“Going forward, it is mandatory in North America to install and activate FSD V12.3.1 and take customers on a short test ride before handing over the car,” Musk wrote in an email to staffers on Monday. “Almost no one actually realizes how well (supervised) FSD actually works. I know this will slow down the delivery process, but it is nonetheless a hard requirement.”
I mean, you can require the employee delivering the car to offer to take the customer on a ride. You can require the employee to tell the customer how awesome the service is. But I don’t see how you can make the customer go for a ride if the customer doesn’t want to go for a ride. And, frankly, I kind of suspect that a not-inconsiderable number of new customers just want to go use their new car and aren’t interested in sitting through a sales pitch for some associated service.
CeeBee@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 03:57
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But I don’t see how you can make the customer go for a ride if the customer doesn’t want to go for a ride.
Don’t hand over the keys on the basis that company requirements for liability mitigation were not met.
I know that sounds like a stretch, but Tesla buyers don’t own their cars. Tesla has control over the system (OTA updates), you “have to” bring it to Tesla for repairs and service, and they’ve even tried to control who can resell a cyberteuck.
You’re basically renting a Tesla at full price.
Grippler@feddit.dk
on 26 Mar 2024 05:04
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you “have to” bring it to Tesla for repairs and service
That’s some big ass quotation marks, because it’s not true at all. I’ve only had mine fixed by Tesla when it was a warranty issue. The service I’ve had done (brakes, general checkup and AC) have been done by a local shop without any issues. Had a fender bender that was fixed by a local shop too without any issues.
bitchkat@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 14:54
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I split my service visits between Tesla and a local shop depending on what I need done. When my son destroyed the suspension on a curb, that went to the local shop. When my skid plate ripped, Tesla did that because mobile service is so convenient. I’ve actually found Tesla’s labor costs to be very reasonable.
Their hourly rate is certainly lower than my local shop.
bitchkat@lemmy.world
on 27 Mar 2024 23:31
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I’ve had things like my audio controller replaced and it was like $30 for labor. Same for a lot of other things.
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 06:02
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Tesla has control over the system (OTA updates), you “have to” bring it to Tesla for repairs and service, and they’ve even tried to control who can resell a cyberteuck.
That’s not the case at all. I haven’t needed to do much on my Tesla but the few things that I have needed to do on my 2018 Model 3 have been handled either under warranty by Tesla immediately and without charge, or handled by the same body repair and tire shops I took my Honda to before.
As for the Cybertruck resale limits, other manufacturers do the exact same thing for new models at initial launch or even as part of their regular sales agreements. That includes traditionally more expensive brands like Ferrari and Lamborghini, as well as brands like Ford when introducing new high end models like the GT. This isn’t something weird in the industry at all for new limited production models.
mister_monster@monero.town
on 26 Mar 2024 05:49
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Plenty of really expensive cars like Bugattis, plenty of airplanes and other potentially dangerous machines require a purchaser to be taught how to use them before they can take delivery. Many even require certification. Refusing to learn how to safely operate something is perfectly reasonable grounds for a vendor, dealer or manufacturer to refuse delivery.
Tja@programming.dev
on 26 Mar 2024 06:00
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How about refusing to learn something you haven’t purchased? Like FSD…
dragontamer@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 14:18
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This isn’t about “proper operation” of a car though. Every car buyer has a drivers license after all.
This is about Elon Musk trying to sell a $12,000+ upcharge onto customers (or a monthly payment of $200/month).
mister_monster@monero.town
on 26 Mar 2024 16:39
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Well no, because self driving/autopilot is not something people have learned to use yet. You light think “the car drives itself, what’s there to learn?” and recent mishaps with autopilot will answer your question. This is probably a requirement to protect Tesla from liability when a driver misuses autopilot.
dragontamer@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 17:00
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FSD is the $12,000 upgrade package.
This isn’t the “free” Autopilot package included in every Tesla. This is literally an upselling maneuver for Tesla. If this were a “learning” kind of thing coming from Tesla / Elon, it’d only apply to people who were interested in the $12,000 FSD package, not the entire damn customer base.
This is dealership-level bullshit. Actually, its far worse than any dealership bullshit I’ve ever seen. Its not like Hummer sales-reps are going to force me to sit through a “Crab Walk” demo or Toyota sales reps are going to have me sit through Toyota-features when I’m shopping with them. There’s a bit of upselling going on in any car buying process, but $12,000+ upselling maneuvers (like FSD advertisement) is well into the bullshit territory.
Easy. You write it into the sales agreement. Sales agreements are contracts where both parties agree to do certain things in exchange for other things.
While most agreements are pretty simple, you give up money in exchange for goods, or services, it’s also easy to write “You will pay the purchase price ($…) to Tesla and also sit through our fucking FSD demo, in exchange, Tesla will deliver 1 ugly-ass car shaped like a fat roller skate,” or similar.
dragontamer@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 14:16
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But the two people most important to the contract are the salesguy and the customer.
The sales guy can say “Hey, sign here stating I gave you a FSD demo”, and the customer says “Wait, why??”, and the sales guy says : “If you don’t sign that, I’m forced to take you out on a 5 minute demo”, then the customer signs it.
So they’d just easily avoid the whole endeavor anyway.
fluxion@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 03:49
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Patches@sh.itjust.works
on 26 Mar 2024 14:00
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The number one thing Musk can do to prop up falling Tesla Stock is to remove himself from Tesla. He’s too volatile these days.
dragontamer@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 14:15
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TSLA has a PE Ratio of 42. Toyota has a PE Ratio of 11.
If Tesla becomes a “normal car company”, we’re looking at 75% declines in the stock price. The only reason why its being propped up at all is because of Elon Musk’s cult of personality.
Yeah, Elon Musk has successfully tied himself to the company like a suicide pact. The Board is also largely under Elon Musk’s control.
He gets paid proportionally to the stock value, so it’s completely and totally about perception to him. Actual reality… who cares!
fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 13:47
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Tesla: people really like that you can just order a car online and not have to deal with slimey sales tactics. What can we do to fuck even that up too?
nxdefiant@startrek.website
on 26 Mar 2024 14:23
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Since not every car they sell is capable of it, I’m guessing this means to demo it for everyone who ordered it (or ordered a car capable of it, since the subscription can only be enabled on such cars).
The delivery process takes like a handful of minutes, and everyone who orders one still has to go through it, so if they’re mandating a drive, I guess that roughly doubled the delivery process time.
bitchkat@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 14:49
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Its very few cars that are not FSD capable, mostly older S and X. There are some older model 3’s (pre spring 2019) with hardware version 2 that I think can’t run modern FSD.
falconeray@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 17:12
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All the Model 3s with v2 were offered a free upgrade, I suppose there could be some people that never bothered and then sold their car, but if it’s in Tesla’s resale inventory I would expect them to have done the upgrade.
My 2018 Model 3 got the upgrade and I use FSD daily, though it still has the older revision of the display (just slightly less responsive in web browsing and games).
bitchkat@lemmy.world
on 27 Mar 2024 23:29
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You only got the V2 to V3 upgrade if you bought FSD. I don’t think they blanket upgraded everyone with V2 or V2.5 hardware.
falconeray@lemmy.world
on 27 Mar 2024 23:58
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Ah, that makes sense. Looking at the FAQ page, it appears anyone who pays for the non subscription FSD gets the upgrade free, subscribers have to pay $1,000 for installation.
Same page says there is a camera upgrade available for some s/x/early 3s also restricted to purchasers of FSD.
bitchkat@lemmy.world
on 28 Mar 2024 00:05
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And that is fair. Otherwise someone could subscribe to FSD, get their hardware upgrade and then cancel. Early S and maybe X used a completely different system for Autopilot developed by MobileEye. Tesla hates paying licenses so they drop Mobile Eye and started developing their in house AP/FSD. The MobileEye patents are why it took for ever to get a system that can read speed limit signs. But Mobile Eye was never released on Model 3 so there must have been some different cameras in use. Hardware 4 has more cameras and higher def but I haven’t heard that they are upgrading hardware 3 cars. The scale of that is way larger than it was back in 2019.
nxdefiant@startrek.website
on 26 Mar 2024 19:06
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Ah, I wasn’t aware that new ones came “FSD Capable” by default.
bitchkat@lemmy.world
on 27 Mar 2024 23:30
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Its hard for them to sell you FSD at $12k (or $199/mo) if the hardware can’t support it.
JustZ@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 14:15
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I’ve been car shopping lately and the number of cheap used Tesla’s is astounding. I see more in dealer inventories than I’ve ever seen on the road.
werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
on 26 Mar 2024 14:39
nextcollapse
I’ve seen this one before! Captain America lives out his days with the love of his life.
threaded - newest
FSD:
FullFake Self Drivingeither that or Full Self Driving, as In any event, I already drive myself in any car.
I mean, you can require the employee delivering the car to offer to take the customer on a ride. You can require the employee to tell the customer how awesome the service is. But I don’t see how you can make the customer go for a ride if the customer doesn’t want to go for a ride. And, frankly, I kind of suspect that a not-inconsiderable number of new customers just want to go use their new car and aren’t interested in sitting through a sales pitch for some associated service.
Don’t hand over the keys on the basis that company requirements for liability mitigation were not met.
I know that sounds like a stretch, but Tesla buyers don’t own their cars. Tesla has control over the system (OTA updates), you “have to” bring it to Tesla for repairs and service, and they’ve even tried to control who can resell a cyberteuck.
You’re basically renting a Tesla at full price.
That’s some big ass quotation marks, because it’s not true at all. I’ve only had mine fixed by Tesla when it was a warranty issue. The service I’ve had done (brakes, general checkup and AC) have been done by a local shop without any issues. Had a fender bender that was fixed by a local shop too without any issues.
I split my service visits between Tesla and a local shop depending on what I need done. When my son destroyed the suspension on a curb, that went to the local shop. When my skid plate ripped, Tesla did that because mobile service is so convenient. I’ve actually found Tesla’s labor costs to be very reasonable.
Their hourly rate is certainly lower than my local shop.
I’ve had things like my audio controller replaced and it was like $30 for labor. Same for a lot of other things.
That’s not the case at all. I haven’t needed to do much on my Tesla but the few things that I have needed to do on my 2018 Model 3 have been handled either under warranty by Tesla immediately and without charge, or handled by the same body repair and tire shops I took my Honda to before.
As for the Cybertruck resale limits, other manufacturers do the exact same thing for new models at initial launch or even as part of their regular sales agreements. That includes traditionally more expensive brands like Ferrari and Lamborghini, as well as brands like Ford when introducing new high end models like the GT. This isn’t something weird in the industry at all for new limited production models.
Plenty of really expensive cars like Bugattis, plenty of airplanes and other potentially dangerous machines require a purchaser to be taught how to use them before they can take delivery. Many even require certification. Refusing to learn how to safely operate something is perfectly reasonable grounds for a vendor, dealer or manufacturer to refuse delivery.
How about refusing to learn something you haven’t purchased? Like FSD…
This isn’t about “proper operation” of a car though. Every car buyer has a drivers license after all.
This is about Elon Musk trying to sell a $12,000+ upcharge onto customers (or a monthly payment of $200/month).
Well no, because self driving/autopilot is not something people have learned to use yet. You light think “the car drives itself, what’s there to learn?” and recent mishaps with autopilot will answer your question. This is probably a requirement to protect Tesla from liability when a driver misuses autopilot.
FSD is the $12,000 upgrade package.
This isn’t the “free” Autopilot package included in every Tesla. This is literally an upselling maneuver for Tesla. If this were a “learning” kind of thing coming from Tesla / Elon, it’d only apply to people who were interested in the $12,000 FSD package, not the entire damn customer base.
This is dealership-level bullshit. Actually, its far worse than any dealership bullshit I’ve ever seen. Its not like Hummer sales-reps are going to force me to sit through a “Crab Walk” demo or Toyota sales reps are going to have me sit through Toyota-features when I’m shopping with them. There’s a bit of upselling going on in any car buying process, but $12,000+ upselling maneuvers (like FSD advertisement) is well into the bullshit territory.
Easy. You write it into the sales agreement. Sales agreements are contracts where both parties agree to do certain things in exchange for other things.
While most agreements are pretty simple, you give up money in exchange for goods, or services, it’s also easy to write “You will pay the purchase price ($…) to Tesla and also sit through our fucking FSD demo, in exchange, Tesla will deliver 1 ugly-ass car shaped like a fat roller skate,” or similar.
But the two people most important to the contract are the salesguy and the customer.
The sales guy can say “Hey, sign here stating I gave you a FSD demo”, and the customer says “Wait, why??”, and the sales guy says : “If you don’t sign that, I’m forced to take you out on a 5 minute demo”, then the customer signs it.
So they’d just easily avoid the whole endeavor anyway.
Running low on beta testers?
.
The number one thing Musk can do to prop up falling Tesla Stock is to remove himself from Tesla. He’s too volatile these days.
TSLA has a PE Ratio of 42. Toyota has a PE Ratio of 11.
If Tesla becomes a “normal car company”, we’re looking at 75% declines in the stock price. The only reason why its being propped up at all is because of Elon Musk’s cult of personality.
Yeah, Elon Musk has successfully tied himself to the company like a suicide pact. The Board is also largely under Elon Musk’s control.
He gets paid proportionally to the stock value, so it’s completely and totally about perception to him. Actual reality… who cares!
Tesla: people really like that you can just order a car online and not have to deal with slimey sales tactics. What can we do to fuck even that up too?
Since not every car they sell is capable of it, I’m guessing this means to demo it for everyone who ordered it (or ordered a car capable of it, since the subscription can only be enabled on such cars).
The delivery process takes like a handful of minutes, and everyone who orders one still has to go through it, so if they’re mandating a drive, I guess that roughly doubled the delivery process time.
Its very few cars that are not FSD capable, mostly older S and X. There are some older model 3’s (pre spring 2019) with hardware version 2 that I think can’t run modern FSD.
All the Model 3s with v2 were offered a free upgrade, I suppose there could be some people that never bothered and then sold their car, but if it’s in Tesla’s resale inventory I would expect them to have done the upgrade.
My 2018 Model 3 got the upgrade and I use FSD daily, though it still has the older revision of the display (just slightly less responsive in web browsing and games).
You only got the V2 to V3 upgrade if you bought FSD. I don’t think they blanket upgraded everyone with V2 or V2.5 hardware.
Ah, that makes sense. Looking at the FAQ page, it appears anyone who pays for the non subscription FSD gets the upgrade free, subscribers have to pay $1,000 for installation.
Same page says there is a camera upgrade available for some s/x/early 3s also restricted to purchasers of FSD.
And that is fair. Otherwise someone could subscribe to FSD, get their hardware upgrade and then cancel. Early S and maybe X used a completely different system for Autopilot developed by MobileEye. Tesla hates paying licenses so they drop Mobile Eye and started developing their in house AP/FSD. The MobileEye patents are why it took for ever to get a system that can read speed limit signs. But Mobile Eye was never released on Model 3 so there must have been some different cameras in use. Hardware 4 has more cameras and higher def but I haven’t heard that they are upgrading hardware 3 cars. The scale of that is way larger than it was back in 2019.
Ah, I wasn’t aware that new ones came “FSD Capable” by default.
Its hard for them to sell you FSD at $12k (or $199/mo) if the hardware can’t support it.
I’ve been car shopping lately and the number of cheap used Tesla’s is astounding. I see more in dealer inventories than I’ve ever seen on the road.
I’ve seen this one before! Captain America lives out his days with the love of his life.
Desperation. Stock correction incoming. Elon needs to seperate himself from the brand for it to succeed.