underline960@sh.itjust.works
on 03 May 06:52
nextcollapse
A beta build of Android 16 contains an early version of Google’s new Android Desktop Mode that, in the future, could let users simply plug their smartphone into a monitor and use it like a laptop or desktop computer.
It seems this is an instance where the headline tells the full story
taladar@sh.itjust.works
on 03 May 07:00
nextcollapse
Now the question is if people will be stupid enough to replace all the freedoms their desktop OS still gives them with the vendor controlled shit show that is mobile OS.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
on 03 May 07:17
nextcollapse
I use DEX (not directly to the monitor, but the desktop app) to have easier access to my personal Firefox and messenger apps when I’m at work. I don’t want to run any of my personal stuff on the work laptop (not even in a VM) and I hate typing on the phone’s tiny touch keyboard, so DEX is a great alternative.
i‘m hyped for a graphene desktop mode. that wouldn’t be a replacement for my laptop/ desktop computers but still very much sick. and if i can run a terminal with neovim and tmux or ssh into other machines it would be a dope backup/ micro setup. probably not very useful, but fun i think
I have a dying laptop and am very much interested in replacing it with my phone + Nexdock (or similar)
neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 May 08:03
nextcollapse
I’m not an android user, but doesn’t it let you do whatever you want? What things can’t a person do using Android as a desktop that a windows or mac user can do?
Android is very much designed with every application in its own little silo that needs the permission of the OS vendor or something off-device (like a cloud service both apps access) to communicate with each other. This means, among other things, a very limited ability to do software development on the device and run your own applications, a very limited ability to automate applications, no chaining of workflows (e.g. read some sensor in one app, process the data in another, graph it in a third). You also generally don’t have administrator/root access on the device and if you do get around that restriction a lot of the applications for things like banks will refuse to work. You can’t properly control which data your device collects and where it sends it. Your ability to debug the behavior of your own applications and device is severely limited.
neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 May 09:53
collapse
Thanks for the heads up. This is good to know.
I typically use my work computer for just zoom meetings. I could see my possibly being able to replace my work computer with this.
Of course I’d still keep Linux on my personal laptop.
I recently saw terminal access as a feature of Android 16 too, so if you have su access, that should give you all the power you need. Now let’s hope root will become standard, instead of needing to flash Magisk.
taladar@sh.itjust.works
on 03 May 09:01
nextcollapse
, so if you have su access, that should give you all the power you need.
Still won’t save you from the complete isolation of the apps from each other, only allowing you to exchange data between them at the OS maker’s generosity.
I’m not sure if I understand what you’re talking about exactly. With root I can access all files on my device (including /data/data, where app internal files are kept) and I can give permission to apps to access all files too, it they ask for it. Not that I’d want that, because it’s way safer to keep user data in /storage/emulated/0 and give read permissions on file or folder level (like /Pictures for a gallery app, or just the picture I want to share for a social media app).
If you want to share data between apps, the easiest way would be to give them access to the same folder in user space. That isn’t OS maker’s generosity, that’s basic security controls.
It gives you terminal access to a Debian VM, not the Android subsystem.
SufferingSteve@feddit.nu
on 03 May 08:59
nextcollapse
If you sit in a room and you can see the bars, you know you are trapped, if you sit in a room, but you cant see the bars, you are going to think you are free
That ship has sailed. Hence this being called a "post-PC era".
QuarterSwede@lemmy.world
on 03 May 12:53
nextcollapse
100% they will and want this. I’m a power user and even I see this as the future.
Have you worked in a non-tech field with people? Modern OSs and office apps are not intuitive to them. Hell, a lot have problems with just their phones as is.
taladar@sh.itjust.works
on 03 May 13:26
nextcollapse
I suppose you mean the same effect I have noticed with our younger apprentices who know very little about the way computers work anymore since they grew up with phones only, they don’t even know what a file system is any more.
Yeah… I dont see this happening. Android has 99% shovelware crap. I dont see how any professional would be able to use Android instead of Windows, MacOS or Linux.
Android is garbage, and I’m saying this as an android user… The moment a serious Linux alternative is here for phones I’m gone (yes I’m aware Android is technically also “Linux”).
Just a few examples: the file system is a mess, good luck trying to easily save on network drives. There is no decent office suite and again using the files system to save documents in Android is a shitshow. There are Adobe products but they’re all watered down shitty versions of the desktop ones, the alternatives are even worse. Around every corner google tries to push it’s shitty cloud subscriptions, the telemetry is insane even compared to windows.
No Android is definitely not the future chromebooks were a mess too. And knowing Google they’ll just give up on anything they don’t seem profitable enough so even if they tried on desktop they’ll just pull the plug after 2 years.
If people complain about Linux being hard… give android a try as desktop OS it’s probably 10x worse. At least Linux comes with a decent office suite and decent networking capabilities.
You underestimate how much professional work is done via the web browser and RDP these days. I am a Cloud Engineer (basically do virtualization work) and could easily get by using a phone as my main work system. Most of the time I am using MS office apps that are basically just wrappers for their web versions anyways, and on a VPN connected to some server. All doable from samsung dex already, I just dont use it because multi monitor is important to my work flow
Unless you invested a lot of money and time, you are certainly already running an OS with a lot of BLOBs at the most important parts (WIFI driver, etc).
Given AOSP and a decent smartphone, I am basically at exactly the same level I am with running Linux on my desktop. Actually, the smartphone could be better, if it is a Pixel, because at least I’ll have 100% hardware support. … and again, AFAIK one will be able to run Debian in a virtual environment.
Long story short: I would never buy hardware with vendor lock in, but middle to high class Android smartphones are actually standardized hardware which run excellent with Linux. Total win for me.
The times when you couldn’t get PCs with 100% hardware support on Linux were 15+ years ago. You can still find the occasional one today that doesn’t have it but it is not hard to get 100% support.
… I do not want to argue with you and Linux hardware support certainly is much better than decades ago (I was there, I know :-P) … but even my hardware, which was bought with Linux support in mind, I have several problems… one of my laptops WIFI card has problems with Linux sleep mode, one of my Lenovo machines has audio trouble with the microphone after being used for longer online calls and the list goes on. I hope that I am just very unlucky with my hardware picks, but when you have known hardware components in a mass produced device like Google Pixel, I hope we get Apple level support of hardware.
Well, obviously there are still bugs in hardware drivers on Linux, the point was more that those bugs are not any more common than on any other OS and that Linux probably supports more hardware than some of the Windows operating system versions now.
Apple level of hardware support is hard for Linux because Apple provides that by limiting supported hardware to a tiny, tiny subset of available hardware they produce themselves.
And I thought the year of linux desktop was coming…
HyperfocusSurfer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 May 07:41
nextcollapse
That’s cool and everything, yet we have an itsy-bitsy tiny problem: iirc, there are like 3.5 vendors that have opted into dp alt mode support, and each one I know of kinda sucks. I suppose it might be possible to simply enable it in software by changing the devicetree on usb3 devices or something if the port the vendor decided to route is the one multiplexed with dp, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
HyperfocusSurfer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 May 09:17
collapse
Samsungs mostly, also shift and a few older models. Although, some have a crutch called displaylink, which basically encapsulates video signal over USB in software, while dp alt mode kinda* connects those same wires to the displayport output of the SoC (which is better due to having little to no overhead as well as ~no need for specialized overcomplicated hardware).
Also, some of the older models, like my beloved oneplus 6, don’t even support USB 3, so dp alt mode is physically impossible for those.
* iirc, on qualcomms at least the SoC itself multiplexes USB 3 with dp (as in, it can be configured to output usb3 or dp on the same data lines), but I’m not sure how the switching itself is triggered, so there may or may not be a need to add another IC that’ll handle communications over CC lines and tell the SoC when to use which. I personally suppose the SoCs should be able to handle everything themselves, tho.
Oh neat, I thought it was all DP-protocol via software over USB-C. I didn’t know it could wired straight into display hardware too
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
on 03 May 12:03
nextcollapse
Fairphones support it :) I actually tested this out earlier (the initial screen mirroring implementation that was added in android 15) and it worked well. Hub functionality works too with mouse and keyboard being plugged into the screen.
ITeeTechMonkey@lemmy.world
on 03 May 10:16
nextcollapse
The Motorola Atrix 4G had a Desktop Mode (Webtop was its name and it was Ubuntu based) in 2011 before Samsung. They even released a cradle dock, that you could connect to a tv or monitor, and a laptop dock for it and the source code on Sourceforge (my guess is to be GPL compliant).
I got that phone specifically for the desktop mode. It had a full blown Firefox browser installed and you could run your apps along side it.
I was blown away and thought, “This is the future for computers” but I was incredibly wrong. After the short honeymoon period i found it to be sluggish and clunky when using an android app. The hardware although phenomenal for a phone couldn’t provide an optimal experience for a desktop.
I mean you still gotta press the recording button to record. You want it to auto record every phone call?
njordomir@lemmy.world
on 03 May 19:44
nextcollapse
Yes, that’s how I used to have mine set up. I used to be able to make whitelist for numbers not to record, but otherwise it would just do it automatically for every call. Too many businesses, people, and organizations trying to pull sketchy things. I’ve literally played these recordings back to companies over the phone when they tried to claim they said something different. They record for quality assurance. I record to avoid their scam tactics.
Yes. That’s how my phone is currently set up. My ex-wife is a psychopath, so everything gets recorded and backed up.
I want to love Graphene. I really do. But Jesus fucking christ, every thread the devs get involved with just seems like they’re sniffing their own farts over blatant refusal to implement a feature in any sensible way. System-wide hosts-based adblocking (DNS/always-on VPN is not a reasonable solution) and automatic call recording should be basic-ass features on a custom ROM of this caliber.
neons@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 May 22:27
nextcollapse
GrapheneOS is security-first and they’re very clear about this. Them adhering to their principles even if it means a bit more inconvenience isn’t “sniffing their own farts”.
If it isn’t for you, that’s fine. It was designed for joirnlists, whistleblowers and other people who could be targeted. And the team refusing to add stuff to protect them is absolutely legit.
I would like to appeal to you to be nicer to teams of foss-software. They could probably make a lot more money if they worked for a corporation. They could charge money for licences for grapheneos. But they don’t. They work on it and make it available for everyone simply from the goodness of their hearts.
It is their project, not ours. we aren’t entitled to anything. If we make demands and/or throw fits, we will simply demoralize them and cause them to quit developement, leaving us all as losers, without such a great project.
So instead of being negative and critizising them, I’d be happy if we could say thank you to @grapheneos@grapheneos.social . because their heartblood makes grapheneos what it is today and my phone a lot better.
Nowhere did I criticize the work they put into their ROM, nor demand that they add features (Volte when sir?). I have looked into modifying a stock ROM for my own tastes, and frankly, I simply don’t have the skills for that kind of thing. I absolutely respect the work that goes into FOSS projects and products, and donate when I am able.
That said, it’s entirely possible to both recognize the effort that goes to creating a custom ROM of this caliber, and also point out that the Graphene devs are, in fact, pompous assholes about it. Especially whenever someone brings up rooting it (and yes, I am aware of the security implications).
ladfrombrad@lemdro.id
on 03 May 22:53
nextcollapse
You want it to auto record every phone call?
Yes. That’s how my phone is currently set up. My ex-wife is a psychopath, so everything gets recorded and backed up.
I’ve got to ask you something here and it’ll probably sound weird, but here in the UK if you did that you’d probably be in for a hard time, legally standing recording others without informing them.
But I’m more curious how often you listen back to these phone calls since you say you record each one, and do you keep lots of them/off-site etc?
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 04 May 02:36
nextcollapse
I’ve got to ask you something here and it’ll probably sound weird, but here in the UK if you did that you’d probably be in for a hard time, legally standing recording others without informing them.
Not weird at all! I did my homework before implementing it. I’m in a single-party consent state (Utah), and so is my ex-wife (Idaho). No consent required as long as one party (I.e. me) is informed.
But I’m more curious how often you listen back to these phone calls since you say you record each one, and do you keep lots of them/off-site etc?
They’re recorded in .opus format, so a 5 minute call, for example, is barely 500 kilobytes. And yes I have reviewed many of them, especially during my divorce some years back. They are stored on my phone which 1) syncs to my NAS via Syncthing and 2) uploads to Google Drive tied to a Workspace account that I pay for.
I don’t hide the fact that I record my calls, everyone who knows me knows this fact, including my wife (I am happily remarried). I also back up my texts, going back almost a decade now, which came in handy during the divorce.
I’m also in a one-party consent country, and I’ve found it sometimes useful to get back to some calls just to find out some details, such as agreed date/time or some detail of a discussion I had with my mother. I would enjoy an automatic text translation to be stored alongside them.
I miss the feature now that I have Pixel 8.
I used syncthing to sync them to PC. Size-wise I have so few phone calls (work meetings excluded, which they are as they are over Slack/Teams) that all of them will fit most any modern phone easily.
You don't need to use a DNS service or VPN service to filter remotely. You can filter locally via the VPN service feature, including while using a VPN if you want.
You should follow our advice and do it with an app like RethinkDNS providing support for both local filtering and optionally using WireGuard VPNs at the same time including chained VPNs.
GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social
on 03 May 22:41
collapse
Why do you want to have a slow, legacy and hard to debug implementation of domain-based filtering instead of managing it with an app?
Domain-based filtering is also very limited in what it can since it's trivially bypassed by apps or web sites using IPs or doing their own DNS resolution, which is fairly widely adopted. For example, WhatsApp will still work with the domains blocked. In practice, you'll also only be filtering domains not used for useful functionality.
every thread the devs get involved with just seems like they’re sniffing their own farts
Dont get me wrong, I think you guys make a great ROM. However, no advice was requested here, yet you tagged me in multiple consecutive comments chock full of unsolicited advice. Plus, in the first comment, you suggested “RethinkDNS”, which depends on their own DNS servers. How do I know that this service, which I have literally never heard of in my 14 years of fucking with Android devices and ROMs and adblockers until maybe 6 months ago, isn’t just a honeypot? Or will even exist after Trump is done raping the USA? I see they use DNS over HTTPS, but I defer to my previous (rhetorical) question.
I wouldn’t think a security and privacy-focused ROM should be recommending anything but a locally hosted option. But as others have said, this is your guys’ project and you’re free to implement it how you see fit. And it is a solid ROM. But apparently it’s not for me.
cantences@anonsys.net
on 04 May 06:29
nextcollapse
@lka1988 Which customrom and dnsblocking are you using?
Don’t worry about that. I’ve already had to drag her to court when she tried to keep the kids with her last year, causing them to miss the first few weeks of school. The judge was not happy with her.
rageagainstmachines@lemmy.world
on 03 May 19:45
nextcollapse
Where/how?
dhhyfddehhfyy4673@fedia.io
on 03 May 20:06
collapse
There's a button on the call screen.
rageagainstmachines@lemmy.world
on 03 May 20:10
collapse
Screenshot? I don’t seem to have that.
dhhyfddehhfyy4673@fedia.io
on 03 May 20:18
collapse
Call recording functionality within the Dialer app using modern Android storage with recordings stored in Recordings/Call Recordings and no restrictions based on region or special cases like playing a recording tone (users are still responsible for complying with their local laws).
Says there's no region block, so not sure why it wouldn't be there for you.
Edit: the button only shows up when a call connects & it's on the bottom right.
rageagainstmachines@lemmy.world
on 06 May 15:01
collapse
Strange. I’m not seeing it. This is within the default phone app correct?
Banking apps don’t work on GrapheneOS thanks to Play Integrity APIs, so you probably need to root to get them to work.
If you need to root anyway, might as well use BCR.
dhhyfddehhfyy4673@fedia.io
on 03 May 20:43
collapse
Fair enough if those are deal breakers for anyone; just letting people know. Automatic would be nice, but couldn't care less about banking apps personally.
I currently have and use a Samsung Galaxy S24+. Not sure what you mean by CSC.
There is a default voice recorder app included with the phone which can be used for meetings or other recordings. But when I make a phone call there is an extra button on screen. When clicking the button it informs the caller that the call is being recorded for legal reasons. Any recording that goes thru that app is able to be transcribed.
I very much doubt that, since Google removed the call recording APIs. But if someone can tell how it would work on recent Android, I would love being proven wrong.
And to install a custom ROM you need to unlock your boot loader and root it anyways. Do custom roms even come with a non-root option? I haven’t done it in years.
You… Dont need to root your device to install a custom rom?
You can very well unlock your device, flash a custom rom, and use it unrooted. Nowadays quite a lot of custom rom come with a kernel prepatched for KSU, but that’s obviously not a requirement…
And they chose to highlight as a feature making it like a pC, “you also get Windows PC–like abilities such as snapping windows to the left and right of the screen.”
Lyra_Lycan@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 03 May 13:53
collapse
Reminds me of just a few months ago when they sold the Samsung Galaxy S20-something using all the features that come with either Google Gemini 1.5-2.0 or Android 15. All features that my phone has. Nothing unique but the homegrown app store nobody likes
Dindonmasker@sh.itjust.works
on 03 May 13:42
nextcollapse
I’m excited to see how this will pair with android XR to potentially have a good desktop experience on the go. Just have to carry the headset wich i already do and mouse and keyboard for better controls.
My old note9 did it too. Handy in a pinch and great when I forget my laptop but still wanted to pretend to work at work
flop_leash_973@lemmy.world
on 03 May 18:34
nextcollapse
I used to think the idea of a phone that is also my desktop would be really cool. But then I got to thinking just how locked down iOS and to a lesser extent Android are compared to Linux/Windows/MacOS, and decided I wouldn’t use my Pixel as a replacement for my desktop or laptop even if the feature was there.
To the best of my knowledge they give you a full Debian Linux in a container. Combine this with AOSP, and IMHO this is totally cool. Especially since my Netbook has worse specs than my current smartphone! :-)
On a serious note, what can’t you do with your Pixel?
The only issues I’ve had is I can’t access networking functions. Beyond that, not much limits in most things I do. And with Android 16 allowing for installing Linux apps (not just terminal ones, but full graphical ones like VS Code, Blender 3D, etc), there is little I can’t see it not being able to do. (No Wireshark though, but that’s networking, the only painful point for me).
flop_leash_973@lemmy.world
on 03 May 20:17
collapse
TLDR: I don’t like the philosophy behind how Android and iOS devices are created and managed by their OEMs nearly enough to give them near total control over what I can do today or in the future with my primary computing platforms.
Its not a specific thing I can’t do that I want to do that stops me from liking it.
Its that it is a specific OS image bound to a specific hardware model that is very limited in what options or upgrades or changes are available to me.
With a Framework laptop (or most other generic models) or a generic ATX desktop tower I can replace whatever internal component if need be and then put whatever base OS on it, just because I want to do that.
With a Pixel, or Galaxy, or iPhone it runs the OS it came with and is blessed by the OEM on the hardware they compiled it to run on. Unless I am willing to accept large inconveniences in functionality and usability.
If I replace my desktop/laptop with a Pixel running Debian for desktop mode, now Google has vastly more control over what my desktop experience is going to be via their control of the hardware and host OS layer than they do today. If they decide they don’t want something being done in that Debian container in the future for some reason, then they can stop me from doing it with little recourse for me as a user.
Yes and no. I absolutely understand what you mean. And I was the same.
But then my tech-autism caused me to dig into cybersecurity and now I actually disagree with you.
I.E. have I completely stopped doing any type of banking on a device that isn’t running a completely locked down iOS or Android.
flop_leash_973@lemmy.world
on 03 May 22:27
nextcollapse
It is not a security thing to me. It is a “I want to do what I want to do with the things I paid for” thing.
I know full well something so locked down is technically more secure, but using those platforms as my primary devices would cause a lose of device flexibility I have no interest in taking part in for the use cases of a desktop or laptop.
Those platforms have their place, just like my video game consoles. But I am not interested in making anything I consider important contingent on something that is more at the whims of the company that made it than me.
Locked down means a power imbalance. The users are then just serf and will be abused. I want users empowered and the right to repair, repurposed and upgrade. Locked down devices mean short lived disposable devices, built as ewaste, that hoover up user data when used. It’s dystopian.
Let alone where are tomorrow’s developers coming from when they are growing up in such nutrient poor environment.
I rage against this dark serfdom future, but it’s on law makers to regulate to keep consumers/user free. So I’ve monthly donated to OpenRightsGroup for over a decade and always telling people to read some Cory Doctorow.
I.E. have I completely stopped doing any type of banking on a device that isn’t running a completely locked down iOS or Android.
In my case, I never do any financial transactions (including Google Pay) on my phone. The way I’ve got it configured, my Linux laptop is much more secure and auditable. If someone gets access to my phone, even when it’s logged in, the blast radius is small.
I really like using Dex on my work laptop so I don’t have to mess with logging into personal accounts on them. Too bad Samsung is removing this specific version of Dex in One UI 7.
_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 May 22:56
nextcollapse
You mean they’re going to turn Androids into Chromebooks.
Honestly, it sounds horrible, but for people who don’t have a PC, I guess it could be a benefit.
pulido@lemmings.world
on 03 May 23:23
nextcollapse
It’s great. We need to consider how many people live in 3rd world countries that only have access to Android phones.
If they can hook up a keyboard, mouse, and a monitor to those phones then it empowers these people to have more opportunities to compete and contribute to the digital space.
Giving them access to the tools of developers could be a godsend.
_cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 May 23:40
collapse
No, I’m not arguing that it’s horrible from any other viewpoint than my own. And I’m super privileged enough to be able to both afford and have access to better options.
It might save me from carrying my laptop around when I travel for work. I only ever need to do zoom calls, browsing, and text editing, so just the extra real estate alone would be helpful. But then TVs are hung on angles that are not optimal for working and the ones in hotels have shitty resolutions so I’d probably have to carry my external monitor. In which case, I may as well just bring my laptop instead (or both the laptop and screen).
I think your usecase — for those who don’t have PCs — makes a lot more sense.
embed_me@programming.dev
on 04 May 04:52
nextcollapse
This will make Android tablets a lot more appealing I guess, the ones that come with light keyboards coupled with the cover.
The major uses for me would be reading (web pages, pdfs) and code review or even some light coding. Not saying I will buy one for this but definitely something I would keep in mind for the future.
You mean they’re going to turn Androids into Chromebooks
android is getting ‘desktop’ features so it can replace chrome os, and to keep pace with apple–who’s doing similar things with ios
pulido@lemmings.world
on 03 May 23:27
nextcollapse
You know, I wouldn’t be surprised if this starts a trend of ultra-cheap “laptops” that are just hardware extensions for phones with no processing capabilities of their own.
twice_hatch@midwest.social
on 03 May 23:53
collapse
“Lapdock” seems to be the popular term. They’ve been around more than 10 years but never gone mainstream en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapdock
Ability to recognize non-ASCII characters in the dialer? Nope… Ability to skip auto connect to the Bluetooth device? Nope, never again… Record phone calls? No, fuck you, we don’t like it in US so it is banned to the whole world. Here you are a feature nobody asks for and shut up…
threaded - newest
!savedyouaclick@lemmy.world
It seems this is an instance where the headline tells the full story
Now the question is if people will be stupid enough to replace all the freedoms their desktop OS still gives them with the vendor controlled shit show that is mobile OS.
Narrator: They did.
My guess is that people who would use DEX is also people who are satisfied with ChromeOS. Which is just as closed down.
Hopefully, when Android does this, they will be under same gatekeeper restrictions in the EU as Windows.
I use DEX (not directly to the monitor, but the desktop app) to have easier access to my personal Firefox and messenger apps when I’m at work. I don’t want to run any of my personal stuff on the work laptop (not even in a VM) and I hate typing on the phone’s tiny touch keyboard, so DEX is a great alternative.
It’s great that we’re losing this feature in OneUI 7. Makes me never want to buy another Samsung phone ever again.
Dude I tired DEX once, I saw I couldn’t rotate the monitor or even find some type of settings and I never tried it again.
i‘m hyped for a graphene desktop mode. that wouldn’t be a replacement for my laptop/ desktop computers but still very much sick. and if i can run a terminal with neovim and tmux or ssh into other machines it would be a dope backup/ micro setup. probably not very useful, but fun i think
I have a dying laptop and am very much interested in replacing it with my phone + Nexdock (or similar)
I’m not an android user, but doesn’t it let you do whatever you want? What things can’t a person do using Android as a desktop that a windows or mac user can do?
Android is very much designed with every application in its own little silo that needs the permission of the OS vendor or something off-device (like a cloud service both apps access) to communicate with each other. This means, among other things, a very limited ability to do software development on the device and run your own applications, a very limited ability to automate applications, no chaining of workflows (e.g. read some sensor in one app, process the data in another, graph it in a third). You also generally don’t have administrator/root access on the device and if you do get around that restriction a lot of the applications for things like banks will refuse to work. You can’t properly control which data your device collects and where it sends it. Your ability to debug the behavior of your own applications and device is severely limited.
Thanks for the heads up. This is good to know.
I typically use my work computer for just zoom meetings. I could see my possibly being able to replace my work computer with this.
Of course I’d still keep Linux on my personal laptop.
I recently saw terminal access as a feature of Android 16 too, so if you have su access, that should give you all the power you need. Now let’s hope root will become standard, instead of needing to flash Magisk.
Still won’t save you from the complete isolation of the apps from each other, only allowing you to exchange data between them at the OS maker’s generosity.
I’m not sure if I understand what you’re talking about exactly. With root I can access all files on my device (including /data/data, where app internal files are kept) and I can give permission to apps to access all files too, it they ask for it. Not that I’d want that, because it’s way safer to keep user data in /storage/emulated/0 and give read permissions on file or folder level (like /Pictures for a gallery app, or just the picture I want to share for a social media app).
If you want to share data between apps, the easiest way would be to give them access to the same folder in user space. That isn’t OS maker’s generosity, that’s basic security controls.
I think they’re talking about Android “Intends” which is the thing used by apps to communicate with each other.
I have no clue how the OS handles the underlying things tho…
I don’t want them to talk to each other.
It gives you terminal access to a Debian VM, not the Android subsystem.
If you sit in a room and you can see the bars, you know you are trapped, if you sit in a room, but you cant see the bars, you are going to think you are free
That ship has sailed. Hence this being called a "post-PC era".
100% they will and want this. I’m a power user and even I see this as the future.
Have you worked in a non-tech field with people? Modern OSs and office apps are not intuitive to them. Hell, a lot have problems with just their phones as is.
I suppose you mean the same effect I have noticed with our younger apprentices who know very little about the way computers work anymore since they grew up with phones only, they don’t even know what a file system is any more.
Some older, some younger, yeah.
Yeah… I dont see this happening. Android has 99% shovelware crap. I dont see how any professional would be able to use Android instead of Windows, MacOS or Linux.
Android is garbage, and I’m saying this as an android user… The moment a serious Linux alternative is here for phones I’m gone (yes I’m aware Android is technically also “Linux”).
Just a few examples: the file system is a mess, good luck trying to easily save on network drives. There is no decent office suite and again using the files system to save documents in Android is a shitshow. There are Adobe products but they’re all watered down shitty versions of the desktop ones, the alternatives are even worse. Around every corner google tries to push it’s shitty cloud subscriptions, the telemetry is insane even compared to windows.
No Android is definitely not the future chromebooks were a mess too. And knowing Google they’ll just give up on anything they don’t seem profitable enough so even if they tried on desktop they’ll just pull the plug after 2 years.
If people complain about Linux being hard… give android a try as desktop OS it’s probably 10x worse. At least Linux comes with a decent office suite and decent networking capabilities.
You underestimate how much professional work is done via the web browser and RDP these days. I am a Cloud Engineer (basically do virtualization work) and could easily get by using a phone as my main work system. Most of the time I am using MS office apps that are basically just wrappers for their web versions anyways, and on a VPN connected to some server. All doable from samsung dex already, I just dont use it because multi monitor is important to my work flow
What freedoms are you referring to?
Unless you invested a lot of money and time, you are certainly already running an OS with a lot of BLOBs at the most important parts (WIFI driver, etc).
Given AOSP and a decent smartphone, I am basically at exactly the same level I am with running Linux on my desktop. Actually, the smartphone could be better, if it is a Pixel, because at least I’ll have 100% hardware support. … and again, AFAIK one will be able to run Debian in a virtual environment.
Long story short: I would never buy hardware with vendor lock in, but middle to high class Android smartphones are actually standardized hardware which run excellent with Linux. Total win for me.
The times when you couldn’t get PCs with 100% hardware support on Linux were 15+ years ago. You can still find the occasional one today that doesn’t have it but it is not hard to get 100% support.
… I do not want to argue with you and Linux hardware support certainly is much better than decades ago (I was there, I know :-P) … but even my hardware, which was bought with Linux support in mind, I have several problems… one of my laptops WIFI card has problems with Linux sleep mode, one of my Lenovo machines has audio trouble with the microphone after being used for longer online calls and the list goes on. I hope that I am just very unlucky with my hardware picks, but when you have known hardware components in a mass produced device like Google Pixel, I hope we get Apple level support of hardware.
Well, obviously there are still bugs in hardware drivers on Linux, the point was more that those bugs are not any more common than on any other OS and that Linux probably supports more hardware than some of the Windows operating system versions now.
Apple level of hardware support is hard for Linux because Apple provides that by limiting supported hardware to a tiny, tiny subset of available hardware they produce themselves.
And I thought the year of linux desktop was coming…
That’s cool and everything, yet we have an itsy-bitsy tiny problem: iirc, there are like 3.5 vendors that have opted into dp alt mode support, and each one I know of kinda sucks. I suppose it might be possible to simply enable it in software by changing the devicetree on usb3 devices or something if the port the vendor decided to route is the one multiplexed with dp, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Explain the DP alt mode
That lets a USB C port function as a DisplayPort output so you can connect the phone to a monitor without using some laggy wireless streaming crap.
I thought that all USB-C phones had that feature
Samsungs mostly, also shift and a few older models. Although, some have a crutch called displaylink, which basically encapsulates video signal over USB in software, while dp alt mode kinda* connects those same wires to the displayport output of the SoC (which is better due to having little to no overhead as well as ~no need for specialized overcomplicated hardware).
Also, some of the older models, like my beloved oneplus 6, don’t even support USB 3, so dp alt mode is physically impossible for those.
* iirc, on qualcomms at least the SoC itself multiplexes USB 3 with dp (as in, it can be configured to output usb3 or dp on the same data lines), but I’m not sure how the switching itself is triggered, so there may or may not be a need to add another IC that’ll handle communications over CC lines and tell the SoC when to use which. I personally suppose the SoCs should be able to handle everything themselves, tho.
Oh neat, I thought it was all DP-protocol via software over USB-C. I didn’t know it could wired straight into display hardware too
Fairphones support it :) I actually tested this out earlier (the initial screen mirroring implementation that was added in android 15) and it worked well. Hub functionality works too with mouse and keyboard being plugged into the screen.
<img alt="" src="https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/7825dccc-5400-46ea-8c1a-e5dc659956d8.jpeg">
That’s because there’s not really any reason for them to implement it. This will give them a reason.
Cool. Samsung did this a decade ago though.
Everyone is abandoning Android with a passion thanks to Google’s bullshit.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/970f6318-b0c7-409d-b86d-a5e6ff1b0c11.jpeg">
But yeah. Fuck Google
Ubuntu did this a decade ago too
The Motorola Atrix 4G had a Desktop Mode (Webtop was its name and it was Ubuntu based) in 2011 before Samsung. They even released a cradle dock, that you could connect to a tv or monitor, and a laptop dock for it and the source code on Sourceforge (my guess is to be GPL compliant).
I got that phone specifically for the desktop mode. It had a full blown Firefox browser installed and you could run your apps along side it.
I was blown away and thought, “This is the future for computers” but I was incredibly wrong. After the short honeymoon period i found it to be sluggish and clunky when using an android app. The hardware although phenomenal for a phone couldn’t provide an optimal experience for a desktop.
Yeah they were a little too early and the hardware of the time couldn’t power it appropriately.
What do you mean?
Cool. But then you have to buy and deal with a Samsung.
And it’s only on their premium phones.
Microsoft tried the same idea about 10 years ago with Continuum, even including a hardware dongle: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Continuum learn.microsoft.com/en-us/…/continuum-phone
Canonical had something similar, too, back in the days with their Ubuntu Touch and named it Convergence: linux.com/…/first-ubuntu-touch-tablet-brings-conv…
Cool. Now let me legally record my phone calls without rooting my phone.
Built-in to GrapheneOS for a while now.
CalyxOS also has it (though they block it where it’s illegal).
Except it’s not automatic
I mean you still gotta press the recording button to record. You want it to auto record every phone call?
Yes, that’s how I used to have mine set up. I used to be able to make whitelist for numbers not to record, but otherwise it would just do it automatically for every call. Too many businesses, people, and organizations trying to pull sketchy things. I’ve literally played these recordings back to companies over the phone when they tried to claim they said something different. They record for quality assurance. I record to avoid their scam tactics.
Yes. That’s how my phone is currently set up. My ex-wife is a psychopath, so everything gets recorded and backed up.
I want to love Graphene. I really do. But Jesus fucking christ, every thread the devs get involved with just seems like they’re sniffing their own farts over blatant refusal to implement a feature in any sensible way. System-wide hosts-based adblocking (DNS/always-on VPN is not a reasonable solution) and automatic call recording should be basic-ass features on a custom ROM of this caliber.
GrapheneOS is security-first and they’re very clear about this. Them adhering to their principles even if it means a bit more inconvenience isn’t “sniffing their own farts”.
If it isn’t for you, that’s fine. It was designed for joirnlists, whistleblowers and other people who could be targeted. And the team refusing to add stuff to protect them is absolutely legit.
I would like to appeal to you to be nicer to teams of foss-software. They could probably make a lot more money if they worked for a corporation. They could charge money for licences for grapheneos. But they don’t. They work on it and make it available for everyone simply from the goodness of their hearts.
It is their project, not ours. we aren’t entitled to anything. If we make demands and/or throw fits, we will simply demoralize them and cause them to quit developement, leaving us all as losers, without such a great project.
So instead of being negative and critizising them, I’d be happy if we could say thank you to @grapheneos@grapheneos.social . because their heartblood makes grapheneos what it is today and my phone a lot better.
Nowhere did I criticize the work they put into their ROM, nor demand that they add features (Volte when sir?). I have looked into modifying a stock ROM for my own tastes, and frankly, I simply don’t have the skills for that kind of thing. I absolutely respect the work that goes into FOSS projects and products, and donate when I am able.
That said, it’s entirely possible to both recognize the effort that goes to creating a custom ROM of this caliber, and also point out that the Graphene devs are, in fact, pompous assholes about it. Especially whenever someone brings up rooting it (and yes, I am aware of the security implications).
I’ve got to ask you something here and it’ll probably sound weird, but here in the UK if you did that you’d probably be in for a hard time, legally standing recording others without informing them.
But I’m more curious how often you listen back to these phone calls since you say you record each one, and do you keep lots of them/off-site etc?
Not weird at all! I did my homework before implementing it. I’m in a single-party consent state (Utah), and so is my ex-wife (Idaho). No consent required as long as one party (I.e. me) is informed.
They’re recorded in
.opusformat, so a 5 minute call, for example, is barely 500 kilobytes. And yes I have reviewed many of them, especially during my divorce some years back. They are stored on my phone which 1) syncs to my NAS via Syncthing and 2) uploads to Google Drive tied to a Workspace account that I pay for.I don’t hide the fact that I record my calls, everyone who knows me knows this fact, including my wife (I am happily remarried). I also back up my texts, going back almost a decade now, which came in handy during the divorce.
Appreciate the insight, thank you!
I’m also in a one-party consent country, and I’ve found it sometimes useful to get back to some calls just to find out some details, such as agreed date/time or some detail of a discussion I had with my mother. I would enjoy an automatic text translation to be stored alongside them.
I miss the feature now that I have Pixel 8.
I used syncthing to sync them to PC. Size-wise I have so few phone calls (work meetings excluded, which they are as they are over Slack/Teams) that all of them will fit most any modern phone easily.
Again, thanks for the insight!
Did a little searching and it seems you could script this to transcribe your calls
github.com/openai/whisper
@lka1988 @pineapplelover
> System-wide hosts-based adblocking
That's not a good way to do it.
> DNS/always-on VPN is not a reasonable solution
You don't need to use a DNS service or VPN service to filter remotely. You can filter locally via the VPN service feature, including while using a VPN if you want.
You should follow our advice and do it with an app like RethinkDNS providing support for both local filtering and optionally using WireGuard VPNs at the same time including chained VPNs.
@lka1988 @pineapplelover
Why do you want to have a slow, legacy and hard to debug implementation of domain-based filtering instead of managing it with an app?
Domain-based filtering is also very limited in what it can since it's trivially bypassed by apps or web sites using IPs or doing their own DNS resolution, which is fairly widely adopted. For example, WhatsApp will still work with the domains blocked. In practice, you'll also only be filtering domains not used for useful functionality.
Thank you for proving my point:
Dont get me wrong, I think you guys make a great ROM. However, no advice was requested here, yet you tagged me in multiple consecutive comments chock full of unsolicited advice. Plus, in the first comment, you suggested “RethinkDNS”, which depends on their own DNS servers. How do I know that this service, which I have literally never heard of in my 14 years of fucking with Android devices and ROMs and adblockers until maybe 6 months ago, isn’t just a honeypot? Or will even exist after Trump is done raping the USA? I see they use DNS over HTTPS, but I defer to my previous (rhetorical) question.
I wouldn’t think a security and privacy-focused ROM should be recommending anything but a locally hosted option. But as others have said, this is your guys’ project and you’re free to implement it how you see fit. And it is a solid ROM. But apparently it’s not for me.
@lka1988
Which customrom and dnsblocking are you using?
Honestly I’d just suggest telling your ex-wife that it’s email only from now on.
Don’t worry about that. I’ve already had to drag her to court when she tried to keep the kids with her last year, causing them to miss the first few weeks of school. The judge was not happy with her.
Where/how?
There's a button on the call screen.
Screenshot? I don’t seem to have that.
https://grapheneos.org/features#other-features
Says there's no region block, so not sure why it wouldn't be there for you.
Edit: the button only shows up when a call connects & it's on the bottom right.
Strange. I’m not seeing it. This is within the default phone app correct?
Two problems:
If you need to root anyway, might as well use BCR.
Fair enough if those are deal breakers for anyone; just letting people know. Automatic would be nice, but couldn't care less about banking apps personally.
Can i install grapheneos on Xiaomi
For users with a Samsung Flagship phone, if you have the “One UI 7” update, they just recently added this feature.
You used be able to run Linux apps too, but they pulled it all back because they are only good at creating bloatware.
Do you have such a phone? What CSC does it have?
I currently have and use a Samsung Galaxy S24+. Not sure what you mean by CSC.
There is a default voice recorder app included with the phone which can be used for meetings or other recordings. But when I make a phone call there is an extra button on screen. When clicking the button it informs the caller that the call is being recorded for legal reasons. Any recording that goes thru that app is able to be transcribed.
itechhacks.com/find-your-samsung-galaxy-csc-regio…
You probably happen to have one of the CSCs that has native call recording enabled.
Everyone else needs to either root their phone or change the CSC somehow.
I’m not sure if the feature is region locked or not. I didn’t have to worry about any of that. This feature is brand new with the One UI 7 update.
youtube.com/shorts/Za1Md_WtHZk
OneUI 7.0.
And one UI 6.0 and one UI 5.0. My Samsung phones have done this for as long as I can remember
Anything on Android 11 and below, at least, before the regulations were put in effect to take the feature from newer releases
Maybe it was just the flagship phones that had it? I had Dex on my note 20 and s24ultra without interruption.
OneUI 7 actually downgrades the Dex experience by removing the feature to launch it in Windows, so we gain some features and lose some.
There is an app called CubeACR which does exactly that on unrooted devices.
I very much doubt that, since Google removed the call recording APIs. But if someone can tell how it would work on recent Android, I would love being proven wrong.
I mean it works on my device which is on Android 15. Not sure how exactly it works though. Just give it a shot and see for yourself?
play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.catalin…
Nowadays you don’t even need to root your phone; certains custom roms do that by default
And to install a custom ROM you need to unlock your boot loader and root it anyways. Do custom roms even come with a non-root option? I haven’t done it in years.
You don’t have to root to install custom ROM
Grapheneos doesn’t require root before install or allow root after install
You… Dont need to root your device to install a custom rom? You can very well unlock your device, flash a custom rom, and use it unrooted. Nowadays quite a lot of custom rom come with a kernel prepatched for KSU, but that’s obviously not a requirement…
do you think I am masochist or what, better give me gnu/linux on mobile ;)
Still waiting for the year of the linux phone…
If you want deskktop version of Firefox or Chromium on your phone, you can get them using Termux. But yeah they will be slow.
I swear they’ve been writing the same article for a year.
Much longer than that. But that’s probably because Google keeps picking it up and then dropping it again.
And they chose to highlight as a feature making it like a pC, “you also get Windows PC–like abilities such as snapping windows to the left and right of the screen.”
Reminds me of just a few months ago when they sold the Samsung Galaxy S20-something using all the features that come with either Google Gemini 1.5-2.0 or Android 15. All features that my phone has. Nothing unique but the homegrown app store nobody likes
I’m excited to see how this will pair with android XR to potentially have a good desktop experience on the go. Just have to carry the headset wich i already do and mouse and keyboard for better controls.
Didn’t canonical try this years ago?
I thought it was part of their justification for Mir like a decade ago.
Hopefully this means I can have a GraphineOS laptop (whenever google makes a new Pixel Laptop)
Sweet that it’s all of android now. I’ve had it on my note 20 ultra for the past 5 years.
My old note9 did it too. Handy in a pinch and great when I forget my laptop but still wanted to pretend to work at work
I used to think the idea of a phone that is also my desktop would be really cool. But then I got to thinking just how locked down iOS and to a lesser extent Android are compared to Linux/Windows/MacOS, and decided I wouldn’t use my Pixel as a replacement for my desktop or laptop even if the feature was there.
To the best of my knowledge they give you a full Debian Linux in a container. Combine this with AOSP, and IMHO this is totally cool. Especially since my Netbook has worse specs than my current smartphone! :-)
If networking and GUI gets added then we’re talking
On a serious note, what can’t you do with your Pixel? The only issues I’ve had is I can’t access networking functions. Beyond that, not much limits in most things I do. And with Android 16 allowing for installing Linux apps (not just terminal ones, but full graphical ones like VS Code, Blender 3D, etc), there is little I can’t see it not being able to do. (No Wireshark though, but that’s networking, the only painful point for me).
TLDR: I don’t like the philosophy behind how Android and iOS devices are created and managed by their OEMs nearly enough to give them near total control over what I can do today or in the future with my primary computing platforms.
Its not a specific thing I can’t do that I want to do that stops me from liking it.
Its that it is a specific OS image bound to a specific hardware model that is very limited in what options or upgrades or changes are available to me.
With a Framework laptop (or most other generic models) or a generic ATX desktop tower I can replace whatever internal component if need be and then put whatever base OS on it, just because I want to do that.
With a Pixel, or Galaxy, or iPhone it runs the OS it came with and is blessed by the OEM on the hardware they compiled it to run on. Unless I am willing to accept large inconveniences in functionality and usability.
If I replace my desktop/laptop with a Pixel running Debian for desktop mode, now Google has vastly more control over what my desktop experience is going to be via their control of the hardware and host OS layer than they do today. If they decide they don’t want something being done in that Debian container in the future for some reason, then they can stop me from doing it with little recourse for me as a user.
Yes and no. I absolutely understand what you mean. And I was the same.
But then my tech-autism caused me to dig into cybersecurity and now I actually disagree with you.
I.E. have I completely stopped doing any type of banking on a device that isn’t running a completely locked down iOS or Android.
It is not a security thing to me. It is a “I want to do what I want to do with the things I paid for” thing.
I know full well something so locked down is technically more secure, but using those platforms as my primary devices would cause a lose of device flexibility I have no interest in taking part in for the use cases of a desktop or laptop.
Those platforms have their place, just like my video game consoles. But I am not interested in making anything I consider important contingent on something that is more at the whims of the company that made it than me.
Locked down means a power imbalance. The users are then just serf and will be abused. I want users empowered and the right to repair, repurposed and upgrade. Locked down devices mean short lived disposable devices, built as ewaste, that hoover up user data when used. It’s dystopian.
Let alone where are tomorrow’s developers coming from when they are growing up in such nutrient poor environment.
I rage against this dark serfdom future, but it’s on law makers to regulate to keep consumers/user free. So I’ve monthly donated to OpenRightsGroup for over a decade and always telling people to read some Cory Doctorow.
In my case, I never do any financial transactions (including Google Pay) on my phone. The way I’ve got it configured, my Linux laptop is much more secure and auditable. If someone gets access to my phone, even when it’s logged in, the blast radius is small.
I really like using Dex on my work laptop so I don’t have to mess with logging into personal accounts on them. Too bad Samsung is removing this specific version of Dex in One UI 7.
You mean they’re going to turn Androids into Chromebooks.
Honestly, it sounds horrible, but for people who don’t have a PC, I guess it could be a benefit.
It’s great. We need to consider how many people live in 3rd world countries that only have access to Android phones.
If they can hook up a keyboard, mouse, and a monitor to those phones then it empowers these people to have more opportunities to compete and contribute to the digital space.
Giving them access to the tools of developers could be a godsend.
No, I’m not arguing that it’s horrible from any other viewpoint than my own. And I’m super privileged enough to be able to both afford and have access to better options.
It might save me from carrying my laptop around when I travel for work. I only ever need to do zoom calls, browsing, and text editing, so just the extra real estate alone would be helpful. But then TVs are hung on angles that are not optimal for working and the ones in hotels have shitty resolutions so I’d probably have to carry my external monitor. In which case, I may as well just bring my laptop instead (or both the laptop and screen).
I think your usecase — for those who don’t have PCs — makes a lot more sense.
This will make Android tablets a lot more appealing I guess, the ones that come with light keyboards coupled with the cover.
The major uses for me would be reading (web pages, pdfs) and code review or even some light coding. Not saying I will buy one for this but definitely something I would keep in mind for the future.
android is getting ‘desktop’ features so it can replace chrome os, and to keep pace with apple–who’s doing similar things with ios
You know, I wouldn’t be surprised if this starts a trend of ultra-cheap “laptops” that are just hardware extensions for phones with no processing capabilities of their own.
“Lapdock” seems to be the popular term. They’ve been around more than 10 years but never gone mainstream en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapdock
Really fricking cool!
Thank you for sharing this.
Dex was kind of nifty if you had a monitor laying around. I’m guessing this is the non-Samsung version feature.
or they we’re forced to give
This paired with virtualization features (hopefully with working sommelier) potentially enable running desktop wayland apps on phone.
To run waydroid on it
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3d944ff9-b34a-4f8a-ae37-6b2c044684d8.jpeg">
What BS!
Ability to recognize non-ASCII characters in the dialer? Nope… Ability to skip auto connect to the Bluetooth device? Nope, never again… Record phone calls? No, fuck you, we don’t like it in US so it is banned to the whole world. Here you are a feature nobody asks for and shut up…
The auto connect for bluethooth is really infuriating. Windows and android both don’t have options for disabling auto connect.
On linux you can only select between trust and no tust which effectively means auto connect. BUT WHY DONT THEY JUST CALL IT AUTO CONNECT.
It’s a real bummer.
PureOS on Purism Librem 5 let you plug-in phone to display and wa-la… actual desktop experience from just phone.
Can we bring back PalmTops ?