Are We All Becoming More Hostile Online? (www.psychologytoday.com)
from KarlHeinzSchwuke@feddit.org to technology@lemmy.world on 08 May 05:31
https://feddit.org/post/12094489

#technology

threaded - newest

anamethatisnt@sopuli.xyz on 08 May 05:37 next collapse

“Why are online discussions about politics more hostile than offline discussions?
A popular answer argues that human psychology is tailored for face-to-face interaction and people’s behavior therefore changes for the worse in impersonal online discussions…
Across eight studies, leveraging cross-national surveys and behavioral experiments (total N = 8,434), we test the mismatch hypothesis but only find evidence for limited selection effects.
Instead, hostile political discussions are the result of status-driven individuals who are drawn to politics and are equally hostile both online and offline.
Finally, we offer initial evidence that online discussions feel more hostile, in part, because the behavior of such individuals is more visible online than offline.”

This fits with our understanding of personality disorders, which is that they are a small percentage of our society—around 10.5 percent, according to the recent DSM-5-TR.3

I try to avoid all politics online because it’s all raging and it’s honestly depressing that 10.5% can dominate a space like that.

taladar@sh.itjust.works on 08 May 05:43 collapse

Then you probably won’t like the thought that an even smaller percentage of people who think they need to get ever richer and control ever more aspects of ever more people’s lives are basically ruining our offline world.

anamethatisnt@sopuli.xyz on 08 May 05:58 collapse

I would prefer a star trek utopia, that’s for sure.

etchinghillside@reddthat.com on 08 May 05:37 next collapse

I’ve always been a terse asshole.

jabathekek@sopuli.xyz on 08 May 05:42 collapse

Your mother is a hamster. >:(

Gnugit@aussie.zone on 08 May 06:03 next collapse

No you

ddash@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 May 06:33 collapse

gasp

Ultragramps@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 08 May 11:20 collapse

🍿&🫖

mudstickmcgee@sh.itjust.works on 08 May 08:09 collapse

At least my father doesn’t smell like elderberries

pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip on 09 May 00:06 collapse

But will you join us on our quest for the Holy Grail?!

acosmichippo@lemmy.world on 08 May 06:14 next collapse

yes and i don’t think it’s limited to politics either.

rottingleaf@lemmy.world on 08 May 06:25 next collapse

Try pitchforks

vegetvs@kbin.earth on 08 May 06:27 next collapse

I think there are two sides to this. Yes, online aggression has probably peaked in recent years with the rise of worldwide pro far-right misinformation campaigns, no argument there. They were specifically targeted at the people more vulnerable to buy into hate speech propaganda.

On the other hand, I have personally noticed more constructive discussions, even after I deleted most of my anti-social media accounts and substantialy decreased my usage of Internet forums in general. It seems there's some positive trend in the middle of all that.

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 08 May 07:15 collapse

Not my experience. Just try to post some slightly unpopular opinion and good luck with the virtue signaling, whatever the topic is, and which is mostly done for fake internet points, I bet.

PlasticLove@lemmy.today on 08 May 07:50 collapse

“Virtue signaling”

Hmmm that’s telling language.

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 08 May 08:47 collapse

What does “telling language” means, in this context? I’ve never heard that. Not a native speaker.

If you are implying that I’m defending “unpopular” stuff such as racism, sexism, or any kind of right-wing “free speech”, you’re plainly wrong. I’m talking about much less sensitive topics (technology, for instance). As an example, I’ve been attacked for saying that I profoundly dislike Mozilla and that I don’t care if the disappeared (they should, actually).

Give your imagination a rest.

vegetvs@kbin.earth on 08 May 09:00 next collapse

Now you got me curious. What's the argument against Mozilla?

Engywuck@lemm.ee on 08 May 09:07 collapse

I’m not going to discuss that again, I’ve already wasted too much time explaining why I despise them, nor I’m going to apologize for celebrating their demise, when it comes. If you disagree, just start donating to them.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 08 May 12:11 collapse

People really don't like Mozilla parasites being called for their grift.

Womble@lemmy.world on 09 May 10:50 collapse

I think is one of the main reasons for why there is such a lot of hostile discussion online, people read something which they infer as a hint of something they dont like and from there extrapolate into the worst person they imagine who could be saying that and proceed to righteously strike them down (with words).

PennyRoyal@sh.itjust.works on 08 May 06:39 next collapse

No, fuck off, how very dare you suggest such a thing you horrid bastard you, just you wait, I’m going to punch you in the elbow and knock over your second-favourite house plant for insinuating such lies

mudstickmcgee@sh.itjust.works on 08 May 08:09 collapse

Hey. You don’t talkt to op like this you fucking degenerate piece of shit, we’re all being nice to each other!

cosmicrookie@lemmy.world on 08 May 08:57 collapse

I’ve blocked both of you idiots

Eyedust@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 May 09:24 collapse
Engywuck@lemm.ee on 08 May 07:13 next collapse

Yes. Next question, you SOB!

Flemmy@lemm.ee on 08 May 07:27 next collapse

Meet Anon.

orcrist@lemm.ee on 08 May 08:16 next collapse

What a terrible headline. All of us? No. Next.

Genius@lemmy.zip on 08 May 08:27 next collapse

TL;DR: It’s the .mls’ fault. They’re assholes all the time, but we don’t see them offline because they don’t have jobs

ThrowawayPermanente@sh.itjust.works on 08 May 12:30 collapse

Fuck .ml, but this is true everywhere. A lot of content and discussion is produced by the terminally online, and they are pretty much by definition not happy, well-adjusted people.

Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org on 08 May 08:30 next collapse

No fucking shit we are. How did you crack that nut, Einstein?

shaggyb@lemmy.world on 08 May 10:07 next collapse

Here’s the thing.

The last 10 years have proven that organized online hostility is VERY EFFECTIVE at dictating public opinion.

That’s how we got the new fascist movements. Trump and the like. Because right wing hostility and bigotry went not only unchecked institutionally but unchallenged socially.

No solution has emerged for that from an institutional level.

So yeah, my socialist ass is fighting back. I’ll be damned if I’m going to spend the rest of my life under these fucking wastes of flesh and their bullshit antiquated opinions. I’m done taking it and I’m done tolerating it. Fuck every last republican and homophobe and transphobe and complicit liberal. All of them. And wouldn’t you know it, little by little they’re backing down when we stand up to them like the cowards they are.

Yes, I am deliberately far more hostile online, because it WORKS. And clearly nobody with institutional control cares enough to try anything else.

1984@lemmy.today on 08 May 11:01 next collapse

The only problem is that you guys call everyone a transphone or homophobe or liberal or whatever, all the time. Its actually a bit funny because you dont see the forest for the trees. Everyone has to think exactly the same or they are THE ENEMY and need to be keyboard warriored into compliance with right-think :)

With age comes a bit more wisdom (ok maybe not for Trump). If you have calm discussions and listen, you will absolutely 100% see that most people are actually quite alright. Even if they dont like trans people, they will eventuelly get there, by having discussions and chats and seeing them in the real world.

I remember how this worked in Sweden where I live. At first, everyone was super racist. We had like 3 black people in school and they were of course bullied and thought of as very strange. This was in 1985 or something.

Now, decades later, its seen as strange if you dont have black people at a job, or see them everywhere. Because its normal.

The same thing will happen with trans people but you dont have to sit and hate people online to get there. It will happen as more trans people come out and join everyone else at work and in the cities, just normally.

I have seen it. So just relax guys. Dont hate.

_core@sh.itjust.works on 08 May 11:25 next collapse

Conformity of thought, belief, or action isn’t the problem. The oroblem is treating some people or groups as less than human and not deserving of equal rights and opportunities.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 08 May 12:10 collapse

Sir this is a Lemmy... WTF is you talking about?

Show where people on here are treated as less than human...

punksnotdead@slrpnk.net on 08 May 12:38 collapse

Your brain really is in the bin…

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 08 May 12:40 collapse

Nice one ;)

shaggyb@lemmy.world on 09 May 10:07 next collapse

I remember how this worked in Sweden where I live

Yeah, things don’t work that way everywhere.

We tried being nice in America. It got us here.

You just go back to enjoying your ivory tower. We have actual problems here and your high road is not the solution.

1984@lemmy.today on 09 May 11:17 collapse

How did you try being nice? You have a war on everything… Drugs, freedom, privacy… Im honestly not sure how you see yourself as being nice…

High road? Im also not sure how you took the high road. Im genuinely interested, maybe my perspective here is completely wrong.

AA5B@lemmy.world on 09 May 12:03 collapse

Some of those were well intended over reactions.

  • “War on drugs” was hyperbole to stoke up enthusiasm to fight against a real problem. And somehow ended with millions of broken lives, millions behind bars for victimless crimes, worse racism. Maybe it was taken over by racists, or maybe we all got caught up in the moment, but it was mostly not being able to face when it went wrong, then eventually only the worst conservatives were in charge
  • “War on organized crime” also well intended hyperbole to mobilize effort against a real problem. People forgot lessons about whether the “means justifies the end”, and now after trying to get back to a normal life we’re left with legalized rights violations. “For our own good”, a surveillance state, more racism, legalized theft, and cops above the law. As we tried to recover, only the worst authoritarians were left in charge and it got worse quickly.
Almacca@aussie.zone on 09 May 10:16 next collapse

Apart from anything else, spending all that energy resisting change that’s coming anyway must be exhausting. It’s no wonder they’re so cranky.

WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca on 09 May 11:39 next collapse

Counterpoint: call out bigotry or fuck off

1984@lemmy.today on 09 May 13:38 collapse

You know, there oneliners may sound cool when you are a teenager, but they are signs of a mind who thinks in absolutes, because there is no wisdom yet.

It will come through life and getting older. :)

WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca on 09 May 13:51 collapse

Nah. Can almost guarantee I would have been on your side when I was your age.

AA5B@lemmy.world on 09 May 11:48 collapse

The problem is these are the people who won’t get there, plus they’re harming a lot of people in the meantime.

Codger mode ….

Back when I was a wee young’un, I lived in a small town in a rural area. Republicans ideals made sense (whose not to like fiscal prudence), we read about the crime ridden horrors of big cities, read about the inbred fear of education down south, read about drugs destroying peoples lives, read about welfare queens, read about illegal immigrants and crime. We “weren’t racist” but those dark skin people were violent criminals. Products of our environments I guess.

Like you, I grew up. As I was exposed to a larger variety of people, I discovered they were people. As I saw more people in situations outside their control, I developed more empathy. As I got to know people with different preferences than mine, I learned their preferences didn’t do me any harm. Now decades later, it’s hard to understand the fear, oppression, racism, hatred, and it’s impossible to understand the unethical inconsistent self serving authoritarians that Republicans have become. I’ve seen it too. I apologize to everyone I hurt because it took years for me to grow into a better human being.

The problem is these are the people who never grew out of it. They’re the people who saw their friends and family expand their horizons, but retreated ever deeper into their holes. Theyre the people who saw progress and desperately yearned for a mythical past that never was. They’re the people who saw everyone else growing out of their limitations, and turned to extremism. They are not joining everyone else but have turned their backs and headed the other directions. They are the diehards wallowing in their misery who don’t care about anyone else’s misery. They are the righteous who have lost their way, cloaking their hatred, spite and corruption is self-righteous desperation. They are the self-centered stealing from society and stealing from the future. They are the limited viewpoint building ever higher walls against fear of the outside. They won’t change.

gradual@lemmings.world on 08 May 22:44 collapse

There’s a war going on.

A war of ideas.

xc2215x@lemmy.world on 08 May 12:11 next collapse

Yes. It is longer than just now though.

MagicShel@lemmy.zip on 08 May 12:41 next collapse

Some people deliberately come to social media for fighting. I probably used to. Maybe on occasion when I’m feeling cranky I will be less diplomatic than I really want to be.

But I find two things actually help:

  1. I’m not friends/following anyone I know in real life. That helps with anonymity in case I do run afoul of someone who bears a grudge, but also when someone posts aggravating bullshit, it’s not someone I care about. Which leads to…
  2. I’m merciless about blocking anyone and anything that I can’t engage with fruitfully. Attention is a limited resource and I don’t want to spend it all on negativity. I’m happy to hold genial conversations with folks I disagree with, but if interacting with them becomes tedious, stressful, or annoying I just bin them. Hell, if someone is a big enough prick to someone else I block them. If someone is in every thread harping on some agenda, gone.

Bluesky has a feature to mute keywords for a set period. If I need a break from news about Gaza, Trump, some trending drama, sports (like the World Cup), or just want to avoid spoilers, I mute the topic for a while.

Together, these tools make social media much less negative for me. It usually keeps me from doom scrolling or taking the rage bait.

And when I’m emotionally charged or unclear, I sometimes draft my comments elsewhere before posting. I let it sit for a bit, and if I can’t say what I mean with the tone and clarity I want, I just don’t post. Maybe 30% of my comments get binned—some after spending an hour or more working on them.

In short, I heavily curate my social interactions—both incoming and outgoing—to reduce stress and negativity. As a result, social media today is far more pleasant than it was ten years ago.

LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world on 08 May 17:09 collapse

BlueSky is genuinely one of the least toxic socials I’ve had in a while. I can agree to disagree there on normal issues like whether UBI should be given in a lump sum, weekly, monthly- it’s not fucking assholes “debating” if aliens built the pyramids and whether we should drink our own pee or if good faith arguments are important or if it’s “natural” to be attracted to 14yr old girls as an adult man (all topics I’ve seen on Lemmy).

GoodLuckToFriends@lemmy.today on 08 May 22:26 next collapse

or if it’s “natural” to be attracted to 14yr old girls as an adult man (all topics I’ve seen on Lemmy)

Wait, what?

LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world on 09 May 06:25 collapse

Yeah, there are a lot of men on here who really go to bat for pedophilia. Don’t even BREATHE a word about AI porn of children being immoral because it is modeled after irl children and can be made to blackmail kids etc. Don’t ever argue with any Muslim misogynists on here that child marriage is bad or that feminism in Islam is good. Never be upset that a man was saying it is “probably” not good for kids if they participate in sex acts (we have specific physiological signs like bedwetting that show CSA is inherently damaging to humans) but that it should be totally normal to have your kids WATCH you fuck because they probably did that in medieval times.

And people wonder why my bio recommends BlueSky

MagicShel@lemmy.zip on 08 May 22:32 collapse

That’s one of those things where I’m happiest just not seeing or being part of that conversation. Those are unserious people and it’s pointless to pretend you can have a serious conversation about those things. And even if you could, what is the value to me to wade into the nuance of when it’s okay to find someone attractive when frankly it wouldn’t matter—if they didn’t act like aggressive horny assholes to anyone. I have 13 and 15 year old daughters. I don’t really care who finds them attractive, but I do care who disrespects them, and that’s not going to change when they turn 18, so again that conversation doesn’t need my presence at all.

I’ll agree that Bluesky is minimally toxic, but I also haven’t gotten a whiff of those kinds of conversations here on Lemmy, either. The most contentious ones were in the run-up to the elections and that’s just a tense time for everyone. And it’s hard to let opinions we vehemently disagree with run rampant when the consequences for getting shit wrong are… well… gestures at everything.

C45513@lemm.ee on 08 May 12:42 next collapse

Yes, and it’s a good thing. The Paradox of Tolerance. If we want a world where people are free to choose and believe and live unique and different lives, we cannot stand by and do nothing while intolerant assholes live their lives.

Bieren@lemmy.world on 08 May 12:46 next collapse

Seems to be a positive trend happening. Instead of just nothing but toxic trolls. People are starting to push back on the mindless bullshit that is ruining the world.

CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world on 09 May 12:22 collapse

Agreed, the toxic assholes have been here since the beginning, everyone else is just finally pushing back.

MTK@lemmy.world on 08 May 12:55 next collapse

Fuck you!

[deleted] on 08 May 13:13 next collapse

.

kyle@lemm.ee on 08 May 13:27 next collapse

Fuck you and I’ll see you tomorrow!

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 08 May 14:25 next collapse

I’m not your you, buddy!

GoodLuckToFriends@lemmy.today on 08 May 22:15 collapse

I won’t do what you tell me.

kami@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 08 May 13:13 next collapse

The special group of people providing negativity are probably bots anyway.

thedruid@lemmy.world on 08 May 14:48 next collapse

I have. I honestly try not to be. There’s just so many uncaring shits online. It makes me sick to think of how fucked up these trolls are to relish causing others distress. Then I become a dick

I’m trying to be better

Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com on 08 May 16:10 next collapse

There’s just so many uncaring shits online.

I wonder how much “hate” on the internet is this… but the reality is that is how you “see” them in your head rather than what they’re actually saying/believe. A lot of negative responses to some of the things I say is a strawman of what I actually believe/said.

thedruid@lemmy.world on 08 May 16:18 next collapse

Yeah see, I don’t buy that. I can say things in a less than PC way, but it takes tow to argue. If I don’t make an effort to be understood, I can’t be pissed when I’m not

And since I can’t force others do that, I can only do what I can

We are all responsible for what we say , good and bad

But thank you for sharing, sincerely

Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com on 08 May 16:59 collapse

but it takes tow to argue

Eh… It really doesn’t though does it? One side can be sincerely stating points of fact/logic and others often can and do often ascribe that as “you’re a terrible person for saying that!”.

We are all responsible for what we say , good and bad

Good and bad are subjective though. There is often no black and white. I often cite and source things to show that I’m not stating anything as a matter of opinion… and out of the blue some rando comes out and tries ascribing some sense of moral straw-man claiming that I must believe something or another. Here’s an example from literally last night…

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.saik0.com/pictrs/image/a905dd47-87d1-469a-80b4-31e808b96caf.png">

I made no statement that could even be construed as putting words in other people’s mouths… yet someone straw-manned me by definition (and didn’t even know the word for it) by Smee there trying to make some grand point that nobody was even making at that point but they thought I was.

Edit: Actually you don’t even need to look at an entirely different thread… Just look at the other response to me. Someone who wasn’t even in the conversation comes out of the blue and ascribes something I never said nor could ever have been construed as and took it to some straw-man end game nonsense.

thedruid@lemmy.world on 08 May 23:48 collapse

Let me show you why it takes two…

Have a good evening

LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world on 08 May 17:05 collapse

Someone hacked a roomba last year to yell the N word at people on a mic.

The WORLD has become more hateful, it is not simply perception.

Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com on 08 May 17:09 next collapse

Okay? I never said “ALL HATE on the internet is bullshit”… I said “I wonder how much is just people constructing shit in their own head.”

This is exactly my point. You chose to interpret my words in a way that I clearly would have never intended if you actually spent time to read the words and understand them for what they were rather than some magical interpretation that clearly was never said.

Edit: Thanks for the downvote too! Proves the point further.

Edit2: And on your specific point I would argue otherwise. In the past, humans would just kill each other rather than yelling words through a machine. Literal murder -> Mean words is a de-escalation. We can do better for sure… do not misconstrue that, but to claim that we’re more hateful now, when history shows us murdering each other for less is a bit silly of a stance to take.

LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world on 08 May 17:15 collapse

I think you’re actually doing here what you are accusing me of re: misinterpretting. My last comment was mild af.

The world has become more hateful. It’s not just online or in people’s heads. We have evidence that massive online warfare happens, literal psychological warfare and soldiers paid to post hate online all day every day. One independent journalist estimated at least a trillion dollars spent for various election/political meddling in 2024 and 2025, with protests in Romania, Georgia, Serbia, Slovakia, South Korea, Germany, Poland, etc etc etc.

So yeah, you got a downvote, grow up about it. You’re wrong and didn’t contribute anything meaningful to the conversation. This isn’t even “hate,” this is simple disagreement that you are too thin-skinned to handle.

Hate is stuff like: ableism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia. Eg a roomba yelling the N word at people. It is not disagreeing with you and downvoting you, lol. For fucks sake.

Edit for your E2: The massive online armies are using online hate to conduct genocides and kill people more efficiently. With massive networks of countries with camps and slavery including Assad’s knowledge of death camps.

Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com on 08 May 17:33 collapse

You’re wrong and didn’t contribute anything meaningful to the conversation.

So you think that out of all the hate on the internet… NONE of it is constructed shit in people’s own head?(keep in the mind that the article itself talks about personality disorders and DSM-5, literally talking about things like schizophrenia and ADHD… mental disorders that affect how we think are in that book). That this number is so infallibly 0% that my thought doesn’t contribute ANY meaningful value to discuss at all? You sure that it contributed nothing to the conversation and that’s why you downvoted? Cause it would appear to me that you’ve just chosen to ignore the words, ascribe your own meaning to stuff that wasn’t there and then downvoted because you didn’t like it.

It’s clear that this is happening on the internet in many cases. In saner parts of the internet (sometimes even here on lemmy) you’ll see two people arguing, a misconception clear up, and magically all the “hate” dissolved away and both parties walk away amicably.

Hate is stuff like: ableism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia.

www.dictionary.com/browse/hate

It only means that as an adjective, or under pretense where it’s clear that we’re talking about a class of people, if that’s the case it wasn’t clear to me and I just took it as a general overall “the world seems more hateful”. Which it wasn’t used any other way in the comments up to this point this way nor the article itself. So now you’ve constructed some other thing that nobody has referenced just so you can argue some other point that nobody else was apparently making. Keep in mind that the whole thread started with “Hostile” from the article, and not “hate”. The article doesn’t reference anything about any specific classes of people, and even talks about personality disorders (so medical perspective) rather than " ableism, misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia" and other… uh… character flaws(? might not be the correct phrase to use but maybe the point comes across) that shitty people have.

Edit: Oh and I don’t care about downvotes. But the fact that YOU downvoted the comment was part of the point. It literally is adding context to the actual discussion we’re actively having. It’s directly related behavioral response that’s worthy of discussing in this particular discussion. Trust me I get down-voted plenty on Lemmy and couldn’t care less otherwise. Usually for not immediately jumping on a bandwagon.

InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 08 May 17:44 collapse

I went to high school in the south, I’m not white.

The hate is not something you can process, the worst we see online, the Andrew tates, the people calling for all brown people to be deported to El Salvador, that’s Disney compared to them.

Becauae it was all they had, and the hate infused them down to the cells, such that it was all they had keeping them going.

Trump took the lid off, let them feel more comfortable talking in public.

But these are people who casually discuss how the only way to heal the world is to exterminate all the Muslims and jews, how we should nuke China now because we can, and how atheists and anybody more left than Trump needs to be castrated now for the good of America.

To people shocked at the toxicity, I think you grew up in far more sheltered places.

thedruid@lemmy.world on 08 May 23:50 collapse

Dude I grew up dirt poor on govt cheese in the 70s and 8os. Homeless at times, hunted and fished more for food than bought it

Sheltered? Nah.

Saddened… Dismayed? Yes

InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 09 May 00:06 collapse

Maybe sheltered isn’t the right word.

You grew up in a nurturing home.

Everyone didn’t have that luxury, and many grew up to be assholes.

thedruid@lemmy.world on 09 May 11:04 collapse

I watched my father try to kill my mother and was on the streets at 16. Nice try

I don’t say that in a mean way. I will not pretend to know your story. I can’t. Especially those who are poc( I don’t know yours and am not trying to be personal so I’m not asking )

What I’m saying is I can’t understand a poc’s full experience. I’ll never have to tell my kid to watch out for cops because of his skin color.

I can, however, understand how others sink into the anger despair and rage. I know what it’s like to wake in a jail cell, I know what hardship really is.

I also know that it is never overcome through cruelty. In fact that puts everyone, including the perpetrator, in a worse place.

So again. We don’t have to be this shitty to each other.

poopkins@lemmy.world on 09 May 00:45 collapse

I feel like I’m fighting a one-person crusade every time I respond politely to some jerk online. Last night I couldn’t sleep because some rando on the internet said mean things. Why are humans like this? Why can’t we just be nice? Sometimes I feel like we deserve to go extinct.

thedruid@lemmy.world on 09 May 10:56 collapse

Because everyone wants to be popular. Most people don’t have the tools to be popular through kindness so they simply act like the other orcs instead.

LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world on 08 May 17:04 next collapse

Theres so much pedophilia, wanton violence, racism, misogyny, homophobia, ableism, transphobia… fuck all these people. May they never find peace or happiness. We owe no one politeness.

MehBlah@lemmy.world on 08 May 17:13 next collapse

Nope. Its the same as it ever way.

knowyourmeme.com/…/greater-internet-fuckwad-theor…

Objection@lemmy.ml on 08 May 17:29 next collapse

Jonathan Haidt recently wrote in The Atlantic:

Ok but fr tho fuck Jonathan Haidt.

Haidt was JAQing off about trans people in the exact way that the Onion called out and satirized hours after their article was published. He’s a “centrist” who seems to exclusively punch left, and he’s just whining about getting called out with legitimate criticism.

He also got deez nuts’d iirc lol.

Edit: Shit, I had him confused with another Atlantic writer, Jonathan Chait. My bad. Haidt is also a left-punching transphobic “centrist” tho.

InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 08 May 17:32 next collapse

Jesus christ, it’s like you read the headline and desperately wanted to provide supporting evidence.

Next time? Just for like 1 second?

Imagine that other people don’t give a shit about you blasting your toxicity at the world. Maybe the world would actually be a better place if assholes like you shut up some times.

BTW, this has absolutely nothing to do with trans rights, this is just you personally acting like every other .ml out there.

Objection@lemmy.ml on 08 May 21:36 collapse

Jesus christ, it’s like you read the headline and desperately wanted to provide supporting evidence.

Well, yes. First off because it’s funny. Several other people in the thread thought so and made the same joke.

But also, yes, because I despise civility fetishism, and I also despise Haidt for being a transphobic shitlib. And obviously, the two are connected, the reason Haidt is whining about civility is that he got bullied on Twitter for his transphobia and he wants to be able to shit on trans people without suffering any kind of social reprecussions.

It’s funny how you baselessly assert “this has absolutely nothing to do with trans rights” as if just saying it somehow makes it true, like some kind of magic spell. I wonder, would you say the same thing if it was a more prominent transphobe like JK Rowling calling out hostility in internet discourse? What if it was someone like, say, Charlie Kirk, or even Richard Spencer? Are you a true civility fetishist who takes issue with bullying bigots, or is it that you’re only ok with bigotry when it’s directed towards trans people? Idk, seems worth investigating.

But, you know, maybe civility fetishism isn’t so bad. Maybe it’s me who’s wrong, I’m just a crazy radical, and I need to be more like MLK.

First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”

Huh, kinda seems like he saw tension disrupting the peace as being necessary towards pushing towards justice in equality in an unjust status quo. But maybe MLK is too radical too. You know who I need to be more like? Jesus. That’s right, I’m turning over a new leaf and I’ve decided to be more Christlike.

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household.

Huh. Kinda seems like even Jesus agreed that social change necessarily involved creating conflict, or bringing conflicts to the forefront, in order to address injustice.

But ok, let’s ignore them (maybe the world would just be a better place if assholes like them would shut up some times and stop blasting their toxicity all over the world) and look at the actual, present day reality. When exactly was internet discourse supposedly more civil? Let’s compare to, say, 10 years ago, 2015. Before #MeToo so you don’t have to worry about women calling people out for sexual assault and causing division, but it’s also in the middle of Gamergate, so you know, really not a great time to be a woman on the internet, but I guess if you were a cishet white man, things were pretty peaceful and harmonious. You also didn’t have a bunch of people calling out the bombs going to the Middle East, of course, we were still bombing civilians en masse, but I guess if you were a cishet white man, things were pretty peaceful and harmonious.

You know when discourse was really at it’s peak? The 1950’s. Before all these radicals started calling for civil rights or spreading division against things like bombing Vietnam or Korea, just an all around wonderful time, a Leave it to Beaver paradise, you know, just so long as you’re a cishet white man.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/9e3bb8ee-c054-441f-acdd-67210d01b4e1.jpeg">

At some point, obviously, you have to draw the line. And I’ve simply drawn it a little bit further than you have.

gradual@lemmings.world on 08 May 22:47 collapse

This, this is what neurodivergence looks like.

[deleted] on 09 May 00:09 next collapse

.

Objection@lemmy.ml on 09 May 00:25 collapse

When you can’t refute any of the other person’s points, just call them crazy 🙄

Seems like you’re contributing to hostile online discourse with all these insults you keep hurling at me. I’m just trying to have a conversation.

InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 09 May 01:40 collapse

Not calling you crazy.

I’m calling you someone with serious emotional issues.

Objection@lemmy.ml on 09 May 02:09 collapse

Absent your attempts to make it insulting and pathological, that’s called passionately opposing injustice. Being dispassionate is not inherently more “sane” or “reasonable,” having emotions is human and some things should provoke emotional reactions.

But of course, in reality, my response was quite calm and well reasoned, presenting plenty of evidence to support my points. You’re the one who can’t keep pace with that and have to resort to these petty insults in an attempt to discredit me, because you’re incapable of a logical response.

InvertedParallax@lemm.ee on 09 May 10:25 collapse

I know people who actually do contribute positive changes to the world.

They don’t sound like you.

You’re a keyboard warrior trying to spin a narrative such that a hegelian dielectic becomes an all consuming manichaeanism .

If you ever actually read Marx, you clearly never understood it.

Objection@lemmy.ml on 09 May 11:17 collapse

More personal attacks, because it’s all you’ve got. Funny how I’m the one criticizing civility fetishism but I’ve been considerably more civil this conversation than you have. Maybe you should try practicing what you preach.

Also funny that you think you understand Marx, who famously called for, “Ruthless criticism of everything that exists” as if Karl Marx would be clutching pearls over me calling out Jonathan Haidt.

What is now happening to Marx’s theory has, in the course of history, happened repeatedly to the theories of revolutionary thinkers and leaders of oppressed classes fighting for emancipation. During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes constantly hounded them, received their theories with the most savage malice, the most furious hatred and the most unscrupulous campaigns of lies and slander. After their death, attempts are made to convert them into harmless icons, to canonize them, so to say, and to hallow their names to a certain extent for the “consolation” of the oppressed classes and with the object of duping the latter, while at the same time robbing the revolutionary theory of its substance, blunting its revolutionary edge and vulgarizing it. Today, the bourgeoisie and the opportunists within the labor movement concur in this doctoring of Marxism. They omit, obscure, or distort the revolutionary side of this theory, its revolutionary soul. They push to the foreground and extol what is or seems acceptable to the bourgeoisie. All the social-chauvinists are now “Marxists” (don’t laugh!).

Objection@lemmy.ml on 09 May 01:07 collapse

Are you saying that in an attempt to insult/discredit me in some way? Yes, I’m neurodivergent, and proud of it. I’m also correct on the points I made (save for mixing up Haidt and Chait, as I owned up to).

gradual@lemmings.world on 09 May 05:35 collapse

It’s not an insult, just an observation.

Thanks for confirming it.

fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net on 09 May 07:56 collapse

Agreed, haidt is a hack

shiroininja@lemmy.world on 08 May 17:32 next collapse

I’ve been facing a lot more personal harassment over disagreements on the internet that should never lead to that level of harassment. Like taking photos of me from my profile, photoshopping them, sharing them labeled as a pedophile because of my appearance, and Last weekend I had an angry racist threaten to dox me to my employer that I— called out racism?— trying to get me fired.

I feel like the paid trolls have gotten really aggressive since the election.

RedPostItNote@lemmy.world on 09 May 08:27 collapse

Why are you posting photos of yourself or about your workplace online? First mistake

shiroininja@lemmy.world on 09 May 10:30 collapse

They take my profile picture. I don’t post about my job anywhere and it’s not on any of my profiles because I don’t associate with that place when I’m not there. I honestly don’t know how they found out where I work.

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 08 May 18:06 next collapse

the platforms see it as lucrative, therefore its hating eachother time.

Geodad@lemm.ee on 08 May 21:45 next collapse

IMO, the reason is because scientists haven’t found a way to punch someone in their face over the internet yet.

captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works on 09 May 01:11 next collapse

I’ve long thought that phones needed a taze button. Every telephone in the world should have the power to deliver a high power electric shock to the user, and the phone network should only allow the callee to taze the caller. So if you call someone, the person you have called can taze you.

I don’t see any problem with the telephone network that can’t be solved by putting a 30,000 volt potential across the caller’s jaw. Make it work on call bots too, if a computer automatically calls you and you don’t want it to, put Shearon Harris on the line. Modern problems require 2nd Amendment solutions, and if you elect me as your president in 2028 it is these policies that I shall energetically enact.

Geodad@lemm.ee on 09 May 03:26 collapse

I like to carry an air horn for when scammers and other nuisances call.

Sturgist@lemmy.ca on 09 May 08:05 collapse

How often do you have to go get the mics on your phone replaced?

Geodad@lemm.ee on 09 May 10:41 collapse

Not yet. 😂

Sturgist@lemmy.ca on 09 May 10:46 collapse

Dang! Some decent hardware then! How bout your own hearing? Getting tinnitus yet? What level of hearing protection are you using?

Geodad@lemm.ee on 09 May 11:53 collapse

I’m an old Army veteran, I’ve had tinnitus for years. I’m using a Pixel.

Sturgist@lemmy.ca on 09 May 12:30 collapse

Sorry, pardon?

Never even fiddled around with someone else’s Pixel, how do you like it?
Clearly it deals with being blasted by an air horn 3-15+ times a day, other than robust mics how is the build quality?

Almacca@aussie.zone on 09 May 10:10 collapse

They send SWAT teams to their houses, which is pretty close.

GreenKnight23@lemmy.world on 09 May 00:01 next collapse

fuck no we aren’t.

anyone who says otherwise can fight me.

pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip on 09 May 00:05 collapse

And I’m pissed that you got to this comment first!

Scolding7300@lemmy.world on 09 May 03:11 collapse

Yeah fuck that person

DancingBear@midwest.social on 09 May 03:22 collapse

They both seem like assholes to me 🤷‍♂️

Sturgist@lemmy.ca on 09 May 08:03 collapse

Pot and the kettle much?
You know what they say, if you find that you’re always surrounded by assholes… you’re probably the asshole…

AA5B@lemmy.world on 09 May 11:31 collapse

Both sides are the same. Fight me on it

quincunx@lemm.ee on 09 May 06:31 next collapse

Age group…

LovableSidekick@lemmy.world on 09 May 07:17 next collapse

IMO online commenters are increasingly showing pathological binary thinking - the attitude that there are exactly two sides to every issue - the Right one and the Wrong one. Questioning ANY aspect of the Right one means you’re obviously a hardcore supporter of EVERY aspect of the Wrong one. You’re either morally and ethically pure or your character is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. To me it’s a really paradoxical way of thinking about diversity and acceptance - more like we’re supposed to either wholeheartedly embrace people or despise them.

RedPostItNote@lemmy.world on 09 May 08:26 collapse

This is usually how people treat fascists. Not sure what’s surprising about it

elrecoal19_1@lemmy.world on 09 May 11:40 collapse

Could you elaborate? I don’t understand

Estebiu@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 09 May 08:10 next collapse

Who the fuck says I’m hostile ? Fuck you

Almacca@aussie.zone on 09 May 10:04 next collapse

I go more for ‘tiresomely cynical’, but whatever.

elrecoal19_1@lemmy.world on 09 May 11:41 next collapse

There is no engagement mechanism like rage

altphoto@lemmy.today on 09 May 12:08 collapse

No, we’re just done with things like the orange man nazis, advertising, paywalls, borders, illegal for thee but not for me billionaires.

Bit once that’s fixed we’ll go back to clicking on links to help prince Abu Abowah of Nigeria to settle his bank account once and for all.