Windows 10 IoT LTSC 2021...'has reached end of support' warning (?!)
from iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 15 Oct 10:31
https://lemmy.world/post/37377414
from iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 15 Oct 10:31
https://lemmy.world/post/37377414
Hi guys! So…yeah, I have a W10 IoT LTSC permanently activated via massgrave getting this warning. Any idea what’s up? Shouldn’t it continue chugging along for a good few years more?
EDIT: This is a VM, as I run mainly Linux on everything if I can avoid it. I’m just feating there might be more like this.
threaded - newest
Na there are a bunch of caveats and different types of Windows 10/11 Enterprise and specifically IoT Enterprise.
Go back to their wiki pages cuz you are guna have to re-do the activation process and should nake sure you are setting it up per the provided instructions. Ive had windows 11 Enterprise IoT running for over a year now and its the best exclusive to Windows/Microsoft decision I ever made.
Microsoft makes a relatively great product in its Enterprise line, stripping most of the spy/bloatware out and allowing simple user configuration settings changes to kill the rest, plus all the advertised tools/software that only comes with an Enterprise shit.
Then they strip all the useful tools out, facefuck as much bloatware as they can jizz into your PC while buttfucking even more spyware into your PC raw dog style with so much breaking of everything with every fuckin update they release and call that fucking bastard Windows 10/11 Home Edition.
Im sorry I forgot what this conversation was about buuuuutttt fuck Windows in their fucking fuckhole is the TLDR.
Edit: This is all going entirely off memory wirh a huge iirc asterisks on it. I definitely remember having to do the set up over and over again, tho, figuring out which version was the best option for my use. I got the bitch set up now with local account, zero microsoft account affiliation and dont update fuckall unless its severe severe severe security risk. Its the best and most consistent my PC has ever ran.
Yup. This is Win 10 IoT LTSC 21H2. Which should have updates all the way to January 13, 2032, if I’m not wrong. The HWID license is activated and attached to the VM. But…I’m getting a warning in Windows Update today.
Yeah but there were methods for activating it with a trial activation code that only lasted a year I think, a method for activating ut offline permanently, and also a method for activating it using an annual reactivating activation code that, again *******was set it and forget it for as long as windows 11 enterprise will be supported
Yes. It’s a permanent HWID license, associated to the hardware. No renewal needed, and it’s permanently associated to the hardware ID. If I reinstall the OS on the VM, it will reactivate without asking. And yet.
I mean, not to be a dick but, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and expires after the year like the trial activation method… it must be a free trial duck lol. /s
Aka im all out of ideas or recommendations.
massgrave.dev/faq#why-is-the-windows-update-page-…
If your pirating which for end users is the only way to get LTSC, just run Windows Server.
It’s cleaner than LTSC.
Not disagreeing but this isnt a form of pirating. They didnt break shit, they didnt hack shit and they didnt exploit shit. Microsoft built their entire DRM software in a way that was able to be recerse engineered.
Again, not contradicting anything you recommended. I just wanted to point this out for any lurkers because I cant encourage this option enough for anyone forced into putting up with Windows. You are actually uaing the same activation codes that microsoft themselves generate and distribute to their customers.
I can confirm it works for Windows 10, 11, for any iteration of 23h or 24h, all Office applications, both individually and packaged, visual studio, and I wanna say Adobe but that one im not 100% on.
Its been over a year and as I said above im going off memory but I think I went with IoT Enterprise because of how nominal the differences were from Windows Server but also wanted to check out the IoT Enterprise because my cousin was starting his own fabrication/manufacturing company at that time and it was a good opportunity to see what his options were for future scalability that came with IoT Enterprise.
Circumventing DRM by any means, whether that’s by modifying it so it doesn’t work or just clicking buttons that the DRM provider doesn’t want you to click, is legally considered piracy in most of the world. If you didn’t get the activation code from Microsoft (or someone Microsoft authorised to give it to you), it’s pirated.
Id disagree. Its not my responsibility to close all their doors that are accessible to the public. Microsoft provided all the tools to use their software without their involvement. As a US citizen, I’m liable for my own negligence and/or ignorance. Corporations are pegally protected under corporate personhood so the same liabilities affect them too.
Legally, it isn’t. The DMCA (and compatible laws in non-US countries, which those countries have to have or they’re not allowed a trade deal, and not having a trade deal with the US is devastating for an economy) doesn’t require copyright holders to do anything to defend their copyright. It does make it illegal to do (nearly) anything with copyrighted media that you don’t have explicit permission to do from the copyright holder (there are some exceptions, but people generally think they go further than they really do). It also makes it illegal to do (nearly) anything to circumvent DRM, even if you have a legal right to use the thing that the DRM is protecting, no matter how crappy the DRM is and how easily it can be bypassed.
You’re allowed to think that the law is stupid (it’s the DMCA - everyone who looks at it and isn’t a multibillion dollar publishing company thinks it’s stupid), but that doesn’t mean that it’s not the law, and for legal terms like piracy, you can’t just substitute your own definition based on what should be legal if it conflicts with the definition that says what really is legal.
The reason why non-crap DRM exists when there’s no legal reason to make it not crap is the same reason why DRM exists at all when there’s no legal reason to have DRM at all when piracy of DRM-free stuff is already a crime. It’s that publishers think that the more of a hassle it is to pirate things, the more likely people are to buy things legally. Technically, a shareholder could sue a company for using crap DRM that failed to protect their IP, but the company has a decent defence by saying that they felt that intrusive DRM would hurt their reputation with legitimate customers, so not using strong DRM is not grounds to say a company’s been negligent and liable for any losses they make due to piracy.
I thought activation scripts were somewhat of a grey area legally?
The script is legal. Not paying for software that requires you to pay is illegal.
It’s like DeCSS code that strips drm from DVDs was legally grey but downloading movies you didn’t pay for is illegal.
No, they’re illegal several times over as you’ve got to pirate the thing in the first place to end up in a situation where you need one, and then they’re inherently a DRM circumvention device, which are illegal to possess, and then using them circumvents DRM, which is illegal to do. The upside is that you’re unlikely to be caught.
We’re talking about Windows ltsc aren’t we? microsoft.com/…/download-windows-11-iot-enterpris… the ISO is freely available on Microsofts website.
It’s freely available for evaluation purposes (from that link - it’s freely available for other purposes from other links, too, and so are other editions of Windows), but that doesn’t mean you’re legally allowed to use those public links however you want. If the copyright holder says they’re for evaluation purposes only, then if you know you aren’t intending to pay even if you like it, then you’re not evaluating whether or not the download link is public, so it still counts as piracy. It’s still stealing to take produce from a roadside stall with an honesty box if you don’t pay even though the produce was just sitting out in the open.
Okay, so it’s not illegal to obtain the ISO as you said before, and you’re not breaking DRM, your breaking TOS. Yes, this is generally regarded as piracy and illegal, but downloading the ISO is not. Your analogy only works if the fruit stand has infinite fruit being cloned over and over again from the same original fruit automatically and costs the fruit stand practically nothing when you don’t pay.
Copyright law is written as if magically duplicating the fruit is the same thing as stealing it. In a discussion about what the law is rather than what it should be in a sensible society, the analogy is fine. As Microsoft is the copyright holder, you only have the right to do anything with their files that they have deigned to grant you, and anything else is legally piracy. In the case of this specific link, they’ve granted the public the right to use it for evaluation purposes, but they’ve not granted any other rights, so it is legal to use the link to download the file for evaluation purposes, and illegal to use it for anything else.
If you want a slightly different analogy, it’s a little like how if Disney put on a free screening of the latest Marvel film for disabled children at a cinema, and didn’t check at the door, an able bodied adult could wander in, past signs saying that the screening was for disabled children only, and watch the film for free, but the fact that they could physically gain access doesn’t mean they had any legal right to be there. They could be ejected from the cinema and/or sued for the cost of a ticket and any legal costs. You do not have a legal right to click link on Microsoft’s website next to some text saying that it’s for evaluation purposes only unless you’re clicking it for evaluation purposes only. Just because you’ve made it to the link, it doesn’t mean you can ignore the text saying who is and isn’t allowed to click it.
Okay, still a bad analogy as the fruit stand clearly states you free to take this fruit without payment and evaluate it, but if you want to eat more than a bite you have to pay us or throw it away.
Clearly you have a pedantic streak, but you’d be very hard pressed legally to find anyone saying you’ve broke the law by downloading an iso that is freely available online nor would any DMCA requests or the like be filled. Furthermore, casual downloaders who do not distribute or attempt to profit off of pirating windows are rarely if ever prosecuted.
Also, like what are you doing? Are you just trying to be right or is there some underlining principal I’m missing? Is it just piracy=illegal=bad?
If you saw a fruit stand and it had a sign saying you were allowed to try one grape without committing to buy a bunch, and the owner noticed you were doing anything with grapes other than buying them or trying one, they’d be allowed to ban you from their stand or if they really wanted to be a dick about it, take you to small claims court to recover the cost of any stolen grapes. If the local police wanted to be dicks about it rather than just not show up over something so petty, they could treat it like any other kind of low-value shoplifting and arrest you. The owner letting you have a free evaluation grape doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want with grapes, whether or not you invent loopholes like claiming you’re a different customer if you walk away from the grapes and come back again or that it’s fine as long as you ony take one grape from each bunch or that it should be fine as long as you pretend you’re evaluating the grapes even though it’s obvious that you were never going to actually buy grapes. They are not your grapes until you’ve paid for them, and while they’re not your grapes, what the shopkeeper says is allowed is what’s allowed, and it’s up to their sole discretion whether you’re taking the piss and need to stop.
If you ask a random person off the street or on social media, they might well agree with you that making a link publicly available means it’s legal to download the linked thing, but that doesn’t mean that they’re right. If you read the text of the DMCA (or equivalent in another country), ask a lawyer, or read a summery in plain English of the DMCA written by a lawyer, it’s really clear that, barring some very specific exceptions, you have no rights to do anything with anything unless either you’re the copyright holder, you’ve been granted a licence to do specific things by the copyright holder, or you’ve bought a copy from the copyright holder and have implicit rights to do things with the copy you’ve bought (which is why, typically, software is sold as a licence, not a copy, as that stops you getting your implicit First Sale Doctrine rights). A lawyer would tell you that Microsoft haven’t granted you, as someone who is not evaluating whether to deploy Windows 11 IoT LTSC for a specific project, permission to download the ISO, so you don’t have permission to download the ISO.
The fact that you mention DMCA takedown requests here shows a serious misconception about what the DMCA is and how it works, because they’re a very specific and minor part of the DMCA that has no relevance to normal people. Takedown requests are a mechanism between copyright holders and online service providers when the service provider is hosting infringing content on behalf of someone else, without necessarily knowing that it’s infringing, and the DMCA introduced them because previously your ISP and any websites you visited were also liable for any crimes you comitted using their services. The person downloading the Windows ISO isn’t an online service provider, so the consequences for them wouldn’t be a takedown request. There are much more exciting consequences for normal people, like unlimited fines and jail sentences.
The fact that the DMCA is so broadly overreaching and draconian that it’s impossible to enforce, and that therefore you don’t need to worry about only breaking the law a little bit as no one’s going to care doesn’t mean that what it says isn’t the law. Plenty of people who’ve ended up in trouble for something else have ended up prosecuted for various copyright offences that were easier to make stick than whatever painted a target on their back in the first place.
Despite it not being a problem for normal people, if you’re a big company with enough money to be worth going after, minor things like getting a Windows ISO from the wrong link can cause trouble. Generally, companies have learned that it’s bad for business to sue their customers, but it’s still worth their while to add on extra fees and charges for breaches of contract as long as they’re not so big that the customer bothers disputing them. To avoid these problems, large companies have compliance departments, and they’ll absolutely discipline employees for doing things like downloading things from the wrong link that wouldn’t matter at all for a home user.
I’m still replying because you keep responding with misconceptions and general nonsense and asserting that it’s factual. That’s enough of a reason on its own when the topic’s something as objective as what the law as written is. It should be obvious from the number of times I’ve said that the law is dumb, draconian and overreaching that I’m in favour of it changing, and that would require more people to know that the law is dumb and makes things illegal that no one would expect to be legal. However, a lot of your last few posts has basically been th
It’s not your responsibility to close the doors, but it is your responsibility not to walk in an open door and take something that’s not yours
Yep, and that negligence/ignorance you’re liable for in this case is piracy.
You’re welcome to disagree with a bad law (and make no mistake, I absolutely think it’s a bad law), but you’re still liable for breaking laws you don’t agree with. By all means break it, but don’t pretend you’re not breaking it, and make sure you take reasonable precautions to keep yourself safe while doing so.
You’re picking up what im putting down lol. Didn’t mean to say I was disagreeing with what youre saying just in this case especially:
Where I’ve paid for each new pc build to just have a blank slate and not carry over my digital footprint for microsoft from one build to the next. Also, tho, im not taking what isnt already mine, im just using a work around for dealing with microsoft’s atrocious customer service.
Again, not saying this will hold up in a court of law, jist saying I dont lose any sleep over it.
Bonus rationalization: fuckin outlooks locked in and un-adjustable junk mail filters have auto filtered Microsoft own emails for upcoming annual Office invoices to my junk folder that I used to rarely check before getting slammed with over a $100 charge for Office eliminating my ability to use the email reminders as notification to cancel my subscription cuz even if you paid for a year of Office but wanna cancel a month into the year so you dont forget, microsoft says naaaaaaa you lose the remaining 11 months of paid software access.
Downloading movies you haven’t paid for is also piracy even if there’s no drm. Microsoft doesn’t need to put any copy protection for it still to be piracy.
Piracy has nothing to do with copy protection.
Can you elaborate on how it’s cleaner?
xbox gamebar isn’t preinstalled. Onedrive backup and bing search bar isn’t preinstalled.
Didn’t know they were present on the latest IoT LTSC
No, dont run server. Many programs will not allow to be installed on it without getting enterprise versions of the software. Also gaming on it can have many limitations.
I run server and have never seen that. Could you give an example?
There are no limitations. The scheduler doesn’t prioritize foreground tasks over background tasks. In my experience that makes it smoother. If you want it to multitask like desktop, it’s a registry setting.
a example i know right of my head is ESET. it will force you to get their enterprise version. at least they used to do so.
massgrave.dev/windows10_eol
massgrave.dev/faq#why-is-the-windows-update-page-…
The massgrave site has a faq entry for this. According to them it’s only a cosmetic bug and microsoft will probably patch it.
Thank you. I think this wasn’t there yesterday when i was intensively checking, or i must have missed it. This is the correct answer. Thanks!