, and loading and LibreOffice breaks it.
Even in Word, some of those templates behaves weirdly.
hzl@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 17 Jun 07:44
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Also 0patch, which will continue to provide security patches for Windows 10 indefinitely.
r_deckard@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 08:24
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LOL no. There are many good reasons choose Linux on the desktop/laptop, but the so-called Win10 apocalypse isn’t in the top 10.
tarknassus@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 09:05
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Whilst that’s true, it’s a good opportunity to push Linux as a potential alternative in a few different ways - reduction of e-waste, free and private oriented alternative, simple (in some situations/distro) for certain basic users, or even someone who wants to get a little more technical. It’s good to promote the idea that there is more to computers than a monolithic monopoly called Microsoft.
Two of my friends switched recently precisely because Win 10 was going end of life. ‘I have to change the OS anyway’ was the final motivator.
MyNameIsIgglePiggle@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jun 08:38
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I’ve been a full time dev since 2012 and needed a Mac, I had barely used windows over that time but beforehand ran a PC service business.
Anyway, Ive been using Linux as a daily driver for the past 6 months for reasons.
… The other day I got a new cheap laptop I needed to setup for run a single application.
Holy fuck what a shitshow.
It took me 2 hours just to get to the desktop. Shit didn’t work, bullshit login screens, ads everywhere.
It was a massive pile of dog shit.
After battling to get the system setup for the rest of the day I gave up, chucked Fedora Kinoite On it… Took 30 minutes from creating boot media to getting a desktop going, chucked the app I needed to run in a Flatpack, chucked it on a USB, and it was up and running.
People here so full of shit. I just reimaged my lenovo t570 with windows 11 took less then 10mins to install. Another 5 to remove all the bs built in software like solitaire Cortana etc and then another 10-15 to apply all windows updates. Bam done.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 13:27
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You can even skip step 2 by using one of the IoT editions (either Win10 or Win11) which come minus the prepackaged bloatware.
Microsoft is mostly interested in making everything bullshit for home users. If you convince them you’re an enterprise customer, preferably by running up the old Jolly Roger, suddenly your life is a lot easier.
Eyedust@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Jun 13:33
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Takes a lot more to fully deshittify it, though. I’ve been down that road. So much registry diving, so many third party apps, strongarming uninstallations of bloatware through brute force, and just all around weeks of work.
When the screenshot shit was announced the first time, I just got tired of looking for workarounds to disable or remove Microsoft’s active attempts of policing, spying, and triple-dip profiting off it’s paying customers.
Install the IoT version, that comes without any of the bloat and works just fine. Not even the Microsoft store is bundled in.
Eyedust@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Jun 14:00
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I have heard about the IoT version. I’d have to look more into it, but I doubt I’m going back now that I’ve learned so much about Linux. I can troubleshoot most of Arch without touching the docs or asking online now, so it really defeats the purpose of switching back.
I also enjoy putting in a little effort to get things working. That’s the thing about Linux. Most people that daily drive it get a dopamine release from tinkering with it and fixing things, and I’m one of those people.
I know there has been a big “its for everyone” push these days, but its really not. So I’m glad the IoT version exists for those that want or need it.
Yeah Linux is great, no doubt. I’ve been using Xubuntu since forever, never really touched Arch, but fundamentally if you know your way around one system, you’ll manage another.
Still, there are a bunch of applications that I must run under Windows, so it’s good to have the no frills version available for that.
snowfalldreamland@lemmy.ml
on 17 Jun 15:02
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Where does one purchase a single license for windows 10 iot lts? Isn’t that only for volume purchases by large enterprises?
Yeah, I’m not sure why anybody is mentioning Windows IoT. When you lookup where to buy this, Microsoft themselves tell you to call or email a salesman; it’s an enterprise-only thing. Recommending this for individuals is misguided.
MyNameIsIgglePiggle@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Jun 04:04
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Yeah, sure. But I don’t run a shop anymore and just picked up an off the shelf machine from a retailer.
Turned it on, connected it to wifi, then it took forever to try and update itself, which failed, required another reboot, then made me sign in, which also failed, needed a reboot
I dont want a fucking ms account, I don’t want to wait for every update, just ask my name and take me to the desktop
Sounds like a personal skill issue. Especially if you bought some crappy off the shelf laptop.
Also you dont need any of that to use windows so again pushing false narrative since you can use windows with an offline account perfectly fine. Since I use mine for school and dont sign into Microsoft.
MyNameIsIgglePiggle@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Jun 04:07
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Sorry answered it elsewhere, yep windows 11.
The forced update took forever and failed and then it also fucked out with the Microsoft account. It was legit 2 hours from boot to seeing a desktop. I wanted to skip the updates and the Microsoft account.
The start menu is full of ads for software I don’t want. If I buy software off you, stop trying to upsell me.
squaresinger@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 08:46
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It’s not all quite as rosy.
Yes, Linux is much more capable now than it was 10 years ago and it’s much more capable of being used as a main system. I myself have been using Linux as my main system for a few years now.
But it’s also a fact that a lot of stuff might not work (even if it works for someone else) and that some things are still more difficult than they should be.
For example, on my laptop cannot wake from sleep since kernel 6.11. I have manually sourced a 6.10 from an older version of my distro and keep holding it back, so that I can use my laptop as a laptop. For someone without technical skill, this would mean that their laptop just can’t sleep any more. Hibernate also doesn’t work.
Another example is that LibreOffice still makes a lot of formatting mistakes when it has to open word documents. And sure, everyone could just switch to odf, but it’s not quite as easy to make everyone else switch to odf. It makes it really hard to use LibreOffice in any kind of professional environment. Wouldn’t want to make a powerpoint presentation that then looks like shit when it’s played on a different PC.
Lastly, Nvidia sucks, but it’s also close to the only option for laptops with dGPUs. When I look for laptops with dGPUs available in my area on a price comparison platform, I find 760 laptops with Nvidia GPUs and only 3 with AMD, all of which are priced at least €500 more than comparable Nvidia devices. So if you want to go for a gaming laptop, Nvidia is pretty much the only option, and under Linux it really sucks. Steam games generally work ok for me, but trying to use Heroic Launcher to play anything from my gigantic library of free Epic/Amazon/GoG games, about 10% of the games I tried actually work. And even with those that work, my laptop sometimes just decides that a slide show with 3 FPS is good enough. That stays even after reboots and resets, and after a few days it returns to normal. Only to go back to slideshow mode a few days later.
If you just use your laptop to run a browser, I can recommend Linux 100%.
If you want to do anything else and don’t have any technical skills and/or don’t want to spend hours fixing things that should just work, I can’t fully recommend it.
BingoBongoBang@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 09:21
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I am a developer and Linux is my native environment in production systems. I wanted to use Linux on my laptop but sleeping / waking up never worked well enough. It could not switch from integrated video card to a discrete one ending up always using the discrete one which drained the battery in 30 minutes. All in all, it was usable but the details didn’t work so I gave up. That was years ago and eversince no customer really allows Linux…
Sleep/hibernate has been a pretty big problem for a while. As for the gpu, have you checked out NixOS? There’s ways to enforce your integrated card to handle everything and change states for certain apps to the discreet card.
It takes a bit to learn, but nixlang is pretty simple. I’ve heard it referred to as “JSON with functions”. It also has the largest package repository of any OS and is atomic, so its hard as hell to break. You can even make separate, containerized dev environments with flakes.
bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Jun 16:53
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No, no its not. I get it lemmy has a hard on for Linux and libreoffice. But unfortunately its just not gonna happen windows is king. If you like or not its the main dog on the market and enterprises are not going to switch.
With a couple of governments making the switch I honestly think that things are changing to some degree. Will windows die and be forgotten by everyone overnight? Of course not. But I think there’s a real chance their piece of the pie will start to shrink noticeably. Chrome OS is dominating in schools for a few years now and Microsoft is seemingly trying hard to alienate the current windows users.
What the hell are you on about. This is not a “everyone or no one” thing. You can consider it. I have, I switched. I still use mac at work but I absolutely can switch at the homefront. Some companies use Linux, most use Windows. And they absolutely can consider switching.
Microsoft already lost enterprise servers to Linux, and has lost significant ground over the years in consumer PCs to ChromeOS, MacOS, and Linux. Hell, the top PC gaming handheld is a Linux offering. That was an unheard of idea just five years ago.
While I agree that business laptops will continue to be dominated by Windows for awhile, the market shifts we see everywhere have downstream effects on business laptops too. When you find yourself having to train more and more people on how to use Windows than you did in the past, the value argument for Windows on your employee’s laptops quickly comes into question.
LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Jun 13:47
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I haven’t used Windows at work in years for anything, not for cloud hosting, not for on-prem, not for employee machines etc etc. until the cost-cutters came in and forced Teams and other Microsoft crap to squeeze the market during inflation. The company is just waiting to be killed off now.
I’d actually argue enterprise is more likely for people to switch, there’s a lot of Linux sysadmins out there, and there’s a lot of Linux in enterprise environments, and of course especially servers.
Unless you have specific requirements for specific software that runs only on Windows, getting away from Microsoft can be a pretty tempting prospect. Even if there are people who fear change and the idea of change like the plague.
I think at this point Android is the king of operating systems in terms of what the majority of consumer devices run. Perhaps the path forward is people plugging their phone into a dock and being presented with a more productive interface.
I got a cheap mini pc. It had W11 on it which I promptly broke (I think it was when it insisted on me putting in a PIN but I closed the window). It also ran at 100% for no reason trying to do updates, but then refused to do any updates.
So I put the latest Ubuntu Linux on it. Seems OK, but I can’t get anything to recognise the video codex stuff in the N150 CPU. It seems to know it’s there, but Firefox and MPV won’t use it…
Yeah, tried all that, and not having much luck in Firefox and MPV. VLC fine. Replied to the other post, and it might be Snap blocking it. I dunno though, because I know basically fuck all about snap other than a lot of Linux people don’t like it.
I have heard nothing good about snaps and Canonical pushing them is a big reason you don’t see people recommending Ubuntu, and instead recommending things like Mint (me included).
Yeah, I removed Snap mpv and reinstalled with apt.
Lo and behold, it works perfectly all of a sudden.
Firefox looks like more effort, and apt will install the snap version. Even if you uninstall snap. Fun. If I could enable what is missing I’d be OK, but I’ve no idea what it is…
You need to install the codecs, there’s a way to do it on ubuntu, just google search it (and there’s an option during installation to do it too). The N150 cpu and its integrated gpu is not a problem for your codec problem, it’s a matter of installing the right software.
Yeah, I thought I’d ticked something similar during setup, but maybe it wasn’t for that. I installed them and it hasn’t really changed anything in either mpv or Firefox.
The compositing in Firefox is webrender (software) and appears to be using llvmpipe as the GPU. There’s a 2nd “GPU” listed, but doesn’t seem to use it All the codecs say hardware is disabled…
Installed VLC and that seems to use the hardware renderer. MPV and Firefox are both installed with Snap. I’m seeing a pattern that might not be there, but I’m already hating Snap. This is day two of my rebooted Linux experience…
Yeah, snaps won’t be able to access the “external” codecs (outside their jail). So either install the official firefox package from the firefox site, or chrome.
RedditIsDeddit@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 19:35
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The big thing to consider is what software do you really NEED, what can change, and what can you do without. Then the change is easier.
Then there’s the learning curve of new software. Wheee
For a lot of people that say of thinking doesn’t work, they explicitly don’t want to/wont go without, people enjoy luxury and convenience and aren’t going to skate by on only things they strictly need
CommanderShepard@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 19:57
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OK, really good article and I like Libreoffice (although I prefer Only office) and Linux. I browse on it, game, watch videos, do pretty much everything. I am also a technical person, who can create a VM in 10 mins, add a required boot parameter, etc.
Now. I want to send this article to my colleague/friend who’s not technical at all. In the blog post I read
Start by testing Linux and LibreOffice on a second partition of your PC (for individuals)
“Second partition” literally means nothing to most people. I know: just learn, just read. But most people will not bother, or they will simply not understand the tutorials. That’s the unfortunate reality.
I think Linux and Libreoffice can become mainstream if a regular Joe/Jane can buy a laptop from Walmart with a distro and office apps pre-installed and use them like Microsoft Office. Before that time all this Linux and FLOSS stuff is limited to technical, or at least curious people willing to put some effort.
P.S. My relatives are on Linux and Onlyoffice, because I installed it for them. And it’s so much easier and more rare for me to manage and troubleshoot than Windows. But I cannot see them installing it by themselves.
FearMeAndDecay@literature.cafe
on 18 Jun 14:29
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Yeah I’ve been considering switching to Linux but I’m not a tech person. I know enough to play some games and install some Minecraft mods and that’s it. Since I was thinking about getting a new lightweight laptop I was gonna get one with Linux instead of windows to give it a try but every time I found one that said Linux I’d look at the specs and it says the operating system is actually windows. I’d be willing to learn how to get Linux myself but I’m worried about ruining my computer because I don’t understand even half of the technical stuff. If anyone has any up to date very beginner friendly guides, I’d appreciate the recommendation
CommanderShepard@lemmy.world
on 18 Jun 15:09
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If you are willing to learn, then you can check Linux laptops from Framework, Tuxedo and Entroware. Linux preinstalled, and hardware is compatible.
FearMeAndDecay@literature.cafe
on 18 Jun 15:24
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Thanks! I’ll check those out!
damnedfurry@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 20:29
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HalifaxJones@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 20:34
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Im seeing these posts twice a day at this point. So someone like myself who is totally ignorant on Linux, I have some questions if anyone can lend advice?
I’ve been on PC windows for over twenty years now. And I use it mostly for video software like davinci resolve. Adobe software workflow. Unreal engine. I use clients harddrives and often times my own for working off of. And often times will send those harddrives to other people and their computers to finish the work. I also occasional play games on steam and Xbox App.
With that said, is it even possible for me to switch over to Linux and keep using all the same software and workflow I have for high end video production workflow?
Haha ya I assumed those things. I have a Mac that I use as well. But typically prefer a PC when worki by from home :/
EarlGrey@discuss.tchncs.de
on 18 Jun 06:31
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Davinci? Yup
Adobe? Not even remotely.
Unreal…yes? I’m pretty sure th development tools still run on Linux at least.
Crossplatform work? As long as it’s in the same format from the same application, you should be fine. Just format the drive in something Windows can understand.
Steam? Works flawlessly as do most games now. You will need to change one option in settings, because Steam will by default only show games that are verified by valve to work (most games do though). Your biggest hurdle will be the developers that specifically block Linux.
Non-Steam games? You’ll need to do some work, but you can get them running just as well as steam games
While I’m pretty sure you’re correct on majority of cases, there’s still some stuff, like non-steam games, which just won’t work no matter what you do. So, on paper these things work but your mileage may vary.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 18 Jun 14:38
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It doesn’t have to be one or the other. You can do most of your work in linux and boot windows as a ‘secondary’ OS for stuff like adobe? I do this, and share NTFS SSDs/hard drives between them.
You are hitting weak points of linux though. I do all media work on linux (a lot through vapoursynth or ‘lower level’ frameworks than resolve I suppose), but TBH do most of my gaming on Windows, not just for convenience but for performance reasons too.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
on 17 Jun 20:56
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these articles offer ms office alternatives acting like most people write their shopping lists in excel or something. i remember my friend asking for a cheap key for office, and i asked him when was the last time he opened a file in office. after a few seconds of waiting he told me that he opened up an rtf manual for an ancient tomb raider game…told him that almost anything can open an rtf. he lives an officeless life since.
threaded - newest
I don’t understand how can critical buisness machines which work perfectly fine be switched to windows 11?
We have a machine at work which is beefy and works as a server and backups for many many years on windows 10. Why the hell should I upgrade my buisness critical system ?? Why would I take my risk breaking stuff. I am sure there are millions of critical systems running gon windows 10 which should not be distribed at any means, what would Microsoft do about them.
Your business critical system will no longer be supported with security updates which will leave it vulnerable to attack.
I guess, if it’s not connected to any sort of outside network, and has no way of accepting data from media like discs or thumb drives then it’s perfectly safe, but if that’s the case, and it works in isolation, how “business critical” is it?
You would be amazed in the industrial world. There are tons of large and incredibly expensive special purpose machines that are operated by super antiquated PC architecture computers running geriatric operating systems, sometimes still even DOS or Windows 3.x.
Think industrial CNC mills and lathes, presses, pick-and-place machines, specialty lab testing equipment, electron microscopes, etc.
Process control, i.e. production line automation, is usually driven by dedicated PLCs. But the user interfaces connected to them are almost invariantly some old ruggedized panel mounted PC running Windows. An absurd number of them in my experience are still on 2000 or XP. NT4 is pretty easy to find, too.
Granted often these are not networked, and in cases where they are they’re not connected to the internet, or may even talk to other workstations via RS-485 serial (!) or some other gimcrack method that is unlikely to be a vector for modern malware.
As long as they aren’t networked, there’s no problem there!
Critically, the people who build these machines don’t typically update drivers to port them to a new OS. You buy a piece of heavy equipment, investing tens, or maybe even a hundred thousand dollars, and there’s an OS it works on, maybe two if you’re lucky. The equipment hopefully works for at least 20 years, and basically no OS is going to maintain that kind of compatibility for that long. Linux might get the closest, but I’ll bet you’re compiling/patching your own kernels before 20 years is up.
This kind of dynamic is unavoidable when equipment vendors sell equipment which has a long usable life (which is good), and don’t invest in software support (which is them being cheap, to an extent), and OSes change enough that these time horizons likely involve compatibility-breaking releases.
Hahahahahaha, I still periodically see win2k/2k3 on the network at some clients, with SMBv1 enabled across the domain to make the CISO’s eye twitch
back in 2017, the company I worked at had a win 2K server. Crazy shit. It was for a critical system (ran the phone system)
Fucking phone systems! That’s what these are, and we have to snap them any time they’re rebooted because sometimes they just shut the bed randomly, but the client doesn’t want to buy a new system…
But, it’s their wallet and they’re willing to pay the “fuck you pay me” legacy surcharge.
Why should the financial sector ever switch away from their amazing COBOL code base? Why should anyone switch away from VGA, works just fine? No need for USB, PS2 etc. work just fine.
What Microsoft probably expects you to do is get your management to buy new computers that support Windows 11 and/or whatever the hell their current server OS is, and in the process give them and their hardware vendor partners a lot of money.
What you can do instead is switch to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC which is what I did at my workplace recently. It’s supported until 2032 with security updates. Not feature updates, but I suspect that business users probably don’t care about those much. In fact, most people would probably treat that as a benefit. It also comes with basically no bloatware (except goddamned Edge), which is surprising. No Copilot, no Cortana, no Recall. None of that shit.
We have a fleet of machines that “can’t” be upgraded to Win11 because of hardware shortcomings, at least without overriding the requirements with Rufus or similar. Unfortunately we also rely on a small but important spread of proprietary Windows-only applications which have no open source or Linux replacements, and at least two of them absolutely will not run in Wine. Believe me, I tried.
The only wrinkle with this is that you cannot upgrade or license swap in place. You have to do a full reinstall, which for us is not a problem because we have a modest number of computers and I have physical access to all of them. None are bricked up behind a wall or anything.
Their answer would probably be to run Windows Server 2022, which is supported until 2031.
Because either way you’re taking a risk.
Security flaws and aging hardware are two obvious problems.
I’d very much question why you’d use windows 10 over something better supported— maybe not Linux but at least Windows Server OS.
The problem is that Microsoft is ending Win10 support so you won’t be able to get updates and such (especially security updates) for the OS anymore which will ultimately lead to things breaking or being vulnerable anyway, plus if that business-critical software ever gets updated to the point where it also doesn’t support win10 anymore (I’ve run into this in the past with XP/Vista) then you’re going to have to change anyway. But you don’t have to change to win11. Companies and governments all over Europe are switching their mission-critical systems to linux and FOSS, yeah it’s a pain, but it’s going to save you pain down the road.
If you are running business critical applications on Windows 10 that is a problem. Windows 10 is only meant for end user machines. Other services should be running on OS’s that are meant for the application such as Windows Server or server versions of Linux distros running LTS kernels.
Not to mention, near every piece of software I’ve been involved with at work has required specific versions of Windows Server and whatever database it uses, if you want to upgrade the software you use, then upgrading the OS is part of the task.
The obvious conclusion is that Windows 10 is not fit for purpose in your business environment and the person in charge of IT procurement dun goofed picking it in the first place.
For that use Windows 10 IOT LTSC
Because you should be using a server grade os instead of janking things together with desktop OS installs that just make everything so much harder (and aren’t supported for as long).
Sorry, I have to clean up installs like this at least once a year when we take on clients from internal IT that just made things work instead of making something that works right, so I’ve got opinions.
I don’t know what kind of software that particular machine runs, but for server and backup Linux appears to be the go to tool. I’m not saying that you have to migrate everything to Linux. I just say that for servers and the like the transition is probably easier than for desktop.
I always find it odd that posts like this get any downvotes at all. Like, are people really that in love with Windows and or Microsoft?
It’s getting downvoted because it’s not realistic.
I thought so too, largely on the basis of some very bad experiences with ubuntu-based distributions (they seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for whatever reason), but in frustration I tried one last time to install a linux distro and went with something based on fedora and it has 95% just worked, it’s been great. I haven’t booted up windows in almost 3 weeks, all my games work (battle.net was a bit of a pain to get working), the proprietary windows software I use for work runs great in wine, etc. I’m at the point now where I’m transferring all my files off of NTFS partitions and reformatting them to btrfs and integrating them into the linux filesystem, cause I’m done with windows forever to the greatest possible extent that I can be.
I am greatful that Ubuntu ended up bringing the Linux desktop into the general publics eye, but at the same time out of all of the popular distro’s today, I firmly believe there is always a better choice than Ubuntu for any user, new or veteran. It’s just a pity that they are the most well known to people who aren’t familiar with Linux while not being good at anything, although basically any Linux distro feels like fresh air when compared to the Microsoft experience.
Agreed. New users often either go Ubuntu or Linux Mint because they're well known, but really aren't the best options out there anymore.
Why is that? What’s the problem with ubuntu? I mean ubuntu-based distros seem to hate my bog-standard RTX3060 GPU for some reason, but besides that. I’m pretty happy with nobara tho, and wouldn’t switch back to ubuntu even if I knew it’d work with my GPU.
You just hit both of my points,
2.ubuntu doesn’t do anything particularly better than any other distro, the marketing pitch normally ends up being “we’re Linux, and we’ve done it a while” because there isn’t any feature that makes it stand out so they advertise on their stability which isn’t that much more pronounced in comparison to a fedora or debian based distro.
In general I wouldn’t say it has a problem, it does what it says it will do, it’s just that it’s distinct features are quickly becoming the standard or obsolete.
Fair enough. Personally my hardware isn’t that new; the GPU is 3-4 years old at this point, the rest of the PC is ~5 years old so you would think even the latest LTS which is only a year or two old would support it. shrug
But yeah I’m liking nobara’s rapid update cycle so far, though I haven’t tried to change GPU drivers with it yet, so I suppose I will reserve a tiny amount of judgement until I have to do that. ;)
my main gripe with Ubuntu right now is the way they are forcing snaps into my system under the covers. if i wanted to install a snap, i would be using
snap installinstead ofapt install. forcing a snap install when i use apt install is just total fuckery. fortunately i only have to use ubuntu at work; home is fedora and almaHm, yeah that is definitely a weird thing to do, I’m using nobara (fedora) and it has the app center for snap and flatpost for flatpaks plus dnf for the package manager.
Nvidia Linux drivers are still kinda iffy these days but so are the Windows ones too
It was definitely a Ubuntu thing - Pop, 2 version of Ubuntu, and Mint all failed at various points when dealing with GPU drivers, but I’m using closed-source nvidia drivers on the same GPU in Nobara (Fedora) without issue. Though I guess I haven’t tried updating it yet, but all my hardware accelerated games work as they should.
It's because LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX LINUX
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4dfc40c7-5f12-47d7-a429-8d0048f61193.gif">
GNU! GNU!
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That’s not the flex you think it is.
Your preoccupation with image here hurts you more than it helps you.
Not that I have a strong opinion one way or the other but Linux people’s lack of self awareness or discretion has hurt its spread more than Microsoft has.
Having a teensyweensy bit of occupation with image goes a really long way
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Putting Bill Gates’ dick in my mouth is far too high of a licensing fee. I’ll just play Oregon Trail on an Apple IIe instead. But no judgment. You live your best life.
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Perhaps if you ran Linux you’d be less crankyyyyy
later edit : I hope this message was interpreted for the tongue in cheek that it was
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Honestly yes, this entire campaign is absolutely stupid.
It’s because we’ve seen this post 1000 times
and yet you persist. why?
(sorry, this is totally a troll)
Because mass recommending Linux to people with absolutely no nuance whatsoever is exactly why Linux users are seen as obnoxious and annoying. Not only does the website make no attempt to properly explain Linux it doesn’t clearly outline its usecase. Its the very definition of the Linux user stereotype, blasted right in front of your face, reposted everywhere, and with a simple INSTALL LINUX and EVEYONE CAN INSTALL LINUX.
The first paragraphs on endof10.org tell you why you should install Linux followed by telling you how to get in touch with someone who can explain things to you and even install it for you. Most of them do it free of charge. I’m not sure how you can improve on that.
Because theyre eithet vauge, blatant lies, or not something people care about:
Most people are willing to buy new hardware, and nobody pays for a Windows key tbh. Even if they did it would be a free upgrade from 10 to 11. Also the terminology is very enterprise focused and objectively some distros (ex REHL) are paid.
Once again not something people strictly care about. In addition if you use Linux exactly like Windows with Chrome, Whatsapp, Discord and other non privacy respecting apps you’re not improving your privacy by much.
The implication that carbon emissions is something an individual can do something about has been objectively disproven. For any meaningful change you need societal change from the top (especially corporations and rich people).
Online Linux forums and chats especially for new people can be extremely overwhelming. Especially when a Windows user comes in and asks why something isnt exactly like Windows. Also once again movements like this is why people dont like the Linux community.
Most new Linux users not only wont use them but especially in KDE software will actively be overwhelmed by the amount of options and menus. Additionally what this critically leaves out is the fact that more advanced customization requires more skill and experience the more advanced it is. There is a clear skill difference from installing a widget in KDE Plasma to compling and installing a custom kernel.
Now lets talk about the things they should have mentioned:
Many people are also not willing to buy new hardware. I have several friends where each PC purchase is a massive hit on their budget that requires other things to be sacrificed. And one does pay for a Windows key every time they buy a Windows PC. SIs who sell PCs with Windows as optional offer the Linux PCs for cheaper since you don’t have to pay the Windows license fee.
Depends on the PC, some of them just will not go to 11, in which case you are talking about spending hundreds of dollars to go from Win 10 to Win 11, but $0 to go from Win 10 to Linux.
Privacy is exactly what got me and one of my other friends to switch. Many, many people don’t like being spied on. And taking reasonable steps to reduce it is very much so within our control.
Not buying something new and using what you have demonstrably helps. There is no world in which throwing away a perfectly good PC just to manufacture and transport another is somehow better for carbon emissions. Microsoft should not be rewarded for creating so much unnecessary ewaste by encouraging people to go out and buy another Windows PC.
You can also just stay on Windows 10 and get 3rd party security updates. That is a legitimate option that for a lot of people is going to be their best choice.
Because the people that would or can switch would already switch after it’s been posted for the 1000th time. It’s not realistic because the vast majority of people simply don’t care. People hate windows updates enough as it is, to most average people this is good news.
Not caring is why these corporations have the power they do.
I downvoted it.
For starters I’ve seen this exact post a few times over the past 3 months in this community.
Secondly, the comments go exactly the same in these threads:
Next, windows does everything I want it to do, I disabled and uninstalled everything I didn’t want easily through settings & group policy, and it hasn’t bothered me since.
I imagine the downvotes are backlash against all the people who convince themselves that Linux is the only viable solution regardless of use case or workflow. There are definitely loads of people in the Linux community and the open source community in general who will pick a piece of software and proselytize it with no consideration whatsoever whether it fits someone’s actual needs. Like, personally, I like Linux but there are things I need to do that require me to have Windows. For some people this fact is absolutely unacceptable and they simply won’t hear it.
What can’t you do on Linux that keeps you on Windows or Mac?
There may be a few more, but these are the big ones. JACK, at the moment, just isn’t a replacement for Voicemeeter and while there are some DAWs for Linux, they’re not FL and I don’t know if they’re compatible with Guitar Rig. I’ve used OpenShot for video as well, and while it’s not terrible it isn’t really comparable.
I’m sure that Linux is a good fit for many users. Personally, as an operating system alone if it weren’t for these issues, I’d prefer it. I’d love to be able to do what I need to do and also have a plasma, it’s much nicer. But at the moment it isn’t a real option without sacrificing things that I actually need. I also really can’t be dealing with suddenly needing to sort out how to make a finicky program work at the drop of a hat when I’m in the middle of working on a project.
I’ve been dabbling with Linux since the early 00s. I like it and I wish it were a substitute for Windows for my use case, but it isn’t. No amount of people being rude and obtuse in threads will change that. Time might, but it hasn’t yet.
Ah I see. Pipewire has made audio production a lot easier with far fewer latency issues. I know the FL Studio crowd is pretty diehard, but if you’re ever feeling adventurous there’s a lot more in the audio space now. I personally use Reaper to record my guitar through my Audient interface and have no issues. I’m not much of a beats and loops guy though so YMMV.
Does it have separate audio channels and input/output controls with volume sliders and hotkeys? That would still leave a few other issues, but progress is progress and I do like to keep myself aware of the options so that I’ll know when it finally ticks all the boxes.
I’m not sure I understand the question. Pipewire is the audio server, replacing Pulse. It does have frontends that allow routing from different devices, channels, software etc and distributions that are using Pipewire now have interface elements that allow you to control application use of audio devices. I’m not sure I answered your question at all lol.
I use pipewire with Ardour and Neural DSP VSTs (over wine) with zero issues on EndeavourOS. I really hadn’t expected that. Now, I generally just use this stuff to not have to buy many physical pedals so I rarely do recording, but that has worked as well.
You seem to be way more advanced than me in that regard, so I can’t say if it would work for you, but it was so much easier and better than when I tried the same thing years ago. I’d suspect that GuitarRig works as well, though I haven’t tried. I may just do so this weekend, but can’t promise.
I have GuitarPro running with wine as well.
photoshop, multiplayer games, excel specific macros, 99% of the accounting programs, drivers wificard soundcards, multimonitor support that doesnt shits itself within 10 seconds…2 years ago i tried mint, ubuntu, manjaro, they all failed.
2 years is a long time. Driver issues are few and far between these days. Multi monitor support has greatly improved as well. I can’t help you with your software requirements if you’re stuck using proprietary programs like Photoshop. I can tell you that as a professional graphic designer and illustrator the alternatives to “industry standard” software are powerful and arguably better (Inkscape) on the Linux side. It does take time and effort to retrain years of shortcuts and workflow experience, but it’s definitely doable.
Maybe one day when you’re feeling adventurous give Linux another shot. I know for a lot of people the ethics of open source vs closed aren’t really important, but it’s still fun to see what else is out there.
i see now. you just love to be downvoted.
Why? I thought it was a pretty reasonable reply.
I really need to stop putting it off and install Linux on my PC and laptops
Yes, exactly.
(Kinda unrelated side note: Nobody around me is getting that all these apps are STUPID and MAKES YOU THE PRODUCT. Just why are they critisizing without even trying them?)
How many laptops do you own lol?
Families exist. I’m the “IT guy” for 3 people using laptops
That’s reasonable; I just wouldn’t have called my wife’s laptop my laptop I guess. It was either that or there was probably an interesting story behind it.
They are all my personal laptops from different parts of my past, that I just never threw away when I upgraded
If you keep forgetting them for another ~15-25 more years they might have value in the retro space.
Shadow retirement fund
2, though they are both quite old
I end up with all the “broken” laptops my family replaces after they buy new ones.
I’ve got like 9 laptops. Active ones are my Linux one, work one (windows 11) and my wife’s school one (windows 11). We both have win 10 desktops still.
I’m between living locations and can’t carry my desktop around.
So I grabbed an old laptop and put Linux mint on it. It’s been near perfect. Extremely smooth experience.
It detected my printer and auto installed. I installed steam and played Terraria without issue. Small performance problem but I don’t have a GPU. Even works good with my docking station.
My only complaint is the audio device doesn’t switch automatically when I dock/undock.
I’d recommend making a USB and boot into it for a test drive.
Awesome, thanks for the insight. I was actually looking at Linux Mint myself. I need around 4Gb on a USB to boot it, correct?
That might do it. I don’t own anything smaller than 16 GB sticks. I used Rufus on windows to make my stick.
Rufus is great and I still keep a copy around, but I haven’t gone back since I found Ventoy. You just run Ventoy on your stick, and then drag and drop any and all bootable ISOs into it. When you boot it, you get a list of all the ISOs to work with.
The only caveat is that you absolutely have to eject the USB, or else Ventoy probably will corrupt. That’s a small price to pay to have Arch, Mint, Fedora, NixOS, and Win11 all on one OS ISO toolkit drive, plus I always eject my drives as a rule of thumb. Then all I have to do is update them every couple months.
Yeah I should switch to Ventoy.
Haven’t booted windows in over a month now. If I want to play pubg or bf1, thats about the only reason I need windows. And I do a lot of gaming, just not aaa multi-player. But I am enjoying computing again just like when I was younger and computers were interesting and fun and not corpo ad stations on your machine.
I dual booth Win11 and Fedora Desk 42. It feels gross starting windows but there are 2, TWO! Apps that don’t have Linux version that I still need.
When Linux wizards figure out a way to use win apps without the intimidating complexity of installing Wine or virtualization, more people will switch.
I would give that a shot. The full guide is install ‘wine’ and ‘winetricks’ the same way you install any other software you use. Then in winetricks, select ‘default prefix’, then ‘run arbitrary executable’, and point it to your .exe installer. After that, you just open the program like any other program on your system.
You generally don’t need to do more than that and might let you forgo ever dual booting again.
I recently jumped on pure Mint after buying a new desktop PC with no OS pre-installed. Within a week I was dual booting it on my laptop too. It’s so much faster and efficient. Battery feels like it lasts 50% longer.
And the control is amazing.
I was very skeptical of Linux, as I had a shitty experience previously with OpenSUSE where nothing worked. Mint is the way to go tho, been so smooth.
Linux Mint would like a word. Best choice tech wise I ever made. Shit just works and it’s dead simple, polished, easy to learn and read programs. Fuck Windows. I will never go back. Make the jump!
That’s good to know. Mint was going to be my distro of choice
endof10.org
Installed Linux Mint a few months ago and have been dual booting. Hardly use Windows at all now.
Linux is exactly what an OS should be.
What is the highest spec pc I am likely to find for sale when people realise it cant go to windows 11?
TMP 2.0 released in October 2014, so I don’t think that you can find particularly powerful systems up for grabs.
Unless the requirements have changed, you’re looking at 2016-2017 era. Intel 7000-series, AMD Ryzen 1000-series. Newer may be available if there’s no TPM installed.
I had a look and it looks like you will not get anything special. The cutoff is around 2015. So for example Lenovo T440s will support Win11 but T440p will not. Looking at backmarket T440s is cheaper than T440p. So looks like you will only be able to get something ancient and the price will be pretty standard.
I’ve had windows update disabled for years so the fact that it’s “end of life” don’t mean shit to me. It’ll keep chugging along for years more.
That said, I installed Mint a week ago and love it!
Mint was my first Linux OS, and it’s been really nice.
Not my first, but the one I landed on after years. It’s just so good.
EOL means no more security updates, which means attack vectors don’t get patched.
If you keep using a Windows installation (or any OS for that matter) that isn’t patched regularly you are very likely to be victim to some malicious actor eventually. It’s not manual hacking anymore, it’s bots scraping the whole internet exploiting known vulnerabilities completely automated.
The risk is much lower if you’re in a home network with NAT, where your PCs IP is not publicly reachable, but if you communicate with any webservices you’re still vulnerable.
As example. If you nowadays put a Windows XP machine live on the internet with a public IP, it will be compromised within minutes.
So yeah. Good call switching to Mint, but please don’t use unpatched Windows.
I saw a YT video about XP being compromised. It was literally about 2-3 minutes, and it had been attacked.
Yeah, we managed to recreate that in a lab. Those old OS’s are super vulnerable.
This is what 0patch is for!
Nat is not a security feature.
Just use ipv6
If you’re behind a conventional router they still do NAT afaik.
Per default your IPv6 address should be an internal one if it’s enabled.
My third world country gives us normal IPv6 addresses that can be accessed from the web if you configure the router xd
I just rage-downgraded back to 10 a couple days ago. is there any reason why I shouldn’t just keep using it after this year? are we ever going to see a risk for zero day exploits for it like happened for XP after it depreciated?
You mean aside from all the reasons not to use Windows that applied even before deprecation? 'Cause there are a fuck-ton of those.
Unironically, yes. I was already aware of those and take them into account
Consider running the LTSC version. It gets extended support.
I’ve been migrating some of my clients (I do on site support for SMBs) to LTSC 2019, which gets updates until 2029. An added benefit is that it gets a lot less updates, essentially security updates, and comes with a lot less crap preinstalled.
ESU also offers one year of support for non-enterprise users for $30.
If one were to run Win10 Enterprise LTSC IoT, “activated”… would it continue to automatically receive updates?
I have to assume so since other versions that have been “activated” the same way do. Real big shout out to you-know-who, btw. They make Microsoft software viable at all.
Windows 10 doesn’t actually need to be activated to receive security updates. You’ll just deal with an annoying watermark in the bottom right all the time. IoT may be different, though.
Regardless, I recommend taking a look at this project: massgrave.dev
Just look up windows related cves. There’s like 10 new exploits almost every month or so. Sure, not all of them will be super critical, but as time goes on they will stack up. I would not want to risk it, but you do you.
The only time I use Windows is for Fusion 360
I wish I could make parts in FreeCAD anywhere close to as good as I can in Fusion 360… I REALLY miss it since the move to Linux. I’m not anywhere near as excited about my 3D printer anymore since designing parts is a slog and the end result I am generally un-proud of. :( I feel like my only option (which sucks) is buy a second GPU for pass through and install windows 10 in a VM that only touches the internet once every 2 weeks to keep Fusion happy.
It’s possible to pass thru a single GPU. I followed this guide on my Fedora desktop
m.youtube.com/watch?v=eTWf5D092VY
It is possible, but I have problems with it. Number one, my current GPU is one affected by the AMD reset bug, so it would take even more tinkering than that tutorial to get working. Number two, I’d prefer to not have to choose between windows or linux having the GPU - having to shut down the VM to get back to my normal desktop and programs is not ideal.
Also, I just wish FreeCAD made more sense to me, as I don’t trust Autodesk long-term to not take away the “free for personal use” license. They’ve already taken several anti-consumer steps already. :(
<img alt="" src="https://dreifir.com/get?link=652">
wishful thinking. i mean i get where the sentiment is coming from, but normal users are going to have a lot of problems if they make that switch. especially if they need particular types of software.
If you find yourself not wanting to switch, there are third party options for patching. I’m going to try zero patch, but I have no experience with them to date.
Call me when Libre doesn’t suck/feel like it’s stuck in 2003.
I won’t hold my breath.
If you don’t like it, try OnlyOffice.
Call me when Windows doesn’t suck and it’s not getting worse year by year. I will laugh every time they add more ads and more tracking.
Baby duck syndrome.
Look like you’re already stuck in 2003
The end of windows 10 support is approaching. Windows 10 will go on for a while yet.
Yeah but my W10 shoved a giant full screen ad telling me to get rid of my PC and get a new one with W11 twice. Support might be ending but if it constantly nags you to upgrade, that’s just BS.
Can’t wait for the “The end of Windows 11 is approaching…” article in a few years. Keep me posted.
Windows 12, with AI even moreso integrated.
Nah, there’ll be a new boogeyman by then.
Somehow, windows 11 is even MORE spyware than 10!
Now with AI! So Windows can use your processing power to record and analyze every use of your computer, and report back useful findings to MS. What data is sent back? Who knows? You certainly won’t be told what ‘core telemetry’ is required at any point in time.
Except the Diagnostics Data Viewer has been a thing for a long time and tells you exactly what data is sent back as telemetry. Now if you don’t believe it that another topic.
at least I haven’t seen anyone prove it sends all data of your machine
Have you ever looked at what’s in that thing? It’s not exactly transparent. There’s heap of data that’s is not clearly labelled or easily readable. Also, again, what data is sent can changes from update to update - without any any control from the owner of the computer; and without so much as a notification or even an update log.
GF recently wanted to buy Ms office because she had a nice looking CV template for it that would not work well in LibreOffice. So I spent some hours making a good one without Ms crap, just so they would not get anymore money.
Pretty sure the template would work fine with OnlyOffice.
I just rebuilt mine and can confirm that most of those resume template builders utilize a lot of word doc “hacks” to format everything, and loading and LibreOffice breaks it.
Even in Word, some of those templates behaves weirdly.
Also 0patch, which will continue to provide security patches for Windows 10 indefinitely.
LOL no. There are many good reasons choose Linux on the desktop/laptop, but the so-called Win10 apocalypse isn’t in the top 10.
Whilst that’s true, it’s a good opportunity to push Linux as a potential alternative in a few different ways - reduction of e-waste, free and private oriented alternative, simple (in some situations/distro) for certain basic users, or even someone who wants to get a little more technical. It’s good to promote the idea that there is more to computers than a monolithic monopoly called Microsoft.
Two of my friends switched recently precisely because Win 10 was going end of life. ‘I have to change the OS anyway’ was the final motivator.
I’ve been a full time dev since 2012 and needed a Mac, I had barely used windows over that time but beforehand ran a PC service business.
Anyway, Ive been using Linux as a daily driver for the past 6 months for reasons.
… The other day I got a new cheap laptop I needed to setup for run a single application.
Holy fuck what a shitshow.
It took me 2 hours just to get to the desktop. Shit didn’t work, bullshit login screens, ads everywhere.
It was a massive pile of dog shit.
After battling to get the system setup for the rest of the day I gave up, chucked Fedora Kinoite On it… Took 30 minutes from creating boot media to getting a desktop going, chucked the app I needed to run in a Flatpack, chucked it on a USB, and it was up and running.
No bullshit.
Just works.
Truly the year of the Linux desktop.
I’m guessing the cheap laptop was running Windows? You didn’t mention, it sounds at first like you’re saying you were using Linux on it.
What ads were everywhere? Why did it “take 2 hours to get to the desktop” - you mean, that’s how long it took to install or something?
People here so full of shit. I just reimaged my lenovo t570 with windows 11 took less then 10mins to install. Another 5 to remove all the bs built in software like solitaire Cortana etc and then another 10-15 to apply all windows updates. Bam done.
You can even skip step 2 by using one of the IoT editions (either Win10 or Win11) which come minus the prepackaged bloatware.
Microsoft is mostly interested in making everything bullshit for home users. If you convince them you’re an enterprise customer, preferably by running up the old Jolly Roger, suddenly your life is a lot easier.
Takes a lot more to fully deshittify it, though. I’ve been down that road. So much registry diving, so many third party apps, strongarming uninstallations of bloatware through brute force, and just all around weeks of work.
When the screenshot shit was announced the first time, I just got tired of looking for workarounds to disable or remove Microsoft’s active attempts of policing, spying, and triple-dip profiting off it’s paying customers.
Install the IoT version, that comes without any of the bloat and works just fine. Not even the Microsoft store is bundled in.
I have heard about the IoT version. I’d have to look more into it, but I doubt I’m going back now that I’ve learned so much about Linux. I can troubleshoot most of Arch without touching the docs or asking online now, so it really defeats the purpose of switching back.
I also enjoy putting in a little effort to get things working. That’s the thing about Linux. Most people that daily drive it get a dopamine release from tinkering with it and fixing things, and I’m one of those people.
I know there has been a big “its for everyone” push these days, but its really not. So I’m glad the IoT version exists for those that want or need it.
Yeah Linux is great, no doubt. I’ve been using Xubuntu since forever, never really touched Arch, but fundamentally if you know your way around one system, you’ll manage another.
Still, there are a bunch of applications that I must run under Windows, so it’s good to have the no frills version available for that.
Where does one purchase a single license for windows 10 iot lts? Isn’t that only for volume purchases by large enterprises?
Yeah, I’m not sure why anybody is mentioning Windows IoT. When you lookup where to buy this, Microsoft themselves tell you to call or email a salesman; it’s an enterprise-only thing. Recommending this for individuals is misguided.
Yeah, sure. But I don’t run a shop anymore and just picked up an off the shelf machine from a retailer.
Turned it on, connected it to wifi, then it took forever to try and update itself, which failed, required another reboot, then made me sign in, which also failed, needed a reboot
I dont want a fucking ms account, I don’t want to wait for every update, just ask my name and take me to the desktop
Sounds like a personal skill issue. Especially if you bought some crappy off the shelf laptop.
Also you dont need any of that to use windows so again pushing false narrative since you can use windows with an offline account perfectly fine. Since I use mine for school and dont sign into Microsoft.
Sorry answered it elsewhere, yep windows 11.
The forced update took forever and failed and then it also fucked out with the Microsoft account. It was legit 2 hours from boot to seeing a desktop. I wanted to skip the updates and the Microsoft account.
The start menu is full of ads for software I don’t want. If I buy software off you, stop trying to upsell me.
It’s not all quite as rosy.
Yes, Linux is much more capable now than it was 10 years ago and it’s much more capable of being used as a main system. I myself have been using Linux as my main system for a few years now.
But it’s also a fact that a lot of stuff might not work (even if it works for someone else) and that some things are still more difficult than they should be.
For example, on my laptop cannot wake from sleep since kernel 6.11. I have manually sourced a 6.10 from an older version of my distro and keep holding it back, so that I can use my laptop as a laptop. For someone without technical skill, this would mean that their laptop just can’t sleep any more. Hibernate also doesn’t work.
Another example is that LibreOffice still makes a lot of formatting mistakes when it has to open word documents. And sure, everyone could just switch to odf, but it’s not quite as easy to make everyone else switch to odf. It makes it really hard to use LibreOffice in any kind of professional environment. Wouldn’t want to make a powerpoint presentation that then looks like shit when it’s played on a different PC.
Lastly, Nvidia sucks, but it’s also close to the only option for laptops with dGPUs. When I look for laptops with dGPUs available in my area on a price comparison platform, I find 760 laptops with Nvidia GPUs and only 3 with AMD, all of which are priced at least €500 more than comparable Nvidia devices. So if you want to go for a gaming laptop, Nvidia is pretty much the only option, and under Linux it really sucks. Steam games generally work ok for me, but trying to use Heroic Launcher to play anything from my gigantic library of free Epic/Amazon/GoG games, about 10% of the games I tried actually work. And even with those that work, my laptop sometimes just decides that a slide show with 3 FPS is good enough. That stays even after reboots and resets, and after a few days it returns to normal. Only to go back to slideshow mode a few days later.
If you just use your laptop to run a browser, I can recommend Linux 100%.
If you want to do anything else and don’t have any technical skills and/or don’t want to spend hours fixing things that should just work, I can’t fully recommend it.
I am a developer and Linux is my native environment in production systems. I wanted to use Linux on my laptop but sleeping / waking up never worked well enough. It could not switch from integrated video card to a discrete one ending up always using the discrete one which drained the battery in 30 minutes. All in all, it was usable but the details didn’t work so I gave up. That was years ago and eversince no customer really allows Linux…
Sleep/hibernate has been a pretty big problem for a while. As for the gpu, have you checked out NixOS? There’s ways to enforce your integrated card to handle everything and change states for certain apps to the discreet card.
It takes a bit to learn, but nixlang is pretty simple. I’ve heard it referred to as “JSON with functions”. It also has the largest package repository of any OS and is atomic, so its hard as hell to break. You can even make separate, containerized dev environments with flakes.
I read posts just like yours ten years ago.
I guess you aren’t wrong. There are a lot of advances but stability and small but really annoying bugs remain a huge pain point.
No, no its not. I get it lemmy has a hard on for Linux and libreoffice. But unfortunately its just not gonna happen windows is king. If you like or not its the main dog on the market and enterprises are not going to switch.
With a couple of governments making the switch I honestly think that things are changing to some degree. Will windows die and be forgotten by everyone overnight? Of course not. But I think there’s a real chance their piece of the pie will start to shrink noticeably. Chrome OS is dominating in schools for a few years now and Microsoft is seemingly trying hard to alienate the current windows users.
What the hell are you on about. This is not a “everyone or no one” thing. You can consider it. I have, I switched. I still use mac at work but I absolutely can switch at the homefront. Some companies use Linux, most use Windows. And they absolutely can consider switching.
.
Microsoft already lost enterprise servers to Linux, and has lost significant ground over the years in consumer PCs to ChromeOS, MacOS, and Linux. Hell, the top PC gaming handheld is a Linux offering. That was an unheard of idea just five years ago.
While I agree that business laptops will continue to be dominated by Windows for awhile, the market shifts we see everywhere have downstream effects on business laptops too. When you find yourself having to train more and more people on how to use Windows than you did in the past, the value argument for Windows on your employee’s laptops quickly comes into question.
I haven’t used Windows at work in years for anything, not for cloud hosting, not for on-prem, not for employee machines etc etc. until the cost-cutters came in and forced Teams and other Microsoft crap to squeeze the market during inflation. The company is just waiting to be killed off now.
I’d actually argue enterprise is more likely for people to switch, there’s a lot of Linux sysadmins out there, and there’s a lot of Linux in enterprise environments, and of course especially servers.
Unless you have specific requirements for specific software that runs only on Windows, getting away from Microsoft can be a pretty tempting prospect. Even if there are people who fear change and the idea of change like the plague.
I think at this point Android is the king of operating systems in terms of what the majority of consumer devices run. Perhaps the path forward is people plugging their phone into a dock and being presented with a more productive interface.
What?! I’m still working on my spreadsheet comparing 7 and 8!
I might be a little behind on Windows releases, because this is the first time I’ve heard of a version 40320
I mean, if whole EU countries can do it, so can you.
I got a cheap mini pc. It had W11 on it which I promptly broke (I think it was when it insisted on me putting in a PIN but I closed the window). It also ran at 100% for no reason trying to do updates, but then refused to do any updates.
So I put the latest Ubuntu Linux on it. Seems OK, but I can’t get anything to recognise the video codex stuff in the N150 CPU. It seems to know it’s there, but Firefox and MPV won’t use it…
I know when you install Mint there is a ‘install codecs’ checkbox during the installer, not sure if the same exists for Ubuntu.
For Ubuntu, you could try this and see if it solves your problem.
Yeah, tried all that, and not having much luck in Firefox and MPV. VLC fine. Replied to the other post, and it might be Snap blocking it. I dunno though, because I know basically fuck all about snap other than a lot of Linux people don’t like it.
O, yeah. Snaps basically live in their own little system. Anything you do to your wider system, like installing codecs, will not affect a snap. Easiest solution is to remove the snap VLC and install normal VLC. Same for Firefox and MPC.
I have heard nothing good about snaps and Canonical pushing them is a big reason you don’t see people recommending Ubuntu, and instead recommending things like Mint (me included).
Well, shit…
I went with Ubuntu because the N150 is fairly new (even if it’s just a slightly faster N100) and the 25.04 Ubuntu kernel supports it out of the box.
I wouldn’t worry about it too hard, there isn’t anything fundamentally wrong with Ubuntu. Both it and mint are in the same family after all.
Sounds like you should just keep Ubuntu and get the non-snap versions of the apps that need codecs.
Yeah, I removed Snap mpv and reinstalled with apt.
Lo and behold, it works perfectly all of a sudden.
Firefox looks like more effort, and apt will install the snap version. Even if you uninstall snap. Fun. If I could enable what is missing I’d be OK, but I’ve no idea what it is…
You need to install the codecs, there’s a way to do it on ubuntu, just google search it (and there’s an option during installation to do it too). The N150 cpu and its integrated gpu is not a problem for your codec problem, it’s a matter of installing the right software.
Yeah, I thought I’d ticked something similar during setup, but maybe it wasn’t for that. I installed them and it hasn’t really changed anything in either mpv or Firefox.
The compositing in Firefox is webrender (software) and appears to be using llvmpipe as the GPU. There’s a 2nd “GPU” listed, but doesn’t seem to use it All the codecs say hardware is disabled…
Installed VLC and that seems to use the hardware renderer. MPV and Firefox are both installed with Snap. I’m seeing a pattern that might not be there, but I’m already hating Snap. This is day two of my rebooted Linux experience…
Yeah, snaps won’t be able to access the “external” codecs (outside their jail). So either install the official firefox package from the firefox site, or chrome.
The big thing to consider is what software do you really NEED, what can change, and what can you do without. Then the change is easier.
Then there’s the learning curve of new software. Wheee
For a lot of people that say of thinking doesn’t work, they explicitly don’t want to/wont go without, people enjoy luxury and convenience and aren’t going to skate by on only things they strictly need
OK, really good article and I like Libreoffice (although I prefer Only office) and Linux. I browse on it, game, watch videos, do pretty much everything. I am also a technical person, who can create a VM in 10 mins, add a required boot parameter, etc.
Now. I want to send this article to my colleague/friend who’s not technical at all. In the blog post I read
“Second partition” literally means nothing to most people. I know: just learn, just read. But most people will not bother, or they will simply not understand the tutorials. That’s the unfortunate reality.
I think Linux and Libreoffice can become mainstream if a regular Joe/Jane can buy a laptop from Walmart with a distro and office apps pre-installed and use them like Microsoft Office. Before that time all this Linux and FLOSS stuff is limited to technical, or at least curious people willing to put some effort.
P.S. My relatives are on Linux and Onlyoffice, because I installed it for them. And it’s so much easier and more rare for me to manage and troubleshoot than Windows. But I cannot see them installing it by themselves.
Yeah I’ve been considering switching to Linux but I’m not a tech person. I know enough to play some games and install some Minecraft mods and that’s it. Since I was thinking about getting a new lightweight laptop I was gonna get one with Linux instead of windows to give it a try but every time I found one that said Linux I’d look at the specs and it says the operating system is actually windows. I’d be willing to learn how to get Linux myself but I’m worried about ruining my computer because I don’t understand even half of the technical stuff. If anyone has any up to date very beginner friendly guides, I’d appreciate the recommendation
If you are willing to learn, then you can check Linux laptops from Framework, Tuxedo and Entroware. Linux preinstalled, and hardware is compatible.
Thanks! I’ll check those out!
No thanks, I value my time.
Ironic
Im seeing these posts twice a day at this point. So someone like myself who is totally ignorant on Linux, I have some questions if anyone can lend advice?
I’ve been on PC windows for over twenty years now. And I use it mostly for video software like davinci resolve. Adobe software workflow. Unreal engine. I use clients harddrives and often times my own for working off of. And often times will send those harddrives to other people and their computers to finish the work. I also occasional play games on steam and Xbox App.
With that said, is it even possible for me to switch over to Linux and keep using all the same software and workflow I have for high end video production workflow?
Davinci, yes but it can be frustrating to set up.
Unreal, I’m pretty sure yes. I don’t see why not. I think it takes effort to setup though.
Adobe, No.
You might unironically want to go for Mac. Either the laptop or desktop XD
Haha ya I assumed those things. I have a Mac that I use as well. But typically prefer a PC when worki by from home :/
While I’m pretty sure you’re correct on majority of cases, there’s still some stuff, like non-steam games, which just won’t work no matter what you do. So, on paper these things work but your mileage may vary.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other. You can do most of your work in linux and boot windows as a ‘secondary’ OS for stuff like adobe? I do this, and share NTFS SSDs/hard drives between them.
You are hitting weak points of linux though. I do all media work on linux (a lot through vapoursynth or ‘lower level’ frameworks than resolve I suppose), but TBH do most of my gaming on Windows, not just for convenience but for performance reasons too.
OnlyOffice is way better than LibreOffice.
Bruh…I’m still running windows 7 in one of my VMs hosted by Debian 😏😏😏
Don’t and done. No problems, highly recommend it
I’m likely going to because windows update is embarrassingly bad if you have 32gb as your goddamn boot drive.
these articles offer ms office alternatives acting like most people write their shopping lists in excel or something. i remember my friend asking for a cheap key for office, and i asked him when was the last time he opened a file in office. after a few seconds of waiting he told me that he opened up an rtf manual for an ancient tomb raider game…told him that almost anything can open an rtf. he lives an officeless life since.