Ultrasound can push vaccines into the body without needles
(www.newscientist.com)
from tsonfeir@lemm.ee to technology@lemmy.world on 05 Dec 2023 01:56
https://lemm.ee/post/16954885
from tsonfeir@lemm.ee to technology@lemmy.world on 05 Dec 2023 01:56
https://lemm.ee/post/16954885
Vaccines can be delivered through the skin using ultrasound. This method doesn’t damage the skin and eliminates the need for painful needles. To create a needle-free vaccine, Darcy Dunn-Lawless at the University of Oxford and his colleagues mixed vaccine molecules with tiny, cup-shaped proteins. They then applied liquid mixture to the skin of mice and exposed it to ultrasound – like that used for sonograms – for about a minute and a half.
threaded - newest
Antivaxxers now pro-abortion to avoid forced ultrasound vaccinations.
As interesting as that would be to happen, in reality, there’s just going to be a bunch more people going without pre natal care.
Which is going to be most red states in the next decade. Great time to be in the little coffin business though.
Hey Mr Darwin!
Or E.P. McGovern
Until they run out of land that’s not private property. I think they’ll use mass graves first, then just to bury the bones and teeth that don’t burn.
I fervently wish I’d skipped this thread.
Why are democrats winning? The republican voter base makes decisions that directly affects their health in a negative way.
And here come the conspiracy theories…
No joke. The first thing that popped into my mind when reading the title was: “great, now my father will be afraid to do an ultrasound test”
Now you can be ultrasounded while walking down the street! You wont even notice.
Neat. I wonder if my grandchildren will see that technology in use, because I doubt it’ll happen in my lifetime.
They’re more likely to have “ports” installed. I mean, if people are already lining up to have chips put in their brains…
Ultrasound AKA 5G mind waves.
Gosh, I’m sure they’ll latch on to that one.
Oh man they’re pushing vaccines into us remotely, I knew it!
I think that’s the basic premise of the Star Trek hypospray. Pressure pushing in medicine rather than a needle.
A lot slower, though. Article says it takes a minute and a half.
It takes my kid half an hour of screaming and throwing a public fit just to get within two miles of a needle, so I’ll take it.
Fair enough.
Fwiw, my kid who was like that still hates needles, she just has better ways of coping now. The other kid likes to watch it go in, doesn’t bother her a bit.
Both get an ice cream cone on the way home.
Of course being clenched up with fear makes it more painful too, so at some point not in the middle of the screaming, make sure they know to try to relax that arm muscle even if the rest of their body is rigid with fear. And to remember it’s going to take maybe 10 seconds so don’t pull away. (It will take less, but kids count fast)
It’s too bad we can’t let them do it themselves, it might make it easier.
Also tell the person administering it to do it slowly. In my experience, most of the pain was from them doing it too fast. Something about the fluid stretching the muscle in painful ways before it can spread out, or something.
That tracks with my experience. I’m shot-tolerant, so I have the calmness to observe. Of course, some are also just inherently more irritating/painful than others, and there’s different volumes of liquid as well.
For instance, if you’re shot-averse, get Pfizer Covid rather than Moderna Covid. It’s ⅓ of the size/dose.
Also consider the people who have needle phobias. My heart starts to race before getting a vaccine. If I have to give a blood sample I will faint.
I’m getting woozy talking about this.
That’s weird. My heartrate and blood pressure go down before getting a shot.
Then I go down, and feel like death for a day and like I’m in rehab for a week.
Funny thing, I’m not really getting woozy talking about it (a little, but more sympathetic memory of it).
That's more like a jet injector, which we've already had for a while.
Actual hyposprays have been around since the 60’s. They are, by all account, quite painful and ironically not very hygienic.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_injector
My favorite anecdote, though not necessarily mine, about jet inoculation comes from the army. They had long lines of men to immunize and little time to do it. Walk up, hold still, hear the click, feel the water pierce you, walk away sore. However, if anyone moved even slightly during the process, the needle of water becomes a knife, slicing their shoulder open. It was not a well thought out mechanism.
Who thought this was a good idea?
The 60s. They weren’t all there back then
Fallout is a documentary series.
man a little vaccine needle is the least painful shot, i didn't even feel the last 5 i got until the next day
Yeahhhhhhhhh there is some value here
Signed,
A parent of two children under 5
Intramuscular always caused me soreness, except maybe once. I don’t know what that nurse did differently, I felt the needle sink in, and it hurt; but there was near-zero residual soreness.
History proves we do the cheapest, easiest, and fastest. So allow me to shit all over this idea…
Sure they might develop it faster or make a new more portable thing. But that’s going to take a long long time when no one gives a shit to invest money in a new thing when needles work.
As with all new inventions/procedures, this is just the first step. The process will become faster and more efficient in the future.
In my opinion, this is a great first step towards a Star Trek-like hypospray.
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No one is suggesting this be put in practice in its current form, that would be insane. That said, this is a good first step for alternative forms of vaccination. “First step” being the important part.
I'd like to be an optimist when it comes to things like this, some people really really can't stand needles and something like this would be great for them people. I hope it develops further.
Why can’t we get intranasal vaccines?
Might be useful for those people whose blood doesn’t clot. Though I don’t know if a small syringe needle is even an issue for them anyway
I heard an ad for people scared of dentists - they were offering to put people under.
[More] dangerous and expensive, but better than skipping it altogether.
Gotta be a market for hyper-hypodermic-phobic folks. Even if you & I stick with the five second jab.
There’s more to full sedation than just “scared of dentists”, but it’s a start. Anyone who needs substantial work can get it done in 1 day on full sedation instead of a dozen shorter sessions. yes, “needs substantial work” often relates to “scares of dentists” (or relates to “was too damn poor for dentists”)
And I’m with you on hyper-hypodermic-phobia thing. People don’t realize that “fear of needles” does not manifest as a phobia, but as an acute body response. Getting a shot ruins me for a week, and often involves a doctor’s time because my vasovagal symptoms tend to need a little more expert observation. About 1/3 of the time I stop breathing for a short time. I’ve never needed life-saving measures, but they need to make sure that’s the case (lol).
So for doctor’s offices, it could easily become savings for them because of people who have responses to needles.
A machine that produces ultrasonic waves is not that complex. It’s the sensors and qualified technician to read and capture the scans that’s expensive.
Plus have you ever had to physically restrain your child through a needle shot? You said “easiest” and that shit ain’t easy.
You seem to be the only commenter here who recognizes that this would be amazing for pediatric patients - who coincidentally receive way more vaccines than adults.
I think it depends. I went to an ER once that threw me into a wheelchair when the world was spinning post-blood-draw and dropped me off in the hall saying “You’ll be fine!”. That hospital will never get an Ultrasound injector.
When I got my first COVID vax, however, I took up 20 minutes of the time of 2 on-call doctors and a nurse because my passing out often resembles a seizure. And then I took up one of their very few “just in case” beds for close to 90 minutes. Someone else with a problem with needles waiting for a vax had to wait for the bed to open up. They’d have killed to have said ultrasound injector for people like me.
This is more unsettling than a needle to me.
What do you think about jet injectors?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_injector
This is what I was thinking when reading the title. That one supposedly was cool, because there was no needle, never seen one in action but I presume there also was no bleeding.
Yet we don’t see them used today, apparently the biggest reason was that there was a splashback and retrograde follow and then patient’s blood could end up contaminating the nozzle, so basically it was like using the same needle on multiple patients.
They’re not cool. They’re fast and good for giving lots of shots in a situation where you need to get a lot of people in a hurry - especially if you’re giving multiple vaccinations at the same time.
I got one of those used on me in basic training - a place where you need to vaccinate a few thousand people in about 30 minutes. Each one could do 4 shots at a time, and they had them in multiple configurations so you could get up to 4 in each arm for each “injection” station. We stepped through the line, and you got whatever shots you were missing in your records.
It hurts, like you could imagine a high pressure power washer with a needle-point burst with 4 heads blasting vaccines in your arms. It works, in the machine-like way the military works, and it is highly effective for mass vaccinations. So, I guess it makes it cool, but also it sucks like you’d expect 4-30 vaccines at once would suck.
Grandpa told me about a guy in basic that jerked when they shot it, absolutely tore open his arm.
Fuck that, give me the needle. And I fucking hate needles.
I’m right there with you.
What a wild ride. 😏
I think no. I don’t like needles either, but I’ll deal with those first.
It's how I got some vaccines in gradeschool. To the underside of my upper arm, the fatty bit. Hurt like fuck.
Sweet, now they can charge me $1k for a shot and not use a needle.
Last time I got an ultrasound the hospital charged me $2k. Wanted to confirm nothing was wrong with my kidneys. Turns out I was all good, but now I have an expensive bill to deal with…
$2k is largely the doctors time for the procedure, plus interpretation (sometimes another doctor entirely, particularly when multiple opinions are warranted).
Of course, the equipment probably isn’t cheap either
Edit - damn. Looks like I was very wrong on this one!
In my recent experience, that wasn’t the case. Ultrasound at the ER was $370 for the contracted radiologist. And a whipping $1700 for a 5 minute use of the machine.
90-95% of imaging cost is the technical fee. An ultrasound is usually 0.5 to 1.0 RVUs roughly. So let’s say 1. The RVU rate for radiologists right now is around $45-60 an RVU. So of the $2k for the ultrasound, a Radiologist will make about $50 of it.
I can't wait to hear the crazy conspiracies about this one.
BREAKING NEWS: Republicans leave prenatal care industry in shambles
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Preaching to the choir, yes, but you’re fine lol
Honestly just wasn’t thinking when I posted that. Head empty
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Can we give children vaccines in a way that the only prevention would be to wear a mask???
This would… Possibly work…
I’m diabetic. This would be awesome!!
Miniatyrize ultrasound part, make it communicare with those glucose sensors that are placed on shoulder, make it portable enough and Presto! Artificial pancreas.
Nice Idea!
Even the long application time is no issue there, since you just carry the device with you
I’m dumb…what does being diabetic have to do with inability to get needle vaccines? I’m seriously asking.
If i remember correctly diabetic people have a hard time closing a wound
There’s type 1 and 2 diabetes. I believe type 2 requires you to regularly prick your fingers to test your blood sugar levels several times a day while type 1 requires mandatory insulin shots into your stomach a few times a day. Basically a diabetic fuckin hates needles for good reason and to be able to do that with ultrasound would be rad.
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It could be that if vaccines can be attached to a “cup-like protein” and given through the skin, than maybe insulin could too. Just less needle sticks overall
OHHHHHHH. Jeez it took me way too long for this to click. Thanks!
The pancreas is an organ which produces a hormone called insulin, which regulates the intake of sugar from the blood.
In type 1 diabetics, the pancreas has been damaged by an autoimmune reaction, so they need to monitor their blood sugar and administer insulin to the blood using external equipment.
This can be done manually with a needle and glucose tester for measuring blood sugar, and a syringe for administering insulin, or an insulin pump and continuous glucose monitor, which adhere to the skin and have continuous access to the blood through a cannula.
Being able to administer insulin without a needle or cannula would eliminate a common point of failure in this system. The cannula of an insulin pump can easily become dislodged from the skin when disturbed and leak insulin onto the surface, resulting in high blood sugar and wasted insulin.
Will anyone actually do this, if it takes 1-1.5 minutes and needs a heavy machine?
People who don’t like needles? Or do you mean institutions?
I’m sure there are some people that would help, but I went from blood draws making me nearly pass out to self injecting meth(otrexate) once a week after my RA diagnosis.
A blood draw ruins my week (not exaggerated). If I were diagnosed with diabetes I would end up dead. For me, anything that avoids a needle is worth it.
Exactly. For you it’d likely be worth it. For people like me it’d be a waste - the answer was to nut up. I also require hour-long transfusions every two months. I’m not sure they could do anything but maybe put you under anesthesia for something like that.
Yeah, I really can’t imagine. My wife (who works in the medical field) tried to help me “get used to” needles and I didn’t make a single lick of progress. With my kind of issue, it’s common that the issue gets worse and not better if you get shots more often. Something about my subconscious forming a feedback loop with my reactions to create worse reactions over time. I didn’t stop breathing from shots when the symptoms started when I was 8 or 9, just got dizzy/lightheaded and passed out.
That sounds insanely distressing. I won’t recount my bad experiences. None of them were harmful, but some nurses aren’t as gentle as others.
Yeah. I half-mentioned it elsewhere. I was in an ER and needed to have blood drawn. I was just barely staying conscious by leaning back with an ice pack, but they needed the room so a nurse came in and said “yeah you’re fine” and lugged me from the blood-draw chair into a wheelchair. My wife wanted to hit her (lol) but it took the 2 of them to keep me from hitting the floor instead of the wheelchair because I started to black out from suddenly standing.
Some nurses are idiots.
Jesus. I had a nurse accidentally throw a vial (one of like 11. It was my first RA blood draw) in the biohazard bin. She took one look at me and ripped that box off the wall to carefully extract it, risking herself in the process.
Recently they moved half the infusion staff to another location and a nurse I’d never met, who’s a super nice guy, just isn’t as careful when he’s finishing up as the women have been. First bruise I’ve gotten from them in like two years. My arm looked like I was shooting up heroin or something. No real damage, but it’s unsettling.
Yeah, exactly. And I agree that there’s separate categories for skill, dedication, and niceness. Some folks are damn good but lazy and don’t care, others make up for being “only ok” by trying really hard and caring a lot, and some are just friendly when they screw up. It’s nice to have more than 1 of those 3 at a time. Someone in my family went to a weight loss doctor and asked me to come along. She was the friendliest doctor I’d ever seen… and the appointment finished with “I’m really lost. I don’t think there’s anything else we can try right now. You’re doing everything right”. Don’t know WHAT that was in the spectrum of skill and dedication. Maybe it’s true, maybe she was just giving up. But from what I’ve seen/heard, it’s definitely better than “well try harder, eat less, and workout more” that heavier patients hear from doctors who don’t even ask what they’re eating or what their workout regimen looks like.
I don’t have to deal with a lot of that stuff you do, but I can imagine it since what little I deal with has shown me multiple sides of people (doctors too, I suppose).
My worst was my GP/PCP saying all men are a little ADHD. I got an official diagnosis with ease. Now I use a doctor recommended by a friend and she’s fantastic. All my docs are women now, and I only use men for mental health stuff. It’s worth it hunting down the right people if you can. I’m kinda lucky with my insurance. I use a badass local pharmacy, too, and their competence is mind blowing compared to big corporate pharmacies.
What fucked me up with the nurse was that the first time I met him he just finished the infusion. Took the tape off and pretty much dropped the IV rig. It just bruised a bit, but was distressing to watch. The second time I saw him I was like “oh fuck oh shit” but he had no problems. Got it on the first attempt. Painless. He’s just way too chill on the back end.
This seems suspicious, I’m not sure if it won’t work at all or will kill you, but I wouldn’t go near these without significant testing.
What… Ultrasound is non invasive.
Neat. I'm wondering about the effectiveness with thicker skin in humans.
Luckily, most countries do not allow medical practices without rigorous testing.
But their uncle Jim says that a friend of his knew a guy who got hurt by that.
I’m thinking getting the dosage right will be very difficult
The article says that the dosage is about 700x lower but more antibodies are created. So it doesn’t seem like that’s a real issue
Which is what happens with medical devices.
In other news, conservatives have introduced a bill to outlaw ultrasound machines.
The ultrasound waves are how they activate the 5g tracking chips, it’s all in their plan I got from this website I found on page 68 of Google.
Since vaginal ultrasound is how they detect a “fetal heartbeat” at 6 weeks (the heart isn’t yet formed or pushing any blood, but there’s an electronic pulse) at which point abortion is illegal in many states, that might be a good thing.
Although, as ultrasound is also how my overdue fetus was diagnosed with the umbilical cord wrapped 3x around the neck, leading to a quick C-section and healthy baby, I would rather keep the ultrasound machines and lose the lunatics.
They don’t care about women who are considering abortion. I’d be more worried that they’d implement a less reliable test.
It’s about 3 months here (Swiss). I think that is when neuronal tissue forms?
I knew it, the govment are poisoning us with their 5G waves!
What if 5G radio wave is there to push vaccines hidden in sunscreen into our body? /s
few inches closer to Star Trek
Hyposound!
Better than Star Trek. Hypospray seems not to be painless.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK6Lbc1jid8
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While this is awesome, I can already imagine anti-vaxxers are now deathly afraid of ultrasounds lol
Idk, anti vaxxers aren’t afraid of needles/syringes as far as I understand. They don’t want that kind of substance to be put inside their body, regardless of the method of administration
It’s too bad we can’t put vaccines in cum. We’d either have nearly 100% vaccine rates or the antivaxxers would quickly die out.
How bout tweaking vasectomies
hey babe, let’s rawdog, i jizz pfizer
Great work happiness, with every dose also comes a redose every 60 days. How many patients can you handle
when shagging for my country, no sacrifice is too great
This is low key Genius.
I mean, yes, but a lot of them also think it’s a conspiracy where world leaders are trying to vaccinate everyone because ??? Those types will start avoiding ultrasound to not get tricked into getting vaccinated.
The best part is “depopulation by helping people stay healthy” e.g. The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
that’s the joke
When they’ll hear about it they’ll make ultrasound themselves)
Wut?
“Translating” they are gonna freak out and scream their pants out
Brace yourselves! Vaccination with sound conspiracies coming in!
“The IRS called, they vaccinated me trough my phone in my ear!!?”
“Mass vaccinations trough radio!!?”
As much as I hate fucking mobile alerts, they already thought the last test was some magical bullshit.
Ya see that one where someone’s landlord went loopy and cut power to their building because he’d consumed a bunch of conspiracy nut stuff?
I didn’t but I’m not surprised. I feel like this mystical thinking is rooted in our acceptance of religion to some extent.
This will just be their proof of the 5G-Covid link.
Wanna bet that they will somehow combine this with 5G conspiracies?
“It’s all just a wave after all!!!” ^/s^
That’s just what I said above, this will be their “proof” of the 5G-Covid link.
They were already terrified of phone signals.
Only fast ones though. Slower ones can’t penetrate the skin.
Hilariously enough, it’s closer to the other way 'round. Higher frequencies means more bandwidth but they can be blocked easier. Lower frequencies can go farther before being attenuated too much.
One of my friend’s friends has a PhD in psychology, but she thinks that nuclear radiation has healing properties and told me to move out of NYC because there was too much 5G everywhere. She still uses a smartphone though, just on a selfie stick on speakerphone 🤣 She also told me that she was afraid of the radio in her car because of the radio waves.
She could at least use wired headphones. Or is it one simple trick to stop people from calling you?
She’s just a bit out there, there is no logic in her actions.
That’s fucking amazing.
In a way she’s actually not wrong. That’s what radiotherapy is. Focused nuclear radiation to heal cancer.
She doesn’t have cancer though, she’s perfectly healthy and is an “alternative medicine practitioner”. She said she sleeps with a piece of thorium under her pillow.
Regardless of it being used for cancer treatment, nuclear radiation isn’t good for the body in any way. Various forms of radiation (not just nuclear) are harmful, like getting too much sun.
Yikes!
I’m convinced that she’s just nuts. My friend, who is her friend (how I met this woman), told me that the woman has started “Urine Therapy” and I just said “Jesus fucking Christ… I… I just have nothing to say” because I didn’t wanna get into a debate with him about it.
Ultrasound vaccines and 5G!
They push the vaccine through your skin with 5G!
I know you are joking, but I suspect that many people would swallow this idea while without any thought whatsoever.
Yes, we live in an age of uncritical thought.
It’s really good that the media really managed to communicate to people that antivaxers are the enemy of everyone now.
When I think of an antivaxer, I imagine it’s some creature that we don’t normally see, because they are so ugly, stupid and insane that they wouldn’t be able to function in society without a lot of help getting their pants on in the morning.
I mean, imagine going against the specific advice of all those experts and NOT taking the vaccine?? That’s like putting a gun to the head of grandma who just wants to live her last few days in happiness, and then that stupid antivaxer just kills her! So evil.
I’m thankful we live in a society where we now can be confident what is true, because it’s very clearly being communicated to all of us, all the time. Who can miss that?? It’s like everywhere! Stupid antivaxers, hope they all die off like the poison on society they all are.
Where does it say anything about antivaxxers?
The thread comments. :)
Not sure how to interpret your comment. Is it being sarcastic?
Antivaxxers are indeed fucking stupid pieces of shit. It isn’t some propaganda by the media. It’s science / logic.
Of course not. We have science, and there should be no reason to question that anymore, now that we know what the truth is. It took us a long time to get here too. But now we know.
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We are one step closer to hypo sprays from Star Trek. I don’t like needles so this will be really neat to see in mass adoption.
Hyposprays already were invented, mass produced, used as standard in the military for several years, and abandoned because they weren’t as hygienic as needles.
Anything that pushes through the skin into the blood pushes pathogens in too. Statistically, needles were safer so hyposprays were abandoned.
Presumably the version they use in Star Trek avoids that problem somehow, so it’s still a thing that would need to be invented.
The doctors are constantly jabbing people one right after another and often through the uniform…I’d love to see the explanation in universe for that
Medicine is improved so everyone has super immunity in the future. So it’s not that the hypo isn’t pushing dirt into their veins, it’s that they don’t care.
Maybe their uniforms are self-sterilizing.
Sitting for a minute and a half, not including prep and cleanup, or just getting stabbed a little. shrug
Edit: To save the next half dozen people exclaiming “needles!” the trouble. I would refine my point to, “great to have the option but I imagine it as being more of a fallback than the beginning of a new era”.
For people like me who go down for a half hour and feel like a train wreck for 8 hours when they get stabbed a little, I’ll take a 1.5min one.
If you told me I needed to run on a treadmill for an hour while the ultrasound worked, I’d STILL take it over getting stabbed a little.
If humans weren’t meant to stabbed then we wouldn’t be so soft and penetrable.
I do take your point though.
Lol, it’s true. But if we were meant to be stabbed we wouldn’t have a completely unique dangerous (occasionally it kills people) reaction to it that doesn’t resemble most phobias.
Surely that’s the vaccine, not the needle?
Happens for blood draws as well, even small quantities. Happens if someone pokes me with a lidocaine. It’s a vasovagal reaction where my body “overreacts to certain triggers”. My blood pressure and heartrate plummet (to scary low levels. I’ve freaked out nurses on a couple of occasions). It causes me to feint in a comically dramatic way because the bloodflow to my brain gets too low. To be even more fun, I sometimes exhibit false “seizure” symptoms when I’m down, tightening up all my muscles at once and stopping breathing. During my first COVID vaccine, my breathing stopped for almost a minute, which is why 2 doctors were overseeing me when I came to. My wife explaining the situation is the only reason I didn’t end up in an ambulance. You shoulda seen the nurse, she looked as pale as I did!
In theory, this could kill me, and there are confirmed ultra-rare cases of people dying from vasovagal syncope. In practice, I’m far more likely to die of a car accident on the way home (with my wife driving me because I’m in no state to drive after that). So long as a competent medical professional is watching me, I’m basically completely safe. But absolutely miserable.
Honestly, it makes me feel like I’m some kind of drama queen. But it’s entirely made up of unconscious responses in my body.
And the weird thing is that it’s not thinking about needles. It’s my body’s reaction to the feeling of a needle entering it. That sad little “prick” feeling that is maybe a 1 out of 10 on the pain scale? I have no idea if it’s “trickable” because I have absolutely no problem digging out a splinter with a knife. I keep wanting to find out if getting a tattoo would trigger that reaction or not. I just want to get a tattoo anyway lol.
Huh, I have never heard of such a thing! Sounds very annoying to say the least
It fucking sucks, more because a lot of providers don’t (or didn’t. They’ve been getting better) take seriously. They’d treat you like a baby or a hypochondriac, right up until you scare them half to death by WHAT YOU SAID WOULD HAPPEN happening.
The stopping-breathing thing is super-rare, so even people expecting that “complely calm-seeming patient” pass-out are shocked when that same unconscious patient starts holding their breath and shaking.
That sure sounds annoying. I hope being able to plan ahead for the occasional jab makes it not much of a real issue in your life.
Does it happen for accidental/“natural” pokes? You mentioned the splinter thing, but if you had a thorn, cactus needle, or even a piece of glass stuck in your skin and pulled it out, would you do alright?
Basically that. I schedule a day off if I need a jab for any reason, and work from home anyway when I’m miserable the next several days.
All of those are fine. And unlike a lot of people with my issue, blood doesn’t bother me in the least. Once in a great while I’ve gotten a mild version of that from an insect bite, but the feeling is just completely different.
Oddly, I think if a needle hurt more and did some tearing, it wouldn’t bother me so much.
But you’re asking some really thought-provoking questions. I have a lot of food-related texture issues and while this is COMPLETELY different, I’m suddenly wondering if it’s a little more similar than I thought. I do believe there’s a psychological component to it; I haven’t been able to test, but if I were surprised with a needle jab outside of a medical setting, I have no idea if it would happen to me or not.
What I did discover is that my blood pressure doesn’t rise and my heartbeat doesn’t go up in “prep”. I don’t seem to have a stress-rise effect for it to be stress-plummet related. I’m not asking anyone to surprise me with a shot, but I really do wonder what would happen.
Wow. That sucks. Wishing the best for you.
Honestly, I wouldn’t trade it for the medical conditions of some of my family and friends. It sucks, and makes me hate doctors, but it won’t kill me.
I mean, I’d take this over diabetes and/or asthma shrug
Have you tried EMLA?
… genuinely I’ve never been offered (even had to google EMLA)
But now that you mention it, I’ve never had this particular issue from novicaine at the dentist. And they always use a topical.
Next time I need a shot/blood, I’ll see if they’re willing to try that! Since it really does seem to be about the poke itself, something that changes the feeling might be exactly what works.
Just source it yourself, it’s over the counter in the UK and unlikely to be difficult elsewhere. Apply thirty mins beforehand with the patch over, make sure you put it where the injection will go of course… remove when ready, wipe the cream away and voila, no feeling. The dentist uses a spray anaesthetic before needles; despite my phobia, I don’t really mind gum injections, very weird.
Also stops a lot of medical waste
The needle or the ultrasound, seems like the prick might be less waste
I don’t think there would be any need to dispose of any part of the ultrasound system; perhaps a disposable paper or plastic cover to speed up cleaning between patients. Meanwhile the needles are single use and must be disposed of properly since they are a bio-hazard. Can’t really see how a needle could possibly compete on the waste side of things.
Yeah, maybe he was talking about something else because it’s hard to see what would be worse than used needles.
How?
I’ll take it over having a sore arm for a day or two.
Getting a shot isn’t a big deal, but neither is sitting for five minutes.
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Some people are afraid of the needle
It’s certainly less time effective if administering vaccines to large populations at once, but the increased antibody generation could absolutely make it worth it. Don’t know much about these things, but could mean the difference between two jabs and one 1.5 minute appointment.
Needle phobias are extremely common, and the thing about phobias is that you’re fully aware that the fear isn’t coming from a rational place, which is part of what makes them so frustrating to deal with.
Lol yeah when I get vaccinated the anxiety fully fades the moment the needle enters my arm.
Maybe one way of looking at it might be : this would be safe enough you could trust people to self-administer, and you could therefore take the professional with the needle out of the equation.
90 seconds of one person’s time has got to be better than the quick jab by two people, no?
I don’t think any amount of de-specializing would be enough to trust the ignorant and/or malicious masses could or would self-administer adequately.
You’re right. Can’t just post them to folks and expect 100% uptake. It might widen the possibilities of more people getting more vaccines, though. In my books, this can only be a good thing.
Depending on how specific the injection needs to be, there are a number of scenarios in which people can self-administer injections. So, ignoring people who physically can’t self-administer, it isn’t that dramatic a change.
I can’t help but feel that the professional would be even more necessary to administer this correctly and not just waste a treatment/dose doing it wrong, whilst under the illusion that you did it right. Along with the specialised equipment needed for it in the first place. Needles and doses at least are pretty easily self-contained and if it is suitable for self application just “pointy end goes in fat bit of you”.
Naturally it’s early days, so it’ll be fascinating to see how this develops.
I agree! Auto injectors aren’t cheap compared to ye olde trusty ampule and syringe, and this might push the costs towards the higher end again. I can see a kids-and-the-latex-allergic edge case scenario.
Can’t wait to see what develops 😄
It’s not just the time we’ve saved here. Think of people on insulin that have to take shots multiple times a day.
The medical implications of this are massive it is absolutely a game changer.
If it ever comes into fruition.
We’ll have to wait and see how this impacts anything that needs to be injected deeper than skin level, which is why the focus is on vaccines.
Great, a new thing for the lunatics to rant about.
I was gonna say oh now they are gonna say that’s what the 5g towers are REALLY for 🙄🙄🙄
At this point if it was possible to orchestrate some massive conspiracy to vaccinate people en masse, we should just do that. They’ll shout about it either way, but this way they’ll at least be vaccinated
Torn between the dystopian abuse that will inevitably occur and thinking how funny it will be for a couple years.
This is basically the fluoride ‘debate’.
(Yes, fluoridating the water supply is good.)
I specifically remember my bio mom ranting about how we all would have telekinetic powers if not for the fluoride in the water. She believed that was the ‘real’ reason the government did it.
That’s a cool conspiracy theory I wish was true.
You’re not wrong!
Also, if you are injesting enough flouride to cause health issues when you brush your teeth, you are brushing horrifically wrong.
claim that the vaccine is actually for 5g blocking
That was my first thought the flat earthers and mud flood people are going to have a field day with this!
Hyposprays are finally here!!!
Finally? They were used back in the 1970s. There were issues with them getting contaminated during use, so disposable needles became the norm.
If they can do this for insulin which sounds like it’s the same this is a game changer
what will the anti-vax say
Nothing of importance as usual
Maybe you can help this make sense for me, as no one else has. We all know the government has proven to be corrupt, regardless of which party is in charge. We also know that Big Pharma is corrupt as hell too. Their goal is to keep us sick because healthy people don’t buy medicine. Now all of a sudden when they both say “Here take this shot otherwise you’ll kill grandma” we’re supposed to believe they have our best interest in mind? Like, why now? Why am I supposed to trust that what they say is safe and effective is actually that? I mean, drugs that have been used and studied for decades have been pulled of the shelf because it turns out it does more harm than good. It’s also been proven that the covid vaccine isn’t nearly as effective that they were touting.
I will try…
Vaccines are studied by researchers from different affiliations, and published in peer-reviewed journals. Such studies require multiple stages, and when a vaccine is considered ready for the public, its side effects are already known.
Big pharma is corrupt, but their main goal is money, and they get A LOT of money from selling vaccines. In the unlikely event of one company frauding a vaccine, this would be such a scandal that would affect its commercial relations in the entire world, thus, generating less profit in the long run and making investors move to other companies.
The government is corrupt, but they want the population to be healthy enough to work, pay taxes and contribute to gdp. Giving room for simple diseases to kill people goes totally against the government’s goals.
Remember, neither governments or companies want people to die, and curing lethal or disabling diseases goes in their own interests. Besides, we already have lots of chronic diseases and conditions around to continuously sell medicine.
There’s no reason for any involved party to create fake vaccines and give it to people. If you’re really unsure, I recommend contacting universities and asking about assessment programs ( I don’t know how that would be called in english), because some places test samples from vaccines that will be used, in order to check if everything is ok. They probably publish the results too, and they’re not only experts in the field, but are independent parties.
I hope this was of some help.
*laughs in minority*
but anyways very good points in your comment
Dead slaves don’t make money
That was the most non-judgemental and logical answer I’ve seen in a while to vaccine hesitancy, nice work.
You’re talking in such broad strokes that it’d take an entire essay to dissect what you’re saying.
In short, there are areas of government and industry where corruption is a problem and others where it’s not, and yet regulation is still the norm. You frame it like it’s not that way at all and structure your argument around that. The reality is more complex with many other actors:
Yes. Neither big pharma nor the government are calling the shots all on their own. It’s not just business at play but public health along with the entire field of medicine and the research body. You’re completely ignoring the history of medicine and how it has shaped our global health sector.
Epidemiologists around the world have been warning us about pandemics for decades, especially about coronaviruses since SARS hit Asia. These viruses are ancient and their potential is well studied. Only their mechanisms of infection are new.
Because evolution happened right in front of our eyes and we happened to have a technology ready for it. mRNA vaccines have been 30 years in the making. Shit happened and we were the lucky winners. This is how history goes.
Because of science. Big effort is put into this by independent bodies by microbiologist, pharmacists, geneticists/molecular biologists, chemists, immunologists, etc. advancing their individual careers. Countless hours of labor has gone into making the technology possible and also painstakingly understanding the microbiology that makes it all possible. I think this arguably and easily goes back to the 70s. It’s not new and it’s not just one group behind this, even if only three people got the Nobel Prize for it within the last year.
Yes, and also many hundreds of others have endured and will continue to be safe within reason. The list of essential medications is incredibly long.
As the saying goes, “if it can’t harm you, it can’t cure you,” because it means it doesn’t interact with your body in any way.
The reasons for pulling drugs out of stores are incredibly varied and you can’t just dump them all into one bucket.
One of those reasons is human error, another is uncertainty and yet another is lack of knowledge, among so many others. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Instead, be grateful that our pharmacovigillance is working and that safer drugs are being made with new tech, like the mRNA vaccines.
Because of evolution. It’s an evolutionary arms race against a virus with a short mutation cycle that branches off into variants quicker than we can adjust our drugs. If the virus didn’t change, it’d have been exterminated the first year of the vaccines.
Please let me know if I need to clarify, correct or expand on anything above. I’m happy to provide credible sources where needed.
healthy people buy medicine to stay healthy.
Dead people do not.
They will make up stories that ultra sounds scans is a nefarious way of vaccinating you without consent and consequently refusing to go to important checkups.
They’re incredibly predictable. Just pretend to barely understand the subject matter, then invent the most alarmist way of misunderstanding it.
Oh oh!
They will say that ultrasounds is how they update the chips that are already in-vaccinated, to include new ways the deep state can control the population.
You got to keep the narrative evolving.
Ultrasound vaccines give you ultra-autism.
But the microchips are already equipped with 5G (and it even amplifies it, this is why our cell phone coverage is so good). Surely they can just push an OTA update, right?
I should patent a long range dart gun for vaccinating morons.
dartWait, so we like guns now?
Who are “we” and why do we need to have the same opinion?
If you’re not part of the hivemind that changes depending on which sub you are on, them you are the enemy. No take backsies.
Always have.
🔫
The YouTuber Allen Pan build something for that.
The mRNA shots are very sensitive. I’m not allowed to shake them prior to administration, only swirl gently. I feel like this tech will damage them no?
Im sure they’d have to develop something that would be compatible. It’s in the early stages, but it looks like a cool idea even if it isn’t practical for every application.
I had a friend who would have severe reactions to injections. He wasn’t afraid of needles, but his body would have weird reactions lasting about a week after having an injection. It was really problematic, so he tried to avoid them whenever possible. All this to say, I bet he’d be excited if something like this were made available to him.
Had a class mate in elementary school that literally ram screeming when we were getting out hepititis shots. This would be great for someone’s like that who is very much afraid of needles
That’s me.
Keloid formation?
We do realize that force vaccination is a human right violation, right?
Especially, when the product is not actually “safe nor effective.”
It’s comparable yet worse than force feeding animal meat to a vegan.
You should really educate yourself before making yourself look like a fool in a comment.
The principles of bodily autonomy support the moron, unfortunately. Forcing something into the body of another against their will is generally considered a deplorable act, and makes the forcer criminally liable for any harm that arises.
I’m certainly not anti-vax, but I can’t find a philosophically sound justification for forcibly vaccinating an individual.
Forced vaccinations weren’t and still aren’t a thing in the US. (I’m sure there were exceptions, but I mean large scale and general public)
However requiring a vaccine in order to participate in society (jobs, school, etc.) is perfectly reasonable. It’s still a choice, just that the consequences are on those making the choice instead of on those around them.
If you don’t update your computer security, you might be email out viruses to your contacts without even knowing. Is it their responsibility not to get infected or is the responsibility ultimately on you to stay updated?
Terrible analogy. Human lives and computer systems are not really comparable. Pretty sure the responsibility of keeping each computer free of virus falls on the users of those terminals or the IT department managing it.
Has a security update ever done more harm than the virus that it’s trying to stop?
Check r/vaccinelonghaulers in reddit for more information.
COVID has a very high survival rate without intervention. Early treatment with a few drugs proved to be more efficacious on saving lives. Intubation and Remdesevir killed more people than it helped.
And, at least in the US, many of us who are against the mRNA gene therapies will literally as in actually fight to the death those Nazis who are into force injecting things into people.
I will; however, continue to pray for all those who received doses that they don’t succumb to cardiac myopathies, blood clots, or strokes.
So many people that had the shots are struggling with perpetual pneumonias. It’s sad.
Got a source? I didn’t think so.
For which part?
Perpetual pneumonia being caused by vaccines and not the obvious: long covid
Someone being a vegan doesn’t exactly put other people at risk.
Where does other peoples’ freedom start? Do you also have the freedom to burn toxic materials in your backyard, where your neighbours can inhale the smoke? Because proper disposal of toxic waste is much more similar to getting vaccinated than your metaphor.
Good thing no one is being forced then and that the vaccines are safe and effective
vigilantnews.com/…/nz-whistleblower-arrested-for-…
I have more, but this one is fresh.
I guess it’s interesting but this seems to have minimal use case. For those with reactions to injections and such it’s useful, but it seems much easier to use a needle in most cases. Also that article claims that it “doesn’t damage the skin”, but I don’t see why a vaccine would cause any meaningful damage to the skin in the first place.
Edit: Okay I’m seeing now how this would be useful for more frequent injections like insulin and such if it can be used like that.
It literally tears a hole in the flesh with a puncture wound. It’s the definition of damaging.
Minor damage, but damage none the less.
I have a phobia of needles so this comes in very very handy. I just wish there was one for taking blood out.
you just described a deathray mam
I guess the fear of needles is a constant problem when children are vaccinated. Having an alternative method ready could make it easier for children, parents and doctors.
Not only children. I know a guy that passes out (or almost does) when they try to inject him with needles.
I know a guy like that too. Okay, it’s me. I have to ask the doctor to let me be lying down when I get a shot. But at least it’s not as embarrassing as passing out in the little chair and have a 115 lb. nurse trying to hold me up before I hit the floor. That has happened more than once.
So… 5G?
It’s obviously 6G
Ohhh that makes so much sense.
No time to waste, need to stock up on aluminum foil!
(Seriously though this is going to go off the rails quick. I know someone who put their phone in the microwave just to avoid it getting the emergency broadcast system test. “I don’t trust anything about FEMA”)
… did they turn the microwave on?
No but that would have been hilarious. Though probably a fire hazard.
does this work for real drugs striaght into the brainstem???
Asking the real questions.
Vaccines just vibing their way into your body
It’s a bit more like really high pitch screaming as it enters you, but the way you say it makes me want it even more.
So, now antivax mothers can’t get ultrasound anymore while they’re pregnant?
Cue an entire generation of malformed republican babies will smallpox
Did one of them time travel?
This made me chuckle.
Yup. Guess they can’t know the gender or its health conditions.
That does sound amazing. Do we know if they lose any effectiveness?
Probably not, theres been some needleless vaccines before that did ok. If anyone has done time in the military you’re probably familiar. Also any loss in efficacy could probably just be offset with higher concentrations
First of all, thank you for taking the time help me understand. I didn’t know about past vaccines that used the system.
The smallpox vaccine was put on a sugar lump that children then ate (It really was a different time) And even after going through the digestive tract it still worked.
They didn’t use this system. There are other needleless systems, primarily jet systems that use high pressure.
That’s how the five gee gets ya!
No you’re mixing it up, that’s the new 6G technology
You mean that’s how Bill Gates gives your baby autism.
MY body, MY ultrasound
If the cure isn’t penetrating you, then you need to pray harder.
Sounds good ;)
Notwithstanding but I read about this, or something similar to this years ago, I want to say something seven or eight, and we’re still in the same phase with this tech.
Not going to be holding my breath on this one.
Was getting poke with a needle ever a problem that it needed this?
I know a person IRL that is morbidly afraid of needles, they would have a panic attack just seeing others getting poked. And apparently they have a self-help group somewhere, so they are definitely not alone.
Yeah, vaccine like these can definitely save their live.