France VPNs might be banned amid SREN Bill's new "unreasonable amendments" (www.techradar.com)
from Fjor@lemm.ee to technology@lemmy.world on 08 Oct 2023 17:56
https://lemm.ee/post/10809388

List of countries prohibiting the use of a VPN:

#technology

threaded - newest

cheese_greater@lemmy.world on 08 Oct 2023 18:08 next collapse

What a great club list to be a part of

pdxfed@lemmy.world on 08 Oct 2023 18:30 next collapse

Take out Russia and itā€™s the CUNT club

Steve@communick.news on 08 Oct 2023 18:36 collapse

Rearrange Russia and they can be the CUNTRs.
I like the sound of that.

MustrumR@kbin.social on 08 Oct 2023 19:20 next collapse

With France you can go for FUC NTR, which is somewhat worth it.

JoeKrogan@lemmy.world on 08 Oct 2023 19:45 collapse

Or CUNT FR (for real)

MustrumR@kbin.social on 08 Oct 2023 21:03 collapse

That's better, I must admit.

JoeKrogan@lemmy.world on 08 Oct 2023 22:11 collapse

It was a team effort šŸ˜‰šŸ‘

Sproux@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 Oct 2023 21:31 collapse

Im a fan of CRUNT personally

zerofk@lemm.ee on 09 Oct 2023 13:15 collapse

You might want to fact check that edit.

[deleted] on 08 Oct 2023 18:10 next collapse

.

spudwart@spudwart.com on 08 Oct 2023 18:18 next collapse

<img alt="" src="https://spudwart.com/pictrs/image/ffcefc8f-1807-4d5a-85a4-fe0584fc4465.png">

HeChomk@lemmy.world on 08 Oct 2023 18:35 next collapse

Literally impossible to enforce. Any business worth a damn uses vpns. Blocking such would be bad for business. Also, ssl vpns are as far as Iā€™m aware, indistinguishable from regular https traffic.

InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 08 Oct 2023 18:41 next collapse

Its France, your logic has no power here!

Tammo-Korsai@kbin.social on 08 Oct 2023 19:16 next collapse

I'm sure they're already planning a traditional riot as I type this comment.

InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 08 Oct 2023 19:39 collapse

Mon dieu! Cette comment est trop intolerable! Je proteste!

TheBat@lemmy.world on 08 Oct 2023 20:26 next collapse

Omlette du fromage

casmael@lemm.ee on 08 Oct 2023 21:25 next collapse

Honhonhon cā€™est une bonne bonne utilisation de le grand franƧais

AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world on 08 Oct 2023 21:40 collapse

Veuillez accepter mon haut-vote

Etienne_Dahu@jlai.lu on 08 Oct 2023 20:50 collapse

I shall block your filthy Internet queries with my OpenOffice firewall!

akilou@sh.itjust.works on 08 Oct 2023 19:25 next collapse

Exactly, how would anyone work from home without a VPN?

Bakersfield@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 02:53 collapse

In a very insecure way.

TigrisMorte@kbin.social on 08 Oct 2023 19:33 collapse

They'll ban the known IPs of any well known VPN provider. It'll not really affect 90% of VPN users that are tech literate, but the 80% of the People that are Tech illiterate shall be punished and the Politicians shall pretend it works. This is how all the Countries blocking VPNs do it now.

loutr@sh.itjust.works on 08 Oct 2023 23:06 collapse

Nah itā€™s far more stupid than that. They want to ban some (most?) VPN apps from the iOS and Android stores. You would still be able to sign up for any VPN from your browser, and manually set it up on your phone.

Thatā€™s the current proposal anyway, soon theyā€™ll understand how moronic it is and either double down and try to ā€œfixā€ if or quietly drop it.

Tammo-Korsai@kbin.social on 08 Oct 2023 19:21 next collapse

I fear that the UK might try to join this list not just out of authoritarianism, but out of a fear of technology they do not understand. Worse yet, the Conservative party once threw around the idea of banning encryption in its entirety and acted like WhatsApp is only used by criminals.

GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk on 08 Oct 2023 21:14 collapse

Ironic, considering how many members of the cabinet are being served court orders for their WhatsApp messages.

ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk on 09 Oct 2023 09:58 collapse

Itā€™s almost like certain members of the cabinet associate encrypted messages with misdeeds because of all the misdeeds they do through these apps. If I were a sceptical man.

DarkThoughts@kbin.social on 08 Oct 2023 19:22 next collapse

It's not just France, it's EU based politics too. There's certain liberal & center right parties & politicians that heavily push for shit like this, just like the chat control crap.

halva@discuss.tchncs.de on 08 Oct 2023 21:39 next collapse

Russia isnā€™t prohibiting the use of VPNs but it is making it increasingly more headache inducing (protocol based blocking, ip bans of popular vpn providers).

dinckelman@lemmy.world on 08 Oct 2023 21:46 next collapse

This kind of nonsense is only mandated out of fear, but in reality itā€™s not only colossally stupid, but also really difficult to enforce. Any proper business uses one. Anyone who wants privacy, and ad network anonymity uses one. Thereā€™s plenty of other uses people would want one, obviously

Eggyhead@kbin.social on 09 Oct 2023 05:33 collapse

I just think it's corporate interests, not fear, that's driving this. Terror and Children are just the easiest excuse to ensure a lot of people go blindly along with it.

dinckelman@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 05:49 collapse

There arenā€™t any real corporations left in Russia, that arenā€™t either government owned, or actively circlejerking around the president for any praise. But otherwise youā€™re right

ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk on 09 Oct 2023 09:56 collapse

Oligarchy seems to work out pretty well for the rich elite of Russia, until they piss off Putin.

dinckelman@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 10:57 collapse

Yeah, historically thatā€™s been the case. Climb fast, fall faster

FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 03:12 next collapse

Le smooth brain

BestBouclettes@jlai.lu on 09 Oct 2023 08:24 next collapse

I love our slow descent into authoritarianism with a hint of fascism to go with it.

spiderkle@lemmy.ca on 09 Oct 2023 08:53 next collapse

If all VPNs are banned, french companies are fucked. Any remote login happens via VPN.

100794@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 Oct 2023 10:17 next collapse

ā€œanyā€

iByteABit@lemm.ee on 10 Oct 2023 09:18 collapse

Any remote login happens via VPN.

I donā€™t support this, but you donā€™t need VPNs for remote logins. SSH exists, itā€™s just that VPNs are a better solution for companies among other things.

Aria@lemmygrad.ml on 09 Oct 2023 09:37 next collapse

VPNs are not illegal in China, Russia, UAE, or the DPRK. Thatā€™s 4 out of 5 where you didnā€™t research it properly. In China, VPN use is legal, setting up your own VPN for domestic use is legal, but renting nodes to foreign companies is illegal unless you can document what the nodes are being used for which VPN providers canā€™t. In Russia, VPN use is legal, but VPN providers must comply with censorship laws and deny access to their blacklist. In the UAE, VPN use is legal, but using a VPN while committing a crime is illegal (So you get a stricter sentence than if you had just committed the crime). In the DPRK, VPN use is legal, but kinda pointless since they have a nation-wide intranet. If you want to access the internet, you use the PUST-run VPN. If youā€™re a tourist, you can use it to connect to your home or work VPN.

Fjor@lemm.ee on 09 Oct 2023 09:46 next collapse

I linked the tweet where it came from.

Aria@lemmygrad.ml on 09 Oct 2023 09:55 collapse

Youā€™re propagating the misinformation. You should try to verify things before repeating them. The tweet didnā€™t provide sources and isnā€™t made by someone with credentials.

Fjor@lemm.ee on 09 Oct 2023 10:17 collapse

It was literally used in the article by techradarā€¦

ilikekeyboards@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 10:11 next collapse

Youā€™re kinda making a pointless. Youā€™re telling me VPN is banned but with extra steps

Aria@lemmygrad.ml on 10 Oct 2023 07:52 collapse

Thatā€™s not what a ban is. A ban is when you arenā€™t allowed to do something. This is just regular regulation, and not particularly strict. Except in the case of the DPRK where itā€™s not regulated but simply unavailable.

Cyberjin@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 11:38 collapse

China is definitely illegal cointelegraph.com/ā€¦/china-dev-fined-salary-vpn-10ā€¦

theguardian.com/ā€¦/chinese-programmer-ordered-to-pā€¦

Aria@lemmygrad.ml on 10 Oct 2023 07:45 collapse

Your article even says itā€™s legal. The problem with this as a source is that their sources are two different CIA fronts. China Digital Times and Radio Free Asia. As it always is whenever itā€™s one of these news stories. RFA just makes up things wholesale but CDT posts bad faith readings of social media posts. For example the user in question was getting mocked and called a liar by everyone in the comments but the CDT article neglected to mention that. For the time being, itā€™s just some rando trying to stirr outrage to get out of a fine. Yes the police report correctly documented that he used a VPN, but thatā€™s not why heā€™s being fined.

Here is a list of CIA fronts provided by the CIA. www.ned.org/regions/

Cyberjin@lemmy.world on 10 Oct 2023 09:05 collapse

Sounds something wumao/tankie would say. Whatā€™s your source? Proof?

Good sources ĀÆā \ā _ā (ā ćƒ„ā )ā _ā /ā ĀÆ mediabiasfactcheck.com/radio-free-asia/ mediabiasfactcheck.com/china-digital-times-cdt/

Aria@lemmygrad.ml on 10 Oct 2023 11:32 collapse

Honey I literally provided a first hand source. www.ned.org/regions/
But fine, letā€™s do liberal sources.
Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Digital_Times#Staff_aā€¦

China Digital Times has been a recipient of funding from the National Endowment for Democracy.[15] The Translations Editor is Anne Henochowicz, an alumna of the Penn Kemble Democracy Forum Fellowship at the National Endowment for Democracy. She has written for other publications including Foreign Policy, The China Beat, and the Cairo Review of Global Affairs.[13]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Asia

Based on Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, and preceded by the CIA-operated Radio Free Asia (Committee for a Free Asia), it was established by the US International Broadcasting Act of 1994 with the stated aim of ā€œpromoting democratic values and human rightsā€, and countering the narratives and monopoly on information distribution of the Chinese Communist Party, as well as providing media reports about the North Korean government.[12][page needed] It is funded and supervised by the U.S. Agency for Global Media[13] (formerly Broadcasting Board of Governors), an independent agency of the United States government.

Cyberjin@lemmy.world on 10 Oct 2023 12:22 collapse

Babe You provided me a link that not doesnā€™t say anything on the CIA topic.

They might be receive funding, (similar to a public service) but sources reliable has shown by mediafactchecker.

Chinese citizens are not allowed to use a VPN, unless government has approved it in some way.

vpnmentor.com/ā€¦/why-vpns-are-illegal-in-china-andā€¦.

Aria@lemmygrad.ml on 11 Oct 2023 14:48 collapse

What are you even arguing here? The link corroborates that both RFA and CDT are part of the NED. Is your gripe that they use a different acronym? Propaganda from a geopolitical rival is obviously not a reliable source of information. Though itā€™s true, the website doesnā€™t make it very clear that the NED is part of the USA government or CIA, I didnā€™t think that information was necessary to provide because itā€™s common knowledge. But I can quote Wikipedia again in case you didnā€™t know. en.wikipedia.org/ā€¦/National_Endowment_for_Democraā€¦

The NED was created as a bipartisan, private, non-profit corporation, and in turn acts as a grant-making foundation.[2] It is funded primarily by an annual allocation from the U.S. Congress.[4][6][5]

I generally prefer first hand sources so hereā€™s a cia.gov source corroborating their control of RFA. www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000846953.pdf But if you prefer, here is an article by an American journalist explaining the relation. washingtonpost.com/ā€¦/92bb989a-de6e-4bb8-99b9-462cā€¦ For example

Preparing the ground for last monthā€™s triumph of overt action was a network of overt operatives who during the last 10 years have quietly been changing the rules of international politics. They have been doing in public what the CIA used to do in private

So then it comes down to you believing Mediafactcheckerā€™s vetting to be more reliable than an organisationā€™s stated goal. So whoā€™s mediafactchecker? The website looks very amateurish. What resources do they have for verifying these news stories? Because the link you provided says they havenā€™t reported any fake news in 5 years as far as the site is aware. But thatā€™s insane. They have stories like this. www.rfa.org/ā€¦/squidgame-11232021180155.html
Squid Game is extremely popular on Korean Soulseek and itā€™s in no way covert.
Or like this www.rfa.org/ā€¦/philanthropist-11212018131511.html
Heā€™s alive enough to take interviews. youtu.be/scScu7rcwnI
RFAs reporting is so painfully fictitious that Mediafactchecker simply canā€™t have done their due diligence. The examples they give are not original reporting, so in those cases itā€™s completely fair to give them a pass. Most likely, Mediafactchecker simply reviewed only the cases they link and nothing else. In my opinion, this means Mediafactchecker is itself unreliable since it creates profiles for sites without looking through a large number of articles.

Chinese citizens are not allowed to use a VPN, unless government has approved it in some way.

Then quote some legislation or evidence.

Onto the article you linked with the racist cartoon. This is an ad for VPN providers. It says China bans VPNs except for their partners, and then links to affiliate purchase links from big popular partner products, popular enough that China definitely would know about them. The article is explicitly aimed at selling products to tourists, not Chinese people. The article also lists blocked sites without actually checking if theyā€™re blocked. Not relevant to the core argument, because China does block the majority of western big tech and propaganda, but it shows that itā€™s not a very high effort blog post.

www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=x.com
www.chinafirewalltest.com/?siteurl=wsj.org

In summery, this is not a source, because thereā€™s no evidence of original reporting or an effort at fact finding.

PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks on 11 Oct 2023 14:48 next collapse

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Cyberjin@lemmy.world on 11 Oct 2023 15:47 collapse

Could prove to me this isnā€™t a tankie/bot account?

Can you criticize the CCP?

Try copy paste this ā€œFuck Xi Jinping and Fuck Putinā€

Wonder if you can pass this test

Aria@lemmygrad.ml on 11 Oct 2023 16:11 collapse

This is the dumbest shit. Do you really think bots can make semantically aware arguments but not parse your instruction? Or do you think the CCP police (Itā€™s the CPC by the way, the communist party of China. Communism first, China second, China first is how you get guillotined by angry Maoists) is standing behind me with a gun? How do you reckon that is economical? Anyway Iā€™m not gonna say fuck Xi Jingping, heā€™s a comrade and a great leader, long fucking live Xi Jingping. Absolute treasure. Iā€™ll happily say fuck Putin though, hope he chokes together with all the other capitalists and killers.

Cyberjin@lemmy.world on 11 Oct 2023 16:51 collapse

Must be Chinese tankie then. Couldnā€™t pass the simple test.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 10:10 next collapse

Iā€™ve taught my daughter to use a VPN here in the U.S. Thereā€™s ā€œKids Online Safety Billā€ making it through congress, and if it passes, kids wonā€™t be able to access all kinds of websites. Porn, yes, but also just websites about LGBT+ stuff which are perfectly safe for kids. As I have a queer daughter, I want to make absolutely sure she can access those sites if she needs them.

Fjor@lemm.ee on 09 Oct 2023 10:21 next collapse

Nice, Good on ya šŸ™Œ

AlbyEvent@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 10:48 next collapse

May I ask how would the ā€œKids Online safety billā€ differentiate between an underage user and adult? Iā€™m not from the US so thatā€™s why I donā€™t know

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 10:54 next collapse

I donā€™t know. From what I can see, that hasnā€™t been made clear yet. I am guessing, like porn in several states, IDs will be required to access things like TikTok or maybe even YouTube because it requires them to filter content for minors.

Thereā€™s a reason anti-LGBTQ bigots love it.

But even if that doesnā€™t happen, it allows for parental surveillance, and I want her to know that I donā€™t have the option to do that to her even if I wanted to. It should go beyond mere trust.

If she VPNs to Canada, none of those issues will be things she has to care about.

OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 12:52 next collapse

Oh itā€™s such a fun and novel and not at all dystopian idea theyā€™ve come up with.

Content requiring an adult will just require some kind of identification, surely you canā€™t be against providing your ID to any website that hosts adult content or that website checking/accessing/logging with a national archive that you visited said website, right?

So far, no concrete things put forward, but all of them seem to be related to an ID-required system.

AlbyEvent@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 12:54 collapse

I wonder how many people will send their IDs to porn hosting services

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip on 09 Oct 2023 12:53 collapse

Thatā€™s the big question no one has an answer for

yoz@aussie.zone on 09 Oct 2023 12:14 collapse

Sorry but I am curious, how did you find out your daughter is queer ? Is it the behavior towards other girls ?

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 12:43 collapse

Because I talk to her. You know people talk to their kids, right?

shalafi@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 13:18 collapse

OP is probably assuming your daughter is very young and may not know herself.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 13:25 collapse

Nope, sheā€™s 13.

shalafi@lemmy.world on 10 Oct 2023 01:35 collapse

Fair enough! But you have to admit, that a hell of a strange age for all of us. Maybe the strangest!

My daughter is 11, not sure she has a clue what sexual orientation means, let alone her own.

(Just now getting her back in my life. Long story. Mom fucked around and found out.)

merthyr1831@lemmy.world on 09 Oct 2023 11:59 next collapse

The UK also recently tried banning VPNs. It simply isnā€™t possible. However, itā€™ll make prosecuting dissidents and people with good opsec a lot easier because they can just say ā€œwell you might not have anything incriminating on your hard drives but you DO have a VPN clientā€ and use that to get a tiny victory against someone who would otherwise go free.

Fjor@lemm.ee on 09 Oct 2023 13:04 next collapse

Yeahā€¦

r4start@lemmy.world on 10 Oct 2023 08:50 collapse

Russia, China & UAE are quite successful with blocking VPNā€™s. I wouldnā€™t be so sure that in near future UK or any EU country censorship or heavy restrict VPNā€™s.

possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip on 09 Oct 2023 12:52 next collapse

Doesnā€™t Iran prohibit vpns?

allthat@sh.itjust.works on 09 Oct 2023 12:54 next collapse

Itā€™s not a total ban of VPNs, I went to read a bit on the subject (easier since Iā€™m french), itā€™s just that some politicians came up with a few amendments relative to the bill called ā€œSRENā€ which very literally translates to ā€œSecuring and regulating the digital spaceā€. As you may guess that bill also ticks the ā€œchild pornā€ box as a reason why it came to existence.

One amendment proposes to ban mobile VPNs that do no comply with European or french regulations in the context of app stores. So itā€™s only on mobile, nothing about desktops.

Of course itā€™s inapplicable in practice.

Several amendements already failed due to backlash, one was about preventing people from posting on social networks if they use a VPN.

Fjor@lemm.ee on 09 Oct 2023 13:01 collapse

Yeah was also just listening to a podcast about this. So yeah not a straight total ban. But from what I heard, it would ban people from using VPNs outside of Europe, which obviously is not OK.

sturmblast@lemmy.world on 10 Oct 2023 12:38 collapse

I just wonder how the hell they plan on enforcing things like this