Cubic millimetre of brain mapped in spectacular detail (www.nature.com)
from boem@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world on 10 May 2024 06:24
https://lemmy.world/post/15229790

#technology

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Shawdow194@kbin.social on 10 May 2024 11:57 next collapse

Incredible. Very humbling

jaycifer@lemmy.world on 10 May 2024 13:42 next collapse

Humbling? That’s going on in my head. I’m that complicated! Or at least the “hardware” I run on is. I think having a brain that beautifully complex is more empowering than anything! I wonder what new discoveries will stem from this.

BearOfaTime@lemm.ee on 10 May 2024 14:14 collapse

Por que no los dos?

I can see both sides:

Super humbling because nature’s complexity can provide data storage and retrieval capacity several orders or magnitude greater than the best we can do right now.

Also super exciting because look at what every brain on the planet is composed of, and how it functions, in a freakin’ square millimeter!

Crazy stuff. Wild.

moistclump@lemmy.world on 10 May 2024 14:50 next collapse

There’s a whole universe in there eh?

Morphit@feddit.uk on 11 May 2024 13:29 collapse

Let’s see Paul Allen’s brain scan.

huginn@feddit.it on 10 May 2024 12:29 next collapse

This is exactly what I’m talking about when I argue with people who insist that an LLM is super complex and totally is a thinking machine just like us.

It’s nowhere near the complexity of the human brain. We are several orders of magnitude more complex than the largest LLMs, and our complexity changes with each pulse of thought.

The brain is amazing. This is such a cool image.

Khanzarate@lemmy.world on 10 May 2024 15:02 next collapse

I think of LLMs like digital bugs, doing their thing, basically programmed.

They’re just programmed with virtual life experience instead of a traditional programmer.

echodot@feddit.uk on 10 May 2024 19:53 collapse

Back in the early 2000s CERN was able to simulate the brain of a flat worm. Actually simulate the individual neurons firing. A 100% digital representation of a flatworm brain. And it took up an immense amount of processing capacity for a form of life that basic, far more processor intensive than the most advanced AIs we currently have.

Modern AIs don’t bother to simulate brains, they do something completely different. So you really can’t compare them to anything organic.

YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee on 11 May 2024 16:02 next collapse

far more processor intensive than the most advanced AIs we currently have

This is the second comment I’ve seen from you where you confidently say something incorrect. Maybe stop trying to be orator of the objective and learn a little more first.

echodot@feddit.uk on 11 May 2024 16:32 collapse

Citation needed on that comment of yours. Because I know for a fact that what I said is true. Go look it up.

YIj54yALOJxEsY20eU@lemm.ee on 11 May 2024 17:06 collapse

I think the claim that 24 year old technology is more computationally intensive than the ground breaking tech of the modern day needs the citation.

pm_me_your_titties@lemmy.world on 11 May 2024 17:23 collapse

sciencealert.com/scientists-put-worm-brain-in-leg…

2014, not early 2000s (unless you were talking about the century or something).

OpenWorm project, not CERN.

And it was run on Lego Mindstorm. I am no AI expert, but I am fairly certain that it is not “far more processor intensive than the most advanced AIs we currently have”.

Citation needed on that comment of yours. Because I know for a fact that what I said is true. Go look it up.

Maybe you should be a little less sure of your “facts”, and listen to what the world has to teach you. It can be marvelous.

AEsheron@lemmy.world on 10 May 2024 15:47 next collapse

I agree, but it isn’t so clear cut. Where is the cutoff on complexity required? As it stands, both our brains and most complex AI are pretty much black boxes. It’s impossible to say this system we know vanishingly little about is/isn’t dundamentally the same as this system we know vanishingly little about, just on a differentscale. The first AGI will likely still have most people saying the same things about it, “it isn’t complex enough to approach a human brain.” But it doesn’t need to equal a brain to still be intelligent.

huginn@feddit.it on 10 May 2024 19:57 collapse

but it isn’t so clear cut

It’s demonstrably several orders of magnitude less complex. That’s mathematically clear cut.

Where is the cutoff on complexity required?

Philosophical question without an answer - We do know that it’s nowhere near the complexity of the brain.

both our brains and most complex AI are pretty much black boxes.

There are many things we cannot directly interrogate which we can still describe.

It’s impossible to say this system we know vanishingly little about is/isn’t dundamentally the same as this system we know vanishingly little about, just on a differentscale

It’s entirely possible to say that because we know the fundamental structures of each, even if we don’t map the entirety of eithers complexity. We know they’re fundamentally different - Their basic behaviors are fundamentally different. That’s what fundamentals are.

The first AGI will likely still have most people saying the same things about it, “it isn’t complex enough to approach a human brain.”

Speculation but entirely possible. We’re nowhere near that though. There’s nothing even approaching intelligence in LLMs. We’ve never seen emergent behavior or evidence of an id or ego. There’s no ongoing thought processes, no rationality - because that’s not what an LLM is. An LLM is a static model of raw text inputs and the statistical association thereof. Any “knowledge” encoded in an LLM exists entirely in the encoding - It cannot and will not ever generate anything that wasn’t programmed into it.

It’s possible that an LLM might represent a single, tiny, module of AGI in the future. But that module will be no more the AGI itself than you are your cerebellum.

But it doesn’t need to equal a brain to still be intelligent.

First thing I think we agree on.

echodot@feddit.uk on 10 May 2024 19:49 collapse

LLM’S don’t work like the human brain, you are comparing apples to suspension bridges.

The human brain works by the series of interconnected nodes and complex chemical interactions, LLM’s work on multi-dimensional search spaces, their brains exist in 15 billion spatial dimensions. Yours doesn’t, you can’t compare the two and come up with any kind of meaningful comparison. All you can do is challenge it against human level tasks and see how it stacks up. You can’t estimate it from complexity.

CrayonRosary@lemmy.world on 10 May 2024 21:56 next collapse

LLM’s work on multi-dimensional search spaces

You’re missing half of it. The data cube is just for storing and finding weights. Those weights are then loaded into the nodes of a neural network to do the actual work. The neural network was inspired by actual brains.

thechadwick@lemmy.world on 12 May 2024 20:26 collapse

I wonder where it got it’s name from?

CrayonRosary@lemmy.world on 21 May 2024 02:43 collapse

I have no idea. Maybe someone with a larger neural network than mine can figure it out.

AliasAKA@lemmy.world on 11 May 2024 18:30 collapse

I mean you can model a neuronal activation numerically, and in that sense human brains are remarkably similar to hyper dimensional spatial computing devices. They’re arguably higher dimensional since they don’t just integrate over strength of input but physical space and time as well.

Mostly_Harmless_Variant@lemmy.world on 10 May 2024 12:33 next collapse

I thought this was a close up of a fuzzy sweater and was like: "cool ". Read the title. “Oh, fuck, yeah.”

scarilog@lemmy.world on 10 May 2024 14:42 next collapse

The 3D map covers a volume of about one cubic millimetre, one-millionth of a whole brain, and contains roughly 57,000 cells and 150 million synapses — the connections between neurons. It incorporates a colossal 1.4 petabytes of data.

Assuming this means the total data of the map is 1.4 petabytes. Crazy to think that mapping of the entire brain will probably happen within the next century.

LostXOR@fedia.io on 10 May 2024 14:56 collapse

If one millionth of the brain is 1.4 petabytes, the whole brain would take 1.4 zettabytes of storage, roughly 4% of all the digital data on Earth.

enbyecho@lemmy.world on 10 May 2024 15:31 next collapse

Aha! This is why I can’t think straight! Spaghetti!

beefbot@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 11 May 2024 15:47 next collapse

Noam Chomsky said “we don’t know what happens when you cram 10^5 neurons* into a space the size of a basketball” - but what little we know is astonishing & a marvel

*whatever the number is

nicerdicer2@sh.itjust.works on 11 May 2024 16:32 next collapse

There is an eerie resemblence between the smallest neuron and the largest structure in the universe - Galaxy Filament

<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/cf05bacb-7140-442d-9ac4-a6b83dd258db.jpeg">

3ntranced@lemmy.world on 15 May 2024 20:49 collapse

I mean realistically we could just be a manifested thought of some higher being who took too big a toke of some 5-D Weed

neuracnu@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 11 May 2024 18:50 collapse

That cable management is horrendous. Pull them out.

JATtho@lemmy.world on 11 May 2024 19:10 collapse

But it’s the spaghetti cabling that makes it work and highly robust.