i don’t think this other commenter was calling you out. i think they were just bringing up a point of discussion that’s relevant to the point you brought up
It’s not about the store, it’s about the notification.
As mentioned in the Time article:
the app is not available on Android because it “requires a device ID in order to send push notifications, which requires a user account and a password.”
brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Jul 22:17
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Ntfy.sh
There are ways around that
wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Jul 22:42
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Good old firebase. Notifications are not entirely device local on android, or something like that.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 00:33
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You don’t need a user account or password to receive a push notification.
You just need to have the app installed. The app can be configured by the developer to receive push notifications.
And the developer needs a device ID for that. Which is their objection: www.iceblock.app/android
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 17:45
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How do you suppose APNS knows which device to deliver the notification to?
Something that… links it to the device? Like, a unique ID that Apple can identify?
It sounds like he thinks HE has to store this information, which is simply incorrect. It will obviously be stored by Google in Firebase, and by Apple wherever that gets stored, but HE does not have to store it.
I write apps for a living. I have users subscribe and unsubscribe to channels, and at no point is there a user account with password involved in either iOS or Android. If you want the memory of which channels they have subscribed to to persist across uninstall/reinstalls or different devices, then yes, but for an app like this you don’t need to persist those settings.
At any point the government could subpoena who’s received pushes (or at least, who’s registered to) from both Google and Apple.
I’m not the developer, but I do also write app backends for a living so I know there is some nuance that you’re skipping over in your response. But if you have a way to do this completely anonymous on android I’d suggest offering help to the developer who made this.
Something that… links it to the device? Like, a unique ID that Apple can identify?
APNS tokens are linked to the app install and renew on a certain timeline. Already making them not exactly the same as a device identifier.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 18:09
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No, you’re right, GOOGLE will take the device identifier, but him talking about how he would need to store it, and especially for channels where he talks about user names and passwords really makes me think that he thinks he personally has to do it, with his own backend storing it. (edit: The point is, that he doesn’t HAVE to do it this way. You can, and it gives you more control, but you can let Google do it all. It’s never anonymous with anyone though.)
Apple knows which devices have the app installed. They would be able to link that back to the device if it was demanded, even if it is a bit more obscured.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 18:12
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Just figured I’d add Apples own documentation as well
Apple Push Notification service (APNs) must know the address of a user’s device before it can send notifications to that device. This address takes the form of a device token unique to both the device and your app. At launch time, your app communicates with APNs and receives its device token, which you then forward to your provider server. Your server includes that token with any notifications it sends.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
on 04 Jul 07:05
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Now GrapheneOS the privacy based Android OS is calling them out
It has to do with receiving notifications from the app in a privacy-preserving way. Unless the app is running with a server connection 24/7 (RIP battery life) you need to rely on the OS to deliver notifications.
Ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 02 Jul 06:16
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You don’t, there’s privacy respecting ways of delivering notifications in android.
Also, a 24/7 connection to a server isn’t nearly as bad as you might think.
The connection isn’t active the whole time, it only uses any significant amount of battery if there’s actually data being sent or received. You likely already have quite a few of them anyway, how do you think systems normally listen for push notifications?
Besides all that, I read in other comments that the privacy issue was the device id firebase needs. Obviously apple also needs some kind of device id, otherwise how do they know where the notifications are going?
Did some searching, yup apple also needs a unique identifier:
When it’s time to send a notification, you generate a request that contains the notification data and a unique identifier for the user’s device.
It’s really hard for me to understand how iOS is better in this sense. The only way to get this app is via the app store and the ONLY way to use the app store is be registering yourself with apple. Seems to me that you are tracked either way.
IMHO the devs probably wrote this in Swift and just don’t have experience working with android. Whole thing/story is just off IMO.
I’m really just sceptical about the whole thing being closed source really.
which is great for necessitating the need to give absolute militant power to police forces. It’s like… the PR of him having a ‘meltdown’ is for a reason or something.
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 11:03
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Probably lots of people in red states. Farmers for instance, people who generally buy the Republican bullshit, but may personally rely heavily on immigrant workers. ICE puts them in a really tough position.
You’ve made a potential error in underestimating just how horrible some peoples’ lives are and how filled with hatred they are over that fact. This is really what drives so much of politics in the world–disgruntled people with no future who choose to hate others who have nothing to do with it.
You’ve made a potential error in underestimating just how horrible some peoples’ lives are and how filled with hatred they are over that fact.
What fact? People’s lives are horrible BECAUSE of ICE. They’re so horrible that I considered that nobody would be “on the fence” because either you drank the Fear-Of-Crime Kool-Aid or you are horrified at what ICE agents are doing to children and poor people. The entire reason there are people who don’t think ICE needs to be abolished right now is because Fox News and other right-wing grifters have pumped out propaganda making it look like there is a “crime wave” like it’s the Reagan Era, and people living in the Suburbs not knowing what the outside world is like. Not only do they choose to portray a crime wave, they have to do it, because otherwise people would see their president as the power-hungry maniac he is rather than a savior of order. No riot is actually making people miserable, only the police-reported, sensationalist coverage of protests.
This is really what drives so much of politics in the world–disgruntled people with no future who choose to hate others who have nothing to do with it.
That’s just the American Suburbs. I hope American states can secede to change this. Meanwhile, in Vietnam, there is a high-speed rail being built. This is not driven by disgruntled people, people with no future, or people who choose not to hate others who have nothing to do with it. Neither is Iran defending itself from an imperialist regime, nor Australia having their left-wing Labour party completely outdo the right-wing Liberal party. America is the villain here.
Mamdani_Da_Savior@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 00:38
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Good, those agents are playing a dangerous game and you should know if you play with fire your going get burned. Its a matter of time before they try to kidnap the wrong person, and that person decides its better to die in America then it is to go to a camp then deported.
Oni_eyes@sh.itjust.works
on 01 Jul 21:23
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Is it apple only? Would love it on my droid if it’s available.
“He’s giving a message to criminals where our federal officers are, and he cannot do that, and we are looking at it, we are looking at him, and he better watch out,” Bondi said. “Because that is not protected speech, that is threatening the lives of our law enforcement officers throughout this country, and shame on CNN!”
Why can’t he do that, Pammy?
Gotta say Aaron is a bold motherfucker.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 01 Jul 21:36
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Why can’t he? She literally says why not in the text you copied and pasted lol
osaerisxero@kbin.melroy.org
on 01 Jul 21:48
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Yes, but that statement also contains over 50% lies by volume
“the First Amendment protects the right to gather information about what public officials do on public property.” Smith v. City of Cumming, 212 F. 3d 1332, 1333 (11th Cir. 2000).
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 02 Jul 00:22
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Sure, you can gather that information. You can’t then put it out there publicly to help people break the law, and to put federal law enforcement employees lives in danger.
I want you to explain to me how when Google does it (allowing anyone with an app to report a speed trap - you know where law enforcement is present) it’s legal but when some random developer who’s not a multi-million dollar Corp does it, it’s illegal and obstruction.
I’ll wait for your list of case law.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 02 Jul 04:57
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Waze and Google maps don’t let you report them for the purpose of helping illegal immigrants avoid law enforcement, or to tell people where to attack.
In all actuality I believe the point of being able to report a speed trap is to allow people to avoid getting caught breaking the law which amounts to the same thing.
Google maps and Waze can absolutely be used to show where to attack law enforcement. They can also be used to avoid law enforcement. What you’re saying is that you feel like the intention of the app is to break the law in some way but you’ve been given a similar app that does basically the same thing and you back up nothing or what you’ve said with documented case law or even the laws you think this app is breaking. Cool. Good talk.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 02 Jul 21:58
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The main difference is that speed traps and cameras etc are deterrents. They’re supposed to make people slow down, that’s the point of signposting them. Knowing where they are makes people slow down. Their existence is to try and stop people from breaking the law.
Knowing where ICE agents are doesn’t stop people from being in the country illegally.
And yes, again, intent matters. No matter how cute people think they’re being by pretending it’s not meant for X, not everyone is stupid and oblivious enough to fall for it.
There’s one major problem with what you’re saying. It’s that ICE is actively jailing people without giving them due process. As an entity it is assuming guilt which is in direct conflict with the constitution. Because it’s violating the rights of the people it is no longer a government agency acting for the people, and because it’s actively breaking the law it is not protected. If you can’t understand that without due process they can and possibly will arrest you and deport you somewhere regardless of your constitutional right to reside in the US then you are in fact missing the main point of this app and there’s a reason people are down-voting you.
Also, you’re making a lot of assumptions about what the app is for, and still posit no actual proof of your position. You have made an assumption here and when confronted about your opinion based on that assumption you have continued to double down instead of even considering the alternatives.
And speed traps aren’t intended to be a detterant. I don’t know why you think that’s the case but in fact they are set up specifically to catch speeders. The deterrence is a bonus. But a lot of police departments make money for their municipality via speeding tickets. So don’t try to play like we can just ignore this so you can feel like you’ve won.
Can you prove that people are breaking the law by the mere collection and existence of this data?
How about those Flock ALPR cameras showing up everywhere? Can we be sure the collected data is being used in accordance with the law?
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 02 Jul 01:56
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They’re not just collecting it though, that’s the point - they’re publishing it on an app that is specifically made to help people evade law enforcement and to target violence at law enforcement.
They’re not advocating violence, just reporting a fact. (A hammer is a tool, but also a murder weapon) But you do understand the power asymmetry of an unaccountable police force, right? And just how dangerous this is to civil society? There have been multiple accounts of excessive and incorrect deportations by ICE, with no visible effort to attempt to correct those problems. People are now using the meager tools we have left to try to enforce accountability, before there is only one last tool in the toolbox.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 02 Jul 04:58
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They’re not advocating violence, just reporting a fact.
lol no one believes that, not even you.
But you do understand the power asymmetry of an unaccountable police force, right?
How are they “unaccountable”, and how is that even relevant?
orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
on 02 Jul 01:42
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Yes, we should follow the laws like our government officials and police always do. Give me a fucking break lmao.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 02 Jul 01:59
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You can choose to break the law if you want, but you can’t then cry about it if/when you get caught. This guy can make his ICE-tracking app, but he has to live with the repercussions.
orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
on 02 Jul 03:13
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Nobody is crying about getting arrested. The fascists are arresting anyone they please without due process. The people risking their safety know the risks. ICE and the police are breaking the law by obscuring their faces and badge numbers, but you’re complaining about working class folks breaking laws written by the ruling class. Laws that they constantly ignore.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au
on 02 Jul 05:00
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The fascists are arresting anyone they please without due process.
Anyone, or just those in the country illegally? Also law enforcement officers aren’t “fascists” just because they’re LEOs.
LikeableLime@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 09:31
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Anyone. Jesus christ have you not been watching the news? There have been countless American citizens detained by ICE because they don’t know, or care, what your legal status is when they arrest you. They just grab Anyone.
orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
on 02 Jul 10:41
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So you ignored every word of my comment to just say whatever idiotic thought popped into your head. Cool
Yes. When unidentified masked thugs who are not even in a coherent uniform show up to start beating in citizens and throw them into a van, that’s just abduction.
How are the various NATURAL BORN CITIZENS who’ve been kidnapped in any way in violation of immigration law? Explain that one to me? The people with green cards who’ve been trafficked out of the country despite having all the paperwork saying they can be there?
You’re falsely claiming these people are being accused of a crime, but there isn’t one to accuse them of. That’s abduction.
The app merely informs of locations, you choosing to add all that bullshit to it is your own hangup. Citizens who don’t want to be abducted by power tripping unidentified masked men - who’ve already been south to be violent and aggressive to random people regardless of status are also avoiding those areas. That’s not illegal.
ICE are the ones breaking the law.
brygphilomena@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Jul 22:19
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No, no, no. They painted the targets on themselves.
This app is telling people where to avoid. Not where to go.
All of a sudden, so many things are “not protected speech”. I find it tempting to be as ignorant as a Republican, but I’d certainly be caught off guard in that case.
Greene in an ad for her 2020 campaign cocked an assault rifle as she warned “antifa terrorists” to stay out of her district
Masters, a venture capitalist and favorite of Trump-loving billionaire Peter Thiel, has featured guns prominently throughout his primary campaign. He responded to President Biden’s promise on Monday to crack down on “ghost guns,” which are homemade and untraceable, by tweeting a picture of a “ghost gun” he recently built himself. “Very legal & very cool,” he wrote.
“I look forward to the day that Democrats are so rare, we have to hunt them with dogs,”
Edit: and for the record, Blake Masters is a piece of shit buddy of both elon and Vance and they are all tied together in their hate for democracy and love of Curtis Yarvin and the plot to destroy western civilization. (Source: vanityfair.com/…/inside-the-new-right-where-peter…)
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 22:05
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Fuck Apple!
johncandy1812@lemmy.ca
on 01 Jul 22:13
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How do they measure the difference between partial and full meltdowns?
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 22:44
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it’s probably rated based on how dark his bronzer is that day.
frenchfryenjoyer@lemmings.world
on 01 Jul 22:49
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if they’re worried about being tracked maybe they could do the easiest thing in the world which is not being complete shitheads?
WrenFeathers@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 03:33
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Ice and snowflakes always seem to go so well with one another.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 03:42
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Shouldn’t be an app. It should be a site accessible using vpn and private browsing with an appropriate browser. Nobody should have to worry about the Stasi finding the app on their phone regardless of the situation.
daggermoon@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 05:32
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Is the app foss?
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
on 02 Jul 07:34
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No, and even worse, its only for apple devices lmao. These kids are so unserious in their activism it would be funny if it werent so sad. If shit hits the fan, this stuff will go down instantly and im sure it has no backup plan for a Tor based or p2p service. Activists in the US should start using Briar. This situation is exactly what it was made for and people have to get their tech game up fast or they will be done for. Get a shitty 80$ android phone if you only have an iphone. Install a panic trigger app that will wipe the phone if you are in trouble.
Modeled after Waze but for ICE sightings, the app ensures user privacy by storing no personal data, making it impossible to trace reports back to individual users.
Which worries me, because if its closed source then thats a worthless promise and actually makes the app a perfect candidate for a honeypot or backdoor.
apple is the majority of the market, no? so if e.g. a company wanted to get a product out for a client asap, apple would be the market to aim for.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
on 02 Jul 10:53
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Turn of your capitalism brain ffs. This is not the place for companies and markets. If there is a financial interest then the app is worthless by design. iOS is not a trustable platform for anything security related so obviously you shouldnt use it for anything that concerns your physical safety. Dont forget, apple will always bend the knee to governments in the end.
Jaberw0cky@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 11:21
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I don’t know, don’t Apple have a reasonable track record of pushing back against governments? I personally have even less faith in the security of android based devices or Android phone manufacturers.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
on 02 Jul 11:49
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Apple have a reasonable track record of pushing back against governments
Only when it comes to individual consumer cases like terrorists or other crimes. When it comes to large scale political movements then they are very quick to lend authoritarian governments a hand, see for example their cooperation with the CCP to suppress the Hong Kong protests. But they have also always cooperated with police to some degree and this has only gotten worse.
There’s a widespread perception that Apple has a combative relationship with law enforcement after the company refused to help the FBI hack into the iPhone of the shooter in the 2015 San Bernardino terrorist attacks. But since then, it has ramped up collaboration with police through the conference and other meetings with agencies at both Cupertino HQ and its Elk Grove campus, as well as a variety of previously unreported projects helping cops use iPhones, Macs, Apple Vision Pro and CarPlay, the emails show. Most of these projects have not been announced publicly.
Apple declined to comment.
People just love believing in Apple for some weird reasons.
I am the biggest Apple hater and they are absolutely not immune from criticism, but they are generally a more private company. The CCP has their hands deep in every corporation on the planet so none of them are immune from that influence. Apple pushed back when the government demanded they dismantle encryption (Google doesn’t even offer this) for CSAM. They were also the first to disclose the government push notification collection information.
You see “market” and think capitalism. By market, I meant, market-share. More users of apple products than android. So if a developer wanted greater reach…
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 16:19
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Android has the greatest mobile OS market share by a massive margin.
But Apple users are far more likely to spend money on apps, making Apple the most lucrative target for mobile developers to target first.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 02 Jul 15:02
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im not a developer or a genius but I’m pretty sure you can write an app once using a framework like react native or whatever and then compile it for both android and ios and optionally release them along with the source code used to compile them
Tattorack@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 17:10
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Oh lord, where do I even start? It’s an entire shit show. And not the usual political shit show. A really scary one that’s truly heartbreaking. I don’t even really feel safe talking about it
That expression LOL
Obstruction of whatever cops do, OK.
But usually it has nothing to do with justice.
polyploy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 02 Jul 15:23
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Secret police would probably have an interest in lists of people downloading an app tracking their movements no? Particularly if it was downloaded to a mobile tracking device they carry with themselves at most times.
JandroDelSol@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 23:06
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if they can track those who are against them, it’s easier to eliminate dissidents
CascadianGiraffe@lemmy.world
on 03 Jul 02:52
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Using the app becomes obstruction or terrorism. People who do that will also get sent to camps.
It seems far fetched but it’s really not. After all, nobody would step to stop either of those things from happening.
ShortYetLongDogs@lemmy.zip
on 03 Jul 15:42
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Maybe they’re looking for pretense for more authoritarian action on digital services/internet. We already have a bill in process that opens the door for government censorship of the internet right? They could be priming the public to be ok with them stepping in to shut apps/sites down.
Atherel@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 02 Jul 12:02
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It’s going to be filled with false warnings from MAGA idiots and trolls…
Apparently the devs claim they can’t release it on Android because “There’s no way to be anonymous on the play store”, but it’s even more impossible to be anonymous on the platform they’ve released.
That’s how you know the developer is incredibly stupid and/or shady as hell- because they’ve never even heard of Fdroid?
Makes me think the app is a troll/trojan horse (not as in infection, trojan horse as in it has alterior motives)
The Drumpf crew “losing it” over the app just makes it more questionable. They love to create a firestorm so people talk about the thing “they definitely don’t want you to use!!” to get people to do things…
LadyButterfly@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 14:56
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Push notifications though GMS don’t use the device ID; they use a generated GCM registration ID that occasionally rotates. Who knows what Google uses internally to associate GCM reg IDs to users, but to overly state that it uses device IDs is simply not correct.
I’m not suggesting push notifications are inherently secure because it’s impossible to make that determination from the outside. But their assessment is incorrect and the same privacy concerns apply to Apple.
It would take significantly more mental energy on the part of the user but it would be far safer (which is extremely important in this specific case, as the dev agrees) to distribute through F-Droid and then use some other UnifiedPush implementation, as many Android apps already do. Anyone using this app is painting a huge target on their backs for the current authoritarian state.
threaded - newest
This app sounds exceedingly useful to me.
Looking at the reviews, ignoring the mega hats, it seems part of the app does not work from time to time
It sounds like a honeypot to me. But I would be happy to be proven wrong.
Edit: and it’s gone?
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/fff47b36-9d78-4c6f-97c2-8bf11b3dfff3.jpeg">
It’s not gone, it’s just currently not available in your country or region.
Sweet. I appreciate that their reaction has Streisand-effected this app into my awareness.
Anyone have a link to the app/website? I’d like to follow some among honing my horn and warning folks.
www.iceblock.app
Is this only on Apple? Kind of lame.
It is only for iOS. I haven’t found a similar app for Android.
Quote from some other place people were discussing it. Unfortunately no source on it.
EDIT: www.iceblock.app/android
There are other stores besides the playstore…
Thanks, but I’m not the developer of the app so that’s not really relevant for me.
i don’t think this other commenter was calling you out. i think they were just bringing up a point of discussion that’s relevant to the point you brought up
It’s not about the store, it’s about the notification.
As mentioned in the Time article:
Ntfy.sh
There are ways around that
Good old firebase. Notifications are not entirely device local on android, or something like that.
You don’t need a user account or password to receive a push notification.
You just need to have the app installed. The app can be configured by the developer to receive push notifications.
And the developer needs a device ID for that. Which is their objection: www.iceblock.app/android
How do you suppose APNS knows which device to deliver the notification to?
Something that… links it to the device? Like, a unique ID that Apple can identify?
It sounds like he thinks HE has to store this information, which is simply incorrect. It will obviously be stored by Google in Firebase, and by Apple wherever that gets stored, but HE does not have to store it.
I write apps for a living. I have users subscribe and unsubscribe to channels, and at no point is there a user account with password involved in either iOS or Android. If you want the memory of which channels they have subscribed to to persist across uninstall/reinstalls or different devices, then yes, but for an app like this you don’t need to persist those settings.
At any point the government could subpoena who’s received pushes (or at least, who’s registered to) from both Google and Apple.
I’m not the developer, but I do also write app backends for a living so I know there is some nuance that you’re skipping over in your response. But if you have a way to do this completely anonymous on android I’d suggest offering help to the developer who made this.
APNS tokens are linked to the app install and renew on a certain timeline. Already making them not exactly the same as a device identifier.
No, you’re right, GOOGLE will take the device identifier, but him talking about how he would need to store it, and especially for channels where he talks about user names and passwords really makes me think that he thinks he personally has to do it, with his own backend storing it. (edit: The point is, that he doesn’t HAVE to do it this way. You can, and it gives you more control, but you can let Google do it all. It’s never anonymous with anyone though.)
Apple knows which devices have the app installed. They would be able to link that back to the device if it was demanded, even if it is a bit more obscured.
Just figured I’d add Apples own documentation as well
…apple.com/…/registering-your-app-with-apns
Now GrapheneOS the privacy based Android OS is calling them out
bsky.app/profile/grapheneos.org/…/3lt2prfb2vk2r
He really must be thinking just about himself, and not that Apple had the info.
Its totally possible to send notification without having user account, see firebase.
There is side loading, they can just release it on GitHub.
That’s not how push notifications on android work.
That doesn’t have anything to do with how you install the app.
It has to do with receiving notifications from the app in a privacy-preserving way. Unless the app is running with a server connection 24/7 (RIP battery life) you need to rely on the OS to deliver notifications.
You don’t, there’s privacy respecting ways of delivering notifications in android.
Also, a 24/7 connection to a server isn’t nearly as bad as you might think.
The connection isn’t active the whole time, it only uses any significant amount of battery if there’s actually data being sent or received. You likely already have quite a few of them anyway, how do you think systems normally listen for push notifications?
Besides all that, I read in other comments that the privacy issue was the device id firebase needs. Obviously apple also needs some kind of device id, otherwise how do they know where the notifications are going?
Did some searching, yup apple also needs a unique identifier:
From …apple.com/…/setting-up-a-remote-notification-ser…
Apple notification identifiers are unique to an app install and regularly change though, so it’s hardly a device identifier.
fdroid?
It’s 1000% possible to use android apps without involving Google in any way.
Edited for further clarification. It’s not about Google, it’s about what Android needs to receive notifications: www.iceblock.app/android
It’s really hard for me to understand how iOS is better in this sense. The only way to get this app is via the app store and the ONLY way to use the app store is be registering yourself with apple. Seems to me that you are tracked either way.
IMHO the devs probably wrote this in Swift and just don’t have experience working with android. Whole thing/story is just off IMO.
I’m really just sceptical about the whole thing being closed source really.
It’s important to buy devices that respect your privacy.
They could try not being brown shirts. Problem solved.
I love the quote about how it is putting federal agents in danger…and I sort of think that they are doing that themselves.
which is great for necessitating the need to give absolute militant power to police forces. It’s like… the PR of him having a ‘meltdown’ is for a reason or something.
PR for who? Who is on the fence about ICE?
Probably lots of people in red states. Farmers for instance, people who generally buy the Republican bullshit, but may personally rely heavily on immigrant workers. ICE puts them in a really tough position.
I have experienced some recent schadenfreude with farmers who no longer have workers to harvest because ICE scared them away.
You’ve made a potential error in underestimating just how horrible some peoples’ lives are and how filled with hatred they are over that fact. This is really what drives so much of politics in the world–disgruntled people with no future who choose to hate others who have nothing to do with it.
What fact? People’s lives are horrible BECAUSE of ICE. They’re so horrible that I considered that nobody would be “on the fence” because either you drank the Fear-Of-Crime Kool-Aid or you are horrified at what ICE agents are doing to children and poor people. The entire reason there are people who don’t think ICE needs to be abolished right now is because Fox News and other right-wing grifters have pumped out propaganda making it look like there is a “crime wave” like it’s the Reagan Era, and people living in the Suburbs not knowing what the outside world is like. Not only do they choose to portray a crime wave, they have to do it, because otherwise people would see their president as the power-hungry maniac he is rather than a savior of order. No riot is actually making people miserable, only the police-reported, sensationalist coverage of protests.
That’s just the American Suburbs. I hope American states can secede to change this. Meanwhile, in Vietnam, there is a high-speed rail being built. This is not driven by disgruntled people, people with no future, or people who choose not to hate others who have nothing to do with it. Neither is Iran defending itself from an imperialist regime, nor Australia having their left-wing Labour party completely outdo the right-wing Liberal party. America is the villain here.
Good, those agents are playing a dangerous game and you should know if you play with fire your going get burned. Its a matter of time before they try to kidnap the wrong person, and that person decides its better to die in America then it is to go to a camp then deported.
Is it apple only? Would love it on my droid if it’s available.
Looks like just Apple now: apps.apple.com/us/app/iceblock/id6741939020
Yep, and that will be it’s downfall, because Apple will take it down and there’s no way to install it without their rubber stamp.
Why can’t he do that, Pammy?
Gotta say Aaron is a bold motherfucker.
Why can’t he? She literally says why not in the text you copied and pasted lol
Yes, but that statement also contains over 50% lies by volume
Does her word override the first amendment?
There aren’t many exceptions, and what’s happening on a public street generally isn’t one of them.
Doxxing federal agents and putting their lives in danger is a crime. The first amendment doesn’t give you the right to do that without repercussions.
“the First Amendment protects the right to gather information about what public officials do on public property.” Smith v. City of Cumming, 212 F. 3d 1332, 1333 (11th Cir. 2000).
Sure, you can gather that information. You can’t then put it out there publicly to help people break the law, and to put federal law enforcement employees lives in danger.
Are you a lawyer? What law are you citing?
Obstruction of justice, aiding and abetting, to name a few.
.
I want you to explain to me how when Google does it (allowing anyone with an app to report a speed trap - you know where law enforcement is present) it’s legal but when some random developer who’s not a multi-million dollar Corp does it, it’s illegal and obstruction.
I’ll wait for your list of case law.
Waze and Google maps don’t let you report them for the purpose of helping illegal immigrants avoid law enforcement, or to tell people where to attack.
In all actuality I believe the point of being able to report a speed trap is to allow people to avoid getting caught breaking the law which amounts to the same thing.
Google maps and Waze can absolutely be used to show where to attack law enforcement. They can also be used to avoid law enforcement. What you’re saying is that you feel like the intention of the app is to break the law in some way but you’ve been given a similar app that does basically the same thing and you back up nothing or what you’ve said with documented case law or even the laws you think this app is breaking. Cool. Good talk.
The main difference is that speed traps and cameras etc are deterrents. They’re supposed to make people slow down, that’s the point of signposting them. Knowing where they are makes people slow down. Their existence is to try and stop people from breaking the law.
Knowing where ICE agents are doesn’t stop people from being in the country illegally.
And yes, again, intent matters. No matter how cute people think they’re being by pretending it’s not meant for X, not everyone is stupid and oblivious enough to fall for it.
There’s one major problem with what you’re saying. It’s that ICE is actively jailing people without giving them due process. As an entity it is assuming guilt which is in direct conflict with the constitution. Because it’s violating the rights of the people it is no longer a government agency acting for the people, and because it’s actively breaking the law it is not protected. If you can’t understand that without due process they can and possibly will arrest you and deport you somewhere regardless of your constitutional right to reside in the US then you are in fact missing the main point of this app and there’s a reason people are down-voting you.
Also, you’re making a lot of assumptions about what the app is for, and still posit no actual proof of your position. You have made an assumption here and when confronted about your opinion based on that assumption you have continued to double down instead of even considering the alternatives.
And speed traps aren’t intended to be a detterant. I don’t know why you think that’s the case but in fact they are set up specifically to catch speeders. The deterrence is a bonus. But a lot of police departments make money for their municipality via speeding tickets. So don’t try to play like we can just ignore this so you can feel like you’ve won.
Can you prove that people are breaking the law by the mere collection and existence of this data?
How about those Flock ALPR cameras showing up everywhere? Can we be sure the collected data is being used in accordance with the law?
They’re not just collecting it though, that’s the point - they’re publishing it on an app that is specifically made to help people evade law enforcement and to target violence at law enforcement.
They’re not advocating violence, just reporting a fact. (A hammer is a tool, but also a murder weapon) But you do understand the power asymmetry of an unaccountable police force, right? And just how dangerous this is to civil society? There have been multiple accounts of excessive and incorrect deportations by ICE, with no visible effort to attempt to correct those problems. People are now using the meager tools we have left to try to enforce accountability, before there is only one last tool in the toolbox.
lol no one believes that, not even you.
How are they “unaccountable”, and how is that even relevant?
Yes, we should follow the laws like our government officials and police always do. Give me a fucking break lmao.
You can choose to break the law if you want, but you can’t then cry about it if/when you get caught. This guy can make his ICE-tracking app, but he has to live with the repercussions.
Nobody is crying about getting arrested. The fascists are arresting anyone they please without due process. The people risking their safety know the risks. ICE and the police are breaking the law by obscuring their faces and badge numbers, but you’re complaining about working class folks breaking laws written by the ruling class. Laws that they constantly ignore.
Anyone, or just those in the country illegally? Also law enforcement officers aren’t “fascists” just because they’re LEOs.
Anyone. Jesus christ have you not been watching the news? There have been countless American citizens detained by ICE because they don’t know, or care, what your legal status is when they arrest you. They just grab Anyone.
You asleep or something?
Multiple natural born citizens have been kidnapped by ICE. Surely you’ve heard of that under your rock by now.
“Kidnapped” lol. When someone is arrested for murder are they “kidnapped”?
So you ignored every word of my comment to just say whatever idiotic thought popped into your head. Cool
Yes. When unidentified masked thugs who are not even in a coherent uniform show up to start beating in citizens and throw them into a van, that’s just abduction.
How are the various NATURAL BORN CITIZENS who’ve been kidnapped in any way in violation of immigration law? Explain that one to me? The people with green cards who’ve been trafficked out of the country despite having all the paperwork saying they can be there?
You’re falsely claiming these people are being accused of a crime, but there isn’t one to accuse them of. That’s abduction.
Showing the current location of [what is supposed to be] a public servant in a public location acting publicly is not doxxing.
The purpose of the app is to help illegal immigrants evade arrest, and to help “activists” assault and impede ICE. All illegal things.
The app merely informs of locations, you choosing to add all that bullshit to it is your own hangup. Citizens who don’t want to be abducted by power tripping unidentified masked men - who’ve already been south to be violent and aggressive to random people regardless of status are also avoiding those areas. That’s not illegal.
ICE are the ones breaking the law.
No, no, no. They painted the targets on themselves.
This app is telling people where to avoid. Not where to go.
All of a sudden, so many things are “not protected speech”. I find it tempting to be as ignorant as a Republican, but I’d certainly be caught off guard in that case.
Seems like the kind of thing a defederated system would be good for…
If you mean something on fediverse: while that would be hard to take down or block, it’s far from anonymous
fediverse over Tor?
maybe base it on Briar
Yeah wasn’t thinking anonymity, but keeping something running and making it hard to take down.
*federated
decentralized + federated = defederated
Could it be any more clear? /s
Decentrated?
Defenestrated
I’m still waiting for a day to use this word in real life
😂 I think I was tired
criminals dont like being tracked
“[the app] basically paints a target on federal law enforcement officers’ backs”
When it comes to painting targets on backs, better them then innocent civilians.
Lol.
R’s have not only painted targets, they’ve made ads, and joked about killing civilians and anyone other than MAGAts
rollingstone.com/…/guns-republican-primary-campai…
www.indy100.com/…/eric-greitens-campaign-ad-gun
independent.co.uk/…/south-carolina-governor-henry…
Edit: and for the record, Blake Masters is a piece of shit buddy of both elon and Vance and they are all tied together in their hate for democracy and love of Curtis Yarvin and the plot to destroy western civilization. (Source: vanityfair.com/…/inside-the-new-right-where-peter…)
Fuck Apple!
How do they measure the difference between partial and full meltdowns?
it’s probably rated based on how dark his bronzer is that day.
if they’re worried about being tracked maybe they could do the easiest thing in the world which is not being complete shitheads?
Ice and snowflakes always seem to go so well with one another.
Shouldn’t be an app. It should be a site accessible using vpn and private browsing with an appropriate browser. Nobody should have to worry about the Stasi finding the app on their phone regardless of the situation.
While this is true, most people are not so tech savvy, maybe giving an option to mask app Icon to user choice can help it hide better.
While I agree, in this particular case I think it’s a good idea.
going to a website (not tech savvy enough for this) vs going to the settings on an app and select a new icon (yay anyone can do it)
Can’t it be both?
Websites don’t support push notifications in a way that normies understand. They’re also generally unreliable. And these are time-sensitive matters.
I would imagine this is very similar to marking a cop on Waze and completely legal which is why they are throwing a hissy fit.
Is the app foss?
No, and even worse, its only for apple devices lmao. These kids are so unserious in their activism it would be funny if it werent so sad. If shit hits the fan, this stuff will go down instantly and im sure it has no backup plan for a Tor based or p2p service. Activists in the US should start using Briar. This situation is exactly what it was made for and people have to get their tech game up fast or they will be done for. Get a shitty 80$ android phone if you only have an iphone. Install a panic trigger app that will wipe the phone if you are in trouble.
On ICEBlocks website it says:
Which worries me, because if its closed source then thats a worthless promise and actually makes the app a perfect candidate for a honeypot or backdoor.
apple is the majority of the market, no? so if e.g. a company wanted to get a product out for a client asap, apple would be the market to aim for.
Turn of your capitalism brain ffs. This is not the place for companies and markets. If there is a financial interest then the app is worthless by design. iOS is not a trustable platform for anything security related so obviously you shouldnt use it for anything that concerns your physical safety. Dont forget, apple will always bend the knee to governments in the end.
I don’t know, don’t Apple have a reasonable track record of pushing back against governments? I personally have even less faith in the security of android based devices or Android phone manufacturers.
Only when it comes to individual consumer cases like terrorists or other crimes. When it comes to large scale political movements then they are very quick to lend authoritarian governments a hand, see for example their cooperation with the CCP to suppress the Hong Kong protests. But they have also always cooperated with police to some degree and this has only gotten worse.
Forbes for the lack of a better source: forbes.com/…/apple-sells-privacy-to-consumers-but…
People just love believing in Apple for some weird reasons.
I am the biggest Apple hater and they are absolutely not immune from criticism, but they are generally a more private company. The CCP has their hands deep in every corporation on the planet so none of them are immune from that influence. Apple pushed back when the government demanded they dismantle encryption (Google doesn’t even offer this) for CSAM. They were also the first to disclose the government push notification collection information.
You see “market” and think capitalism. By market, I meant, market-share. More users of apple products than android. So if a developer wanted greater reach…
Android has the greatest mobile OS market share by a massive margin.
But Apple users are far more likely to spend money on apps, making Apple the most lucrative target for mobile developers to target first.
Not in the US, which is really the only place this app is applicable at the moment.
It’s my understanding this is true globally, but not for the US, where Apple has ~60% share.
(This app should absolutely be cross-platform though)
Fair point. I neglected to consider that we are talking about an app specifically for Americans.
.
im not a developer or a genius but I’m pretty sure you can write an app once using a framework like react native or whatever and then compile it for both android and ios and optionally release them along with the source code used to compile them
Not even close.
In the US it’s a very small majority.
I'm happy they're scared.
dont they have site as well, just incase they decide to shut the apps.
I love how the Streisand Effect works. They just made this app the hottest thing out there.
It’s closed source, and the build and publishing pipeline isn’t transparent.
For me that makes this no different than a potential ICE honey pot
which is exactly what this whole ‘meltdown’ frame for the pr hints at. republicans know how to use publicity stunts to get what they want.
can’t even find “Joshua Aaron” on linked in or github. feels a little sus. my moneys on honey pot
Has to be shit is glowing
Haven’t followed it much (EU), can you elaborate who did what and what can be done potentially?
Oh lord, where do I even start? It’s an entire shit show. And not the usual political shit show. A really scary one that’s truly heartbreaking. I don’t even really feel safe talking about it
the honey pot for what? people who don’t like ice? that makes no sense
They could argue that attempting to track ICE is illegal, and all those using the app are to be arrested and tried for their crimes.
They already are
They’re using the cops’ favorite and extremely generic catch-all crime: “obstruction of justice”.
That expression LOL
Obstruction of whatever cops do, OK.
But usually it has nothing to do with justice.
Secret police would probably have an interest in lists of people downloading an app tracking their movements no? Particularly if it was downloaded to a mobile tracking device they carry with themselves at most times.
no I honestly don’t know how this would help them
if they can track those who are against them, it’s easier to eliminate dissidents
Using the app becomes obstruction or terrorism. People who do that will also get sent to camps.
It seems far fetched but it’s really not. After all, nobody would step to stop either of those things from happening.
Maybe they’re looking for pretense for more authoritarian action on digital services/internet. We already have a bill in process that opens the door for government censorship of the internet right? They could be priming the public to be ok with them stepping in to shut apps/sites down.
It’s going to be filled with false warnings from MAGA idiots and trolls…
Was curious so Iooked up the app’s site.
Apparently the devs claim they can’t release it on Android because “There’s no way to be anonymous on the play store”, but it’s even more impossible to be anonymous on the platform they’ve released. That’s how you know the developer is incredibly stupid and/or shady as hell- because they’ve never even heard of Fdroid?
Makes me think the app is a troll/trojan horse (not as in infection, trojan horse as in it has alterior motives)
The Drumpf crew “losing it” over the app just makes it more questionable. They love to create a firestorm so people talk about the thing “they definitely don’t want you to use!!” to get people to do things…
This is a really good comment
Thanks. Remember to always question everything. Especially when that -something- sounds like BS.
they mentioned that its because push notifications require device id and that would make it easy to be tracked if aubpoenaed.
https://bsky.app/profile/iceblock.app/post/3lmzykc7rb42d
edit: for the record i don't agree; i'm just saying what they said on bsky
Interesting, especially with GrapheneOS people shooting it down immediately to call them out on their baloney.
Push notifications though GMS don’t use the device ID; they use a generated GCM registration ID that occasionally rotates. Who knows what Google uses internally to associate GCM reg IDs to users, but to overly state that it uses device IDs is simply not correct.
I’m not suggesting push notifications are inherently secure because it’s impossible to make that determination from the outside. But their assessment is incorrect and the same privacy concerns apply to Apple.
I’m pretty certain push notifications have been shown to be grossly insecure actually…
I’m not sure if this guy is just dumb or it’s a honeypot.
As mentioned elsewhere, they don’t use device ID
Android is the only platform that supports alternative push methods
Apple knows everyone who downloads this app, which is subject to subpoena
The gov has been collecting push notification data from both Apple and Google for a long time. It would be as simple as knowing when notifications went out and then comparing timestamps to figure out who is using the app.
The app is closed-source
It would take significantly more mental energy on the part of the user but it would be far safer (which is extremely important in this specific case, as the dev agrees) to distribute through F-Droid and then use some other UnifiedPush implementation, as many Android apps already do. Anyone using this app is painting a huge target on their backs for the current authoritarian state.
Aurora store.
I was quoting them but you’re right-or Fdroid ofc
This gives honeypot vibes. IOS only with no way to access via browser?
Twenty years ago tracking armed thugs in ski masks would have been called a public service.
Lets build more ICE-tracking apps