Amazon's drone delivery program is the joke it always sounded like.
(news.yahoo.com)
from FlyingSquid@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 04 Nov 2023 22:40
https://lemmy.world/post/7798801
from FlyingSquid@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 04 Nov 2023 22:40
https://lemmy.world/post/7798801
Only one item can be delivered at a time. It can’t weigh more than 5 pounds. It can’t be too big. It can’t be something breakable, since the drone drops it from 12 feet. The drones can’t fly when it is too hot or too windy or too rainy.
You need to be home to put out the landing target and to make sure that a porch pirate doesn’t make off with your item or that it doesn’t roll into the street (which happened once to Lord and Silverman). But your car can’t be in the driveway. Letting the drone land in the backyard would avoid some of these problems, but not if there are trees.
Amazon has also warned customers that drone delivery is unavailable during periods of high demand for drone delivery.
threaded - newest
Welcome to the future
Reminds me of an insurance company that wanted to use drones to survey roof damage and in the long run they decided it was overall better to just use a camera on a long ass stick.
Just so you know, companies already use drones for roof surveys. I work for sunrun and we use them to analyze roofs for solar installations and whether roofs need to be fixed before hand.
Yeah this sounds like a great use for drones- take photos of high up places that is dangerous to climb to
Aerial drones are a particularly stupid method of delivery. Delivery trucks, combined with terrestrial delivery robots are a much more versatile approach.
Delivery trucks require a human to drive. And despite the insistence otherwise, we are a long long way from any sort of automated driving system. They also operate on a 2-dimensional plane and have to navigate around a variety of structures.
Conversely, aerial automation is significantly easier since it is 3-dimensional and there are not obstacles to navigate. This also means it’s much easier to automate.
Companies like Zipline have been operating these services for many years now with great success.
Ok… and? How is that a problem that needs solving?
Humans are expensive and error-prone.
Weird, they seem to have done just fine delivering things for centuries now…
And they did just fine plowing up fields by hand.
Replacing the hand plow with the horse plow didn’t needlessly cost anyone their job.
How did you determine this? Also why are you assuming a job is in itself a good thing instead of what the job does being a good thing?
Because the same farmer was plowing the same field.
And a job is better than no job in the Western world if you want to eat and have a roof over your head.
Omg seriously? Do you have any freaken idea how developing world farming works? This is freaken sad. Ok fine. In the real world it wasn’t a farmer it was a farming family. Children as young as 3 would work the land. Being able to use an animal to plow unleashed abundant food and freed up multiple members of the family.
Yes having a job is better than not but that doesn’t mean you are entailed to a make work job because you refuse to use your brains.
When Amazon fires all of the delivery people for to save money, what are all of those delivery people supposed to do to buy things so that they can survive? People seem to think ‘just get another job’ is a viable answer to thousands of people out of work.
I don’t think your hypothetical is very likely especially in anything resembling the short term. These drones can lift a can of soup, not exactly a couch.
However if drones gradually replace drivers the drivers will get new jobs. The reason why this is being suggested to you repeatedly is because it is the solution to the problem. The cure for automation isn’t to stick your head in the dirt and demand your degrading jobs back the cure is training.
UPS delivery drivers fought for and won a $170,000 salary. Ask them how degrading they feel their job is.
I am glad they are well paid, does that mean they aren’t doing a job that takes about a third grader level of education to perform? No. Does that mean it isn’t deadend? No.
Being well paid means exactly that and nothing more. EMT workers doing vital work but are often paid only a bit above minimum wage. Banksters are paid millions and produce nothing except taxpayer funded fraud.
Being well paid means your family does better than all the people living paycheck-to-paycheck. I’m not sure why you think that isn’t something people really want or that it’s a dead end. I would say being paid a small salary and getting deeper and deeper into debt would be the dead end.
I’m also not sure why you are degrading drivers by saying their job can be done by stupid people.
Ok? Most of us have an ambition beyond eat shit and sleep. We want to work on better more challenging stuff.
Can you show me where I said that?
As I already told you, since you decided to insult me, I’m not especially inclined to answer your questions.
That seems extremely unlikely to me.
Define “just fine”? Needless deaths and property damage are caused by human drivers all the time. I mean we could deliver things “just fine” on foot but everyone would be waiting a lot longer…
All the time? I’d like to see the statistics on deaths caused by delivery drivers.
And I’m not sure why you think similar things wouldn’t happen with drones.
…why would they? Even in the rare occurrence that it were to fall out of the sky there’s very little chance it would hit anyone. And even in the exceptionally rare occurrence that it were to hit someone, they’re incredibly light and unlikely to cause serious damage, much less kill anyone.
…unless it’s in a city.
…unless it’s a large drone carrying a heavy package.
If we’re going to replace delivery drivers with drones, they have to be able to carry more than a single five-pound item.
Even harder in a city since it would have to nosedive between buildings.
One of many reasons they have weight limits.
They’ll likely never replace them entirely.
You know there are places in cities with tons of pedestrians, right? And sometimes things from high up fall on them and kill them, right?
Also, if they have weight limits, we won’t be replacing drivers with them. There will still be drivers. So I’m not sure how this saves lives.
According to The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety:
How many of those were package delivery drivers?
You asked for a statistic on deaths caused by delivery drivers because you know it probably doesn’t exist. Your mind is clearly already made up, so why even bother posting?
I know it? What else do I know?
You’re really making a lot of friends in these comments lol
I’m not really expecting someone who tells me what I think instead of asks me to be a friend.
Okay, fine, I’ll bite. Once.
How is that not a problem that needs solving?
Because it’s not a problem.
And what is your evidence that delivery trucks are the optimal method of delivery?
“Optimal” only matters to Amazon’s accountants. The trucks work fine. They keep thousands of people employed.
I have no idea why so many people are trying to justify Amazon putting profits over people.
That’s where you’re wrong. The “optimal” method of delivery matters to every stakeholder in the current system. Yes, Amazon would make more money. Probably too much more. Delivery would also likely be cheaper for customers. And delivery trucks in cities would finally stop blocking the fucking road whenever they feel like it.
Finally, have you considered the possibility that delivery trucks are suboptimal for delivery drivers? It’s no secret that the lifestyle of a delivery driver is extremely unhealthy, and I can’t imagine it’s particularly mentally stimulating.
This is the same rhetoric I hear about AI, and it’s very disheartening. The fact that corporations are gearing up these tools to further exploit the population isn’t an argument against the tools, it’s an argument against the corporations.
Yes, as I said, you and others are justifying Amazon putting profit over people.
I have asked this multiple times: What exactly are those thousands of delivery drivers supposed to do when Amazon fires them all for not being “optimal?”
I think that UBI is an obvious place to start, and I think it should give them the freedom to pursue something they actually want to do. Automation is coming for all of our jobs, but you seem to be fixated on irrationally protecting those jobs instead of taking steps to ensure that automation actually benefits all of us.
In your ideal world, are there really still delivery drivers?
Shouldn’t we maybe implement the UBI first, then fire all the delivery drivers? Because otherwise, I’m seeing a huge increase in the homelessness crisis.
Yes, we should. I just think that only happens when enough of us won’t shut up about UBI, not when we won’t shut up about how we shouldn’t use drones for delivery drivers even if they’re superior. The latter will always be a losing argument when it comes to the general populace because the word they care most about in that sentence is “superior”.
I would think avoiding mass unemployment before UBI is implemented because Amazon wants to save money is “optimal.”
You and I think it is, but most people aren’t delivery drivers, and most of those people frankly don’t have the time to even think about it.
The fact of the matter is that industry protectionism will always look silly to the average person while simultaneously being offered a better solution. On the other hand, being loud about our belief that former members of the industry shouldn’t be absolutely fucked over by automation may actually convince some people to support UBI.
Waste of resources. A human can do other things besides drive a van around all day. We spend all this money educating people. So they can do a job a person with a 3rd grade education can do?
Been in automation a long time. Have personally witnessed the primary task of a worker being replaced by a bin.
We should encourage anything that gets rid of mindless tasks and dehumanizes workers
And they should do what instead to put food on the table?
Find other work? I apologize the rest of the human race doesn’t want to subsidize your lifestyle of thinking as little as possible.
What other work? Do jobs just appear out of the ether for people with delivery experience on their resume?
Truck driver? You know the most common job in the US. Do the people who you are advocating for know you have so little respect for their intelligence that you think they literally can do nothing else except drive a van around? I would be pretty insulted if someone was saying that my limitations were my current job.
You need a different license to drive a big rig truck than you do a package delivery truck. They would have to be retrained. Amazon sure won’t pay for that. Who will?
And do you think trucking wouldn’t also get automated?
Yeah so you will need to to take a class for a few days. So so burdensome. You can get an employer to sponsor the few hundred dollars or put it on credit. It isn’t a lot of money you are talking about here.
Trucking could be automated one day but not tomorrow.
Just a fyi, people like it when you answer questions they ask instead of whining. I asked you a question and I noticed you didn’t answer it. You will observe that I have answered all of your questions.
It takes more than a few days to get trained to get a CDL license. What a silly thing to say.
I also must have missed your question, but since you’ve insulted me by saying I’m “whining,” I’m certainly not inclined to answer it now.
Don’t worry we are done.
Why? Have you run out of insults?
UBI comes to mind.
Maybe we should implement that first and fire all the delivery people second? But as long as Amazon saves money, that’s the important thing.
I remember people were hyped when they announced on Thanksgiving 2012 that drone delivery service was right around the corner. Brilliant marketing from them because people were hyped.
Turns out the FAA is that corner
I remember people being hyped about netting them or shooting them out of the sky.
As someone who frequently orders one can of soup, this is excellent news.
Dropping a can of soup 12ft onto a driveway seems bad for the can and for the driveway.
Self-opening soup can
It'll be in Amazon packaging.
Can of soup wrapped in a brown cardstock bag 👍🏼
For now
www.supplychaindive.com/news/…/697360/
Just give it a tiny parachute
Operation Gumbo Drop
I’m pretty sure a twelve foot drop onto concrete isn’t good for a can of soup. Maybe it’d work for a T-shirt?
As long as you don’t leave your car in the driveway.
Or a beer… As long as it’s Lite Beer!
People buy clothes off of Amazon?
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man killed by falling soup can which he ordered on Amazon
For those of us who order one can of beer, please wish us luck when we go to open it
How is the delivery drone going to navigate around my wire antennas strung between the trees?
Even when you know where they are, they’re hard to see unless the sun hits them just right.
I suspect that would be your responsibility to either clear the area or not use the service. I can see the service having some useful niche case uses. Mainly if you need something light on short notice.
Or you’d have to 3D map your own local environment and keep it updated so the drones know where obstacles are when entering your property’s airspace
I would be fine with that. Looks like a big use case they want this service for is their pharmacy side. Get your teledoctors appointment via their app and the meds delivered via drone within the hour.
The program itself isn’t absurd, but Amazon is a bunch of fucking clowns. I only expect them to fail in the world of logistics. But they’re so big & everybody keeps giving them their money, they can do whatever they want, poorly, forever. They fail ‘up’.
Drone delivery is indeed part of the future of logistics. They just need to make the drones more robust to handle slightly bigger, heavier loads, like at least 10# would be great & a reasonable goal. Arm it with AI so it knows where to drop the payload. Etc etc. There are indeed a number of kinks to be worked out…and who better to crash & burn, learn on than Amazon? 🤡
I live on the 10th story of an apartment building. Where does the drone deliver my 10 pound load to?
I live in a duplex with a front yard that’s about two square feet between the front stoop and the sidewalk. Where does the drone deliver my 10 pound load to?
I live in a house surrounded by a lot of trees. Where does the drone deliver my 10 pound load to?
I have an enclosed front porch, inside of which deliveries can safely be left without worrying about them being stolen. Where does the drone deliver my 10 pound load to?
Drone delivery to someone’s home might be useful for a small number of people in specific circumstances. Most circumstances would be far more efficient if done by a human.
What does this actually solve?
In Germany we have a trial run of food delivery. A drone will bring a package with up to 4.5 kg to a “remote” village, then some students on e-bikes will bring it to the houses. Why they are using drones instead of one lorry a day is unknown.
Having students bike the final mile sounds a lot like Theranos saying they could do all these amazing blood tests on their new, futuristic machine, only to find out that they're still doing most of them the way all labs did them
I’ve seen videos of a firm doing interesting stuff with bigger “mothership” drones that hover much higher and then lower a much smaller drone like thing on a cable to place the parcel on the ground. They can hit pretty precise targets and can maneuver around more obstacles than bigger drones can.
All that needs to happen is for the tech to advance to the point where it’s cheaper to do x% of their deliveries via automated drones than it would cost to have delivery drivers do it and they’ll start doing it. Saving millions(billions?) by say halving the number of human operated delivery trucks will make it a no brainer for them.
Are the mothership drones blimp types?
Oh they weren’t that big, though maybe you could have a super mothership carrier style thing one day lol.
Turns out it was on a Mark Rober video where I saw the drones. Made by zipline who’ve been doing interesting things with emergency drone deliveries in Rwanda for years and have a lot of backing.
youtu.be/DOWDNBu9DkU?si=pe3Cp5uW7wWqOT7T
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/DOWDNBu9DkU?si=pe3Cp5uW7wWqOT7T
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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In all of the above, where either the landlord or the recipient specifies (and when it’s decided by the landlord, the buyer gets precise location info to pass to Amazon when buying stuff, which would include instructions for how to retrieve it after delivery)
In all cases the property owner would be responsible for ensuring there’s a suitable landing location. Preferably combined with lockboxes which drones can directly deposit packages to.
I agree with the others that aerial drones is usually not the most efficient. But in some cases the destination is complicated to reach by foot and then they’re useful. Otherwise land based drones could easily be used (imagine a Segway style delivery bot!)
What problem does a drone delivering a package to a lockbox instead of a person doing it solve? Other than Amazon’s problem of spending money to pay human beings wages?
If it’s a box/home easily reachable from the road, not much. In places with bad road infrastructure, it can save a fair amount of time
Ok, but that’s not where they’re testing it or what they appear to be trying to achieve. So that doesn’t really apply to this specific program.
I get that this is probably more a learning experience than anything…butttt
The way the world is going and the conditions this thing needs to operate? Idk man
This service was announced more than a decade ago. If they’re still having learning experiences, I think they may be trying too hard to get this to work.
Yeah, why wouldn’t they just give up after a couple of years, silly people.
And it will keep on being a joke until, suddenly, one day it's not.
The joke are the people that believe drone delivery won't be a thing.
I’ll bite.
Drones are loud as fuck and if drone delivery became common there would be a massive backlash from the public. Most people live in cities and do not have a yard to put a target on lol. Drone delivery in cities is almost certainly less cost efficient than truck delivery. Land drones are much more likely in cities, or just dudes with cargo bikes like in many European cities.
So yeah drone delivery might “become a thing” but I doubt it will be mainstream.
And that's not even getting into the point of how much easier and less illegal it is to snipe an Amazon drone out of the sky for its payload than it is to assault an Amazon delivery truck and driver. It may not be more common in the long run than porch pirates, because that's also easy and low risk, but I 100% fully guarantee you our redneck population will be out in some capacity hunting for Christmas presents.
“In the land of the drones, the man with the t-shirt cannon is king.”
I’m not gonna lie, this had never occurred to me. But now that it has, it is 100% gonna be my hobby of the future
Bow hunting both gives the drone a sporting chance, and helps you soak in that Horizon Zero Dawn feel.
Instructions unclear, built air compressor powered blunderbuss
I’m setting up nets as we speak! Going to trawl the skies for goods
Places like Los Angeles are mostly SFH. Most areas are already loud as fuck from road noise, proximity to airports, etc. Nobody will notice a few drones.
If it becomes popular in LA, that’s pretty much definition of mainstream.
It is remarkable to me how tolerant as a society we have gotten to noise. We just accept that someone has a right to drive modified motorcycles at 3am with 8 of their buddies.
It isn’t legal (in US) and cops do occasionally set up decibel traps, especially in places frequently visited by motorcyclists, but I completely agree with you. Quiet nights outside of city feel strange now.
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I won’t say never, but when and how will drone delivery be more efficient than a truck?
Per package it’s more energy, it’s more risk, and the tech is harder.
To purchase a fleet of drones big enough will cost more than paying a driver for a long time still.
Pretty much everybody in this thread who is laughing at Amazon’s drones is thinking of drones as they are right now. But Amazon is not using drones because it’s a good idea now. They’re using drones now so they already have the experience and the setup when inevitable technical progress happens.
The drones might never work out or they might eventually work out, but this is exactly how Amazon got so big in the first place. They started selling books online when a lot of people still weren’t sure whether that could work and they started selling cloud computing almost ten years before anyone else thought to do that.
Fair, but the flying drone delivery in my opinion doesn’t scale up.
I think the real savings would be in something like a robot moving packages from the truck or a mobile base to the door.
Per package it’s more energy
How you figure? compared to point to point electrical energy costs compared to moving a truck mass around streets with constant stopping/starting?
It’s the same as a train, by moving bulk you reduce average costs. Plus drones have to stay in the air, and travel from their base for each package, whereas if a truck has two stops on a street it’s moving less distance.
Train isn't doing point to point.
You're gonna have to actually do the calculations before making claims.
We have Wing in Australia and gotta say getting small tech delivered or medicine by drone is very convenient. It gets lowered instead of dropped.
The drone planes in Africa delivering medical supplies are amazing.
What the fuck?! My cheap ass, $10 AirHog drone that is entirely plastic and foam can fly in 115F temps (as hot as it’s ever been here). What the shit kind of crappy components do Amazon’s delivery drones use?!
They’re using a very dated design because the FAA moves extremely slowly. The size, weight, and wide-scale intended use of them puts the drones in an aircraft category that comes with a lot of paperwork and stipulations.
In this case I would consider that a good thing. The day drone delivery because common will be a very noisy day.
Ew… Bureaucracy.
Flying with a payload requires a lot more lift which goes down as temps go up, plus it could be just the heating of the motors under load that have a certain limit before they tend to fail.
Maybe just a safety precaution for lipo batteries? Given the potential hazard of bursting into flame near or on a house
The primary factor is probably air density. Hot air is less dense than cold air. Humid air is less dense than dry air. High altitude air is less dense than low altitude. Hot, humid, and high, an aircraft’s available payload could be a small fraction of its cold, dry, and sea level capacity.
The difference in air density from 0°C to 45°C is only around 20%. I can't imagine that would be enough to cause problems, assuming the drones have a decent safety margin. I think it's more likely it's a safety precaution for the electronics.
I would like to take this time to thank the slow government FAA for preventing Amazon from clogging up the airspace with crappy drones and preventing a stupid system from taking off.
Aside from all the functional downsides, I’d expect these to go the way of Tesla when hitting a larger scale. Lawsuits and traffic incidents.
I’m curious why the limit is one item. If the drone can carry 5 pounds, why can’t they put 5 pounds of stuff in the box?
Maybe is the delivery part, like you can make it easy to make one drop, but to select one from the individual packages to drop while leaving the other are not as easy.
Maybe the end game is something far more sinister and this is a good way to iron out the bugs.
I mean, the most obvious sinister application for this tech I can think of would be military dones that precisely drop small bombs on targets, but based on the ongoing war in Ukraine, that technology already has been developed, so Amazon of all companies developing it again would be pointless.
EDIT: come to think of it though, while the technology for that military application already exists, having a delivery drone industry might be a benefit to a country in wartime anyway, because the factories to build those drones could be repurposed to make military drones, and the drone fleet itself could be requisitioned, sort of like how navies have often throughout history pressed civilian ships into service in various roles, and with probably minimal modifications be used to gain a sizable fleet of bombing drones very quickly without having to have the military maintain that fleet idle in peacetime. Not sure this actually benefits the company much though, just the country that has a sizable network of these drones and/or factories to build them within it’s control.
Ok sure, there’s limitations. So what percentage of their current deliveries are actually possible with drones? If it’s above 0%, then there’s an opportunity.
Beyond that it’s a finance/ risk/ reward/ regulation issue.
Imagine a van which drives into a suburban housing estate and instead of parking individually at different houses for 5-10 mins each, spends less than 5 mins prepping a set of drones which take off from the roof of the van and return in minutes.
It saves time and fuel. It doesn’t work everywhere, but it doesn’t need to.
In fact it could be the same van. Do deliveries exactly as normal, and use a drone for the last half mile when convenient. It’s not either/or.
The big win, I hear, is the massively rural areas;farms and cabins.
The truck can apparently launch two drones at a time, and they save time and fuel – and don’t present a driving hazard for a panel van which now needs to turn around in a potentially winding driveway. Then the truck moves on to the next stopping point when all drones are back.
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So if Amazon thinks they could do it themselves, and cheaper, that seems like a good reason for them to focus on it.
I still think it’s a gimmick, but them paying to outsource something is a reason to bring it in-house.
Yeah, “small and below 5 lbs” describes like 90+% of Amazon deliveries.
Assuming you live in any moderately-developed area, yeah this is kind of a useless service. But I can see this being very useful for people who need things delivered to remote or otherwise hard-to-access places where a delivery vehicle can't easily get to. Until the cost of maintaining a drone fleet drops substantially, I don't see it being more feasible than the standard delivery van service for most people, not for a while at least.
Non-fixed wing drones don’t have much range.
So in this scenario an Amazon driver is driving near a remote, hard to access location that a truck can’t get to, loading a package onto a drone, and then waiting for it to fly to your hermit shack and back? If your area isn’t moderately developed you’re probably not going to have an Amazon drone hub within range.
Not now, but in theory the tech will continue to evolve. Drones will continue getting better ranges as battery tech improves.
It likely won't be something that reaches widespread adoption any time soon. But in time, I could see this being a very useful service.
We’ve kind of hit a brick wall on the battery front, I wouldn’t expect much improvement in that arena
Solid state batteries could provide another boost in capacity. Other than that, drones don’t need to be quadcopter style only, gliders can reduce battery load significantly (and you could even make a hybrid that can switch to quad mode for precise flight)
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energy.gov/…/fotw-1234-april-18-2022-volumetric-e…
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Hyperloop 2.0.
Delivering something by air is the least efficient way to do so, unless it’s Avdiivka and you deliver a grenade. Yeah, making them now is cheap (and we overproduce these unrecycleable toys), but what the upsides of using them instead of, like, land drones, or human workers, or some rail-system? It’s cool and fancy the first time you order it, but what’s the reason behind it other than our entertainment? Why not to make a delivery guy shoot fireworks once they are here - as enjoyable, and as chinese as these drones.
Why we want to produce this junk in the first place? And aren’t we afraid this shit records close-ups of each property itflies over?
There are places delivery with drones makes a lot of sense and is the best way to do it. It depends what the most important metric is.
In an African country they are delivering medicin and bloodbaths with a drone plane to hospitals that need them for emergencys. That way they only need to have one central stock of these supply’s that can be quickly dispatched. Driving wouldn’t be an option that would take several hours over bad roads. Veritasium did a video about it.
For Amazon deliveries it makes no sense at all.
I agree with you.
I’ve mentioned ukrainian Avdiivka, a battlefield, that isn’t accesible by usual means (and where aerial drones can launch a surprise attack).
The same goes to places with destructed or underdeveloped infrastructure.
Drones can be used in the least accesible places. But they ate tested in places that are already covered by drivers.
bloodbags?
Unless they crash when delivering them
I disagree with you with the efficiency comment. In an ideal scenario, deliver by air can be super efficient. No road obstacles, shortest path trajectories, hell, the sky is 3D!
It’s been tried before: messenger pigeons.
It can be efficient, but the major pro-land point is: what would it do having 0 fuel?
A car would stop, a drone would drop.
It’s an exception and no one would pilot a drone to it’s exhaustion, but either way holding it in the air is a costy investment.
How do robo-taxis or electric bikes for rent deal with the fuel problem? It’s an already solved issue.
However, you do have a point with malfunctions.
Those don’t tend to fall out of the sky when they run out of power.
Understood, but then robotaxis have run over people without the need of flying.
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The first thing you mentioned has nothing to do with fuel, which was OP’s original argument.
As for the second thing, I’ve already said I agreed with OP.
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I’m okay with being wrong. Check my comment history if you’d like in which I happily admit I’m being corrected.
But you didn’t say “depleted” or “out of fuel.” You said “broken.” And that’s different.
Can you admit that you misspoke, then?
E-bikes and e-scooters are better, but I haven’t personally seen an infrastructure to use them unless they are personally owned and recharged at home. Are there stations for them in the US?
Robo-taxis though are their own can of worms. Discussion about their capabilities can take days.
I’m not sure how it works in the U.S., but in Europe there are stations in which users are encouraged to go to and grab a recharged battery (for a discount.) I’m guessing they have employees who do this as well…
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So do gas stations. I wouldn’t say the gas refueling problem isn’t solved because of that.
It will be good for things like medications, small electronics, and basic kitchen supplies.
Best for medications as you said.
I’m not sure I’d want my small electronics dropped onto tarmac from 12 feet up. I don’t care how much bubble wrap you use, that does not sound ideal.
just yeet the knife
It raises the question why a drone can’t deposit it lower than 12 feet. Is this drone theft control?
Probably loss of signal from GPS for one, and there are far more obstacles like power lines that can be hit below 12 feet.
Show me where power lines are below 12 feet, except the insulated residential connections.
Here points and gets zapped dead
Really. Did you just say I couldn’t use the very power lines I was indirectly referencing in order to make yourself right? The very power lines that are closest to the point of delivery - people’s homes?
That’s like saying “there’s no water on land except for the lakes, and you can’t talk about them. “
Might be a stupid idea, but maybe a cable that extends 12ft down and releases the object at ground level or close to, then retracts to the drone. Surely they have thought of this though
It can’t be allowed to fly too close to people, and there’s also concerns with interfere, collisions, animals, etc
Having built commerical drones, it’s mainly two things, obstacles and ground effect.
Noise is absolutely a concern for flying things. The reasons we don’t yet have flying cars is not because they’re too expensive, but because they’re too loud. And this is specifically why the FAA won’t let me commute to work in an ultralight.
The police want Bladerunner spinners so bad they can taste it. And the reason they can’t have them — or more helicopters — is the noise.
That’s not the only reason why flying cars haven’t arrived. Getting a license to fly is about the price of a new car. Bad weather is no flying. Air Traffic Control can’t handle thousands of commuters. Flying cars are pretty big so parking is going to be even more of an issue.
Also, imagine drunk flyers in bad weather.
Ground traffic collisions can also cause collateral damage, but more often than not those are constrained to the roads or their immediate vicinity where not many people live. An aerial collision may happen above residential areas, and even slight fender benders may mean a double crash (…on little Timmy mowing the lawn).
Also, there’s no air bag in the world that can save you in a crash.
Road traffic is easy to direct and regulate with road signs, lanes, lights, painted lines. Good luck herding cats a hundred (hundreds of) yards above ground. It’s not a huge problem with planes because there are not as many of them and they fly at vastly different altitudes. Not the case with personal flying cars.
With ground traffic, you only need two blinkers (or two sets). Some drivers even struggle with using that two properly. Good luck for getting them to use more.
And that’s just the top of my head, I’m sure there are like 2634 other reasons.
They’re working on next generation air traffic control, that is automated and also can handle drones whizzing around next to flying cars, but developing that isn’t fast or cheap or deploy and will need extra equipment on the ground and in the cockpit.
…and that’s still just for the drones.
I can’t imagine an “open to the general public” flying car system that didn’t involve huge amounts of automation, basically self-flying planes. A modern jet liner is effectively self-flying already. And, even though the pilots are rarely required to take direct control over the jets the alcohol limit is 0% and they’re not even allowed to drink within 8 hours of a flight. So, to have a scenario with “drunk flyers in bad weather” you’d need a system with looser rules than current aviation, and less automation that current aviation.
No, but there are parachutes.
Besides, most fiction involving flying cars also involves automated flying cars. Sure, often the “hero” takes direct control of the car and does some crazy maneuvers with it, but in the futures where flying cars exist, autopilots are extremely advanced, and most commuters just hit the button and relax. In addition, if an autopilot did exist, it could become “driver assist” if the human decides to take “direct control”. So, even in a future with frustrated aerial commuters who get “sky rage” and decide to take over flying from the autopilot, a “pilot assist” program could still interpret what they want and limit the danger they pose to themselves or other craft.
The F-16 is almost 50 years old now, and for those 50 years it has been impossible for pilots to fly it with “assists off”. The plane was designed from the start to be dynamically unstable. A pilot simply couldn’t control it without computer assistance. The pilot uses a fly-by-wire system where their inputs are interpreted by computers that do the right thing while still maintaining stability and so-on. A future flying car would pretty obviously be designed the same way.
Yeah, as I was writing that, I was thinking about '80s flying car lanes. It’s like a flow of cars with constant speed. But the ‘drunk flyers’ bit meant that we are humans. You’re also not allowed to drive drunk on the roads. That doesn’t prevent people from still doing that.
Good that you’ve mentioned the F-16, I’m just watching a video on them by Real Engineering on YouTube. I can only recommend the channel, and I’m not even an engineering nerd. Well, not yet.
EDIT: Yeah, a few more minutes into the video I think we both watched the same : ).
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
video
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I haven’t watched a video on the F-16 for ages. I am just an aviation fan and have heard many stories of the F-16 over the years.
I don’t know if it’s mentioned in that video, but the early days of the F-16 were really interesting. It was the first ever fly-by-wire fighter, so there were lots of design issues to work out. The very first versions of the F-16 (maybe still the YF-16 at that stage) used a side-stick that didn’t move at all, it was designed to be pressure-sensitive so pilots could pull lightly to put a little bit of elevator pressure on, or pull hard to go to the elevators’ max deflection. The problem was that pilots never knew when they had reached the limits, so they pushed as hard as they could on the stick. Observers said that you could actually see a twitch in the control surfaces when pilots were at the max, and the twitch was due to being able to see the pulse of the pilot.
After a short time, General Dynamics switched to a side stick that had some range of motion, so that pilots knew when they were at the limits of the controls and didn’t keep pushing.
Yeah, they mentioned it in the video. That whole plane is just an awesome thing. It’s crazy how many modern sounding features they could shove into it so long ago.
As for the stick, AFAIK the pilots couldn’t tell the difference between moving it with 40% or 60% of the force needed, and the feedback loop was delayed.
I guess it’s just the timing then, because these were the main points of the video too.
The amount of energy required to keep something in the air instead of using the ground is also astronomically bigger
Not really. Many planes can get about 20 miles per gallon traveling at about 180 miles per hour. That’s slightly more than a family car, but not astronomically more.
The big differences are that there’s effectively no “traffic” in the air, so once you dial in a cruise speed you stay at that speed for the entire flight. In a car you can get stuck in stop-and-go traffic. There’s also the lack of “rolling resistance” in the air. Even if you’re going a steady speed on a highway your tires are a source of drag. On the other hand, taxing and taking off can burn gallons of fuel, so unless you’re going for a fairly long flight that’s a significant part of the fuel burn. Also, planes go in a straight line, whereas cars have to follow highways. But, the total fuel cost of the trip really includes the trip to/from the airports.
But, fundamentally, the fuel economy of cars and airplanes is pretty similar.
The average person can barely drive without murdering someone. Flying is even more complex than that, the noise is just a small problem compqred to that.
Flying cars would almost certainly not be directly piloted. Even in movies, by the time humanity has flying cars, it has automation to handle those flying cars.
We have flying cars, they are called airplanes or more specifically civil utility aircraft. You know, like the Cessna 172.
Flying vehicles aren’t more mainstream because of the cost. A new plane can cost over half a million dollars while a used plane can easily be over a hundred thousand dollars. And that’s just the cost of the plane.
The other reason is because the rules are more strict and are actually enforced. If a pilot flew their plane like the average person drives their car they would be sitting in jail await trail for attempt murder.
I think you’re missing the cars part of flying cars.
Like, the dream isn’t to drive your car to the airport and get into an airplane. The “car” part of flying cars is about having one in your driveway.
You can get a used Cessna for under $60k:
www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Sing…
www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Sing…
www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Sing…
But, the issue isn’t the up-front cost. Because a plane isn’t a flying car, you have to store it somewhere, and that isn’t cheap. Even just tying it down outdoors can be more than $150/month. Then there are the operating costs, which are much higher than cars: insurance, annual inspections, fuel, maintenance, etc.
The Webster dictionary defines a car as a vehicle that moves on wheels which airplanes definitely are.
You can have your airplane in your driveway (or more commonly your grage). They are called fly-in communities and are more common than you think.
If you’re having to resort to the dictionary definition, you know you’re flailing.
The idea behind a flying car is that everyone could have one in their driveway (not the rare people who live in fly-in communities) and that they can use a combination of driving and flying to get places. That’s what all the flying-car companies are working towards, that’s what people dream of having. Having to live right next to an airport, or having to drive their car to the airport to get their plane isn’t the “flying car” dream.
I’m sure being too loud is an issue, but it’s not the issue. That’s like saying the reason we don’t all have castles is due to municipal zoning laws. Sure, that would make having a castle harder, but it’s not the issue.
Yes, “flying cars” are loud, but that’s a minor issue compared to the other ones. They’re expensive to operate. They’re dangerous both to their passengers and to people on the ground. They’re extremely expensive. The infrastructure isn’t available. They’d require training to operate, etc.
If you could wave a magic wand and make all those other problems disappear, the noise issue would still be a blocker. But, the noise issue isn’t the biggest current blocker.
It’s obvious that autonomous drones are more difficult to create than they seem… I think delivery robots that go on the ground are much safer and more feasible. They can carry heavier packages, they are less dangerous and can travel at less dangerous speeds.
And use less energy since they don’t have to fight gravity
… and they can get robbed or kicked, their sensors sprayed shut… and repair costs a fortune. I don’t think delivery without a human makes much sense, maybe except for a drone that delivers to the Australian outback or a small island at the German coast.
They want desperately to cut delivery cost by taking out the human they have to pay for it to do the work. To do so they spent billions they could have used to pay these people a decent wage and hire more of them. It is dumb.
Don’t those same issues apply to humans though? You can beat up or kill a human delivery driver and take everything in the truck just as easily as you could with a hypothetical robot.
This is very true, but every porch pirate isn’t a moral free tweaker willing to do whatever it takes to score. I think the average down on their luck schmuck would have fewer qualms vandalizing an automated delivery system.
I am from Germany, our crime rate is very, very low. I doubt that many people here would think beating up or even killing a person is “as easy” as doing it to a funny looking delivery robot. Depending where you are from, that might be different though. If you live in a place where people actually see no difference between both and do one as easily as the other, then please stay safe!
Solution: every 17th drone is a decoy carrying a paint bomb to mark anyone who robs it or were just standing around not trying to defend it or defending it effectively enough. Then the Amazon corporate police can swoop in and deal with anyone with paint on them.
There are ways to prevent that, like alarms, notifying the police. These robots will absolutely have ways to be tracked at all times, cameras and all. You could also only use them for low value packages, so the effort is less worth it.
Because there arent enough people to fill delivery jobs? Or is it that they’d want living wages and health insurance?
Do you seriously think we shouldn’t try to automate things as much as possible? Why keep jobs that no one really wants to do?
Because the reason no one wants to do those jobs is because they don’t pay anything and they don’t have any good benefits.
I would bet people don’t want to do those jobs because they’re not really fulfilling or enjoyable to most.
it’s just advertising it’s not really meant to be practical you’re advertising for them good job
I’m not sure how ‘Amazon failed at doing something they promised and ended up with a shitty result’ advertises them. That’s like saying telling people that McDonalds food is full of E. Coli is an advertisement for McDonalds.
they did this for the press. it was never a serious experiment.
I’m pretty sure they didn’t spend all this money to make stupidly unnecessary and difficult drone deliveries in a small town in Texas for the press since, again, that makes them look terrible.
And yet here we are talking about them. Whether or not its thru positive means, its online presence grew with this.
Who is going to be more likely to order from Amazon after reading that their drone delivery service is shit?
That’s how advertising works. You just try to get the name of a company out there as much as possible. It doesn’t have to be gold press to be effective. I mean we are talking about one of the most successful companies in human existence.
I really don’t understand why “Amazon sucks” is a successful advertising strategy for Amazon. Why don’t other companies use that strategy? Where is the Pepsi fucked up and put out a flavor that makes people vomit campaign that works because it gets Pepsi’s name out there?
Bad publicity is still publicity
So it helps a fast food chain if their food turns out to be contaminated and making people sick. That’s your contention.
Find out what happened to Dasani in the UK
Bad publicity can destroy a brand.
Another more successful operation in Rwanda and Ghana is en.wikipedia.org/…/Zipline_(drone_delivery_compan… delivering 1.8kg over 300km and dropped by parachute.
That works for special use cases in rural environments. They use drones for mail delivery on some German islands, for instance. As a mainstream delivery option in urban environments this is just laughably impractical and that has been very obvious from day one.
It’s certainly more useful in locations with insufficient infrastructure.
If I’m honest it really is not at all surprising.
I feel this could actually work fairly well in smaller rural/suburban communities
Maybe if they used bigger craft with larger payload capacity and longer range
And maybe that craft could have wheels instead of rotors to mitigate the rain/wind problems… i think we might be on to something here!
.
not even necessary a bigger capacity I mean it being just able to bring me like a bag of chips or something I forgot for dinner would be great
While people will undoubtedly take the piss, for a number of reasons, it’s less energy expenditure / lower footprint than you getting in your car/truck and going to the store and getting them yourself.
If you factor in all the logistics and systems necessary to run the drone operations and all associated functions, is it likely to be much of a saving?
I could see something like this as useful for medical prescription delivery, but that comes with its own issues and dangers.
Yeah, almost definitely. Even if those systems have a relatively high power draw, they’re still not being powered by a low efficiency ice engine but are being powered by a grid that’s only getting greener. Also factor in the fact that a car+person is minimum about 1100kg that needs to be transported as opposed to the low weight items plus the weight of the drone (can’t be more than 2-3 kg)
Would it be less energy expenditure than a delivery van making multiple stops on its way to deliver you your bag of chips?
The problem is that the bigger and heavier the craft the higher it’s minimum drop height is going to be because it’s more dangerous and needs more clearance.
Obviously it also becomes much more costly to run.
Put a little parachute on the package to soften the fall! /s
That made me laugh… I was imagining a small parachute hooked up to a plasma TV 😲
The UK drone delivery does that
Like a Chinook!?
Haha, now I am picturing a huge Chinook delivering the smallest package of essentially bullshit to my door.
Yeah, I am totally behind that idea.
Or one of the ch54 skycranes delivering a shipping container of amazon returns to the auction winners.
That’s where range issues pop up.
And poachers perhaps
Great, it drops the package from 2 meters.
That’s an improvement over the delivery drivers that yeet my package over my fence
12 feet is more like 3.5-4
Just like plopping a grenade in a foxhole …
Meanwhile in Rwanda:
pharmaceutical-technology.com/…/zipline-ghana-med…
Just because Amazon is doing a terrible job of it, doesn’t mean it’s a job that can’t be done.
Zipline is doing some freaking amazing things!
Yeah. Personal deliveries to your home may never be a practical thing. But, Zipline shows that there is a niche for drone deliveries that’s pretty amazing.
It’s real macgyver stuff. Maybe it doesn’t fit into the cyber aesthetic, but its some pretty fucking amazing stuff. I hope more such applications get found in time.
Shit like that is also a far, far better use of airspace/resources
Ok. That’s incredible. This is more what I saw for the technology’s potential. Not cutting all corners possible to make delivery of disposable goods worse.
If you’re interested there are some great videos about it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOWDNBu9DkU
This sounds like a terrible premise for an episode of the Jetsons
See also: Royal Mail in the UK experimenting with drones. Not doing the last miles delivery to customers, but reinforcing the network with a human still actually shoving the damp bits of paper through the door.
Interesting. That’s dealing with deliveries over water though, where you can’t get a truck to simply distribute stuff efficiently
It carries the mail carrier over the water so they can put the mail in the slot?
Excellent.
I’m just sitting here thinking personal home delivery maybe isn’t the most sustainable thing in the world.
Perhaps we could invest the massive amounts of money that it takes to deliver goods to homes into better transit and post offices that don’t look like crap.
We’ve had mail delivery for what, 200 years? We used to have (and some places still do) have milk and vegetable deliveries. It’s not even that expensive.
I had diaper pickup and laundry service a few years ago, which was amazing. Well worth the $.