autotldr@lemmings.world
on 10 Jun 18:20
nextcollapse
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In a statement released today, the Sweden-based car manufacturer says EX30 vehicles can accidentally throw up a “test screen” on the center monitor, obscuring the normal driving statistics shown there including the speedometer and infotainment features.
"Due to a software error, the infotainment unit screen may enter a test mode during startup of the vehicle.
“Failure to display key information may potentially increase the risk of injury or death to vehicle occupants and other road users.”
When that test screen error occurs, drivers are left in the dark about exactly how fast they’re going, and that could lead to driving that’s too reckless or too cautious, neither of which are great.
The higher-end EX90 actually got delayed by half a year purely to focus on software development, according to Volvo’s public declarations.
That update was a direct response to an incident where a Cruise robo-taxi drove over a pedestrian who was already on the road after having been hit by a different vehicle, instead of just stopping after the collision happened.
The original article contains 430 words, the summary contains 171 words. Saved 60%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Because it obscures the speedometer which could be dangerous and shows why we shouldn’t have screens for everything. They’ve still got regular gauges on airplanes for backup. I don’t see the need to change away from analog gauges.
entropicshart@sh.itjust.works
on 10 Jun 19:28
nextcollapse
Really wish there was more regulation on this. Everything core instruments should not require software to function.
Everything is integrated into the computer network for every function… so if you want an old style analog speedometer how analog do you go? Cable on the gearbox (no software, no bugs, no electronics if you choose a mechanical gauge)? Separate sensor near the transmission (basic analog electronics)? Analog readout from the multiplexed network on an electronic gauge?
Cars are already incredibly complicated and expensive to meet current legal requirements.
I think there’s a reasonable amount of digital that can be incorporated. Going back to my original example, Airbus is fly by wire and very safe. However, there are still analog gauges for the important backup functions, or at least single purpose digital displays such as the ISFD. I don’t think it’s wise to have the multimedia display and speedometer display running off the same device.
I agree, people buy cars like this though, to me modern cars are extremely annoying because of this extreme cost-cutting without any thought put into it. They even lack basic functions like dimming the gauge lights that were standard in the 1980s on cheap cars, or turning off a screen completely and still having the steering wheel controls for the radio… turning off ESP for getting out of slippery places that it gets confused by is also a challenge on a lot of cars.
People have very different priorities from commercial users that need an impeccable safety record and no compromise on reliability, they’re buying a steel box on wheels to get from A to B, preferably in a fashionable shape.
If you’ve ever nearly died because the car decided a reflection was an imminent collision risk and braked hard on the motorway, you know that cars are way worse than Boeing.
Badeendje@lemmy.world
on 11 Jun 09:13
nextcollapse
Extreme cost cutting indeed. Because a second screen with a little cable running to it would cost what… maybe 50 bucks all installed per car.
It’s just weird that this kind of stuff is done.
Next stage just remove all screens and stuff and have the customer use an app on their phone.
car decided a reflection was an imminent collision risk and braked hard on the motorway
I had that almost happen once- it didn’t actually brake, but it did the very loud “omg we’re gonna die” alert, freaked out my wife & kids. Then there’s the fun of fighting with the lane keeping assist when it wants to follow the seams in the concrete rather than the painted lines… Fortunately that “feature” can be disabled.
MeekerThanBeaker@lemmy.world
on 10 Jun 21:07
nextcollapse
It doesn’t help that they also just have the one screen.
They could easily have had a secondary display behind the steering wheel that shows only the important info… but no… they followed Tesla’s model to cut costs with one screen that does most everything.
This was the worst. I was happy to see a compact EV SUV I can actually afford, and I’m all for big screens; but to remove the instrument cluster/gauge and put THAT on the infotainment screen as well is so dumb.
MeekerThanBeaker@lemmy.world
on 10 Jun 22:34
collapse
The least they could’ve done was include a heads-up projection display as an option.
OTA “recall.” Sucks that there was a bug like this, but the headlines try to make these out to be bigger than they are.
Physical or otherwise “bring to the dealer” recalls are bigger news because direct owner action needs to be done, often meaning their car is unavailable for some period of time. OTA just means people will drive their car like normal and it’ll be passively fixed, which is hardly news-worthy.
A bug that causes something (that is legally required to be in a car and function properly) not to function properly or be available is not news?
The fact that they can F- it up remotely and possibly introduced a big that could cause cars to fail inspection seems newsworthy by itself.
The fact they can un-fuck it remotely seems to be the least interesting aspect of this story.
I suggest people stop letting large corporations of the hook if their lack of QA and in this case lack of separation of essential driving systems and the infotainment causes issues.
I agree, and what I said is not trying to exonerate the car companies but is pointing out the rage-bait of the news media.
“Volvo recalls ALL…” (emphasis mine), is meant to incite worry and or rage, while something like this would be truer to the details and relevance to consumers: “Volvo software bug may obscure speedometer. X number of model affected/reported. OTA fix released.”
Badeendje@lemmy.world
on 11 Jun 20:14
nextcollapse
I work on automotive software, and honestly have no issue with issues like this being portrayed as a big deal. I’m sick of how often I’m seeing management push shit software deliveries with the line “We’ll OTA it later, it’s fine for now.”
Screens have been in cars for a very long time at this point, there’s absolutely no reason we should be seeing issues like this aside from half-assed software being shoved out the door because we’ll hopefully fix it later via OTA.
I understand that airliners have separation between the computer systems used for entertainment and life-critical systems. That permits a less costly, lower reliability/testing standard to be used on the entertainment systems.
Unfortunately, current automobiles don’t seem to have that separation:
In a statement released today, the Sweden-based car manufacturer says EX30 vehicles can accidentally throw up a “test screen” on the center monitor, obscuring the normal driving statistics shown there including the speedometer and infotainment features. The exact cause of the bug has yet to be disclosed.
They definitely do. The vast majority of cars (Tesla being a notable exception) run their critical systems on CANbus with AUTOSAR and QNX or VxWorks. That’s why their entertainment system can still crash while the car drives on just fine. That doesn’t mean one can’t obscure the other; on VW group cars, for example, the reversing camera is run by QNX on CANbus but shown on the entertainment screen as an overlay. Occasionally you’ll see QNX starting to show the camera before the entertainment system has had a chance to draw the frame around it.
In older models the speedometer and the tachometer were analogue but new Volvos have them digital so more likely to be affected by software bugs even when the separation exists.
I don’t actually know how the analogue versions work or if they could still be affected by software bugs in the onboard computer. UI wise probably sturdier than digital I suspect.
EX30 is a rebadged Zeekr X which has a normal separate speedometer cluster in front of the driver, Volvo deleted that and put everything on the center screen like a Tesla.
threaded - newest
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In a statement released today, the Sweden-based car manufacturer says EX30 vehicles can accidentally throw up a “test screen” on the center monitor, obscuring the normal driving statistics shown there including the speedometer and infotainment features.
"Due to a software error, the infotainment unit screen may enter a test mode during startup of the vehicle.
“Failure to display key information may potentially increase the risk of injury or death to vehicle occupants and other road users.”
When that test screen error occurs, drivers are left in the dark about exactly how fast they’re going, and that could lead to driving that’s too reckless or too cautious, neither of which are great.
The higher-end EX90 actually got delayed by half a year purely to focus on software development, according to Volvo’s public declarations.
That update was a direct response to an incident where a Cruise robo-taxi drove over a pedestrian who was already on the road after having been hit by a different vehicle, instead of just stopping after the collision happened.
The original article contains 430 words, the summary contains 171 words. Saved 60%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
How is this news? I have recall work done on my Honda almost every time I get an oil change. This is a Volvo software update.
Because it obscures the speedometer which could be dangerous and shows why we shouldn’t have screens for everything. They’ve still got regular gauges on airplanes for backup. I don’t see the need to change away from analog gauges.
Really wish there was more regulation on this. Everything core instruments should not require software to function.
Everything is integrated into the computer network for every function… so if you want an old style analog speedometer how analog do you go? Cable on the gearbox (no software, no bugs, no electronics if you choose a mechanical gauge)? Separate sensor near the transmission (basic analog electronics)? Analog readout from the multiplexed network on an electronic gauge?
Cars are already incredibly complicated and expensive to meet current legal requirements.
I think there’s a reasonable amount of digital that can be incorporated. Going back to my original example, Airbus is fly by wire and very safe. However, there are still analog gauges for the important backup functions, or at least single purpose digital displays such as the ISFD. I don’t think it’s wise to have the multimedia display and speedometer display running off the same device.
I agree, people buy cars like this though, to me modern cars are extremely annoying because of this extreme cost-cutting without any thought put into it. They even lack basic functions like dimming the gauge lights that were standard in the 1980s on cheap cars, or turning off a screen completely and still having the steering wheel controls for the radio… turning off ESP for getting out of slippery places that it gets confused by is also a challenge on a lot of cars.
People have very different priorities from commercial users that need an impeccable safety record and no compromise on reliability, they’re buying a steel box on wheels to get from A to B, preferably in a fashionable shape.
If you’ve ever nearly died because the car decided a reflection was an imminent collision risk and braked hard on the motorway, you know that cars are way worse than Boeing.
Extreme cost cutting indeed. Because a second screen with a little cable running to it would cost what… maybe 50 bucks all installed per car.
It’s just weird that this kind of stuff is done.
Next stage just remove all screens and stuff and have the customer use an app on their phone.
I had that almost happen once- it didn’t actually brake, but it did the very loud “omg we’re gonna die” alert, freaked out my wife & kids. Then there’s the fun of fighting with the lane keeping assist when it wants to follow the seams in the concrete rather than the painted lines… Fortunately that “feature” can be disabled.
It doesn’t help that they also just have the one screen.
They could easily have had a secondary display behind the steering wheel that shows only the important info… but no… they followed Tesla’s model to cut costs with one screen that does most everything.
This was the worst. I was happy to see a compact EV SUV I can actually afford, and I’m all for big screens; but to remove the instrument cluster/gauge and put THAT on the infotainment screen as well is so dumb.
The least they could’ve done was include a heads-up projection display as an option.
I’ll bet it’ll be there in future models.
Are analog gauges more expensive or they just cannot show ads while the driver is idling?
Yes.
OTA “recall.” Sucks that there was a bug like this, but the headlines try to make these out to be bigger than they are.
Physical or otherwise “bring to the dealer” recalls are bigger news because direct owner action needs to be done, often meaning their car is unavailable for some period of time. OTA just means people will drive their car like normal and it’ll be passively fixed, which is hardly news-worthy.
A bug that causes something (that is legally required to be in a car and function properly) not to function properly or be available is not news?
The fact that they can F- it up remotely and possibly introduced a big that could cause cars to fail inspection seems newsworthy by itself.
The fact they can un-fuck it remotely seems to be the least interesting aspect of this story.
I suggest people stop letting large corporations of the hook if their lack of QA and in this case lack of separation of essential driving systems and the infotainment causes issues.
I agree, and what I said is not trying to exonerate the car companies but is pointing out the rage-bait of the news media.
“Volvo recalls ALL…” (emphasis mine), is meant to incite worry and or rage, while something like this would be truer to the details and relevance to consumers: “Volvo software bug may obscure speedometer. X number of model affected/reported. OTA fix released.”
Yeah.
I work on automotive software, and honestly have no issue with issues like this being portrayed as a big deal. I’m sick of how often I’m seeing management push shit software deliveries with the line “We’ll OTA it later, it’s fine for now.”
Screens have been in cars for a very long time at this point, there’s absolutely no reason we should be seeing issues like this aside from half-assed software being shoved out the door because we’ll hopefully fix it later via OTA.
I understand that airliners have separation between the computer systems used for entertainment and life-critical systems. That permits a less costly, lower reliability/testing standard to be used on the entertainment systems.
Unfortunately, current automobiles don’t seem to have that separation:
They definitely do. The vast majority of cars (Tesla being a notable exception) run their critical systems on CANbus with AUTOSAR and QNX or VxWorks. That’s why their entertainment system can still crash while the car drives on just fine. That doesn’t mean one can’t obscure the other; on VW group cars, for example, the reversing camera is run by QNX on CANbus but shown on the entertainment screen as an overlay. Occasionally you’ll see QNX starting to show the camera before the entertainment system has had a chance to draw the frame around it.
In older models the speedometer and the tachometer were analogue but new Volvos have them digital so more likely to be affected by software bugs even when the separation exists.
I don’t actually know how the analogue versions work or if they could still be affected by software bugs in the onboard computer. UI wise probably sturdier than digital I suspect.
EX30 is a rebadged Zeekr X which has a normal separate speedometer cluster in front of the driver, Volvo deleted that and put everything on the center screen like a Tesla.
I remember back when the Citroen C1/Peugeot 107 had just a speedo and the tachometer was an optional extra you could buy if you wanted to.
Entirely removing them all and not even offering them as an option - when you clearly have them available - is just mental.
Your honor, a software bug prevented me from realizing i was speeding.